Well People's Mission to Make Clean Beauty Accessible and Transparent

0:00Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy. This is your host Ekta and I'm really excited about our guest today because I think when it comes to beauty as many of you know clean beauty is definitely on everyone's mind and when it comes to skin and I'm really excited to skin and I'm really excited for you know I'm really good for the skin and I'm really good it. So, you know, without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Shirley Pinkson-Manias, who is the co-founder of the clean beauty brand Well People, and she is also the current head of education for Elf Beauty. She was an early pioneer in the clean beauty movement, in which she pushed the industry forward in this plant-powered, cruelty-free, and EWG verified formulations perspective, you know, that she's been utilizing for Well People.

0:56So I'm really excited to chat with Shirley today and to understand what it truly means to formulate clean beauty products in the cosmetic space specifically. Welcome to the show, Shirley. I'm so excited to be hosting you. Thank you so much for that gracious introduction. And I'm super excited to be here with you today. And I'm excited to talk about all things good for you and clean beauty. Yeah, I'm excited to learn from you. And I would love to learn more about you. If you could tell me a little bit about your background and what got you involved in the beauty space like to begin with I mean I know you've done such amazing work here I'd love to learn about what inspired you to go into this direction with your career.

1:37Thank you I don't know if we have enough time to go through it all but I can give you this short version you know it's funny as I went to school and started out as pre-med and it didn't quite click to me or click with me. And so I started, I decided to pay for school on my own and I worked behind the beauty counter and I actually worked for the body shop back when it was owned by Anita Roddick. And she was a huge mentor to me and taught me how beauty, a beauty sector in its entirety, how there was so much possibility of doing good, just beyond making you feel good on the outside, also feeling good on the inside.

2:23It really clicked and resonated with me. And so I kind of stayed within that space. And, you know, the school part kind of started getting left behind. And I just went full throttle into diving into the beauty space and its potential power to make people feel better about themselves. I also am very creative. So I discovered MAC Cosmetics and held key roles with MAC Cosmetics for about eight years, and then did the same for NARS Cosmetics for about 14 years. And it was in 2000, time is going to start to age me, 2006, roughly, I had noted that a lot of my clients were very excited about making good choices for themselves.

3:10In particular, at this time, there was a lot of talk about parabens and not using anything with parabens in it. And in all my years of beauty, conventional beauty, I have been trained and excited about teaching you how to do the most perfect cat eye, the best smoky eye, how to have the perfect skin. I had not been trained to flip the box over and look at the ingredients. And so when I noticed this conversation and beauty being sparked up, I started to do my research because I do not not, I don't like not knowing things. I do not like being unable to serve my clients at my highest ability. And I did not like what I found.

3:58and I became extremely passionate about learning about the ingredients within cosmetics and how they affected our bodies and how they affect us cumulatively. You know, when you add it all together, there is quite an impact on ourselves. To give you a super fun backstory of Well People, there are actually three founders in the brand. So if you notice, our E is a little bit backwards. It looks like a three. And that is very representative of the three founders who started Well People. There was myself, as you know. And my job was to maintain the performance of Well People, to make sure that you didn't feel like you were making a sacrifice in choosing clean beauty.

4:47Then there's Dr. Renee Snyder, cosmetic dermatologist. her job was to ensure that we used ingredients in well people that were good for your skin and good for your body and then there's james walker and james walker managed our social responsibility so there's our three tenants like those are like mission our mission tenants like that guide us our north stars every day but we each personified them in our roles within well people, which is really, really cool. And the extra cool part is that we're all best friends from college. We met our freshman year. Oh, wow. That's, I love that. I love that you, I love that you described it.

5:30Thank you for telling us that because I think that when it comes to a beauty brand, for me as a consumer, that means a lot to hear that there's so much thought and just even the, you know, the creation of the brand, because it takes so much, right to to not only create something but then to create a vision and bring it to life and connect with people in a meaningful way I think that that whole journey is just as meaningful for us consumers as it is for founders you know and because for me I'll tell you surely you know the best brands for me are the ones that I feel like they care about me as a consumer you know and that can be seen through the DNA of the brand and it really comes down to a lot of the stuff you just discussed, which is, you know, really putting thought into who's going to bring what to the table, you know, so I really value that.

6:21Thank you for saying that. It's so true. And it's, you know, I became a makeup artist, not because I just, I loved makeup. I became a makeup artist because, and not sound like over the top, but I really liked engaging with people, touching people. I like, you know, when I do makeup, I always have a hand on your shoulder. I am very gentle in what I do. And the biggest thing that makes me feel happy is seeing someone transform and not just transform on the outside. It's about that transformation within when I'm able to truly listen and to create. being a makeup artist allowed me to be able to transform an entire person's mood and their entire outlook you know within an hour's time at the most in ways and choosing to be a part of well people and starting well people was a big part of that i was able to physically make you feel and look good or better and enhanced, if you will.

7:32But then most importantly, the most important part is that I was able to make you feel good on the inside about the choices that you were making. Yeah. Yeah. No, that really resonates with me. I think that in the category of makeup, there's a lot of confusion, I would say, you know, because I mean, obviously, you know, the pros you guys know what you're doing and you really understand makeup I think from a very philosophical side too right I mean it's it's a beauty is I in my opinion just as much philosophical as it is like tangible and what we do and I think that for consumers it becomes this constant like tug you know tug of war between finding the best product but then also like does this really earn a space in my life you know in terms of I will I keep coming back to it do I value it enough to keep coming back to it and so I think it's very interesting the makeup space for me in the beauty industry because I think there's a lot that just doesn't get talked about you know from that standpoint of what you said that inner space that inner like what you feel on the inside when you actually feel good about the way your makeup looks or good about the way that you've done something to improve your lifestyle or the way that you you know I guess perceive yourself you know so yeah it's very interesting I I'm really I'm really intrigued though because I want to learn more about like where did you find the white space when you created well people I mean what was the true white space that you were looking to fill oh there was a lot of white space because we started well people in 2008 is when it was launched but there you can step back a couple years when we were starting to do our research and research on our own, by the way, too, of learning what the big difference between conventional and at that time, I'll use the word natural makeup.

9:25The thing is, if you go take yourself when you put yourself in that little time capsule and go back to 2008, you know, there really wasn't a beauty brand that was clean, that, and, and, you know, you could go into a Whole Foods and look at Whole Body. And that's kind of where our idea started to be truthful, standing there in Whole Body, wanting to make a good choice for ourselves. But just really, none of it felt sexy. None of it really truly performed the textures at the time. Now, natural beauty or clean beauty has come a long way in terms of formulation. Formulations of clean beauty back then were thick or oily.

10:12They did not perform and they didn't always feel good on the skin and they didn't stand up nearly to the test that conventional makeup could stand up to. And so there in itself is the white space that we found. And, you know, in beginning to start product development for well people, those were all of the boxes that we needed to click. I needed to make sure, I remember when I was doing makeup, I would keep my well people samples in my kit and I would not tell my clients what I was using on them. You know, it was just in a typical little, you know, I would do, I'd slice off pieces of the makeup and put it onto a palette so that they wouldn't know what I was using or what brand I was using.

11:02Afterwards, I'd ask, how does your face feel? How long did it stay on? Get some really great feedback from my personal clients. In the end, I would then say, guess what I used on you? I used a cosmetic that is based in natural ingredients. They'd be like, What? No way. There was a perception, you know, the misperception that natural could not perform. And for very good reason, reason, but I made it my mission to prove that we could make it perform. And luckily, I found formulators who were so excited about working with me in creating a cosmetic, you know, that could go toe to toe with conventional.

11:45It just became a super great challenge and a super fun challenge. And we learned so much along the way. Yeah. I mean, I think when it comes to clean beauty, there's, I mean, I won't lie. There's a lot of, there's a lot of people who use that term, I think, you know, and it means different things to different people. So I would love to learn what you feel like truly, like what is a clean beauty commitment? Like, what does that mean to you? My commitment level goes pretty high right there. And so I almost have trouble speaking to the word clean, you know, because it has so many definitions associated with it.

12:24For us, it's all about transparency. So we lead everything we do with the goal of not being afraid to be transparent. If we can't be transparent about it, we're simply not going to do it. We are also going to lead through education, not fear. So there is no room for fear mongering here. Life is hard enough as it is. So, you know, we are not here to judge. We are here to love. Say that over and over again. But what we are here to do is take the pressure away from you as a consumer in making choices that are good for you. So we have restricted over 2 ,900 ingredients from our cosmetic. We are affiliated with the Environmental Working Group.

13:12and I'm happy. I'm not sure. I know you just spoke to Ken Cook, so you're very well versed. Very well versed. I mean, Dr. Echda, we were the very first color brand to be EWG verified and to join their program. Oh, wow. The very first. And I'm very proud to say that on this very day, we are the brand that has the most the color brand that has the most EWG verified products so we are you know we are we are not only a pioneer within this industry but I actually feel that we were a pioneer within the EWG verification process and the birth of that process in itself I go back with Ken I go back with Jocelyn Weil we just did an event together here in Brooklyn.

14:04And it was, it's like saying, you know, just they're like saying old friends when we meet up together. That commitment of EWG verification tells the consumer, A, we're doing everything we can to care about you, to care about the environment. What that badge does though, for you is that when you shop for well people, You can flip over a box. You see the EWG verified badge. You don't need to scour the internet and read every single ingredient. I do advocate for reading about ingredients at all times, but when you do see the EWG badge on Well People's products, you can feel very confident that you're making a solid choice for you and your family.

14:54Yeah. No, I love that. I love that you have had this like really kind of you know in your dna from the beginning that mean that really speaks volumes i mean truly i think it's something to really look at and and aspire for towards if you're you know a new brand or there's so many brands nowadays i feel like a new one pops up every day you know in the beauty space and i and i think sometimes with you know just me talking to people and founders i think sometimes it's hard to navigate your way towards this place of am i morally and ethically doing something that is, you know, it's aligned and it's not going to actually harm people in the long run, right?

15:34So that's where it's like, this kind of commitment means a lot, I think, not only to consumers, but even to like, I guess, younger founders to look at and say, yeah, you know, there is a standard and I have to look at that standard and I have to maintain it. And I really applaud you for setting that standard because, I mean, the beauty space is so it's so vast you know and it can things can get lost and and i think the the vision can get lost you know when people are creating brands and putting new products out there that are you know especially now with like tiktok shop coming up and all this there's so many people creating things so it's important to keep these fundamentals in mind and it's it's wonderful to see that well people has done that from the beginning it's really cool i would love to learn though because I know that you know on that note with so many people now looking at beauty I think there people are I think now dissecting the beauty industry a little bit more I mean this is just my opinion but you know they're really looking for more inclusion they're looking for more transparency is every everybody represented equally I would learn love to learn from you you know when you were building one of the first clean beauty brands especially you know being a female founder and keeping all of the things in mind, what were some of the hurdles or challenges that you had to really kind of face and go through to create something like this?

16:57It must have been difficult. It was. When we started, well, people were in the middle of a recession, first and foremost. And so gathering up the funding, we were completely self-funded for most of our existence pre-acquisition. and you know I there was that right like starting first I'll just say it you know out loud and I feel for every founder and I and I love that being a founder it involves such passion and such love and such care to kick something off and to build it and you know in building well people trust me we were not at a lack for passion and the dream was very, very large. For me, especially being Latina, being a part of the LGBTQ plus community, being female, I had a lot of self-limiting beliefs in myself out of the gate.

17:58And so I needed to, and I still do, but I really needed to kind of take that step back and applaud myself and push myself to do what I believed in, you know, which was believing that good for you beauty could be accessible for everyone, believing that well people was going to be a part of a mission that transformed people. You know, I would always tell my team members and we started with a studio in Austin, Texas, and I would tell my team members anyone who walks in this door is here because they're trying to do something good for themselves. So everything we do has to be led with empathy and understanding and caring for them, for that person, first and foremost.

18:51And they are also scared because in leading in 2008 and within in that time frame. Clean beauty wasn't quite understood. Again, I mentioned fear-mongering early on. People were scared. They were afraid of all that. They were very overwhelmed about the choices that they could make in ingredients. So we really had to come from a place of love, from a place of calm, and from a place of good intention. And in speaking, you know, we were really, my partners and I were very face forward. And so we spoke on a lot of panels. We were very open about our journey. And we each and every one of us have our own story to tell.

19:37But there was one thing that became very apparent, which is very apparent right now, is that younger communities were really wanting to make these good choices, but that they couldn't afford them. So, you know, clean beauty launched at very high prices in general back, you know, back in the day. There weren't a lot of affordable clean beauty brands. And I'll be honest too, well people wasn't when we first started because the cost of goods, it's really hard to be good. I say over and over again, it's hard to be good. We lowered our prices significantly soon after launching. And I'm talking about 30 % and took a huge risk.

20:27But we were sitting on a panel and this was out in California. And there was one young girl who spoke up and she's like, you know, you're speaking about how I shouldn't do this. I should do this. I'm making bad choices here. I need to make good choices here, but how can I do it if I can't afford you? I'm just going to end up going back to the drugstore. And that really resonated. So, and guess what? I mean, it's, and it's the truth. You know, we have, there's more than 50 % of Gen Z consumers that look at ingredients. This is the path forward now and I am so so happy to see that and I can't wait to see you know my son who's alpha I can't wait to see how he evolved and what his generation evolves into and I really feel they're going to be a powerhouse in making this world better you know I don't want to talk in circles but I get very passionate about it and so and no it's it's valid I mean I think that you know Gen Z like from what I've seen that they're they're like the generation that's really pulling this mask off you know what I mean and saying like listen we need to know we need to know everything we want to know ingredients we want to know how to use this can we afford it if we can't afford it why can't we afford it you know they want to know everything and I love that about them like I really applaud them for that you know so so do I I surround myself with like most of my associates are Gen Z and I love hearing I ask them everything like what is going on how does this make you feel?

22:03Like, tell me, you know, their passion for ingredients and their passion for really just education. It drives them. And it's so wonderful, so exciting, and so refreshing to see. You know, I'm a woman in my 50s. So I just want to, I want to be relevant. I want to keep going. I have an eight-year-old. I'm trying to bust a move here in every single way I can. yeah yeah and to do good in the process yeah I can imagine I mean it's just I think it's just nice to see that the consumers I mean I think consumer values have really shifted even from when I was younger honestly surely like I remember my biggest thing was finding my shade you know back then I remember that was a struggle and that's another thing I really love about the brand is that you guys are I mean you really do hit hard there and I've always I've found great products you know and through well people i think they work beautifully for my skin tone that that matters to me but that was my concern is my point when i was young you know so i wasn't thinking about clean beauty and i wasn't thinking about you know reading labels and so to see them now make like gen z's really push that envelope you know and they've really kind of pushed this narrative forward of no we got to know more i love seeing that and you know yeah i'm excited to see what Gen Alpha brings to the table, for sure.

23:25We're positioning ourselves to meet that demand, for sure. You know, and that's one thing going back to the question, you know, in terms of obstacles. And so, you know, looking at the future, looking at future founders, you know, I do, I want them to know that making, you know, to not compromise, to not sacrifice, and it may slow you down. You know, our cadence of being able, especially early on, our cadence in launching products was very slow, but it was slow for a reason, because we weren't going to put something on the market simply because we felt it was time to. We were putting things on the market when we felt that they met every single, they checked off every box of our standards.

24:12And so that is what, you know, for future founders, for future builders, just never, ever compromise on your vision. Because that's what's going to stick. That's where the legacy begins. And that is where, you know, Well People remains. is consistently, consistently taking our time, thinking about you, thinking about the environment and positioning ourselves to create the best product possible, you know, for your health and for your skin. Absolutely. I would love to actually kind of talk about that a little bit more as a skin aspect, because I feel like now, you know, there's a lot more that we want from our makeup products than just, you know, a really great lipstick or a really great blush.

25:01I think people are now understanding the value of, you know, whatever I'm putting on my skin, it's going to be on my skin for a long time. I want to make sure I'm not doing any harm, you know, if anything, I want to do good. So keeping those skin benefits in mind, I mean, I think the brand really stands out to me because you guys have such powerful ingredients that are great for the skin. You know, So how was that, you know, in terms of really merging these two worlds of makeup and skincare and creating something that's really good for you genuinely, like to just to use on a day to day basis? You know, I like to say that Mother Nature provides, right?

25:37So that was super exciting by nature, pun intended, I guess, creating a product of plant based ingredients. naturally, again, there I am using that word, created a hybrid. Instantly, we created this multifunctional product that not only looks good on your skin, but it's also good for your skin. Because all of a sudden, we're removing silicones, right? Well, people, we simply choose not to use any kind of silicone or petroleum-derived product because it's not renewable. They stick around forever. They may not necessarily be toxic for your skin, but they're not wonderful for the environment. And what we've replaced ingredients like silicone with, our ingredients like broccoli seed oil, broccoli seed oil is a perfect substitution for silicone.

26:30It glides on the skin the same way. It penetrates the skin. It has a high molecular size, so it penetrates slowly. So it helps you get that feel that we get when we use like a product that has silicone in it. We also use delicious ingredients like snow mushrooms. Snow mushroom is nature's hyaluronic acid. It'll absorb 500 times its weight in water. When we created our biotint, our SPF multifunctional moisturizer, we use non-micronizing. So there are no nanoparticles in well people. and it was actually the broccoli this is how we discovered broccoli seed oil being a great substitute for dimethicone or silicone it was because we were creating this this this spf multifunctional spf tinted moisturizer it was coming on chalky because we chose to use zinc which is a natural sunblock the skin we kept testing it and skin was chalky and chalky and chalky.

27:32Our chemist came to us and he's like, why don't you try this broccoli seed oil? And it worked phenomenally. So nature does provide if you keep pushing and hoping for that solution. And guess what? Broccoli seed oil is really great for you. It's loaded with vitamin K. It has natural skin brightening properties to it. So it's a win-win all around. And when we look at the well-people consumer. Our consumer loves simplicity. And simplicity is driven by multifunctional products. And so we have our latest launch, which is our Supernatural Complexion Stick, which is your foundation and your concealer.

28:20It's super portable. You can use it the way that you want to use it, which could be, you know, all over or just, you know, in just specific spots or just under the eyes to brighten up the eye area. It's your choice. But whenever you're using, for instance, our supernatural complexion, so you could feel good that you're also infusing your skin with the benefits of black cumin seed oil, with aloe. So you're getting all these great benefits. It's like a double whammy with any product that you use from well people. And so it, it's, it also, you know, we're big on helping you make your own choices because you mentioned, you spoke earlier about the overwhelm, the overwhelm in the beauty industry.

29:04Like now, if I walk into a Mac store, I am instantly feeling that overwhelm because there are too many choices. So we purposely keep our brand very well edited so that you don't have to feel the overwhelm you know you feel the overwhelm making a good choice but now you have to choose which color works for you and that's a hard thing to do so we try to be very mindful as we develop in creating shades and tones that are extremely flexible for all skin tones which is wonderful yeah but I love that though about the brand is like that was one thing I wanted to actually just really commend you on was the fact that it is brand that you can utilize the products in so many different ways I mean the for example the blush sticks I use them quite often for obviously like blusher but then also on top of my eyelids or for a little bit of flush on my lips like it's really versatile and I love products like that because I'm in medicine I have no time you know I won't lie I literally no time in the morning to do anything much less my makeup and so if you're on the go or if you're busy which I know so many people these days I mean we're running around you know everywhere so it's really it's convenience but it's also knowing that the product you're using is good because sometimes I think in the yeah it's it's a cluttered space the beauty industry now but I think also in that it leads to confusion a lot you know and you kind of lose sight of like what is actually good for me in all of these products that I have, you know, in the rush of putting on your makeup, sometimes you forget that these are my values.

30:44I do want to use something that's genuinely good for me, my skin. And, you know, that can be lost when you're in a rush. So I like knowing that. It's kind of like a safety net in a lot of ways, you know. So that's very cool. I wanted to ask, though, you know, in terms of, we spoke a little bit about Gen Z earlier, you know, and all the new things that are coming up. But in terms of trends, I know that in the beauty industry, trends are huge. You know, people really gravitate towards, you know, whatever their friend is buying. I mean, what are your, what are things that excite you in that space?

31:18Like that are trending right now or that you've seen, you know, really coming up in the industry? What I'm getting really excited about is, you know, they call it, I just love that seeing skin, right skin the look of skin is becoming very prevalent so we can we can speak to that you know in several different ways there's cloud-like skin there's the french girl look but what's really cool about these trends that are coming up i find or the clean girl look is one of them as well it's that less is more but you know it's it's less is more so that i get really excited about but I'm also excited about, let's just be honest here, like the fact that it's makeup, right?

32:04And that the consumer is learning to use makeup differently. Gone is the way of just taking on your makeup. And it's fine. If you want to do that, you do you. I have no problem with that. I appreciate all trend in makeup, but currently right now, I get super excited about the fact that we are doing more with less so it's about stains on the lips you know flushes of color on the cheeks focus on the eyelashes but not necessarily on the eyeshadow and if we are we're focusing on on pops of color right like you know this this fall and for the holiday it's all about using metallic eyeshadows strategically on the eye, you know, in a pop, just one single color, not having to be over inundated with needing to create like this masterpiece of color on the eyes.

33:03Instead, what if you coat your eyelid or layer your full eyelid with this, a gorgeous metallic gold or silver or a cranberry for maximum impact? You know, it's also about like what I like to say and choosing your weapon and beauty right now. So if you're focusing on the eyes, those lips are nude and natural. If you're focusing on that lip and doing a high impact red, then your eyes are softened and more natural. And maybe just the focus is on the lashes and the skin, all between that is touchable, natural, you know not overtly glossy not overtly matte so seeing like these nuances of of natural beauty being implemented in trend right now it it gets me excited I think it's fun and it is very achievable which is very much in line with you know our our desire to always be accessible absolutely no I think that I can definitely get behind that as well I think it's really cool to see people gravitating towards it I mean those days of where Instagram makeup was a thing I just I don't know I was wondering to myself for so long like when are we gonna see people reveal their skin again you know rather than tons and tons of makeup yeah like it was kind of like a little overwhelming because you want to look wonderful and you see your favorite an influencer but then you realize it takes 15 steps to get that routine or that look you know and it just becomes this overwhelming like oh like what a feat you know to really accomplish that but then yeah I completely resonate with what you said in terms of like yes teen girl look you know I that's a really up my alley as well so yeah being okay being okay with our imperfections being okay with our freckles, being okay with a blemish that may pop up from time to time, being okay, you know, with having scars, like it is okay.

35:14And that is what I love saying. I love seeing our younger consumer being empowered. And I love seeing it on Instagram. Again, I mentioned I'm older. So, you know, I'm still looking at Facebook from time to time. But seeing that, But seeing or just seeing the younger population really showing up for that, showing up towards self-acceptance, showing up in ways that can still be fun. Right. Yeah. Especially when it comes to makeup. Absolutely. Yeah, I completely agree. And, you know, what's really cool is that you're giving options. I mean, that's the number one thing is if you provide options and you provide resources for people to explore these other avenues, you know, like understanding that this doesn't one thing doesn't have to be the trend.

36:04You know, there's other ways and there's other avenues. I mean, people are going to be more inclined to opt in, you know. So I think that what the brand stands for, and this is kind of what I meant earlier when I was saying, I think beauty is very philosophical in a lot of ways, is that it's really by, it's understanding where you fit in and finding your place. And I feel like this whole clean look movement and this trend, it's allowing the younger generation or even any generation to feel like, okay, wait, hold on. I don't need five shades of concealer to get that under eye look. And I don't need whatever I think I need.

36:41It can just be two or three products that are just great products, you know, and they give me what I need to look my best. That's I think that's very powerful, you know, from a like that standpoint of philosophy. I think that really resonates on such a deep level if you think about it. You know, it really empowers you more than anything because you don't hide behind pounds and pounds makeup anymore. You're just accepting who you are and enhancing your features and loving that. And it's beautiful. so yeah yeah sorry I got a little you know excited there I just I really know really in that you know I I feel like women especially like we're always bombarded with these crazy beauty standards and I a part of that is just the excessive makeup you know what I mean like I just believe that so I really I truly believe in what you're doing with well people I think well people is a brand that's it's pushing this forward of you know just listen here's some great products you know and you can play around and have fun but you don't need the 50 products that you're seeing an influencer you don't need that i mean that's the truth you know that really i i value that a lot as a consumer so it's wonderful but i i want to ask you surely i really think that you know in terms of the clean beauty conversation i would love to get your you know your feedback on what do you think we need more of to educate consumers more about clean beauty?