Alec Stewart on returning to Surrey, England's Ashes defeat and why Jude Bellingham could be good news for cricket

0:21Ath:This podcast features Alec Stewart and Ath.

0:31Ath:They told me we were going to do this in your office initially, which I imagine to be utterly immaculate with not a piece of paper out of place. Is that how it is? You know me too well. But if you'd asked to have the interview two weeks ago, it would have been a definite no, because for some reason, while I was not here full-time last year, it turned into a warehouse, effectively. But my OCD or whatever kicked in, and it's now pretty good, but still not immaculate. You are back full-time. What does a day at the Oval look like for Alex Stewart in the position you're in? Because you're not the head coach, obviously, but you are the director of cricket here.

1:11Ath:You have a very hands-on role. What does a day look like for you in a championship cricket? Match day, it's very much. It is the head coach, Gareth Batch, who's done a brilliant job since coming in. He runs it, and that's how it needs to be. so leading into it we'll have spoken about the squad and then the squad is the easy bit and then when it comes to the final 11 it will be the captain and coach that discuss if there is any slight disagreement not that there really is then I will come back in but we'll have spoken beforehand what the intended 11 may be but that's it Gareth will always give the speech unless the captain does or another player and then I'm in the background believe it or not supporting and then we've got Nick Potters who's come in as fielding and keeping consultant so again when he is here it's important that he keeps that role he's not doesn't do every day he'll do the day before the first four day game and a day of and then I'll come out pre-match and help Ben Folks or whoever the keeper may be otherwise I sit very much in my office I'm not in the round address room being a pain in the bum others may disagree but otherwise I'll be up in my office and that's where you sort of have to do as I call it laptop work preparation, looking ahead, etc.

2:25Ath:I know you were at Radlett the other day where your second XI were playing Middlesex, which is my local club. So how do you balance your time between first XI, second XI, who are obviously pushing to get into that first XI, but also then the level below that, the pipeline that's coming through? So I will try and see one, so definitely home games or ones that are easily accessible, at least one day of a three or four day second team game. so that I've got eyes on the players. It's always good for the second-having coaches to report back to myself or Gareth Batty. But if I've seen them myself, then you have first-hand knowledge.

3:02And also it's good that the players understand that whether it's myself, first team, are taking note of performances, attitudes, approach from the second team. And then Academy Pathway is Chris Taylor, former Gloucester player. He's been Academy Pathway director for, what is it now, four years, I think. So we will speak whether it's every day, but certainly regularly. Again, what players are coming through, who has performed well. And I've always worked on a three-year cycle. So it's very much who is coming through, who may be dropping off. And can we promote from within? Because that's always the first place we look.

3:40And if not, we will go outside.

3:42Ath:I spoke to your old fella the other day, Mickey, who was in Goodnick, I thought. And is England's oldest living cricketer now. It's a remarkable link that your family have with this club, almost 80 years now. You came back full-time last year because your wife, Lynn, died after a very long illness. Was that a straightforward decision to come back full-time or was there any part of you that thought at a significant kind of change moment in your life that it was time to maybe do something else? Yeah, I thought long and hard, if Lynn was still here, I wouldn't have come back because it was very much the reason why I stepped down was I owed her time.

4:18as you'll know because of cricket it takes takes your way from home and it almost overtakes your life for a lot of the part of your family time so I'd said right I'm going to spend time and Lynn's passing happened sooner sooner than we anticipated and then once you you have to come to terms with it it was right what am I going to do what do I want to do and also do they want me back here because you never just want to come back just because you've been associated with the club I'd stayed in the background for a little bit and then they said would you like to come back and I said just give me time so I'm making sure it is the right decision for me but also the right decision for the club so I've come back as of 1st of Jan and getting back into how it was while also conscious that over a 12 month period things can change people can take on a few more responsibilities but I love the place and while I still think I can have a positive impact or input, then I'll be here and once either my enjoyment's gone or I'll get a tap on the shoulder, then I'll always be a Surrey fan.

5:24Ath:The club got pipped to the Championship last year. Other than you not being here full-time, what was the difference? Obviously, you'd had a long run of success in Championship cricket prior to that and it's been a tremendously successful period for the last decade or so. So what was the thing that was just missing last year for you? Well, first of all, let's congratulate Nottinghamshire for winning it. So that's the first thing. And then a lot of people say the hardest one to win is the first one, which it was, but then a second one, a third one, and then going for a fourth one, subconsciously, the lads going back to the well to use a term.

6:05Was there something fractionally missing? where we're just fractionally down on what levels of performance we'd put in and worked so hard for the three previous years. We'll never really know, but that's where we're looking at. And then key moments also, you know, that Notts game, which was covered on Sky, we had moments to win that. You know, Notts got off to a good start, we came back in it. And there were a couple of moments where if we'd grabbed them, I think we'd have won that game and then it might be different. It might have been four on the trot, but it didn't happen. Notts won it and we'll look back and say why.

6:37but it is, it was those key moments the tough periods when previously we've just nailed them was it because if we're asking yet again the same group each time we've won it I've added to the squad was it just asking them too much, we don't know but let's see how this season plays out

6:56Ath:You didn't win a home game after beating Yorkshire actually in May, I think there were four draws and then that defeat to Notts that you mentioned And we saw a little bit of that the first day of this championship game where Essex got off to a terrific start. You've found it quite hard to get 20 wickets here, haven't you? Yeah, that's been probably the game against Leicester, first game here and then this one. The weather probably hasn't been helpful. It's a beautiful blue sky, but also the amount of moisture that we haven't had, rain, etc. So is the pitch, is the square just that little bit drier?

7:30that has therefore meant the pitches aren't quite what they were, is there not quite as much moisture in the grass, in the leaf, as a groundsman may say. And therefore, has that just meant there hasn't been quite as much sideways movement as well as pace and bounce. We always want pace and bounce, but with that generally comes some sideways movement, not just swing, but a little bit of swing, especially the first two sessions of day one. And also, looking slightly deeper, now there are and I think other grounds have had the same now there are two full-time professional setups here the men and the women and they've been playing some games if you're going to sympathize with anyone it's the ground staff who have to work I won't say twice as hard but a lot harder they therefore have less time preparing pitches because there are other games or other training sessions being put on here so it's great that the women's game is flourishing and that that is the right thing and it is going in the right direction.

8:27The knock-on effect is the men suffering or the pitchers suffering because of the lack of attention perhaps a ground staff can give.

8:37Ath:How much of your time is spent trying to identify overseas players? It's peculiarly difficult now compared to when we played where you'd have your one overseas player, whether it's Waka, Unis or whoever, he's at the club for all season and many years. and now players come and go for obvious reasons. Is there still value to be had in overseas players in the Championship or has it got to the point where that's a debate to be had and obviously it's easier to get quality overseas players in the short-form competitions, the Blast and the 100? The job has become harder for everything you've said there, more franchise cricket, not just the IPL.

9:19Now there's now the MLC, then you'll have the CPL Caribbean Premier League and then there are other European ones creeping in as well. So to get the top, top quality is difficult. Also because they're earning such good money either through international cricket or perhaps the IPL. So the attraction of yesteryear coming to play county cricket isn't quite the same. But we still pride ourselves on if we're going to sign someone, it has to enhance the squad and they've got to be a good person. So some like a Sean Abbott think this is fourth stint with us. It's like he's almost coming back home. So to answer the other part of your question, I would still keep overseas players in the county championship, but you don't have to sign them.

10:01That is the thing. People say, I'll just stop them. They still have that availability. And then it's up to each county whether they believe whoever is available will enhance their team, enhance their squad. And if they're available for eight games, ten games or only two games, That's down to each individual county.

10:19Ath:Surrey, I looked at the numbers. I think you had close to 80 ,000 through the gate for Championship cricket for your home games last year, way in advance of any other county. What is Surrey doing in the Championship to get the crowds in that other counties are not doing? First of all, we've had success. Straight away, people want to be attracted to or attached to success. So what we've done in the Championship, winning it, has created a little bit of a buzz, if you wish to use that word. Also, we are lucky. We're on the doorstep of the city. So that's jump on the tube, come down here and watch some cricket.

10:55But also, we actually try and promote the game. You know, you've seen work from the Oval as against work from home. The marathon is this weekend. Anyone, I think, who turns up with their marathon medal can bring themselves and a guest in for free. So we're just trying to be, think outside the box, really, to make it a place to come. Also, the average age is dropping, certainly on weekends. A lot of people say, oh, can he create? It's just watched by retired people, which, yeah, is a fact. But we all say that our audience is getting younger. And it may be, is it the style of cricket?

11:27Ath:Is it a full club effort? I mean, you know, often I see at clubs that there's the cricket on one side, the commercial on the other. It sounds to me like you've got quite an integrated effort here to push championships. There's always going to be the cricket clubs, Surry County Creek Club, and then there's a keyer over, which is a conference and events business, which brings in millions. So that is a success on its own. But I think they can go hand in hand as well. If the team is successful or teams are successful on the field, that must help the commercial side and vice versa. If it's successful here, our budgets go up, et cetera.

12:02But he's still got to spend the money wisely. But at the moment, we're in a good place. This year will be tougher just because when the test matches and when I think the one day international is the last day of September, 28th of September. But there are other things as well that we do to try and promote the game. And we are big Red Bull fans here, not just myself, I know you are, but as a club we've gone...

12:24Ath:Is that true of your players still? Because obviously the game has changed. You mentioned all the short-form competitions around franchise competitions. By and large, do your players still value winning the championship above other competitions? Look, we've only won the T20 once back in 2003, the very first one. That's a bugbear of all of us that we haven't won it. We've got the finals but not won it. But if you're offered, certainly from our point of view, if you're offered a championship trophy or another trophy, we'll take the championship first up because that is a true test. You know, T20 is vitally important, don't get me wrong, but as a club and as individuals and as a group, yeah, the championship is the benchmark and therefore we want our players to be multi-format players.

13:06At times they will, you know. As their career goes on, they go, no, I'll be a specialist, white ball or whatever. That's fine. They're there to earn money. But we will always promote red ball cricket, certainly while I'm here.

13:25Hi there, it's Darmus Sheff from the Sunday Supplement podcast. Every week I'll be joined by some of the UK's top sports journalists to go beyond the headlines and unpick the big stories. Catch us every Sunday live on Sky Sports News between 9 and 11am with the podcast dropping as soon as we come off air. So if you don't already, give Sunday Supplement a follow wherever you get your podcasts and I'll see you on Sunday mornings.

13:54Ath:Turn to England. I know you're very proud Englishman. How much of the Ashes did you watch? What do you make of it? Frustrating Opportunity Thrown away or lost Because Australia weren't a great side this time Playing in Australia as we know We didn't win over there It is tough because you're not just playing the team You're playing the country And again it's easy outside looking in I was there in Perth for the whole test match Of two days You have to get off to a good start in Australia And Losing that test match Made it almost impossible would have come back, I would say. We should have won that or could have won that.

14:34People talk about preparation, that's another discussion. But the fact that we were effectively 100 for one, I think, at lunch on day two and then lost it, that almost then set the tone for the rest of the tour.

14:49Ath:I mean, I was quite optimistic about England's chances before going out. So you said frustrated. I mean, there is an element of England fans who I think feel that the England team had it coming in some ways. Do you buy that? When I say yes or no, as I say, when you're outside, we're all experts, aren't we? Until you're the actual decision makers, with hindsight and everything else, we get it right. All I ever say is, when you've done something good or bad, reflect and would you do it differently? and the preparation or lack of stood out like a sore thumb to everyone, not just to use Stokes' term of has-beens or whatever.

15:31Common sense said you are going to a country where a lot of the players have not played before. You're playing at Lilac Hill where I had seven years. It's nothing like playing at, well, it's the Optus Stadium or the Wack, which is similar pitches. So that was an obvious error and I'd call it an error because they will, when they next go back, they'll have a different lead into the Ashes. So things like that, New Zealand White Ball Series, yes, have been booked in, but what's more important? If I said, well, the people who are watching or listening to this, what was that White Ball Series score?

16:04People probably wouldn't remember. What was the Ashes score? People will know. So you just have to balance that up. And also to say, oh, look, the WACA wasn't available. If you want to play at the WACA or train at the WACA, but it's 12 months ago 18 months previous you book it in or you insist that you train there or you're not coming it's pretty simple again when we sat here um so i just i'm always i'm massive on preparation as you know whether it's to go out and play or to try and do whatever role you're in you've got to prepare well so at least if you fail you know you couldn't have done things any better but if you don't prepare well then fail it's your fault you work with richard gould

16:43Ath:here when he was CEO, obviously he was involved in the review post-Ashes, does he pick up the phone and pick your brain about that? No. I saw Gouldy, he was in Perth and he was a great chief executive he's a great person but no, we haven't had conversations about anything to do with him. So he hasn't asked you whether you're available for Rob Keyes, Joe? You're second hand mate No, listen Gouldie was an excellent chief exec and Tom was a good chair here as well Richard Thompson but they're across the river now so no I haven't spoken to either about the Ashes if they ever want my opinion I'll give it to them but everything's been sorted anyway but we're all England fans whether we've played or not we want England to do well and it's just that's why it's frustrating that we threw away an opportunity because of the quality or lack of absolute high class quality that Australia had at the start of that summer.

17:44Ath:Can I talk about the relationship between England and the counties? Because that is an area that you will be involved in because presumably, whether it's a constant communication, but there is communication between England and the counties. I mean, one of the themes to emerge in the last few months is that that relationship had become a little fractured and in need of improvement. A, would you agree with that? And if so, how had it become fractured? And what does the relationship between counties and England look like in an ideal situation? Like you, I'm big mates with Keyes, with Rob Key. And he rings me and has rung me regularly.

18:27So that relationship is a good one. He'll bounce players or thoughts off me and vice versa. So that's fine. But I think the, if you want to call it a breakdown, is the perhaps lack of communication or lack of questions from England to the counties about players, about their own players. Not just their ability, but their characters, characteristics, personality, how they like to be treated, how they like to train, etc. And then also, and again, selection is always an opinion. Some left field random selections that have come from nowhere and then also the perceived comments or whether they were factual or not of county cricket is so far removed from international cricket we don't really look at what goes on there it's what we see the visuals of what are the attributes of someone who's six foot six or someone who can hit the ball this far or whatever so that's where you should never devalue county cricket because this is a breeding ground for test cricket So have you sensed with your players a feeling that

19:30Ath:it doesn't really matter how many runs, how many wickets we get, that it's not going to have any impact upon our chances of selection. No, I think it was more, again, the interpretation of the journalist's term of basball. So you saw people, use Dom Sibley for an example, one of the better opening batters in county cricket, and he's been prolific, last year had an excellent, but it was perceived his style would not suit the Stokes-McCullum way of playing, which is fine because they're the ones who are being judged. So I don't have a problem with that. But people shouldn't start going outside of what they can do to try and get recognised.

20:12You always expand your game, but don't go from 0 to 100 straight away. Go through the gears. So yes, we've always spoken about being positive, but I've always said you're positive in defence and attack, not just trying to hit fours and sixes, read situations of games and that type of thing. And that's where, again, as an oldie, when it's that's how I play, or just hit it further next time when you're caught in an 80-metre boundary, well, you don't hit the ball more than 80 metres too regularly. So have the percentages in your favour in everything you do. And then if that is recognised, I think it joins everyone up a little bit more.

20:50Instead of, I've seen someone bowl a few balls on YouTube, I like the look of him or whatever just show the respect to the county game that it deserves and warrants

20:59Ath:I mean there's always been a little bit of friction between counties and England I can remember going way back actually to when your dad was in charge and I'm fairly certain that the England bowling coach I can't remember who it was it might have been Jeff Arnold or somebody who was sent to Derby to work with Devon Malcolm and Derby had their noses put out of joint so it's not a new thing there's always been that element But if I took a player here, for example, who might encapsulate how that friction manifests itself, take Jamie Smith, for example. And I can see this from both sides of the fence.

21:36Ath:It seems to me that at the moment he's batting three for Surrey and not keeping. He likely bats seven for England and keep. How does that conversation happen then between Surrey and England? Do they ring up and say, we'd quite like Jamie Smith to keep before Test cricket starts this summer? We haven't had a conversation. That's the thing. And you have to remember that Jamie Smith was picked for England when he wasn't keeping for Surrey. So nothing has changed. He was banning four for us. So they have chosen to pick him as the keeper and then move him to seven. But if they rang you and said we'd quite like him to keep, are you just within your rights to say, well, we think Ben Foulkes is a better keeper and he's going to keep?

22:14We'll do what is right. We want England to be the success. We want all our players to play for England. again, that's always been the case. But we've got to do what is right for us. And that's what we do. And we also, by the way, believe it's right with Jamie Smith to be batting at three. And he's banged out, was he banged out? Yeah, averaging almost 100, I think. Yeah, in the first two and a half games. So we believe that he is a high-quality batsman or batter. And he keeps wicket because he keeps wicket for England. But we're not going to leave out Ben Foulkes or take the gloves off Ben Foulkes when, I've always said he's the best in the world, but he's one of the best keepers of the bout.

22:50He bats at 6 '6", and he is going to be the constant. He is with us, because at the minute, England aren't going to re-pick him. So he is the constant. So, yes, we will help England, but it can't be to the detriment of what we want as counties. And that's always been the case. There'll be people, again, listening, watching, going, England must come first. But we also have a job to do. That is the thing. So we are doing what we believe is right for Surrey, but we also think we're helping England by Jamie Smith coming back, batting at the correct Jamie Smith tempo spending a long time in the middle playing against a new ball on pitches that may do a little bit, so that wherever England then play in, he is in good form the keeping side will work for hours, if he wants to work for hours here, pre-match training days, he can do that but actually keeping in our team right now, that's been folks

23:42Ath:and the health of English cricket more generally? I mean, we talked about, you know, the England players that you produce here, the strong pipeline of talent, the almost 80 ,000 people that came through the gates here for championship cricket last year. But that's not necessarily the nationwide situation. I was looking at the numbers. I think Northampton last year had maybe 5 ,000 come through the gate for their home championship games. So you may have a, you know, a different view of things from here. but are you broadly optimistic about the state of cricket across the land? Yes, I am. But one, I'm in the game, you're in the game, so we're here to promote it, but be honest as well.