How Journalism is Redefining Men’s Grooming with Blue Print by Adam Hurly

0:00Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy. I am super excited about this episode. It's very special because we're finally going to be talking about everything that has to do with men and what men care about when it comes to skin. the wellness industries, the grooming industries, all of that stuff. And we have such an expert with us today. He has been a grooming journalist since 2013. He became GQ's contracted grooming writer in 2016. He's written for just about every men's publication out there. And now he's finally doing his own thing and launching his own space where he's going to be taking this even further, which is called Blueprint.

0:35And so I would love to introduce you guys to Adam Hurley. Welcome, Adam. I'm so honored to host you. Oh, Ekta, thank you so much. I'm equally honored to be here. It's a favorite podcast of mine, so I'm having a pinch me moment. Oh, thank you so much. That makes me very happy to hear that. I want to learn all about you, though, Adam. I mean, this is such a cool move and such a cool new chapter for you. I mean, I'd love to learn about your journalism experience, your journey, right? Because you have so much experience in writing about this. And where did it all begin for you that you wanted to go into journalism?

1:04Like, where did that start? Well, I was, you know, the goody two shoes in high school, and I was editor of the school newspaper then. And we had, I guess it was one of the top newspapers in the country. We got to speak at the national conventions and all that. So I was the editor-in-chief of that newspaper. And then I ended up going into journalism in college, although I shifted over to public relations. And so I got that degree and I had no intention of actually using it, to be completely honest. I also studied film and I wanted to work in film. I graduated in 2008, so I just took a bunch of different jobs.

1:38odd jobs here and there in production, in film festivals and talent management. And the road eventually just led me back to journalism because of a job at Birchbox in 2013. They needed a men's grooming journalist. And I had all this video production experience and this web editing experience from the random jobs. And suddenly I just started using my journalism degree for a tech company. And very quickly, I also learned about men's grooming along the way. So it really just found found I found my way back to it. And it's it's felt very much like a home for me ever since that that first day of the job.

2:12So I've stuck with it ever since. Wow, that's pretty cool. I mean, I love when things happen like that. You know, it's like true destiny. When things just fall together. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I'd love to ask you, though, because you've covered just about every major men's publication. What's the biggest shift you've seen in men's grooming journalism over the past decade? Well, I really started, I would say, when print was dying out. I guess it's been dying out for a long time, but I was never really in the print side of things. I really hit hard on the digital side. And it benefited me when I started covering men's grooming because I was not precious about the print aspect of things.

2:50And I was really good at the fast pace, you know, just let's write this and get it online. And so the biggest change I think since that is in the last couple years, this hard shift towards the search engine. And the search engine, especially in the last couple years has really blurred the lines between editorial and advertising, because there's such a heavy focus on the traffic that comes from those searchable subjects that a lot of the revenue comes in from the pieces that are performing really well. and so it has created this situation where we're only covering things lately that are highly searched and that can be good because there's a lot of service journalism to be done there's a lot of wonderful products and fantastic brands out there but it has in my opinion really flattened the coverage of men's grooming because i'm not able to just write a little love letter to a new product that I'm in love with or spotlight a brand and tell their story if they're really small, because no one's searching for those things.

3:53So that to me has been the biggest shift in the last few years. And I do think it's actually going to change again now that AI is sort of killing the search engine. I think that will benefit the coverage, if anything, I hope at least that we will have to pivot back towards really focusing on the individual aspects of grooming and these little love letters and the things that are trends that we are spotting as opposed to reactive journalism, which has really been the last few years of my experience. Yeah, it's really fascinating, actually. And I never thought about that. It was this search engine aspect because you're right.

4:28I feel like for me as a consumer, as a female consumer, I always looked at products for men and I was always thinking there's not enough out there, you know, and I know I've said this before on SA before. Our listeners have definitely heard me say where I'm always like, where are the men's products, you know, like for skincare or something like that. But what you just said really kind of opened my eyes a little bit just now, because if you really think about it, it's not that they're not out there. Yeah, it's that they're not being talked about because of probably exactly what you just mentioned, you know?

4:55Yeah. And, you know, we have to place a lot of products that we know are going to sell. I will say that I've been protected by editors and publications from having to curate products based on partnerships or anything like that. I am given really good editorial reign over what I choose from my articles, but I still have to do so with the understanding of, you know, I know this one is going to sell really well. I know this one is going to sell really well because that is what keeps the lights on. So I almost have to lead with that sort of thing. But what I will say is regarding what your impression is of the men's side is I, you know, as someone whose inbox is inundated with men's products, I always say, no, we got plenty of men's products, that's for sure.

5:34However, there is an ecosystem that I think exists on the women's side that doesn't exist on the men's side. And there's all these brands that are so small that maybe they don't see the value in buying a publicist or they don't want to put that into their budget because it can be very expensive. And so it's a lot more built on these really small relationships. A lot of them have my phone number and I have a very personal relationship with all these brand founders because it's such a small pool on the men's side that I just don't think there's the fervor around men's grooming that there is on the women's side.

6:04I mean, I know there's not, but I do hope in building my own platform, Blueprint, and just the next iteration of content on the internet, I do hope that we can blow this open a little more and this new generation of consumers can be a lot more interested in these wonderful men's brands that are out there and that continue to pop up. Absolutely, no. That's why I think I love so much that you're doing this and you're taking this step to create Blueprint because we as women even are curious about men's products. You know what I mean? Like there is a curiosity on the - I think half of our traffic on men's content is actually from women, whether they're shopping for their partners or just out of their own curiosity, perhaps.

6:46Yeah, no, absolutely. Like I'm always looking for stuff for my little brother. Like I'm constantly, you know, cause he's still dealing with acne and all that stuff. So it's like, I don't know where to direct him sometimes. So yeah, I can definitely see where women are still, looking for their sons, for their husbands, for their fathers. Like it's a big thing. And we're the ones usually shopping. Yeah, no, it's true. We are very aware that sometimes the audience we're speaking to is in fact, the concerned partner or mother or sister of somebody who maybe isn't as proactive for himself. I don't want to put any adjectives on it.

7:21But I do appreciate that people are looking out for the people who maybe aren't looking out for themselves in this light. Absolutely. Now I want to ask you because I've noticed this quite a lot on social media, and that's the fact that men's grooming content, right? It's really dominated by a lot of the experts that in the medical field, for example, like doctors, a lot of chemists are out there, some barbers, but there's not a lot of expert generalist coverage like we see in, for example, we just talked about like the female sector of things, you know, when it comes to beauty and lifestyle. So why do you think that is?

7:53I do think that people are looking towards the experts more and more. And those experts are making themselves more available. So if you want skincare advice, okay, well, why don't you take it from the dermatologist? If you're a formulas forward person, okay, then you follow the cosmetic chemist. And so I understand that maybe someone like me who I consider myself a grand generalist, I think of myself as like 80 to 90 % of the way there in any category. And I'm the guy who can connect to the brand owners or to those experts and to make sure that the facts are right, whether I'm the one providing you those facts, or I'm just quoting someone else.

8:29And so while my role has always been very important, just in terms of finding the reader and understanding how to speak to them, I do think on social media, that the people who have really blown up are those dedicated experts. Now, that to me doesn't mean that there isn't a place for a generous like me. But I do think it underscores the importance of me not just being me on the platform. And not to make this about me, but like, let's just say, let's get in my headspace in building out Blueprint. I want to acknowledge that I am a generalist. So if you have an interest in the category at all, or in discovering the new products that are in beard and shave, in fragrance, in skincare, any of these things, or just a, you know, interesting new advancement in hair loss technology or in skincare, These are the things that you can find and that we will connect you with people who are experts in their fields to get you this coverage.

9:21And so I have to think of myself almost like a magazine in that way. Get rid of the chip on my shoulder. Be willing to be the least smart person in a lot of the conversations I'm having and be the curious person who can find that expert. I do think that there is a lot of people who don't know what they're talking about on social media. And there's a lot of people who are experts at it. And so if I can even be perceived as, you know, an 80 % of the way there person, then I'll take that. And I hope for that. But I even when I'm listening to like, fragrance experts or dermatologists in my own feed, I'm like, sometimes I feel so out of water in terms of what they know compared to what I know.

10:03But as a journalist, I always try to get my facts right. And so I do hope that someone who follows me knows that I'm going to prioritize factual, scientific-based information. And it is that journalist integrity that you can find with a lot of us generalists. I love that I think that's what is for me specifically like for myself I can only speak of myself so for me that's very valuable because I love the doctors and the chemists and all of the people out there right they're trying to educate but there is this I feel like because let me just say I grew up with the magazine era right so I'm a millennial I grew up reading magazines and for me that was the expert advice you know so I used to read like Cosmo and I would read all these magazines and I would get my advice from there and it was great and it was editors and journalists talking about very important topics that I did never felt like I was missing out you know what I mean growing up and I would love to see that kind of same culture come back in this digital era where people can feel like the person that's giving me advice even if you know it's not directly a doctor they're a person I trust and it's a voice I trust and I think that's the bottom line when it comes to good coverage.

11:16The voice that the word you just chose there is really important, I think, too, because, you know, think of all the different magazines you could have picked up as a teenager, or I'm probably the same age as you. And well, do you pick up men's health? In my case, you pick up GQ, do you pick up Esquire? Do you pick up Maxim? Like, which one do you pick up for that advice? And on the women's side, there's, you know, 10 times as many, probably. And so that is an important thing is like, who do you want to get this information from. And hopefully, a lot of people, you know, I try not to stick out too much, I do try to fit in in terms of, like my style and how I present myself in certain situations.

11:54And so I guess I have to, you know, figure out how do I stick out in the sense of getting people to stop in their scroll or follow me or sign up for my newsletter. That's that's its own thing. But I do hope that a lot of people can see themselves and can look at me and say, I can trust that guy for information and the voice that I'm providing is that of their favorite magazine. I've written for all of them at this point. So maybe I'm like the grand average of all those things. But yeah, that is something that's been in my head the last few years as we've been planning this for sure. Absolutely.

12:25No, I think that it is very, very cool that you've had that background and you're coming from a place of like, listen, I've been talking about this stuff for a while, you know? And so I think for me, if I saw your platform, I would be very keen to follow you based on that. It's like the experience there matters. And I think for a long time, this is what kind of was driving the consumers towards editorial because it was like we wanted to learn from the writers and the journalists that had been around for a while. They've seen everything. You guys have seen everything. You've seen everything on the men's side and you've seen the products and the way they work and if they work and that experience can't be replaced at the end of the day.

13:02I think that there's definitely a niche for experts in the science realm. Being a doctor myself, I think we can speak on a wide range of things. But when it comes to the experience of using products, the experience of what you can actually expect, it's very difficult to speak on those things. You know what I mean? And a big part of an editor's job is to think like the consumer or think like your audience and give them things that they will want. because I wouldn't get booked over and over by my editors if my articles weren't ultimately selling product and converting product or pleasing advertisers.

13:36And so there is a thing for these niche verticals, thinking of fragrance in particular. I was just in LA recently and went to Scent Bar. I discovered so many brands I've never even heard of there. And I just feel like a fool sometimes when I walk in these places with these experts because I think, well, gosh, even just today, I got four boxes of fragrance sent to me, individual fragrances, And they're not really the most mass market ones. But even then, I'm like, how am I missing all these small niche ones? But somebody who wants that in that small niche perspective knows that they can go to that place.

14:09And so I have to think like the consumer that just wants a guaranteed successful fragrance, doesn't want to gamble their money, maybe want something that his co-workers aren't going to be wearing. But you can come to me and there will be niche, there will be mass, there will be something at every price point. I will be thinking of everyone and trying to please everybody all at once with as many picks as possible so that you can say, well, I can throw a dart at this entire board that he has set up and I will hit a winner. And that's how we have to think we have to really think like a bunch of different consumers all at once in terms of budget and whether they're on a date or at work or whether they have acne or thick hair or curly hair.

14:46And there's a lot that goes on in your head. But you have a huge obligation when you are a grand generalist. And I think the biggest one is to your perceived guy, your reader. Right, right. No, that's very fascinating. And it actually makes me wonder because I've always wondered about this is the idea that men, from what I've observed through my life, is that when they find a product they love, they hold on to it. The consumer base is very different in the sense that I'm sure the repurchase rate in the male community for these industries is much higher than women. because I know like my fiance, he will buy the same thing over and over again.

15:25He just does not change products. Set it and forget it on Amazon or whichever the site is, right? Just the subscribe. Yeah, like auto ship. The Birchbox model, if you will. Exactly. I mean, I guess my question is like, how do you really judge what's actually going to be worth it for a guy in terms of time and money and getting to this place? What do you think are some of the biggest contributing factors to that? I think the first thing I always start with is the branding. And I don't know if that's like a guilty admission or anything else, because if something's going to sell based on them reading it in an article or seeing it on social media, it does have to look nice and it does have to look good.

16:06I think there's so many products to choose from. I genuinely think there's way too many products to choose from. And so I do think the first barrier to entry should be that it should look nice if it's going to be curated into a space of products. And, you know, there's plenty exceptions to that rule, but that is one of the biggest rules. And so from there, we can then go and look at the other aspects. For me, one of the first things I think about with men is just if he's going to repeat it, and if we want him to build a habit around it, then what is the price point? So the price point to me doesn't have to be the cheapest, but it certainly can't be the most expensive.

16:43You know, if it's a moisturizer, then I want to find something between probably 10 and 40. And I want to make sure that this guy, whoever he is, is going to feel comfortable spending the amount of money so that he can maintain this habit. So you might be thinking, wow, you're not even starting with efficacy or any of these things in bullet one or two. But one of my main things is I want to get these guys using a thing and feeling this sort of loyalty. And a lot of that has to do with branding and cost. And also sometimes if I with baked within the branding, and a lot of times within the subtext of the pitch emails I'm getting, or the conversations I'm having with these founders, I am doing little reads on do I think this brand is going to be around long enough?

17:25Or do I think if it's a brand new brand, do they have it in them to go the mile? Like, is this a brand that's going to be around in five years? The answer is usually yes, if they've made it as far as having a publicist or even, you know, being past my levels of consideration. And for what it's worth, like you can get on my radar on day one if you want. It's just sometimes I maybe look at a brand and I think like, okay, I don't know if they're ready for this kind of placement yet. And so once I work my way through there, I've tested all these products as well. I'm getting like hundreds of products a month.

17:57It's wild. And so what are my experiences with the product? And I try not to universalize all of my experiences. Luckily, I have a partner, same sex partner, and he has very opposite preferences than me. He has opposite skin type, opposite hair type. We pretty much do everything opposite. The things I like, he doesn't and vice versa. And so I have times two, the ability to test all these things and get second opinions. Or if I don't like something, I get the perspective of somebody who does and vice versa. So I am running all these things through our own experiences with the products. And also sometimes if I don't like something, I have to recognize that it just might be my preference.

18:39So what is the good in it? And can I see in a situation in which another guy might so I'm constantly having to look at things personally, but then also think of things universally, and then put all that into a big formula in my head and decide, ding, ding, ding, this product works. But I guess I'm even realizing in saying this, that a lot of it for me up front is just the branding and the price and not the advocacy at because the efficacy is only going to be felt if you're building something if you're building habit out of most of these things yes i was yeah i was just thinking that sorry no yeah but very few of these some some products are instant you know like a an antiperspirant a deodorant a fragrance like there's plenty of skincare products you know acne might take a couple days but like it might not be a 90 day shift or a 30 day shift or anything like that but in general i'm also testing so many products that sometimes for me, I'm going to the ones that I find myself wanting to use and wanting to complete.

19:40And so I'm sort of self editing as I go and saying, wow, like we went through that whole bottle despite having 40 other options that we've, you know, been testing along the way. And so that type of product just sticks in my head and probably gets 10 times the coverage of anything else. It's the stuff that I'm living with that is eventually making the cut. And that is what goes into a job like mine, where you are basically testing everything is you're just seeing like, what is standing the test of time based on all of these factors? What is clearing all of these hurdles? So I've probably lost the plot on the original question you've asked.

20:18No, no, but I love I love what you're saying. And it's so genuine, because honestly, at the end of the day, I'm sick of just like straight, like plain product reviews. You know what I mean? And that's why I think what you're doing is so wonderful and unique because Blueprint isn't about that. It's not just like straight up product reviews or anything. You're creating a multi-platform kind of space for your content where everyone can get involved. So I want to ask you, like, what is your ultimate vision for Blueprint? Like, where do you see it going in the next like 10 years, for example? Well, so we're very new, I should tell people.

20:52We launched in December and because I was traveling for work for three months, very poorly timed three months. We've been focusing heavily on big YouTube videos and weekly newsletters. And those are still the intent. However, this month, we've been able to pivot into more short form content and building a presence on social media. And my hope is that the sum of all these parts within a few years allows a I would love to hire other people to help so that we can polish things where they need to be instead of two my partner works with us works with me as well. So it's two people doing all these things from the content management on the website to building out our Yahoo Syndicate articles to shooting and videoing and editing and all of that.

21:36I would love to have a podcast where I can interview people across the field, whether they're in the industry or whether they're personalities who are wellness adjacent or anything like that. I would love to be a lot more present. I'm an expat for those who didn't already know. And I would love to have to be back in the States more and speaking at events and attending these conferences. I mean, I can think of a million different things that are lacking on the men's side. I don't know if it's necessarily a role that I need to play in changing things, but I do want there to feel like some sort of community is built around the men's grooming space as a whole.

22:13And that's my ultimate goal with Blueprint is to have other voices in the mix. So I'm not just providing my own point of view. I would love to have a bunch of writers. I would love to have them across generations and ethnicities and preferences. And I would love for there to feel like there's some sort of cohesion. You know, we have all these conventions and trade fairs for barbers, for fragrance, for the beauty industry, for all these groups. I would love for there to feel like there's one cohesive one. For grooming, I would love for all these things just to sort of coalesce around the category.

22:49And so my ultimate goal with Blueprint is just to play a pivotal role in that shift. I'm willing to let it go where it wants to go. And I would love for that to be a dozen different things. A lot of people ask me, do you want to build your own grooming brand at some point? And the answer is, if that's the road that suddenly reveals itself, then maybe. But right now, to me, a grooming brand, it could be beard and shave and hair and skin and fragrance, like which of those would it even be? And so my main priority right now is just making this a space that brands look to that they value coverage from that other writers want to write for that brands want to invest in.

23:28Let's add a bunch of exclamation marks after that, because we've sacrificed some salaries over here to build this and to make it something big. So if I can look back in 10 years and just say, Oh, that was so cute. You know, month two or three, when we were just getting a couple articles up a week, if that I would love it for it to be the complete opposite. And just to be like this factory of, of information and helpful voices and different voices all around the, you know, capital C conversation. Absolutely. I love that. I love that so much. And I think that right now is such an amazing time to do this, because there is definitely from what I'm noticing, at least there's a cultural shift definitely happening on the side of like there is more curiosity and there is more willingness to listen and to figure out what does fit for men and you know and understanding i mean i wrote for our education pieces sometimes you know we write about certain things and i one of the biggest topics for me has been like there's this distinct difference between men and women not only obviously from this medical science side but there's just a huge difference in the preferences and in the consumerism behavior and there's so many differences And I think right now is such an important time, right, for all of these industries, whether it's wellness, skincare, beauty, any of it, because there are products that are claiming like we are unisex or we're for everybody.

24:49But then you don't see the representation on the men's side. You know what I mean? You don't see like, OK, yes, this is a unisex fragrance, for example, but I'm not seeing a lot of men being drawn to it. And it just makes you wonder, like, why is that? right and i really believe it's it's because there aren't enough voices like yourself that are just out there and they're really advocating for why this actually is a good fit for most men and i think that's where i just i'm so fascinated by blueprint because i think it's going to be an immense success i think it's much needed at this point you know to have this kind of platform yeah i appreciate all that because that's exactly why blueprint exists and and i will say on the branding side of things or on the product side i do feel like in the last few years we've tried to move towards this place of pleasing everybody with everything and almost flattening things, whether that's from a product side, you know, a lot of fragrances are unisex and they should be.

25:42But then you look at the marketing and it's probably mostly often skewed towards women, especially fragrance. A lot of that is, I think, women are willing to cross over and shop for men and they're not put off by it. But the thing is, men are so easily put off by things that are marketed towards women. And so men almost need the assurance that this is for them and this is for the guy. And I roll my eyes at that a little bit. But sometimes things can just be matter of fact. And that is often why I looked at the branding. I don't love these brands that are just like bro juice or something. That's not a good brand.

26:13But like, I'm just sort of like, what? Like that is just so insecure. But it needs to feel like something that a guy will put on his sink ledge and happily use all the time. And maybe a strange parallel on the content side of things is the flattening of content. And every piece of content has, for the last few years, been trying to reach the most number of readers because of that search engine. The search engine really doesn't discern what kind of person you are unless you make it a hyper-specific search. And so we've just sort of been trying to reach everybody. And I do think with AI sort of cannibalizing a lot of that content, I do think it's going to be more and more important to choose your target and to point your content at that person.