Discovering Dossier: Turning Dupe Culture Into a Luxury Fragrance Movement

0:00Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy. This is Fragrance Friday and I have such an amazing guest with me today. I am a huge fan of this brand. I think a lot of us are. You've probably seen them all over social media. I know they're TikTok famous. Everybody loves all their fragrances. So without further ado, please welcome the founder and CEO of Dossier, Sergio Taft. Welcome, Sergio. I'm so excited to interview you. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited about this too. Yeah, no, I want to kind of dive in because you have such a unique background. You come from the world of finance, right?

0:31And now here you are in fragrance and beauty. What made you pivot? I think a lot of things in life, it's a little bit of coincidence, luck, and opportunity and seizing at the moment. Like you were saying, I was in finance for a long time and then caught the entrepreneurship bug years ago. So I started working on a hair care company, specifically hair extensions. That's how it started. After that, I had a skincare company and Darcy is now my third venture. Oh, wow. I didn't know you had a skincare line. Yeah. Did you stop? Did you stop doing it or you just got bored or something? Why did you stop the skincare line?

1:08I did that$50 ,000 get forward. Not all my ventures were hits. The first one, the hair care company, we made something out of nothing. So that was considering the very small capital we had to start with. We really built a nice little company. The skincare company went nowhere. After a couple of years, decided to stop that. Then while thinking about what else I could be doing, again, luck of the draw, I just had an amazing conversation with the person that ultimately became our first financial backer. And the topic of perfume came up. And it was an aha moment. It started from a simple observation.

1:46There's got to be a better way of doing this. A way of selling amazing fragrance and making this great industry available to everybody and not have people pay$150 plus to smell nice on a date. We want to make these fantastic perfumes, these fantastic products available and accessible for the 99 % and not just the lucky few who can fork out those kind of dollars at Sephora. yeah I love that what you've created and what dossier is doing is completely disrupting the system and I'm in the best way possible because I know so many of us can relate to this where you fall in love with the fragrance it's three hundred dollars and you're like okay do I do rent or do I buy the fragrance like it's like that and to have beauty accessible is the number one for a lot of consumers it's like the number one thing that we're looking for so it's a phenomenal what you've been able to accomplish in that area.

2:44Thank you for saying that. I relate to everything you say because consumers are looking for now is really they're trying to find high quality products at affordable price. It's not happening just it's happening in perfume but it's not happening just in perfume. Look at the success that Elf has had, Zara has had, Quince is having right now. That's what people are looking for and that's what we're trying to build in the fragrance industry. When we launched Dossier, we thought value was the ultimate goal. But our customers were saying something very different. And for them, value was a means to an end.

3:22And that end was discovery. A lot of people who love fragrance want to discover new fragrances and have different scents for different occasions. It's really hard to do when, if you want to buy three perfumes, you're down$500 if you want to have high-quality perfumes. And that's really what Dossier has enabled for them is to discover this fantastic industry and wear different scents in different circumstances. To your point, they don't have to choose between rent and smelly nice anymore. They can do both. Yeah. And you know what's interesting? I want you to break this down for us because I've never been able to wrap my head around the price tags.

4:03I'm not saying anything about the master perfumers because I know the amount of craft that goes into creating fragrance is just next level. I completely respect that the art, the creativity, the chemistry, it's a beautiful world. It's a lot of hard work. But no matter what I do, I can't get my head around a$1 ,500 perfume. It doesn't make sense. Can you explain what makes these prices go up? What drives that price up for brands? I don't have the answer. Honestly, I think the simple answer is because they can. These brands have created incredible ecosystems that people aspire to be part of. The Chanel's, the Dior's, the Tom Ford's of the world.

4:46What they've created as a brand is incredibly special and unique. And people want to be part of that universe. And to be part of that universe, one of the easy ways to do that is to buy the fragrance. because you don't have to buy a$6 ,000 handbag. You can buy a perfume. The reason why that fragrance costs$300 and not lower, I don't know. The simple reason is because they can charge those prices. That's what we try to do is really reverse that and make fantastic fragrance affordable for everybody at a high quality price, at a high quality point. That was important for us. Absolutely. One thing I find intriguing about Dossier is that some of your most beloved fragrances are the originals.

5:37Like, it factor is viral and amazing. I want you to speak on this because it's hard for consumers to grasp. What does it mean when you say the DNA of a fragrance is inspired by another? What does that truly mean? Is it a few accords or notes you're picking out and crafting something new around it? How does that work in the lab? A couple of answers. Our impressions collection got us known, and those are perfumes that are inspired by the luxury scents that you know and love. And that's how we really got known. But now some of our most popular perfumes are part of our originals collection, our own creations.

6:14We're trying to create the perfume house for the next generation. We felt it was important to have a strong impressions collection because that's what we're known for. people love us for that but also have that other strong leg which is the originals and what i want people to think about when they want to buy a perfume is i want to think i want people to think of dossier as the one-stop shop for all three fragrance what i mean by that is when people think of dossier they know that one they're going to get a super high quality fragrance at an affordable price number two they're gonna get access to a very deep collection of perfumes we have over 160 perfumes we will have something for you it doesn't matter what kind of perfumes what kind of notes what kind of olfactive families you like we will have something for you we also want you to explore other things you might not have thought of because the price point and return policies are favorable ultimately i want people to feel empowered more educated and like they made a smart decision that's really important to me and that's what we're trying to offer to all our customers yeah that makes sense i think at the end of the day the customer experience has to for a long time like perfume like i think i saw a video there was a girl she had something gifted a 500 perfume and she accidentally dropped it in her dorm room oh no and she was in tears bawling and she made a video on tiktok it went viral you should never feel like that right it's like oh my god i had an accident now my money is gone and i'm a college student you know what i mean that was my most beloved fragrance that's crazy to me that people go through back in the day when i had fragrance before before dossier it was oftentimes a gift and the question that would always go in my mind is, is this moment or is this occasion special enough for my special perfume?

8:14What I want people to feel is that, you know what? I'm going to a bodega and if I want to smell nice, I can do it because it's a no brain decision. I want people to indulge and use these fantastic fragrances at all times and not just for that special moment. That's super important for me. Yeah, no, I really resonate with that. I think that's what it's supposed to be, right? Beauty, fragrance all these industries they're supposed to be things that make us feel good in our day there are moments especially with fragrance right because you have so much tied to it like it's memory it's feeling like it's so much so i agree i completely agree with you one thing i would love to ask you what is something maybe a counterintuitive lesson you learned when launching dossier maybe especially because it's a dtc disrupt what were some counterintuitive lessons you can think of there's a bunch of them that come to mind number one i think i mentioned this to you in the beginning.

9:07In the very beginning, we thought that value was it. That was the reason of Darcy. But our customers told us value is a means to an end and that end is discovery. That end is building that wardrobe of sense that I've always wanted. And that end is me being, me, the customer, being able to wear different perfumes or different moments of my day in function of how I feel. Maybe I want to lay a different sense to create my own perfume. That was... something that we discovered quickly, which we didn't necessarily think about in the beginning when we created D 'Arsie. The other one that comes to mind is that my initial intuition was American men don't use perfume.

9:51Boy, was I wrong. Our customer base skews female, but some of our most engaged customers are men. And same thing, they are very passionate about their fragrances and very passionate about the quality and what they wear and being able to have that variety in their collection, which I thought was interesting. The final thing that comes to mind, the kind of customers we have are among the most knowledgeable people I've interacted with in the fragrance industry. They are super into it. They will think about the industry. They will research it. They will spend a lot of time trying to figure out what they want to buy and how their wardrobe or collection of perfumes interact and what it says about them.

10:41That was fascinating to me. I was not expecting that Darcy would have this kind of sophistication among its customer base. It was really cool when we realized that. Yeah, that sounds really cool. I've noticed as well, especially like on Perfume Talk, you see a lot of men are there. And it's a lot, very predominantly. A lot of young men. Young men or teenagers. Yes, they dive into it with the chemistry and understanding, helping educate people. I love it. I'm really here for it. Because I just feel like the beauty industry and the fragrance, all of these industries have been not very welcoming before for like to the male audience.

11:16So that's beautiful to hear that you guys like do provide that like safe space for everyone to come and explore and find something they love. That's wonderful. I'm happy you say that because we want to create a brand that is much more welcoming. The traditional luxury perfume industry has been very aspirational. Obviously, the price points were high. We want something different. We wanted to create a brand that is both very knowledgeable and very educational, but also very welcoming. And it's okay to ask questions and explore different things. That's what the universe we're trying to create. I'm really happy when you say that you are noticing that too.

11:54Yeah, absolutely. I've noticed one thing I was going to mention, and it's one of my favorite parts of the brand, is that you have not, I feel like a lot of fragrance brands focus so heavily on packaging and the fluff around, but the scent is not there. The fragrance experience is not there. And I feel like, I love your packaging, by the way, so don't get me wrong, but I think it's because it's minimalistic side, it really, it's not drawing attention away from the actual thing that matters, which is the fragrance. You open it, experience the fragrance, and make up your mind. Transparency on a different level.

12:27Maybe that's me as a consumer, but I value that in a brand. When I'm not distracted by extra fluff and I can get right to it, like down to it, and then make my mind up. Do I really like this brand or do I not like this brand? I think that's huge. Can you speak to that? Packaging is a huge component in the fragrance world. Sometimes I think that's what drives up prices. I think you absolutely nailed it. We took all the elements that make a great perfume, super high quality ingredients, great craftsmanship, made in France, and removed the unnecessary fluff. We have a simple, elegant packaging. We don't have a super fancy packaging.

13:02We don't have a super fancy bottle. We have a simple, elegant bottle. and we really try to go back to what perfume should be about, which is the actual liquid and the ingredients and the craftsmanship and the exploration. What you say resonates with me and with what we're trying to do at Dossier. It's not because we have affordable prices that the product is cheap. We spend money on choosing the best ingredients without perfume. We want the best of the best, but that doesn't mean we need to spend a ton of money on packaging that doesn't mean we spend a ton of money on bottle on the bottle it's the perfume inside that's important to us i love that this brings me to my next question i'm very curious about how you guys go about explaining to the perfumer the feeling that you're trying to evoke with a new scent and the vision you have i know with a lot for example a lot of celebrity brands right a lot of celebrity fragrances they're usually crafted around the persona of the the celebrity and it's like really catering to that so you can come to a perfumer with something like that and be like okay you need to craft something that's going to fit this or fit the personality or whatever that is for a brand you're really trying to relay that how do you go about doing that what's the process like if you can walk us through it yeah absolutely so when we're talking about originals it's really what we're trying to do is really create something that we think will be fun, we think will be interesting, and will resonate with the audience.

14:36Take our color collection, for example, our chief operating officer, Ines, and she's also in charge of all the product creation. Really, one day woke up and said, wouldn't it be cool to do a collection that's centered around colors? And then for one color, we only use ingredients from that color. For black, we're only going to use vanilla, pepper, etc. So it was a mix of, we think this is really going to resonate with the audience, but more importantly, we think it's a really cool idea and want to explore this. And we want our customers to, we want to take our customers through that exploration and through that process.

15:21So then once that idea comes through, And the ideas can come from many places. They come from our perfumers. It can come from our nose. It can come from our team here in the US. But once that idea starts developing, then it really becomes this great collaboration between the PD team over here, the nose in Paris, the perfumer in grass. And after a couple of backs and forth, that's really how we start developing those scents. That's very interesting. I'm curious about that because when it comes to a large collection, you have over 150 fragrances, right? That's quite a lot. So then going through and finding a way to maintain uniqueness, right, in every fragrance and maintain that newness with everything that you launch.

16:11I can't imagine that being easy. So that's why I asked you, like, how do you approach that with every scent? Yeah, I think people want newness. I think people aspire to discovering new scents all the time. And that's what we're trying to provide. But it's not easy. The Impressions Collection is about releasing perfumes that we feel our customers are going to love and they'll be in demand. And that's fine. On the original side, it's about how can we organize the new releases around collections that we feel good about. I was mentioning to you the color collection. That was an interesting one. We have a genderless collection.

16:47we organize these new ideas around themes we love whether it's the seasons color etc and then obviously coming with something different and original every time it's not easy but the team does an amazing job there's so much variety you can create in perfuming it never ceases to amaze me what people come up with and by the way there are some perfumes that we release what i'm thinking that's not really for me i don't like that but i know that some other people out there will love that perfume and it's all about you we're not going to release all the perfumes that i think are going to be amazing but how can discover and explore that's wonderful this makes me think of a question i've had for a long time and you brought this up in terms of the genderless thing creating something for everybody what is your opinion on a unisex fragrance i can't wrap my head around it because there's some that I've I've smelled and I'm like this is very I would say it leans more feminine right according to me but then people say no this is unisex so what is that how do you define that the unisex trend was interesting and happened years ago that was an interesting moment in the perfume industry that helped create some really cool perfumes one of my favorite perfumes is I feel that's one of the few truly unisex perfumes but now that trend has gone so far where you smell some perfumes that are labeled as unisex and you're wondering that's not really unisex is it that's quite feminine or quite masculine sometimes the trend goes too far but it's subjective some perfumes might be too traditionally female for me and some other people are saying no i actually really enjoy that so i think it's a bit personal too but yes that trend has been going off a long time and gone quite deep some perfumes really trending male i find it fascinating because i feel like sometimes like brands have used that almost now like nowadays it just becomes like a selling point i don't necessarily agree when things are labeled unisex i would love for everyone to enjoy this fragrance but don't do that for marketing that's misleading that's exactly it i want to talk about luxury and the whole luxury experience with you because it's a very fascinating shift luxury is just more accessible especially with brands like dossier when you're bringing true accessibility to an industry that shifts the entire focus of what luxury means so i'd love your insight on where you think the true luxury fragrance industry is headed and how you see dossier's role in all of that?

19:29That's a tough question. I go back to the same one I was mentioning before. The luxury companies have created an incredible universe and fantastic brands that people want to be part of. I don't see that trend stopping anytime soon. The luxury industry is obviously there's been a bit of a slowdown and I think the economy is showing a sign of slowing down. so I think luxury has taken a little bit of a hit but ultimately people are still going to aspire to be part of something great I think where we fit in there is that and I think it's a trend that's really strong now in the industry where people want high quality at a more affordable price and that might be driven by economy but it's also a deeply entrenched trend again I go back to these brands that have managed to do that elf quiz that's what they do and the customers beyond having a good a good or bad economy are really looking towards that where do we fit in there look with a small brand compared big brands and these amazing luxury brands they've created the universe we've managed to carve ourselves a little niche in that industry which we're super proud of and our niche is really to make high quality fragrances affordable for everybody and we're just going to continue growing in that so that's the space yeah that's what i'm asking because this whole component of quality right that's to me for consumers when they think about luxury quality is somehow embedded in that right so quality is something we expect if you're buying something luxury you are not gonna compromise on that it better be good there's a placebo effect right where you think it's 600 i'm gonna convince myself that's quality it's not sometimes it's not let's be real like i've spent i've blind bought perfumes that were like six seven hundred dollars and i'm like i'm miserable i'm like miserable i don't like them it makes you think as a consumer wait a minute what is luxury what does that mean for me is it just the packaging the label on the bottle how do I define that as a consumer?

21:46How do I hold brands to my level of quality? The reason I'm even bringing this up is because for a brand like Dossier, you guys are very consumer facing. People have more access to use. So people are buying more readily, right? You're getting sales from more people because they can afford your products. The criticism also comes there. When you have a brand selling for$700, people are not going to comment as heavily on that brand. They're just not because they're still living in that placebo mindset of, no, I love this because I spent so much money on it. I've convinced myself I love this. What are your thoughts?

22:18I could not agree more. When you pay a lot of money for something, it's hard to say, what have I just done? People don't pay money just for the product, obviously, but they appear to be part of that universe. That has a certain value for people. That's great. People who want to be part of that universe, that's fantastic. But the bigger trend now is the question, what is luxury for me? What does that mean is it the price point the quality of the perfume or the product what does that mean exactly and i think consumers are starting to redefine luxury as you know what i want high quality and i'm not going to compromise on quality and the price point will be where the price will be if i can get that for a great price fantastic if i have to fork out more i'll do that they are much more critical and focused on sheer quality and they're much more knowledgeable especially in the perfume industry and focus on that the question is okay i've paid 200 300 or 29 it doesn't matter but is this high quality perfume i think that's really important yes there is some placebo effect to your point and it's hard consumers to say i've paid so much money and feel silly but i think more importantly when it comes to luxury you're buying to the universe as much as you buy for the product yeah i i think you're right in that things are shifting now they are shifting i think people because they're talking more and the fragrance industry used to be this big gray area i feel like no one knew what was going on bill page very opaque very opaque it was hard to figure out like what was behind this and what were they thinking when they made that kind of stuff so So I think with that opening up more, the conversation has expanded.

24:04You guys have been very strategic with the retailers you've chosen. I'd love for you to speak on that. What was that decision-making process like when you were figuring out where you want to be available in the grand scheme with your accessibility? Yeah, we started building this brand online. Selling perfume online is not the easiest thing. So we started perfume the hard way, which is to sell online. And we had quite a bit of success. But ultimately, people want to interact with perfumes. smell them, feel the bottle, test them. So when we are looking for retail partners, one of the questions that came up is, okay, who would be a good partner and why?

24:43We felt we have two main partners, Walmart with Target, and we also have CBS. We started with Walmart and felt it was a great fit between us and them. They have this focus on high quality and low price. Walmart has shifted a ton in terms of how they position themselves, I feel. It's not the Walmart. Walmart is not like it was 10 years ago where it could have that connotation of maybe cheap. I think now Walmart is really focused on how can we provide quality for a great price. And we felt that the alignment was really good. And when you start conversations with the biggest retailer in the world, you get really excited because you know you're going to be putting these great products in the hands of many more people than just the people you can reach out to online we felt that was a great partnership we just launched target the products are flying off the shelf it's been a great launch all i keep getting is photos of empty shelves a problem but a good problem that launch has been fantastic super happy the typical target customer just with walmart we're reaching new people, people shopping at Target are the kind of people who would be shopping with us online.

25:54So there was a really good alignment. Ultimately, it comes down to what partners can we work with to put these great products in the hands of as many people as possible. We felt that CVS was that partner, Walmart was that partner, and Target was that partner. I love the retailers you've partnered with. The accessibility component is next level. For me, It speaks volumes when a brand is available. Availability is the biggest problem beauty has faced for so long. I talk a lot about skincare on this podcast, and I've said this before. If your innovations are not accessible, what impact are you really making?

26:31It becomes important to have that conversation across the board. Fragrance is very therapeutic for many of us. It's huge, right? Neuroscience is coming together now in the fragrance world, and we're realizing that people are using fragrance for so many reasons beyond just, oh, this is a nice scent. You know what I mean? No, it's therapy for people, like anxiety, depression. When you make great fragrance accessible, you provide a service that goes far beyond consumer goods. I'm a huge fan of what you're doing. I think it's awesome. Thank you. I think we all remember the dark days of COVID stuck in our rooms.

27:04Yeah. And I remember for myself, at least, I was by myself in this room working. And one of the nice moments for me was to wear perfume and just spray it on. It was pleasant. It made me feel better. It made me feel better about myself. And that was a huge aha moment, even for me, where I was thinking, I'm not just spraying perfume for other people so that other people can notice me. I'm doing this for myself. I'm doing this because I want to explore things. It helps my physical and emotional well-being. A super interesting trend was born. I don't know how much it was born out of COVID, but I think COVID enhanced it.

27:40The smell is associated with memories and emotion. Incredible. It's huge. I can tell you my own example. I've suffered from anxiety my entire life. So for me, fragrance has always been a part of the therapy for my anxiety. You know what I mean? If I'm used, I lean very heavily towards like more citrusy scents, more fruit because they uplift me. So through my day, I'm using fragrance as a therapeutic tool to have that accessibility and to know I can go to Target and get my favorite fragrance and always stock up when I need to. That's a safety blanket for a lot of us. It's a real conversation. Gen Z is experiencing this in astronomical ways.

28:15They're a generation flooded with hyper exposure to everything. And the anxiety rates and stuff has gone up astronomically for them. So like things like this are therapeutic tools that we have to acknowledge that as industries. Can I tell this interesting story? I was telling to this mom and she had this fragrance that she was, it was a singe just sent. So by the way, I think that concept has gone away with the younger generation. But anyhow, so she would always wear the same perfume and she had a young toddler. And what she noticed is that the toddler could not go to sleep or had a hard time falling asleep if he did not feel his mom's scent and perfume.

28:59So what she did Was that she would take a perfume And she would spray it On the swaddle and would give the swaddle To the toddler To fall asleep That was his way of falling asleep Which I thought was beautiful and crazy At the same time And by the way, that sin got discontinued So it was difficult for her An incredible story Of the power of fragrance and smell Where This young human being were able to fall asleep only thanks to that specific smell. That's beautiful. That's cool. I love that. It makes sense. You get used to people's fragrance, especially if you have a newborn. Newborns smell a certain way.

29:42You get used to the smell of the baby and vice versa. That's amazing. I love that. You brought up a point though, just now like briefly, and you mentioned how it's no longer about that like signature scent anymore. Can you elaborate a little bit more on that? Oh, it's a huge trend. I think people like my mom She has a bunch of perfumes, but her go-to perfume has always been, and will probably always be, Guerlain Chant d 'Elysée. That is her perfume. That's great. I think Genes, Geneviers, and Millennials, they aspire to different things. They want to have that collection of perfumes. They want to try different scents and wear different scents in different circumstances.

30:21Mix and match. I was mentioning this to you earlier, but that's something that we've enabled with the quality and the price point that we're offering. It's much easier for them now to buy a bunch of perfumes to see what they like, how they'll mix and match. And we're noticing that through our sales. When people come to a website, they tend to buy two to three perfumes in one go. Some buy five, some buy seven. And when they come back a couple months later, they buy two to three perfumes. Maybe one is going to be the same, but you're going to see people trying different things that's something that's really ingrained for gen v and millennials this concept of exploration and discovering scent and building your own wardrobe of scent versus just having that go-to perfume that you're known for which i think is a fascinating trend no i really think you said this because i feel like that is the new signature is like to play around and find your own mixing and matching and figuring out with my skin pH what really what works for me and what are the three scents I can mix together I love this new age where people are really getting into things like layering and figuring out like what do I like rather than the old fragrances right but there were like 15 notes in one fragrance and you were like this is the medley no need to layer yeah it's a fascinating world It's a great point.

31:48That accessibility component and making things available for people. It's fun that way. That word is so underrated. It's fun. It's fun to explore these things. I come to the office every day and we have this wall of perfumes. One of the best moments of my day is to try something new. I have my go-tos and my rotation of perfumes, but it's so much fun to try something new. When the team comes in and we start smelling the new things we're going to release, it's fun. is a very underrated word in the perfume world. Absolutely. One of the questions I have for you, and I love that you guys have expanded internationally.

32:25Congratulations on that. Thank you. I think that fragrance should be a global phenomena. I think it can really bring people together. So I'd love for you to speak on how being a global brand, how does culture play a role in the way you craft your fragrances and bring newness to the brand? It's an interesting question. And there are trends in what some countries or continents might like and not. But ultimately, perfume has become so universal that you are starting to see this conversion. And our best seller is Abri Saffron. It's the best seller in the US. It's the best seller in Mexico. It's the best seller in Europe.

33:09So perfume has started to transcend borders. trends go beyond borders. We were expecting more variety in terms of what people would like. Bear in mind, we're not present in Asia, so that might be a continent that views perfume. They view perfume in a different way than the US and Europe might, or the Americas and Europe might. So I don't have a strong view on the Asian continent. but it's interesting to see these trends go beyond borders in the u.s people are more bold and more bolder perfumes and in europe there's still this affection for these traditional more discreet sense to some extent but ultimately at least in my view these trends are going beyond borders yeah that's the interesting part because you guys are such a universal brand there's something here for everyone honestly there's enough in your collection where somebody can find themselves in one of the scents i would love to see you enter a market like india where fragrance is at the heart of that culture i'm indian myself and i remember growing up fragrances everywhere in my house the incense the flowers everything i was surrounded by it my entire life so when you i would love to see you expand into a culture where that is because i think they'd love you and indy honestly i think they'd fall in love with dossier but look i hope so we're always looking to expand and india and middle east are part of our roadmap and we'll see how we do there but to your point these are cultures where scent is everything the spices the incense in india and same for the middle east they are so knowledgeable and it's deeply ingrained in their day-to-day life.

34:59Those are two parts of the world where I'll be very curious to see how our collection plays and what is going to resonate. That's going to be a fascinating discovery for us because right now our strong mark is really the Americas at large and Europe. I'll be curious to see how those markets respond to our products. one of our strengths is that we have that breadth of collection. We will find something you like, no matter where you are. That's one of our strengths. We're really trying to continue on that trend. Absolutely. Yeah. That's why I brought it up because you guys have so many options. It's not just accessibility by price point.

35:36It's accessibility by the breadth of options that reflects people's preferences. I think that's phenomenal. Just to see that expand into different cultures that are focused central to their day-to-day, I think that would be phenomenal to watch dossier expand like india i know india would love you like i hope so yeah it's really cool but how do you see the future what's in the future for dossier what about ai i know ai is taking over every industry do you see that playing into your future what's ahead so if you talk about what's the future the company is six years old we're still super young and yet I think we've managed to achieve something quite special in those six years.