Joe Root speaks to Athers about life after Bazball, curfews and returning as captain

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0:32Joe Root:Gone, he gets his fairytale ending. An epic way to go to a Test Match 100. The London Spirit of First Time win is the most remarkable thing you'll probably ever see in cricket. 604 and final Test wicket for Stewart Ball. It's ended when the T20 won. Can you believe it? Moments after Stokes' international career is coming to an end. Another wicket for this incredible cricketer. This week's Sky Cricket podcast coming to you from Cardiff Bay or at the hotel of the Welsh Fire. Joe Root, of course, playing for the Welsh Fire this year. But next week, he begins his second coming as England's captain in the first of three tests against Pakistan.

1:21Joe Root:We'll be previewing that series later on. We'll have Azam Mahmood with us on the Sky Cricket podcast to preview the Pakistan series. But today I caught up with Joe Roo. Nasser is still on his month-long holiday. So I took the chance to speak with Joe. It's about half an hour and he goes into some detail about his aims and ambitions in a second go as England captain. Joe, when you stepped away from the England captaincy first time around, you said you had an unhealthy relationship with it. Why are you putting yourself through it again?

1:56Athers:um well first and foremost think that the landscape is very different now um you look at back at that time we're just sort of coming out the other side of covid um and as a team we'd spent 20 odd games in those kind of environments and if i'm being brutally honest i think having that having to do that for so long um and it wasn't really the in-game stuff that wore me down and it was the stuff that surrounded it and being involved in things that weren't what you'd normally expect to be involved in as an England captain. I think they sort of bled into everything else and it got to a point where I wasn't enjoying it anymore.

2:39Athers:I wasn't getting the best out of myself. Certainly weren't getting the best out of the players, but I also think that was a byproduct of having to live the way that we were living for such a long period of time. um you know and you you marry that up with playing India twice and Australia as well within that period it makes things very difficult and it got to the point where it was time for someone else to take over um and you know the last four years have been probably for the most enjoyable of my career um I got to see the game slightly differently look at it with a through a different lens which you know once you as you know once you've captained you you do look at the game slightly differently afterwards.

3:17Athers:And I feel in a really unique position now where I have that experience of not many people get the chance to do it again. And, you know, the world lives a very different place. I'm four years more experienced, a lot more games under my belt, work with Brendan and Baz in a slightly different capacity and feel really readied for the challenge that lies ahead.

3:39Joe Root:We'll come on to how you might do things differently, but are you confident you won't get damaged again by the experience, if that's the right term.

3:47Athers:Yeah. I mean, unless we find ourselves in another pandemic. No, I think things are very different now and how I manage my way through that will be very different as well.

3:58Joe Root:Is it out of a sense of duty that you're doing this again because you've been asked to do it, or is there a real desire to have a second crack at it?

4:08Athers:No, I think there's just pure excitement by where we currently sit. I think we've been underwhelming with our performances, but you look at the talent that lies within that team, you look at our bowling attack, for example, and the start that those individuals have had and the impact they can make on test matches and test cricket. You know, that's a really exciting group to be working with and to have, you know, a variety of pace, different skill, different sort of release points and angles to be able to operate with that is very exciting. and feel like there's a lot of good stuff that we've done over the last four years and probably been slightly overshadowed by our performances in the recent past.

4:48Athers:But I don't think there's a lot, a huge amount that has to be done, or certainly not drastically. It's more being quite cute and tweaking things and building on a lot of good stuff that's been laid over that period of time.

5:03Joe Root:You did one match at the Oval. Was there anything that happened in that game That gave you second thoughts About wanting to have a crack at the captaincy again? Because you were dealt a pretty poor hand in that game But clearly it didn't go well

5:20Athers:No, but as you mentioned There was a lot to contend with that week For everyone involved and all the players And I think when you find yourself in amongst chaos You do learn a lot about each other And I thought the way that the lads handled themselves Around the game was exceptional and now I wouldn't say anything put me off throughout that week there was a lot of changes and a lot of differences with everyone to contend with and we just didn't manage certain elements of the game as well as we might have and some of that was down to inexperience some of that was down to the quality of New Zealand as well and us not being able to respond to that and I think they're all lessons that you take on boards both personally and collectively so that you're better for it if you find yourself there again down the line.

6:08Joe Root:And before that game, you said that you were really excited to work with Brendan McCollum as coach. That lasted one game. Is that a disappointment that it only lasted one game for you, that chance to work with him? Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest with you.

6:26Athers:I was gutted when I found out Brendan was no longer going to be the test coach. is someone that I feel has really got the best out of me personally. I've loved the way he sees the game and the way that he's opened my eyes up to looking at it slightly differently, even after 120-odd games or whatever it was one of the time he took over. So I feel like he's a brilliant coach. I'm very glad that we still get to work together in the white ball stuff and someone that I owe a huge amount too. and I've become pretty close with it over that period of time as well. So I think they're doing the brilliant stuff in the White Bowl teams and I wish him all the very best in that.

7:12Joe Root:That said, you got a chance to work with Stephen Fleming. What excites you about him and that opportunity?

7:19Athers:I think more than anything, we've crossed paths a bit over the last few years when he's coached different teams around the world but um I've someone I've always admired he was one of the you know when I used to um when I used to watch channel 4 watch you and your team play um and you know New Zealand would tour and he'd come over as the opposition captain he's someone that I really did admire and the way that he's always held himself as a captain first and foremost the way he played um and then you know his record as a coach has been exceptional albeit in t20 cricket he's had to manage some um very experienced environments he's been in high pressure situations and has got a huge amount of success um with a lot of the teams that he's been involved with so to get to work with someone with that amount of experience 100 games as a test captain as well understands you know what um you know what the role takes from a personal point of view but also is very calm um has a really good way around from my experience already around the group and when you speak to other guys that work with him and creates a brilliant environment for the lads to thrive in so there's so much that i'm looking forward to in in that respect um and yeah i just want to get were you consulted about his appointment I had a good conversation with him and, you know, I didn't necessarily think that it would be the right thing for me to be involved in that decision.

8:55Athers:It was for him to choose his captain and the fact that that's what he wanted really excited me as well. And the fact we're very aligned on a lot of things, I think is a really good starting point and base for us to work from.

9:08Joe Root:Since you stepped away as England captain for the first time Obviously we've had four and a bit years of basball, so-called A change really, a transformational change Around the England team, both for good and in some ways not so good What are the bits of basball that you want to keep In your second crack as England captain?

9:35Athers:I want to keep the always looking to move the game forward but it's got to fit with the situation you find yourself in I think one thing that Baz did was he took away a lot of fear I feel like there was periods where guys played with fear especially batting and I don't at no point should you ever feel like that as a player always looking at how you can affect the game how you can take wickets but it's the method of how you go about that it doesn't have to happen and you can't always win a game in half an hour you might have to work your way through it go through a tricky period absorb a lot more pressure and you know take two hours to solve the problem to then make it easy for yourself later on so I don't think I don't want to sort of impress a style on this team I I think test cricket is about understanding what the game requires in each and every moment and being good enough to execute that, recognise it and then executing that.

10:40Athers:So I think that's the one thing for me is can we be good enough to do that? And, you know, you look at the skill within that group of players, it's definitely there.

10:48Joe Root:So is that the key change that you want to make then, perhaps what you might call situational awareness or adaptability?

10:54Athers:Yeah, and I don't think it needs much. I think a lot of the time we did a lot of really good things, but we didn't know when to necessarily shift gear. And I think whether that be up or down, that's a small learning for us that could make a big difference. Towards the end of your captaincy at Lourdes in 2021, New Zealand set your team at what might have been thought of as a relatively adventurous run chase.

11:22Joe Root:It didn't seem to those watching that you even thought about going for the runs. Will an England team under Joe Root Mark II play that situation differently?

11:34Athers:I think, again, it depends on the situation of the game. But, you know, you always want to look to win first. And, you know, I don't like the narrative of potentially being seen as a negative captain. I don't think that's how I play the game. You know, if you watch me back, it's certainly not how I go about things. and it's always about how can you get there, how can you get to where you want to get to at the end. If it's chasing the score down, how does that look? Can you construct a way through it? And depending on the conditions, what does that look like? So certainly we'll always look to try and win the game.

12:10Athers:But if that's not a possibility, can we sometimes find a way to get a draw?

12:19Joe Root:Ben Stokes. a remarkable England captain in many ways. What did you learn from him playing under him?

12:29Athers:A lot like his playing, really, the way that he'd always, I mean, he's always led from the front, whether he's a player or not. And he certainly tried to do that as captain and was very successful in many ways with that. I think the clarity in terms of what was expected from the group and making sure that everyone was fully aware of what was understood what was required of them, especially at the start of his tenure, was exceptional. And, you know, he fiercely defended his players and looked after them as best he could on the majority of occasions. So, you know, there's a lot to learn from. He's obviously a great friend of mine, someone that will stay friends beyond cricket.

13:11Athers:And of course, it's sad that he's no longer playing, but I think he's left a very good legacy as both a player and a leader.

13:19Joe Root:What can you do better than him?

13:21Athers:as captain it's a difficult question to answer i think that's sometimes that's quite a personal subjective answer but um i think more than anything is is build on what he's already a lot of the stuff that he's already done i think ripping things up and starting again and trying to um change things is not necessarily the answer i think you want to keep a lot of the good things that have been put there and it's just made small adjustments that over time will make big differences.

13:55Joe Root:I often wondered about the person who would have to take over from Ben Stocks that it wasn't going to be an easy challenge in the sense that he's a very he was a very charismatic leader I'm not saying for one minute you're not by the way but there is a challenge there have you thought about that and how you're going to put your own imprint back on the team it needs to be joe root's team again and not ben stokes's team doesn't it how are you going

14:20Athers:to do that by being myself and i think the i think the hardest thing for me will be people's opinion of how i captained four years ago and i think it's very important to remember and for me to remember more than anything is i'm a completely different player to what i was four years ago i've had four more years of experience um in a very different environment which has opened my eyes up in many different ways and i mean even you as a broadcaster a pundit you you'd be a very different commentator to what you were the first time you did it or for even four years ago you're always evolving you're always learning and the reason i've played 160 test matches is because i have that mindset and mentality of as a player i've always looked to evolve and move my game forward and i don't see this as any different um you know you you've got to learn and uh and to be honest you know when you make mistakes and when you get things wrong you look at yourself and you know I don't want to make that mistake again and you learn from it and and you deal with it differently next time around so the fact that I've got all of that experience in the bank and I've been there before I think it's a massive bonus and it shouldn't be a hindrance and you know I hope people don't see it like that I hope they see it as a massive upside to to getting the chance to do it again.

15:36Joe Root:Are there specifics then you talked about not many people get the chance to do it again you must have thought about lots that went on in that four year period are the specifics that you've thought about and said to yourself if that situation arises

15:50Athers:again i'm going to do it differently yeah and um some of which i'll keep to myself and others i mean i don't want to keep going on about covid but covid i ended up being involved in conversations that an england captain shouldn't be and you end up taking on jobs and responsibility that aren't yours to deal with um and you know that then impacts the rest of everything you do um and i i also am fully aware that that was a very unique set of circumstances where no one had been there before no one had any experience in it and you're sort of all living in the moment and trying to do your best to get through um in whatever walk of life you're in but i think understanding what what is required of me as England captain and being able to delegate the rest of the stuff to other people and having that as my pure focus and making sure that the playing staff and that coaching group have my full attention and energy so that we can go and commit to what we think is the best way to go and win test matches.

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17:38Joe Root:fourth day at Trent Bridge against New Zealand Ben Stokes is kind of retirement day I felt that showed in fact the worst of basball that England played very self indulgently do you agree with that I think

17:52Athers:it's a very frantic day a very emotional day in many ways as well and again I think there was certain things that you know Ben going out and opening the batting you get everyone on the boundary and it's wood it's then you've got to rein it back in and take the the option if you end up that day 70 for none or 70 for one all of a sudden that's a stroke of genius and um you very much game on and in the driving seat going into day five so um the way that it unfolded was was obviously not like that um but there was you know there was clear method in what was trying to be achieved it's just we didn't even stick to that and execute that and whether that was down to the occasion and everything that was happening around it um who knows exactly but um it's it's frustrating because i'd again that four years should i'd like it someone that's lived it and had so much joy and played in so many amazing games and successful series and moments um you don't want it to be remembered for that because i don't think it's really a fair reflection of ben as a leader brendan as a coach and what that team achieved over that