Identity, Chemistry, and the Scent of Storytelling with Matteo Parfums

0:00Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy. This is a great way to the special episode. I'm very very excited for the guest that we have with us today because he's truly a genius of his craft. He's an award-winning perfumer and the CEO of Mateo Perfume. So please welcome Matthew Sanchez. Welcome, Matt. I'm so excited to be hosting you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited. Yeah, no, I'm excited. Jeez, I can't wait to talk to you and learn from you, actually, because, I mean, like I said, you know, you really are so, so gifted in what you do and what you create, you know. The fragrances that I've experienced, you know, Celadon and Lovers Do have just been breathtaking and they're so beautiful.

0:39So I can't wait to dive into that, Matt, but I want to learn about you. Can you tell us about where everything started for you with fragrance? Like, when did you know that you wanted to go into this as like a career and all the good stuff? Yeah. Well, first and foremost, thanks for the wonderful words. I'm like smiling and blushing. It means a lot, especially since I'm not what many would call classically trained, right? Right. You go through a lot of trial and error and a lot of what is the word imposter syndrome. Right. And just dealing with your own creative blocks. So it is pretty cool to hear such kind words coming from people like you in the market and the audience in the world when they do appreciate something you put out into, you know, into the wild.

1:22To answer your question, I actually didn't know perfumery was even a career option or a choice, which sounds silly and naive. But my family background, you know, they really stressed education and more formal types of career titles we all may be familiar with. Right. So things like, you know, pursuing becoming a doctor or a lawyer or, you know, policeman or firefighter. Right. Like those types of titles we hear all the time. And that's pretty much the route I was kind of pursuing when I started. that was out in the DC area, starting my career in banking and really was just not too thrilled with it.

2:03It's not a job for me. And I'm very left-brained, very right-brained. I love when I can mix, like use my whole brain, I'll say. So what that means is I'm very creative and artistic, but I'm also very capable of doing the more quantitative things, the more logical things, the more structural things, right? And so I was scratching that part of myself, of my brain, working in banking and finance, but I wasn't getting that creative outlet that I desperately needed and craved. And so the famous story is I was new to the city. And whenever you're new anywhere, you have to find like a new right person to, you know, cut your hair and your new favorite restaurants.

2:47Settle down again. Yep, exactly. Exactly. And that was my story. I went to a new dentist and in their waiting room were some magazines. I opened up one magazine. It had an article about 10 perfumers and their famous creations. And that piqued my interest because I never even really heard of the word perfumer. And this is in 2017. And I'm reading that article and it was cool. They put a face to these bottles that I was aware of. You know, I from a very fragrant household. I grew up with my parents wearing, you know, cologne and perfume. And I just come from a multicultural background as well. So very fragrant, very vivid, very colorful.

3:28So fragrance was not foreign to me at all. It's so embedded. And it was just so cool to see that there was human beings creating the things that you and I wear. And I never even put two and two together so then one tagline from one of the perfumers interviewed mentioned that it was they knew it was the career for them because it was a true and I quote a true art and a science and that was what captivated me yeah I love what you said I love what you said though I just wanted to touch on it that you do come from this math background I find that to be so fascinating about you because because what you said really struck a nerve with me that combination of art and science and I feel like that's like the like that's it right like that's the end goal for anyone who loves science anyone who loves like anything that's you know like computational whatever it might be right when it comes to science or math that's like the end goal you want to find this way to combine them but so I really love that you came from that place when you entered this space you know thank you Yeah, it's been a goal of mine.

4:33I kid you not. I feel like such a little kid sometimes, full of amazement and wonder, because I don't know how familiar you are with the Marvel series, but I looked up to fictional characters like Tony Stark, Iron Man, and kind of being this brainiac dude who's still super cool, but does get to do the technological, creative stuff. um so that was a goal for me I'm like hey how can I be sort of like that right and here fragrance has provided an outlet and a form for me to do that absolutely no that's really cool and I I like that you're you know you come from it from single because I think that some of the most beautiful things and you know this is across the board I see that when you really are able to bring this like training and whatever it might be like whether it's mathematics or like a scientific discipline or anything that's just more structured, right?

5:30I mean, you gave the right brain, left brain analogy earlier. I mean, when you bring this level of structure to something that is fully creative, you know, it just, something beautiful happens, you know, but it has to be done the right way in a way that really means something to you. I've seen a lot of people do this with like, you know, we have AI now where everyone's trying to feed everything into AI and create, you know, like this hybrid version of what we're talking about, but it just doesn't happen like that, You know, unique way of being creative is to be that way, you know, so I have a lot of respect for that.

6:02And I think for anyone listening, when you actually try the perfumes in the collection, you'll know what I mean. It kind of comes across, you know, very, very quickly. But I want to ask you a little bit about that. You know, that's what I'm talking about is like, when did you realize that, you know, this was what you wanted to do, where you wanted to blend, you know, this like, the structure that you got from your classical training in math and engineering, and you wanted to blend that, like, what were the first thoughts that came to mind in terms of the creativity aspect? Yeah, oh, I love, love, love, love, love this question, because I haven't really thought of it so thoroughly.

6:40Like, for me, it's a combination of things that started, like, flagging to me that this is probably the route I want to go, and I should pursue. So the first being that longing, right, that craving I had mentioned very early on where, hey, I'm a fresh graduate, I'm in a new city, new life, new friends, new everything, and I'm still feeling this hole, right, this gap, and I need to figure out a way to do this to be kind of happy since I'm in this new strange land, right, and fragrance was kind of the welcome mat to that. It was this warm welcome to being, okay, you are in a new place and you really grow when you're outside of your comfort zone.

7:23That's something I wholeheartedly believe in. And so, you know, I was already being challenged that way in life, but now I wanted to be challenged in that way in a career where I wasn't necessarily enamored with the, what's the word, the rat race or, you know, the climbing the corporate ladder, the very traditional way very quickly. I mean, it was a matter of months. I moved out there come summertime because I graduated in June, moved out there in July, and literally come September, October, I'm like, I can't keep doing this for much, much longer. I don't know how adults are doing this. And I'm very blessed and fortunate that I discovered this come October.

8:092017 is when Matteo Perfumes was born I like to say because it was quickly after I read that article that then I got uh really swooped in into watching any fragrant video I could find reading all literature and documentation I could get my hands on listening about formulas and different oils and I'm like oh I really want to do this not even as a career at that point I was just wanted to do it as I'm as an activity, as that outlet. And as I was doing that research, as I was doing that studying, I want to say come holiday season now, so December, let's say, so a few months after that, that's when it really clicked on me like, wow, people are making a living out of doing this, and they get to do this every single day.

9:00How can I do this, right? It was like stars have aligned, I found my art and my science. I get to do something that combines both business and the tech to it or the more engineering type things to it. And I can create something and I could be part of something that is larger than me. And you could kind of make a name for yourself or try to. And you can expand the current narrative and the fabric that we currently consume. Because at that time, if you really think about it, 2017, 2018, there really was not much, at least well known, of fragrances that were kind of highlighting other type cultures or other sub stories.

9:42Yeah, there was nothing. There was nothing. Yeah. Right, right. And that's not to say it's bad. It's just my eye opened up to the fact that this was probably yet another industry and STEM industry, which it is, that could really benefit from the addition of different stories, right? And diverse stories and diverse usage of even materials and the models we use and the marketing and the scent profiles, like what your inspiration is, while still coming across authentically. And so I always try with Mateo perfumes to bring that art and science in a very authentic way, in a very genuine manner that, A, we're going to give you these very whimsical and sophisticated clean scents that you're just not really going to get fined, you know, on the market or at your public retailer.

10:39because that's what makes niche fragrance so special and and it's why we're growing so much the fascination and attraction to indie and niche fragrance uh niche fine fragrance specifically has like skyrocketed since covid i believe um yeah you see the well rightfully so though i mean that's i mean it's totally my jam you know niche fragrance is where it's at for me because i feel like fragrance and i i think i said this like in another episode but it's very true like where fragrance I really truly to my core believe that it needs to be an individualized experience that you have you know what I mean it's not about like you see so much now on social media which unfortunately I have to consume it for my market research you know what I mean but like I I'm always like doom scrolling and I'm like watching people just like douse themselves right in this like very like monotonous like scent whatever that might be whether it's like you know something sweet or whatever they like.

11:40And it's just, for me, it's baffling because I grew up as a millennial. And I remember back like when we were starting to play around with perfume, right? And understanding like, oh, you do have to have your scent that you connect with. And this is like your signature, right? Like that concept as it was developing for me in like adolescence, it kind of rooted this idea that like, you don't want to smell like everybody else. You don't want to walk around feeling like you're part of this machine that's just floating around all the time you know like it's you want to be individualized and like and that when I look at social media now I'm just I don't even know what to say you know it's like why are people doing this and so when you said that it I mean that really triggers something for me where it's like you know you have to have something very unique because you're not just wearing a scent you're wearing creativity and you're expressing yourself through that so yeah I want you to continue because I think your scents are truly remarkable in that way and I'd love for you to talk about I mean if you could get us started with Celadon like what made you create this and like where was your head at when you were thinking of it yeah this is a great segue thank you thank you because like everything you're saying is resonating right like I am a new fragrance you know brand I'm a new perfumer I you know I am our perfumer and so when I thought about our first scent I kind of thought I took the approach of maybe like a musical artist, right?

13:04If you're creating your debut album, what tracks do you put on it to really introduce yourself to the world, right? I was doing the same thing with Celadon. I really thought long and hard, okay, if this is your first scent you're putting out to the world, the market, what do you want it to smell like? What feels authentic to you? What would be obviously, you know, unique and really capture your story. And so when it boiled down to it, I thought, well, that would be me. Like, you know, I may not be everyone's cup of tea, but that's better than being everybody's coffee is the saying, right? And so with Celadon, I wanted to take that daring approach to create something that I felt was a great embodiment of me, but may not be everyone's favorite thing.

13:51And that's absolutely okay, right? Like some scent is just there to be appreciated and maybe not eyewear, right? Maybe it's not for me, but you can appreciate and be like, well, I truly have not smelled that before. I truly see this being, you know, a statement fragrance, something like that. I wanted to wow and I wanted to really show off the creativity of it. So, you know, quickly with Celadon, that's the mindset I had. And so the best way I can capture that was looking into my own multi-ethnic heritage so for people who aren't aware I'm coming from a mixed background I am Ghanaian American and Mexican American for my mom and my dad so West African and Latin and some Mediterranean influences all went into creating Celadon so with Celadon are kind of a hook node or defining thing that kind of made us stand out when you smell it, you'll know what I'm talking about is I created the fragrance industry's first horchata amber accord.

14:57So for listeners who are familiar with horchata, you know, it's that milky, cinnamony, ricey milk drink from Mexico that is absolutely delicious. We consume it everywhere in California. And it was just such a great smell and experience for me and pour it to my childhood and something I still carry through now. And I was inspired by the gourmand kind of accords and scents we smell in other fragrances, right? And I thought, wow, I've never smelled an horchata. I don't think anyone would think of horchata because if you think of the makeup of the people currently in fragrance, there'd be no reason for them to, right?

15:38And they're all France or Italy or, you know, these places where it wouldn't be a staple. And so it would also feel disingenuine if they were to create that out of nowhere. And here I was, I'm like, okay, I want to create the Orchata Amber. So I included that. You have some Sicilian blood orange in it. And then I'm taking some herbs and some woods and resins from Africa to really create this unique concoction that is Celadon. It's ambery, it has a spiced citrus note, and you get the Mexican vanilla and it burns down into a really beautiful it includes a beautiful uh cedar wood and that was our defining creation that was our debut scent it then opened up so many doors as I think you know um it was nominated for our first ever industry award which then really kind of let people in on ourselves as a brand and that led into our second set I love this this fragrance so much Matt because I feel like yeah it's so I love that you created something new by the way I love that you brought that new um you know that newness out in the industry that's you know half soft that's huge in itself but you know also but I love that you brought culture forward you know this is something that you know for me it hits home very deeply because I'm Indian and I like you had said this very early on where you know perfumery and fragrance started in places like India and you know Egypt and Mediterranean there's so much history there that anyone who who smells this like you're gonna and lets it linger you know you'll immediately feel like what I think everybody who's grown up in like a very rich diverse background when you go home and you have certain scents that will never leave you you know what I mean like they're just it's like a part of home and that's what this feels like for me you know when I smell it when it finally it when it finally evolves for me on my skin like it just it's something I want to smell when I want to feel comfort like that home comfort you know and and I don't feel like you could bring that out if you hadn't created something brand new you know with orchata and like everything that you explained I don't think you would have been able to do that because it is like it's so unique in that way you know where there's nothing else like it so it really comes through that you you know poured yourself into this one that's amazing and let me tell you I'm just smiling like cheek to cheek because it is so cool to hear this and I love what you said like it feels like home which is by the way one of the highest compliments ever right like that comfort that feels so great and you know what I love about this and I love about fragrance is that it feels so homey and comfortable to you and I wasn't even necessarily using things from a particular geographical region of like Asia or or you know or uh India yet it still feels so it we're all connected is what I'm trying to say like in some way, right?

18:35Like, yeah, yeah. I, one of my customers last year, she met me in person, we were in New York, and she's of Persian descent. And she would, she had to stop me, we're on the street. And she was like, I just have to tell you, Celadon feels like home to me. It smells like the attar that we would have at this place. And I'd be at my grandma's house doing blah, blah, blah. And it was so cool, because I'm like, wow, I've never been to even Iran I have not been to these areas but it smelled so familiar and comforting but with a unique spin to it or you know a unique take to it that made her be like man I like had to buy bottles because I haven't been able to smell this and like I only smell it when I do travel there and here you are bringing it here to the state and it's this story so I just wanted to shout that out no I'm glad you did because I don't know if it's like I can tell you from my end I don't know if because you put saffron in here you know and you use saffron or what but like a lot of like I know growing up there were a lot of like Indian sweets that my mother would make at home and they were very milk-based right but they always had saffron as like almost like a garnish and it was just something that lingered you know like it lingered all day after even after you were done in the kitchen you were in your room and that's where I feel like it isn't just about like bringing culture forward like you could make a scent if I if you and I sat down I said I want something that reminds me of like India, right?

19:59Like you could make that, but you, you've picked things that are like universal, you know, they're just part of culture. Like it's just, yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah. No, this is amazing. I'm blessed. Yeah. I'm glad you got that piece. That's really one of my sub goals for that was I still wanted to be able to make people feel united in a sense and they are universal, right? Like saffron is ubiquitously used. Um, I love saffron And you're right, it does linger. And I'm glad you pick it up in Celadon. And so I'm really trying to do that with all of our stuff that we end up launching and creating and being very intentional and mindful and purposeful about it, right?

20:38When it comes to even our second set, which just launched last year, lovers do. it again it's like how do you creatively think about new things Matt right and for me at that point in time I was still really and I'm still I am still this way really I'm a big history buff and I love appreciating where we're coming from but also trying to give shine or highlight to maybe things and places and individuals and cultures that continue to maybe be underestimated or glossed over, right? And doing it still uniquely with some heritage and culture to it. So I looked to my own, once again, Mexican background.

21:20And I was thinking about a trend we happen to see in skincare, for instance, recently was Ayurvedic skincare. And really going back to like roots and ancient rituals, which I think is important, right? There is a reason why these things have like permeated through years and have such cultural significance that I was thinking of it in that manner for fragrance. Like, what is that for fragrance? And what does that look like? And then I took it one step deeper and was like, well, what would that look like for some of the ancient civilizations that maybe are not here right now in contemporary times as the same kind of empires that did persist so what I mean by that is like we know that the Roman Empire and current Italy has its you know has its current influence on modern world same with the Greek or the French or the English heck I'm speaking English to you right now right right exactly these things have been able to last or take the test of time I believe that's the saying?

22:25And I wanted to flip it on its head and be like, well, what happened if let's say the Aztec or the Maya were still around and had such a big influence on culture, including the things like what we ate or, you know, languages we spoke, the clothes we wore, and then ding, ding, ding, the fragrances we wear. What does it look like from their perspective? And so that was the real inspiration when it came to Lovers Do. It is an aquatic fougere scent inspired by like Aztec and Mayan waters and Aztec and Maya luxury. Like what would that look like from a prestige or fine fragrance standpoint? What would an aquatic scent or a fresh watery scent smell like from the Aztec or Maya perspective in modern day?

23:16And so that's the profile that you'll get. I truly don't think you've smelled something like it either i know i have it on the market yeah this is so so different than your like classic aquatic scent that people are used to it's it's so much more i mean you have the aquatic like you you can tell immediately that's an aquatic fragrance but then when it fully like it dries down like what i get is like the most amazing like you know that like that jacket that someone left behind and you can't stop smelling it because it's got their cologne on it that's what this smells like to me like i i don't know how else to describe it it's like it's a very fresh it's very like it reminds you of the sea the whole time because it is aquatic but it just it has a lived in feeling like you know when you you smell it for a while and that's for me it was just i mean it's mesmerizing when i put it on it's literally all day you're just like smelling yourself it's amazing well mission accomplished i mean that's what i wanted you know is that so it's it's playing nice with the existing scent families that we're familiar with today but then how can you do something that is a little different and for me it was looking at okay well what are some of the hygiene and fragrant practices um in ancient cultures like in the aztec and the maya and then playing into my own mexican and native association and right my own heritage and so that is when you kind of get the aromatics on top so great use of citrus both here in California and Mexico you have the juniper berries which is a very unique kind of like that you know that top note that kind of excites you and piques your curiosity like what is that exactly then bleeding down to the you know we call it cactus fruit it's a tuna de nopal so that's the prickly pear that's not something very common used in fragrance and then of course the classic aquatic oceanic marine notes that you talked about right so still staying true to that family but taking it from the Aztec or Maya perspective and inspiration and and building off of that I mean you even see it in our bottle like our full-size bottle the inspiration behind my creating that was to kind of emulate what a modern type of Aztec relic or like luxury relic may look like so yeah that gorgeous uh marble cap that's that's hand carved and really um is drawn from inspiration of the like pyramids and other relics you you see in museums or if you were heck you know in mexico city or tulum things like that with the limestone uh so just you know being very thoughtful in every little detail um and we're doing that even with the new sense that we're launching later this year which i'm very excited about and they're gonna be no i can't wait to learn about this one because i know you're coming out with a new one and you know i want to say one thing about lovers do and i i love the way that you did do the packaging because you're right it feels almost like this like heirloom piece like the cap it looks like that you know and it just feels like something out of history you know it's beautiful and I really think that's so meaningful because I'm not gonna lie I've had this like a little bit of this conversation before with people where I'm like you know I feel like a lot of things right now that we see in like you know pop culture when it comes to fragrance especially is a lot of just packaging you know It's a lot of packaging with the same scents inside, and that always irritates me, you know what I mean?

26:53Because I feel like packaging should reflect what your experience is going to be with that scent, right? And I feel like you did an amazing job with that, you know, because it does feel like history. It does feel like something that you cherish and you really hold on to. And I think we've kind of, I don't know, I don't want to say we've lost that art of, like, great packaging when it comes to perfumes. But, I mean, I don't know, guys. Like I've seen some crazy stuff, you know, and I like I've been wondering to myself, like, where did that disconnect happen where people stopped reflecting what's in the bottle?

27:27You know what I mean? With the outside look and feel of it. So I think you did a great job there, you know, with your packaging for this one, especially for this one. Thank you. I mean, it's it's an ongoing process, I'll be honest with you. Like I'll write up the I'll drop the sketches of what I want the bottle to be. And you go through so many iterations that even the final product looks a little different than the first one. but I hear you loud and clear and I actually agree with you I I want to know what did happen it's not to say it is completely lost I mean there are some beautiful brands that I know and I'm huge fans of and they are killing it in the packaging and bottling game but um to just double down on what you said I do think the vast majority though that I've come across especially mainstream of course, right?

28:12It doesn't really have that personalized touch to it. And I know there's many reasons for it, right? It's just the manufacturing of it all, the economics of it all. And also there's the brand recognition part of it, right? Like you can look at a Tom Ford bottle and know, okay, that's going to be a Tom Ford scent, which is great. It's iconic, right? And the struggle that us growing brands have to come to terms with is like, do you, how can you make something the bottle or the packaging reflect kind of the experience you're going to have while maintaining this consistency in branding and bottle shape or you know aesthetic so I'm fortunate right now I'm just small enough where I can have the freedom to do that but even I look forward to the day where it does kind of kind of come together and can be consolidated and consistent but that's for another that's another conversation for another time yeah no I mean I think you're right though it is but that's also the beauty of like niche perfumery though is that there's so much thought that gets poured into like every little detail you know what I mean it still is about creating that like that experience for the consumer and like really making you feel like you're living and feeling this fragrance you know in all ways so I think you're right absolutely like I love Tom Ford fragrances like hands down you will never be able to pry them out of my hand that's like like you said it's an established brand you know what i mean and that's the branding but i'm talking about definitely fragrances that look like you know you're going to experience heaven when you smell them and then you open the bottle and it's just like what happened you lost me what happened yeah exactly so but no i want you to dive into your new one that's coming out tell us all about it yeah yeah thank you um so we are releasing a trio of many fragrances.

30:00I can't share too much just yet, but I'm very excited. For people who aren't familiar with my line, everything generally is unisex. That's just my philosophy about scent to begin with. You really want to just spray and wear what you like. With that being said, Celadon and Lovers Do, I feel, are truly unisex. They do, to some smellers, lean towards more masculine. But for these new three scents, I really did want to challenge myself as the perfumer, as the founder, to kind of create something that lean more feminine. And so what I can share about all three of these scents is that they share the same base notes, which are these edible white florals, not in so much of a way for anyone who like immediately cringes and that it's too, you or crunchy that way.

30:52No. It's just that it definitely will have that gourmand inspiration. I'm a little bit of Mr. Gourmand, to be honest. You're never going to disappoint me with a good gourmand. And that's the shared base between all three. It's this gourmand-y, edible, white, floral base, but it's the heart notes and the top notes of all three that will differentiate them. And so my inspiration for this was looking kind of to the divine feminine but also the whimsical side of my brand I kind of wanted to tap into the escapism or the imaginative world that we live in and especially when it comes to nature I feel like fragrance does such a cool job about allowing us to either escape into or escape from different things and this was my way of providing three specific and different formulas that could kind of tap into our full selves.

31:51The idea is you can wear one for particular occasions. You could even layer them. They'll play very, very nicely with each other, especially because of the shared bases. But really, you know, we all have different types of personalities and moods. And I wanted something that could appeal to just about anyone based on just how you're feeling that day, but still have like at the core, this is who I am, right? And that's where the base comes from. So I'm excited to share about that. One is very more playful, a little bit more youthful, I'd say. One is our more sultry and creamy-like. I'm getting some things like, to give you a sneak peek, cacao and white cacao and a lemmy resin that's in it.

32:38Then in the last one, it's a little bit more grounded and a little bit more grown, I call it scent where you'll have like the darker elements like great dark juicy berries a little bit of dark chocolate and even a rum note to it so I play with all of this just kind of to play on the evolution of maybe a person right like through childhood through adulthood and beyond or how you're feeling sometimes I don't know about you but sometimes I still feel like a little kid and Sometimes I feel way more grown than I am. And sometimes I feel just about right. That was my logic when it came to this trio that you will experience.

33:18I love that. That's beautiful. I mean, I think that we could definitely use things in our collection that, you know, it takes you, transports you, like, you know, time-wise in terms of what you feel that day. I think that's very important. So I love that you did that. And I'm excited to try all of them. I'm sure they're going to be absolutely brilliant, like the other two. And for everyone listening, you guys got to try out. you gotta check out Mateo Perfumes I'm going to be linking everything in the show notes for this but Matt thank you so much this was so fun to chat with you and to learn about your experience and I really love what you're creating and I can't wait to see you know where you take the brand because it's so beautiful and it's so unique and I think that with the way that things are now and just as a consumer how I see perfumery and fragrance evolving right now I just I get worried sometimes, you know, like where are we going to be like 10 years from now when, you know, everyone smells the same, but it's really hopeful to see brands like yours and to see the work that you're putting in and, and what you're doing.

34:16So, you know, hats off to you for that and for all of your creativity. All of this means the world to me, truly. Thank you so, so much. And thank you to all the listeners. Thank you for even inviting me onto your show and talking. I love, I could talk forever about these kinds of things. Oh my God. No, we're going to have to do a part two i could talk to you for hours this is amazing and yeah like i said for everyone listening make sure you check out our show notes for all the links and stay tuned we will post something when the new fragrances come out so thank you so much matt thank you hey guys so i hope you loved that episode please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform we are available on so many different platforms so wherever it is that you're tuning in, just go hit subscribe.

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