Inside the Future of Exosomes and Regenerative Beauty With Dr. Ivy

0:00Hi guys, welcome back to skincare enarchy. I'm excited to host our guest today because she truly is a leader in aesthetic medicine, dermatology, innovating the space of skincare care, her beautiful new brand that i've been absolutely obsessed with and this is a great opportunity for us to discuss exo zones i know a lot of you have heard about them they're definitely buzzing right now in the industry and you know on social media but no one's really talking about the science this is a really great opportunity for us to understand that so i would love to introduce you guys to dr ivona egretz welcome dr ivy i'm so excited to host you hi hi i'm very happy to be with you today and to explain something more about exosomes because my big passion lays in regenerative medicine I dedicated my work and all my travel to Asia to exosomes and also to stem cells so now something what legally we can use in skincare in treatments in clinic and also out of clinic are definitely exosomes yeah no I would love to actually learn more about you and your background because I know it's very very impressive and you've worked in so many different countries you have great grasp right of the whole understanding of aesthetics and you've written books and I'd just love to learn more about you if you could tell us what led you into medicine when did you know that you wanted to be a doctor well I think that's a brilliant question but I come out of family of medical doctors actually I'm third generation of medical doctors in my family and believe it or not I did not know anything else so I remember my early years being in my mother's practice and you know playing with with all the stuff she had around exposed in in her clinic and somehow there was it was a natural way for me for my brother and we finished in in medical world but I just did not know what I want to be I had cravings and love of pediatrics because most practitioners in my family were pediatricians and my mom was a dentist so I decided to take both ways and joined it into surgery.

2:08So I was actually an oral surgeon by education but I was also specialized and I did my PhD on bone regeneration and at that time everything was about BMP proteins and stem cells but just empirically. So I decided to leave Europe and dive into Asia because Asia gave me opportunity to try something clinical with stem cells. Wow, that's really fascinating. Yeah, I mean, I feel like there is a lot more flexibility in eastern countries with trying to, you know, go further, right, with the science. I mean, the US is very, very restricted, I know. Yeah, same as Europe. Yeah, same as Europe. But China at that time was just blooming.

2:50It was very open for new treatments. And in the moment I came to China, Hong Kong, Singapore, everything was about aesthetics. We all know that China was in communism, but prior to communism, there was Taoism, which was somehow enhancing a very open for all the beauty treatments, connecting them actually with well-being, and not with vain, like in the Western world, but with something which is connected to health. So you are beautiful, and it means in China you are healthy. And yeah, and then it was somehow natural that after communistic time when everything started to happen and China started to rise, also this craving for beauty was incredible there.

3:35China, South Korea, all these countries were just blooming and they were very, very open. And China invested a lot of money in research in biotech industries. And I was also part of biotech industry. So I was doing research and development of different European injectables. and uh yeah i somehow found a great ground and the great disneyland i would say in china because whatever i was dreaming of i could somehow make happen at that time in china and south korea and everything started there i would say asia was the cradle of all this new wave uh in in minimal invasive aesthetics and anti-aging yeah i'm talking about 25 years ago yeah yeah no that's really fascinating because i think you know when i think of aesthetics in the u.s i've you know i've been most exposed right to the u.s system of how people are are looking at aesthetics and talking about it i mean the approaches seem very redundant you know so i'm curious what how did all of this experience shape your understanding and your approach towards aesthetics overall well i would say that's a brilliant question because asian countries opened me on very very holistic approach to beauty to well-being to anti-aging so it was impossible for me and it is still now to think okay i have a patient who is going to come for a few injectables and that's it that's beginning in the end it's just a part of this journey i watch on aesthetics and beauty like a marathon rather than a sprint and i always think it's all about how we eat how we sleep how we you know it's much more bigger than any clinical approach or anything we apply on our faces is the lifestyle actually so this is where where asia shaped me on a um on a very precise way on a very very holistic approach it's very interesting now i know you've written books and you've explored the mathematical side you know to beauty especially with facial symmetry um i know uh you know a lot of us know about the golden ratio it's talked about a lot you know in just i guess normal conversation now you know but what inspired you to study beauty from that angle like bringing in the math yeah again a brilliant question because you see that's that's my knowledge in in dentistry orthodontics actually and cephalometric analysis so cephalometric analysis is part of orthodontics which is on a way defining geometrically precise growth of the bone and skelet of human face and as well as as the right positioning of the soft tissues so everything is already there for us we have all these parameters or the right angles which are set up for beauty but also beauty lies in some little tiny imperfections some little tiny charming things on our faces so i somehow had a holistic approach so it's all that so beauty is in geometrics and mathematics but also it's something much more individual than that that's interesting so i mean in terms of like you know i think a lot of people have very many misconceptions right and in terms of understanding just how a face should look you know i remember back and when i was growing up like you know uh people used to talk about certain celebrities and they would be like oh you know they're very symmetrical their face is very symmetrical and i would be staring at these pictures you know like trying to figure out like what is it that they're talking about you know and i'd love for you to address this you know what's one misconception that you think people have about symmetry or proportion when it comes to the face well i think beauty is definitely everything close to symmetry but i was analyzing in one of my books actually is symmetry 100 % beauty and what I concluded at the end being 100 % symmetric is rather boring than beautiful so beauty comes from inside and beauty is connected to our special features or special mimics on the faces so it's very important when we treat the face when we do botulin toxin treatments especially not to freeze the face because we kill the best part of identity of a special person or human and also to keep certain imperfections to make it more real and to give it a special charm or I would say underline this individual beauty.

7:59So beauty is close to symmetry I would say not symmetrical and beauty is something special with what we can define on those faces. That's what always fascinated me in this aesthetic medicine actually is a very very comprehensive knowledge of anatomy comprehensive knowledge also of sculpturing i used to do sculptures when i was young this is i think the talent i inherited from my late grandfather who was a sculptor and i somehow combined all that into uh into modeling the faces re-sculpturing the faces and also very very important thing is to understand the social aspects of beauty. You know, I was working in China, I was working in South Korea, I was also working in India, and it was really interesting when I would come on those markets, because I used to be president of American Academy of Facial Aesthetics, so I would set up education trainings for different dentists and doctors in this area, Southeast Asia, but before I would come to new market, I wanted to be briefed about social aspects of beauty.

9:06That's very, very interesting especially on far east because position of the ears for example height of the nose bridge then width of the temples is so different than in our western culture so we could really easy make a mistake on those faces if we are not briefed clearly what an asian far east asian lady wants or far east male patient wants it's very very important to consider all of that before doing any treatments to different people who belong to different social backgrounds. I love that. I think that is so unique. And, you know, I've never really been able to speak to a doctor that's so well versed in this because I always wonder, you know, we look at aesthetics and we look at facial rejuvenation, but then no one speaks about the cultural differences, you know, that exist, like in terms of obviously the geometry of everyone's face, depending on what race you are where you where your ancestors were in the world right when you were yeah the world was developing that's a huge player in how our face is set and like exactly what you said you know like with things like ears or like the nose or these things play a huge role so I don't know why no one speaks about that and also when I look at somebody sometimes who has gotten some work done sometimes it almost feels as if the person who did the work they didn't know how to translate in terms of this is not this face doesn't have the features of what my normal patients have you know what i mean so i have to adapt and i have to actually think about this individual i mean i've seen that a lot where people refer to them as like botched surgeries you know and that really makes you wonder that there needs to be this more global training when it comes to really understanding facial rejuvenation and any kind of surgical procedures you know yes yes i was always upset because you know i have european background but i have licenses in a lot of different european countries like in austria and croatia and slovenia in uh switzerland italy you know it's already those countries who are so small and so close one to another have different social aspects of beauty so you can't inject on the same way or approach on the same way one swiss lady and one english lady so it's very very different but then when we talk about far east and then i don't know london this is night and day and i think of medical trainings definitely should be much more a bit of a different training uh for far east asians even koreans and and and japanese have different requirements in beauty and also anatomy is a bit different as well and what i said before social aspects and the most different part of the face you know what it is for injecting or for approaching it's somehow always the nose i find out oh wow yeah shape of the nose right yeah no i can imagine because usually that's the first thing that actually to the normal eye when you look at someone's face and you feel like you know people always say this right they say so and so has gotten work done when people say the first thing that comes to mind is the nose because that's where i think you can see it the most you know exactly 100 and this what you said as well it's so important that with whatever face we do some work that this work stays undetected not that somebody is kind of pointing the finger on that face saying oh you did your cheeks or i don't know you did your lips it has to be blended into one that's why i developed the treatment called space design long long time ago because i truly believe that beauty lies in this undetected that beauty is meticulous and lie in this undetection so uh people have to comment about you oh wow you look so nice so refreshed something is great about you but not like kind of point the finger and oh your lips are done that's the worst aesthetic setting that said that drives into these botched bot jobs exactly yeah exactly that's what i think that's one of the biggest question marks i always had was this idea of, you know, well, if you're going to, you know, for a lot of the surgeons that I would see them doing this, I'd be like, your job is to make this person feel more beautiful, you know, at the end of the day.

13:20So if they feel like everyone can tell that they've gotten something done, you know, and now this becomes a new insecurity for that person, you know? So it's like a, it's just, it's a lot, it's a lot to take in. But I love that. I love your approach. People can really learn from that you know i think that when it comes to medical education i'm a huge believer in like international education like i really think that doctors need to expand their horizons you know what i mean and they need to go to other places in the world they have to see different techniques and understand you know that there are serious cultural anatomical various different you know differences in people and you have to be able to grasp that in your practice now let's talk about skincare i love your line i'm obsessed with it yeah thank you thank you it's beautiful and you know i want to like tell us all about it like where where did you come up with the idea and you know what led you to wanting to work with exosomes if you could tell us about you know the background of how it started yeah yeah so in asia i was very early exposed to stem cells and stem cell anti-aging stem cell rejuvenation so not just empirically but also clinically and I fall in love in this approach of regeneration of all the facial tissues.

14:32And I did my first stem cell forum 2011, imagine at that time in Europe. And at that time, people were thinking this is a witchcraft. Now we all know what are stem cells and we all know how powerful they can be. But again, in Westonville, there is not enough medical trials, not enough experience with number of stem cells which can bring to certain tissue rejuvenation or regeneration. So closest we can get to those stem cells were exosomes. And believe it or not, when I was working with stem cells, because in the labs when you develop stem cells and you culture them, then there are exosomes present, but at that time we thought this is just a waste.

15:18This is just a product of stem cells which can be thrown away. But then 20 years ago, they started to talk about different particles inside of these little tiny vesicles, like they found messenger RNA, growth factors and all these beneficial little important molecules. And somehow conclusion came to the point that exosomes are basically like little messengers, like DHL, bringing information from one cell to another. so they're very very interesting and and somehow the idea that I can bridge the gap in between clinical practice and in between skincare line with something which is new and which can give to my patients possibility that at home they work on their cell level and on changing of the cell information of their fibroblasts for example to produce collagen it was so tempting and I found very good support in german biotech and somehow we came to idea to produce the first exosome line in europe wow that's this really fascinating and you know the thing is with exosomes you know i have was very skeptical when i first heard about them you know because in the west i think they one there's lack of education that's the number one thing and then two you know you'd only hear selective information so many times the papers that are published or maybe somebody is citing something it's not telling you the whole story and it it's very difficult to understand how do these things work when it comes to especially like delivery methods you know one of the biggest questions i have about exosomes and i'd love for you to educate me is that you know as you said exosomes are waste particles you know they're carrying waste from cells outwards right and so how does that work when you're incorporating them as delivery systems because i would think that the surface proteins have to be modified right for the docking and for them for them to enter actually into certain areas i mean they have to be modified in the labs and the exosomes actually they have a lot of good advantages their first nanoparticles they're very very tiny and they can ally us with with the membrane of the human cell in the process of endocytosis.

17:35And actually during the incorporation in Germany, during the incorporation in all this kinker line, we have to change, like you said, expressions on their tiny membranes and that way they would be more lipophilic and penetrate into the cell. But in the moment when I finished those exosomes, and out of our research, 43.5 million was quite enough to kick into rejuvenation process into one month. I was reading a lot of publications and a lot of new exciting things happening with different light wavelengths of the different lights like yellow blue and red light and lasers radio frequency and EMS. So combination of all of that can imagine push exosomes to work even harder and stronger and bring this this rejuvenation or intracellular level 170 to 200 times more so for example very interesting for me was that exosomes in conjunction with yellow light from LAD mask can bring into clearing the skin imperfection and tone we all know that this is the month of rosacea so for example for rosacea patients would be very useful on long term to work with exosomes together joined with yellow The only problem with all those kind of treatments with exosomes and light therapy or low level laser therapy or radio frequency is that it's regenerative.

19:04So it needs time to kick in. It's not quick like it would be for example, botulin toxin, 3-4 days you see the first results. So it needs time that the body somehow kicks in with the right number of exosomes. normal people fall to 43.5 million i would say normal population but somebody who is maybe more hard to response needs longer time than one month so five to six weeks to to see the first first results but they are absolutely beautiful and i think this is the future that's very exciting and you know it's interesting because when when we're looking at these new technologies you know what for me what comes to mind is very dated dermatological drugs that have been used you know I'm a I'm a big advocate for this and you know some people might hate me for it but I think that dermatology drugs are outdated you know I think that when you get like Accutane when you're 15 years old right for acne or when you get these really ridiculous prescriptions for retinol and retinol and you know tretinoin it's it's damaging your skin you know it does and there's been studies and people can see you know any scientist can see that right it's like you're completely destroying your skin barrier and and they're using things from like such a long time ago and and that's a huge problem i have you know myself as a physician because i think that there's better options you know out there and so i would love for you to explain you know what can people expect from you know something like this like you've developed this very cutting edge you know breakthrough line versus traditional treatments that they get maybe even over the counter like retinol vitamin c serums like all of these what's the big difference here between them well this is very very interesting question so i can compare that as a symptomatical use of drugs right so when a kid has a fever and then we give to the kid paracetamol and that's it done and here we are treating cold so with regenerative medicine we are trying to reprogram the cells we are trying to boost collagen we are trying to speed up the cell turnover we are trying to reduce on inflammation we are trying to modify ATP acceleration of production cellular energy we are trying to reduce oxidative stress so it's a totally different approach I would say it's more core approach to the problem so core approach tackling the core approach to anti-aging to beauty to everything rather than tackling a symptom and as you said bringing out a lot of different side effects of the medication i totally agree with you by the way yeah yeah no it's very interesting but i i trained a little bit internationally and one of my mentors he was a nigerian trained doctor and he told me he said you know one of the biggest differences between the medicine that is practiced in the west right like in the u.s and compared to everywhere else is as doctors and everywhere else we use our hands you know we use our intuition we use our gut and we don't need medical iq which we forgot in western world yeah 100 yeah yeah exactly and that's exactly what he said as well and when you know he used the example of cardiology because you know now they have these like machines that can detect murmurs and stuff here and it's like you know there's no nobody's actually a practicing medicine so when i look at the way you know for example with skin care when i look at the way that dermatology is practiced in the u.s a lot of it feels like we're just using an old equation over and over and over again, you know, and at some point, you have to modify that equation, and you have to come up with new variables.

22:38And so I think this is where I find what you're doing so innovative, because, you know, there needs to be a new benchmark set at this point, where patients and, you know, consumers alike, we can look and say, okay, this is where my skin should be, you know, it should be normal that I have clear skin, that I have beautiful skin, And I should be able to have products that can give me that. And so it's very important, I think, in that way. Very important. Totally agree with you. We lost this natural intelligence in medicine. And somehow everyone is great in his little tiny bubble, you know. But there is no holistic approach that exists in Asia, that exists in Africa, 100%.

23:18There is a holistic approach which we are missing in Western world. Now, you've also developed a proprietary at-home laser. can you tell us about that a little bit and what sets it apart from other devices on the market well I would say that I you know I started also my journey with Photona lasers I don't know if they are popular in America but they are quite great laser equipment in Europe I brought this laser to China I developed 4D facelift with Photona lasers so I got quite deep into into laser approach and laser technologies at the time. And I was also key opinion leader for Venus concept, this is radio frequency.

23:58And I always thought, you know, at some point, the technology could be adjusted to be used at home on a safe way for the patient. And also, I was never really happy with those very aggressive erbium lasers, you know, so I used to do the first erbium lasers, and I saw how much better is going softly and slowly to the skin instead of destroying all this keratin layer aggressively with erbium it's nicer and more genuine results i get if i do something more softer in combination of different kind of lasers but softer not so aggressive and this is the uh where the idea came from that i can produce something or make something which is beneficial for home use which should be used maybe more often in shorter periods of time rather than once per month aggressively so exosomes were the core regenerative medicine was the core but how to enhance it how to help it to work even better that's why the devices came in led mask with yellow light blue and red light and then low level laser therapy together with radio frequency and DMS, electromagnetic stimulation of the muscles.

25:09We know all that face has 43 muscles, and I think the biggest problem is aging of those muscles and inadequate way of working of those muscles because they're not support enough, they lack of support of different fat-fat tissues. And that's why it's very important, lymphatic drainage and vascularization. You know, exosomes work beautifully with blue light and they create angiogenesis, neoangiogenesis new blood vessels and a lot of oxygenation under the skin that's so fascinating i love that you did that i love that you've approached it like that because i look at this on social media and i cringe because there's so many young women right now especially well i think young people in general and they're running to these clinics these med spots and they're getting botox every week or something you know and they're getting all these laser treatments all this stuff and i'm just like one it's terrible for your your finances you know yeah but then also you know from the health perspective you know you have so many people i mean i mean just think of the people that are using all these fillers now you know and then they're going and they're saying no dissolve my filler and it's become this weird culture where they people think that okay i got it done now i can reverse it it shouldn't be like that you know yeah it shouldn't be like that it's so abused everything started to be over consumed and abused and mostly who will suffer at the end is the patient it's the patient face the patient skin skin barria and skin cell and everything is going in the wrong direction i would say people i see more and more botched people walking down the street and uh yeah aesthetics uh aesthetic is not anymore in the frame of something normal and anatomical or physiological it it becomes abused i would say yeah yeah less is more i agree i agree and i think that's it's wonderful the way that you practice medicine and then that you've really honed in on your craft because i think that a lot of doctors can learn from your approach i mean i think that at the end of the day medicine you know we learn even in medical school they tell us do no harm and when i look around you know dr ivy i see a lot of people and i'm not blaming anybody you know what I mean as a doctor myself I will never point a finger at any other physician you know it takes a lot of studying and hard work to get to where we are but then at the end of the day you also have to do no harm you know what I mean and you have to be able to say say no to people when they say you know fix my face make me look like Angelina Jolie you can't do that so it's really you know it's crazy to me and and sometimes I see that you know there's a lot of people like LA based doctors I've seen them do this you know and it's just not it's not ethical and you know there needs to be like you said there needs to be a really a good way to approach this and then the way you've created your line is remarkable because it gives people that feeling of yes it's in my hands now I can take care of my skin I can take care of my results and make sure that I'm you know constantly doing what I need to do rather than these quick fixes you know so that's very important but i want to ask you you know you you've worn so many hats you're a doctor you're an author you're an educator brand founder now which role really challenged you the most out of all of these i live for the patient you know when i came in uk somehow it was it was the time in my career when everybody advised me to stop working with the patient and and and start just doing education and develop educational programs and phds and and whatever day it was needed right and in deep in myself I thought okay fine maybe maybe I should really you know maybe I should really know when to say no to a patient and go into the other direction and then write more medical articles and you know consider my my career going in the point of education but I couldn't live without patients so I went back to the patients and I'm still practicing all of that plus biotech industry which I think Dr.

29:12Ecta is very very important in my concept and understanding of beauty because there is a lot big knowledge in chemistry behind all those injectables and how they really work you know because what I again think for example Sculptra one simple example this was material which when I was very young we started to develop it in biotech industry to help HIV patients because they had lipotrophy on the faces. And the sculptural material which works with your personal answer of your own body. So it brings to fibrosis. And when I see the same sculpture, I've been nowadays injected and abused in patients' faces all over London and creating complications on the necks.

29:58And I just think there is such a lack of knowledge of materials and and and chemistry behind those materials which are used to be injected in human faces this is what is always bothering me so i live for the patient and the center of my world is patient and well-being of single person i would say i love that that's so i love that you you're doing what you're doing in such a ethical way in such a moral way and i i agree with your example with sculpture i mean i think that's there's a lot of things like that now where i I look and I'm like, what are we doing? You know, like what is going on? I mean, just doing the long term.

30:34Yeah. Yeah. And then these young kids, I mean, I worry about the 20 year olds, you know, like that's, that's the one that really hits home for me because I remember being that age group and how, how much you feel about your own body. And, you know, they're still figuring out how to feel about themselves and their, their own opinion. And then they go and they, they meet people that say, I can inject this and you're going to look better and you're going to feel. But then, you know, some downstream side effect happens. And then what does that kid do? You know, there's, I mean, it's a very, very complex situation.

31:06And I think that's where doctors have to reevaluate. Like we have an ethical book that we have to follow. There has to be morality in this, you know? So yeah, I love what you're doing, Dr. Ivy. I really applaud you. I mean, you're, you're truly a leader. And I hope that a lot more people can learn from the way that you're conducting your practice. You know, it's wonderful. I love what you are saying now about the young people so young people are really really have to be careful with all these aesthetics because you know what I see more and more that young people if they are injected they start to look very old I can't say the age anymore and that's what is really worrying me so in my practice I don't like to inject people who are young if they really don't have certain malformation on the face unfortunately I had a few patients from stroke in their early 20s and that's the thing when I help, you know, or some serious issues.

31:59But, you know, preventative fine, but injecting them, it's just a crime, I would say. But you know what is worrying me now? I had a mother telling me before Christmas that her daughter, who is nine years old, wants certain skincare. And she showed me the list of skincare this daughter wants. And I said, are you really going to buy that for her? It was Drunken Elephant, even La Mer on that list. oh my god don't you think this is a disaster i mean what these kids are going to do to their skin health to ph of their skin to you know of the skin i'm just like wondering where this is going to end yeah it's very no no i completely agree i think that's you've had a very important spot for me in my heart about this because i created a regulatory seal for teens because of this actually and I yeah I talked to pediatric dermatologists because we the more this was happening I was noticing in Sephora you know you I'm sure you've heard the stories people are you know kids are running to Sephora and they're buying these acids and they're buying retinol products and and it's horrible it's crazy and you know what no one's saying and I'm still looking for this on social media by the way if anyone's listening and you're a social media creator I want to see this on you guys's feeds talk about what retinol does to developing skin let's talk about that you know like let's talk about what happens to those receptors and how they actually develop and their regulation when you actually start applying these ridiculous chemicals you know and what's going to happen to these kids 20 years down the road and how their skin is not going to respond to any treatments at that point because now we've over sensitized and we've over upregulated certain receptors you know it's a whole book i could you know i could talk about this yeah no no no i'm It's a horror movie out there.

33:52No, I want to ask you, though, you know, you've already done so much, and I love, you know, everything new that you're doing, and the line is beautiful. You've created something truly efficacious. First and foremost, I want all of our listeners to understand that, that this is, I've been using Dr. Ivey's line regularly, and my skin has never looked better, and I'm not saying that lightly. It's really, I mean it. It looks amazing, and I love it because the products are doing what they're supposed to do you know what i mean i don't ever feel like well maybe i should do an extra exfoliation this week you know like it's never like that it's just i use my skincare i'm good my skin looks great i don't have to think about it so you know i want to ask you what is next i mean for you i mean are there any innovations down the line that you're working on or you know anything new there are some innovations yeah yeah yeah there are some innovations looking into and everything is based on rejuvenation and regeneration i'm not supposed to talk about that but before i start the concept i have to have a team uh and uh now i think i built up a really nice team in germany so we are all excited about new things to come so we are always looking into something like general approach to beauty general approach to anti-aging something what can be used mass population and something which is based on rejuvenation and regeneration that does not harm the skin that can just improve everything as well as in technology so i want to combine all these things together technology and rejuvenation regeneration and i have no inspiration in the east for example i didn't explain well about exosomes uh in europe we ethically we can use just exosomes from the plant plant-based so why i choose central asiatica and then we got exosomes from uh from that plant so the exosomes were extracted in japan i was working closely with nobel prize winning team in japan with ipl derivated stem cells 2011 so i have my connections there and we got japanese exosomes and we in germany implemented them uh changed the receptors and implemented them into skincare line so it was an interesting journey as well uh so next again rejuvenation but a bit more uh innovative i would say always a step a step further that's so fascinating wow i didn't know that you went to japan to get the you know the the real technology that's that's really fascinating i'm a huge fan of japan i love me too i love japanese scientists and you know just the way that science is done there yeah that's really cool yeah science is beautiful there but everything is beautiful food concept of life everything is minimalistic and beautiful and precise i also wanted to tell you that i have education uh and uh i'm running it in 23 world countries and my idea my wish was to connect all the doctors around the world that they can easy go to thailand and you know in educational centers in thailand work during a certain period of of time because you need a month or two months to be in in a foreign country and understand what is beauty in that country then to go to japan then to go to germany or switzerland then to come back to us that would be a brilliant concept for every young person who wants to somehow uh start uh to live in the world of facial aesthetics because we have so different faces so different uh skin tones and so different requirements and then understanding of beauty absolutely well that's really fascinating and truly you know hats off to you dr abby i mean you're really you know i think you're you're setting such an example you know in in medicine and i i really i don't say that lightly i think that it's rare to meet people like you and to meet doctors like you that are not just doing it because you know it's a profession they thought was cool or something or you know somebody pushed them in it you're doing it for all of the right reasons and you're innovating in this space and that's very rare to see so truly thank you for everything that you do and your line is amazing honestly I can't say that enough it's amazing thank you so much you changed my mind actually you changed my mind about exosomes when I tried your line yeah you did you did you asked me like you know six months ago what I thought about exosomes I was not I was confused you know i was very confused and then i experienced your line and i did more reading and i started under and it really works and i think that there's so much that can be learned here from anyone who's like you know really into skincare and you want to understand you know like what's truly efficacious what makes skincare efficacious this is a great line for you to actually even study you know what i mean just like look at the look at the results that people have had i mean it speaks for itself so i really encourage our listeners you guys got to check it out we'll be linking everything in the show notes so make sure you scroll down and go to the the link and the website dr ibi thank you so much this was an honor to host you thank you thank you dr it was really nice interesting interesting talk and and journey with you today thank you hey guys so i hope you love that episode please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform.

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