How Efficacy and Integrity Can Coexist in Natural Beauty Ft. ANNEMARIE BÖRLIND

0:00Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy. I'm really excited about the brand I'm introducing you guys to today because I have really fallen in love with all the options that they have for all sorts of skin types of skin and the products are incredibly efficacious. I've been really, really diving into them. So without me ranting too much, I want to introduce you guys to the co-CEO of Anne-Marie Brolin Skincare, Alicia Linder. Welcome, Alicia. I'm so excited to chat with you today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very much looking forward. Yeah, I'm really, really excited to dive in and learn more about the brand.

0:48But tell us about the history of the brand. Where did it start? You've been around for a while and before skincare It became a hype, you know? Absolutely. Definitely. Yeah. So my grandmother, Anne-Marie, founded the brand over 66 years ago here back in Germany. She started because she had very bad skin issues in her late 20s. And she figured out that nothing would really work for her skin. And back then, chemistry was a big thing. And she got prescribed really bad creams that wouldn't work on her skin, but her skin peeled off. And she said, well, there must be something in nature that my skin knows already and that will work on my skin.

1:25And that's how she started Anne-Marie Berlin. And she would always say, like her credo was always, if I can't eat it, I won't put it on my skin. Oh, I love that. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. And I love that the brand is, it's incredibly efficacious. I mean, your product, I said that earlier. And I really love it because it's not like screaming from the rooftops that we're only science. You know, it's a very approachable brand. And I really appreciate that a lot about it. And I think a lot of legacy brands do struggle with that because staying relevant in this industry is very difficult. So how did you approach that?

1:59You know, you're the third generation leading the brand. So how did you approach that struggle? Well, there's always like each and every generation gave something particular to the brand. For example, my grandmother, she was very much fighting for the idea of naturalness. So we're natural skincare, meaning there is no silicons, no parabens, no harsh chemicals at all. So that's what she fought for, what made the brand relevant back then. Then she handed the business over to my dad and he would advocate very strongly for the efficacy. So each and every product we have is tested by a third party and really has proven efficacy.

2:36And then my brother and me took over five years ago. and so our focus is very much on the heritage of the brand of the origin of the brand so we're from the black forest in germany which is a very clean and pristine area and that's where we manufacture all of our products with our own deep spring water and that's something that we would emphasize on next to all the other things that we inherited of course like being effective natural skincare and then of course i mean the internet that is nothing that we also added and that's a That's a huge thing in order to stay relevant, of course. Right, of course.

3:12Now, I think it's really cool that you have roots in Germany, though, because I think a lot of times whatever culture plays in or even geographical locations and, you know, natural phenomena that take place. Like, for example, there are spring waters in upstate New York that people talk about their healing properties. And so I've heard about this with many areas of the world. It's very fascinating for me as a scientist, because I think there's a lot of science that is unexplained in some of these things. Yeah, of course. And when you think about it, water is the substantial part in cosmetics, right?

3:40In skincare. And usually tap water is being used. And that's been recycled a couple of times. So it went through all of our bodies a couple of times. There is still substances from drugs, medicines, from all different parts that can't be recycled or can't be taken out of the water. So the water that we're using is super clean Black Forest deep spring water. So that's the concept. So how do you guys approach sustainability with all that? Well, that's always been like in our DNA, even before it was cool, when people were still like, why would you do that? Why would you, I don't know, look after where the ingredients are sourced from?

4:17Why would you look into packaging that is sustainable, that it's glass containers or recycled packaging, whatever it is? So it's really been in us and in the brand for us. Like all we had to do is just update it and let the world know about it. So this is really the sourcing of the ingredients. We're looking very much for European sourcing. Helped us during COVID big times, actually. When all the supply chains were in shock, we were the only brand that was still able to deliver to perfumeries in the department store. But that's the side. Then we take great care in checking if glass is the right thing for a product or if it's recycled plastic.

4:55And all of the containers have to be recyclable. So that's a very important part, obviously. Then we have our own energy that we get from the sun. So, I mean, there's tons and tons and tons to talk about. Yeah, no, that's really, really cool. And I think that the brand really speaks to a lot of people, I think. You know, the way it's evolved over the years, I think you guys really do have something here for most people that I see, right? Represented even in our audience. It's just a wonderful thing to have that because I think a lot of times brands that are bigger and they have a lot of offerings, it's very difficult to sustain.

5:29And that's why I asked you that question, because I see it all the time in this industry where brands will expand their offerings and then all of a sudden something happens, whether it's COVID, you know, something like COVID or just the market fluctuating, you know, investors not wanting to invest like they used to. And all of these things play in and then you start to wonder is why did they even create so many products? You know what I mean? Absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, looking at the business side of sustainability, that's a big thing for us too. So we only grow with the money that we earn ourselves.

5:58We do not have third party investors. So the company is owned by my parents, my siblings and me. And the idea is that I'll be handing the company over to my children or to the fourth generation. So we do not have like crazy investors that give crazy money and all of a sudden they're gone for what reason so ever. So that's a big part of sustainability is also very much on the economic side of things. Yeah, no, it's really fascinating. I'm glad that it's like that, though, for you guys. That's very cool. And I think for just everyone listening, because we have a lot of brand founders that tune in.

6:26I mean, my opinion about all of this is just you have to be very careful with people investing in your brand, because I think sometimes people become not that that's a bad thing. That's a great thing, you know, to get investment and stuff. But sometimes I've seen this happen to a lot of newer brand founders where like they get investment and then it's not your brand anymore. You know, you're being forced to turn out products. You're being forced to turn out things that might not be something that's the best option. You know what I mean? Your overall brand image. So yeah, it's very fascinating how you guys have really curated the way that you've presented.

7:00Now, one thing, I know you guys are coming, you're in Nordstrom right now, right? Or you have a partnership? Yes, we are. How did that come about? Well, working on it. Yeah. Well, you know, we're also at Neiman Marcus and we're starting at Dillard's. And it's tough as a brand that does not bring like the millions and millions of dollars of marketing budget to the table. You have to convince with other things. And that's in the end, the success story from the German speaking world that really helped us opening doors. Since we're the biggest natural skincare brand in Germany, we are the number one anti-aging natural skincare brand in Germany.

7:40And, you know, there are a couple of things where in Germany, people would always tell us like, this is not going to work out and this is not going to happen. You know, your family company, all the other multinationals, your natural skincare, all the others are conventional. Your German brand, even in Germany, all the other brands are French and Japanese and American, right? So they would never think that we could make it, but we did. We worked our way up there because we're very loyal customers. And that's the same story in the US. We're arriving there as nobodies, right? So what is your track record hero there?

8:14And of course, you got to build it up and you have to prove that you know how to do brand building. You have to prove that you know how distribution works, how precise luxury distribution works, that you must not be like in the mass market just for the quick fixes, you know, and that kind of stuff. You have to have a team that has a proven track record. And yeah, you got to be creative. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. No, I mean, that's wonderful that you said that because I think it's I mean, and also congratulations to you, you know, because coming into another territory and starting in a new market can be very lots of challenges, I'm sure.

8:50yeah i want to ask you though how do you actually approach your product development process i mean where does it all start for you guys so we have our own r &d department that's 15 ladies it's only ladies working there developing the product and of course they come along with hey that is a super cool new ingredient or they come along with stuff like oh look at that we can manage to to have vegan collagen. And so it's not from fishbone, but it's made from soy and wheat proteins. And so they come with creative ideas when it comes to new ingredients, for example. Then, of course, we have our sales team that would always be like, oh, these are the new trends in the cosmetic world or in the food industry.

9:31Food industry is a big source of inspiration for cosmetics. Then, of course, we have our innovation process where marketing comes along. I have a ton of ideas so i travel a lot throughout the world and of course i see a hundred and thousand of things that we could potentially do maybe packaging maybe ingredients maybe claims maybe textures you know you name it and so it's not a question of how do we find or how do we get the ideas but how do we narrow it down to the blockbusters absolutely no that makes sense i mean it's interesting that you're discovering things as you go and you're applying them in the line i mean that's really neat because i think that's how consumers also we also think like that you know i for me whenever i discover something anything whether it's beauty skincare wellness whatever it's always from this discovery process i realize like oh wait i just heard about this great herb you know i wonder if someone's making a supplement with this those kind of things i think it's a very natural way to create products absolutely oftentimes i think it's a little forced with a lot of a lot of times brands do this and i see it all the time where it's like they'll come out with a new product and it's like that's such a forced launch because there's a trend going on or something, you know, like on TikTok or whatever.

10:40Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, when you really love the industry, which I think both of us do, there is so much inspiration. There is so many cool brands, so many cool products, so many, you know, it's just a very fascinating industry. And as you say, like maybe food supplement or whatever it is, so much inspiration. Yeah. So much inspiration. And I, you know, here's the thing. There's a difference between being inspired and like a lot of times people dupe that dupe culture is what I've seen come out of that's why I'm saying all of this is like for anyone listening I'm sure you guys have seen the brands that are just like oh well this product worked for this brand let me make my own version of this it's just like that's not it you know that can't be it because what happens in that is you create a bunch of stuff that is not efficacious because it doesn't work for everybody's skin and that's what I think your brand really stood out to me in that way because you have such unique products, especially I'm a huge person.

11:34For example, I love night products, like anything at night that I can put on my skin, the best. It's the best, you know? And I want to talk a little bit about one of them specifically. It's the Natunio. Is that the brand? Natunio, yes. Yeah, Natunio, the System High Performance Overnight Inverse Cream. That is one of my favorite products in your life. What went behind your night creams? What was the inspiration behind them? Because they're all wonderful, actually. I've tried all of them. Thank you. I mean, the idea behind our night creams and we do have for every skin type and for every age we have the right series and the right product but it would always come in a five-step routine you know you can't shorten it down like if you want to have the full effect you have to go through the five steps so that is cleansing that is toning day cream and or night cream and night cream plays a very central role in the skincare routine i don't have to explain you but it's for some listeners because during the night the skin regenerates and it needs support for that you know it needs support in order to clean out the cells and get out all the rubbish that doesn't belong in there or the trash and that's what we do have in our night creams and in particular what i love about the nato neo night cream it's a very light texture so when you apply it it could be a day cream as well right so you're not sticky you're not shiny it's very boyfriend approved but then throughout the night and that's the trick about the overnight inverse cream it actually changes into something heavier.

12:59So when you wake up in the morning and you wash your face, you feel like, oh, there was power behind that cream. I can still feel it. There's more to it. And very important to mention, that is not the silicon that you would usually feel on night creams because we don't use any of it. So it's actually the cream itself going through a changing process throughout the night and through the body temperature being activated in order to become a richer night cream. Oh, wow. That's really fascinating about the body temperature. Wow. That's really cool. I mean, I think that it's very fascinating when you think about how the skin does change.

13:34I mean, you brought up temperature that makes me also think about, you know, people formulate a lot of day products and they don't keep in mind that, yeah, you're going to be exposed to higher temperatures, sometimes colder temperatures. Skincare has to be adaptive to those environmental factors. Yeah, that's great. And, you know, on TikTok, talk we've seen so many of these skincare trends for example and you see all these girls putting the skincare on their face directly like in these dots oh yeah no please put in your hands first you need to warm it up a little in your hands you have to rub it in your hands and then you have the scent of the product it's being activated the oils in it are you know in the right consistency the right texture that has to be so these kind of things for skincare nerds like us no i mean i completely yeah we really are i love it though i love it because at the end of the day i mean this is what it is though the tiktok trend thing is just it's getting out of control and they put the creams and like the alternating one pink dot one white it's just like it's wild you know to see this like don't do that to your skin yeah don't do it yeah i think it's a really important message though that you're sending because i think in that way that we need a full routine.

14:48I think that's such a crucial thing. Oftentimes what I see happen, and I've done this, I'm guilty of this too, is consumers love finding that one amazing product. But then we forget, where's our cleansing step? You know, where is the priming step with our essence or something before the moisturizer, whether it's your serum, all of these steps kind of get lost because you find that one hair product and you're like, this is it for me. But your skin, you have to have a system in place for how you manage it. So I'd love to discuss this with you is with time, obviously, you've seen that consumer demands have changed, right?

15:21In terms of what they desire. I know right now, science is the focus for many people. They want to learn more about why things work the way they work, especially with skincare. So how did that impact you guys as a brand and making sure you're staying true to your customers? Yes, very important point. That is something that came up for the brand very early because we always had to fight the stereotype that natural skincare does not work. And therefore, in the 1970s already, my dad said, I'm going to bring these people scientific proof that the products do work as good as conventional cosmetics and even better than conventional cosmetics or skincare.

16:01So we started very early in undergoing that process of having all the products not only tested but actually proven you know it's two different things the cosmetic industry is trying to not talk about it but it's two different things if something is just tested or if it's proven efficacy and so therefore we started early with that and that's how we kind of became that different natural skincare brand because natural skincare brands they don't look into proven efficacy they tell you that the product does not do any harm. But that was not enough for us, right? So we don't put that one single flower in the cream and say, okay, that's going to do wonders.

16:37But we are putting a complex of ingredients, a complex of active ingredients that do the trick into the cream that will work on the skin. And then we let it have it tested by a third party. So it came very naturally to us to have that scientific proof and that science aspect in it. It's just what people find fascinating that it's actually working for natural skincare because that's a niche like there's no other brand that does it yeah no i mean i think the word natural kind of implies that you haven't done any testing or anything you know that's what for some reason consumers love thinking that but i think it should be the opposite you know if something is coming from nature there's a really very well grounded scientific reason for why it works nature doesn't just do things for the hell of it so i mean that's cool though i'm glad that you're bridging this gap honestly because we need more brands like this yeah no truly great job with that because i at the end of the day consumers are confused i mean i'm sure you've seen it clean beauty is everywhere you know that stamp it will not go away and i'm not saying it should it's just that i think it's misleading you know and i i think when people say a product is clean it implies just i don't know something different for everybody you know we all interpret it so differently and i think when you say because clean has become such a big thing, so many other things.

17:58So we're talking about like naturally derived ingredients, right? And that gets looped up in there. And then people bring all the other categories in and they kind of merge it with the clean label, but it's just not true. It's very important to kind of distinguish between clean versus naturally based, you know, scientific, clinical grade, like all of those things are important to discern. Yeah, absolutely. And just being clean doesn't do the trick, right? Just from leaving out things that doesn't do the trick at all you need to be clean and scientifically proven so exactly no most brands don't go down their way yeah exactly no i agree so in terms of some trends that you do like maybe you could share some with us that actually did impact the brand was there anything that you saw that you were like oh this is kind of like inspiration for our next product yeah i love the ipad trend we've had an ipad product our hyaluronic eye patches they were just like underdogs that was 2015 right people were like, what is that?

18:53Why would you put something in your face and leave it there? Doesn't it look funny? And then that eye patches trend came from Asia. And we're like, oh, we actually do have the product, which is not based on silicon, but it's actually hydrogel from algae. And there was someone where we're like, okay, see, we have the product here. And people were like, oh, oh, it's actually, you can make that from Germany too. Okay. I didn't know that. And now this is one of our best-selling products it is an internet sensation everyone knows that product from us yeah hyaluronic eye patches are just you know they're amazing they're amazing i've tried them they're so good it's like you reinvented the eye patch with these products yeah it's really really good yeah it's and it's a it's a great product i mean you put it under your eyes for 15 minutes and the day is yours right so that's a very very good example of how a trend happened that caught us by surprise to be honest we're like oh wait we have a product can we can we make something of it and yeah and it's a it's a cool product very effective it's very natural as well since again it's not a silicon patch so when you put that patch into water it actually dissolves because it's again made from algae and it still does the trick very much and to every person i give that eye patch people are like what on earth i need more of that yeah they're really good no i i can attest to this i i tried the eye patches and you know you don't think about eye patches actually because now like you said it's become a thing everybody's doing eye patches everyone has an eye patch but not all eye patches are made the same guys like let's keep that in mind i mean honestly because i noticed an incredible difference when i tried it i think that for me i don't know personally speaking i don't have the problem with puffy under eyes for me it's more dark circles so like i try to keep that area hydrated because one i'm always using products for under eye you know whether that's makeup or adding on a cream for the day or whatever because that's my concern so i found these to be very nice and they play nice with my other products that was a huge thing for me because oftentimes the serum in the eye patches it pills when you put makeup on top it becomes very hard to work with so this was not the case with yours i liked that very much about them so thank you thank you and they're very you know easy to use as well because they don't move there are a lot of eye patches that slowly wander down your face right they migrate they stay and you know it's as simple as that you can you can put them on in the car you can put them on i know when you're in the park when you're between meetings when When you're in a meeting, they're transparent.

21:31You can actually not see them on camera. I've tried trillions of times. So that is very handy. No, I love them. I think it's a really great product. All of your products are wonderful, though. I haven't tried a single thing where I'm like, I don't like this. Yeah, I know. I think it shows. And it shows that you guys have really been around in this industry for a while. You've seen everything. You worked with everything that you could and you've created things that are meaningful. That's the bottom line. I think that's what consumers should look for. and I always say this, I sound kind of like I'm preaching to people, but I'm not, you know, for everyone listening, I'm just telling you guys, I feel like when you're going to spend your money, you have to figure out what do I really need?

22:09And let's find the best quality product that's going to do that for me. So that's where I think what you've created and what your family has created here is it's so timeless and it's beautiful because the products, every single one hits hard. It's doing what it's supposed to do. It's whatever is being claimed is actually, you're going to see those results. And so I really encourage our listeners to get behind these types of products because this is what's going to make your skin change, you know, at the end of the day. Not the trends. You're the sweetest. Thank you. You know, we put our heart and soul into this.

22:39We really mean that, you know, this is not a cash cow thing where it's like, oh, let's take trillions of dollars out of that. That's totally not what we're after. We're on a mission and I'm carrying on my grandma's legacy. So I'm over the moon to get your feedback. Thank you so much. It's so sweet of you. Of course. No, I do have a request, though, for your R &D team. I would love to see you guys create more masks because I love masks. I'm like a huge masking person. So I think because every other product is so amazing, I'd love to see you guys bring more masks out for us because they're just, I mean, it's hard to make a good mask.

23:11No one believes me when I say this, but it's very difficult. It is. It is very difficult. And we're bringing them to the U.S. We do have masks in Germany, like anti-aging masks and hydro masks. And we're bringing them to the U.S. bit by bit or step by step. And I'm sure you'll find a great mask that you'll fall in love with. I'll make sure you get them. Thank you. Thank you so much. And for everyone listening, I hope you guys will check out the brand. Make sure to check the show notes for all of the links and we'll link the actual website down there. So you have to go check it out. But Alicia, thank you so much.

23:42This was lovely chatting with you. Thank you so much. Wonderful talking to you and all the best. Thanks so much for your time, love. Thank you. Hey, guys. So I hope you love that episode. Please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform. We are available on so many different platforms. So wherever it is that you're tuning in, just go hit subscribe. You will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes. This way you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts, brand founders, industry leaders, authors, all the wonderful people that we host. And that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.

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