England vs New Zealand: England's bowlers light up The Oval on day one, 2nd Test!

0:04Hello and welcome. It's day one of the second Test Match. We're live from the Oval. It's the first day and the review of that with Nasser Hussain and Dinesh Karthik. Curfew gate looms large over pretty much everything that has done for the last 10 days. But we'll perhaps leave that at the moment and start where all good stories do and that is at the beginning. Three debutantes in the Test match for England. Five changes in all, but three young men who are very excited and very, very happy to have got the chance to represent their country. Sonny Baker, Jordan Cox and James Rood. Do you boys remember your first game?

0:40I was Jamaica against Patrick Patterson and the rest. So, no.

0:48Dinesh Karthik:I've tried to completely blank it from my memory, but we did win that Test. I think I was caught behind off Ian Bishop for 13. I'll take that. 13, yeah, pretty good. British got me. What was that tour, 1990, was it? 89, 90, yeah. That was the famous one. I think that was the first one Sky had an away tour, so it was good fun. We were a very young side. We had a few debutantes as well. Alex Stewart played that. I roomed with him. It was a good, fun trip, but not facing that fearsome West Indies attack. DK, you have any memories of your first time in the Test match arena? Interestingly, my debut in first class, I was one of three.

1:31So three of us debuted in that game together. In international cricket, my debut was against Australia in Mumbai. It's a very famous game because it got over in a day and a half. Australia were chasing 100 in the last innings and they got all out for 75 or 80. So it was a very famous game that way. Australia won the series, but again, I was one of two in terms of debutants there as well. Myself and Kautam Gambhir debuted in the same game. And you, Butch? Where was your debut? Mine was, Edge was your game. The 200. Double up, 200 and seven. Yeah, 200.

2:00Dinesh Karthik:Was it 270? 200 and seven. You got that many, did you? Yeah. That was your debut game. Warren, McGrath. You must have thought I could play, eh? Yeah. You soon dispelled that particular thought. No, yourself and Graham thought with that incredible partnership we're one nil up in the ashes. That was my first taste of it. I remember it was very similar actually to this morning. One nil up and you got a double hundred in that test. What happened to that test? That's the test we won. First test of the series and then the wheels came off after that. Six match series, yeah. We went one nil up. We still one nil up at the third test and ended up losing the series 3-2.

2:34The thing I remember about that and I wonder if, you know, I interviewed all three of the debutants this morning and they all seem to be very, very relaxed. I wonder if things are much different now for players. They play Lions games. They're very much more in tune and around all the players. They don't walk into a dressing room full of people that they were perhaps admiring from afar, but had never met them. Was that the case with you? You said you had Mark Rambracash and Alec. You had people that you played with back in... Yeah, but we may have played some A tours together,

3:08Dinesh Karthik:remember, in those days, the odd A tour. But I literally walked in and there was Alan Lamb there and Robin Smith and all these legends. I think Wayne Larkins had been playing for North Ants for years, so it was a bit of an eye-opener for me. But not only just your team, like that West Indies team. The first time I faced Patrick Patterson would be the first time I've ever faced him in any game of cricket. I had no footage to look at. No, exactly. Whereas now they all know each other so well. They play franchise cricket with and against each other, so it's not like an intimidation factor. But the biggest thing, as we said this morning on the pitch, is the occasion.

3:45Dinesh Karthik:You're playing in a test match at the Oval, this famous old ground. You've waited all your life for that moment. You basically don't want to fluff your lines. I don't think all three of them have. They've been pretty good. I was going to ask you. So they go in, when you get your cap number playing for England, it goes in alphabetical order. So Sonny Baker is 7-2-1, Jordan Cox 7-2-2, James Rue 7-2-3. Let's start with Sonny Baker. He's picked up a couple of wickets. A lot of people wouldn't have seen him. He's only played 13 first-class games. How has he gone today? I think he's gone well. I like his attitude.

4:19Dinesh Karthik:I think on Deb, you look at attitude more than anything else. He plays with a smile on his face. He loves bowling. And I think that will stand him in good stead because bowling is hard work. I thought he bowled better from the end that we're at, what we call the Vauxhall end. And when he moved up the pavilion end, he really struggled a little bit. He was bowling from where the stumps are. and he didn't quite have the rhythm. He got wicket. Who was it? Mitchell pulled one to mid-wicket. But he looked better at the Vauxhall end. But I like him. I like his attitude. They say he's a real learner. He's willing to learn.

4:53Dinesh Karthik:He's always asking, how do I get better? And I think that's a key when you're trying to become an international cricketer for a long time. James Rue, wicketkeeper on debut. He even mentioned it himself, that odd circumstances to come in with Jamie Smith having paternity leave after the birth of his daughter. How's he gone behind the stumps? Looked pretty tidy? Yeah, I think he had a good day. Won't say a great day because I think he was really tested as a weekend keeper on both sides, to his left and right. At times, there could have been a couple that he could have stopped, but overall, the catches that came his way, he took.

5:28It was a pretty clean day in terms of the number of times he took anything that came wobbling at him. So the basic things he did very well. but I must say it was a it was baptism by fire in many ways because he was just moving left right almost throughout the day I mean Jofra Arshabold a brilliant spell at the back end and even in that spell he was tested ones that were going over him to the side of him and all of that so I think he'd be happy with how the day went but can he do better work behind the stands I think there is possibility of him getting better as a wicket keeper yeah 44 extra string and there are lots and lots of buys and wides, none of which were James Rue's fault, I must add.

6:08On the day's play, I mean, as we sit here at the moment, New Zealand 284 for seven, New Zealand won the toss, sorry, England won the toss and stuck New Zealand in. It's been a slightly odd day because I don't think either side has been anywhere near at its best. And yet at the moment, you would say on an oval pitch that England are probably just about ahead?

6:27Dinesh Karthik:Yeah, I think so. I think you know this pitch well. this year in county championship cricket, if someone said 284 for seven, the bowling side will say, thank you very much, we'll take that. Now, obviously, this is international cricket and the quality of bowling in Archer, the Spelly Boulder against Phillips is still going on here now. The battle between Phillips and Archer was box office. I think New Zealand will be a little bit concerned and the softness of some of the distant missiles with a lot of batters getting in and getting out. You know, there's a lot of starts in there and the oval, if you can get in and go big, that's a way to make a massive score in your first innings.

7:07Dinesh Karthik:And they're putting up the scorecard there and there's a load of 30s, 20s, 40s. And no one has gone on and made that meaningful contribution. 51 top score by Tom Blundell. I mean, would you agree with that? New Zealand have kind of been architects of their own downfall through most of the day. I completely agree with what Nasser said. purely because I think the pitch was, for a start, much, much better than what it was at Lourdes. There were not too many demons out there. Yes, the odd ball seemed, and probably they had to fight for the runs. It wasn't the flattest pitch, but definitely not one where you want to be 284 for seven, or if I had to break it down a little further, one where you do get start and you throw it away.

7:50A couple of batters would be sitting down there thinking, did I play the right shot there? Could I have got a little more? and I think the answer to that question to themselves would be yes.

7:58Dinesh Karthik:I have to say England didn't quite get it right as a bowling game. You have to give them a little bit of leeway. It's an inexperienced bowling attack. What was it, 29 caps in total for the seamers before this game? I think maybe more than one. Before, right. Before this game. So they just bowled both sides of the wiki. I think the first half hour there were a lot of leaves, so it looked pretty outside the off stump, and then they corrected, but they overcorrected, and there was a lot of balls down the leg side, They had a lot of clip balls, you know, as a left-hander. You just love a ball that you can clip it away to the leg side.

8:30Dinesh Karthik:So I don't think they quite got their lines right. But there was quite a lot of movement maybe after the ball went past the stumps. But they kept the shine on the ball. We've had a lot of rain in early June here in London. And the oval outfield is very green and the pitches are very green. So they kept the Duke's ball very shiny on one side. and it's swung throughout the day, which will keep New Zealand's high-quality bowling attack interested tomorrow at some stage. Jacob Bethel picked up a couple of wickets. Neither team decided to play a spinner. Mitch Santler sat it out. You could understand why from New Zealand's point of view.

9:05England had the opportunity, perhaps, at number seven to play Rayan Ahmed, but they chose to go with Cox, Jordan Cox, and lengthen the batting line-up. Do you think that that might be a problem later on in the game or not? Maybe a bit. If the game, you know, the pitch really becomes abrasive at the back end. The county champo matches tell you that, sorry, I haven't played a spinner, even though they haven't got a great spinner. Now they've got Rahul Chayar in, so hopefully he helps them in their championship journey. But I think days four and five, there is definitely a role for the spinner, but for the first three days.

9:39And it also tells you the value of it batting all-round. I mean, Stokes is missing this game, tells you what he gives you in terms of a sheer combination. when you're able to play that extra spinner purely because you know he can do the fourth seamer's job. And on a day like this is when you think, you know, Stokes' bowling would have been quite a handful to have. But definitely, I think this bowling attack is good enough for the first innings and for the first three, three and a half days. It's only at the back end. More than England, I think New Zealand will feel the heat a little bit more because they'll be bowling fourth on a pitch which will probably assist their spinners if they had played.

10:11They don't have one as well. Glenn Phillips is the one and Rachin Ravindra. So it's going to be interesting how they line up. But for England, I must say that they've gone with depth in their batting. And understandably so. The fact that they don't have a pace bowling all-rounder is why they've gone with four paces.

10:26Dinesh Karthik:I know you well, Mark Butcher. You would have wanted some kind of spin option, wouldn't you? I mean, our group WhatsApp, it was heated at one stage. You wanted Rayan Ahmed. I think Af wanted Udi. He won Harrison. Calvin Harrison. I think I wanted Dan Lawrence at one stage. you came in today saying I would never go into a game without a spinner they've gone this way both sides have gone with very similar balance to their sides really and that as DK says the value of Stokes Bashir's had an interesting couple of games actually he played at Lords and didn't bowl a ball when he shouldn't have played and here he hasn't played and towards the end of this game because the forecast is get hot it may spin it's quite dry underneath it might well do he's had an interesting time isn't it we were talking about it so Bashir hasn't played a test match for England since the, what was it, the second or third test against India?

11:17At Lords when he broke his hat. So it's been a long time between rodeos for him. Now, you mentioned Ben Stokes. I just want to ask you all a question. You were discussing about spinners on the WhatsApp group. There's Shoaib Bashir in the team, but Athos wanted Calvin Harrison, you wanted Rehan Ahmed, you want Dan Lawrence. Why is the name Shoaib Bashir not making the rounds amongst... Can I say first, mine was a horses for courses,

11:39Dinesh Karthik:that this pitch is not a big spinning pitch. It used to be in our day when we played, Tufnels bowled him out here, Warn was magical, Sackle, Mushtak, Mushtak Ahmed. You go through the history of the Oval and it used to spin. Nowadays, what Surrey do is have that part-time spinner. In Dan Lawrence, he's a bit better than part-time, but so I would have gone, and he's in good form and he's getting runs as well. So that's why I'd have gone him. I don't know if I would have gone a front-line spinner on here. Yeah, I mean, my reasoning, behind it is partly because with the four quicks that England were always going to play no matter what with none of them with Archer probably being the best of the batters there but eight feels a little even a little bit high for him but that's fine because the pitch is very flat so Rayan Ahmed has first class hundreds is a very very handy batter coming in down at number seven and as a not as a I guess frontline spinner is a bit much he's taken test match five for six that it's just something very different and if the game goes deep then you have that you have a wicket taking option as a spin bowler later on so in in this occasion on this occasion given the makeup of England's side I would have gone for Rahehan instead of Shahid Bashir that's and that's and that was basically they will say well oh Jacob Bethel's got two for here on the first day but again you're kind of I'm thinking more the other end of the game whereas you know sometimes the selections are very much based on what might happen on the first two days but anyway you You mentioned Ben Stokes and we've got people watching now, so we might as well get into it.

13:11You were very impassioned at the lunch break, Nass, on the question of Ben Stokes. And perhaps the question that hasn't been answered about Ben Stokes. Everybody knows the details as much as they're out in the public domain about what happened and why he's been suspended and why Gus Atkinson has been suspended. But the question that hasn't been answered is by either McCollum or Key or anybody at the ECB is, is Ben Stokes still England captain? And there hasn't been an answer to that. And I guess my view...

13:44Dinesh Karthik:With the proviso, obviously, of what happens in this process that they're going through. Yes, of there not being anything horrendous that would then preclude that. But there hasn't been, nobody has turned around and said, you know what, if Ben mentally is okay, if the review or whatever it is, the investigation turns up nothing more than a breaking of the curfew, Ben Stokes is our captain and we want him back. Nobody has said that. Why? I don't know. And that's what I did say at lunch is that I think it is time and now and even before now when they were asked that they should have maybe backed their captain a little bit more.

14:21Dinesh Karthik:The captain has been there for this whole team for a very long time now. He has put the side first. He's put on performances. He's bowled some spells where his body is falling apart. He's got great emotional intelligence of handling players on and off the field that haven't quite got it right. And he's put his arm around people when they've gone through difficult patches. And the first time that he goes through this difficult patch, Remember all the stuff from Bristol and even before that on A tours and Lions tours? That was an old Ben Stokes. This version of Ben Stokes, this is the first time he's messed up.

14:57Dinesh Karthik:And he did mess up. He broke his own curfew that he was part of instigating. The first time he does that, everyone has just gone, whoa, we're not backing you yet. I would have liked just a little bit of Ben's our captain and he's still our captain. and once we got through this process, he will lead England in the future. Unless you don't think he gets in the side because of where his batting is, or more importantly and more likely, Ben Stokes himself says, I'm done with the captaincy. It hits us all eventually. He hit Atherton, he hit Vaughan, he hit Stokes, he hit me. Between the eyes, it hits you.

15:36Dinesh Karthik:I don't want to do this job anymore. And that, for me, is actually the most major decision. Does Ben Stokes sit there and think, I want to do this job anymore? If he does, I believe he should come back as England captain. Outsiders view? Yeah, I think looking at what they've got, the fact that they've gone for route ahead of Brook, even in this test match, tells you they're not fully convinced there. So for me, without a doubt, he's the best man for the job. The question is whether he wants it, and that's the big one. OK, good answer. 2.91 for seven, things have finished up here very late. You've nailed that perfectly, and you're right on last ball.

16:08Dinesh Karthik:You've nailed that perfectly. It's very much more luck than judgment. wickets apiece for Archer, Fisher and Tongue Sonny Baker with two Jacob Bethel with two New Zealand might well be kicking themselves that they haven't made better use of what have been fantastic batting conditions albeit a little bit of swing at times but that just about rounds it up here for day one an interesting test match in prospect the Stokes story will run and run and we might get round to Joe Root and his captaincy today but for now Dinesh NASA, thank you so very much and we'll see you tomorrow.