Ben Stokes exclusive: Captain denies rifts & takes responsibility after 'chaotic' fortnight

0:01Yeah, gone! Gone, he gets his fairytale ending! An epic way to go to a Test Match 100. The London Spirit of First Time win is the most remarkable thing you'll probably ever see in cricket. 604 and final Test Wicket that's due at all. It's India who will win the T20 World Cup. England's captain Ben Stokes, while he is there, England have hope.

0:33Welcome to this Sky Sports Cricket Podcast. My name's Ian Ward. I'll be speaking to former England captain Michael Atherton, who has been speaking to current Test captain Ben Stokes. This is the first time that Ben has been speaking to the press since Lourdes. Here's his conversation with Athers. Ben, thanks for your time. It's been an utterly chaotic couple of weeks. How much of that can be laid at your door? Yeah, you're right. Chaotic is probably a good word to describe it. It's great first and foremost that I'm back here and I'm playing. Tough two weeks for a number of people, not only myself, but I think me and Gus are glad the process is done.

1:18We've gone through it all and we're back here in our roles on this team. and I'm back as captain and Gus is back as one of the senior players and our focus is fully on what we need to do this week. I think it might have been a little bit lost, that's been a pretty good series so far. It's 1-1 in a three-match series and this week's pretty big for the team. Probably more than it normally would be for many different reasons, but we've got a series to go and win. and that was the main thing that me and Gus spoke to each other about, of making sure that everyone knew that our focus is on the game.

1:57But how much responsibility do you take for what's happened in the last two weeks? Yeah, well, I guess the one thing about being, I'll say like a leader, is it's very easy to be able to take the, you know, everything good that comes with that, you know when you get praise for results when you get praise for this and that and the other and it's then taken being able to be man enough to take responsibility for something that has an effect on on the wider group and there's absolutely no doubt that I appreciate that and it was one thing that I had to do when I got back into the changing room in front of everyone yesterday was acknowledge that, eyeing up to that, look everyone in the eye and appreciate that it did have an effect on a team and people that I care for and want to do extremely well.

2:52And that's one of the hard things that I had to cope with over the last two weeks was seeing how something that I was involved in affected a team that I care deeply about. So coming back in and just acting as if everything was normal, nothing happened wouldn't have been right. So I just feel that's a huge part of leadership, which is accepting things for what they are, owning them, and looking at the people who look to you in times to be the leader. You say you acknowledged it, does that stretch or did it stretch to an apology to the team? Look, the circumstances over the last two weeks obviously did have an effect and And obviously going through a process, being at the end of that doesn't take away the effect that that had on the team.

3:48There was a lot of noise around, there was a lot of this, a lot of speculation being said and when you feel that your team is affected by that, then it is hard to take. We had lads making debuts and that probably, well, definitely took away from their moment, which was such a special moment for any cricketer making a test debut. So there's a lot of things that you look at it where you go, well, it definitely had an effect on this, it had an effect on that. So that's where you have to stand up and appreciate that and own that. I'll take you back to the aftermath of the Lord's win that day and that evening.

4:29Given the context of what had happened in the Ashes and in Australia, do you accept you're in the wrong place at the wrong time?

4:41Look, we and Gus have been through a very long process with this. It's been an internal investigation. There's been the regulator investigation. And I guess that's where you just let the whole thing play out. and then now here we are, back doing what we do. And as I've just said there, you do take ownership of things, and I feel like I've done that. And I feel like I've done that to the people who needed to hear it the most, which to me at this point in time was my teammates, because it would be understandable if there was a little bit of

5:26trust loss and it's up to me to get that trust back if there is any that's loss. And again, being open-minded to all of that and the repercussions of how some things can affect other people is something that I've got to take on my shoulders and understand and I feel like I've done that as much as I possibly could so far and now what do I need to do as captain? It's look forward. We've got a massive week coming up here, so I have to get everyone's mind onto this game because at the end of the day it's 1-1, we've got one game left and we need to win the series. I felt like I've done a pretty good job of what I needed to do.

6:06We'll come on to the cricket shortly, hopefully. I just want to ask a couple of questions about curfews, which seem to me at least a ridiculous way to run an elite sporting team. and there seems to be some ambiguity around the curfew, which bleeds into the notion again in the winter that one of the weaknesses of this setup is the lack of attention to detail. Was the curfew properly spelt out, the detail of it? I think in terms of that, if you look at the investigations that happened both internally and with the regulator, here. Nothing was bought against me and Gus in terms of that.

6:55Did you feel in the days afterwards that you got a suitable amount of backing from the people above you in the organization? I think it's always a very tough situation to, I think, really understand from someone's when you're involved in it, it's a lot harder to, I guess, realize what the best thing to do is. And I guess it's always one of those things where when you don't have to make a decision, you feel like you could make the best decision. It's always hard being involved in something like that. And, you know, like, could I say I was a little bit frustrated and disappointed with how the whole thing's played out, yeah, but I'm back here as captain of England.

7:43I'm back here playing this week. I'm back here doing what I want to be doing. So everything's happened, can't change what has happened, but what I can do is affect what we do going forward. And how I conduct myself from here onwards is the only thing that I can control. I can't control or change what happened in the fast. Can I ask about your relationships with two people you've been very close with since 2022, Rob Key and Brendan McCollum. In Rob's first interview after the events of Lourdes, he said he'd have to do what's right by the team and what's right by you. And he said it's more than just about what happened on Sunday night.

8:27What I took that that to me, or inferred, was that after four years, the demands of the captaincy are weighing on you. Would that be a fair interpretation of that comment? Have you been in the aftermath of the Ashes struggling with the expectation, the demands, the pressure of the job? We've all been there. Look, I think it's nice that someone who knows what it is like as England captain asking me that question because if I was to sit here and say I've done this job for four years and I'm you know it's been no stress it's been nothing that's come of it you know you know that I'll be lying it's a it's a job that requires resilience it's a job that requires time it's a job that requires so much effort and you sort of I guess you're never really able to switch off from it you're always on and you know over the last six months I guess I could look back on how sort of have I thrown myself a bit too much into it have I given myself enough slack after Australia and maybe was I a little bit too hard on myself but over the last couple of weeks others I'll give you like be truthful like there's just been an almost a well you know look just could all been taken away from you again and so just relax a bit you know go out there and enjoy it and this is something that you've loved for 15-20 years doing it 15 years for England don't know how long i've been in Freshman Crigger now for a very long time so you know i am able to put things into perspective a little bit because it has been a tough two weeks but somehow trying to find the positive has sort of allowed me to just I guess feel a little bit more free than I probably have done in times before this so yeah it's a little bit strange weird I guess hearing me saying I found the positive out of it but I hope you know what I'm trying to say.

10:33A couple more questions firstly about Brendan McCollum who in the winter there was a perception not that you fell out in a personal way but that your vision for the team just started to diverge a little bit a would that be fair and b how has your relationship changed over the last fortnight yeah me and buzz of like we've always been people who have spoken quite easily to each other about everything and it shouldn't be, I think there's a misconception where me and Baz are not agreeing on things then all of a sudden means that we're not agreed, like aligned on everything and I think it's a healthy place to be able to be where you get a coach and a captain who are able to discuss things, not agreeing everything but then when have conversations like that you actually end up getting to a place where I can understand where Baz is thinking and he can understand where I'm thinking and we do that so much and then you know obviously when things don't go well then it starts coming out in a way that's not true which is no me and Brendan discuss a lot of things we have conversations and we're not afraid to have difficult conversations with each other and never fall out over it because we know that we end up getting to a place which is actually the best thing for the team because we're both giving our opinions on something that we want to end up getting towards and you know if i'm just a pushover and he's a pushover then there's only one person in charge whereas me and baz both respect each other and we know that we're both the ones who have to make decisions for the team so So, yeah, all this stuff just really needs to get put to bed.

12:27And are you clear that the three of you can work together in future as well as you've worked together since the start of 2022? Me, Keezy and Baz over four years have done and achieved some pretty special things. But we're not hiding away from the fact that over the last, let's say, 18 months, things have started to go in a direction that we don't want them to and we know that and we appreciate that and for us like we're just desperately trying to get things back to you know how it was in terms of results wise and um you know the success that we were having in the first couple of years but it's hard to do you know it's hard to to to get this success consistently when playing against other teams who are also trying to be successful against you, it's not an easy thing to just go out there and be win-win-win-win and we know that and we're constantly trying to improve on that, we're constantly trying to bring things into the team to allow them to go to the next level but it's a lot harder to do but we're trying and we will keep trying to do that and again we've done some pretty good things over the last four years but we're not resting on our laurels because yeah we know that we can be doing a lot better than what we currently have been doing.

13:50On a happier note the game that you missed meant you went to Durham and got a few runs there and that Baz said yesterday or Brendan said yesterday that you texted him to say I'm back the implication there though is that something was missing a what was missing in your batting and b in that county game what did you feel was suddenly clicking for you again? Yeah, I likened it to almost, sometimes for me, having so much time on my hands can actually be a little bit dangerous from a training point of view and then thought point of view. I'm not very good with time and I was sort of, I've gone, was I trying to find something that I didn't need to find?

14:33You know, was I making stuff up and things going around? Yeah, because of the time I had and then when this all happened and you know I was like right okay get back into training and play for Durham like I don't know, I just didn't really think about that much to be honest and then I had a really good couple of nets on some pretty rubbish surfaces at Durham because it was at the back end of a game and you know it's hard to get some when there's a lot of traffic on nets but I was just like well just see the ball hit the ball and react to it and then I went out into the middle and just did the exact same and I was like I feel like maybe I've just over complicating it a little bit um where actually going down to to one format um i do have more time on my hands um so getting back out there in the middle with durham the other day was a great feeling but also taking out that feeling that i had in my two nets back at durham with you know one of my best mates buddy ball if he also throws balls to me just being in like a slightly different environment you know a little bit more relaxed maybe just maybe helped me realize that she's been and you've overcomplicated the living daylights out of batting.

15:37That doesn't mean I'm going to go out there this week and be successful and score runs, but it's that feeling of, right, okay, you've just simplified it and maybe you have been overcomplicating it a little bit. But we'll see. It's held some special memories, this ground. I'm thinking of that catch at Gulley off Stuart Broad, the Ashes match of 2015, I suppose where Bas Ball was born against New Zealand four years ago. Can you draw on that inspiration this week? Yeah, definitely. And again, it's this ground for, not just for this group, but I was just thinking for England in general and for me has got some pretty special memories here.

16:13We won the Ashes in 2015. That game was the same game with the catch, what brought he destroy Australia, which is always nice. And this is where we gave supporters a pretty good day out against New Zealand in 2022. too, you know, obviously we had a full crowd here watching and people at home I think would have been pretty entertained. That's almost where everything sort of started for us, like, you know, that was just an awesome day to be a part of. I think we really, really felt that from the fans that it was like, wow, this is going to be pretty good to watch. And again, like just going back to the fans, like the last two weeks as tough as it's been, I can't tell you that

16:58how obvious it's been for me, the support and the love that I've felt from everyone. You know, I go out there and I play cricket. I've played for England for a long time. I've given a lot of my time to English cricket. And I go out there and play for quite a few things. And it became extremely obvious in my mind again that not only do I play for my teammates, myself, my family, but there is a lot of why I go out there. And playing for the fans is definitely one of them. Over the last two weeks, their support has been felt and it sort of made me be very excited that I get to walk out there in front of a crowd who I know supports me.

17:37So that's always a nice thing as an individual. Hope it does well. Thanks for your time. Thanks, others.

18:10Transcription by CastingWords See you soon.

18:18Ben Stokes speaking there to Michael, just about 10 metres away. This lovely lofted view we have over Trent Bridge, which is having its pavilion renovated. The players are actually going to change this end of the ground. Before I get your thoughts on what Ben actually said to you, what have you taken and made of the last couple of weeks? Well, I think there'll be a bit of relief for ECB over the last couple of days. Obviously, it's been an unbelievably chaotic thought night. England making five changes after Lord's disciplinary process, captain missing out, that's unprecedented, getting hammered at the Oval, four more changes here, you know, sense of real chaos.

18:57And the two days in the run up to this test match, I think had the potential to be quite explosive, depending on what the protagonist said. But they basically got through it. you know, Brendan McCollum gave a I thought he gave a good press conference yesterday actually, I thought he spoke well but he spoke pretty emolliently, there was nothing really to take away from that, particularly about the relationship between him and Ben Stokes and Ben, similarly today, it was a it was a kind of sensible performance he knew everybody's going to pick up on every word he says and any slight hint of discord from him, between him and the team and Brendan and Rob or whatever, people would pick up on and there wasn't that.

19:43So they've kind of got through these two days and they're hoping, obviously, that the cricket goes well over the next five days. We shall see. Reading between the lines, listen to what he said to you and what he said in the press conference. I haven't seen a definitive sorry from Ben. I get the impression he's probably said that in-house to someone like Joe Root, who he mentioned certainly in the written press. Did you expect him to say sorry? Yeah, because really all the chaos that we've talked about wouldn't have happened had there not been a disciplinary process, had him and Gus Atkinson not found themselves subject of a disciplinary process.

20:19I think from what he said to me and to the press conference before, that he has taken ownership of the subsequent chaos that has enveloped the team. whether he feels he did anything wrong is another matter. He's not kind of apologised for that but I think he's taken ownership and recognised that the consequences of what happened after Lourdes have been bad for the team. They got whacked up at the Oval having made so many changes the debutants who came in it won't be a happy memory for those debutants at the Oval. So I think he acknowledges that but there was quite a lot of things that remained unsaid about the disciplinary process, about what happened over the 10 days subsequent to Lord.

21:06So you get the sense that he's kind of contrite for the effects of it, but not necessarily feels that he's done anything wrong. What did you take about what he was saying about his relationship with Ben and Rob Key, and indeed the fact that neither of them, straight out of the bat, came out and sort of supported him and said, right, he's still the captain until we've had the processes. I think he used the words frustrated or disappointed about the kind of whole process. I don't think that was particularly aimed at individuals, but well, not those two individuals, but about the whole kind of two-week period.

21:45But he's been quite keen, and Brendan was quite keen, to put to bed the stories, rumours of them having fallen out or that both of them have said we disagree about things, we have robust discussions, but our working relationship is fine. What I felt he was really interesting was a question I asked him about what Rob Key said about, in Rob Key's first press conference on the Sunday or the days after the Oval, after Lords, he said something like, it's more than just about what happened on Sunday night, and I took that to mean that he was worried that Ben was showing signs of being a captain for whom the job was taking a toll after four years.

22:30And in fact, he kind of... He admitted it, yeah. Yeah, he admitted that. He said it's a job that you can't let go. You do throw yourself into it, and it is a difficult job. And of course, some of us have been there, recognized that. But if you're taking one positive from all this, I got the sense that there was a man who had gone away for two weeks while the team was playing, and he's had a chance to think about those things and maybe try and get back to more of the relaxed persona that we saw maybe two or three years ago and maybe the way that he batted at Durham, which seemed to be with a bit more freedom and a bit more of the old assertive Ben Stokes, maybe those two things are connected, that he's felt he's been a bit too tight and a bit too pressurized and he's going to try and free himself up this week.

23:24Of course, it's not that easy to do. He's 35 and he hasn't scored runs for quite some time. This is a top-class New Zealand attack. And when the game has got you in its grip, it can have you in its grip. But I sense that that's what he's going to try and do. With his batting, he said something along the lines of, I was trying to find something that didn't need finding. So it goes to what you're just saying there. Do you empathise with how difficult that job is? You must do. Well, I think I certainly empathise with the strains of captaincy. When he said about his batting, he said, I'm not very good with time on my hands.

23:55And of course, he had that bad facial injury at the start of the year. And he hasn't played much first-class cricket for a number of reasons, injury and the schedules and all kinds of things. But I think he's a tinkerer and he's an overthinker when he's not on the field. And the fact that he's not had that much cricket outside the test matches and he's had that injury has meant that he's been overthinking things. And when he went back to Durham, he said, I just didn't think about very much. I tried to see the ball and hit the ball. Maybe he'll try and get back to that again. But again, as he admitted, it's not quite so straightforward.

24:30You just can't switch on a tap, particularly at 35 against a good attack. Just go back a step before we go forward. You specifically asked him about curfews and he basically just said, well, you've been cleared. He did. That's going back to what I said to you. I think he acknowledges that the chaos that enveloped the team is at his door. but it was clear that he doesn't feel that they've brought up a curfew. What do they do with curfews in now, given all of this? Well, you know my view on curfews. I just think they're ridiculous for a sporting team. I think you treat people like grown-ups, and if those grown-ups mess up, you come down hard, and that's one of the issues.

25:09One thing I didn't ask him about, you know, the double standards of what happened with Harry Brook in the winter, who went out before the game and hasn't missed a game. and they're chasing their tail a little bit from what happened in the winter. Let's move it forward then. He did mention about trust maybe slightly lost. Will he still have that dressing room for the next five days? I think so. He's an inspirational cricketer. He talked about possibly a loss of trust and having to regain it back. I think he also talked about being very gratified by the public reaction. I don't know whether that's a public reaction on Twitter or socials or whatever, but he senses, I think, that people are in his corner.

25:54He's probably likely to get a great reception here at Trent Bridge. It's a ground where he's enjoyed some success. It's a great cricket ground in itself, and I think he's going to get a hot welcome here, a nice welcome. That maybe will buoy him and the team. One thing it does mean with him back is England can balance the side. Well, I mean, what showed at the Oval was just how much they miss him. It is a glimpse of the future because he's 35, he's not going to be around forever. And in the end, they couldn't pick a spinner. You know, you end up with a slightly unbalanced side. So they've been much more balanced here with him as a fourth seamer.

26:31They're going to have to, well, Bashir is in the team and he has to be because it's going to be 38 degrees or 35 degrees tomorrow. So you've got to play a spinner. Bashir's had success here in the last couple of tests that he's played. and Stokes has been an inspirational cricketer and captain and they must hope he can be so again. They've got Archer over Robinson, that's sort of the one thing I looked at and I thought, just simply because of Joffre's workload. Yes, I don't think there's any question that you'd pick Archer in front of Robinson. If you see a flat pitch and you want more cutting edge, you'd pick Archer over Robinson.

27:09but we got to a stage at the Oval where effectively England said they couldn't bowl him one morning because he bowled eight overs the night before. How fit, how conditioned is he for test cricket given that this one is following hard on the heels of what happened at the Oval? So that's the only question mark there. But essentially they've kind of gone for a fast attack. That's been a theme of their time in charge and it came unstuck in Australia but they've gone for Tong, they've gone for Atkinson, they've gone for Archer, Stokes to provide the balance and Bashir the spin. With the three debutants that obviously came and have gone, how should we critique their performance given all that was going on?

27:52Well, I think it's been difficult in the two tests because the first test at Lourdes was a substandard pitch and that game finished effectively in two days. What conclusions do you draw from that? I'm not sure. Other than England won, great. And then what conclusions do you draw from the Oval? Well played New Zealand But this is an England team With three debutants And a couple playing Playing their second test match So you felt for Joe Rue Who I didn't think Had a particularly good Tactical game But also recognise That he's left holding You know A very inexperienced side here So I'm not sure How many conclusions You can draw from that either So Come here Yeah Let's have a shootout here Two sides Back at full strength And hopefully A good cricket pitch and let's see who comes out on top.

28:36What did New Zealand do so well then at the Oval? They fought themselves out of a tricky hole at 180 for five on that first day when the pitch was probably helpful at its most helpful for the bowlers. Glenn Phillips, brilliant, getting through that barrage from Joffre Archer. And once they'd got a hundred run lead on first innings, they kind of scrapped their way to that. And then when they were in front of the game, they did not let England back in. So it was a thoroughly kind of disciplined, professional performance from them. But they'll know they're up against a much stronger England team here.

29:12Plenty of subplots in this test. We're actually going to just pick one. With Blundell up to the stunts, Harry Brook may have some thinking to do as to how he approaches that. Yeah, I mean, New Zealand were the first team to do it actually on a tour to New Zealand a couple of tours ago. Australia did it with Carey. Blundell did it again the other day. teams will start to do it more and more in particular against Harry Brook who likes to dance around the crease so I mean that's the game isn't it good teams find little chinks in your armour they find the weaknesses and they start to drill down on those weaknesses and so Harry Brook will have to have an answer to that he'll know what's coming I suspect we might see him with an aggressive response as well if a spinner's on and a keeper's up it doesn't stop you running down the pitch but of course the key thing is that maybe two years ago, you know, they were so positive and aggressive and so clear in how they wanted to play and the conviction was there.

30:12Whereas now, two years later, after a bad ashes with people on their case, you know, will they be brave again? And I don't know. It's a different time. So do you think with what Ben has gone through and what he said to you about trying to find some positives and spending some time at Durham and not over-complicating things, Do you think he will bring that back? I think he'll try to. I think he'll try to. Everything we've heard from him today in our interview, talking about his batting, I think he'll try and bring that back. But it won't be completely straightforward. This is an excellent New Zealand team, an excellent attack.