Joanna Vargas on the Science and Art of Great Skin

0:00Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Skin Anarchy. I am so, so honored to be hosting our guest today. She is truly a trailblazer, an icon in the skin health space, and I have been following her for such a long time. Huge fan of her products. So without further ado, please welcome Joanna Vargas. Welcome, Joanna. Such an honor.

0:18Joanna Vargas:Oh, thank you so much. You are so sweet. I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited to host you. It's really, really, you know, it's been on my bucket list to have you on the show. So this is a full circle moment for me. I would love to get started, like kind of walking down memory lane and talking about your career because it's been so phenomenal so far and you've worked on the best of the best, you know, and you've seen skin in a way that I think very rarely people experience in this industry. And so what got you into, you know, just beauty and skin care and skin health and becoming an esthetician?

0:51Joanna Vargas:you know I always say that it was a winding road I thought that I wanted to move to New York and be a fashion photographer and I learned very quickly that I wasn't very well suited for that type of you know freelance type work I was really shy so I actually went to aesthetic school thinking like maybe I'll be a makeup artist or something that has to do with fashion but like on a tangent and when I got into beauty school I absolutely fell in love with giving facials and really like being one-on-one with a client and helping them solve their issues what what the puzzle of their skin was and I really felt many times that women wanted to learn more about their skin or what they should be doing, but they really had nowhere to go to.

1:46Joanna Vargas:So I felt like I could be the big sister in that situation and really help guide people. So I gave myself a year to try it out once I graduated from school and I never looked back. That was almost 30 years ago. Wow. That's really fascinating. I feel like when you're meant to do something, it just like it falls in place and you keep going. I mean, were there moments in your career in the early aspects where you're like, I don't know, you know, I don't know if I'm doing this, you know, if I should do this for the long run, or did you always know that you wanted to pursue this? I think there's always like, people always have doubts, you always have sort of like an inner discourse with yourself about decisions you're making.

2:27Joanna Vargas:And especially as a younger person, I was quite insecure, and a little bit like, you know, what should I it all felt very serious, all the decisions I was making. Um, and I didn't want to make any mistakes. I think what I felt, um, in some, uh, in some ways, like I was meant to do this because my grandmother, um, was very beauty focused and she would always buy me like bubble baths and, you know, powders and creams and things for my birthday. And so like looking back at my life, this career made sense. And then it was just kind of trying to find like what, what about the industry really spoke to me.

3:10Joanna Vargas:And that took some time. And I really took my time figuring that out. You know, I worked at an organic day spa for a while. I worked for a derm. I, you know, just tried out different like kinds of points of view before I really found what spoke to me the most. Yeah, that makes sense. And, you know, it's interesting, your journey, like when I was reading a bit more, you know, it's like you've, you were so successful in bridging that like world of like, you know, kind of like the natural based remedies for skin health, as well as the clinical based. And I would love to get your, you know, take on this in terms of what actually works for the skin.

3:50I mean, especially when you're first starting out, what were some things that you, you noticed were really moving the needle for a lot of people when it came to their skin health?

3:57Joanna Vargas:well I think it was an interesting time I became an esthetician in um the late 90s and um I think what was interesting is that most places just offered one type of facial it was kind of like some version of a cleansing facial with different products and then like a glycolic peel and people were trying to be more thoughtful about formulas even in that era it was like is this product organic or what does it do for the skin or what is this chemical ingredient? What does this mean? So people were really starting to kind of dig in there. And for me, what was really obvious in a sort of a painful way was that not everything works for everyone.

4:47Joanna Vargas:There's not one service that works across skin types, across skin tones. And really, I started to lean into technologies because that is something that speaks to skin across skin types. And, you know, whether you have oily skin, acneic skin, super dry skin, for example, LED is something that can help you and can help increase the health and wellness of your skin and what you're seeing when you look in the mirror. So it was really kind of realizing that, like, you know, we needed a bit more science in the conversation. And that just wasn't happening in those moments. resistance. As far as I know, I'm the first esthetician in Manhattan to have LED.

5:38Joanna Vargas:There was a derm that had it, Pat Wexler. And that's what really I was like, wow, I had a client that was going to her and I was kind of blown away at how much her skin improved. So that's what made me like, okay, let's read some scientific papers and get into this, you know? Yeah, no, that's, I mean, that's really the interesting part is that I feel like, you know when I was noticing like skincare for the first time there was this huge division between like you know natural organic skincare and then like the super heavy clinical focused skincare and I always used to like kind of turn to estheticians myself you know try to figure out what really does work you know in terms of what is the science and and where does it really play in and so when I you know when I look at this world it becomes very confusing because there's so many products now, right?

6:24That are like philosophy, both philosophies. And I mean, I'm sure in your career, you watch this evolve, you know, this whole like industry evolve. So what were some of the first, I guess, like big things that you were like, okay, this is huge, you know, like, I know you just mentioned LED, but like, what were some of the big treatments that you were like, this is going to really change the game for aesthetics?

6:49Joanna Vargas:I felt, you know, at the beginning of my career, microcurrent, for example, has been around forever since the fifties. It changed so much by the time that I started my own spa in 2006, I tried one device that I was like, oh, this is a game changer because microcurrent in the early years, when I was first starting out, it, it was kind of stung. It would make the skin very red. I was like, why would anybody want to do this? And then suddenly, you know how technology kind of evolves. Suddenly I was trying out this machine that I wanted to possibly buy for my space and it was painless. It gave you an instant result.

7:34Joanna Vargas:You could actually feel like one side of the face was lifted and the other side wasn't like when they did one side. And there was something so rewarding about giving somebody that boost of confidence right in that moment. I was like, that's going to be a game changer. That's something that I can tell clients about that whether you're 25 or 85, you're going to see a difference with this. And it was at a time when everybody was very concerned with going non-invasive and really looking for things that weren't filler and Botox because that was sort of exploding in that time. Yeah, no, I like microcurrent.

8:14I feel like it's still like super in the scene, you know, they keep trying to come out with new versions.

8:20Joanna Vargas:Totally. I mean, I think that's what's cool about tech is that it does evolve. In my career, it's evolved so much. And it's just, I think sometimes people might have a funny viewpoint about technology like, oh, I tried that. It doesn't work. Well, you know, it evolves over time and gets better over time. And then it's like, okay, what machine have you used? Well, this is something that was just created last year. And this is going to be like the most cutting edge. You know what I mean? And that was sort of, you know, alongside of all of that was sort of this conversation about product and active ingredients.

9:02Joanna Vargas:Because like I said at the beginning, when I first started my career, it was like glycolic was the acid ingredient. or the active ingredient rather. And so like, then we were kind of bringing in some plant-based ingredients, you know, stem cells, epidermal growth factor, all of those kinds of things were really interesting. I can remember there was one product line that claimed that there were oxygen bubbles inside the product. I don't want to say the name, but, and like that didn't make sense to me. Like how could there be, how could, you know, I know that it's the skin needs oxygen, but how could you claim that?

9:46Joanna Vargas:So anyways, so that actually inspired me to create my very first product, which is the, my green juice for the skin product, my daily serum, because what gives oxygen to the skin greens that you could put into a product and give an oxygenating effect in that rosy glow and that would make sense to me. So it was just sort of like applying what I knew scientifically with what I thought was possible to put in a jar and call it a something, you know? Yeah. No, it makes a lot of sense. And, you know, I feel like we're still in that era of like buzzy ingredients or like, you know, and that actually is one of my biggest questions for you is like, I know, I mean, you've seen, I mean, you've seen so many clients you've worked with skin, you know, in such a like, you know, close way that when you were developing your line, what were some things that you noticed that were maybe recurring in all of your clients that you're like, I got to figure this out.

10:43And I got to bring this to my skincare line, you know, as a

10:47Joanna Vargas:solution. I think it's such an interesting question because I used to, I actually still have the question when you, when you become a client of my salon, you answer like, you know, what is your goal for your skin? And I thought that my clients were focused on anti-aging. I know it's like, you're not supposed to say that anymore, but in 2006 to 2010, everybody was saying it. So I thought that that's what everyone would write down. But the first hundred people that I ever gave facials to at my spot, you know what they wrote? they wanted clean clear glowing skin word for word every single person wrote that and it was like no matter their age whether they were uh a first-time mom uh a mom of a 30-year-old daughter any age they all wrote that I I couldn't believe it because it really um it made me think about like what's marketed to women in terms of like you know your skin is dirty your skin is dull You're, you know, like all of these kinds of things, like what we're fed in the media.

11:56Joanna Vargas:And then like, what could I do for them that would really make them feel like, oh, it's, it's better without making somebody feel bad. Like, you know, um, women already kind of feel self-critical. So how can I be an esthetician that doesn't add to that, that conversation that you're having with yourself in the mirror? um and so it led me for example to and and everybody thinks they have sensitive skin that's the other thing so it led me to create i have an exfoliating mask which was my second product that i ever made and it's a combination of um green papaya extract lactic acid kojic acid and it also has pumice so you can scrub it on very gently or leave it on as a mask and it gave people the feeling that like cleanliness that they wanted out of their pores, but also like a brightening, like that glow, you know?

12:58Joanna Vargas:And so it's, sometimes it's sort of like breaking a concept down, like what would make someone feel glowy, a great exfoliator, you know? And, um, and that's how I decided to create my product was just listening to my clients and listening to like what their feedback was about other products that they were using at home and trying to be thoughtful about how I could give them what they wanted. Yeah, it makes sense. And you know, it's interesting you say that because exfoliation has gotten kind of like this bad reputation over the last couple of years. And I don't know why, because my skin, it looks the best when I properly exfoliate.

13:39Yes.

13:40Joanna Vargas:And your keyword that you just used is proper. Now there's different ways of doing that. And your skin and my skin are different. And what your skin's needs might be different from mine, but you still have to do it. You still have to, especially if you live in a city with pollution, just the grime of the day, or if your skin's on the oilier side, then you have to kind of, you know, control what's building up inside the pores and so on. But even if your skin, you know, I'm, I'm 56, my skin is, you know, mature. So like, you know, I have to also exfoliate in order to feel like my products are penetrating well into the skin.

14:28Joanna Vargas:And some people, I think what's interesting about back then was that we didn't have the amount of information we have now available to the public. It was like fashion magazines and that's kind of it, right? And now it's like you could just, you know, chat GPT, a whole skincare routine and not even talk to anybody human. So. Isn't that crazy? Like I find that to be wild. I mean, and honestly, what is your take on this? Because I feel like there's been this divide between like dermatologist focused advice and an esthetician focused advice, but I've always seen it as like, there's, these are two disciplines that marry, you know, and they have to come together.

15:08And I'd love for you to speak on this, if you could, like in terms of like, where you're like, especially when you were first starting off, like where you found your self fitting in this equation of giving people what they needed, but then obviously understanding like their dermatologist is telling them one thing, you know, but then you're working with their skin probably much more than the dermis. So. Totally.

15:30Joanna Vargas:I mean, like I've always had obviously tons of respect and deference to whatever a derm tells one of my clients. But at the same time, you know, the beauty industry is an industry. and um i have had clients come to me crying because some uh doctor gave them a list of what's wrong with their face um i've had clients come to me and say that you know they went in for a mold check and it was suggested that they do a bunch of filler to make them look better quote unquote better. And I think that there is a place for both of us on a panel of your trusted advisors. And I do believe in skin cancer checks.

16:26Joanna Vargas:I believe that everybody should have a derm that they trust. But it's also like you have to be mindful of the fact that maybe not everybody has your best interest all the time, if they're making you feel bad, maybe that's not a well executed appointment, or maybe that person's not for you. And kind of like balancing all of that. Really what I have done my whole mission with my whole career is to make people understand that everybody could have beautiful skin. It's just a matter of finding what's the correct balance for you, the correct home routine. And part of that is understanding that you know something about your skin too, and that it's not about going into these appointments like letting someone order you around.

17:19Joanna Vargas:It's your appointment. It's supposed to be for you. So there are many derms in this city that I highly respect, who highly respect me and the way that I work. And we work very well together to make people happy. And, you know, there have been like the cautionary tales of like people that have had some really unfortunate experiences that made them feel worse, not better. And that is something that I think, you know, as a service provider, I always hold at the top of my mind is that I'm here to make you feel good. I'm here to make you feel special and heard. And I want you to feel beautiful when you leave my presence.

18:04Joanna Vargas:And I want you to be educated and know what steps you need to take in order to feel that way every day, no matter if I'm with you or not. And that's my role. And I think for a derm, they are doctors and they're supposed to give medical advice, but medical advice doesn't, to me, is not whether or not someone does filler. That's like an opinion, you know? So it's a bit just giving people the idea that they're allowed to be like, you know, that's not right for me. I don't think I'm going to do that, you know? Yeah. No, that's actually such an excellent point that you brought up because I've been in that position where I went to a provider and exactly what you described, you know, it was recommended it to me to get filler and I was like absolutely not I don't need it you know and it's almost like you get that pushback and then the science comes in of like well this will help you with the volume and I'm like but what about all the other options you know there's so many other things that don't get discussed in those kind of consultations you know and that's where I and that's originally actually why I asked you that question because I feel like in the world of like aesthetics and what estheticians do, like it's just a more personalized approach.

19:22Like that's been my experience, you know, as a consumer is like, I feel like I can have a conversation that I couldn't really have with somebody who's so focused on allopathic medicine, where it's drugs and it's, you know what I mean, injectables, and that's all they've learned. So they don't know how to counsel on other stuff, you know, that kind of thing. So.

19:41Joanna Vargas:And I think there's a lot, you know, sometimes there's just a lack of, how should I put it? A lack of grace in those conversations at times. It's like, who, who asked you whether I needed filler or not, you know, or I, you know, and, and what that does to somebody who's already feeling vulnerable. Like I'm very acutely aware that most people share very deeply intimate insecurities with me. So if, if you're telling me, you know, I've, always felt very insecure about blah. And then I'm like, well, I mean, you need filler. I had one client who told me, um, a medical professional, uh, told her like, well, you're going to need at least five vials of filler just to start.

20:30Joanna Vargas:I mean, I don't know, like that's just the beginning and just set it in that type of style where it's kind of like you, you're made to feel like you're a lost cause, but also like, you know what I mean? It's just, it's not so cool, but I think, um, there are plenty of people who don't do that. And I think, you know, um, being a professional in every sense of the word is so important. And, you know, obviously I'm an esthetician, so I have deep respect for estheticians and the way that we approach things, even when we have different philosophies, I think that, you know, I have so many friends in this world in, you know, different cities, you know, in Europe, all over.

21:16Joanna Vargas:And we all tend to approach from like the care of the client first. And what does that person, you know, want from us? And how are we going to approach that for you? And I think that's important. Yeah, no, I definitely resonate with that. And I think one of the biggest questions I have, and I always wonder this, if you're an esthetician and you're working on skin every day, how do you approach all of these novel ingredients that are coming out? Because I feel like every day there's some new bioactive, some new protein, something that's popping up. And it's like, how do you sift through all of that?

21:56I'm just curious, when you're vetting products or when you're vetting ingredients for your own line, what is your process for sifting through the science?

22:03Joanna Vargas:I mean, I obviously like to stay in knowledgeable about everything that's coming out. I ask a lot of questions of people that I trust. And then knowledge comes to me in different ways. For example, there's a line called plated. Have you heard of that exosome? And so I didn't know what to make of it. Obviously there's a lot of opinion. And then I was talking to a doctor about, my daughter is a dancer and she was having a knee problem. So I was talking to a stem cell doctor about stem cell therapy and blah, blah. And he was like, you know, I hear you're in skincare. Have you ever heard of this line called plated?

22:50Joanna Vargas:That stuff is the real deal. So here was a doctor, a sports medicine doctor who was telling me that he was familiar with the doctors who created plated who if you don't know is a line um by by doctors from the mayo clinic in minnesota and um i was so i was like i can't believe you know about that and he was like i happen to read all the research and you know it's just so interesting so like you know sometimes knowledge comes that way, sort of, I happen into it, but I do like to read a lot of studies, you know, medical journal type studies so that I can see what the actual data is like firsthand for myself, because, you know, a lot of it gets interpreted by whomever is, has read it and then writes an opinion about it.

23:41Joanna Vargas:And I don't want to read that opinion sometimes. So I do it that way, or, you know, sometimes a client will come in and I'll be like, wait a minute, your skin is looking like so amazing. What did you change? And then they'll say, oh, I started using blah. And so that'll make me want to dive in. But you know, I'm also very lucky. I do get a lot of brands send me things. So I get to try a lot of things firsthand. And there's nothing that replaces being able to try something on myself. And if I like it on myself, then I'll involve. I have, you know, um, at this point, uh, let's see, I have 27 estheticians that work under me.

24:25Joanna Vargas:So they try a lot of things and we talk about it. Um, so it just depends on, on what the line is and what I'm going to use it for. Um, we also have a few nurses here. They try things or, or let me in on stuff. So that's pretty cool. It's pretty fun. It's sort of like the, what I guess people would imagine my career is. I just sit around playing with products all day. That's pretty cool. I like that. No, I mean, honestly though, but you know, the reason I ask is because your line, when I look at, you know, the actual skincare line, you have so many tried and true ingredients and your products are really, really heavy hitting.

25:04I mean, I, for anyone listening in the audience, like, I mean, every single product I've tried in your collection has been very, very efficacious for my skin. And I mean, I remember the first product was your vitamin C cleanser.

25:16Joanna Vargas:And I didn't think a cleanser could make that big of a difference. That makes me so happy. Yes. It made the biggest. It was so, so good. And to this day, it's one of my favorite cleansers because it does what it's supposed to do. And that's why I am just so in awe of what you've created because it's like you've used the best ingredients, But you're not chasing these like, you know, like brand new, like, okay, the new biotech. Okay, it's cool. But it's like, it's one thing to understand it. But it's another thing to like wait for that efficacy for all those results to come out before we as, you know, like developers or formulators like get behind it.