England vs Pakistan: Root guides England to 3rd Test victory after nervy start

0:01Yeah, gone! Gone! He gets his fairytale ending! An epic way to go to a Test Match 100. The London Spirit of First Time win is the most remarkable thing you'll probably ever see in cricket. 604 and final Test Wicket for Stuart Ford. It's ended when the T20 World Cup. England's captain Ben Stokes, while he is there, England have hope. Hello, welcome. It's day four, lunchtime. England have completed a clean sweep against Pakistan for the very first time ever in England. In truth, it probably wasn't as close as it ended up looking. Pakistan had glimmers of hope this morning when Muhammad Abbas took two wickets in his very first over.

0:47England reduced to 0 for 2. I've got Uruj and Nasser alongside me. In the end, England, comfortable winners. and Pakistan probably got pretty much what they deserved out of the entire series, which is nothing. I think so. I think what they had in the last few days was great to see. Brought a smile to Aruj's face, let alone the whole of Pakistan and everyone watching. And yesterday was just a great day. We've waited for that day for a long time, especially if you're a Pakistan fan. But in all honesty, Mark, it was too little, too late. There's too much going on, on and off the field to just have those moments and think, well, that will be fine.

1:26Those moments aren't enough. And against a side like England playing at home, who were ruthless to an extent. I thought they lost the plot a bit yesterday. But I think what Pakistan did was a little bit too little, too late. And even those two early wickets today, it was like, well, can they? But I think the lack of spinner as well, some lack of front-line spinner. If you get them two for two and then your spinner comes on a bit later, you know, Saeed Ajmal or Mushi or someone like that, then you've got a chance. But they didn't have a frontline spinner here. They sent him home and they got what they deserved.

1:58Rooji, talk to us about Razula. You know, his story, quite extraordinary. I think they needed to send somebody to go and find him up in the far north of the country because his phone switched off, just to tell him that he was on his way over. A real bright point for Pakistan in the tour. something that used to be almost regulation, I suppose, for Pakistan teams, that you would have these young players come in and make an impact. How important is it that they manage him well and also give himself and the likes of Azan Awais the chance to become bedded into a test match team without the constant chopping and changing?

2:36I think the biggest thing would be stability. Stability, a right framework, right people at the helm of affairs and sticking to a plan that they think that might work for a long period of time. managing players, sort of providing them a home that they can call home and feel comfortable in. Like I use the word sense of belonging. You and I were on comms when we said that. It seems to be not the place that the players really want to be and they're not sure whether they're going to be there tomorrow. That's the other thing as well. So there are a lot of things that Pakistan cricket has offered in the past.

3:06Chaos has always been that he's associated with Pakistan cricket. But these are turbulent times and I think it just needs to mellow down slightly. less people, I think, also in the kitchen to cook up something that Pakistan has a rich history of. And Razahullah and Azan Uwais are two examples of the fact that there is still talent. Saad being the recent Under-19 captain. Farhan Yusuf was currently the captain of the Under-19s playing in England against the English Under-19 team. Ali Raza as well at the PSL we've seen. And so many more that there are available. So it's all there. And for Pakistan, I think this is the worst time that they found themselves in a very rich, illustrious history of the cricket.

3:44So I think there's a little bit of sanity needs to prevail and it really needs to come together very quickly because the records are not starting to stack up against Pakistan in dramatic fashion. 1999, Ash, you took over as Ignath captain. We're the worst team in the world, right? It kind of, sometimes it takes reaching rock bottom for you to be able to look soberly at the errors and the problems, try to rectify them and have enough patience to kind of turn things around. Do you think Pakistan, with this tour, will actually go, you know what, it's now time for us to start to take this very seriously and take a long-term view as to how things get better?

4:20No, because history is a good reflection of the future, really. If you look at the history of Pakistan and the changes, the changes in coaches, selectors, batting coaches, bowling coaches, everything gets changed. And that's what's happened these last few weeks. You had Safraz as a coach. He will want a certain group of players. and then you'll get Mike Hesson comes in and he'll want a completely different. So that's where your change isn't actually coming from the players themselves and their performance. The change is coming from people above coming in and new people. And you go back to when I took over as captain, the two most important things was the lack of change above.

4:56So central contracts came in. So we all felt we belong, that word you've both used, we belong to an England cricket team. And Duncan Fletcher came in and was one of the longest serving England coaches. And you know what Duncan was like. He was very consistent. He was very stubborn. If he had a firm belief in something, he would stick with that. The amount of times I went to dunk you sure, and you go, no, I'm absolutely certain this is the path we're going on. The bowling attack, I might have wanted a slightly slower bowler, swing bowler, Giddens Bicknell. He was known, I want pace, and it led to the 2005 bowling attack with pace.

5:29So he didn't want a front-line spinner. He wanted someone like Ashley Giles who could bowl spin, but also could bat and could field. So it's that stubbornness above that Pakistan cricket need. It's not chopping and changing as we had in the 90s is no good for anyone. No, certainly not. Let's reflect on England's performances over the course of the summer. Ollie Robinson has had an incredible year, 21 wickets at 8.2 after a long time out in the wilderness, Nass. Has he now sort of quietened all the doubt around his longevity, his fitness, his ability to bowl more spells? Or is that still a question that's unanswered, given how easily England have won most of these tests?

6:13It is unanswered, because as we saw late yesterday, in their one bad day, he regressed to the mean as well. His speeds were down and he was a lot easier to play. But that's with a lot of bowlers when Pakistan's issue was they weren't taking England to their third, fourth spells. They're bowlers. So most bowlers' speeds will drop a little bit. He is what he is. He's a highly skilled bowler. And if you keep him out there long enough, 78 miles an hour ends up 74 miles an hour, 75 miles an hour. And that, as you know, is a lot easier to face even if it is nipping around. But you cannot argue with the stats of him this summer.

6:48Absolutely fantastic. New ball wickets up front. Three when he came back in his first game at Lords. Two here in that first inning. Sets the tone. Wobbles it around. Highly skilled. Very difficult to play. Good bowler to right-handers. Good bowler to left-handers. Bats well. Got 50. There's some down-the-order runs as well. There's always a, you know, every cricketer, every captain, there's a lot of things they do well in some areas that you've got to work on. I think that's the area now. Fleming and Triscothic and whoever just need to keep someone on his shoulder between now and December the 17th or when Johannesburg is and say, what are your fitness levels?

7:24How are we going to keep an eye on Ollie Robinson to make sure that he rocks up fit for that first Test match? Because often you heard McCollum talking about Joffre. and he would always say we didn't need to keep an eye on Joffre because when Joffre turns up, he's ready to go for that first ball. So you've got to make sure that when Oli Robinson turns up in December, he's ready for that first ball. Different management style for different players.

7:55Other players have caught the eye over the course of the summer and who will face not questions, but will be sort of part of discussion around England's next 11 when they go to South Africa. Give us an outsider's view on what you have made of, first of all, Jordan Cox batting at number three, and second, Dan Lawrence. England, in the absence of a genuine all-rounder, have put a lot of store in Dan Lawrence being the sort of a spin bowling option who will bat in the top six. What have you made of those two? I think Jordan Cox thoroughly impressive. was he batting at first time at number three in the test format, made his test debut only this summer.

8:31I think very impressive with the bat, came out in some difficult positions when Mohamed Abbas was really getting the ball to nip around, looked comfortable in his technique. He spoke to Owen Morgan, I think it was at Lord's, or maybe the start of this test match, and he was very sort of assured in himself, and he said the phrase that he wanted to out-bat Joru, just gives the fact that his love for the longer format is right there, and he warrants a place in the side. The other thing was his keeping, So he's always put himself as a complete package if and when required behind the stumps was impressive.

9:01Incredibly clean as well. Yes, a few did ping down the leg side. It's not easy when he hasn't done it forever. And also then being up to the stumps, the ball nipping around. So I just felt he got a great attitude to the side as well. Where he slots in up in South Africa, only time will tell. But Dan Lawrence as well. I think the only one thing that didn't get tested was how he will bowl, when he will bowl and how much he can get the ball to turn and how the batters will tackle him because he was hardly used in this series. So I think that would be the bigger question for Jorud if Dan Lawrence is required as the spinner that he is in the side for that all-round ability.

9:38But batting was good, very good moves across his stumps, very good straighter, didn't really get out in that fashion at all. And a great slipcatcher as well, sort of behind the stumps, that catch-off Sean Masood, incredible. So I think all of that, those two inductions for England in the long term, at least a start looks good. Where does Jacob Bethel slot back in then? Given that those two have impressed, given perhaps that Emilio Gay hasn't quite nailed down position at the top of the order, albeit in very difficult circumstances up against the new ball, what happens when Jacob is back and available?

10:17I would probably bring him straight back in at three, only because of that innings. Well, because he's a very good player, by the way. But you can't produce that innings at Sydney the way he did and not have a test match future and a long test match future. He's got everything that you need to be successful. So I would bring him back in. So it then ends up Cox looks vulnerable or Emilio Gaye. But I'm old school that your opener is a specialist position. They tried Dan Lawrence to open. It didn't work. You're going to Johannesburg and the Wanderers and Centurion and you're facing possibly Kehysa Rabada if he's back fit, etc.

10:53So you're going to need a proper old-fashioned opener there. So it takes me back to right on the podcast myself and Ath did earlier in the summer when we had questions in because our producer ran out of ideas. And they said if there's two cricketers from past eras, if there's a cricketer you would want back, who would it be? and Athers went Graham Swan and I went Graham Gooch. And they're still the two areas of English cricket that we are still looking for an opener. We tried Zach Crawley for all that time. Emilio Gay's made a decent start. I'm not saying he's just made a decent start. He looks like he could have a future, but we're not certain in either direction.

11:33Don't make a judgment too soon. And obviously we still lack a frontline spinner. So they're still the two areas Stephen Fleming has to be pushing the counties to say, I want an opener and I want a proper front-line spinner. I would stick with Emilio Gay this summer. Is it three half centuries? He's got one in the first innings. It's so short-term, aren't we? Because he got ducked today. Everyone goes, oh, Emilio Gay, should he open? But it's got first innings. The question really only comes up because of who's waiting to come back in. One of those players, it's not going to be Joe Root and it's not going to be Harry Brook.

12:04It's not going to be Ben Duckett. So one of those guys is going to have to make way for Jacob Bethel to get back in the team. That's why it's a talking point. Nothing against Emilio Gay. No, but the other option is obviously you then give Jordan Cox the gloves and you axe Jamie Smith. Now, I wouldn't do that because Jamie Smith has gloved it really well. For three test matches, we've got two and a half. We've been applauding how well he's done and he's got some runs. Average is 14 test matches. Yeah, exactly. If you look at the stats of wicketkeeper batters for England, I think he's second now with his batting stats.

12:34Prior to the only one better. Yeah, either side of him, one of those. So it's a cliché du jour. It's a nice problem to have, Mark. Nice petit poir. Bonneille de douche. Right, here's one for you now, Rougie. We were just about to say goodbye. It's been wonderful to have you over here this summer.

12:56So I'm going to leave you with... He's my friend. You've had plenty of difficult questions to ask or to be asked and answered in your time here. So I'm going to leave you with a tough one. If this is a reset for Pakistan, and let's say that Mike Hess and Ashley Nofke remain, you know, are long-term plans for Pakistan's term as far as captain and coach or coach and assistant coach are concerned. Who stays and who goes? Who is worth sticking with? Your mate has thrown you under the bus there. Because this is the question that's going to have to be asked, right? Who out of the 11 that has played in this game are absolutely worth sticking with?

13:37And who are the ones that might have to make way for, you know, Shaheen Shah or Freedy perhaps, or Nassim Shah, or players that are in the wings and who have the undoubted quality that weren't selected for one reason or another on this trip? How do they go about going, OK, these are the 13, 14 players that we're going to hang our hats on, and this is how we move forward, and we're not going to chop and change outside of that unless we absolutely have to? You are the new chairman of selectors. Yeah, well, I mean, she's done it before. Yeah, select your 11. He's left me the toughest question. You don't have to go for 11, but, you know.

14:09So there are obviously a few names that stand out. You stick with the Razahullahs and the Azaan of Ayes. I think from the core group as well, you stick with Saud Shaqeel. I bring back Salman Ali Agha as well into the mix. Babur's got the runs. The question will always be about captaincy. They've gone from Babur to Shan, Shan to Babur, and in the white and the red ball as well. So those are the few names that you will stick with. Mohamed Abbas, again, it's staggering to see that he's only played 33 test matches in a 13-year-old long test career. He's been missing for years on either side. And in between, it turns out, highest wickets in this year.

14:44So there's a few that you stick with. I'd like to, Shaheen Shafid has gone back into the first-class setup for Pakistan after seven years. He's put out a statement yesterday that he loves playing the red ball format. I think it's a good place to start to go back into the grind, work on the longer format. But Naseem Shah, again, those are prospects for Pakistan. They're only still 24 and 26 years old. There's no way their test cricket is done. It's about putting them in the right place and then rebuilding with those who might be the experienced one but haven't really delivered. So those are the few that you'll stick with.

15:13Farhan Youssef, I said, the under-19 captain comes back in. There's a kid called Herrera on the blocks as well who did make a test appearance. So there are names that can bring together with the core group of players and these younger lot. They will obviously, yes, Shan got runs today. 95 of them. I certainly thought that had he not got runs in this test match, that could have been a big question mark on his future. How about Shauna? Must be 36, 35, 36. So he's probably got a few more years, but he'll have to obviously really get stuck in there. So there are names. Obviously, the likes of Khuram Shiza that you might not see in the longer run, Imran Randhawa that you might not see in the longer run, Noman Ali and Sajiz as well were very specific to those extreme turners that Pakistan baked over a couple of years ago when England was there, but there is a lot that it remains as a core group, and there's a lot of good stars around Pakistan that can fit in and have a sort of experience and a younger lot with.

16:08We've asked all Tor, is there talent coming? We've asked various people. I asked Hessem, we've asked each other, we've asked you, is there talent coming through? Yesterday was such an important day for Pakistan to show there is talent coming through. What Razula did in this game was just unbelievable. I'm not talking about the stats. I'm talking about the way he played cricket. He played cricket in a Pakistan way. It was a reminder. It was a reminder of what Pakistan cricket is all about. And for me, the highlight was Arouj chatting with him at the end and seeing that beaming smile. It's not my job to entertain.

16:42I just bat. You're entertained. And that's Pakistan cricket. We play. We entertain. So I thought yesterday was just a reminder that there is talent and that's the way Pakistan should play their cricket. OK, well, that seems like as good a place to end it as any. Rooji, thank you very much. Safe travels back home. Cheers, Nass. England win the series 3-0. First time, as I said before, that they've done so against Pakistan at home and has been emphatic from England. Joe Root's start couldn't have gone better in his second incarnation as England captain, but stiffer challenges await. south africa pretoria in december will certainly be a challenge of all that england have to offer thanks for watching we'll see you soon

17:46T20 World Cup. England's captain Ben Stokes, while he is there, England have hope.