Uncover The Unique Needs of Melanin-Rich Skin with the Founders of Brownkind

0:02Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Skin Anarchy. This is your host Ekta and I'm really excited to introduce you guys to this brand today because I think when it comes to anyone who is suffering from skin an ary skinnery skinner.

0:30more options in the space, creating more versatility in the space. And so without further ado, I'd love to introduce you guys to the founders of Brownkind, which is a beautiful brand that's really geared towards these concerns. Dr. Abhijit Desai and Dr. Gauri Desai. Welcome to the show, Dr. Abhijit and Dr. Gauri. I'm so excited to host both of you. Thank you so much, Ekta. Really nice of you to invite us on this and really appreciate what you have been doing over the last years, you know, in terms of giving a space for brands with skin of color. Thank you very much for that. Pleasure to be here, Iktar.

1:05Lovely meeting you like this and always a pleasure to kind of talk about Brownkind and, you know, things to do with it. Absolutely. No, it's truly an honor to host you both. And I can't wait to learn more about your background because I know you're both so highly accomplished in your field. And I would love to start off there. Dr. Abhijit, maybe you could get us started with just telling us about what really sparked your interest in dermatology and led you to creating a brand. Well, it's a slightly long story, but I'll make it as short as possible. Okay, but so actually I've been in actual clinical dermatology practice in Mumbai for almost 25 years now.

1:47And being in Mumbai, have been privileged to see almost every shade of brown from the light end to the dark end of the spectrum you know and over the years seeing many patients it was always a little disappointing you know for seeing that all the multinational brands which came out with skincare line over the years have always given this narrative that one size fits all but when it comes to skin of color with actually treating patients in our clinic we've noticed that that's not true the the signs of aging when it comes to skin of color are really different. They are uneven skin tone, patchiness, dullness, pigmentation, dark spots.

2:26But the narrative has always been, you know, look for fine lines and wrinkles. You know, they do come up, but they're always, you know, late. They don't come up so early when it comes to skin of color. You know, in our practice, we try to educate almost everyone who came, middle-aged patients, slightly older ones, you know, young people as well. and the main thing which they were scared about was doctor what should i do for my early signs of aging which is fine lines and wrinkles and as the consultation started they used to talk about patchiness dullness and pigmentation but they were really worried about what was fine lines and and wrinkles so you know that's where we felt that this has been a lot of misguidance over the years when it comes to signs of aging when it comes to skin of color and then actually when our own daughter who's 23 now two years back she asked us one day you know at home that dad what can I do to prevent fine lines and wrinkles and I was like you know this is here we are trying to educate one person at a time but our own daughter in our house is asking us this so we need to do something which is for people at large just you know you know educating one person at a time won't do and that's where we really thought that we should get down and start some skincare line which not only talks about skin of color treatments, but also actually acts when it comes to the unique needs of skin of color.

3:51Right, yeah. No, that really, that speaks to me very heavily because I think that it's a space that's not addressed at all, you know, in the right way, in my opinion. I mean, I think that, I mean, Dr. Gory, I would love for you to actually chime in as well, you know, on the questions before I start ranting. But yeah. Thank you, thanks. So like Abhijit has been saying, you know, we've been in practice for over two decades each. And while he is a dermatologist, I'm a trained pathologist. And I have studied skin, you know, kind of I like to say that he looks at it from outside in and I look at it from inside out with background knowledge of what melanin actually looks like, what the other differences are other than the fact that we have melanin, how the other layers of skin differed a little bit, how much collagen and elastin is there, how the, you know, cell thickness is all of that.

4:47So as a team, when we, you know, we've been working in clinic together, we've realized that there are differences in the signs of aging or in the chronology of that, because of these actual anatomical, you know, differences at a microscopic level. So that's how, you know, something that we decided that not just teaching people, but there needs to be something available for people to pick up off the counter, right? Because everybody cannot go to a dermatologist and get a one-on-one session. So that's where we decided that, you know, we need to be sure that there are products that are actually formulated, keeping in mind the needs of brown skin and keeping brown skin at the center while developing so that there is, you know, other than corrective treatments, which there are a fair few available, but creating an awareness of prevention.

5:44and you know how to delay these signs like dullness like patchy pigmentation like uneven tone dark spots which appear so you know I think for that reason we actually came up with the brand and even as we were you know discussing names and stuff I think brown kind the name kind of you know sums up what we really wanted to do you know brown is our skin tone you know the people that we want to cater to and kind is about actually showing kindness to our skin not using harsh products using effective ingredients that are still gentle and do the work slowly and within the word brown kind is o-w-l which is own it is for owning our tone for owning everything that it stands for you know the resilience the strength that we all one way or the other kind of come with you know all of the brown community.

6:43So I think that kind of sums up what we really intended to do. I love that. That's such a powerful message too. I mean, I think, you know, in the world we live in now, we look at, I think, darker skin tones and please tell me like if you disagree, but I, the way I see it, you know, we look at brown skin tones and we think there's just one problem, you know, that they're dealing with. Like, I can't tell you guys how many times, you know, I'm not a dermatologist, but I get asked this question and there people tell me, well, yeah, hyperpigmentation is the main problem right and i'm like no there's so many other there's so many other things you know it's not yeah it's it's not just one thing and one size fits all as dr gory said i mean it's it's really about this versatility that comes with brown skin tones i mean we have so many shades to think about and we have so many different variations of like melanin concentrations in those skin tones like i don't know how our industry is kind of has overlooked it for so long you know, in the sense that, yes, there are products out there that are like, you know, focused on hyperpigmentation, which is great to me.

7:47I mean, as a consumer, I look at them and say, yeah, okay, we need that. But at the same time, I think, Dr. Ray, you mentioned this. I mean, you know, there's other options as well. Like there's things like, well, uneven skin tone, you know, that might not be hyperpigmentation. It might be just blotchiness to our skin, you know, that we want to kind of mitigate and improve. And so it's really a conversation, I think, that needs to be had, you know, in this space, because I haven't really heard much about anything other than hyperpigmentation. So yeah, it's very fascinating for me. And I would love to actually ask you guys, you know, when you were looking at the formulation aspect for the brand, I mean, what were some of the ingredients or maybe even the theories that you were really looking at you know in terms of targeting these skin concerns I mean where did the process begin for you in terms of making a list of this is what we're trying to target I think I think Gauri I think Gauri I always say that now Gauri is the core to this you know so I think Gauri you can take this because this is your research of ingredients and things like that sure so you know like I was saying when we were talking earlier the the intent was to have ingredients that are gentle because these are going to be picked up off the shelves by everybody and there isn't anyone you know kind of a trained person to really supervise the use of it and you know how much you apply for how long you apply do you go out in the sun after applying something and whether that makes a difference so we needed something that was safe across larger groups of people and yet effective.

9:24So I think that's where our basic kind of, you know, research started. This all of this, I think, happened during the pandemic, when the, you know, clinics were shut, and we had some time on hand. So it's taken, like, over, I think, two, two and a half years for us to actually come up with the formulations. We used some, you know, ingredients that come from even ancient forms of medicine like our even tone defender formula which is a part of all of our ingredients actually has amla, thilanthus emblica which has been used in traditional Indian medicine for like over 5000 years I think but in addition to that it also has modern research you know there are papers that vouch for its effectiveness for you know the level of antioxidants that it has for the vitamin C that it provides so there is modern medicine research also done on it we also have rainbow algae as a part of our even tone defender formula which again is something that is more of a new age ingredient because marine products are still being you know they're still new but again it's something that has been studied and more and more studies are still coming through so we've just made sure that all of the ingredients that we use have scientific backing because i feel like you know trends we felt would come and go but science always stays you know so we need something that is backed by science i think that is basically yeah that's that's basically the even tone defender formula which as gauri mentioned runs across all our products so in various concentration whether it is the Indian gooseberry, whether it is the brown algae, whether it is the cacao, everything runs across all brown kind products.

11:20Wow. No, that's really cool because I think that, you know, it's interesting to see what ingredients are used in products that are geared towards, you know, evening out skin tone because we only hear about one thing and I'll be honest with you, you know, for me, it's always terosinase inhibitors. That's all I hear about. So it's very fascinating to hear that there is there's a lot of different ingredients that work very beautifully. And and I mean, I love your products, personally speaking. I've been using them and I really, really enjoy their. Yeah, no, I really enjoy them. And I think that they're not only enjoyable, but like the fact that they are so efficacious and they're working on a deeper level.

12:00I mean, that's that's the main thing that consumers right now they need, you know, because at the end of the day, like your skincare has to work for you i'm a huge advocate for this you know and i think all of us are in the sense that skincare is part of this beauty community but like it's so much more it's a medical you know there's a integration with medicine here obviously you know and so there needs to be efficacy in our products that are geared towards darker skin tones and so your products are you know they're really heavy hitting products and so i really i love them i would love to discuss though you know in terms of like your own your opinions you know in terms of representation of you know darker skin tones what have you seen in your practice and you know what are some things that you think the industry might be doing wrong or maybe could improve on when it comes to representing darker skin tones better in this space and dermatology overall i think you know what i've been seeing over these years that what is missing is actually the knowledge the knowledge of what does it actually mean to be brown or skin of color or melanin-rich skin all these terminologies are existing for quite some time now but when i actually talk to patients when i actually talk to people they genuinely don't know what it means to be brown what it means to be melanin rich how does the melanin act for them what are the good things which melanin bring to the table what are the precautions they need to take about melanin so i think that's predominantly missing which i see as as you just now you mentioned even gauri mentioned there are products for treatment there are products for corrective measures but when it comes to preservation of skin tone when it comes to prevention how does this melanin act you know because always as growing up you've always been told not to go out in the sun will get darker and things like that so people know about this but people don't know about that the same melanin actually prevents you from the fine lines and wrinkles.

13:59Actually, they come much later. But they also don't know that when they go out in the sun, they don't see inflammation because in our skin, the darker skin, the inflammation is not visible. But it doesn't mean that the inflammation is not there. So, you know, all these things are not that easily known by people who want to use these products. So I think the knowledge is missing. And once this knowledge starts spreading, the awareness starts spreading, I think people know how to you know take care of their darker skin. Correct I think to add to what Abhijit has been saying you know when I discuss early signs of aging in skin of color I usually like to give everybody the example of a peach and a pear you know where a peach can be likened to white skin and a pear to skin of color or brown skin so you know as a peach or ripens the skin starts wrinkling first you know and becomes a little crepey and that's how white skin will you know start showing early signs of aging whereas if you look at a pear then as that is ripening it starts developing these spots and they sometimes you know coalesce and become slightly bigger brown patches and then much later when the fruit is over ripening do you actually start noticing fine wrinkling on the skin and this actually is exactly how brown skin would age so uneven tone the dullness the patchiness dark spots they would all come earlier and then would you get fine lines and much later wrinkle actually you know deep wrinkles so I feel like you know that used to resonate a lot with our patients and people that I used to speak to that you know every time you look at a peach and a pear just understand how your skin's needs are different because you're just a different kind of fruit yeah no I like that analogy a lot it's it's really easy to comprehend and I really like it.

15:50I mean, I think that, you know, there's a lot of misconception as well as far as like melanin rich skin. I mean, I think we do get a lot of questions about, you know, what are the differences between darker skin tones and lighter skin tones? And I know that we discussed some here, you know, like I had brought up the hyperpigmentation, but also when it comes to, you know, I want to ask this question because for our listeners, when it comes to things like sebum production and oil production, you know, I've always heard that, you know darker skin tones run more oily they have more needs for like you know just more mattifying products or things that can help control that sebum production i would i just want to clarify this dr abhijit if you could shed some light on this i mean is there a true difference there that you've noticed in your patients as far as this component you know or what's oh yeah yeah actually honestly very very much yes it is a scientific thing that the darker skin tones are inherently more oilier compared to the to the much lighter of the caucasian skin tones so that's why this problems of excessive oil production sebum and that's the reason why you know over the years we have been advising in our practice and that's what we have carried on in our products as well that to keep the products lighter to keep the product you know lightweight because anything which is heavier can clog the pores and once again you get the same you know breakouts and zits and things like that so inherently the skin of darker skin tone is much oilier yeah at the same time i think what we've been noticing is that as the skin ages at a point it suddenly starts becoming dry so then people end up using heavier moisturizers because they think that now you know they're facing dry skin but then because of that kind of you know because the skin is prone to become oily sometimes it's suddenly because you've applied a heavier product starts becoming oily again like a rebound oiliness thing so you know it's a little tricky so we always ensure that our patients try and use lighter products more number of times ones that kind of get easily absorbed into the skin and don't just stay on feeling sticky you know moisturizing has to be providing hydration to the skin not only preventing evaporation preventing evaporation is one aspect but it should provide hydration for which it needs to get absorbed not just stay on top of the skin feeling slick absolutely no i think that's a really really solid point gory i i noticed that as well that you know as winter comes around and you know we're getting into the the drier colder months now you know we are seeing a lot more products that are just they're heavier you know they're like a lot of like kind of like night creams almost I mean I see a lot of those you know kind of coming up and and people really gravitate towards that and and they want to have this like heavier routine during the drier months but I mean you have to understand your skin I think you know at the end of it it really does boil down to what we were saying earlier I mean the education component where you have to look at your skin as a consumer and say what do I need you know it doesn't matter if it's like November or December you know do I need that really heavy moisturizer or do I just need maintenance care as I've been doing all year round so for all the listeners out there I really encourage you guys to kind of take that step back and then you know reconsider before you make like impulsive decisions to switch your you know products or whatever it is you know in terms of heavier heavier solutions so I'm a huge believer in that I know I've made that mistake before as well so i definitely fall into it everybody has it that's why i feel that you know the more and more awareness the more and more knowledge spreads about how the skin of color is actually and i think i think these problems will be solved by many i agree and you know i want to i want to actually bring this up because you're both so you're knowledgeable in this area and i i think this is a great time to have a conversation about this is i know that in air like certain parts of the world especially like you know i know india like being indian myself like we know this it's a big part of you know just knowing this about the community that there is a issue of like with like skin lightening creams you know in certain parts of the world i know a lot of african consumers also have you know said that this is also a big component i mean i want to spread some awareness about why we should not be doing that you know because i still see like consumers now like you know influencers or whatever on social media and they're talking about like these skin lightening creams these lightening products and i would love for you both to just share some wisdom here for for listeners that might fall into that category because i think there's so much misinformation and they're almost like these products are marketed in a predatory way you know for people to like because you know as we've been discussing this whole time hyperpigmentation all of these problems that come with darker skin types, I think they leave consumers in a place of feeling like we don't have options, you know, and that we don't have anything made for us.

20:52And so we resort to these really kind of, I think, polarized methods to try to fix those problems. But it's wrong and it's unhealthy. And I'd love to just take a minute to address that and talk about it, if you don't mind, and just share some opinions. of course i think like you mentioned you know people with south indian heritage uh south asian heritage have actually at different times heard about bleaching agents fairness creams all of that like you said because of this cultural kind of thing towards you know affinity for having light skin what people need to understand is that we are brown because of varying amounts of melanin pigment in our skin and we are genetically built to produce that melanin you know so you you're not going to be able to really change the genetics by applying a facial cream and lightening it what is more important is like we've been discussing all this while that as we age we notice that there are changes in tone and you know there is uneven tone coming in which again is something that automatically reflects on the age of the skin.

22:07And so if you would just maintain skin health, and instead of bleaching, of course, when you have some patchy areas of hyperpigmentation, you might need to treat those particular areas. But that even tone once it, you know, is preserved, or once it's even after correction, once it sets in, that is something which reflects healthy skin. So I feel there is a need to kind of create this awareness so that we break this myth of fair being good. And I think fairness as a part of Eurocentric ideals of beauty is something that we have all been looking at. a lot of the community that we discuss as brown has been under some or the other white skin colonial rule which is where you know white would be kind of the preferred color and you would blend in with the rulers kind of probably also say came you know that is probably somewhere that that's set in so I think it's time to break that whole narrative and I think it will only come when we educate people about what it means to have melanin rich skin that it is not a particular shade of brown nor is it a particular amount of melanin you know so I think yeah I think for sure we've always maintained in our clinical practice that you know even toned skin is healthy and it automatically has a certain radiance about it and one ought to just preserve that rather than you know going for any kind of bleaching absolutely absolutely because at the end of the day people have to understand that skin is the largest organ like any other organ which we give a lot of importance to in our body skin as an organ needs to be really preserved skin health is the most important thing and healthy skin is the glowing skin so there is no two ways about it and i think i think the newer generation the younger generation is definitely understanding this and and we are seeing a lot of people now really understanding and wanting to become more even tone to have healthy skin rather than you know the earlier generation which was as gauri mentioned which had a little colonial mindset which was deep rooted in our upbringing and all that uh you know to be fair as a skin tone but now it's not there and i think this is just the beginning and it will get better and better as we go on absolutely yeah thank you both so much for sharing your viewpoints on this.

24:34I think it's very, very important for us to openly discuss these topics because I just don't see enough education out there. And I, and I agree. I think that it's, it's definitely, hopefully it's going away in the sense that, you know, I'm a millennial, so I know I saw it a lot, you know, growing up and I don't, I'm hoping that it's not as prevalent anymore because it's just, it's sad to see that, you know, especially when it comes to like younger, younger individuals you know young adults they're them resorting to anything that's going to harm them in any way you know that always like kind of is very sad to see so I would hate to see people still using any kind of products like that but I want to actually shift focus a little bit and talk about the actual products that brown kind has you guys have such a beautiful lineup I'm a huge fan of everything but I would love to talk about the SPF specifically because it's such a good product and so good for darker skin tones.

25:28So Dr. Gori, maybe you could tell us about like the formulation of this product specifically, because it's just so wonderful. I really love it. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. With the SPF product, that is again, something that, you know, through our years of practice, we've been talking to all of our patients who come in and be a big advocates of sun protection. And everybody used to have a problem using SPF. that was because of the white cast that it used to leave you know I feel like listening to people and with newer technology coming out with new you know availability of various techniques of putting stuff in together I would like to say it is now possible to make sunscreens that don't leave a white cast and if they don't leave a white cast then you know it just makes it that much easier for people to start using it because like I said that used to be one of the main barriers for people to start using an SPF.

26:25So I think when we were formulating the product we were ensuring that we're using you know sun filters that are approved by the FDA in proportions that are approved but at the same time keeping the rest of the formulation as light as we could because again Then going back to our earlier conversation, skin of color tends to have excess oiliness at some or the other point. So to keep something that is, you know, to keep an SPF product that is light, that you can layer on top of a moisturizer if required and will still not leave you feeling greasy and heavy and clogged. And at the same time to not leave a white cast.

27:05So I think we had a lot of specifications to give when we were getting the product formulated. And then we also got the SPF checked by third party labs and ensured that the SPF level that we were looking at was actually translating into, you know, laboratory results, not just our observations. We tried it with a few of our patients. So I think, yeah, that was the whole process of coming up with the SPF. You know, actually, as Gauri mentioned, and I must say this, and I must thank all our patients as they have been our actual teachers. It is the patients over the years who have taught us what they like, what they don't like, what is the difficulty, how if something like this would have come, it would have been better.

27:48And all that teachings which we got from them, we were able to put this into our formulations. So I would definitely like to acknowledge a lot of learning which you have got from our patients. Yeah, it's been really great learning and a lot of insights from our parents. Absolutely. Yes. That's I love that. I love that you guys have really, you know, kind of formulated things in a way that is resonates with actual people. You know, I think brands sometimes miss that step, you know, where they're not really talking to people before. And obviously, I mean, you have this wonderful community at your, you know, at your fingertips by talking to your patients and learning from them.

28:26I mean, I think a lot of times that homework isn't done, you know, prior to creating products. So I really appreciate that about your brand. And I think that it's just such a wonderful option. I really encourage everyone tuning in. If you are somebody that's looking for efficacious and true options, you know, for just darker skin tones or just in general, I think the products are great for everybody, honestly. And, you know, I've been loving them. Like, they're very lightweight. They're very easy to incorporate in your routine. this is a huge recommendation you know from our end for you to check brown kind out you can go to brownkind.com to really check out the brand look at all the offerings but i really encourage anybody out there that's been struggling to find the right fit for you because maybe you know your spf has a white cast or whatever the reason is really check out the brand it's a beautiful beautiful option but thank you both so much for coming on to the show and sharing so much knowledge with us it's been truly a pleasure to host both of you and to learn thank you very much thank you very much for having us and it's really really it was nice and to talk to you about and trying to spread as much as awareness we can because we really believe in this and and i i feel that you know at some day we wish that a movement will be started for the brown skin you know in terms of preservation of brown skin tone thank you thank you for having us i think we really honored that we would you know we are able to share our views on how and why we came up with brown kind and i think we really hope that with all of the products that we have which i've mentioned this before all the the even tone defender complex runs through all of them which helps in you know preserving the even skin tone and the radiance of skin so i feel like that message that you know that is the key to preserving the youthful look of brown skin is something that yeah i was happy to be able to share and actually just you know it actually represents almost four billion people in the world so you know it's for them for all of us to be seen and heard as the brown skin community is very important i couldn't agree more i think you know this is it's wonderful work that you're doing and i think it's it's so needed you know and to really make people feel like they're being heard and seen you know that is the most important thing and and you guys are just really doing that and i really applaud you for your work and the wonderful brand that you've created so thank you from from the community thank you so thank you thank you thank you so much hey guys so i hope you love that episode please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform We are available on so many different platforms.

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