The Truth Behind Chemical Peels, Lasers, and Skincare Treatments for All Skin Tones ft. Megan Francis

0:02Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Skin Anarchy. This is your host Ekta and I'm really excited about our episode today because we're going to be diving into the world of aesthetics, which I think is kind of a gray area for a lot of us because there's so much to learn and there's so much to know and just not enough information out there. So with me today, I have the very talented Megan Francis, who's a board certified nurse practitioner and the founder of NM Aesthetics and Wellness, which is a top rated privately owned and operated medical spa in the Arlington, Virginia area. And so I'm super excited to host Megan and learn from her today.

0:38So welcome to the show. I'm so excited to host you, Megan. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk about all of this with you. Yeah, no, I would love to get started, but to learn more about you and really what got you into the aesthetic space, if you could tell us a little bit about yourself. Well, I've been a nurse since 2010. I've been a nurse practitioner since 2018. I've worked in a

1:03ICU. I did home health, home health, wound care, but the regular traditional healthcare system, unfortunately, does take its toll. It kind of breaks you in a lot of ways, like the brutal schedule, the death and dying, private equity, buying up all the hospitals, making staffing really bad. That's a whole nother issue that we could talk about on a whole nother podcast, but I wanted a way to still help people. I got into nursing to help people. I've been in and out of doctor's offices my whole life, physical therapy, and I had back surgery and I was like, oh my God, these nurses are amazing. I want to do this.

1:38So my why has always been to help people. It just looks a little bit different now. And aesthetics was a way to help people feel good without all the rest of the traditional stress and insurance and death and all of that that comes with it. So yeah. Yeah. No, that's really cool. I'm glad you, I mean, you brought up a lot of really really important points though and it's very valid what you said I think also when it comes to like patient care like it's easier when you do it on your own you're right let's it's kind of like okay I can take more control over this stuff so that's I resonate a lot with that so for sure and that's why I actually started my own practice though because even in aesthetics unfortunately there's a lot of people in it for the wrong reasons so you really want to find a provider that cares.

2:27And for me going out on my own, starting my own practice, I know that everyone who works for me feels the same way and we can always strive to do the right thing. And it's always patient first, which is what medicine is supposed to be. So for me, that was like a no brainer that I have to do it this way. So how was that transition for you? Like going from this, like, you know, the mainstream hospital life into creating your own business and your own practice. I mean, what was that transition like for you in terms of just all the details that come with it? Yeah, well, I think my experiences helped.

3:01I went from the hospital, then I transitioned to home nursing. And before I was a nurse practitioner in home nursing, you're very autonomous, actually. You're alone a lot, 99 % of the time. And the collaboration with doctors, you know, you're kind of leading the way. You're the one in there. So that was a really nice stepping stone to becoming more autonomous. And in the ICU as well, nurses are pretty autonomous more so than other units. So those nursing positions helped me. And but I will tell you, starting your own business is not for the week. It is definitely a lot. And you've got to have a really good lawyer and you've got to have good consents.

3:42And oh, my God, the amount of licensing I have for business licensing, insurance licensing, all of that. It's a lot, but it's so worth it. You know, I just try to take it one step at a time. I did grow pretty quickly. So it was really vital to get staff and to help me with that growth. Cause I actually started as a concierge provider out of my car and traveling from house to house. And that was a way that I could do it with, you know, low overhead. And then I worked out of my home and then I worked into a little solo salon. And now I'm in my big practice in Arlington, which is right over the bridge from DC.

4:16And we're expanding that now. So, you know, It can get overwhelming, but I think if you just take it one step at a time, you can do it. It's just going to be 90-hour work weeks, but it's worth it. No, that's really cool, though. And congratulations for really having the grit to do that. I know that it must be so much work. Especially with aesthetics, I have so many questions because I feel like, like I said earlier, it's really a great area for a lot of consumers, including me. And so when it comes to the approach, I would love for you to shed some light here in terms of how do you approach, like in terms of skincare, how do you approach your patients with different ethnic backgrounds and different needs?

4:58I mean, what are the steps that you have to take to make sure that you're able to provide that care to a wide audience? Yeah, so here we call the DC metro area, the DMV, DC, Maryland, Virginia. and here in the DMV, kind of like New York City, we're very, very, very diverse. And I didn't realize how lucky we are to have that diversity until I started speaking and training around the country. Like this area is very diverse and it's really important to treat all skin types. So everybody gets the same approach in that if you walk through the door, no matter what it is you're walking in for, we give you a full assessment.

5:34We talk about skincare, we tailor it to your needs, whether that, you know, you have acne or just anti-aging. But when you get into any kind of skin of color, it really becomes important when you're doing lasers, microneedling, those kinds of procedures. So we have systems in place where how to analyze your skin and, you know, different settings on these devices to make them safe. I actually speak for a company called Cartessa and I love them because traditionally with lasers, like I'm Middle Eastern, I'm Persian and Brazilian, and I couldn't even use lasers. My mom had a laser used on her back in the day and she has hypopigmentation, which is, you know, lack of color, if you will, in layman's terms, permanent because of improper laser use.

6:21But this company now, Cartessa, we have these devices that can be used on the darkest skin types, which was unheard of because I'd be right in the middle. And I couldn't use the lasers of yesteryear, but it's all about having the right device that's capable, then the right setting, because you can have an amazing device and not a competent provider that's never been trained, right? You can buy these machines with a medical license and technically don't need training, right? Nobody trains more than my office. I am a national trainer, but I still train all the time as well. And I'm always seeking out thought leaders and my colleagues and always trying to be better, but we have a whole systematic approach on what to do.

7:01We may treat you with certain like creams and things to prevent any issues down the line. We also have aftercare that's included. So a lot goes into it, but the main thing I want people to know is you need to find a provider that knows that and ask them, you know, that's something called the Fitzpatrick skin scale, where people are rated on this scale from one to six, but it's just not it's not as good as some of the other tools that we have that take in ethnicity into account because technically I would be a three on the Fitzpatrick scale but I'm actually a four when you're doing like something called the Lancer scale which takes in ethnicity that's so interesting because I think when it comes to darker skin types you know and just different skin types, I should say, it's very hard to find information out there.

7:55And, you know, not to mention to do your homework, you know, before you go into like aesthetics, far, a med clinic, because for me personally, you know, I've tried that before where it's like, you know, what do I really need? What does my skin type need? What's going to actually help versus not. So it's good that you have this background and that you're constantly pushing forward with the training and whatnot, because I really believe in that, you know, it's a lifelong learning process in the medical space. So that's very cool. But unfortunately, so many people aren't like that. Yeah, they're not.

8:28And it baffles me like across disciplines, too. I mean, especially in aesthetics, because you guys have so much coming out. I feel like there's always like a new machine or a new laser, you know? Yeah. What's even crazier is I have a lot of patients that come to me, they go to providers that look like them, you know, with darker skin types. And they're going to those providers who don't know how to treat their own skin. And then they end up in our chair. We're fixing problems. We're fixing issues. You really, really have to have a passion for it. And you would think if you look, if you have a darker skin type, you'd be passionate about it.

9:04Right. But people aren't like, I, it's very important to me. Honestly, my life would be boring if I only treated blonde white girls all day, right? Like I love the diversity. I love everything that we have here in the DMV. And my suggestions when going to an aesthetic provider, including if you're getting injectables is asking them, what do they do for training? Like how often are they and how often are they doing it? Have they ever had an ultrasound safety course? Do they have an ultrasound in their office? do how, when was their last cadaver course, anatomy cadaver course? Cause we'll go to these cadaver courses where we're injecting and dissecting to make sure we're safe and then asking them how they treat anyone with skin of color differently.

9:50I love Cartessa the company because they have something called skin inclusive and it is a way to step-by-step assess everybody. Because even if you're like, you know, someone with lighter skin, if you've been out in the sun or burning, you're, you're, you move up on the scale. It's really nice. And it's something to also keep track of, like, don't take for granted your lighter skin tones. What if they're on a medication that makes them sun sensitive, like doxycycline, or, you know, it really encompasses treating, looking at everybody's skin every single time, because there are genetic factors and lifestyle factors that change what your skin is going through at that moment.

10:32So those are my main things that you should ask and anyone worth their salt is not going, weight and salt is not going to be offended for asking that. I don't get offended. I always say all day, does not, the letters behind my name do not as matter as much, as much as like the training. Yeah. No, I love that. That's so refreshing to hear because I won't lie. You know, I think I'm a very annoying patient. You know, they always say, they always say that about us in medical, in the medical field that we make the most annoying patients and I think that it's true to some degree but I always ask so many questions and I don't know if anyone listening out there's similar does but I for me I feel like if a practitioner can't answer your questions you know or if they're not able to like even direct you in the right place or or whatnot it just makes you think yeah or gets annoyed right or just acts like they're irritated by you asking I mean that's a red flag and it may mean that they don't know what they're doing you know I I mean, I hate to say that, but that's what it feels like, you know.

11:36Or they know what they're doing, but they don't care. And that's worse. Not caring to me is worse than anything, right? No one's perfect. You may, like, back when I was learning, people would ask me, like, I don't know how to do that yet, but I will. I remember someone asked me to do neck filler. And I was like, I don't know it yet. She went on maternity leave. She came back and I was like the neck queen. So I have no problems when I was coming up through this saying I don't know how to do something. Once I'm trained, I will do it. Or I don't know, let me just double check. Right. That is me like being a human.

12:08Right. Versus not caring, not caring. You know, that just goes against everything. Because if you care, you're going to do everything you can to make give everyone the best result, but also know when to walk away if that's what you need to do. If you're not appropriate for that. And we say no all the time or tell people no. We won't make you look like a crazy Kardashian or something like that with migrated filler. We just won't do it. And there are providers in the area that will do those things. Right. You know. That's really cool that you're able to speak so openly about that because I know that that is, you know, a concern that many people have had recently.

12:48I've seen it all over social media where, you know, something went bad or like exactly what you said. like the fillers like there's not enough information especially you know I wonder this a lot about the younger generation because they like they're opting in now and I don't know if you've seen this in your practice more and more but from social media it seems like they're coming in more for aesthetic like treatments and you know whether it's filler whatever that might be any injectables and they're not well versed in what to expect and then if there is like any movement of anything like it's like you can see it on their face but it just makes me wonder like did someone not properly educate you about like what to expect later on like in terms of maintenance care or whatnot so it's a very I think buzzworthy topic you know to kind of put this out there that there needs to be an understanding between you and your provider that you know what what can you expect what should you expect you know going forward like even when you get your procedure you're done.

13:48Yeah. I mean, like I said, we definitely do all of that. I send you so much paperwork. It's annoying, but I see with like the Gen Z, we get two types of patients. One that want that crazy fake look that we send people away. I also, we also screen for body dysmorphia. We definitely have said no to some really young kids, but I also understand some people, you know, we unfortunately live in a society where looks matter. And, you know, I think there's a lot of things that can be done for young people tastefully, conservatively. You know, I had a girl come in, I normally do not treat younger patients.

14:26She was 18 and she came in with her mom and she wanted lip filler. And, you know, we've sent plenty of 18 year olds home. Her lips were so, so thin and she was getting picked on and we gave her a very small natural lip and she just looks like a normal person. And to me, I find that I still sleep at night, just fine treating a patient like that, but making someone look like back in the day, a playboy bunny or something crazy again, or Kylie, Kylie way overdid it and looks 15 years older than she should because of improperly placed filler and filler placed too much. Right. I think there is an absolute difference and it's just kind of how different people age.

15:09I have some people in their twenties that look older with nothing done to them because of their genetics. And some people in their forties that haven't needed anything yet because of their genetics. So I think, you know, you just have to, everyone is case by case, but I think if you just, again, patient first, less is more, you know, if you just keep your ethics, it's okay. I don't think there's like a clear cut rule. Okay. You can't get anything until this age but I do think Kylie Jenner and the Kardashians in general are I just use them as the biggest example because everyone knows them but they are like exactly what not to do yeah well I mean I think it's it's important to it's important to recognize you know what works and what doesn't work and what's actually a healthy way to approach aesthetics I mean I think that's a big question I've always had as well as I'm not going to lie to you I've kind of had that fear of turning into another person that looks like they're overdone you know because I'm I'm always scared of that because it's like well what if the person or what if the practitioner I'm going to what if they overdo it and I don't know what's going on because you're in the chair you don't know you know and it's like a you know look at what your provider looks like if they look crazy don't go to them right and I actually got trademark you come to us because you don't want anyone to know you come to us and a few other variations of that, because I just want you to look like yourself, but younger.

16:36So sometimes like we might do like a full facial balancing and inject their entire face. And when they see the mirror, they don't have a big reaction. They're like, I don't really see a difference. And they say that because what they're seeing is their younger face. But when I show them the before and afters, they're like, oh my God, I had no idea I look like that. and to me that's the best compliment because when they're looking in the mirror they recognize themselves it was something it was it's them five years ago 10 years ago maybe 20 years ago if you're some of our 60 year old patients but it's really cool to do that and that's another reason why we take pictures so people can really see the value of what they're getting yeah no that makes sense and i i want to actually ask you about some treatments because i definitely hear a lot of words and the names of these treatments, but just to understand them better, you know, let's talk about chemical peels.

17:32I think that's a really popular treatment amongst a lot of folks out there. You know, what should we know about chemical peels or what do you usually tell your patients when they're coming in for a peel in terms of like what they should come in prepared for or what they should prepare for afterwards? So it really depends, right? Like a lot of people really don't come out of the gate just with a chemical peel. They're usually, if they're going to go that route, it's usually a facial. It's usually something that we can, we have time to talk to them about prep them because genuinely, truly, no matter what you're doing with your skin, getting on a home skincare regimen will make everything better.

18:11It'll make your results better, faster healing time. So we typically are doing a lot of pre-education. Even if you wanted to just book for a chemical peel, at least in my practice, we need to see your face. You can't just book a chemical peel, right? Like you have to, if you're not a current patient, you have to send them pictures. We have to assess you. We have to do a whole, there's a lot that goes into it because otherwise you run into like, you come in for a chemical peel and we determine you're not a good candidate. So in my practice, we like to avoid that and just do a lot of like pre-instruction.

18:44So I think that's really important where anyone wants, if anyone wants to get a chemical peel to know that. And then afterwards, it depends on what kind of peel, right? You can get a very gentle peel where you're only a little bit pink and it's not intense. You can also get a really intense peel where did you, did you ever like sex in the city back in the day? Yes. Oh my gosh. You know that episode where Samantha has her face melted off? Yeah. Those really strong acids are an option, but honestly, I don't see the point in that. There's really no point in that when we have such advanced technology with lasers and other things that can do so much.

19:26You don't need that crazy melt your face off peel. Yeah. No, that makes sense. That makes sense because I feel like that's what everyone expects. Like, you know, literally everyone I've ever spoken to is like, oh gosh, like a peel. Like, you know, you go in and your face just is terrible for like so many days. I'm like, really? Like not every peel is like this. like you know it's not like you know one size you don't have to but that's again where you're trying to go with a good provider yeah that is going to explain all of this to you but honestly for our patients again we do things differently a lot of places you can book whatever you want do whatever you want they really don't care but for us we have to make sure you're the right candidate then we discuss your your goals and if you're willing to do the downtime right you have to be willing to do the town time if not we have other options that are more gentle it'll you'll still get a great result it might take longer to get it all gone right i do like sometimes i'd rather like do a stronger one so i don't have to do as many but everybody's different and everyone's budgets are different so that's why again you really red flag if a place doesn't do any kind of like pre-treatment education or anything like that or at the very least like you know let's say someone slipped through the crack somehow, a good provider, if you're not the right candidate in the chair, they're going to have you go, right?

20:47You have to have a lot of education. And just again, being prepared for potential downtime. But guys, you really do not need to get that melt your face off Samantha feel. I did enjoy that episode, but we don't need it. You know, CO2 lasers. I know I'm throwing words out there but these lasers that would look like that as well you don't have to have that either we have so many great options that do that same thing without melting your face off yeah see that's that's the thing then that's why like originally i had said you know aesthetics is a great space because there are so many options you know and i think that's a wonderful thing i mean don't get me wrong i love that i love that there are options and i love that there are practitioners such as yourself that are so you know like proactive and you're well versed and you know what you're doing and that's amazing to me it's just that I think with from the consumer standpoint it does get confusing you know so again it like really boils down to like ask questions you know like just ask questions if you don't know and and at the end of the day it's not going to be a one-size-fits-all and I think a lot of people but like believe that that it's going to be the same thing.

21:59Like my friend got this. So I also have to go and get the same things done, you know? So all the time, even with like getting neurotoxins done, Botox is the most common name that people know, but not really actually the one that we use anymore. Like we use like other ones like discord or there's other neurotoxins that are actually more popular, but like, they're like, well, my friend got this. I need that. And it's like, girlfriend, you guys have different needs, but people don't get that. And I also want to talk about again, the devices themselves, you know, not all devices are created equal.

22:31There's like laser companies out there that have lawsuits against them because their devices at best don't work, or some of them very painful misleading. Like there's not enough regulation in my opinion for all of these medical devices. And it's not just in aesthetics, it's in medicine in general. Yeah. It's just not enough regulation. So it can be scary, but that's why, I mean, if you really, those questions that I already mentioned, if you're asking that and asking about education and, you know, I post all the time, like my followers see everything that I'm doing and my staff is doing, and we're always training or having a lunch and learn or, you know, all of this stuff, those are all green flags.

23:14I feel like consumers are getting smarter about what the red flags are. And unfortunately, another one Groupon, you should never, never, never, never, never group on your face i have oh god that's so cringe for me she never skimps out on like her ob-gyn or something her sushi and her face like something like that she i don't know the exact quote my realtor patient michelle i i don't know it was a really funny quote but it makes sense like you're not going to scrimp you're not going to get discount sushi right and you don't want to discount your face exactly exactly i mean you should never be buying a groupon for yeah your face like please don't please don't do that no but i want to actually i want to shift gears a little bit because i think there's a lot of you know there's a lot of positive messaging you could you provide for you know anyone tuning in regarding some some very common things like for example sunscreen right we hear a lot about sunscreen but you know it's usually geared towards like the lighter skin tones i would love for you to speak a little better on that and really educate our audience on why sunscreen is important and maybe if you have an example you could provide you know uh just just to educate yeah i mean okay so sunscreen is definitely a hot topic and i personally don't use chemical sunscreens i'm it's funny i'm in this world but i'm a very hippy dippy crunchy person so i use zinc base but zinc has come a long way you don't have to look like that lifeguard you know like the white lifeguard knows they they've come a long way with zinc but i'm just happy when people are wearing sunscreen there something was on tiktok what was it that sunscreen is like gonna kill you or something or poison oh god don't get me started on those like yeah it was something like that like for me there are brands with better ingredients right yeah and every like so without getting too nitty-gritty zinc sunscreen you want to look for non-nano zinc sunscreen because nano very very small particles are actually a lot of plastic and those actually can cause cellular damage whereas regular zinc does not do that so I'm everything that we carry here is safe and that's what I personally use on my body I'm very into ocean life and a lot of those chemical sunscreens or nano zinc is not ocean safe and there's so much greenwashing in the aesthetic or in that space where things are reef safe.

25:43I look in the ingredients and they're not, but I, I really think everyone needs sunscreen, including our darkest skin types. Every skin cancer is affects everyone, right? It does affect people with lighter skin tone more, but it is definitely a, what's the word I'm looking for? Misconception that darker skin types don't need sunscreen yeah that's that's the biggest one i think and i think you know i agree with you that we don't have to be archaic with our options you know i think a lot of times many many people many consumers shy away from sunscreen because they're like no i have that white cast and you know i just can't get away from it and it's like no like i know for a fact there's brands you know that are now they have like the clear sunscreens now we're like literally can't tell you're wearing it.

26:33So sunscreens. So there needs to, so twofold. I actually went on a mission. I think it was last year, a year before where even brands we didn't carry, I was doing over the counter brands. I was trying, I think it was Eustarin that made one that didn't have a white cast was cheap and on the darkest skin types. I literally made it my mission because I got a lot of heat online saying, no, there's no mineral sunscreen that works for darker skin types but i have the united nations working for me so i tried every single sunscreen on all of my staff so i could find it because i was so passionate about that but second thing we need so in some ways we don't have enough regulation and in other ways it's weird our regulations in like korea and other countries they have sunscreen technology light years ahead of us that we don't have in this country that work on everyone are reef safe don't cause cancer aren't full of chemicals but the fda like they let us have food coloring and other poison in our food but then we can't have these other sunscreens it like doesn't make sense it's kind of nuts yeah medic regulations are crazy but i'm hoping one day these sunscreens that are available abroad will be available to us as well but we need a lot of changes when it comes to government and government involvement in all of this we need more in some places and not less than others but different it's just like strange weird rules that don't make sense yeah no i i feel you i've seen that myself is that you know that the east is just i mean they're just like selling in this space you know of just finding options and technologies that are very relevant and that are very you know forward-minded and science forward when it comes to this i think it's just interesting to see how things trickle down into the west you know because we get some options like i don't i know for a factor like you said there are some brands that are offering some things you know in terms in the sunscreen space but not nearly enough you know it's like we shouldn't still be having this if you ask me it shouldn't even be a conversation about like i have a white cast you know like we shouldn't have that again we know just like we shouldn't have poison in our food and all of the other things that we have it shouldn't be allowed it shouldn't be there but here we are you know exactly exactly and speaking of sunscreen and i guess sun exposure i want to talk a little bit about hyperpigmentation with you and i know it's a really common concern across pretty much all skin tones, especially darker skin tones.

29:13In your practice, how do you treat hyperpigmentation? Like what are some of the most, well, what's your protocol first of all? And also what are some of the more popular treatments that you have for that? So budget is always a factor, but hyperpigmentation is, you got to attack it from a lot of different ways, right? Skincare is the basis of everything. So we have different creams that inhibit pigment and we kind of work with patients to figure out what's the best one for them. A couple of new products actually just launched something from a brand called Epicutus Arctogenin. I'm actually really excited about.

29:47It's totally different than just regular vitamin C and it's supposed to be really cool. We're just learning a lot about it. I just started using it last night. So there's things coming in the skincare world, but what we have now already is really great. Then the things you can do are microneedling, lasers, chemical peels depending on the, you know, what is causing the hyperpigmentation? Like, is it melasma? Is it post inflammatory? Like, did you get like a scar or something? But I'm really excited. Like we have a Pico laser, which is the gold standard for melasma. And so that's something we're using a lot of, and it's totally safe because it's, it uses like a photoacoustic effect, which is a fancy way of saying it's not, it's not heat.

30:33It's that photo acoustic goes in and breaks up the pigment and your body kind of flushes it out. So great for all skin types. Great for melasma because a lot of people's melasma is triggered by heat. So that's really cool. And yeah, again, but it all does start with the skin, really good home skincare routine with like a vitamin C, you know, some sort of pigment inhibitor and sunscreen is very vital. And then you just go from there. And those not only make your results better, but help prevent it from coming back again. That makes sense. Yeah, I'm glad you I'm really glad you like are spotlighting the fact that it does matter if you have a good skincare routine, you know, because I do get a lot of questions about this.

31:19And I always wonder to myself, I'm like, well, I guess there's no paper out there you know telling you like on pub med that you have to have a skincare routine but i mean the proof is in the math you know yeah it's clinical skincare routine but all of our products like i was just speaking for elastin which is a skincare brand i use a lot in my own routine they have so many published papers on the efficacy of all of these products the arctogenin from epicubus i just told you about they have studies so you know they're going in there and checking like hydration they're checking like literally if you know collagen and elastin are being built so they're the medical brands do have the science to back it up and i'm a science girly so for me i love these brands that have this information and i really want everyone to know that anything over the counter whether it's cheap saint ives too expensive la mer it's junk la mer is the biggest joke on earth and when i see celebrities endorsing it i'm like this is exactly why we can't have nice things like why do i need to celebrity is thinking la mer is like the same ingredients in saint ice grub same ingredients as kylie cosmetics like medical grade skincare is tested it is proven it's not just filled with water or alcohol you know or drunk elephant that's a big one for the millennials.

32:44It's all junk. It's all junk. Whether it's cheap or expensive, don't waste your money. And I used to use like natural brands, which are great. They're not doing much. They're not going to hurt you like some of the like St. Ives will, but they're not really doing anything for you. So it's really important to go see, you know, an esthetician, a nurse, nurse practitioner, PA doctor that really specializes in skin. Yeah, no, I think that that's, that's really interesting because i i think that when skincare brands come out with these like new technologies and these new ingredients people kind of like i don't know they they look over it a little bit they're like oh it's just another you know another thing but it's not true like there's a lot of papers now like you said like a lot of these brands are genuinely telling you like no we have the clinical data and we can show you that this works so you know it's worth looking at and It's worth reading.

33:37So I'm glad you highlighted that and brought that up because I think a lot of consumers, they kind of, we tend to, I think it's human nature to lump everything up into one big box and think everything's the same. But there is a big difference between quality and just flow. And, you know, just way of pricing. Yeah. It really is. Again, somewhere like here, we will find something in your budget that will work for your goals, but it's truly better to work with a professional to do that so you get the most bang for your buck and you're not wasting it on silly things. Yeah, absolutely. I love that.