First Look: The Rootist’s Science-Driven Solution for Thinning Hair with Their NEW Density Collection

0:00Hey guys, welcome back to Skincare Energy, this is your host Deksa and I'm really excited about this episode because we recently hosted the brand that I am going to be introducing you guys today to, but I'm very excited because they have a brand new launch coming up, which is really, really cool. And I think if any of you have tried their products already, you already know how heavy hitting they are, how efficacious they are. I'm a huge fan. I literally use their product every single day. It's become a staple in my routine. And I said this in the previous podcast and I still stand by it. You know, I'm very, very much committed to this product line and really kind of incorporating it into my own routine.

0:40So with that said, I want to introduce you guys to the VP of Scientific Innovation at The Rudest, Alison Cutland. Welcome to the show, Alison. I'm so excited to host you. Hi, Ekud. Thank you so much for having me. I am really thrilled to be here from one biologist to the next to you. It's a pleasure. Yeah, no, the pleasure is truly mine. And I'm very excited to talk about the biology and the wonderful science behind the rudest of the new line that you guys have come out with. Because, you know, I think hair care is an area, and I'm sure, you know, Allison, you know this, but just for our listeners, you know, hair care for me is an area of the beauty industry that I think it requires so much more thought, you know, and now we're finally seeing this level of like, just innovation come forward, you know, after so many years of like, growing up with like, like the shampoos that would strip your scalp and, you know, just leave you in a worse off position than you started.

1:33Yeah, I had so many friends who had hair loss because of the lack of options that were in the space, you know what I mean? So it was like, growing up, like I had nothing but all these like, sad stories to look at when it came to like, truly, you know, people trying to take care of their scalp, their hair, and it's not working and spending endless amounts of dollars, you know, trying to make this happen. So now we're finally, I think, as an industry at a place where we have brands like the Rudist that are innovating and they're, you guys are really putting technology and science first. So with that said, Alison, I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about yourself, obviously.

2:09I mean, first and foremost, like what got you, you know, involved with the Rudist? Yeah. So a little bit about me. I'm a biologist by training and I studied in grad school, I studied medicinal plants and aromatics and a little bit of microbiology. And I ended up in the beauty industry like over 25 years ago. So as a botanical specialist, I've always enjoyed beauty. But to me, what was so important was really connecting with nature. And I have worked in innovation, really innovation with natural ingredients and sustainability, you know, for all of these years and about a big change happened in about 15 years ago in my career.

2:50And that's when the skin microbiome project was coming out and microbes started to arise as, you know, this, this other parts of ourselves that are really protective. And, you know, at that point, you know, we were looking at this, the gut microbiome, and then they were also identifying skin microbiome. And for me, there was a seismic shift that happened in skincare and personal care and really wellness in general. And that is, we have to take care of our microbes and microbes are everything. And it opened up this whole other interest to working with microbes in a way that will, you know, enhance our health.

3:30Of course, I was an avid fermenter and I just really felt strongly that fermentation and microbiome science were really where it's at. If we're going to get to sort of root wellness, root health. And so then it started a path for me and really working in biotechnology, still in innovation, but really emphasizing and working more with microbes. And so I've worked for many different brands like Kiehl's and L 'Oreal, Naturopathica. But I was on my own path as well. And I started my own line called Biophile, which used really, my goal was to make a hundred percent bio made formula. So biologically, a biological formula, instead of something that's sort of like old chemistry or bench chemistry, I wanted to make it, the biologist awoke at me, right?

4:20I wanted to make it like, what would your skin want? What does our body and our biology want? So those formulas were close to 95 % bio-made. Anyway, long story short, that was during COVID. I closed it down. I have known David for a very long time. In fact, they were producing BioFile. And we are very simpatico with science and their key chemist, Tanya and I go way back. And her dedication to sustainability and green chemistry, we just started talking. And David, you know, really wanted to launch this hair care line and really felt like biology was the key. And he was connected to fermentation and was like, Allie, let's work on this together.

5:03So that brings us up to today. And I really feel that, you know, shifting the hair care, the scalp is really an extension of the skin. And like you were saying, you know, so much it's been ignored, really. I mean, hair care was always the thing of like, it's just the strands, right? They weren't paying attention. shampoos and all that were just sort of like you putting it in. So your hair is healthier, just the way it looks. But the truth is, unless you have dandruff or unless you have really sensitive scalp, which sometimes we ignore, you know, all healthy hair comes from the root and it comes from the scalp.

5:36So, so, you know, using that intelligence that we use for skincare, the microbiome, all of these things and connecting it as a whole ecosystem was super exciting for me. absolutely i love what you said that you wanted to bring biology forward you know because i think that it's a really interesting time right now when it comes to the beauty and the wellness industries because we hear a lot about you know chemistry we hear a lot about things that have to do with chemistry you know related disciplines but biology gets kind of i don't know it not pushed aside but it never gets addressed you know everything really boils down to your biology that's the best system that we have you know your normal biology and normal physiology is the best system that we have to study to understand what it is that we need you know in terms of like helping things along and so i just always you know maybe that's me just you know really kind of vibing with what you said but i really believe in the in the power of understanding the disciplines of biology you know and understanding that there is a lot to be unpacked here you know in terms of you know you brought up the microbiome i love that you know because the microbiome you know we're just now starting to understand that as many cells in the human body there's 10 times as many on our on our body you know and it's like there's 10 people living on top of you you know 10 people worth of cells you know just they're living on top of you and that's the whole system that's regulating everything your cells are doing and so it's really crazy that we haven't really addressed it you know overall like till now but i'm glad that we're finally looking at it now i want to ask you you know in terms of because the rudest to me i really love what you guys are doing because i know you're very focused on fermentation and you're focused on the benefits and you know you have these concentrated formulations and my question for you is how does all of that work you know what is the real scientific you know the significant factor there that allows for better scalp health allows for better hair health overall?

7:40Yeah. So we, you know, I love what you said all about biology, but that's, you know, we really wanted to make these formulas really built on biology, right? Because when you do that, it actually is, is made to work better with yours. So, you know, these formulas are, are very consciously made from the, what runs through all of them, first and foremost is our root biomic ferment. So it is a fermented, is a patent pending fermented super brew that was designed to, you know, be a full spectrum nutrition for the root scalp and hair and really for complete hair wellness. So, so that what that means is anchored roots, a really balanced scalp and strong, healthy hair.

8:25And I can go into what's in it, but top line right now, that is the, what powers all of our formulas. So that really is the water phase. In other words, we don't use water, we use ferment. So imagine something, you know, like if you're making a smoothie, you know, how great is it to add something that is, you know, not just water in that, but actually like a broth that is nutrient dense, that has all of these biological elements to it that are just pure superfood, activated superfood for your body. That's what this is and that's what the backbone of all of our products are. So on top of that, then we use other biotech ingredients that are made sustainably and are better on the skin.

9:07And we use other, you know, actives and things like that. We, our formulas are very gentle, but they are highly efficacious. So that's sort of the, and they're also, we test everything for biodegradability. So they're biodegradable. This is by green chemistry principles, and they're all tested for microbiome friendliness. So we're really starting with the perspective of the scalp and the hair. What does it need? And that's what we put in it. And we don't add a lot of fillers. That's why they're very concentrated. So everything is designed to use less, but work better. Yeah. No, I really feel that though, because like I said, I am truly a consumer probably for life because I have fallen in love with your shampoo and your conditioner and I mean even the core products in the line like they're just so heavy eating for me as a consumer and and they really it shows you know because a lot of times like I have very like I have very long hair so for me it's it's hard for me to skip days you know shampoo days and wash days and so for me it's important to have products that I can use and they're not going to strip my my scalp you know much and that was that was a problem actually for me my whole life was that i was using like you know i hate to call out the brand but pantene you know i was using pantene for a long time and yeah i worked for procter and gamble and i remember even telling my boss that i was like i hate pantene probate oh man it broke me out you know what i mean it was just a bad for me it was just not the best story it broke me out you know yeah and also so in the past it was all about perception right?

10:44And so the bigger the bubble, the better, the bigger the bubble. And when you get big bubbles, what that means is that you're using sulfates and you're using a lot of really quite honestly, harsh surfactants that create this like, quote unquote, luxurious experience that people associate with clean and self-care, but it's actually doing the opposite. So, you know, it's important to use really gentle surfactants that don't strip the scalp, don't strip the microbiome because that's one thing, square one, that will offset everything is if you use a harsh surfactant like that. And in our conditioners, we really believe, you know, that it starts in the shower, you know, treatment and care really starts in the shower.

11:29So, you know, our shampoo and conditioner, again, are concentrated, they're in smaller bottles, you use less, but they're packed with treatment ingredients you know at powerful concentrated levels so while they're gentle to your scalp they're also starting your treatment phase from the wash cycle that's so interesting that you said that and i'm glad you used the word treatment because that's really what anything that is going to touch like like what you had said earlier about the scalp being an extension of the skin anything that's going to touch an organ it should have this approach you know what i mean like you should be coming at it from this approach of it is a treatment that is what it is you know what I mean and so for us to not act as if you know these products that we buy over the counter you know as if they're not treatment products that's absurd you know as consumers like we have to be a little bit more mindful of that and so one of my big questions for you I know that the new collection has launched you know the the rudest densify collection I would love for you to tell us a little bit more about it if you could share what products are in the collection and what the thought was behind it but also tell us about the science of it you know because this is the essence of it being a treatment so yeah yes so we are launching i believe it's today or tomorrow it's really exciting it's a three-piece regimen our densify collection it's a shampoo conditioner and serum and you know these have all been clinically tested and you know that clinically proven to reduce hair fallout by 85%.

13:02You know, it's, it improves fuller hairlines and part lines. 91 % saw less thinning at the scalp for thicker hair. So those are sort of the top line. We're really excited about our clinicals. They, they turned out amazing. And the before and afters are just say it all, but you know, this is a line that's really designed, you know, So again, leads with the root biomic ferment, but also adds specific ingredients to address thinning hair or whether or not it's from postpartum, just in general, if you have thinning hair or later in life, all of those things. So these products really with the root biomic ferment, that feeds immediate nutrition to the roots and scalp to promote thicker, denser hair.

13:48It improves anchoring. So that's really, really important since we're called the Rootist. Anchoring the roots and supporting the roots is really, really important for hair health, you know, promoting healthy hair growth, keeping it in that antigen phase, and also bringing blood flow to those roots. That's really, really important. You know, also balancing the scalp is incredibly important. Keeping the scalp calm and hydrated is really important to anchoring as well. So, and to reducing shedding and fallout. So, and, you know, with these products, they address all parts of that, the root, scalp, and the hair.

14:22In fact, there are ingredients as well that thicken the hair at the shaft, like amaranth proteins that will give you sort of an instant thickness. So these are products that, you know, you use them for 90 days, you're going to see clinically proven benefits in thickness and fullness of hair. And then you're going to see like instant sort of thickening and shine and benefits as well. So that's sort of the overview. I can go through each product if you want. Yeah, I'd love to learn because I know you have some. Yeah, I'd love to learn about the products because I know you're using a lot of interesting technologies as well.

14:57I mean, I know there's a lot of exosomes in, you know, so tell us about that. Tell us about the all types of tech that you use to create these. Yeah, well, we're we're very we we lead with biotech. We love biotech. And that's, you know, again, to the root biomic ferment is, you know, our fermentation technology is really a biotech product. It's nutrition, it's fermentation that's been around for a while. But the way that we've made it really maximizes effect on the root, scalp, and the hair. In fact, it's eight bioactivated herbals that are in there, and it's fermented with two probiotic bacteria.

15:33So altogether, this makes sort of like a super brew. It's very intentional. So again, that is the backbone of all of our products. Our serum, the densifying serum, has the root ferment as its water phase. It also has a lot of densifying peptides that are clinically proven to reduce fallout. It also has an interesting biotech ingredient that are turmeric stem cells, but they're also exosomes. So these are stem cells plus exosomes on the inside that are really heavy hitting ingredients for us. These are, for anyone who doesn't know, exosomes are really an interesting new ingredient in technology.

16:15They're kind of like little signaling molecules that plants have, animals have. This is really an interesting area of research and science. But they're little packets of signaling molecules. And these particular ones from turmeric that we use improve fullness and keep the hair in the antigen phase. They've been clinically proven to do that. And they also, and the way they do that is they have plant growth factors in them. So that's a really interesting technology that we're using in the serum. And as we know, turmeric alone is an amazing botanical that has anti-inflammatory, hydrating, brightening, calming qualities as well.

16:56Endless potential with turmeric. Endless. Endless. And, you know, and exosomes are new and it's incredible to see turmeric exosomes now have these, you know, growth factors and, you know, additional benefits other than just calming. So it's really, really incredible. One thing, one thing yet, I don't want to interrupt you, but I really would love to like kind of rewind a little bit because you had mentioned the antigen phase. And I would love if you could go through the phases of, you know, that are being targeted of the hair growth cycle, because I think that's really important for us to understand as consumers that there are phases of hair growth, you know?

17:34Yeah, yeah, there really are. And, you know, our products are, our technologies and our products are designed to have a full cycle approach. So there are three different cycles in the hair growth phase. There's anagen, which is the growth phase. There's catagen, which is sort of a transition phase. And then there's telogen, which is a resting phase. And typically in telogen and that resting phase, the hair will then fall out. So it's an active growth. It's sort of a, you know, stasis waiting there. And then it's a release of the hair. So what our products do is, are designed to do, is to really keep that growth cycle to promote more of the antigen phase, keep that growth cycle going.

18:20And then also in the catagen phase, which is sort of that stasis, to hold onto it. So that's more anchoring as well. So to make that phase last longer as well. And then in the telogen phase, to create an environment where it has growth going on underneath it. I mean, of course, hair will be released, but then you're going to have new growth just underneath that. So the telogen phase will be shorter. So if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting because like I, you know, it's crazy that we're not, we're discussing this because I mean, I know growing up there was literally nothing out.

18:58I mean, what was it? Rogaine? Like that was it. Like exactly. Yeah. There's no option. Like no one had any options to like actually target your hair density. You know, like, I mean, there were things that were like volumizing but it was never like you know here's something that's gonna really help your hair and you know help it actually grow physiologically like there was not really much out there i mean i know dermatologists have their methods right but at the end of the day the otc space is to me so fascinating because of these kind of technologies that come forward for the masses to utilize you know so it's that's very cool that you guys are doing yeah yeah and And in fact, you know, again, like that's, it's, it's, you're so right.

19:40Some of the, again, like unless you have an issue, right. Meaning, meaning like hair loss in, in men, really they focus more on also some women, but you know, Rogaine and then, you know, dandruff shampoos or things like that. It was always sort of like problem, you know, really dermatological problem. And then solution was, was, you know, these drugs where, you know, now when we start to look at the biology, you know, a lot of these, you know, plant extracts, plant growth factors, and things like that affect these, the hair cycling in these cycles. In fact, ginseng is known to affect the antigen phase and keep the catagen phase where it is as well.

20:23So it has been shown to really perform as well as minoxidil, if not better in other areas. So when you start to combine these things it's a more holistic approach that's highly effective yeah absolutely absolutely and also i mean you know what fascinates me about what you guys are doing is that you know because you're focusing so much on fermentation you're also utilizing ancient science you know in so many ways like you're really bringing forward things that we have not really considered as a society you know in terms of what works like i can tell you for me as a consumer growing up I mean hair oiling was just part of life you know it was it was what I grew up with and I thank my mother every day you know for that because it really nourished my scalp from a very early age and I think now when people are trying to play catch up with you know scalp health and maintaining you know a wonderful healthy scalp but oftentimes consumers get lost in this world you know of like well what should i do what should i do that's going to actually you know help my my scalp regenerate better hair new hair you know and and that's where this is so innovative to me what you guys are doing and launching this collection because we need that we need people to have real options because all i see now is a bunch of tiktok videos with people claiming that this oil and this extract and this you know what i mean like it there's no proof like where's your proof So, yeah.

21:52Right. Yeah. Yeah. This is what I, this is what I love about biology. It's like sometimes the things, you know, working with biology, some of the things we've known all along are really coming, are bubbling up and are proving to be more efficacious than, than all of the things that we've invented and synthesized. Right. And that is the power of biology. So, you know, fermentation has been used obviously in, in, in nutrition for a very long time. It also has been used in beauty. I mean, when you think of the fermented rice rinses, vinegars and things like that for the scalp, those are examples of when our grandmothers and grandfathers have known that these ingredients work and they're healthy.

22:35However, what we're doing is really taking it steps further by doing directed fermentation, using specific probiotic bacteria, using specific medicinal plants, including ginseng, skull cap, a whole bunch that really the fermentation process unlocks their potential on the scalp to work better, to penetrate better and to be safer for us. So we're utilizing that technology in new ways, which is super exciting. Yeah, it really is. No, it really, really is. I'm very excited for where you're leading the industry with this, because, you know, I think hair loss is a very emerging conversation. It's definitely, you know, got its roots in, in words like alopecia and these really strong, heavy hitting pathologies, you know what I mean, that impact so many people.

23:26But from an everyday standpoint, an everyday consumer, we are always looking for preventative options, you know, no matter what big pharma says. the truth is we want prevention you know as a consumer like i don't want to be in a position one day where i'm like why didn't i take care of my scalp you know 12 years ago when i could have you know or like whatever and that's where it's like these kind of products to me play such an important role in the overall landscape of what the beauty industry is because we have to approach things from this yes otc products can be the strongest arm of preventative care you know when we look at it like it really can be and so i i guess with that i want to continue talking about your products you know i know you explained the wonderful densify serum to us with the turmeric stem cells in it if you could tell us a little bit more about the shampoo and the conditioner especially yeah yep so the shampoo and the conditioner are again they're concentrated they have our root biomic ferment in them these are really you know the shampoo is designed you You know, for finer thinning hair, it's sulfate free and it really gives an instant boost of volume and thickening the strands while, you know, gently cleansing your scalp and treating it for fuller hair over time, right?

24:43So it helps minimize hair fallout, adds volume, and also promotes, you know, a healthy, balanced environment on your scalp for fuller hair. So again, there's that treatment step, right? In the shower with step one. And some of the key ingredients in our shampoo that we're highlighting is obviously the ferment. We have these amaranth peptides that are in there, which are really interesting. These visibly thicken the diameter of the hair within a single use. So you can really feel this after you wash your hair. The conditioner also has it, by the way. So, you know, you're getting denser, fuller hair over time, but you're getting it also immediately by using these products.

25:22And you do feel it. The shampoo also has inulin, which is a wonderful prebiotic, but it also adds this incredible creamy protective creaminess to the shampoo and also creates sort of a protective moisture barrier within that lather. So we're really working towards for these type of products, you really want to limit the amount of oil you use because it's thinner hair. And so you don't need a ton of oil, but you have to still hydrate it. So, you know, both of these, the shampoo and conditioner have interesting hydrating ingredients that make the hair really soft and hydrated, but still lightweight.

26:02The conditioner is silicone free. We do not use any silicones. It's very lightweight and it instantly boosts shine and also thickens after one use. So again, this is something that's going to leave your hair feeling thicker. It's not going to make it, you know, really oily or flat. And it's going to work long-term to promote healthier, thicker hair at the scalp as well. Has our ferment. Has the amaranth peptides, as I mentioned. And then this also has like a jelly moss extract. You see this in a lot of the health food stores. Jelly moss is really an interesting ingredient that has actually has prebiotic action, but it has full of vitamins and minerals.

26:44And it really is a hydrator and prevents breakage. so on the hair it's incredible moisture and without weighing it down so that's another hero that we put in that wow that's really interesting i didn't know that i didn't know that jelly moss is a wow because i i remember like you know before and and this is something i've noticed with the rudest overall like you know and i think in general with your formulations it really does like for anyone out there who is looking for shinier hair like that is like a goal you have for your hair you want it to be shiny look healthy you know like it really actually for me I've seen a huge boost in that since I've started using the line in general so I feel like that's like an underlying like huge benefit your line has that your hair just looks healthier like it genuinely does it looks and I think I said this the first time I spoke to your team was that it's it really feels like I'm finally like nourishing my hair and my scalp like I'm really like this part of my self-care routine like I'm doing nourishing things for my hair you know it's not just okay you know wash the grime away of the day or whatever no it's like you're it's an actual self-care moment where you know what you're putting in your scalp is going to have a lasting effect you know and for me a big a big problem I've always had is an oily scalp so the more and more I've started to notice like if you take care of the microbiome of your scalp you really do take care of it and you address it things like oily scalp and or dry scalp these things will go away with time it's really about balancing you know it's about like really creating that balance again so I'm I'm such a huge believer in what you guys are doing it's really cool I love that and by the way all of these products are microbiome friendly they're all tested for microbiome we've done those clinicals and they're, they're incredible.

28:35So, so, you know, what you feel is, is what's happening. And I, I want to mention another aspect of fermentation. I think you've mentioned it before, but the beauty of it is that it breaks down substances into smaller bits. It, you know, it increases its efficacy on the skin, but they penetrates better. It also increases the antioxidant power as well. But when you talk about your hair being healthier and shinier, it's like because the ferment and these other ingredients are penetrating so well, it's actually doing something from the inside out. So the conditioner, it can feel really different.

29:14It kind of, you know, looks like a lotion. It's almost like a moisturizing cream for the hair. You know, and that's because we don't use fillers. Everything is really active in there and you put it on, you wait like you normally do, but you can feel it just starts to transform and it moisturizes from within. And then when you wash it out and you style as usual, you're like, wow, my hair is actually moisturized and really shiny from, and that's because it's, you know, that penetration, the way that we're formulating it is really, you know, made for your biology and it, it, and it works. Yeah. I love that.

29:48And I, I'm glad you brought up the conversation about what fermentation actually does because i mean and you know way more about this than i do but i had heard a little bit you know and read up on a little bit where i think what i had read was that it actually fermentation actually allows for microorganisms to create new compounds that are like for example antioxidants new amino acids these kind of things that actually do work to nourish you know they work to really supply what you need and so what is like i mean with your experience like in fermentation like what is like the standard like amount of time it takes to do that like to create these new compounds and you know like how long does all this take yeah that's a great question yeah so a beauty of fermentation is the breakdown but what's almost more beautiful is what it creates the creation process which are you know microbes create tons of vitamins different peptides different you know B vitamins are very high in fermented, you know, prebiotics.

30:51It creates all of these wonderful, they're called postbiotics, secondary metabolites that just are incredible for our bodies. So the amount of time that it takes, you know, it's, it's a, it is, it is a process that depending on the microbe that you're using, depending on what you're fermenting changes. So sometimes people think like, you know, some, some ferments can last for, you know, months if not years in food in food making in biotechnology fermentation happens it's a more controlled process and you don't want to take it out too long so that it destroys everything you want it to unlock those ingredients make some new ones and then and then you know concentrate it and that's and that's where you stop so it can be anywhere from a week you know to a couple of weeks the fermentation process that's interesting yeah yeah because i mean it makes sense because whatever you're you're creating anything that's concentrated you know it's it's always fascinating to me you know like what is what's in there that we don't realize you know in in a good one so yeah yeah it's a black box but it's a good one yeah luckily luckily you know there are and more and more research is coming out there are these organisms you know we use two particular organisms that are that were harvested lactobacillus organisms plantarum and casey that were both isolated on plants.

32:15And we know that the postbiotics that they make, you know, all organisms make different organisms make different postbiotics. So what's really interesting is that you can select ones that are known to create certain postbiotics that you're looking for. So some are really, really good at creating hydrating molecules and enzymes. And so it's really fun. I think that's what makes biology so fun to work with is that there are sort of endless possibilities. And it's not only A to B. It's synergistic. It's, you know, holistic. And it's very powerful. Yeah. Yeah. No, this is like really fascinating to me because when it comes to like hair density also, like I was going to say this, like there's a lot, like you had mentioned minoxidil earlier, you know, and I'm all for, I mean, obviously, you know, I studied allopathic medicine.

33:09as well and I understand that you know there are things out there in the market that are meant for very specific pathologies right and and that is what it is but what we don't talk about and I think this is something that for me it really piques my interest in fermentation even more is we don't talk about things like toxicity to these chemicals and these pharmaceuticals that we're using and the reason I say that is because there's a lot of people I know like I personally know people that have used too much of what they're prescribed you know what i mean because they're desperate they want results they want it to work and what that does is that it really predisposes you to sequelae which are going to end up being more damaging in the long run you know for example minoxidil i'll tell you off the bat for anyone listening you know if you use it too often or not as prescribed you know a little bit more it can actually dry out your scalp it can actually hinder hair growth you know it there's a lot of like it's it's a really interesting like you know a teeter-totter between like what's really efficacious and what's too much and so with that I naturally get kind of anxious you know for consumers because we need more safer options you know what I mean that that are really going to deliver and I just feel like with the hair and the scalp and the way that we are used to treating it like just normally we tend to leave things on our scalp you know we tend to like that's just it's natural and so whatever you're leaving on there or you're applying for a long time just know that there is such a thing as a toxicity profile you know and so that's where I think OTC products can be helpful is especially something like this where you're rooted in something like fermentation which you know is using what is already biologically available and in a way enhancing it you know normally like naturally and that's I think Like in the long run, I'm not claiming anything on behalf of you guys or anything, but I'm just saying for me, it scientifically makes sense in my brain, you know, to like gravitate towards something like this more so than I would more, you know, than a prescription drug that I don't know much about.

35:11Like, let's be honest, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was just going to say, you know, the side effect, the most common side effect of minoxidil is redness and irritation. So like you said, so what that does, and that actually, as you mentioned, causes hair fallout and causes a cessation of growth. So the root is highly sensitive to that, the cortisol and inflammation. When inflammation happens, it's this cascade of oxidation, irritation, and hair fallout, and that's that whole cascade. So it's a little ironic to use an ingredient where side effects are something that really work against it. So I, you know, and if there's a way to use, you know, really gentle ingredients and ones that work, you know, on similar pathways, but don't cause any irritation, in fact, calm that irritation, like the turmeric stem cells or ginseng or skullcap, those are all anti-inflammatories.