Discover How Obagi Sets the Standard for Science-Backed Skincare

0:00Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy. This is your host Becca and I'm really really excited about Brand VR here today. I think a lot of you have heard of them. They've been around for a long time, making amazing products. I know quite a few people, you know, in my peer group that have at least one or two products by the line. So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the chief marketing officer of Obagi, Justin Giuseppe, right? Giuseppe, that's great. You did a great job. Great. Well, welcome, Justin. I'm excited to chat with you and learn from you today. I'm thrilled to be here.

0:31I would love to get started if you could tell us a little bit about yourself, you know, and your background and what got you involved with Obagi and maybe get us started. Yeah. So, you know, I've been a beauty junkie, so to speak, forever. You know, I've always been super hair, skin, cosmetics involved. You know, I was like tinkering around in my grandmother's bathroom at six. So this is absolutely, you know, the category I love. You know, I love science-backed categories and I've worked in both skin and hair color, which are chemistry based. And it's always been important to me. So I started my beauty career at a beauty giant we also all know named L 'Oreal.

1:14And I worked across several brands and divisions and countries. I also have worked in body care at Henkel, which was very skin focused and all about skin health, all the way from, you know, antibacterial soaps into moisturizing body washes. And then I had the good fortune of meeting our founders of Waldencast, who had recently fired Obagi, Hinn Septi and Michel Grousset. Oh, I love him. I love him. Everyone does. Yeah. Yes. And, you know, for lack of any other way of saying it, when I met her, we had such incredible chemistry, work chemistry, of course. And I was so impressed by their mission and so impressed by their objectives of where they wanted to take the Obagi brand that I essentially signed on immediately.

2:03So, you know, I've had the good fortune of being here since July of 2023 and have seen where, you know, every day working on how can we continue to transform this incredible brand that has some incredible fundamentals. And how do we just bring it forward for today's physicians, estheticians, plastic surgeons and consumers? Yeah, no, I mean, Obashi is so interesting to me because it's a brand that I think tells the tale of like where the skincare industry has progressed to over the years. You know, it's been a while and I love to see brands that have been in the space long before the TikTokers of the world caught on to skincare.

2:46and you know what I mean like before it became viral because honestly skincare has been you know for me it was a new thing in my life in my adulthood it wasn't really a thing I did when I was younger and I wish I had because you know there's so many benefits but Obagi is a brand to me that stands out because of that you know because you guys have been around you've been providing real options for such a long time so when it comes to the innovation and the growing technology in the space I mean it must be very cool from your viewpoint to watch everything you know, evolve and, and kind of, you know, incorporate it into what you guys are doing.

3:20So we're fast. Absolutely. You know, Obagi was founded by a doctor, of course, as you know, Dr. Obagi, and it was founded in product innovation, you know, and in needing to answer real skin concerns and issues for doctors, help them make it easy so that they could easily prescribe solutions to their clients and to be extremely efficacious, you know, so to work quickly and to show results. And I think, you know, before I joined Obagi, I'm going to admit that I purchased my skincare in, you know, outside retail. And you see a lot of promises from those brands, some of which are lovely, by the way, not disparaging them in any way.

4:02But I never felt you saw a ton of results, real results. And one of the things we really hold ourselves to, which is what we're rooted in, is seeing real results and quickly. And that's how we were founded. So I love that when you say you're surpassing the trends and you've always been there in skincare before TikTok was even invented, is important to us because it's to say, we're happy to tell people about us on TikTok, But what they need to know is that we're a brand that really works, really, really works, and we can prove it. And we've always been about that. And we continue to be about that.

4:42And when we develop products, we hold ourselves to a really, really high standard of how fast we can see results, how well we can see results, can we prove those results with clinicals, and thinking about with doctors in mind, you know, how will they judge us on these results? and then then so we say to ourselves should we launch this product or not yeah yeah exactly I mean that makes sense because honestly I mean from what my understanding is and you know please correct me if I'm wrong is that I think when a brand's been around you know and has seen the in and out of the trend and then seen how this market is yeah it's evolving but we always come back to the tried and the trues right when it comes to ingredients when it comes to like the results that we expect or consumers expect it always boils down to I think some of the basics and I think Obagi for me when I look at the brand I think of the essentials that you need in your skincare routine you know it's like everyone's loves focusing on that new ingredient or that new like that wave you know sometimes people are like seven skin method you know 10 step method whatever and that's going to come and go but at the end of the day you still need great hydrating products you still need really great cleansers really great moisturizers and almost as I love what you said earlier about how because you guys are doctor and you know MD founded you have a baseline and that is like an almost an adjunct to what we would get from our dermatologist so if we go to a dermatologist and get you know antibiotics prescribed to us for acne we then go towards you know skincare that's been around and tried and true to provide adjunct therapies to what we're experiencing.

6:22So that's where I find it to be really, really, very fascinating. You know, it's truly like in the cosmeceuticals realm where it's like working with the dermatology and the pharma grade stuff that we're using, you know, so. Yeah, I'd say two things about that. So first is that it's how we source ideas, right? So, you know, we talk to our professional community, including our chief medical director, Dr. Susan Obagi, who is a long time, very well respected dermatologist in Pittsburgh at UPMC about what they're seeing in practice, what needs they have, what are changes in, you know, people's skin or what they're asking for.

7:01And then we use those insights to develop products, right? So that's the first thing is that our insights are coming from, you know, office, professional offices, whether that be derms or estheticians or plastic surgeons, and what they're seeing and how we can help support to your point with the right products that individuals can either be used, you know, can use in office or at home to support even, you know, any prescription products. I think the other piece of what you said is very important to us, which is what we have dubbed trust over trends. So, you know, I think you and I, you know, as lovers and followers of beauty and skincare, you see a ton of trending ingredients all the time, you know, and this is for sure true in social.

7:49It's for sure true with my, you know, what do they call them? Sephora tween, who's 12 years old. It's, this is, this is the case and an ingredient will get super popular in social. And it's not to say that we ignore that, but we are really stringent about the fact that we won't just use an ingredient because it is trending. We will only use an ingredient if we are sure that it's going to do something. So there are plenty that we think are great and have used and formulated with that people talk quite a lot about. And then there are others that we'll never touch because we don't feel that they can be, their performance can be proven in clinicals or we feel that they're a fad, you know?

8:30So that's kind of a cornerstone premise of how we even think about Obagi. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, I think that at the end of the day, we're living in a time now where everybody wants to see the data. You know, it's all coming down to, I think for a long time, the beauty industry was kind of run by this qualitative analysis you know done by editors and and make consumers and and everybody like that but now we've come into the realm of you know dermatologists are seeking out you know doctors such as myself are are wanting to know more you know and so this has really driven this data-driven you know data-driven approach to how as consumers are shopping for skincare and so when I look at brands that have been around for a long time I get excited because now they have the resources like obashi you guys have the resources to do your clinical trials you know what i mean you have the resources to go and give us the data and at the end of the day that to me as a consumer means a lot more than okay yeah you know there might be a cute brand that comes out and i support them i support entrepreneurs but when it comes to skin health is first you know what i mean that's the bottom line whether we want to admit that or not as consumers at the end of the day you might have a beautiful product that looks pretty on your skin when you put it on you know but if it's not giving you results you're essentially messing with an organ at the end of the day so yeah you have to keep that in mind and i think consumers i think i mean i want to believe that we were rounding that corner where we're saying okay enough of the fluff product give us the data you know what i mean tell us where the good stuff is the results you know and so that's where you stand out to me you know yeah and i think sticking to that forever and ever is the important and continuing to stick to that is what's so important.

10:14And we're not going to change that element of it. You know, the science matters for us. And yes, we absolutely invest heavily in clinicals. It is a big part of our budget every year. And in fact, we have, you know, people solely responsible for that, who this is their whole life's work is, you know, helping us set up clinicals. And, you know, what's important is also about not only that we do clinicals, but also what's involved in those clinicals. So, you know, another important piece of our clinicals is testing on various skin types. So, you know, we really try to set up a diverse study whenever we're doing our clinicals to make sure not only are our products safe and efficacious on the various Fitzpatrick skin types, but also that they're beneficial to, right?

11:04Because, you know, the home country of Obagi is here in the US, which is probably the most diverse country in the world. But we also run a global business, you know, with businesses in Asia, and in the Middle East and in Europe, and everyone's skin is different. So we need to also be proving that our products are safe and beneficial to all skin types. Absolutely. I think also, in addition to just the fundamentals of skincare, or some of the products that really stand out to me in your collection, or for example, like your brown brow serum is like you know renowned for being so good and efficacious like say those kind of products I think people love using them but when my my thing is with consumers you have to go to brands that can actually formulate that stuff correctly because it's it's has the potential of touching mucous membranes and I think that's a conversation that nobody wants to have because we're like okay well it's a brow serum or it's an eyelash serum it's you know it must be safe it's fine but no it's not you have to have a lot of r &d behind stuff like that and so you do have those kind of products in your lineup but the differentiating factor then becomes well has this brand you know invested really in this product that is kind of you know blurring that line between like pharmaceutical grade and then otc grade right so that's where i think obagi is very unique in that way it's like you guys have like i said you have the resources you have the data and your products work because of that you know because you really test them so yeah if you'd like if you need a another job you know you could certainly join the marketing team honestly i know i sound like i sound like your biggest fan but i really believe in what you guys are doing because today i interview a lot of brands and i mean there's nothing i love all the brands i interview but i think there's a lot to be said when you have years and years you know decades of experience under your belt and there's just nothing that can replace that and you know with in the world and you know this you know just in the world we live in now consumers are just like wildly looking for like frantically looking for options you know that are therapeutic and what i hear time and time again through emails through comments whatever it might be is ekta nothing's working you know what i mean like nothing's working i don't know what to do with my skin it's never it never gets better i always have the same lines the same wrinkles and I don't know what to say back to these people.

13:30You know what I mean? Because at the end of the day, people are using the same ingredients over and over again and the innovation is just lacking. So that's why I am raping. You know what I mean? Because I think it's important to draw that attention to brands that have that experience. Like, no, no, no, don't go over there. Come back over here. You know, like there's a lot of clinical data here. So that's what I mean, you know, with all the - Yeah, yeah. Stay away from the shiny objects and go with the facts, you know, which is absolutely our mission. So, you know, you're dead on. This is how we approach everything.

14:06And I love to hear that you're so bought into it. And, you know, certainly happy you're a fan and that I could spend some time today. Absolutely. No, I would love to talk to you a little bit about your professional side of things, because I know that you work with dermatologists. And there's a lot of options here also for derms to consider. I'm a huge advocate for that. Personally, you know, I think that medicine is at this juncture now where we have to integrate, you know, with the OTC space and like provide real options for patients. And so I'd love for you to speak a little bit towards that professional side of the brand and like how you work with derms and professionals.

14:42Yeah. So they're sort of our main obsession, if you will. You know, the reason I get up in the morning every day is to service professionals, whether that be dermatologists, plastic surgeons, other doctors, or estheticians, which the med spa has also seen a phenomenal rise in this country. So they're the reason we get up in the morning to help them and in their practices because of all the things we've talked about. So we work with them in a lot of different ways. So obviously, as I said, we work with them to garner insights, to help develop products, of course, you know, so starting sort of at the beginning of the funnel, you know, what do they even need for us to provide them with?

15:28And then once we are, we have a product, we'll work together with them on developing protocols. So what, you know, what are the best practices on how you can use our products, perhaps together with, you know, some services in their practices, you know, which has only grown and how can our products support their services in practice. So a great example of this is we had launched a barrier repair moisturizer called Rebalance, which was developed specifically to combat irritation post services in practice. So that might be you had It's a microneedling or a peel or something that just might irritate your skin.

16:13Now, because it repairs the barrier, it also keeps your skin healthy on a day-to-day basis. You know, if you even have a sunburn, it's great. But the point was that we were developing this product with the idea in mind that it would support the activities that were happening in practice. Of course, we also have an incredible team of dedicated sales reps that service this arm of our business. And so, you know, they're also talking intensively, educating, working with developing these practices and also come back with more ideas than I can execute, you know, in any given year about how to help these practices and what we can do to sort of make all the business better and all boats to rise, so to speak.

17:00So, you know, it's definitely our number one preoccupation. It's where we were born and where we continue to focus. So even in an omni-channel world, we do have dedicated products that we will sell only in professional practices, some of which are, but of course, that's permissible in those offices. And obviously in other channels, we won't sell things like that. So they're our focus. They're the reason we get up in the morning and we're constantly in contact with them to try and grow their businesses and figure out what they need to support their businesses better. That's really cool. I like that.

17:40And I think that, you know, it's interesting because right now, I mean, I know that post procedure skincare is really on the up and up, you know, in terms of like just an example of how dermatology is really merging with this OTC kind of thing, you know? And so like, what are your thoughts around that? But I mean, even from a marketing angle, I mean, do you think that there's a lot of value here, you know, for consumers to consider things like post-procedure skincare? Or do you think it's not really worth it? I know it is worth it. And I know even pre-procedure. So, you know, our number one franchise is Newderm, which I'm sure you know a lot about because you seem to know a ton about us.

18:21And Newderm was conceived to do just that. So we have many plastics, for example, who will recommend to start their protocol of new derm before a facelift and then continue it after a facelift. And the reason for that is obviously if you're going to invest money in a procedure, you want to first have the canvas of skin be as good as it can be before you start. And then after, you don't want to neglect that. You know, you've just invested time, money, resources in yourself in something that's, you know, making you feel great. And so you can't neglect, you know, keeping your skin in its best shape.

19:02So this is absolutely of paramount importance. And I know it to be true. And some of our best partner doctors absolutely follow this type of protocol of before and after procedures. Wow, that's really cool. I like that because, you know, there's, I've just been curious because there's not a lot of brands that I think that are doing post-procedure care, you know, so that's why I was asking because it's fascinating to me, you know, I think as for the medical side, it makes complete sense, you know, logically the science adds up, but I think when I see the title post-procedure care, I think a lot of times you, people want to fit into that category, but a lot more goes into it than just, you know, creating a cleanser or something.

19:47It's really about prep, like you said, you know, balancing the skin and making sure you have a canvas before you're going in or something, you know? Yeah. I mean, even if you, let's say you wanted a peel, you know, if, if your skin barrier is in terrible shape before the peel, it's going to be worse after, right? So it's important that you sort of get your skin to a place before any procedure and then afterwards take care of it, you know, like a gentle baby. So I think it's, it's definitely a huge topic in the professional world. And I think, you know, some of our providers are really enthusiastic about this topic.

20:26And it's definitely a focus for us on how we can provide solutions before and after procedures, because it's, it's an important part of making skin look great and our practices revenue. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think you have a lot of products like that. Like, for example, another one that I really love is like you have a product for the neck and decollete area. It's like it's a roller at the top of the piece that's at the top. For everyone listening, it rolls so you can just roll it on your neck. And it's so good. Like, I love this product because I use it a lot at night. And so, like, when you wake up, you just feel like you've taken care of all parts of your, you know, normal.

21:06Yeah, I really like this product a lot. And I mean, that just kind of proves like, you know, the innovation that's behind the brand is like, there's a lot of really unique products, you know, in the line. It's not just about like the cleanser, the toner. Yeah, those are really great. But like the fact that you guys have the capacity to have these a wide range, you know, that really fits into everyone's routine somehow. That's very fascinating. Yeah. And, you know, Neckadack, that's also one of my favorites. And I can tell you, I gave it to a friend and she told me my neck looks 29 again. But, you know, it's also because, you know, we, especially now, we spend a lot of time looking at ourselves on a screen.

21:43So we're pretty focused on our faces. But, you know, if you want to combat signs of aging, you also need to focus on your neck, right? Because it's a very delicate skin and it will show aging, you know, pretty fast. and people tend to ignore it. So that was the birth of that product, which has a lot of incredible ingredients in it. And that roller is to facilitate getting it on your skin easily, but it also does use the practice of massage, which does help also stimulate, you know, sort of production of good ingredients in your skin as well. So, you know, there was a lot of thought put into that product and thinking about why would you even pay attention to your neck?

22:26And then fun fact, you know, some of my team use that product actually over their face and neck. So I didn't tell you to do that, but some people on my team, because of course they're the ultimate experimenters and try everything, how we don't write the directions, but they do that as well. So, you know, one day I'd be happy to introduce you to my full team and I'm sure they'd tell you all of their little secrets about how they use and misuse our line. I love that. I'm always up for, you know, tips and tricks because obviously I love skincare. So, yeah. Yeah. But that is also one of my favorites.

22:58Yeah, it's great. It's a great product. You know, and honestly, here's the thing. You know, I'm all for it. There's a lot of cool stuff on the market. You know, I know that Gua Sha became huge, you know, the last two, three, five years, whatever it's been. And I love Gua Sha. But some of the things I see on social media where people are literally bruising their skin because they're trying to, like, gain the benefits of something as simple as, like, an actual massaging effect, you know, of your facial muscles or neck or whatever. It's a little extreme, guys. Like, I'm just going to say that out loud.

23:30So a product like this, I think, fits a lot more simply into our routines than just going ham, you know, with the gua sha and just bruising yourself to death. Like, it just seems a little extreme to me when I see it. I guess it's personal preference. But for sure, you know, for those gua sha lovers, maybe give this product a try and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how well it works and you get the massage element. Yeah, and also it's a very, you know, I think the neck area, like there's a lot of talk around, you know, oh, your neck skin is a lot different than, you know, your facial skin and we have to take care.

24:05You know, there's a lot of conversation around your body, you know what I mean? And like the different needs of the different skin types. So this formulation, I really like it because it's like a gel. So like when it sits on your skin, it's almost soothing. Like it soothes your skin. I don't know how to describe it. Like when you wake up, it's just very soft, very like rejuvenated, hydrated, plump, but it's not, I don't know. It just makes sense to use it on your neck. I don't know how else to really phrase that. Yeah. Yeah. And that format was done purposefully. And yes, it definitely is meant to not only address wrinkles and sagging, but also brighten those areas, you know, because it's another thing.

24:48I think, you know, your neck and dayclate have probably gotten a lot of sun over time. And so this also helps brighten those areas from any sun damage that might be there. No, that's really cool. I want to actually ask you kind of a general question because I'm very curious about it. I know that a lot of brands right now are kind of moving to the east, you know, for their innovation. They're looking to the east and there's a lot of things going on, I think, in Asia, especially you know with skincare innovation with packaging innovation how do you feel about that you know for a marketing stance has Obagi kind of consulted you know eastern well you know just the eastern world and how they're doing skincare because you know how big it is over there so yeah I mean so I would say absolutely inspiration comes from all places yeah you can ignore it and we run a global business you know we have a pretty nice business in southeast Asia and in China.

25:45And, you know, obviously we're constantly in contact with those teams and, you know, the innovation side of our business, the individuals who support and create innovation, visit those markets to understand them. So obviously, yes, you know, we are inspired by it. We do, you know, work with doctors in those regions to also understand what's trending there. And you're right that it's not just formulas and ingredients, it's also packaging and how they consume it. And we're always thinking about how can, is there an application here? Can we apply it? Should we apply it? Should we not apply it? Because again, as I told you, we're a trust over trends, but some of it is, you know, sort of really compelling.

26:27And so we do work with different parties in Asia as well. Like when it comes to packaging for sure to see, you know, what are the newest, latest and greatest. And also going into the, as I said, going into that market ourselves and seeing with our own two eyes. So absolutely, it's a consideration, like all other things are a consideration. Our whole market is the US, excuse me. And obviously, it's important to us. And I would almost say, the US has a different point of view on skincare, which I think is very influenced by the fact that we're the home of Hollywood. But absolutely, Asia comes into our consideration set as well.

27:06And by the way, You know, we also run a business in the Middle East and in Western and Eastern Europe, and they have other skincare habits. So, you know, we're global citizens and we're constantly looking at what everyone is doing and how our doctors are doing things and thinking about how we integrate that into our new product pipeline. It makes sense, especially with all the new ingredients coming out. How do you feel about that? Like, I mean, over the years, I'm sure, you know, you guys have evolved, you know, obviously, but like with all these new ingredients that come out or that are being utilized, I mean, how does Obagi really go about changing a formula if you guys do or, you know, realizing that maybe another ingredient is a better fit for the results that, you know, a product is aimed for?

27:53How does, how is that whole process? Yeah. So that, that happens for sure in any business. And obviously we might identify that we want to make a change for various reasons. You know, we really try and push ourselves to be governed by, you know, when it comes to the regulatory environment by EU standards because they tend to be more stringent. But, you know, we might so it might be the reasons for changing a formula are vast and varied, by the way. It could be we find new ingredients that we think are more efficacious. It could be regulation has changed. It could be because, you know, we've decided that we, you know, need new formats, new textures, what have you.

28:34Or we need a new package. Our package is not working properly. And, you know, we need to test it now in a new package. So that's pretty common. And obviously, you know, there's a little bit of boring marketing in here, but because it is a process. And, you know, we will kick it off with a brief and we will brief it to our formulators and our regulatory teams. and then they will go and develop prototypes, which we'll then test. And there's various ways we'll test those prototypes. You know, obviously when you're talking about an existing product and making formula changes, you want to make sure that you're not compromising the performance of the formula that people know and love today.

29:14Right? Yeah, that's why I asked you because I was like, you have great formulas. You know what I mean? So if something changes or a new ingredient comes out, you know, that must be difficult to really. Yeah, it is. And it means that sometimes that change is not fast because we might prototype it and then test it against the current and find that it isn't performing as well or it doesn't smell the same or something. You know, the texture is different. And so then we might go back and we will continue to refine the prototypes until they meet the standards. And there's formal ways we do testing with either, you know, things like olfactory experts or consumer panels or professional panels.

29:54And then once we are satisfied that the prototype, you know, meets the standard and meets whatever change objective we had, then we'll start putting it under all the testing that is required to make sure that the, you know, the product is stable over time and so on, which are sort of industry standards that everyone does. And then we'll bring it to market. And depending on, you know, what the change was, how we talk about it will be different. But, you know, it's definitely very commonplace, especially with a brand that's, you know, 35 years old, that you may have to make some changes to formulas.

30:30But we do it, we take it really seriously when we do have to make a change to a formula because the performance is so important to us. And people have expectations from us. You know, this is not a new brand where they don't have an expectation. They have very high expectations of us. So we have to make sure that we deliver on those high expectations. That makes sense. yeah that makes a lot of sense i think you know that's the interesting part about it for me i mean i think it kind of goes back to what i originally like what we were discussing in the very beginning of our you know our chat was this idea that there's a lot of trends that are changing you know and and they're always changing and coming up especially on tiktok like i think the other day i saw something about castor oil again and i was just like the person was like castor oil fixes all of your problems you know and it's like that's all you need to do your routine there are a lot of people that are buying into that right now you know what i mean there's a lot and that's why i was like you know let me let me ask this question because i just don't believe like i like obviously i'm a scientist so i believe in the power of science you know what i mean like you guys have files you have the data you've tested your formula but there's so many consumers that hop on these bandwagons where they're like no like this one oil or this one ingredient that's it you know what i mean that's gonna save my skin and what when i see that it makes me think of brands such as obagi because how do you keep up with that you know i mean when when trends are changing so quickly and you're like i mean it must be interesting watching it from the brand side like okay yeah can we let this pass or like yeah and you know i think it shows that we're all only searching for that you know silver bullet so to speak you know that makes us not age and not have acne and so on.