England off to a flyer in the ICC Women's World Cup, Woakes calls time on his international career and play 'Nasser Bingo' with us!

0:00Nasser Hussain:Yeah, gone! Gone, he gets his fairytale ending! An epic way to go to a Test Match 100. The London Spear, the first time win is the most remarkable thing you've probably ever seen, Cricket! 6-0, 4 and final Test Wicket, that's new at all. It's ended, we'll win the T20 World Cup. England's captain, Ben Stokes, while he is there, England have hope.

0:31Nasser Hussain:This week's Sky Cricket podcast. I'm in Hertfordshire. Nasser is in Guwahati. We're a week or so into the Women's World Cup. The last time we were on the pod, Nasser, you were whinging about your visa. Clearly, the public whinge worked, and you managed to get a visa pronto after that. Firstly, that's just a lie. I wasn't whinging. Secondly, that's not the whole story. I got in eventually. Friday night, the visa came through, six o 'clock for me monday morning flight and everything went perfectly and then i was so tired i slept from delhi to guahati on the internal flight and i slept so well i left my passport on the plane so i got off the plane having spent a month to get a visa trying to get into the country i don't think i could get out of the country so everyone was scrambling around to find my passport, which I eventually got at Guwahati Cricket Club or Cricket Ground.

1:29So I'm here safe and well, enjoying the tournament. We're about a week into it now, aren't we? And the top three are the top three. England, Australia and India sit at the top of the group.

1:41Nasser Hussain:The top three. I'm sure I heard a prediction from you on Sky Cricket that said India, Australia, South Africa were your top three. That's what you said. That's what you said. That was before South Africa-England match. Don't be backtracking. Again, that's two lies. You made two statements in this pod, and they're both lies. So you better have a good lawyer. What I said was the two definites to go through would be India and Australia, who are the top two in the group. So I'm right so far. And two out of England, South Africa, and New Zealand would go through. That's not what you said. You said two out of South Africa were your first name, England and New Zealand.

2:24Nasser Hussain:Anyway, what's Guwahati like as one of the few venues on the international circuit I don't think I've been to? You've been sat on your handsome backside for the last three days, given that there's been no cricket. I mean, has curiosity got the better of you? I've just been sat in your room eating biryani as usual. That's the first bit of truth you've come out with, my handsome backside. I've been eating a lot of biryani, which means I have to go to the gym a bit. So the food is exceptional. I tell you what, my geography of India, having been born here, is just like all over the place. I did not realize how far north and east Guwahati is.

3:03Guwahati is up from Bangladesh, nearly into Tibet. We just have to go a bit further north and we're into Tibet. So I like the culture here. I have to be honest. It's a real mix. The foods are mixed. The people are a mix. A bit of rain still. We're coming to the end of the rainy season. So every day we have a bit of rain, which affected the first game, India-Sri Lanka. Colombo had a bit of rain as well, one game off there. So that might be a factor. But, yeah, Guwahati's nice. Food's lovely. Cricket is good. The pitch is good. And England play tomorrow. That's my next game. England-Bangladesh in Guwahati tomorrow.

3:43Bangladesh won their first game as well.

3:46Nasser Hussain:So reflect on England's opening match or mismatch, really, would be a better description of it. I don't think, I mean, you know, you could imagine England winning. I don't think anybody imagined such a comfortable win. And a good day for Lindsay Smith, who often gets overshadowed in the left arm spin stakes. Yeah, 69, all that. We'll take that when you win the toss and bowl. Brilliant. England were outstanding. Lindsay Smith just does what she does with that new ball. Little drifters in. The South African batters kept playing for the turn, came bowled through the gate. What was she? Four overs, three for seven.

4:25It was nice to see Nat Siverbrunt back bowling. She bowled a few overs in the warm-up games, but not a lot.

4:30Nasser Hussain:I mean, that was the balance of England's side with the three spinners, two seamers, with Nat Siverbrunt being one of those. That's a bit like Ben Stokes, I suppose, in the men's side. It makes such a difference to the balance of the team, doesn't it? It does. They may go different tomorrow with Bangladesh. They may want another pacer for Bangladesh. They may go Lauren Filer or they may stick with the winning formula. But yeah, that was good to see. South Africa, not so good, really. It wasn't a minefield, as England showed when they just chased them off, none down. And India got 269 on it in the first game.

5:04It was just a slowish pitch, didn't turn much. Turned a bit for Eccleston, who bowled nicely. So South Africa will be really disappointed. Having a good year in 50-over cricket and players in real good form at the top of the order, they'll be disappointed with their batting and some of their selections as well, I thought, were a bit odd. They've got a massive game today as we speak.

5:29Nasser Hussain:By the time the pod goes out, that result will probably be in and have a chance to put them right today. And elsewhere, I mean, hundreds for Sophie Devine, Ash Gardner, India 2 from 2. What's your general impressions of the tournament so far? I think India have been decent, but no better than that. I did the first game against Sri Lanka, where it took their middle order and lower order to pull them out of a hole a little bit. Deep Tishama, you know, played really well with the tail. And in the last game yesterday, Aminjad didn't play. She played really well in the first game as well with Sneer Rana.

6:05But a lot of batters getting in and getting out and then some drop chances as well. So India may be two from two, but still not quite at their best. You know, Svritti Mandana, who's been exceptional this year, she hasn't quite clicked. Arman Preeta Skipper hasn't quite clicked. But if they do, then they will be a threat. The tournament is as expected, I would say. Australia, Ash Gardner was quite brilliant coming in down the order. They have so many batting options. It is ridiculous. And you fear for some... I've always thought in these World Cups, ICC events, You fear for some of the tiny, smaller Asian batters, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pakistan yesterday.

6:48They just get a bit overpowered. I do think power and size is very important in the women's game. Still, even with touch players around and you can just see the power belongs at the moment to the likes of Australia, India, England to a degree as well. So I've been very impressed with England, I have to be honest. I know it's only one game, but when the card came up at the toss in that game the other day against South Africa, you looked at that side and you wondered why all the doom and gloom was for England, to be honest. I think the doom and gloom comes a bit in a knockout game. And we won't know that possibly until the end of the tournament where they have three tough fixtures.

7:29They have India, New Zealand and Australia and then possibly knockout game. So that's when it'll be the point for England to really dig deep. But on paper, they look a very strong side.

7:41Nasser Hussain:You're talking about power and muscle there. I was listening to an interview that Stuart Law did, who's coaching Nepal at the moment, isn't he? And they did well. They beat West Indies in a series. And he was talking about six hitting and how you don't necessarily, I think I'm right in saying you don't necessarily have to be, you know, big and strong and muscly to hit six as if your technique and your kind of shape is good. And, you know, Nepal's batters had managed to do that. So it's not just necessarily about muscle. No, it is technique, but it does help. Just in the gym with Carlos Braffoy, actually, there was a slight discrepancy in body shape between me and Carlos.

8:26One was a proper six-sitter, the other one wasn't. So, yeah, look, I do think it's important, but it's not vital. There are some wonderful touch players. Smitty Mandana, the number one batter in this format in the world, isn't a big, strong woman. She's got lovely touch and timing. So it's not the be-all and end-all, but I do think it helps.

8:46Nasser Hussain:And handshake gate continued between India and Pakistan. Yeah, it's all a bit disappointing, isn't it, Ath? I mean, that's why I used to really enjoy these, and still do enjoy these ICC events, is because it is for all the politics that goes on, And you turn up and you see just cricket being played and you see India and Pakistan, men and women, get on so well. And, you know, it just politics takes over and it leaves a sort of sour taste in your mouth. You just know how well the players get on. So it is disappointing, but it is what it is. And I know you've written about it and you've stated that maybe it shouldn't be a given that India-Pak.

9:29It's always been a given, isn't it, in the group stages of men's and women's cricket, the ICC have, India-Pakistan, for obvious reason, for the financial reason, you feel maybe with what's going on now it shouldn't be a given?

9:42Nasser Hussain:Well, I think any serious sport shouldn't have a draw for World Cups that is not transparent and open and everybody knows why. I think it's since 2013, isn't it? the India-Pakistan games have been arranged so that if it's not just one group, obviously if it's just one round robin, they're going to play each other because everybody plays each other. But if they're in group phases, they've been put together and there's been a tacit kind of acknowledgement or approval of that for all the obvious reasons. One, the scarcity of the fixture and B, the economics of it. But as you say, once it becomes a proxy for kind of propaganda and politics, I think that argument carries less weight.

10:31Nasser Hussain:And I also think just a serious sport should have a more formal and open process around its draws for World Cup fixtures. Even with the game's finances, not hinging on it. Well, yeah, I mean, obviously you couldn't do it in the middle of a broadcast deal because broadcast rights are determined by, you know, that's part of the reason why it's so valuable. But ahead of a new round of broadcast talks, then I think I'd make it pretty clear that it should be a formal process. And the other thing, unfortunately, it has gone, the discrepancy has gone in sides as well. India and the women yesterday, I think it was 12-0, 12-0 in ICC events.

11:17So we all build it up as, you know, even I, when I throw to a graphic and the next game coming up and I go, And now the next, the big game, India-Pakistan, it's 12-0 India. So, and I know we're going to come on to India-West Indies, the test match that's just finished. The difference between the haves and the have-nots, it's just growing wider and wider. And that's why in this tournament, as I'm sitting here, I hope Sri Lanka pull off and ups out. I hope tomorrow Bangladesh get really close or even could beat England. You want to turn up to a game and see and realize and hope that both sides could win it.

11:53At the moment in cricket, and that was the great thing about the Test Series in summer, England-India, was that you didn't know which way it was going to go. At the moment in cricket, international cricket, there's a lot of turning up and your gut feel is that you know the result. That toss went up, India-West Indies Test match. And the moment the coin came down and West Indies batted for us, I could probably tell you what was going to go on in that game. They were going to get a score that was below par. India were going to bat on miles past them and bowled them out second time around. And that's pretty much what happened.

12:26It's a bit too predictable and demoralizing, really.

12:30Nasser Hussain:That means one of the advantages that franchise cricket has over international cricket, once, well, when we played international cricket, there was a level playing field, really, in terms of finances and economics of the game, because there's essentially no money in the game. But once satellite television drives the finances of the game And the markets with big satellite television markets Are the UK, Australia and India And once that drives the market And the changes to how the finances of the game are portioned Then that's going to drive a discrepancy as you say Whereas non-international cricket, franchise cricket I suppose works differently because you're getting people in through drafts and auctions and therefore you can create competitive tension regardless.

13:22Nasser Hussain:It doesn't matter really where the players come from because you're not producing those players and you're not limited to selecting players from within those boundaries. So competitive tension is much easier to manipulate or create in a franchise environment. And that's going to be one of the challenges that international cricket faces down the line because, as you say, you need – the beauty of sport is the uncertainty and the not knowing, and that's the main reason really why people keep coming to live sport to watch. You know that films are on – you can get whatever film you want on whichever platform you want to watch it, but live sport is a rarity and that's why broadcasters pay top dollar for it and because people keep coming because of that uncertainty.

14:11Nasser Hussain:and once the uncertainty starts to wither away, then it's problematic. And that's problematic for international cricket because, as I say, the competitive balance can easily be manipulated in franchise cricket. So thumping win for India there. Sorry, two things I will say is that, one, the country that's broken the rule is South Africa. I mean, South Africa, World Test Champions, even in ICC events, men and women, I know that 69 all out the other day, but they absolutely seem to be able to keep their standards going. Well, they're not playing any Test cricket at home, the manless reason. Yeah, but even without Test cricket at home and even without massive broadcast deals, etc.

14:58And also, let's be honest, what happened to the West Indies the other day, happens to England, happens to a lot of sides coming here to India. and that New Zealand, that's why that New Zealand series where they came here and won 3-0 really stands out. I mean, has anything been done or can be done? I know you go to Lords and there's World Cricket Connects and all these forums and discussions and MCC and put it all together. Does that ever get followed up on and money and a pool going?

15:25Nasser Hussain:You know, there's kind of worthy attempts to chat about these things and the World Cricketers Association put out a paper, you know, a year ago, but my view, and I've said it before to you on this podcast, is it's just too late now that these issues needed to be tackled at the start of the franchise world. That's been the great disruption for cricket. And you're going back now 15 years or more since that started, and it was obvious what was going to happen to me 15 years ago. So that's when you needed to tackle it. It's too far gone now, too far down the line. What do you do now? Do you go two-division?

16:03Yeah, I mean, like the crowd. I mean, first of all, I'm not sure they should have had it in Ahmedabad with that massive stadium. You know, like five, six years ago, I think Virat Kohli said, maybe not as long as that, but Kohli said something about having centers for test match cricket, having five or six grounds at your test match grounds in India and hope to sell those out year in, year out. It was odd to have it in Ahmedabad, but there was no one in watching. And if you know the result and it's hot and, you know, You're not going to go and watch it. You may watch it on TV or listen on the radio.

16:36I'm sure a lot of Indian fans did that. But what do you think? Should it be two divisions then? And you just get closer games?

16:45Nasser Hussain:We've talked about this before. Two divisions is fine once it's promotion and relegation. But try telling Richard Thompson and Richard Gould, who are going to start renegotiating a television deal for their next rights cycle, Try telling them that you're going to be Potentially in Division 2 And negotiating a broadcast deal Where you don't know which division you're going to win Going to be in I'm sure what they want are two tiers And the tiers never shall meet There'll be no promotion, no relegation They'd all love that But I don't believe in that Because then you're just A second tier will wither away A second tier A second tier have got to have an ambition To get into the first tier But I would define tiers as being separate and divisions encouraging promotion and relegation.

17:36Nasser Hussain:I mean, tiers would be the American way of looking at sport. American sport generally doesn't have promotion and relegation, does it? And it grows leagues and that's how it does it. But we in cricket and in England have had a tradition of promotion and relegation, certainly in our county championship, and there's often good drama around that. But if at the moment you separate it and don't allow promotion or relegation, then that second tier, what have you got to play for? You've got to allow ambition in sport. And as we've seen with the West Indies, it can't be, things change. You know, one day you're top of the pops and the top team and 10 years later you're not.

18:21Nasser Hussain:So you can't just be, you know, ensconced in a division with no jeopardy if there's a bit of a downturn. So I don't know what they're going to do around divisions. There's a lot of chat, but the promotion and relegation, given that the finances of countries is based upon broadcast deals, you know, no broadcasters want to pump hundreds of millions in if you don't know which division a country is going to be in. So that's something to, a hurdle to kind of get over. Ravindra Jadeja, man of the match, player of the match. I got Benedict to just knock out the stats. I mean, an incredible record as an all-rounder, almost 4 ,000 runs, 330-odd wickets, a batting average 38, bowling average 25.

19:12Nasser Hussain:So the differential there is marked, isn't it? And Benny, I'm trying to get up the stats now, but he put them on our little WhatsApp group about Ravindra Jadeja. And he is right up there in terms of the differential between batters and bowlers. Yeah, incredible cricketer, really. In India, he has a slightly different role where his bowling comes to the fore, but he just gets hundreds like he did the other day. You give him a bit of responsibility with the bat and he'll get runs, as he did in England in the summer. I mean, he was quite brilliant where the ball wasn't spinning so much. So his bowling isn't as effective.

19:51He's one of those all-rounders that says, right, so I'm not doing as much with the ball. I'll do more with the bat. And that's exactly what he did. And he gets his tempo of his batting spot on. And something I'd always thought about India, I know Ashwin has gone now, has retired, but India's strength at home came for having three world-class all-rounders in Jadeja Ashwin and Akshar Patel as well, in those conditions to come in at 6, 7, 8, or even 7, 8, 9 if they wanted, you know, is just fab. Incredible cricketer.

20:24Nasser Hussain:I found the stats. I'm going to ask you a quiz question here. Oh, there we go. Could you not send... Sorry, I should have put this on our podcast WhatsApp, but I got Benny to send it to me. 36 players have scored 2 ,000-plus runs in Test cricket and taken 100 wickets in Test. 36. The top 12 in terms of ratio of batting average to bowling average. And Jadeja... You've lost me. Jadeja is fifth on that list. So a fantastic record. But who are the all-rounders with a better ratio of batting average to bowling average than him? I'm not going to... As the great man Rob Key once quoted, stats are for Pratt.

21:07So I'm not going to go on stats. Well, I mean, there's some obvious ones, aren't there? Sobus, Cali... Both of them? No. Not both of them? No.

21:16Nasser Hussain:Okay. One's relatively modern and you might get him. And the other one is you've got to go back to the 50s. Come on, tell me. Imran. I'm terrible. Imran Khan. Yeah, Imran. And Keith Miller. Keith Miller. A bit before my time. Sobas Kallis, Imran, Keith Miller. Jadej and our old friend, Sean Pollock. I said this on the pod that I don't think we quite realise in talking enough. Everyone says we don't talk enough about Callies. Because everyone says that, it means you are talking about Callies. The one we don't talk about enough is Sean Pollock, actually. It pains me to say it. No, we can't. We can't bang on about Callie on this podcast.

22:00Sean Pollock.