England's post-Ashes review: Rob Key talks learnings, mistakes and building bridges

0:01Yeah, gone, gone, he gets his fairytale ending.

0:05Nasser Hussain:An epic way to go to a Test Match 100. The London Spirit of First Time win is the most remarkable thing you'll probably ever see in cricket. 604 and final Test Wicket that's due a fall. It's India who win the T20 World Cup. England's captain Ben Stokes, while he is there, England have hope.

0:31Nasser Hussain:Sky Cricket Podcast is coming from Lourdes today, March 23rd, a very significant date. Happy birthday, mate. I've lost count, 58 years old being the absolutely apt description of that. Anyway, my birthday. So we thought, what better birthday present than to get Rob Key, the MD of England Cricket, on our podcast, because there's been a lot happening. The last time we spoke to Rob was in Melbourne, just before England's victory there, but a victory that was only won in five Test matches. Obviously, that Ashes finishing 4-1, the World Cup, has been completed since then. And as all that's been going on, England have been having a review into what Richard Gould today called a painful Ashes in which lots went wrong.

1:22So a good chance to chat to you, Rob, about what's been going on.

1:27Nasser Hussain:First of all, thanks for coming on, as always. Last time we spoke, Melbourne, two months on, and it seems that there is no change, essentially, no change to the management group. That's the essential outcome of this review, that you're all in a job. How come? Well, no, nice start. I think ultimately what happens in English cricket or what happens in sport, whereas my job's concerned, And you'd have to ask Richard Gould that, really. But from my point of view, the English cricket, we lose an Ashes. You sack everyone and you start again. And the pendulum swings backwards and forwards. And actually, what it's shown over time is that that's not actually been that successful to winning Ashes series, certainly overseas.

2:17And I also believe that you end up going through something like that. You imagine that for the last four years, every single thing, every moment you're awake, you're thinking about how do you try and improve English cricket? How do you try and win test matches? How do you try and win white ball series? How do you go out to Australia and win a series out there, as I'm sure both of you have tried to do? And it doesn't work. And then you end up going through something that is really tough. Now, I want to put that into context. I know there's much tougher things going on in people's lives than just cricket.

2:49but in our world it's been a really heartbreaking two three months really because it doesn't go to plan then the scrutiny comes and a lot of it fair some of it unfair and you've got to try and work out what to do but I also think that when you go through that as a player as a coach as a leader in anything you've sort of gone through a really tough learning phase and if you can learn from that in a way you could be some of the better people to learn from that and go again I also believe that that cycle wasn't the end of that's not a team at the end that's not a team full of players 30 35 36 who are all going to fall off a cliff at some point and not be playing for England actually this team is still very young in a lot of cases the bowling attack is still inexperienced It took Jimmy Anderson five years to get to where he got to or start becoming a great bowler.

3:46So I feel like there's still work to be done. I feel like we should have learned so much from what we've gone through. We should be in a better position for what we've gone through. And they're the lessons we have to take and take it forward. Before we get on to the review, let's talk about you. You said you're going to have to ask Richard Gould about your position. I watched us just sat in there and you had those slides up, areas of focus, and what you've learned, you've talked about the learnings. If I was an England fan sitting in there, I would have gone, this is your job for before the ashes, not two months after the ashes.

4:21Why are you learning now? Why weren't you doing these things? Why weren't all these things put in place? Have you been marking your own homework in the last few months? With the review, no. We've had lots, and there's parts of it for Richard Gould, parts of it myself, where we've actually taken a lot of exterior advice or listened to different people that we trust and think, you know, what's your view of what's happened? So you get a different thoughts or you get different ideas and different reasons from not just people within that inner circle. There's a difference, as I think I said to you in Melbourne, really, there's a difference between when we got to Australia, we didn't know that the things we were doing weren't going to work.

5:00They'd worked all the time. So take the preparation. We made the best of what we had there. It isn't a case that we thought, okay we'll go to New Zealand that's the best thing to do actually we thought right that's part of the schedule we'll work out a way to make the best of that situation as Richard Gould said and the same thing we didn't think every single series we've been on up until that point we'd actually won the first test match and we'd run out of steam by the end of it all so we try everything we do at that point is because we think it's right we're trying to do things that help us win a series out in Australia.

5:33You don't know if they're going to work. So then you get to this point and you've got to reflect on those things. What went well? What went badly? To which there was a few things. How do we put those right? Which has always been the case, I'd say. There's never a formula that's just right. That's the formula. You're going to win everything from that moment on. You've always got to evolve. So what would you have done differently? Looking back now, you've had time to reflect. I'm sure you've been in some difficult conversations with yourself and others what would you have done differently now looking back in the last year because an ashes doesn't just start in that first week leading up to Perth before that what would you have done differently well you look at the reasons why we ended up losing it you thought that we had a bowling attack out there that actually was inexperienced for the conditions that they went into we got to a point where in Brisbane they were at that we got to a decent score not a great score we got to a decent score and we weren't able to be in the position where our bowlers were in enough rhythm enough form to be able to go and put their best foot forward the same thing with the batters in Perth so all of those things you're trying to work out ways that the next time that happens they're in the best form players that most of our players it's unfair to say that a lot of our players don't turn up fit don't turn up robust and ready for the rigors of international cricket certainly international cricket but on a couple of occasions there were players that have been out of form for far too long and you're hoping that they're going to find form almost be all right on the night they didn't so all of those things you're going to try and put right and just the rigors of international ashes cricket it's as tough a cricket as what there ever was and that side I think for a number of those players they weren't equipped for what was coming especially when it came bad so they're the things that you're trying to put right for next time that's not easy because you can't get to a situation where you go do you know what we'll have seven games of cricket out in Australia before we come and play that's not an option you know you look forward we're trying to get to a the ECB Richard Gould they're trying to get to a position so that the next time because this has happened in every series we've played almost where the lead up especially to the big series away from home the lead up hasn't been clear you've been coming off a long English summer you're straight into New Zealand white ball they're the things the bigger picture stuff that we've got to put right for next time we're in Australia there's a champions trophy I think before it we've got to make sure that there's enough of a lead up so that all of those things where the players can get themselves in the best position to play and before we go into the

8:13Nasser Hussain:detail of what the review, the process of it and what you've come up with, from the perspective of people out there, they will find it extraordinary that there's been no accountability for the mistakes made on the ashes. How would you answer that kind of point that, you know, it's not necessarily bloodlust people want, but I think they want genuine accountability. And if there's no change to key personnel they will argue well there is no accountability and and in in part that's one of the criticisms of the the players over that over that two or three year period that you know inadequate performance doesn't lead to accountability and that's the same at the top it would seem to be yeah but i would argue that you know if accountability is purely sacking I wouldn't underestimate what we've gone through.

9:09And again, it's not, you know, there's people in much worse off situations. It's a privileged position to be in. But this has been as tough as three months, I think, I've had in my career, if not my life, really. You know, everything you work towards and it doesn't go right. And you have to face some hard truths as much as anything. so it's hard to argue that there's accountability if the only way you can see that is by sacking people but i don't believe that actually that's the only way it doesn't mean that brendan ben everything we've worked towards doesn't work and then you get criticized quite rightly as i said from from that moment on that is not easy to take so i feel like you know the account from an accountability point of view I feel like we've you know we've we've gone through our own versions of that as much as anything.

10:03Nasser Hussain:Presumably the the review it starts with Richard Gould or Thompson or the ECB board showing faith in you because you obviously play the key part in this review just talk us through that and a if there were any conversations between yourself about your position and whether you should carry on because that presumably is the starting point from which the rest of the review happens yeah you whether they had a different review which i'm assuming they probably would have done into my role whether that's a review but that certainly would have been a question for the board for richard gould for richard thompson whether i was the right person to do that you know and we spoke and i you know we spoke at length from halfway through australia onwards about what I thought was going wrong, what I thought that we needed to do, and since then how we needed to do it.

10:58And that's for them to make that decision as much as anything else. You'll have to, I can't speak for one.

11:03Nasser Hussain:Okay, so once they've decided that you're staying in your role, you then play a key role in this review. So just tell us a little bit about how long it took, who was involved who you spoke to and clearly what what the outcomes of it are uh in time i mean from probably perth onwards we started richard had a view that what we need to do that every ashes series they get to the end of it win or lose and then there's a review and whatever happens happens from perth onwards he said we've got to be learning as we go so even if it's not us it's someone else that that can be passed on to so it started from that moment on what's gone well here what have we got right what have we got to make sure we put in place for next time whether that's practice matches whether that's the the lead are the specifics what the lead up to place so hang on i'll get i'll get into that in a second so that you then go through to the point where you know you get to the end of the ashes and you've already started to have a document of things that you feel or learnings as it were as much as anything else um we then probably were aligned on the decision that it was all about whether or not you've got to think about whether or not you feel that brendan and the captain are the best people to take it for are they the people that the players still believe they're still going to listen to the thing that kills head coach is more than anything else or faster than anything else is when they lose the dressing room so you're starting to look for those keys is that something that's happening is brendan still able to try and get the best out of these players so then you look at the world cup and the sri lanka series and you think and the end of that ashes series where actually the performance improved now you can say well if you'd have played more games that might have happened but those are the the key indicators throughout that period and I felt the way they went in the World Cup it was clearly a big World Cup had we not done well there and it looked like you know whether whether it was the the early stages of the World Cup if we went out then there's a chance that we may have ended up losing the jobs both myself and Brendan but the key moment really is to work out whether or not Brendan and myself are able to get the best out of the players around them is that partnership between Harry and Brendan is that working well and all of those things did so that's the reason why I believe that Brendan's the best person to take it forward but you've clearly asked him to make some changes to the way that he approaches is his job what are those changes yeah i i think that we've had a we've had a lot of conversations about what we need to do how we need to so for instance i think we both believe that actually we've we've put a huge amount of value on loyalty and having a settled team on giving players a good run now the problem with that is we probably swing it too far so it then has there's a lack of consequence for poor performance there's a lack of consequence when people don't go on and score the runs they should or take the wickets they should and that then becomes part of that culture so we've spoken about actually we need to be more ruthless in what we're doing we need to be more ruthless in some of the selections that we've done the reason we did it was because we put a huge amount of value on having a settled team going into the ashes now we're at a new stage where it's like right okay we need these players to become proper run scorers now you still want players who can put bowlers under pressure all of that stuff but actually you've got to go out there and you've got to turn 70s into big 150s 200 match winning contributions whatever it is so there's things like that the the thing that we tried as much as anything probably at the start was to create an environment that was relaxed we had so many English players turn up playing for England it's the biggest thing they've ever done and that they add so much pressure to it so we tried to create an environment where you got away from the game where you could relax where you could actually not be thinking all the time about cricket Harry Brook's been away for all but six days this years or this winter so you're trying to create an environment that allows them the space to just get away from the game and probably it just flies too far one way we need but it doesn't mean that the flip has to become like a school teacher where you're like right you can't do this you can't do that you've got to swing it into the middle so you you know you're still ending up you're trying to create an environment where players can perform to their best but they don't get burnt out they don't start thinking I don't want to play for England we have a we have an environment or an England team where players are giving up playing in the IPL for what could be a huge amount of money to go and commit to English cricket I think that is a massive credit to this setup that Brendan McCollum has created they're the good part so you know it's trying to find that bit in the middle can I ask you about Brendan McCollum because part of being a great coach is stubbornness.

16:31Now, when we last spoke to him at the end of the Ashes, he was being stubborn. And I like that in a coach. But he didn't look like someone that was willing to change. Now, that could be emotional. After 4-1 defeat, we've all been there, emotional press conferences. He didn't look like someone that was willing to change. Is he looking to change because he firmly believes that's the right thing to do or because he's trying to keep his job and he has to change? No, I think it depends on what you mean by change. If you want Brendan McCollum to become a completely different coach or do everything in a completely different way.

17:03Of course, we don't want him to do that. You may as well employ a different coach. What you want is someone like, oh, and Brendan McCormick, as you know, is a very good player. And good players don't get to that position by not evolving, not adapting. And that's what we want him to do. And that's what, when you look at the way the team played out in Sri Lanka, I thought they did that. All this basketball stuff about only one way of playing. you look at you try and play like that out in Sri Lanka on those spinning pitches you cannot do that you look at the way that we went from the champions trophy where we were all outpaced we thought that was the way and then we went for spin you went to the likes of Liam Dawson all these people that had done well in county cricket to come and try and come up with a different style of playing a different way to adapt to those conditions and I thought they did that brilliantly I've got two more questions on McCullum.

17:54Being a leader, a big part of it is being authentic. How can you go four years, being one way, and then stroll in to the next test match and be different and be a bit tougher and be a bit more in their face and say, no, no, no, you're playing too many shots. and players will look at you and go, well, for four years, you've told me a different way. Leadership is about embodying what you say and being authentic. Is he now going to be different? That's my point. That's where you evolve it, really. I don't want him to become a different coach. I just want us to become a better side than what we've been, to evolve into a team that is.

18:34There's nothing wrong. And it's never been Brendan's case that when you go out there and you get 70 and it's like, yeah, well done. that's never been the case you know actually he's always wanted team a side that can adapt and he's got to find ways of doing that which is what we're looking to do and when you speak to him it's like right all the time so all right how do we get to this point where now we want players that are that are ruthless that are able to go out there you still want you don't want someone to completely come and play in a different style you still want players that can go out there and score runs against the best bowlers in the world not just survive because you're never going to get anywhere doing that but once they get the opportunity you want them to go and become relentless and score as many runs as possible just my final question on this subject about being authentic and it's the mixed messaging and we're not in the dressing room and one thing a coach says in public we've seen it with my coach duncan fletcher we see it with football coaches whatever is completely different from what they say in the dressing room so please take us into that dressing room for an England fan because there is mixed messaging when they play they hook with nine men back against Australia and they all get out we hear from the coach they didn't commit to it they didn't go hard enough when they're driving on the up and the batting coach says we've not spoken about driving on the up in Australia we don't feel that's dangerous Brendan McCollum says we didn't go hard enough Ollie Pope I interview at the next test match says we didn't commit to going to that shot when Pope plays that shot in Perth when Brooke plays the way he did in Perth and when Smith plays the shot he did in Sydney is the coach sitting with them and saying what were you doing is there some kind of this is not good enough yeah but these things happen they don't happen I've not always in the dressing room so you know you'd have to speak to players around him but these conversations happen in person it's not just to sit around and going right okay that's not his style he's always going to work individually in those tough conversations he's always going to have them trying to help sometimes it will be you didn't commit to that sometimes you're trying to get to a point where they can commit to whatever they're looking to do sometimes like Brendan would say you know if you're trying to play against the left arm we have this conversation with him you know he thinks dumb cricket is if the left arm seam is going across you trying to hit across the line all the time and you get out that's dumb cricket there's a big difference between that some people you need to be hard on some people you need to put an arm around them some people you need different ways to the same person if that makes sense so those conversations happen and that's where brendan works one-on-one all the time trying to help players maximize their potential.

21:27And for the most part, I think he's done it bloody well. You look, Harry Brook's got to number one in the world. Harry Brook averages, what, 55 plus in test cricket. A lot of that goes down to Brendan McCollum and the way that he's played. Now, Harry Brook has to find a way to deal with what's coming at him, like Jamie Smith does. And that might be the coaches that are around him in that environment. It might be him going back to whoever he works with at Surrey. It might be us trying to bring in consultants to try and help them do that. Those conversations happen. They just might not happen all the time in a team unit.

22:00That's rubbish. That's rubbish. That's not anyone can do that. It's how you get those issues solved in your way that's authentic to you.

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22:59Nasser Hussain:When we chatted in Melbourne, I asked you whether the team had a drinking culture and your answer was no, but we didn't know, or we didn't, you knew about the Harrybrook incident in New Zealand at that point. Would you give the same answer now if I asked you the same question? I don't think they have a drinking problem. I don't think it's fair to probably put everyone into that bracket. I think the majority of those players are unbelievably diligent and will do whatever they can to try and maximise their potential and play as well as they can for England. Like a lot of teams, there's two or three players that can be irresponsible with alcohol given that opportunity.

23:43Now, what we're trying to do, as I said earlier, is try and find that happy medium. It's not about drinking, but so they can get away from the game. Cricket is different to a lot of other sports, especially international cricket. When you are away for the entire year almost, even if you're playing at home, you're away. The stress, the scrutiny on these multi-format players is tough. So, you know, can we be better? Do we need to keep evolving? I think the game does, to be honest. And that's not a problem I'm going to be able to solve on my own. we need to be able to create opportunities and situations where these players can make the right decisions we can take away the temptation but as i said earlier it's finding that sweet spot in the middle because you go too hard on them like your kids then they rebel one way so it's trying to find that and i think for the most part this team is actually we've tried to trust them as much as we can and they've made good decisions the harry brooke wellington incident you know clearly hit us hit us hard and harry no more so than harry in particular he's not the first person he probably won't be the last either to do that but i'm hoping that will be the making of him and going back to that decision you know a lot of the stuff that i've read and seen we we've spoken about we spoke we debated all of those things.

25:07When you're in these positions, you've got to make a decision. And we believe that Harry Brook made a horrendous mistake, but he came to us. And also Harry up to that point had a pretty clean slate. He also is once the IPO, if you remember now, if you pull out of the IPL auction, you get banned for three years. So in Harry Brook's case, that could be$2 million. dollars and before any of this Wellington business came about Harry Brook had committed to English cricket he had said no no I am going to I don't want to go to the IPL I'll get banned for three years because I want to do what's best for England cricket and my England cricket career and I believe that deserves some credit and that's why we made the decision we did.

25:55If there isn't a drinking culture why have you introduced a curfew a midnight curfew i only read i can only go on what i've read that players have to inform the management if they're out after 9 p.m they can't post stuff on social media with drinks how have you got to a culture of a kent esix under 15 trip where international sports people are having curfews imposed and can't have to tell the management what time they if they're out after 9pm and things like that that's the management that that nine o 'clock one's a different thing because that's about security as much as anything else making sure that people are aware of where they are and it's not a hard and fast rule we just need to you know when you're in different countries around the world it's just you know and it happens in franchise cricket everything now where people are just inform the manager of where they are so you know your security teams can just be across everything and I was pretty clear when the when I started with the curfew that you know the curfew could go if you remember it was in the curfew could go as long as they could be shown that they could be trusted to go and do the right thing and with what happened in Wellington they didn't so we'll just take that temptation away from them

27:08Nasser Hussain:Was there a point in this review where Ben Stokes expressed any doubt about his working relationship with Brendan McCollum and their ability to work together going forward? no there's never been a moment where there's been a smash or there's been a time where where ben or brendan couldn't work together or anything like that um but clearly there's been a lot of there's been a a lot of conversations backwards and forwards between all of us really about what's the right way for us to go what's the right way what's the evolution every year We've tried to evolve somewhere and there's been nothing bigger to try and get that evolution than getting beaten in an Ashes series and proving that a few of the things you've done have come up short.

27:59And that's been the process over the last month, really, is making sure that fundamentally we're aligned on which way we want to go. And both of those, they're two of the better leaders. Leadership is about lifting up those around you. Leadership is about making sure that you can get the best out of the people in your charge. And that's what I think Ben and Brendan are the best at doing. And it doesn't matter if there's slight disagreements along the way. And everyone's at a slightly different part of, you know, Brendan's probably, you know, Ben's probably slightly more conservative than Brendan.

28:32You know, that's fine. It doesn't matter if you don't agree. In fact, you don't want people to agree all the time. So I don't mind that at all, as long as fundamentally you're pretty clear on what style of cricketer that you want. And you want players that can still be aggressive, still play the best bowlers in the world, but actually are ruthless in how they go about it and are smart in the decisions they make.

28:57Nasser Hussain:I asked you about the Stokes-McCollum that way, Stokes-McCollum. McCollum's just had a month with Harry Brook where they seem to gel pretty well. Was there any sense coming the other way that Brendan thought, especially given Ben Stokes' form in the Ashes, that maybe there are question marks there as well? No, that partnership has always been. I think it's been one of the better partnerships in English cricket, really. And I think both of those are excited, probably like a lot of great players where they just think there's something to do. This is something to put right. It's something to try and put right what went wrong.

29:37and go on and take English cricket forward. And I think almost their resilience to that, or they've got the word for it, but they're even more desperate now to do that.

29:48Nasser Hussain:How many matches Ben Stokes is going to play for Durham this year? Because a big part of this conversation has been around the relationship between the England team and the county game, and a perception, you can tell us whether you feel it's an unfair perception or not, that the two are, there's a big disconnect between the elite and the kind of network that provides players for the elite. Well, Ben, when he's fully fit, Ben's keen to play for Durham this year. We'll work out exactly how much that is, as and when we know how much cricket he can play, along with a number of our players. Probably the only ones that won't are a bit more the multi-format guys that Harry Brook, who's been away for a hell of a long time, Joe Root, people like that, it's that balance of trying to make sure they're playing enough, but they're still going to be all right in September.

30:46And then we go to Pakistan, then Australia, all of that. On the county game, I think that that's where we get our talent from. I actually think that English cricket produces some serious talent and it's part of our job along with the county game to make sure that can be as good a cricketer as it possibly can. I think over the last couple of years, we put a real premium on having a settled team, trying to get to that Ashes, because what happens is the Ashes might be in 27, but actually it's 11-12 test matches, and probably two of those are in Bangladesh, so that's completely, so it's not that much cricket that you've got to get into your players from there, and we wanted to go to Australia with a really settled team.

31:34So when we were sitting here this time last year, it was about, right, we know our team, we know which way we're going to go. Let's make sure that they're ready to be okay for Australia and onwards, the India series, White Bulls and so on. Now, as we sit here, there's opportunity again for people, whether it's with the ball, with the bat, to go out there and show them.

31:55Nasser Hussain:Is that opportunity for everyone? could the likes of Dom Sibley, Rory Burns, Haseeb, Hamid, who are very different style players that you've looked for and have had chances at the top level. Is there a line through names like that? Or is it a case now with seven county matches before the first test match that everybody has a chance to show what they're made of? Everybody has a chance, no question. but our decision has to be on who do we think can play against Matt Henry and do that. And that's always been the case. You know, whether you were captain, you were captain, it's not always been the thing where you've taken just the top run scorer and the averages has been the one to come and play.

32:39That's been happening. You know, a Jacob Bethel comes through, people like that. Then you see the talent and you want to get them in there. The spin is a tough thing because we'll play at the start. There's not lots of opportunity for spinners in the English game, certainly early season in the championship. So that's tough. That's where we've got to try and bridge the gap. But I never think it's right for us to cross anyone out, really. And I think all those players you've named, whether it's Sibley, Burns, Hamid, they look better players now than what they did when they played for England last, which was before our time.

33:15you know so if they if if we feel that they can go and do it against the best bowlers on in the world then everyone's got a chance of playing but you can only pick 11 though but perception is important rob and the perception is that you have moved completely away from county cricket you don't believe your management don't believe in county cricket i'm just going to give you some quotes paul farbrace who you know well the disconnect is as bad as i've known it in my time in county cricket and Favre's has been in county cricket and on the other side of the fence for a very long time we know McCollum is not bothered about county cricket he's got no interest Gareth Batty the path between county cricket and the test team is misted over your mate Steve Harmison England management looked down on county cricket like it's something on the bottom of their issue there is a perception that you think that county cricket is not the right way the way county cricket has been played is not the right way to prepare international cricketers is that right or wrong and do you have to build bridges no well clearly when you look at that from people in the county game you do have to build bridges if that's what people think because as you say that if that's the perception then they're the things that we need to do i've always tried in this job to actually be not a person that moans about county cricket that sits there blaming county cricket when we lose the ashes i'm not sitting here blaming county cricket and stuff like that when they do reviews the game now when i took this job on the ecb was very much dictating how the game should be played in this country or what happens in county cricket now there's been a shift where it's for the county game to decide on the decisions that get made for it um as far as brendan's concerned that's not true either about he has no care but brendan now job does the job for 12 months of the year he's now full-time across both formats and i know you think that that's too much of a job so the trade in that really is that when he's not in series when he's not at home or sorry when he's not away on tour which is a hell of a lot of cricket now then i want him to get away from it that i want him to just be able to down tools and just not have to worry about anything else and all of our system the whole selection process that we have which is quite vast i did it for the written journalists today from the scouting system to the um to the line selection to the main team selection to what we're going to bring in is a county what we're going to call the county insight group now i know that you can call all these things different names and it sounds a bit but that's going to be made up of hopefully we're going to run a process for it but two coaches or two preferably two coaches from the first division two coaches from the second division so they can input into our selection and then when you're playing as a county player trying to get in the england team you know when people are watching you you know that people are there we cover every single game and we pick people from the county game so i don't agree with everything that people say there because we're trying bloody hard to make sure that that's not the case but we need

36:31Nasser Hussain:to do it better you've got a summer coming up um new zealand are here india are here for white ball cricket shirlanga are here for white ball cricket pakistan for test cricket busy international summer obviously for people who are buying their tickets right now and thinking of coming to games Just, in essence, try and lay out, because clearly what's not happened is that there's been upheaval, but from what you've said, Richard Gould said, there's going to be tweaks and adjustments and subtle changes. Try and lay out to people thinking of buying their tickets now how your setup will look different this summer to what we've seen in the past couple of years.

37:17Nasser Hussain:in terms of approach in terms of the management and not i don't mean in terms of who's going to open the batting but i mean is are we going to see more rigor are we going to see more attention to detail how is it going to be different because you can't go through a review and just say you know there is going to be absolutely no change but a lot of these things that you're not going to see them necessarily when you turn up here they're going to have been done before so all whether it's the preparation, whether it's the people we try and bring in to enhance the players that we've got, the system that we try and put in place, whether it's Troy Cooley, who I believe is the best bowling coach in the world.