How Mindfulness Helps Heal Your Inner Child With Dr. Leah Katz

0:00Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy. This is Mindset Monday and I'm super excited about our guest today. She is a clinical psychologist. She's an author. She specializes in working with teenagers and adults and has a focus on treating anxiety as well as complex trauma and also relationship struggles. Dr. Katz has an extensive background in mindfulness and how to incorporate mindfulness in the therapeutic work that she does. So without further ado, please welcome Dr. Leah Katz. Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here. I'd love to chat with you about, what got you into psychology?

0:36And I know you're very multifaceted with your expertise in the field, but I'd love to learn a little bit about you. What got you into the field and really sparked your interest? Thanks. That's a great question. It's always fun to reflect back on how I got started because with more time that passes, it feels more and more in the distance. So let's see. I think the way that I really got into psychology was when I was in undergraduate, I was getting my degree in psychology, but I wasn't sure if I wanted to become a clinical psychologist. I had some other options. And then I just had some really great teachers who I looked up to and I did some internships and volunteer positions with them.

1:10And I really just fell in love with the field of psychology. And I think pairing that together with knowing some people in my own life who are struggling with different mental health issues and watching them meet people who really help them. I think it was just a combination of like those two things that really made me choose back then that this is what I wanted to do. That's so cool. Yeah, no, I feel like mental health for a long time, like now it's different, right? Everyone's like, kind of becoming more verbal and like, you know, outspoken about it. But I know when I was in medical school, we barely got any education, you know, when it came to, I mean, we learned the entire DSM-5, but we never learned about like, you know, truly like what is cognitive behavioral therapy?

1:52Like, what are the different techniques? We didn't dive into any of that, you know? Wow. Wow. It's so interesting. And it's really cool to see how things are changing, isn't it? You know, like those of us who are raising kids, just like there's such a different language and comfort around talking about mental health, which is really hopeful. It's nice to see. Absolutely. Now, I want to, you know, ask you because I know that mindfulness is really kind of become a buzzword these days in a great way, I think. I think it's very awesome that people are talking about mindfulness, but I think it's also misunderstood, you know, in terms of just people often slur it with meditation or just relaxation techniques.

2:26How do you define mindfulness in the context of mental health and just overall emotional resilience? Yeah, I mean, the way that I use mindfulness is learning to pay attention more and more because none of us can pay attention all the time in the moment to what's unfolding within us with compassion and non-judgment. So I think it's the pairing of those two things. It's being able to pay attention, notice what's happening, but in a very compassionate way. And I think that you're right. Like I see it get misunderstood a lot. And I think, well, one of the pieces of it that's so powerful is that when we bring that into our life, even just a little bit more, it can really transform how we're living and how we feel about ourselves and how brave we are and the decisions that we make.

3:07So it's something that's impacted my own life profoundly. And I use it a lot in the clinical work that I do with my patients. yeah it's very fascinating actually because i think that we i mean i know for myself i've very often overlooked the power of true mindfulness you know and like kind of sitting with myself and working through things internally i mean i i for a long time like i think many of us you know i was a believer in like well just keep going you know no matter what just keep going avoid whatever happens in a way you know subconsciously almost like it's just like we just have this i think culture in the West where we're all just on hyperdrive mode, you know, and we never pause and think.

3:48Yeah. And the term that I use for that is it's white knuckling. Like that's so many of us are trained to white knuckle. Like it's just kind of like we put our hands on the edge of our seats and put our heads down and just get through it. And it's such a hard, harsh way to live. And mindfulness helps create a little bit of softness where we could lighten up our grip on the chair, where we can pay attention to what's happening and then find our way back to ourselves so that we can make more informed and kinder choices. Yeah, I can definitely see that. Now, one of the things that's always intrigued me is like, I guess, childhood trauma in a way, you know, I think a lot of times we can blame things on the way that we grew up, right?

4:23Or like something that might have happened in our childhood. I know that you, you know, you worked a lot with adolescents, you know, as well as adults. And can you break down, you know, what healing the inner child actually means when we think about it. Yeah. Such a good question and such a, such a big question. I work with a lot of people who've had complex trauma and what complex trauma is, is like an ongoing series of, of events that happen when we're younger, whether it's abuse or neglect that people go through that culminate in this complex trauma. And oftentimes it's, it's a little harder to treat and a little for the person who's experiencing it harder for them to put their finger on what's happening because they're doing okay.

5:05They're getting by okay, but then there are things that are coming up in their relationships that are really hard or they get triggered really easily, or they just don't understand certain parts of themselves and why certain parts of their life or certain parts of their relationships just feel so hard for them. So the work that I do, and I love working with people who've gone through this because it's so powerful to start understanding how, where we've been is impacting our presence. So I like to call It's like connecting the dots, you know? It's like, oh, that's why this argument with my spouse or my partner feels so triggering for me because this thing happened to me over and over again when I was a child.

5:38It makes me feel unimportant. And that it's the young me that's responding in the moment, not adult me, you know? So when my partner does this thing or they look away and then I feel really triggered, it's because there's a young me who's living inside of me who experienced that response as unsafe. because when we're young and our caregivers are neglecting us or not emotionally attuned, it really is an issue of safety because we need them to be there for us in that kind of way. And then when we get to adulthood, we think we're okay, but all of a sudden we find these parts of us that need attention, that need more healing.

6:09And so I think it's a beautiful, tender work. Yeah, no, that's really fascinating. And you know, this actually makes me think a lot about, like, I think we've entered like a phase where a lot of people are now kind of self-diagnosing themselves personality disorders and this always makes me wonder right because when we talk about childhood situations that have led to our behavioral patterns now as adults i think it's it's really a kind of a slippery slope right i mean because now we have all these personality disorders that have like kind of been defined right in dsm-5 icd-10 i mean we list them as you know for example borderline is one of my favorite ones to talk about because borderline And I think it's very misunderstood.

6:51And I'd love to get your opinion on this about people out there that might believe that they have a personality disorder, but maybe they haven't been to like a, you know, like a professional that's actually diagnosed them. Like, what are your thoughts on that in terms of understanding the difference between, you know, you have childhood trauma, you need to deal with it versus, no, you have a full-flex personality disorder? Right, right. Again, another really great question. And I think that like at the heart of that question and the heart of the answer is really kind of thinking about like diagnosis.

7:23And that's like an age old debate amongst mental health practitioners. Like what is it? Does it benefit us to have diagnoses? Is it more of a detriment to have diagnoses? And I think that like when we understand it correctly, it can both help us, but also like within limitations, because a diagnosis is helpful in terms of understanding a pattern of behavior and understanding how to treat it and what kinds of things might be helpful. But when we get really pigeonholed in the diagnosis and like that's all it is, it can feel too rigid and we're not getting at the complexity that's there. And maybe we're not addressing enough of the causes of what led to that pattern of behavior, if that makes sense.

8:00So I think that the way that I approach this stuff is it's layers and it's multifaceted. And I think that there can be benefits in giving something a name, but we also wanna dig deeper and understand how maybe we develop certain traits or patterns and what can we do to help ourselves heal. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, actually, because it never settled well with me to just label something as a personality disorder, especially if it's not like a striking definition bound example of an individual. Right. That was something like I've never really understood. And I know it can be very tricky for professionals.

8:38Psychology is a very gray area in a lot of ways. And so, you know, I know it can be a very slippery slope, but for example, I want to talk about anxiety a little bit with you, because I think this is something a lot of people struggle with, you know, these days, especially I see it all over TikTok. I see it all over social media where everyone is now speaking about everyday anxiety. I guess, would you call that generalized anxiety then that, you know, what we're seeing a lot of, you know, everywhere is like people, it's generalized anxiety, right? I, well, yeah, I think that there's, I, I, it's another one of those words that people, you know, like there's like, like we were talking about before mindfulness, like it's become a catch word and it's understood in so many different ways.

9:17And I think that like when we see anxiety and social media gets used in a lot of different ways. And then as someone who's a clinician, I think to myself, well, there's clinical anxiety and that's, you know, there's a definition and criteria to meet that. And generalized anxiety is a form of anxiety, but there's lots of other forms of anxiety. So I think that, you know, yeah, I mean, I think it gets used in a lot of different ways because there's also anxiety that's unspecified. So generalized anxiety is a pattern of behavior where someone just experiences pervasive anxiety, pervasive worry about like a lot of different things.

9:48But sometimes it's a little bit more specific than that. Right. No, I love that you said that because I think that that's very important to understand is that there are subtypes, you know, in this category. It's not just like anxiety. Anxiety can mean a lot of different things. So I'd actually, I'd love to dive into that actually. What is your approach to helping people shift, you know, in terms of how they're engaging with their anxiety? Yeah. So I love another, that's another population that I love working with. I love working with people who have anxiety and oftentimes people who have had complex trauma also have anxiety, but sometimes it's just its own thing and there doesn't have to be trauma there.

10:24And I think that it's, I've been practicing now for many years. So along the way you pick up different techniques and trainings and you kind of blend your own style. And that's where I am right now with how I approach anxiety. So I think that a big piece of working with anxiety, the first piece probably is helping the person understand like what's happening for them. Because sometimes people come in and they don't even know that what they're experiencing is anxiety. Even like now, a lot of people don't understand that there's such a big somatic physical component to experiencing anxiety. So just talking about it, but then there's also like the cognitive behavioral work where you can get at the thoughts and talk to the thoughts and reframe the thought so that you have more rational thinking.

10:59And then there's mindfulness-based work, which is also so helpful. And that's just learning to notice and observe your experience. Kind of like, you know, when we were kids and you're lying on your back in the park and you see the clouds passing you by and you watch the clouds come and go. And it's helping people really experience that kind of feeling towards their thoughts and their emotions so that they don't feel so like they're leading them around, you know, like that they feel like they're the ones who are in control. So there's a lot of different ways of working with anxiety. Yeah, that's really fascinating, actually.

11:28I have really bad anxiety. I guess you could say I was diagnosed with panic disorder a long time ago. So for me, anxiety has been a lifelong thing, you know, and I don't know, it's crazy. I've read so many books about it. And, you know, it's so different because I know people like colleagues, friends, you know, people I've met, and they're like, yeah, yeah, you know, I've got anxiety as well. And it's like, we all talk about this topic, right? And then it comes out that everyone is different, you know, it's manifesting differently for everybody. it's so exactly it's so interesting and it's like it's kind of cool isn't it like that like there's like it's a venn diagram like there's ways that make it distinct there's ways that make it similar there's things in our past you know like that contribute to it or not you know like sometimes it's really just genetic and it's the way that you're wired and the way that you're born and how we were raised doesn't have a lot to do with it but sometimes it does and so like the therapy and the healing looks very different exactly going back to mindfulness how can we utilize mindfulness and mindfulness techniques to really navigate these moments of like super high anxiety without like spiraling into things like self-judgment, self-criticism, you know, these kind of aspects.

12:33Yeah, I think that, well, there are like a few things come to mind right off the bat, but one thing that can be so helpful is learn, and it sounds simple, but it's harder than it sounds and it's more helpful than it sounds. It's learning to really just notice the thoughts. So oftentimes what happens is we're having an overwhelming feeling. I like to call it like a big wave feeling, whether it's big anxiety or big anger, big something, we get really like taken, like the feeling just washes over us and that's where we're leading from. But if we can change our relationship to the experience of it right now, I'm here, I'm in my body and I'm just watching this feeling of anxiety.

13:07I'm noticing my thoughts. They have automatically less power and less control over us. Now we're the one who's making the next decision and not our anxiety. So just noticing like the thoughts and the negative self-talk and being, oh, I'm having a thought and that thought is saying this, or right now I'm experiencing this feeling. It really, it's like popping a bubble, diffuses it. So that's, that's one way that mindfulness can be really helpful. And another, and I kind of said this in what I just said, but just to emphasize, because it's so helpful is learning to get present in our bodies. So oftentimes what happens when we're consumed by a big feeling is we're like really in our heads and we're disconnected from our bodies and our bodies are so tense and we're so tense, we don't even realize it.

13:46But if we can notice it happening like that first step and then take a different path, like just really notice like one personal favorite that I like to do when I'm feeling anxious is I feel my feet on the floor. So just notice the sensation of my feet on the floor. We could even do this together now if you want to, because there's something just like very grounding about it. Yeah. Yeah. The temperature that's here, noticing ourselves being held by the floor and ultimately the earth. So noticing the body is a great way of centering and getting out of the spin of anxiety. This is really cool. I'm doing it right now.

14:17This feels great. It's like, it's very grounding. Yeah, it's very grounding. That's really cool. Yeah. And it's like, it's like a cool one because it's literally grounding. Like we're literally like noticing our feet on the floor, on the ground, you know? And so it's like, okay, I'm here and I'm planted on this earth. And there might even be a little bit of like a spiritual component, right? Like I'm here amongst like all the things that are grounded here on this earth, you know, and yeah, it's nice. It's a good one. It's very meditative. Yeah, I really enjoy this. Yeah, I'm glad you showed me this.

14:43This is really cool. I could do this like through my day. I have like, you know, I personally speaking, I have, you know, like these things where it is what you said, you know, these things come over you and it's all of a sudden and you don't know what to do in that moment because it's like all of the emotions and it's not just, you know, when people talk about anxiety, they, I think they kind of mislabel it, right? Because they're like, oh, you're having like almost like the panic side of the symptoms, right? Where you're getting sweaty and you're, you know, heart racing and whatever. But sometimes it's just all of those thoughts, you know, in your head that just keep coming up.

15:16Yeah, it's very interesting. Now, one of the, you know, I think one of the biggest roadblocks, you know, that individuals we all experience in terms of our growth is our inner dialogue, you know, the way we speak to ourselves, the way we, you know, kind of perceive ourselves from the inside. How, I mean, I would love your, you know, insight in this in terms of how our inner voice actually does shape our overall mental health and how we approach it. That's something that I've done so much work on in myself and is such a big component of therapy work because we are hugely impacted by how we talk to ourselves.

15:51And without really doing mindfulness work, most of us are not even aware of how we're talking to ourselves, how harsh it could be. I wrote this in my book, but it's like such a powerful anecdote that I was on my very first mindfulness retreat over a decade ago. And there was a silent portion. It was a seven day retreat. And like some of those days we had to be in silence. Like you couldn't talk to anyone. You couldn't make eye contact with anyone. And it was such a good opportunity for me for the first time in my whole life where I was able to really notice like the constant stream of thoughts in my mind and how harsh it was.

16:22Like I remember washing my hands in the bathroom and looking in the mirror and like just catching the thoughts of like, oh gosh, like more wrinkles or you need to lose weight or, and like without the opportunity to be silent, I don't think I would have realized like how pervasive those thoughts were. And then like by default, like how they were making me feel like if you're having those thoughts all the time, you're not going to feel so good about yourself. So I think just noticing how we're talking to ourselves and without judgment. So it's not like we're judging ourselves for judging ourselves, but is there a way to, to make it more loving, right?

16:53Can we let it go? Can we have more gratitude for our bodies? Can we thank our bodies? Can we like thank the fact that we're here to get another wrinkle? And, you know, like that kind of work can be really powerful. Absolutely. And that's really interesting that you said silence because, you know, I read a lot of books, right, about when I first got into mindfulness, I got really into the self-help, you know, sector of, you know, literature. And I read a lot of things by like Eckhart Tolle, Abraham Hicks, Wayne Dyer, and I was really into it and one of the things I think that was most profound was kind of what you're saying here where you know I think Eckhart Tolle was talking about this but when you silence your mind you start to actually become the observer of what you're talking about you know and it does happen and I remember very distinct I remember this I was in my bathroom one day this is the first time it happened for me where I was like it's all it's like almost like an outer body thing that happens where you just you do start looking at yourself as this third person and it's like it's kind of crazy like that because you start to see your mind for like the kind of child that it is you know it's acting in a very you know like uh reactive way you know every thought is very reactive and then it spirals on itself you know so exactly and it's so quick yeah it's very quick you know and I want to get your opinion about you know if we've been doing this right because most of us have been doing this most of our lives where this you know negative self-talk negativity creativity internally.

18:19I mean, it's just an ongoing battle. I feel like that's been there since we've become adults. How do we approach changing that pattern, you know, now that we're adults? Yeah. Another good, good question. And I think, again, a lot of it comes back to noticing. And then this is what's helped me so much. And something that I practice a lot in the therapy, it's learning to practice self-compassion. Self-compassion can look like, which is, it's interesting to think of it this way, but when you catch yourself talking negatively to yourself, it's not, let me just like push this thought away or let me create a new thought.

18:53The first piece is saying something like, Ooh, that's a hard thought that hurts. You know, like where we learn to talk to ourselves in a way that we would talk to our loved ones or a best friend for the very thoughts that are making us feel bad about ourselves. So, Oh, it's hard. It's hard that I'm having this thought that really hurts, you know, and maybe a part of self-compassion is reminding ourselves that we're not alone on this journey. Like what you just said, I think it's very powerful. So many people struggle with this. It's not just me. And how can I move into more loving self-talk? And maybe this is just like a really nice concrete question to ask yourself.

19:28If I were talking to my best friend or giving advice to someone I loved, like what would that sound like? And can I, sometimes it's really concrete. Can I just say that out loud to myself? Can I look myself in the eyes and say those reassuring, loving words to myself over and over again until like they start to take a little bit more of a hold. Yeah, no, see, that's the thing is like, I always wonder about this, because I think that, you know, I know I've struggled with this, where when you're trying to do something that's, you know, like, kind of reprogramming, right, the way your inner dialogue is, it's almost like you don't believe yourself at first.

20:02Like, it's like you're listening to someone, like, tell you things that you're just like, yeah, whatever, you know, like, I don't believe, you know, yeah. And that's a piece of it that, and I think like, that's also like understanding that we're made up of parts. There's a part of me that's having a really hard time or protesting this loving self-talk. Can I hold that part of me, right? Like that part of me needs some love. Like that's so hard that I have a part of me that doesn't want to be talked lovingly to. Maybe there's another part of me that I can tap into that does believe it or is more on board with this, you know?

20:32So I think that that's a piece of it too it's like we all have different parts you know so we don't have to convince all of us about everything because that takes you know that's not that's gonna take a long time but maybe there's a part of me that like that does believe it and I can hold the part of me that doesn't if that makes sense it does it really does now in terms of you know I really liked what you had me do earlier you know in terms of like putting my feet on the floor kind of grounding myself that was really helpful and I'd love for you to offer some more simple but doable practices that we can kind of start working on, like right now, if we wanted to, you know, just everyday stuff that really helps and makes an impact on this journey.

21:08Yeah, so something I do multiple times a day is like the body awareness. So it's feet on the floor. Can I feel it? Not think about it. See, this is where people get lost sometimes. It's not thinking about it. Can I just feel the sensations that are there? Feel what they're making contact with? Can I feel my back in my chair? Paying attention to our muscles, like our, you know, how high are my shoulders? Oftentimes when we're stressed and anxious, it's like our shoulders get really high or we're like not actually even really breathing, right? Like we're like breathing not as often as we need to.

21:34Can I take some deeper breaths? So bringing an awareness to that, I think can be so helpful. And then I had some other ones, but they just, they just split my mind in terms of like practical mindfulness ideas. No, it's okay. Because I think it's also daily habits too, right? Because that's also why I asked you is about like, just daily things. Because I mean, I think, you know, when it comes to a routine, I'm a huge believer in routines. Like I think that they can like make or break your life. Like I genuinely believe that. And I think when it comes to mental health, we all should have kind of like a mental hygiene routine.

22:07Right. So like, what are some things, you know, that you've seen that might be great habits to incorporate in our lives? I mean, when it comes to overall mental wellbeing. Yeah. I mean, I think that there's, it's subjective and it's finding the things that make you feel connected to yourself, connected to other people and like give you a sense of purpose and meaning. So like, that's kind of like how I would sum it up. And it looks different for different people. I think there are some that like are just kind of like work for all of us, like nature is really powerful and is such a important piece, like to work through stress, anxiety, find healing, making sure that we're spending some time every day looking at nature, being in nature could be small, right?

22:46Like it could even be like, just like looking out your window and like noticing the trees that are outside your window and moving our bodies is another one going for walks or exercise. Like I said before, social support is so important, having people that we talk to. And this is the thing that gets misunderstood about social support is that because I'll say, I'll talk about this on social media sometimes. And understandably, people are like, well, I don't have any good friends or I do feel lonely right now. Social support isn't only like the deep connections we have with people can also just be like smiling at the person who's checking you out at the grocery store or going to the dog park and saying hi to like another dog owner um just feeling connected to other people can be really powerful absolutely I love that you said the smiling part because I feel like that's something that I've always noticed that like I don't know if anyone listening out there's like can relate to this but whenever someone smiles at you when you're just doing something random like like you said at the grocery store or like we're at the park you know it just brightens your moment you know it's completely transformative it really changes yeah yeah it changes energy it's amazing it's amazing to see how there are these like little things that we can do not only for ourselves but also each other you know that really do make an impact you know on overall and right now especially you know i always think about this because i was reading some statistic a while back about how people are right now are just reporting to be lonelier than ever you know And I'd love to, like, what are your thoughts on that?

24:12Like, why do you think people are more lonely right now, more so than ever? Yeah, I mean, I've heard it be described as a loneliness epidemic. And I think some thoughts behind it are like COVID threw us all for a loop and like really was a big catalyst and just creating separation and loneliness. And there's that piece. But also, as we know, and I'm sure a lot of people who are listening have heard this or thought about this, you know, before, but it's social media and our phones and how connected we are to our devices and how that really makes us feel disconnected from the people around us. You know, like I said, the dog park example before night, we have a dog and we take our dog sometimes to the dog park.

24:48And it's interesting, you look around sometimes and like, everyone's kind of just like sitting on a bench. Not everyone, a lot of people are sitting on a bench and like looking at their phones, you know? And I think that experience is so relatable in so many different venues. So that's the tough one. And so maybe like, if you're listening to this and it resonates for you, and I try this for myself too, can we just like put the phone down or sometimes I'll even just go for walks and just like leave the phone at home so I'm more available to see to experience the walk but then to say hi to the people that I'm passing by and I think those small little tweaks can really change a lot absolutely I love the phone thing because I think that's such a it's so difficult for all of us you know well I know like I've literally made this statement before I'm like I could literally run my whole life with my phone You know, I don't even need a computer anymore.