In short
Sky Cricket Podcast discusses early County Championship conditions and scheduling, Somerset’s title credentials, ECB substitute rules, Edgbaston redevelopment, and how IPL participation affects red-ball development. The episode then focuses on Warwickshire batter Jacob Bethell’s time with RCB in the IPL and his England ambitions (especially batting at No. 3).
Guest backgrounds
Jacob Bethell is a Warwickshire player currently in Bengaluru with RCB (Royal Challengers Bengaluru). He has played for England, including a Test hundred at Sydney, and grew up in Barbados with cricket on the beach and at the Franklin Stevenson academy.
Key claims
Somerset look like a well-run “model county” producing homegrown talent; substitute rules should have higher injury thresholds; playing first-class cricket under the 100 should be increased; Bethell should stay at No. 3 rather than open.
Notable examples
Somerset’s academy/financial model; Taunton/Old Trafford weather effects; Notts-Somerset substitute timing; Bethell’s Sydney Test hundred and other hundreds (Utilita Bowl, Mumbai) plus a T20 hundred.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOCounty Championship Discussions
0:48 to 2:16
Discussion on the recent county championship matches, weather, and player performances.
“so we're going to chat to him, even though he's not been playing in the IPL.”
Somerset's Strong Start to the Season
2:16 to 4:48
Insight into Somerset's current form and player development strategies.
“You know, some good cricket, some less good cricket, slow pitches hide.”
Challenges of Opening the Batting
4:48 to 7:12
Exploration of the complexities surrounding opening the batting for England and county teams.
“Why do you think they do things so well down there?”
Emerging Players in County Cricket
7:12 to 10:00
Discussion about promising young bowlers in county cricket and their potential.
“That's the other thing we have to factor in with Somerset is how many players, you know, once you start losing players to England, if they start losing players to England.”
Scheduling Issues in County Cricket
10:00 to 12:00
Examination of the scheduling conflicts in county cricket, particularly with The Hundred.
“So they're the bowlers who've impressed and of course Jimmy Anderson in Division 2, he's leading the way with a bag full of wickets and Lancashire going well at the top there.”
Substitutions and Game Regulations
12:00 to 14:01
Debate on the regulations surrounding player substitutions and their impact on the game.
“This last three weeks, I'll take the mic about the weather or whatever, but I've enjoyed it.”
Substitutes in Cricket: Rules and Opinions
14:01 to 18:04
Explore the evolving rules about player substitutes in cricket and the ongoing debates around them.
“You can only call on a sub by the end of the second day.”
Assessment of Edgbaston Ground
18:05 to 19:09
Discussion on the current state of Edgbaston ground and its reputation in county cricket.
“I read you, you made it sound like a car park.”
Life on the RCB Bench
20:38 to 22:24
Jacob Bethell shares experiences of being on the IPL bench and preparing for his chance.
“Have you been following your side Warwickshire I mean that close win against Mighty Essex the other day have you just kept one eye on your boys?”
Coaching Styles and Influences
22:25 to 25:59
Explore the differences in coaching styles between India and England and how they impact players.
“Absolutely, you're bang on Tell us about life at RCB then I mean, Andy Flower, head coach Working with him, what kind of experience is that for you?”
Show all 21 chapters
Cricket Development from Childhood
26:00 to 28:00
Jacob Bethell discusses his cricket upbringing in Barbados and influences on his style.
“And also, do you have a kind of childhood coach that you still check in with, that knows your game inside out, that you grew up learning alongside and then somebody that you still use?”
Early Cricket Development in Barbados
28:00 to 29:16
Learn about Jacob Bethell's natural cricket upbringing in Barbados, influenced by family.
“But, you know, the circumstances of kind of moving around and stuff is pretty hard to have that happen.”
Nervous Family Experiences
29:16 to 30:52
Jacob shares insights about his family's nervousness when watching him play cricket.
“You know, there's, you obviously know my dad pretty well.”
Reflections on Performance and Growth
30:52 to 34:10
Jacob discusses his journey in cricket, including ups and downs and learning experiences.
“What are mum and dad like as watchers, really?”
The Balance of Playing and Training
34:10 to 39:13
A conversation on the importance of game time versus training in Jacob's development.
“I know cricketers don't stand still at any stage, but the big talk when you were picked for England is someone with not a single hundred in professional cricket.”
Emerging Young Talent in Cricket
39:13 to 42:00
Jacob talks about the new generation of Indian cricketers and the competitive landscape.
“ball practice then because i saw some footage from one of those phones in the crowd of you were one of the last to leave nets i think it was yesterday or the day before you were doing some reverse sweeps into a neck.”
IPL Insights and Hitting Styles
42:00 to 43:50
Discussion on IPL batting styles, player performances, and hitting techniques.
“Are you out and you try and switch off in between games?”
The Appeal of Test Cricket
43:50 to 46:20
Jacob shares his thoughts on the satisfaction of playing test cricket versus shorter formats.
“And finally, from me, you know, I've heard your dad say many times that it's quite difficult when you ask a young cricketer about their preferred formats, because obviously you'll want to do well across formats.”
Position Preferences and Upcoming Matches
46:20 to 48:30
Jacob discusses his preferred batting position and upcoming RCB matches.
“Me and Af were discussing earlier about James Rue and how England get him into the lineup.”
Reflections on Jacob Bethell's Potential
48:30 to 52:10
Experts discuss Jacob's cricketing journey, potential, and the importance of resilience.
“And the chef at one of them is a great guy.”
Debate on Batting Order and Selection
52:10 to 55:00
Discussion on the debate of Jacob's batting position and selection decisions in England.
“I think it's a nonsense what people are talking about.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:01Ath:Yeah, gone! Gone! He gets his fairytale ending! An epic way to go to a Test Match 100.
0:09Nas:The London Spirit of First Time win is the most remarkable thing you'll probably ever see in cricket. 604 and final Test wicket that's due at all. It's ended when the T20 World Cup.
0:23Ath:England's captain Ben Stokes, while he is there, England have hope.
0:34Ath:Well, after a week's break, the Sky Cricket Podcast returns. It's the third week of April. We've already had three rounds of championship cricket, so plenty to talk about on that front. We've got Jacob Bethel as our guest today as well, so we're going to chat to him, even though he's not been playing in the IPL. We're going to get his thoughts on that competition and how he's going. Ness, how are you?
0:56Nas:I'm good, Ath. I'm enjoying the weather, to be honest. It hasn't rained in Chelmsford for like a month or whatever. I put some grass seed down three weeks ago. I need a little bit of rain, but I'm enjoying this. Put some grass seed down. Yeah, I've been away all winter, so I've had to fire off the gardener and actually do some gardening. So I put some grass seed down, and we need some rain in Chelmsford. But loving the weather, loving the county championship. We've had, what, three rounds? Essex didn't get over the line against Warwickshire the other day. I was watching that. What have you made of the county championship?
1:31Nas:I mean, generally recently, the weather has been good and the myth that it nibbles around in April. Actually, the pitches have been good, if not obviously slow at this time of year.
1:43Ath:Well, you say the weather's been good. It's been dry for the most part. I mean, it's been totally inhospitable for cricket, I have to say. I've been to Taunton, Hove and Birmingham in the first three games and I really feel for the spectators who are sat there in freezing, frigid conditions and, you know, totally inhospitable for cricket. I mean, the players get on with it manfully, great admiration for the way they crack on. But as you say, it's impossible to get any pace in the pitches at this time of year. So it means the cricket is indifferent. You know, some good cricket, some less good cricket, slow pitches hide.
2:22Nas:I sense, I sense you're not happy with the schedule.
2:26Ath:I sense... Well, we're going to get on to that. But could it be Somerset's year? I mean, it's very early days. Only three games in. Some have only played two. But Somerset are leading the charge. There's been a lot of love for Somerset, actually. I was there on the first day of the season. I wrote a piece and I noticed that others have written very glowingly about Somerset, who are really, at the moment, a model county club, it seems. They produce lots of their own players. They're blessed with a kind of private school network around Toms and but produce lots of their players through the academy.
3:03Ath:A well-run club financially with little debt, perfect size ground, well located and doing a lot of things right.
3:11Nas:100 % agree. And actually, I was asked the other day, who would you like to win the county championship this season? And without hesitation, I would love some. I think it's their fern. I think they deserve it. I think you're right. They produce and always have produced their homegrown players. So they do things well down there and they are flying at the moment. They're well led. A combination of future stars like Rue, the Rue brothers. But, you know, Abel's playing well for them as well. The one thing I always worry, and maybe a reason Lancashire haven't won it. One thing is the weather. If you're playing in September and the southwest and the west, and always favoured us in Essex.
3:53Nas:I used to be a rain watcher and you could see the rain coming in from the west. So all the games out west, Old Trafford, Taunton rained off. And by the time it got to Chelmsford, we'd still be playing and it would have been fizzled away. And also the new pitch regulations, actually, because recent history, Taunton have made their pitches turn. And I have no problems with that at all. And, you know, the point we were making last week about now you get nought points if it's deemed, what was the exact terminology, a substandard or below average pitch. So I hope that doesn't hit them. Because they've had some really, it may be my imagination, but some really close games, haven't they?
4:37Nas:I mean, there was that one last year where the camera was shaking as Leach got the final wicket and everyone was celebrating. So I really hope it's the year. What did you sense down there when you went? You were very glowing about Somerset. Why do you think they do things so well down there? And do you think, I mean, that the whole debate of 100 franchise and do you think they deserve a bit more franchise cricket down there? Are they not bothered?
5:05Ath:Well, I chatted to Jamie Cox, who was a very sensible and able chief executive down there, and he said they're basically going to get themselves 100 ready, I think is the term, in case that competition expands. So obviously they've got an amount of money that's sitting there that's their share as a non-host ground of the 100 money. But there are some guardrails around that. You can't just fritter it away on salaries and players. You can pay off debt, but they've got very little debt. They've used a little bit, I think, to pay off some bad debt, but they've got very little debt now. And then you can use it for things that might bring in growth and revenue.
5:49Ath:So there's one end of the stand, the opposite end from where the press area is now that is ripe for redevelopment. And that will give them both a little bit more hospitality, but a bit more seating. But whether that competition expands, who knows? It's not exactly in the current investors' interest to dilute their share. So we shall see. James Roo, he is in the news, getting lots of runs, playing really well. So the middle order is locked up, isn't it? It's Bethel Brook Stokes. You're not going to get in the middle order. So opening, I think there's going to be a vacancy there because I don't see Zach Crawley getting picked.
6:34Ath:But if you're batting in the middle order for your county, obviously he's keeping as well. Can you open the batting for England? That's really the question. And whether this balance between what the county wants and needs for its own success and what England maybe want and need and would like for their development is always a tricky balance.
6:54Nas:It is. Your mate and our mate, Steve James, wrote about it, someone who knows a bit about opening the batting, and he said James Drew should be knocking on the door at Somerset and asking them to open the batting. But he's done so well at four, then they could just turn to him and say, we'll do what's best for us, to be honest. But they will also look at that. That's the other thing we have to factor in with Somerset is how many players, you know, once you start losing players to England, if they start losing players to England. So I do think opening is a specialist position. Three to open, I'm not that fussed about.
7:31Nas:Butcher used to do it a bit. Butcher, Mark Butcher was three open. Gaffer used to do it. You used to do it, didn't you? And then you opened for Lancashire and everything that followed from that. But middle order, they tried it with Dan Lawrence. It didn't really work out. But I just think he's getting so many runs. And you just watch him back and some of the positions and how late he plays the ball. It's just getting to that stage where you have to find a way of picking him. I just don't. Bethel. I mean, Bethel's one that came in about at three and has never done it before in first-class cricket.
8:06Nas:So could you move? We're going to have Jacob on in a minute. We'll ask him. but could you move him up to open up Rue at three? The problem is obviously Root doesn't want to move from four. So it is an interesting question how they get – would you definitely pick Root?
8:22Ath:Well, I think you've got to be bound in the top three for your county to open for England. So I wouldn't be shoving him from the middle order if that's where he's staying. As you say, they did it with Dan Lawrence. It wasn't a success, but you felt they were just keeping the seat warm there. so no I think you've got to be got to be batting in the top three ideally for him he would be batting in the top three and maybe that will come to pass but that's if you're a young kid looking at where you're going to get in the England side and everybody has ambitions and wants to play at the highest level there's only one place at the moment isn't there and that's at the top of the order
9:07Nas:Who else has caught your IF in county cricket?
9:10Ath:Well, Sonny Baker looks good, bowling quick and looks lively and getting wickets. Henry Crocombe at Sussex, I think he's an improving young fast bowler. Sam Cook, I watched Sam Cook last Friday at Edgbaston. He didn't actually get wickets that day. Jamie Porter got wickets, Sam Cook got him in the second innings. but I do think he is a good bowler and shouldn't just be kind of mentally discarded because of that one test match where he didn't bowl at his best if they're looking for a line bowler and an English style bowler. I mean, he's got competition. Ollie Robinson and Matt Fisher, I suppose, is his competition.
9:54Ath:but I think Sam Cook's a good bowler, 28, should be in his prime yet for two or three years and knocking on the door with wickets. So they're the bowlers who've impressed and of course Jimmy Anderson in Division 2, he's leading the way with a bag full of wickets and Lancashire going well at the top there. Scheduling, can I ask you about scheduling? I mean, you know, I made the point at the start of this conversation. You basically, by the end of April, teams may have played four games. Not everybody will have played four games, but that's essentially, you know, almost a third of your first-class season done in conditions where, you know, they're not ideal for first-class cricket.
10:43Ath:I've long said this. I do think the counties should be playing some first-class cricket under the 100. You kind of have to park the 100. It's a separate competition and you have to ask what is best for the 18 counties in terms of scheduling. I know obviously lots of counties will lose players and the standard may dip. But for spectators as well, just to have some first-class cricket in sunny, warm conditions would be nice. I think Somerset, the men's team, have got about four days cricket at Taunton in August, summer holidays. It's bonkers to me. So play a bit of first-class cricket at that time.
11:22Nas:Everyone wants their piece of the pie. I mean, it's not just county players, but England players. And the 100 seems to take preference over everything. So again, we're going to have Jacob Bethel on. Jacob will be playing and captaining the Phoenix. And then if they get through to the final, literally two days later, there's a test series starting against Pakistan. It's written in the contract that England players must play. So you're going to lose England players to the 100, obviously. then you could lose that next level of high-quality white ball players, which England have quite a few, to be honest.
11:54Nas:So your county championship will be diminished. But I do like the story developing. This last three weeks, I'll take the mic about the weather or whatever, but I've enjoyed it. It's a story developing already about sides. And we're talking about Rue, and you go to see if Rue's getting some more runs. There's a massive gap, and the story goes, and overseas players come and go. players get injured and you're like you get to september and you go okay who's who's top who's playing where who's this is a different looking side so i've enjoyed the fact that we've had um three games in three weeks for some not all um there's already a story developing there so um the other thing the story developing and you've written on it substitutes i mean could the ecb have not seen that if you have such a lax regulation on substitutes that counties and captains will just play the system surely this was the most obvious outcome yeah i mean there
12:56Ath:are two aspects to this one is the change for life events you know births deaths severe family illnesses you know the example of blair tickner i don't know whether it was last year or the year before when he found out his wife was seriously ill on the morning of a game, not allowed to substitute. I'm totally in favor of subs for significant, what they call significant life events. But subs for injuries, I'm basically not in favor of it as a principle because the game is moving away more and more from 11 versus 11, whether it's the impact rule in the IPL, whether it's subs, whatever it is, the game is veering away from 11 v 11.
13:36Ath:And I think the game is about 11 v 11 and there are balances to be made in terms of your selection and indeed the way the stamina and resilience you need to get through a first class game, whether it's a four day game or whatever. So fundamentally, I'm not in favor of it in principle, but if you're going to do it, then, you know, the guardrails that Australia have in place seem to me to be sensible. They have a 12-day break after a game. England ECB reduced that to eight. You can only call on a sub by the end of the second day. ECB have allowed a sub at any stage. So you had the game, Notts-Somerset, was it, where Notts were allowed.
14:20Ath:That's substitute, Lyndon James, on the fourth day. And in Australia, you're only allowed one sub per team, per game. And it's a free for all here. So, you know, you can have as many subs as you like. So we've made the kind of the threshold much lower. And as I say, I'm not in favor of it as a principle. But if you're going to have it, you've got to have the threshold, the threshold as high as possible so that there's not just a, you know, a constant coming and going to and throwing of players within games.
14:56Nas:I agree completely. I agreed. I thought that. I said it actually last year because we had the two high-profile incidents in that India series of Rishabh Pant, you know, limping down the stairs, having been hit on the foot and the busted foot at where was that Old Trafford. And then Chris Wokes with a sling coming down the stairs at the Oval. And the debate started then. Why, as in football, if you have an obvious injury, why wouldn't you just have a substitute? Just substitute Wokes or Rishabh. but you just know as a captain, as a coach, as a setup, you just know you'll push things. Any law change, any plane regulation change, you will just push things to the absolute limits because you're trying to win the game.
15:36Nas:And then it's like for like, what is like for like. Ollie Stone was too quick. You can't have him. He's too quick, but you can have a left armor. So you end up sort of, I mean, you're trying to simplify the game for people and then you're having Will Smead travel from one part of the country to the next. All that will happen is that Will Smead will end up playing less cricket. I know he's inside now, but you'd have to have certain players with the squad all the time just in case there's an injury. Are they tightening up? I've read they're tightening up on it.
16:06Ath:Surely they're not. Well, I mean, it's a year's experiment whether they'll tighten up after the first kind of tranche of championship cricket. We'll wait and see. But the Smead thing was a case in point, really. Tom Kola-Cadmore injured his thumb, bruised thumb. So they had Archie Vaughan in the squad, but didn't use him as an opening replacement. So Will Smead, who was getting a boatload, runs a double hundred and a hundred against the students in Abergavenny. He was called up, but he didn't get there in time to open. So he batted at eight. And then when there was another substitute required in the game, Archie Vaughan went to open.
16:45Ath:So the man they didn't consider the replacement opener initially ended up opening in the second inning. So that seems to me to be, you know, make a mockery of things. So, I mean, you know, people make the perfectly reasonable point that that's why you experiment, that businesses experiment all the time. You work out what's right, what's wrong, and you make adjustments. But, of course, it is the premier competition. So, you know, if you're going to experiment, try and, you know, try and make sure that the experiment is reasonable from the outset. And it wasn't hard to foresee, for example, if a county has got a break, a bye in the next round of games, that eight day exclusion period then doesn't count.
17:35Ath:Because, you know, if you've got a bye, that player then is still available for the next round of games. So I'm sure there has to be some tightening up of the regulation.
17:45Nas:Now, I've been reading you this month while waiting for me grass seed to grow. I don't know which has been duller, to be honest, reading you or watching grow. But you've gone Taunton, Somerset, wonderful ground, wonderful people, wonderful place. You've gone Sussex, Hove, wonderful ground, wonderful people, wonderful place. So I read you again the other day and you have upset the Edgbaston members. What is wrong with Edgbaston? I read you, you made it sound like a car park. You said it's the worst ground in county cricket. I mean, it's obviously a difficult place to get a test double hundred. But apart from that, what is wrong with Edgebaston?
18:23Ath:Well, my lawyers will be on to you for a star for completely misrepresenting what I said. I just said it's, you know, it was looking a little unlovely on the day I was there. It was, I mean, you know, no ground looks particularly nice when it's slate grey skies and a bit of drizzle and mizzle. but Edgebaston's part of their hundred money they are redeveloping the side of the ground to the left of the press box opposite the Hollies so that's all
18:50Nas:there's a massive crane there yes I saw that
18:52Ath:giant crane above the workmen at it and you can see right through to Birmingham so splendid view from the press box at Edgebaston anyway it was a good day's cricket actually that I saw and the pitch had a good balance between bat and ball It's been difficult to afford results at Edgbaston in recent years. But that looked to be a terrific game of cricket over the course of the four days and brings us seamlessly, I don't know how we do it on this podcast, but seamlessly to one of Warwickshire's finest and Barbados' finest. To one of Warwickshire's finest, Jacob Bethel.
19:45Nas:Miss the post-match analysis of the big games on Sky Sports? Then check out the Sky Sports Premier League podcast. After every live game, top pundits like Roy Keane, Jamie Carragher and Micah Richards chat about the big talking points and we hear what the managers and players have to say as well. That is the Sky Sports Premier League podcast, available wherever you listen to your podcasts.
20:20Ath:jenker bethel welcome to the sky cricket podcast is this your first appearance on our pod i don't think we've had you on before have we yeah thank you guys uh yeah first appearance um done a couple of things with you guys away from this but yeah first one on the podcast so happy to be here and where are you you're in Bengaluru presumably you've been warming your backside on the IPL bench on the RCB bench we haven't seen you in action how are you filling your time um to be honest it's pretty pretty chaotic um over here you know they yeah I've not I've not been playing but it's still plenty of of time to you know there's training pretty much every day and you know the beauty of being you know next batter in line is you get just as much time in the nets as everyone else so I've been keeping myself busy with trying to get better and ready for when the opportunity might come we don't know when that will be obviously the team's going pretty well so yeah.
Read the full transcript
21:20Nas:Have you been following your side Warwickshire I mean that close win against Mighty Essex the other day have you just kept one eye on your boys? 100 % well I'd obviously Jordan Cox is over here with RCB as well. So, so he spent most of that game actually posted up in his room, you know, going back and forth as the game kind of ebbed and flows. I was giving it the get in and then he was going, come on. And then that final day, he went awfully quiet. So yeah, shared a couple of messages with the boys back in the room. Would you say Edgebaston's a nice ground, Jacob, because Michael Atherton has been absolutely, I can't use the word has been nailing it in his Times article saying it's the worst ground in England I think it's a pretty nice ground
22:06Ath:don't listen to him Jacob he's exaggerating the worst ground in England I wouldn't say that, I love it yeah what's that about? it wasn't quite looking at his best when I was there well that's probably because it's got half the stand missing because they're building a hotel Absolutely, you're bang on Tell us about life at RCB then I mean, Andy Flower, head coach Working with him, what kind of experience is that for you? It's great, I've loved every minute of both the years I've been involved Andy's pretty relentless with how he prepares for everything you know that it feels like there's no stern there's no stone unturned um and yeah it's just cool to watch watch someone like that um go about you know how to prepare a team for each game reset after a loss you know keep everyone hungry after a win it's it's pretty cool um and yeah it's been an overall good experience with being around the setup but you know the the overarching feeling And there's, you know, just kind of hunger to, you know, actually get over the other side of the boundary.
23:26As much as it is, it's cool to be exposed to, you know, everything India has to offer, both with cricket and then, you know, the chaos that comes around it. But, yeah, it's been great to be around.
23:39Nas:Can I ask you about another one of the coaches, our mate Dinesh Kartik? I saw a nice bit of footage on social the other day with him with Phil Salt and Phil talking to him about how much DK cared about the player. DK seems to have a real empathy. I mean, just retired. He, one of his many retirements, but he just sort of seems to remember what it's like being a player and the struggles a player goes through. Is that right? What do you make of DK the coach? Yeah, DK is great. I think it's a very different way of coaching, I've realized, over here. It's hands-on and a lot of information all the time.
24:22That's the way that Indian players grow up, being coached, fed a lot of information. I think coming from England or the West, it's just about trying to filter that as much as possible. because the way of coaching in England isn't as hands-on and telling you everything and stuff like that. So I think there's a happy medium to find. But I love DK. He gives great insight. And because he actually is so involved, he helps you spot patterns in someone's bowling or just little tweaks and plans in the middle of a net depending on the wicket and stuff like that. And then, you know, when I come up against that in the future, I can remember things that he said.
25:15But yeah, I really like working with him. And, you know, he's obviously still, like you said, got that. He's not too much pressure on because he knows how hard it is as a player. And, you know, when the pressures of actually having to go out there and play, you can't. you're always not thinking as clearly as you would be from a lens of a coach where there's no no real pressure on performance so yeah he's got that nice medium which is which is really good
25:42Ath:you're talking there about an interesting difference in approach from from coaches maybe the more relaxed hands-off way of doing it with England and under Brandon McCollum and the more hands-on aspect with RCB and in India, which I mean, as a young player, how do you balance those? Which do you prefer? How do you balance those approaches? And also, do you have a kind of childhood coach that you still check in with, that knows your game inside out, that you grew up learning alongside and then somebody that you still use? um yeah well i wasn't really relating it to you know the england environment in general i was kind of saying just everything i've experienced growing up and coming through the pathway within england compared to them being exposed to over here um and i i don't really have a preference to be honest i'd i like um input but i also feel that if you can't coach yourself you're going to be struggling with the way that the game is going because you're going to be in so many different environments under different people and you know different personnel creates different opinions and I firmly believe that you know I'm my best coach at times you know obviously at points you need someone else to you know come and have a look and just spot something that you might not be feeling um but yeah I haven't really had like a personal batting coach ever um the someone that I've done probably my most work with from the ages of 14 to 20 was Ian Westwood at Warwickshire um he he's probably the biggest in terms of you know especially him being a left And they're putting together a game plan and, you know, just teaching me that kind of stuff.
27:47But we don't stay in touch that much in terms of actual batting. But, yeah, it's something that, yeah, I would like to actually have a personal batting coach that I had from like when I was 11. But, you know, the circumstances of kind of moving around and stuff is pretty hard to have that happen.
28:09Nas:are you not going to give Atherton any credit here because every time you get in those hundreds whether it be the 50 over 100 the test 100 the t20 100 i'm in the comb box with af and af is saying i taught him that acra beach josh when we were playing beach cricket on acra beach i taught him that square cut he's taken all the credit for your cricket over the last few years yeah
28:32Ath:do not listen to this i'm sure he is i'm sure he is just on i mean obviously i've seen you around um acro beach and barbados for a long time know you know your mom and dad pretty well but in that upbringing was it a very natural style of upbringing in terms of your cricket learning you know just by you know the fact that you know you've got a beach on your doorstep um good weather all year round, you know, a very kind of outdoorsy bat ball type of existence. And so was it just a very natural development for you in those very younger early days? Yeah, definitely. You know, there's, you obviously know my dad pretty well.
29:21He played a lot of cricket. And then going back further to my granddad. So the cricket was in my family. And, you know, the kind of climate and surroundings of Barbados made it pretty easy to just go and play cricket 24-7 you know I think I had a bat and a ball in my hand since I was since I was able to walk and and then it kind of progresses through that most weekends or you know days after school that we'd be down on the beach just me and my dad throwing a ball diving around catching it and I actually think that's that's why I've got kind of the I'm comfortable with boundary fielding and diving to stop runs and and all that kind of stuff because i just spent you know my really younger years doing that and it's kind of it's so hard to teach someone that that's 20 that doesn't have the the kind of ability from from when they were younger um but yeah in terms of other aspects of the game definitely like you know just buying and bowling on the beach or down to i was at wonders to start and then franklin stevenson you know that when i moved to franklin stevenson academy i'd get I dropped off there at about nine o 'clock in the morning and come home at seven, eight at night after, you know, batting in the nets.
30:36And then when it got dark, we try and hit each other as hard as possible with a tape ball. And that's I got pretty comfortable with playing the short ball from that off 10 yards. So, yeah, I think it was just kind of learning by doing, which is really cool.
30:52Nas:What are mum and dad like as watchers, really? I mean, my dad was a very nervous watcher. I am a very nervous watcher of my lad. I don't know what AF is like with Josh, but those great scenes.
31:03Ath:At the moment, I'm extremely nervous.
31:07Nas:And he runs. Those great scenes at Sydney when you were just about to get to 100 and mum and dad were in the crowd. Are they pretty relaxed and chilled or are they incredibly nervous? I think they've become less nervous. They used to be very nervous. you know I remember playing like under 14s games under 15s games and I think actually a lot of the nerves came from my granddad who he sadly passed away a couple of years ago but he was the most like he was the most tense one my dad would be the one calming him down and then my mum would be the one calming down my dad so now I think it's kind of he's taken over my granddad's role so he's actually become become a bit more nervous I remember seeing when I'm watching back the highlights from sydney like i don't remember what i was on but dad just giving it the old
32:00Ath:i mean they were i think they were kind of square to the wicket weren't they yeah yeah they were in the wards and got you 100 did you know exactly where they were yeah i could see him it was weird actually because you know the the ground's big and it was full but they were front row i could see my mom dad sister and um brother-in-law all just sat in the floor and i was like probably had one of his horrendous shirts on so he was like yeah it was like it was glaring off the sun i was like every time i couldn't look over there too often i know i was going to say they're obviously um loving it because they are in australia and i don't know whether they made it to the world cup in india but i've seen them you know they're in in england last summer as well it looks like it's going to be a a nice kind of entry into semi-retirement for them traveling around the world watching you hopefully yeah yeah my dad loves it um well my mom as well but I think my dad more it's but he came over here um to uh for the a couple of games last year and you know after a couple of drinks after a game he he was talking us through how to bat you know he was telling me me salty and td how to how to play soon on the rind and we're like yeah dad come on and the boys were loving the boys were loving it but we're like the game's gone so far since you're playing he's like soon on the rind two steps down the wicket going i'm like you don't know he spins it both ways he's like ah man no but yeah he loves it In Sydney as well, they started off in where they were sat and then I managed to get the 100.
33:45I was going to warm up the next day to try and get us to a target and I just see him down on the field doing an interview. I'm like, when did this happen? Then all of a sudden he was up in the chairman's box. I was like, well, you've upgraded a little bit here. But yeah, he loves it.
34:04Nas:What about yourself? I mean, you said you were watching highlights of that Sydney test match. How pleased are you? I know cricketers don't stand still at any stage, but the big talk when you were picked for England is someone with not a single hundred in professional cricket. And since then, you got a hundred at the Utilita Bowl. You got a hundred at two incredible venues at Sydney and Mumbai and a T20 hundred as well. Are you playing exactly how you thought you would play once you got an England shirt on? or you even surprised yourself? No, it's pretty much what I believed. There was obviously a lot of talking around the no first class 100 or whatever, but I never really paid that too much attention.
34:52I felt like I've always played better against better opposition and that's kind of shown a bit in terms of, I like playing against great teams and taking on good bowlers. But yeah, I think it's also, you can look at the 300s and go, it's been great. But there's been some lean patches in there as well. I didn't have the greatest English summer last year and then topped it off with 100. And then some low scores in New Zealand prior to the Ashes was actually a bit out of touch going into that series. So you can look at it from the outside and say it's all smooth sailing, but it's been nice to actually go up and down and actually just learn to deal with that through spending a year on the road pretty much.
35:43But yeah, it's been great to have those standout moments, but all it does is make me hungry for a bit more, well, a lot more.
35:53Nas:The obvious question to ask you, and what would England fans and Warwickshire fans ask? And we've talked about your development as a player so far. A Warwickshire fan or an England fan might ask, you mentioned Jordan Cox, two of the brightest talents in the game for England at the moment, Bethel and Cox. They're sitting on the bench, warming the bench, not playing cricket. Forget the financial side of things. Which is better for your development now? could be doing that or to be playing three four rounds of county championship cricket in preparation for a test match um look i don't i don't think there's a i'm gonna sit on the fence for the start of this i don't i don't think there's a right or wrong way to do it right um i think we've seen last year for me personally that by not playing cricket for a little while I came into the end of that India series a bit undercooked which was a learning for me to take on board but actually if you look at where I was last year after coming back from the IPL I was flying going into that Western E series and I feel in a similar position now you know I feel better now than I was a month ago after the World Cup through just you know getting time around the guys over here and the pure you know standard of cricket in India and the IPL and I think you know it's something that not many people will understand how cool it is until actually being around a team or a you know the tournament itself um when you're here and it just has a completely different feel and it it feels like everyone almost ups their game like subconsciously without even really knowing because of of the caliber of the tournament and i feel like that even happens when you you're not on the um on the starting 11 or 12 it might be now with the impact player um you know every net session you've got you know hundreds of eyes on you albeit you either have your coaches or the other players who are also looking at you going is this guy good is he not like um you got the people in the crowd with the the phones on um so i think it's just it's you get exposed to a lot of stuff you might not get the amount of time in the middle um as a county championship playing four rounds of that but i think in terms of the ability to actually just continue doing what you want to do when there are loads of eyes on you is is really important for for me personally going forward and also there's it's been scheduled in now where we've had practice matches when we're not playing i know this is not gonna um be the same as you know an actual competitive game but we're getting time out in the middle from that because they're it feels like the whole squad's kind of pulling together to try they know it's going to be a team effort um a squad effort to win win the trophy again so the peep the peep i'm not and coxie as well is not being left you know just to kind of ponder about what's happening on the sideline but in short i think i think there's no there's no right way and i i think i've i firmly believe that this is the right thing for for me to be doing right now you didn't sit on the fence there at all actually i just want to ask you about red ball practice then because i saw some footage from one of those phones in the crowd of you were one of the last to leave nets i think it was yesterday or the day before you were doing some reverse sweeps into a neck.
39:28Nas:Will you incorporate any red ball practice before you come back? I mean, you could go all the way through to the final again and come back a few days before that first test. When will you incorporate or you just won't? You've just hit white balls or you've already started. Funny you ask that. I think my Duke's balls are actually arriving tomorrow. I've got a box coming over from England. You'll be out and nicking about five days time. yeah yeah um yeah so i'm planning on you know ramping up that kind of stuff um alongside you know white ball training and i actually think it's a good thing to do um in general because you know sometimes when you're just trying to smack it out of the park you you forget your basics a bit so actually by having these red balls come over and you know focus on that for a bit i think it'll help both sides of the game but yeah i'm i'm gonna be working on that for the next i think we got five weeks um maybe slightly more until until the end so yeah i'll definitely
40:32Ath:ramp that up the next month um can i ask you about some of these young indian batters and i think uh surya vanshi got a big score did he against our rcb right at the start of the tournament did he get 70 or 18 yeah yeah he got 80 of both 30 yeah um i mean you know you're a young uh you know a bright young thing, 21 years of age or something, but you must feel slightly ancient in comparison. And when you see these guys coming through, you know, this generation or the next generation, I noticed the lad is at Mokul Chowdhury saying he tries to hit 156s a practice session or something, and Suryavanshi as well.
41:17Ath:I mean, when you look at the amount of young talent coming through in India is it is it quite eye-opening you know the level of it and and the competition for places definitely definitely especially the competition for places you know like I watched I watched Suryavanshi in in IPL you train uh have split training the day before the game so I actually watched him in the nets and you know the sound off his bat and I don't think he played one block like they had six or seven netballs plus a couple of their guys i didn't actually see him get to face joff but i've watched a video of him facing joff and he didn't he didn't show any mercy um and it's just his mindset just looks so clear you know it's all out attack and yeah and he actually like people have tested him with slower balls and this kind of and he actually just he's not a one-paced hitter he's just clearly from growing up just hitting that many balls with a an aim to just smack it he's he's produced like already some of the best knocks in ipo like i think he got his first 350s in 15 balls or less which is crazy you know i think 20 used to 20 feels pretty quick but then you shave five more balls off of that it's harder to shave 20 down to 15 than it is to shave 25 to 20 like there's no sighters in a 15 ball 50 um and yeah not just through eventually you look at abhishek sharma um he's obviously a bit older now he he just got 100 last night which was incredible um but then jice wall you know shubman guild another top order batter he'd probably he's a bit more conventional than than the rest of them but But the pure depth of actual batting over here is pretty crazy to watch.
43:13Nas:Are you a watcher? Are you a watcher and learner? Will you sit in your hotel room? There's a game this evening. Are you out and you try and switch off in between games? No, I like watching. I like watching. I might not watch it live, but we've got an app that codes everything for you so you can watch ball by ball. you can watch people's overs and you know every ball that someone's faced um and i like watching but to first it's hard to kind of watch suri vanshi and go i'm gonna try and do that i didn't hit my first ball 100 meters over extra cover um i just yeah i think his mind must be so clear um which is it's pretty cool and it's something that you know i think that's just the way the game's going that you're gonna have to try and do that if not not all the time but most of the time If not, he kind of, you know, fall behind.
44:07And finally, from me, you know, I've heard your dad say many times that it's quite difficult when you ask a young cricketer about their preferred formats,
44:16Ath:because obviously you'll want to do well across formats. Any young player today will want to do well in T20, 50 over cricket and test cricket. but the way you were talking there about six hitting and one pace cricket do you genuinely still love the kind of more varied challenge that the longer form and test cricket gives you definitely I like all three but the most satisfied I felt after walking off a cricket pitch was after Sydney that was like a I felt like if I I nailed a lot of things there and I'm not just technically but mentally as well you know going through different phases of the game and I just think you get a bit starved of that when you're constantly just trying to hit sixes you don't get that feel like when you about 150 balls you have your hands feel like just they could do anything like and it's it's cool to feel that but I like I like both um I bought a 2010 on you know choosing one anytime soon but even like the uh the series in Sri Lanka we just had I found those pitches really tricky and in 50 over cricket and it's like the Indian brand of cricket is you played T20 cricket on belters and the runs are it's a run feast um bar a couple of pitches which may be a little bit slow but going to like Sri Lanka and doing stuff like that to watch someone like Ruti how he went about scoring runs was pretty cool and it's just completely different to you know India or batting in England so I'm just enjoying you know the different experiences that you get I think you get them through playing everything so yeah I don't I don't really have a a preference in terms of actual like like the feeling you get after doing something great comes in test cricket like that that feeling that i got after sydney i want to try and recreate that as many times as possible not recreate but you know do something similar or better um but yeah i think you get that sorry to interrupt
46:37Nas:final question for me your position in the side would you want it to be at number three that's where you got that 100 at Sydney. Me and Af were discussing earlier about James Rue and how England get him into the lineup. Would you be completely against moving up to open? Three to open is not a big change. Or would you like just to stay at three and establish yourself at number three for England? I'd love to stay at three if it's up to me. I really like the position. Like you said, I don't think there's a massive difference between three and the top. someone like Ruti had to start and open the batting and then kind of sit back down into number four.
47:20I think if that's what they want me to do, I'd be more than happy to do it. I think I like three and I'd love to cement that spot as mine, if possible.
47:31Ath:Well, thanks for your time. It's great that you've joined us. What's on the radar? What have you got coming up in the next day or two? RCB are going well, obviously. You're right up near the top. What's next on the... we've got a game against Goodrat Titans on Friday two training days so training later this evening and tomorrow and then play on Friday well good luck thanks for joining us give our best to Dike has he taken you out for a free meal yet? he's not a killer for that no he's not well he took me to a fantastic restaurant in Bengaluru where I can't remember the name of it but it was absolutely brilliant Although I remember, by the time we'd finished eating, there were about 300 people outside the restaurant just waiting for DK.
48:17Ath:They weren't waiting for me, by the way.
48:18Nas:Not for you.
48:19Ath:They were waiting for DK to autograph some photos. So presumably, it's quite tricky to go out, isn't it, during the tournament? Yeah, it is. Bangalore is actually pretty good. There's really nice restaurants. And the chef at one of them is a great guy. And he just pretty much puts us in the corner. And no one sees us. We walk in. No one sees us walk out. it's okay for the overseas guys but when we go with someone that's a bit more higher profile in the Indian circles it's chaos well good luck for the rest of the tournament I hope we get to see you actually on the park at some point and obviously we'll catch up with you back in England when we hope you arrive here in excellent form for the start of the Test Series good luck thanks for joining us perfect cheers thanks guys go well JT
49:20Ath:Well, Ness, he seems pretty switched on kid, doesn't he? I don't know what he is now. What is he, 21 or something? But you can see why England have invested so much in him.
49:33Nas:Yeah, absolutely. And for all the talk of what England got wrong over the last year or so, here's proof of what they got right. and their eye for selection. And they have had a very good eye for selection. And he is one of them. He's a nice balance between humble but also confident, down-to-earth humble lad. But I think he's confident. I spoke to him before that 100 in Sydney the day before the game, and I asked him about reaction and social media and stuff. And he said, in a not arrogant way, I don't need to go to social media to see how good I am or whatever. I know how good I am. And he didn't mean that in a, I'm a brilliant player.
50:13Nas:He just has that inner confidence, which I think you need actually as a cricketer. Did you always see, I mean, I took the mick out there of you and him on Acra Beach and Josh growing up. You've seen quite a bit of him growing up. Did you always think this lad is special or has he surprised you?
50:31Ath:To be honest, I mean, I've not seen that much of him growing up. I just would occasionally bump into him and his family on the beach. and what struck me always was just how he talked about that kind of natural upbringing, that kind of, I suppose, handball-eye coordination that you have when you're just outdoors all the time, you know, playing 24-7 in the sun and just a very natural development. So that was always what struck me. And then I didn't really see him play formal cricket, but the word in Barbados was always watch out for this kid. You know, he's special. And it was interesting what he said so far.
51:18Ath:There's plenty of signs that that is the case. But he also said, you know, I've had a few rough patches along the way, which every young cricketer, indeed every cricketer, will go through. And I think the key to a career, really, or the key to a long career is just working out how to deal with failure. The game is as much about failure as success, no matter how good you are. And he may well be, you know, may well be one of the better players we've had in recent years by the end of his career. but he's still going to have some rough times. So how you deal with that, how you cope with that, the resilience you need and always trying to put what's happened behind you and concentrate on the next innings, that's really the key to it all.
52:08Ath:And as you say, seems pretty switched on and pretty level-headed.
52:15Nas:And the debate of whether he should... I remember you talk saying...
52:19Ath:No, he's got to stay at three.
52:20Nas:I think it's a nonsense what people are talking about. Remember with Andy Flower, you know, poacher turned gamekeeper, when he was talking about Kevin Peterson at the beginning of the season and how Kevin should be back in England playing and getting ready for Test match cricket and playing Test match cricket and Kevin wanted to be at the IPL. And now you have it with this young player in Bethel. I mean, firstly, it's a lot of money. I mean, the young lad who could make a heck of a lot of money. Secondly, England do play, and he will play, a lot of white ball cricket. We forget, for us, red ball cricket is very important.
52:56Nas:We forget the amount of white ball cricket. You cannot tell me being at RCB is not improving him as a white ball cricketer. But obviously, he's sitting there and, as you said, warming the bench. Where do you stand on that? He has no other option but like him and Cox.
53:12Ath:I mean, you're right in what you say about the eye for talent. England have got a lot wrong in the last year, but plucking Jacob Bethel to bat at number three in that Test Series in New Zealand two years ago when Warwickshire really weren't giving him that much of an opportunity up the order, you have to say well done to the selectors there. They saw it and they went with it. They had the courage to go with their convictions, so well done. I don't think they got it right with him last year. You know, we've talked about this many times. I would have brought him back for that opening Test match against Zimbabwe.
53:49Ath:And therefore, that might have had him in the team. You never know. These are all alternative histories. You don't know what would have happened, but he might then have been in the team throughout the summer, might have started the Ashes. Who knows? But that's a choice they made. And he admitted there that by the time he got into the side for the end of the India series, he was totally undercooked and underdone. so I felt a bit of sympathy for him in that trying to play in that high-pressure test match with very little cricket behind him but that's a lesson no doubt that he and the selectors might learn along the way but right now he's got a bat at three after that hundred at Sydney he's a great hundred they look totally to the man of Bourne and as you know because you made it look the most difficult position in the world three is not a straightforward position you both gotta have the technique and the know-how to get past the new ball, but then also take it on if you can.
54:47Ath:And I thought he did that beautifully. And people talking about moving up the top of the order to accommodate Rue, I just think that's crazy. He should be at three for the opening test match of the summer.
55:02Nas:Completely agree. Completely agree. And that's a few weeks off. Looking forward to seeing you this week. I might not see you, actually, because you're doing the first two days. I'm doing the last two days. Sorry, Essex.
55:12Ath:We're doing Surrey, Essex. And that should be a good game, actually. Surrey have not yet quite got going, have they? But they're finding it perhaps difficult to take. Nor have Essex, by the way.
55:28Nas:Essex are missing some batters, so they need to get some runs on the board. So it should be a good contest, that.
55:36Ath:I'm doing Friday, Saturday of that game. You're doing Sunday, Monday. and let's hope for a good four days of championship cricket. So I won't see you then, but we'll catch up the week after.
From the publisher
Ath and Nas are joined by England batter Jacob Bethell on the latest episode of the Sky Sports Cricket Podcast.
They chat about Jacob's experiences in the IPL, about his upbringing in Barbados and he also tells us about his aspirations to play multi-format cricket for England.
Plus, Nas and Ath chat about the opening weeks of the County Championship and whether the rules about substitutes need tweaking.
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