Ashes preview with Sir Andrew Strauss | Is England's preparation enough? How will Bazball do Down Under?!

0:00Oh, well done, that is from Crawley.

0:02Nas:Chris Wokes nails it for four. The Ashes alive and Test cricket alive.

0:08Ath:Ice in his veins. Pat Cummins has led his team to a famous victory. Yeah, go! Down, he gets his goal. It's a landing. England's captain, Ben Stokes. Well, he is there.

0:20Nas:England have hope. Put the beer away. Put the champagne on ice. 24 years of pain in Australia. Finally, they're beaten at home by England.

0:31Ath:Well, the Sky Cricket Podcast is getting Ashes fever now. I'm flying today. Nass, you're coming down in a week or two. And the Ashes is just, what, 10 days away now. Of course, me and Nass have no idea about how to win an Ashes series down under. So we've asked somebody on who does. Andrew Strauss. Very nice to see you. How are you, Straussie? How are you, Nass? Good morning, gents.

0:57Nas:I'm good. Nice bookcase, Strauss. Thank you very much. Yes. Yeah, I'll try and look as studious as possible, but often it's not the case. Especially not at 8am in the morning, gents, which is when we're recording this. So, not fully awake yet.

1:14Ath:It is the battle of the bookcases. I'm sure you've actually read one or two of those as well. Right. I mean, there's quite a bit to go before the first game in 10 days time. But things are gradually taking shape now. England have landed in Perth after an unsuccessful, really, ODI series in New Zealand. But, I mean, what about this preparation? One game against the Lions at Lilac Hill, a three-day game, whereas Australia, 14 of them are playing in the current round of Shield games and have played a lot of Shield cricket. What do we think about England's prep, Straussie? well look i i know that ben stokes and brendan mccullum have their own way of doing things and it's been very successful for them on other tours so in some ways they are thinking about what is our best way of winning and thinking about you know not i suppose trying to ensure that our players their players aren't worn out by the time the fourth and fifth test matches come but from the outside it looks like a high-risk strategy there's so many past tours have gone pear-shaped right from ball one in the first test match and if you go into that undercooked and probably as much as any not used to the intensity of what an Ashes series brings I think you can come unstuck very very quickly so I think both Stokes and McCollum will know that if things don't go well this tour this will be the number one criticism that comes their way which is they were undercooked they didn't take it seriously enough uh they you know they're a bit a haphazard in their approach, et cetera, et cetera.

2:55But ultimately, you know, the proof that pringes in the eating, if they go out and play well in that first test match, then all will be forgiven.

3:04Ath:Nass, I mean, Strauss, you mentioned the word intensity there. I think all of us who've played in Ashes cricket generally, but particularly, I think, in Australia, would remember that just step up a level, not just in terms of the quality of the cricket, but the intensity of the cricket. That's the thing that I'm a bit concerned about, that no matter how seriously you take a warm-up game amongst yourselves, and they're playing the Lions, obviously, at Lilac Hill, no matter how seriously you take that, it is going to be impossible, isn't it, to replicate that first moment, that first hour, first day of an Ashes series, especially since so few of England's cricketers of this current squad have actually played Ashes cricket in Australia.

3:51Nas:yeah absolutely i don't think you can replicate that apart from doing what andrew strauss's side did in 2010 11 when they went on to win it is to play a load of warm-up games against state opposition so and also conditions i mean we used to start famously at the wacker every time in the wacker nets uh and get used to the bounce and the conditions in australia didn't do us much good to be honest and that is that is strauss's point really only you only win if you win if they go on to win the series or have a good series, it'll be a stroke of genius. One thing I'll say, or two things I'll say about this regime is they do stick to their guns.

4:28Nas:They've gone all the way to this point and they're not for changing. They're not for changing in the balance of their side, the way they're going to bat. They're going to go pace heavy. They're going to play with a tall spinner in show Bashir. They're not for changing and they're not for changing preparation either. This is how they go about going into tours. They believe that this is the way to go. And to be fair to this present regime, what they have done historically is start well in series and start tours well and then fade away at the end. But I completely agree with you. One warm up game, Lila Kill against the Lions, is absolutely not what it's going to be like in that first test match at the Optus Stadium in a couple of weeks time.

5:13Nas:So, you know, it is not ideal. I didn't understand the 50-over series in New Zealand at all. You may be able to explain why they were playing that. The T20, I understand, because there's a T20 World Cup around the corner. But the 50-over series, I'm all for just playing the format that there's a World Cup in and test match cricket. But maybe they had to fill some kind of obligation. I personally would have just been that 50-over series if you could have done.

5:41Ath:But I mean they'll be able to draw a line under that pretty quickly Won't they? I mean the fact that they lost an ODI series to New Zealand comfortably That in itself is not going to have much of an impact on the action The argument is that they could have been playing more significant cricket During that time

6:01Nas:Yeah that will have no bearing Apart from you do want your batters to go there In a little bit of nick and confidence But what happened in New Zealand will have no bearing. You just need to start well. You look at past history of ashes down under, and there's captains that have done the wrong thing at the toss, bowlers that have bowled it to second slip, batters that have gone too far across their stumps and lost their leg stump, fielders that have dropped the ball in the deep. So we have historically not started well in Australia. So it would just be nice for England fans to start well. So, you know, Perth, you know, it is going to be absolutely vital, that first Test match.

6:44Ath:It made me laugh looking at some of the headlines when Ben Stokes landed in Perth. I don't know whether you've seen them, Strauss, the back page of the Western Australian Baz Ball, which is B-A-W-L. I mean, all the classic attack lines, you know. New Zealand-born Ben Stokes for a start, the article started, and then all the usual stuff.

7:08Nas:Average Joe. They got Average Joe out there.

7:11Ath:Average Joe, yeah, whinging, whining. I mean, can you remember just going back to the tour that you captained in 2010-11? There is a particular focus, well, on all the team, but a particular focus on the captain, to try and put pressure on the captain straight away. Yeah, I mean, certainly my memories of 2006 was as soon as we landed there, there was sort of retribution was on the cars, wasn't there? it was about Australia sort of regaining its sort of cricketing superiority, I suppose. And, you know, there were big billboards up like Tonka Pom. And one of the sponsors had Tonka Pom. It was just Matthew Hayden everywhere just getting ready to smash us around the park.

7:53And I think Freddie got a lot of stick right off the bat. You know, interestingly, in 2010-11, I remember us arriving in the airport in Perth. And it just so happened that the Australian team were passing through. I think they were playing a one-day series. And I remember Ricky Ponting coming straight up to me and shaking my hand going, welcome here, mate. Nice to have you there. I was gobsmacked, quite frankly. And I think it was maybe just a time, a very short time in Australian cricketing history where they wanted to be nice. And they obviously learned the lesson very quickly that that wasn't the way to go in 2010-11.

8:31But, you know, there's a lot to say. And maybe that is one of the advantages of them not playing alone at state cricket before the first test. I don't think there's a good reason, but it is that you don't maybe engage in the phony war in quite the same way. People aren't reading into every innings that someone plays and a bowler having a bad spell, etc., etc. So the England team have sort of created a way of them arriving at that first test relatively intact. and you know nas from previous tours that things can go off the rails well before the start of the first test and that certainly was the case for us in in 2006 so that is a slight advantage to their approach but look it's a it's high risk the conditions are so different there the necessity to start well is so crucial like you are asking a lot from a lot of players that aren't that

9:25Nas:experience in Australian conditions where is this side Andrew compared to Wiccan you remember how you were going into that first test match not just in Australia but in general in confidence and winning where is this present side in comparison to where your side was back then um well I don't think they've quite got the the number of sort of battle hardened uh players they've got some genuine match winners and some of the greatest players england have ever produced there's no doubt about that but i think there's there's a lot of vulnerability if you look at the you know the likes of crawley and pope and and some of the the bowling attack you know those are not experienced campaigners in australian conditions and one thing we know about australia is if there are any vulnerabilities they're likely to be exposed at some point so it's relying a lot on our match winners and by the way you know with Root and Brook and Stokes in particular I mean those are three phenomenal players but they really need to have the the series of their lives I think if we

10:29Ath:can have a chance in this we'll come back to 06 07 10 11 in a bit more detail shortly let's just focus in on a couple of issues for England 10 days before the first test as well but there's no cricket really to play other than that warm-up cricket so is it going to be Pope or Bethel or Who would you pick at number three, Andrew Pope or Bethel? I think you've got to go with Pope personally. I mean, again, it's just such a massive ask for Bethel to be coming into bat in foreign conditions. You know, he's a lovely looking player. There's no doubt about it. But he just doesn't have that record. And I know that he will be walking out to bat in the middle of this cauldron of what an Ashes series is and will be deep down not fully confident in his ability to do it.

11:16I just think without having the record, without playing there before, either a first-class or a test record, I think that's a huge ask for him. I think Pope has shown vulnerabilities, especially the last tour in Australia. But I think you've got to give him the first shot at it. And if he doesn't perform in the first couple of tests, maybe you can bring Bethel in. But that's the old schooling and approach. And Stokes and McCollum like to take risks. and if they think Bethel's the better option, if they think he's a more exciting option, then again, they might push that gamble button again. I certainly wouldn't.

11:56Ath:I mean, I suppose Bethel had an opportunity. I know we said, Nass, that the 50-over stuff in New Zealand, not really much relevance, but it did have relevance for Bethel, didn't it? It felt like an opportunity. If he'd rattled off a two or three hundreds in those, a couple of hundreds in those games, then there was an opportunity there for him that he didn't quite take.

12:17Nas:No, he didn't take it. Yeah, I mean, he could have made a claim there by just smashing it everywhere and looking in good form and Nick. And he's got that chance in the days ahead. You can go on gut field just by watching how people go about their business. He always goes about his business very well, Jacob Bethel. How is he hitting them in the nets? How is he going in that warm-up games? If he suddenly starts striking them crisply and you have a gut feel that he's in Nick and Pope isn't, then you could make that change. I personally would go, Pope. I would start with Pope and say, here you go.

12:52Nas:We backed you for a very long time. We did make you vice captain. You're not anymore. We have backed you. Now go and deliver. I would go that way. But as Strauss, he says, you could easily see them. If suddenly Bethel starts smashing them in that warm up game and looks in great Nick, They are ruthless, this team. They have a gut feel and they go with it. And the more interesting one for me is the bowling attack. I know you did. We did that thing on the Oval Balcony at the end of the summer and you were very keen on going out hard in Perth with pace. Can you go with an attack that has Archer, Wood and Stokes, three fast bowlers who have history of injury, two coming back from serious injury?

13:35Nas:Could you go with that attack, three of them?

13:39Ath:Well, I mean, Perth and Brisbane, two first tests, aren't they? Perth, we expect to be the fastest pitch, even though it's Optus and not the Wacker, but they still say it's about as quick as any pitch will be. And then Brisbane, day-nighter. Yeah, I mean, I would if they're fit. And I know the risk. They faced that last time, didn't they, with Broad and Anderson coming off the back of fitness issues and then didn't play them. and then they went one down and then chasing their tail all the way. But this is how they've kind of decided to prep. And therefore, you know, they had the opportunity to do it differently and get some miles and energy into the legs of people like Archer and Wood who've not played test cricket for a while.

14:22Ath:They've opted not to do that. But it doesn't mean that come the first test, if they're fit, that they shouldn't play. I think you have to go all at them if you can in that first game. And I guess then the question mark is whether you play a spinner, whether they play Bashir. I mean, you know, they've said all along here is their first choice. Spinner, obviously. But, I mean, there may be an instance where they don't play him in the first game or indeed the first two games.

14:50Nas:And the groundsman says it's going to be a very similar pitch to what we had last year. Sorry, we're in England. When we land in Australia, the groundsman will become a curator at the moment in Chelmsford. He's a groundsman.

15:04Ath:You can rest assured he'll be doing a press conference. They always like to shove the curator in front of the press, don't they?

15:11Nas:Well, 17 wickets fell against India on day one, and then it got flatter towards the end. But he says he's going to have a similar pitch. And in general, I've been looking at the stats. In the last four years, it has not just been recent in the last year or two. last four years it has nibbled around and games haven't gone the distance so it looks like it's going to be a different type of ashes battle that the three of us had which were long days in the field and trying to work out what to do with the cookabra ball it may be that skill is required with bats and ball i think one of the things that really stands out for me you look at that australian bowling lineup i mean it's not raw pace you know hazelwood in particular look at scott bowlin his record in australia is ridiculous i mean you have his 12 with the ball or something but what they do all do is they hit the deck hard and they extract some movement out of the pitch and of course with the carry that you get in australia that you bring in the slips into play so much and so i i have a slight concern about this whole thing of just batter them with pace you know i think it's got to be very good pace and very accurate pace and as we know that's not an easy combination to to come up against so i i just you know sometimes i i look back at 2010 11 we had anderson broad we had bresnan we had tremlett you know finn we dropped because he wasn't actually sort of containing the australians enough what you need to be able to do is obviously create pressure on those australian batsmen either by getting big runs or by taking early wickets and making them feel like they're sort of behind the game.

16:51And so that doesn't necessarily mean it's just about all out pace. I think that's a sort of misnomer.

16:59Ath:Quite a lot of chat about the age profile of this Australian squad. They've only got one member of it, Cameron Green, who's under 30. I mean, it is an aging squad by historical standards. I mean, the fascination is that at some point, you know, if players carried on playing, that age would start to tell. But that may not be yet. They may be good for another series, another two series, another three series. But it's still a startling age profile, isn't it, Strauss? If you were, you know, national selector or chairman of selectors in Australia to pick this team, You'd be looking at it and thinking, you know, we're going to have to regenerate at some point.

17:44Ath:And I noticed that George Bailey has come under a bit of scrutiny or criticism from some of the locals. Steve Ward, Darren Lehman, Greg Chappell have all, you know, chimed in a little bit in recent times. Yeah. And look, I mean, this is the end of the cycle. So you sort of play your best team up to the end of the cycle and then you tend to refresh after that, don't you? I mean, that bowling lineup in particular is very, very strong. And the question with those type of bowlers, they're not going to suddenly lose form, those bowlers. You know, think about how Anderson and Broad were able to keep their levels high right the way through to the day they retired, but they might get injured.

18:25So that is the risk. And obviously, we've already seen that with Cummins. I think the batting, yes, it's relatively old, but it's experienced. um you look at their records in australia and they're phenomenal you know even kawaj i think averages 48 we know how good smith is travis head averages over 50 lavashane i think averages over 50 in australia as well so you know truthfully i don't see a massive case for dropping any of those guys um especially when the next generation haven't really come through yet um so you know i i think I think we're too barking up the wrong tree a little bit if we go down that route the sort of dad's army they're going to be you know old and flaky I think we've got to expect them to play some high quality cricket and what we can do I think is land some blows and and play in a way that exposes and puts pressure on puts them under pressure and then obviously we'll see how they

19:24Nas:react to that where are you both two England openers excellent England openers where are you on the opening position, is it still a specialist position? Because obviously it is linked maybe to Cameron Green being able to bowl and he is back bowling this week. I saw some footage overnight of him bowling eight, nine overs in the state game. But is it a specialist position? Does Labashain move up to open? Are you going to play Wetherill? Where do you two stand on that? In Test match cricket in general, is it a specialist position still?

19:57Ath:Yeah, it is. I think there are not that many really top-class teams that can't boast a good, strong and settled opening partnership. I think it's an essential part of a good team. I mean, that's one of two areas that England will look at, isn't it? And think, well, there's an opportunity there. Obviously, one is the absence of Pat Cummins, outstanding all-round cricketer, great bowler, has been a very successful captain. So that's one area. and then the other area as you say is the opening partnership Kawaja who's 38 I think turns 39 in the middle of the third test I think and has looked a bit short of his best against bowling of a little you know high pace in the last couple of years and then we don't know who's alongside him as you say it depends a little bit on Cameron Green and they might shove Labashane up to open I think their preferred option would be Wetherold to open on debut, Labashain 3 and Green to bowl at 6.

21:00Ath:But whether that will be the case remains to be seen. But I think that is an area where England will think, well, we can perhaps, you know, land a couple of early blows and create some doubt there for sure. I think one of the great experiences in my life was watching Steve Smith go up to opening and his average dropped from 60 down to about 45. So after this, we can sort of add 15 onto our averages if we bump in the Lord Nasser unfortunately you can't I guess we nudged in 40 then

21:30Nas:Following Ath it felt like I was opening to be honest

21:38Ath:More generally looking beyond the specifics now of where we are and before we just wander back to down memory lane a little bit England have got an appalling record in Australia haven't won a test match since your tour in 2010-11, Strauss. We've won nine tests since 1980 down under. The last 45 years, just nine test matches, which is incredible when you think about it. So, you know, beyond the specifics, just the broadest question, really, why do England struggle down under? Why have England struggled down under in general terms? Well, I mean, firstly, much of that time we've been playing against probably the best team in the world or certainly the top two or three teams in the world in their home conditions so you know that that's a very tough task in the first place um so there's been a mismatch between the team if you look at the two teams on paper generally you'd say the australian team were much stronger and that's just played out on the pitch i think what's been interesting about a lot of these tours is it hasn't all been one-sided even though we haven't won many test matches there've been moments in test matches or days or spells where England have been very much on top, but we haven't had, I suppose, the ruthlessness to keep ahead over long periods of time.