Rewriting Allergy Care with Lorne Lucree of Wizard Wellness

0:00Dr. Ekta Yadav:Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy. This is a wonderful episode. I'm so thrilled about it. I've been waiting for a long time to record this episode because I have a very dear friend with me today and I am probably his forever fan. We had him on the podcast before and he shared so many insights with us because he is truly one of the leaders in the beauty industry. He has worked with, I mean, think of any major brand, he's worked with them. He's advised them. He's been behind the scenes. And so his perspective, when I look at his perspective, it's literally the full understanding of the beauty landscape.

0:29Dr. Ekta Yadav:And so to now speak to him about his own brand is incredibly full circle. So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys again to Lauren Lucree. Welcome, Lauren. I'm so honored to host you.

0:40Lorne Lucree:Oh, my God. I'm so happy to be here. And likewise, you're such a legend. So thank you so much for having me. Oh, my gosh.

0:46Dr. Ekta Yadav:No, it's such an honor. Every time I talk to you, I just like I just so much happiness comes into my life because you're such a positive person. And like even like when I look at your brand and the way you've created it and just like I don't want to spoil it for our listeners yet. because I want to dive in, but it's just so fun. It's like the energy and the vibes and I don't know. I just love it. So I want to dive in, but first I want to kind of reacquaint everybody with your background because you are a legend in the beauty industry. You literally have seen it all, done it all. You've worked with so many brands.

1:16Dr. Ekta Yadav:Tell us a little bit. Give us the elevator version of everything you've been involved with in the beauty space. Just kind of walk us down memory lane a little bit.

1:24Lorne Lucree:Oh, God. Are you calling me old, Ecta? Is that what you're at?

1:27Dr. Ekta Yadav:No, I'm telling you incredibly accomplished for being so young.

1:32Lorne Lucree:Thank God for all this prestige skincare. Glad to have had a career that's been a bit like a dynamic, but I'd call it like a portfolio approach to like, I think, say beauty. So not quite linear, but I'd say purposeful and will make sense as we talk about the brand. But started my career in beauty at L 'Oreal in global marketing, moved to Estee Lauder working at Clinique and kind of technical product development. then moved to a company called Luxury Brand Partners, which was one of the first kind of luxury brand incubators at the time, working on brand called Arnco Hair Care in product development and innovation, so encompassing kind of packaging and formulation, which then expanded to create a brand called IGK in partnership with Sephora at the time.

2:16Lorne Lucree:And then that expanded to create a color cosmetics line called Smith & Cults, a hair care brand called In Common with the 901 Girls, a V76 with Men's Line, and then One Size with Patrick Starr. And then continued my career curious about the operations and manufacturing side, so moved to Voyant Beauty as Chief Innovation Officer. Voyant Beauty is the largest beauty and personal care contract manufacturer in North America, so formulating and filling for a lot of the brands you see in Sephora and Ulta and on actually mass retail shelves. and Mastige retail shelves. So there for about four years and then spent a year and change at Unilever Prestige advising their portfolio brands on innovation strategy with a heavy hand on Tatcha skincare, revamping their NPD portfolio and creating some of the things you see today, like the Dewey Milk Moisturizer and our longevity portfolio.

3:12Dr. Ekta Yadav:That's amazing. Yeah, I feel like you've seen, that's what I mean, like you've like seen this entire landscape. Not only have you been involved, but like see it move, you know? And I think that's one of my biggest questions for you is like, you know, when you were sitting down with a concept, like trying to like map out your concept for your brand, what were some of the major things about the industry that you were like, these are things I want to maybe change or like, you know, just, I don't know, do differently. Like, did you have that conversation with yourself, like internally? Like, where would I, you know, change things or not?

3:43Dr. Ekta Yadav:I don't even want to use the word change, like more like modify or like expand on, you know?

3:48Lorne Lucree:Yeah, I think that. Yeah, well, first, I'm like, I purposely, I think, chose wellness. Well, I think overall, I think where I found success in my career and what actually makes me passionate is, and as a creative developer, is applying kind of cross-category insights to different categories. And I think, you know, before skinification of hair was a thing, you know, was thinking that way humbly, you know, because I think that's, you know, I always found that that's an easy way to get consumers to understand. And that's always the goal for us is to get consumers to buy into the product and get excited without having to educate a ton.

4:28Lorne Lucree:And so that's such so whether it was applying color, color theory and our IGK color, you know, toning drops, which was the first purple drops to tone that you could add in and mix in, which was inspired by cover effects that we brought into hair care. Right. Or or skincare ingredients into into hair care or or Patrick bringing aerosol hair care technology into the settings on tilt on setting spray, like things like that. So I love that because I think that's really fun. And when you look at Wizard, it's literally bringing everything I've loved about, I'd say, beauty, skincare, haircare, and wellness into allergy.

5:13Lorne Lucree:And it all applies, to be honest. It's credible, it's science-backed, etc. But it's all actually, I think, intriguing and provocative to the consumer to get them interested. So when you read a p-page about a nasal spray, it should read a face mist, which is the goal, to get you excited. And that was my goal of trying to kind of think differently about this. And I think that's a reflection of where the industry is moving, is that it's all becoming so gray. We talked about this. It's like everything is melding and like wellness is becoming, beauty is becoming, it's all, and you've seen this mishmash happening, which is awesome.

5:53Lorne Lucree:It's this holistic approach to Inside Out and people thinking holistically about their appearance and that's linked to their mood and how they feel about themselves and it's all, and their sleep and it's all related, you know?

6:06Dr. Ekta Yadav:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I honestly, like the first word that comes to mind for me is longevity now, you know? And I think that is such a solid point you made because wellness was never supposed to be separate. I mean, when I think about it as a scientist, it should never be separate from beauty, right? Because wellness is beauty. Beauty is wellness. And I think we lost that. I remember there were a few years there where we were kind of like floundering. It felt like that, at least, like the beauty industry. And in the sense of like we were making products, products were coming out regularly.

6:40Dr. Ekta Yadav:but that wellness part was just like, where is that? You know, like the overall like play. And so I think it's really fascinating that you've brought wellness forward in such a fun way, in such a real way, because like, you know, and I want to dive into that. Obviously, like allergy, immunology, it's a huge field and it's an incredibly underdeveloped field on the consumer side, as I'm sure you know much more than me. I mean, I can only tell you as a consumer walking down the aisles, you know, when I see these nasal drops that are literally thinning the mucosa, you know, and then I think the damage that's done over time, it's an incredibly outdated area.

7:17Dr. Ekta Yadav:So, you know, let's talk about that a little bit. You know, what was that initial homework that was there for you when you were trying to go into this new category, you know, and trying to understand it?

7:28Lorne Lucree:Oh my God. Well, the hours I spent in CVS and in South Orange, New Jersey, my God, Christ, like i'm sure i'm sure i'm on a list somewhere like that they're like you're on their vip list i don't know maybe i mean hopefully get distribution maybe but i mean what you see is like that aisle is like it's so pharma dominated it's like i'd say a lot of fragmented natural and homeopathic solutions and that's kind of the dynamic happening in the aisle um and i think that's it's been that way for a very long time i think that that's been and the innovation in the aisle has been driven by uh the kind of the movement of these these apis moving from kind of uh prescription only to otc so that's you know the last one i think was in the late in 2016 or 2017 um and that's that kind of drives excitement and then these new new ones become available and that's but it's but it's big headline is it's pharma pharma innovation driven and so dominated.

8:30And that in combination with allergy is just not, it's not like Sephora,

8:36Lorne Lucree:where people are scrolling on their app looking for new, exciting things. People aren't that excited about the product. So they're not shopping proactively, they're shopping reactively. So it's, you know, you wake up, you have allergies, you're going to the store and you're just buying whatever is there. And so that's in combination, then it's just kind of like you, there's not a whole lot of incentive to put new innovation out because consumers aren't really, you know, looking for it on the other side because they're just going and buying whatever is there. And so I think that is, that is, that combination just hasn't really, like, I think, spurred a lot of innovation in the aisle, to be quite honest.

9:13Lorne Lucree:So that to me was an unlock. We did a lot of, we did a 600 person survey at the beginning of this journey to understand because I know why allergies suck for me, but I wanted to understand why they suck for everybody else. And yeah. We realized only 7 % of consumers said that they would be loyal or extremely loyal to their current solutions, which makes sense because I've never heard – I'll tell you, I've had a lot of conversations about allergies. Never once have I had one that was like, let me tell you about how much I love my current, you know, solution, my current, you know, nasal spray. Like, never.

9:46Lorne Lucree:Yeah, like just my current thing to watch it.

9:48Dr. Ekta Yadav:Yes, never.

9:49Lorne Lucree:So that's, you know, so very low loyalty. 84 % would change for a better performance. 78 % would change for better experience. So there's this like performance, but experience matters. And that was to me was the unlock of like, if it tastes better, if it looks better, if it doesn't, if it doesn't thin my mucosa, if it doesn't burn, if it like all these things where you're like, my God, like, what are they doing to you? Christ, like, oh my God, like, like, so like, if you can close that gap, then like, then that's like, that's like a holy grail. So that's what we had in mind of like, listen, like it's got to be efficacious, but actually if you can make it like taste all those things from all the things from beauty and wellness, like if you make it taste good, if you make it like feel the scent, the texture matters, the packaging matters, all those other things matter that we know from beauty.

10:39Lorne Lucree:That's the thing. So it's like, you know, anyway. Yeah.

10:42Dr. Ekta Yadav:No, I mean, that's brilliant. And I love your insights because it really makes you think because beauty, I think the thing that beauty has done right, I think for so long is that exactly what you were saying, that discoverability component where you can play, you can have fun with it, you can find something that vibes with you, you know. And I think that really is something like health, like more health heavy products, you know, like pharma based products. Like they just don't think about that. The consumer experience is everything. It dictates, you know, if you talk to any clinician, they'll tell you like, you know, getting people to stick to their medication regimen is a huge problem.

11:18Dr. Ekta Yadav:You know, patient compliance. Like and where does patient compliance come from? You got to want to use the thing, you know. And it's like if you don't have options and if you don't vibe with whatever you're using or if it's not accessible to you easily, you can't drop it in your bag, take it with you, you're not embarrassed to pull it out. Those kind of components, if that's not built in, patients are not going to use their products. And it's going to lead to worsening of symptoms and worsening of everything. So, yeah, that's huge what you mentioned. And I think that's why I'm so fascinated with how you have approached wizard wellness is this idea of like, no, let's keep it efficacious, but let's bring in the fun part, you know, and that's really cool.

11:58Lorne Lucree:Thank you. Yeah. And the compliance that like actually, if you talk to any allergist, nasal rinsing is like, do you neti pot, by the way? Have you ever neti potted?

12:07Dr. Ekta Yadav:I have before. I don't currently.

12:09Lorne Lucree:So it's like the number, it's the number one recommended way to prevent or alleviate allergy symptoms. So because it's just like cleansing your body, it makes sense logically, but people don't do it because it's a lot of friction, right? You know, like boil water, you know, the whole thing. I'm like, every time I move, I have like, you know, 600 salt packets in my house that I throw away because it's like I never inevitably like never, you know. uh and uh i think but the key actually the unlock with it is actually it's most efficacious when you do it preventatively when you when you start ahead of time but nobody you don't consumers aren't trained to think about it and that's actually when we talk about longevity i think that's the interesting thing of like uh convincing consumers to actually do things before the symptoms appear right so like you know when you're like making them believe actually that's you can actually have your like sliding doors moment.

13:01Lorne Lucree:You can actually, you can control your destiny. And actually, you know, if you start to incorporate this into a regimen or ritual ahead of time and start to like live a bit more of like a wellness or more holistic, you know, approach. And so that's like the long-term goal, I think at the end of the day about compliance, actually using it daily. That's when you have the real unlock for sure.

13:22Dr. Ekta Yadav:Absolutely. Yeah. And I like that you, you know, I like that we're tying in longevity here because for a long time, I think longevity is getting a bad rap, you know, and it makes me kind of sad to see that because it's like the, I don't know, the term is like the first term I've seen in a long time that like defines like truly taking care of yourself for a long time, you know, and it's like, I don't know, I just, I feel like these are the kind of products I think about. When I think about longevity, I'm thinking about what is my everyday care that I'm using for myself. And so I think these products play such a huge role because people now are more health conscious than ever before.

13:59Dr. Ekta Yadav:We're always thinking, how can I enhance my routine? How can I fix something? Whatever it might be. But if you don't have the options available, there's no progress. Whether that's medicine, whether that's consumer behavior, it doesn't matter. Across the board. And so that's where I find it to be amazing that you launched. Now, I want to dive in because I know you've definitely done your homework. The efficacy is there with the products. Let's talk about the nasal environment, the nasal barrier compared to something like the skin barrier. Educate us a little bit on the actual science of everything that you kind of had to do a deep dive yourself into before you were formulating and creating the products.

14:36Yes.

14:37Lorne Lucree:So I think when I was kind of initially had this aha, you know, the short story was I was traveling. I used actually nasal spray that was actually performed that was natural. And the IL was like a really beautiful IL, you know, as a product developer, we love these things, right? So I was like, oh my god, this reads like a pee page. I'm like, what? Or like a Sephora pee page. I'm like, why don't, I'm like, why does, it looks like a face mist. And so I started going into this rabbit hole of like, why don't more allergy products get me this excited? And so then it was like checking these boxes of like, is it regulatory?

15:15Lorne Lucree:Is it manufacturing? Is it science? Like, what is it that's like holding people back from entering this category and disrupting? Like there's no armor of allergy, right? or, you know, or grooms of allergy, right? So, so the science piece of it, that was actually inspired by a lot of the work we're seeing in skincare and gut actually around microbiome, you know, seeing upstream around like, more so moving from this idea of like, respecting the microbiome, microbiome friendly, which is great, actually formulations to actually more like, of precision microbiome approach. So like utilizing specific, you know, fibers or prebiotics or whatever it might be to, and probiotics or postbiotics to specifically modulate the microbiome to do things, right?

16:10Lorne Lucree:So to actually perform almost like an active ingredient to deliver benefits. And like, so we're seeing it in skincare, you're seeing brands that specifically like lower the levels of staph aureus on the skin to treat eczema, right? So, or like gut products as well that treat kind of leaky gut or things like that. And so that was like, okay, well, would the same theory apply to the nasal passages, right? Like, so this, then this started this whole like rabbit hole of like, okay, does the nasal passages have a microbiome? Like what, like what, like what? So it turns out, yes, they absolutely do.

16:46Lorne Lucree:And then the nasal passages, and so the cool thing is, which I talked about cross category before is like all the same rules apply is actually the literature, which is still, I have to say, I have to caveat this, which is the really cool thing is that like all this science is really still emerging because there hasn't been a ton dedicated to the nasal microbiome and the science that still is emerging within the allergy field, but it is actually credible and is coming validated by some of our sources that, you know, competitors, but essentially the literature shows that those with, most likely with chronic rhinitis, most often show a microbiome in dysbiosis, right?

17:24Lorne Lucree:So that they often show an overabundance of certain types of bacteria and fungi, that then, when that microbiome is dysbiosis, it then shows a relative weaker nasal barrier, epithelial barrier, which then allows, essentially the The same difference allows more of those allergens, exposomal pollutants, etc., to penetrate and kind of kick off that inflammatory response, which then you see results in that kind of cascading effect, which is then all of the allergic responses that you see. So I then worked with a specific partner that only focuses on microbiome. We come through all the literature, figured out this was not a week endeavor.