Live at Lord's! England v India Third Test Preview with Ravi Shastri and Dinesh Karthik

20:23I just pick up the papers and just go through. Afton first times. And we reach here and the partnership adds about over 100. Bumrah and Shami, 85-90 run partnership. That lifted the dressing room. And it was COVID time, so the long room was empty. No members allowed. So when the two players came back, The whole team stood there, you know, we made a corridor for them and welcomed back. And I knew. There and then I knew Kohli is going to tell them something once they go out into the huddle there. You know, you couldn't hold each other or anything. You had to stay properly. And that's when he said, unleash hell.

21:10Ath:When you came in as coach, Emestoni was captain. Did you always have your eye on Kohli? Could you see that this was a guy you wanted to lead India after Dhoni? He was a very different kind of a leader and a different kind of a character, wasn't he? I was in the commentary box at the Oval doing television. When my phone rang five, six times asking me to do the job, India had lost the series there 3-1 or 3-4-0, I think. And the only reason I took it was, A, I believe they weren't playing the way they should. the whole way they should play test cricket should be different, where they take the game forward towards Kohli.

21:51I said, there is an uncut diamond who I want as my captain. At some stage. Because I knew MS, brilliant white ball captain. Test cricket, he could allow the game to drift. And probably he'd had enough. You know, two tours here, they'd not won. Australia, they'd not won. And you needed a change. He was the man. and I told him very early in my stint I think in the first month of my stint itself when I was here for the one day series I said start thinking but you're going to leave and he was up for it that was just the incentive we needed he was up for it

22:28Ath:Did you enjoy that stint as coach? I mean you've been in the commentary box for a long time you've come back to the commentary box where we love you of course but then you had that little stint India had a lot of success very different kind of a job for you did you enjoy the new challenge? I think at the end of it, the most challenging, but the most rewarding, if you see the way the boys played. And I was there seven years. I was a director first two years, five years as coach. And yeah, the guns always pointed at you in our part of the world. But when you see the boys play the way they did, and you see the superstars coming through the ranks.

23:03You know, there were four captains that changed. Dhoni went to Kohli, Kohli went to Rohit, Rohit went to, at time, to Ajinkirane. You had all these guys there. So, there was transition all the time. And then you saw all these youngsters coming through the ranks. Rishabh, Pant, he replaced DK. Shubhman came in. That's an upgrade. Hardik. He was speaking properly. He mentioned a hundred other names. I'm just used as bait in this podcast.

23:36In the one-day game, Hardik, biggest Bumrah, you know, to pick, Bumrah was labeled as a white ball bowler and then bring him in to play red ball cricket. You know, raised a few eyebrows, but, you know, you had to take, you know, at times as a coach that I found the toughest thing was you had to take the bullets just to deflect. you know especially in the media you take the bullets so the attention is diverted from the

24:03Ath:team it's a good point Ravi's making DK isn't I mean taking the mickey a bit but I've been in Bengaluru with you I remember you taking me to that lovely restaurant there where we had medallion steak or something you said we got to go and try the medallion steak and crowds were just waiting for you outside the restaurant I'm looking around thinking who are they waiting for? But there were hundreds of them there for you. So just give our viewers and listeners a sense of what it's like to be an Indian cricketer in this day and age, the modern day and age when the IPL is so massive and obviously you've been part of one of the biggest franchises there.

24:42The national sport in India, they say, is hockey. But without a doubt in India, the most followed, the most loved, the most watched sport is cricket. There is no doubting that. I mean, just as an example, IPL started 18 years ago. Today, it is the second most watched league across the world. And that cannot come because it's a global sport. It's because it's a sport that is dominated by India. You know, we have 1.3 billion as we speak and a majority of them watch it. And it's now slowly crept into the other cricketing countries as well. And the beauty about being a sportsman in India, like in any other aspect, is they love you.

25:18But also That means you have a lot of responsibility You're playing for a nation which Demands success Absolutely And in all fairness I think India is a powerhouse right now On the field You know The kind of talents they have And their factory that is producing More and more cricketers By the minute And all of them as good as others So it's probably one of the toughest times To be an Indian cricketer I'm sure it was tough back then as well But today it's a lot more tougher Because there's a lot more cricketers for the coach to have a look at and go, yes. And that also breeds a little bit of insecurity and because you know you're always looking over your shoulder knowing there's some guy there who's as good if not better than me.

25:56I need to be out there doing the best that I can. So there is a lot of pressure. And there's one thing I want to speak about, Atas. You spoke about Virat Kohli. You know, I met him a few days ago and we were just chatting generally and this topic about captaincy came up and he said, you know, people think I'm a great test cricketer and I enjoyed my test batting which I did. But the fact is that me getting my captaincy was the best thing to happen to my batting. And why I'm saying that is the same line was used by Shubman Gill as well. He said, I used to bat differently but now after I've got captaincy, I almost, when I'm batting, thinking, this is what my team requires than me wanting to do something individually as a batter, which I thought, wow.

26:34Now, this is something the world of cricket has to take notice because here's a man who has appetite, who has a skill, who's got the technique but now he's got the mindset as well that says, I'm a captain, I'm going to lead of the front foot. And it was seen last test match. I'm sure there's going to be a lot more test matches for us to observe him. But it looks like he's on the right path. And both have to walk the talk. You know, Virat was very clear. Remember his first test match in Adelaide, he got 100 in each innings. Target was 380. First thing he said in the dressing room, we're going for it.

27:02You know, we had a chat. I said, the only way you're not going to crumble against Australia is thinking of winning. If you think of saving this game or blocking two sessions, they'll be all over you. like a rash. And he led from the front in that second innings going for that target. So it helped him raise the bar. And I think the same with Shubman. Because every... We saw in that second innings when he wanted to play shots he could play all the shots. You know, move the crease. You know, manipulate things. Hit where he wants to. But he was playing against his natural instincts in the interests of the team.

27:38So I think it might do wonders for him as well.

27:44Ath:Hi, I'm Kelly Cates and welcome to our brand new podcast, The Pursuit, brought to you by Audi, the official innovation partner of Sky Sports. Each episode, I'm going to be speaking to the top performers in sport to discuss their road to success, the defining moments of their career, and ask them what's next to better understand what drives sports people at the highest level. Joining me for this series is an incredible line-up of guests, including Jimmy Anderson, Dina Asher-Smith, Anthony Watson and our very first episode with Mary Earps. The best thing about goalkeeping is that everybody does it so differently.

28:20Nas:I don't think anyone should ever shy away from what their strengths are. Everyone always leads with what you need to improve on and, you know, you always want to improve as a player. But I think when everything, as I say, started to line up for me on and off the pitch was when I really started to say, you know what, this is my thing. This is my lane. This is who Mary Earps is.

28:39Ath:Make sure you've followed on your favourite podcast platform and I look forward to seeing you on The Pursuit.

28:49Ath:Ravi talking there about captains raising the bar. I think we'd both agree that Ben Stokes has done that over the last three years for England. It's a good way to get into what we've seen over the last couple of weeks and what's coming up. As pundits, this England team, they knock you off kilter a little bit, don't they? I think we like to think of ourselves as reasonable and reasoned pundits. But one day they're putting out the second biggest chase of all time at Headingley. and the next game they count about 150 overs on the flattest pitch of all time. So they're a little bit up and down. How challenging as a pundit do you find it to cover this England team under Ben Stokes?

29:33Nas:I think you've just got to check yourself and remember and try and remember what you said last week. And try and remember what it's like being a player as well as a pundit. It's so easy just to shoot from the hip and go up with them and down with them, but try and stay consistent. and if they're really good, don't go over the top. There's still areas when they won and have won in the past where they could have been much more ruthless. And if they lose like they did this last week, don't just say, well, that's it, Baz Ball's rubbish. Why do we play like this? And especially nowadays with social media, Ravi talks about picking up papers in the morning on the bus.

30:07Nas:Nowadays, social media is like that. Even with India, it's like everything's up when you win and everything's down when you try and stay consistent. It is hard with this team. I do think Ben Stokes is one of the best England captains.

30:18Ath:I was going to ask you, as a highly respected former England captain, what are the things that you've seen in his leadership that you like? He ticks a lot of boxes.

30:28Nas:So you knew someone here, Mike Brearley, for example, maybe wasn't the player of a Ben Stokes or a Shubman Gill or a Virat Kohli, but his man management and his man management of the likes of Ian Botham and his degree in people that people talk about, he had that, that emotional intelligence. you'll have captains that you played under Graham Gooch who just led from the front he was England through and through Alex Stewart was like you were someone that you would go out there when you were out there in the middle the team felt comfortable AF was Johannesburg wherever AF would be playing for England Stokes pretty much and then you have tactical captains like Vaughan in that 2005 Ashes series Vaughan not only handled pressure well I mean what they call him the iron fist in the velvet glove he was tough but he was fairly relaxed in one of the most pressure driven series there has ever been 2005 ashes I think Stokes has all of that he has the tactic some of the tactical things he does with spin the way he played with the field for Rishabh Punt the other day the emotional intelligence he has that he showed when he has new young players that he shows with Bashir he puts his arm around him and he he gets him in England players love playing for Ben Stokes but he's also tough you know you I did that documentary for Sky um and spoke to Jurgen Klopp and I said what is leadership about he said it's about being their friend but not being their best friend and I think Stokes has got that he's their friend in that dressing room but if you cross Stokes and you don't do the thing Stokes asked you to do you won't be in that side for very long so

32:01Ath:and yet of the two right now right as if they were sitting here now Shubmangill and Ben Stokes after the first two games, you'd say actually the home captain is under a little bit more pressure this week. I heard Ben speak before the Edgbaston test match and he was talking about how much the Leeds game took out of him, but there were seven days off between the first and the second test. There's only three days off before this game. Really, when you look at the series as a whole, let's take the two games it's one all but you'd have to say India have won more sessions more days cricket and probably might look back and think we should really be two nil up yeah absolutely I mean it's

32:44Nas:a travesty that if they'd come here one nil if they'd managed to hold on for a draw which England don't do draws but if it happened the rain a bit longer on that last day yesterday it was only yesterday um and it was one nil I think Shubham and Gill be thinking how we get into Lords one We used to do that pie chart, didn't we, and who wins every session? They have, as you say, won more sessions than England. And also you feel like they've manoeuvred it well. I know people were critical leaving Boomer out. How are you going to take 20 wickets without Boomer? Well, they've done that on a very flat pitch at Edgbaston.

33:16Nas:And so now they have their trump card, their big gun, coming in on a ground that he's bowled well at before, on a ground where he wants to get on the honours board, with two weeks of rest. Whereas England have got to come in either with tired bowlers, Or if they leave their tired bowlers out, they've got to come in with two bowlers who haven't played recently in Atkinson or haven't played a test match for four years in Joffre Archer. So Ben's tiredness comes from not only on-field, but off-field thinking. That's the thing with leadership of a test side that you must never underestimate. And that's why Shubham Gill, with all the questions about Boomer before Edgbaston, and everything was about Boomer, Everything would have ended up at his door to go out and bat the way he did and win that test match was excellent.

34:01Nas:So now Stokes has to do all that thinking and he's got to get some runs out. Let's be honest, the opposition captain is getting a whole shed load of runs. And Ben Stokes' run getting has fallen away because of injury, because of the rhythm of batting that he's lost. So he is under a bit of pressure.

34:19Ath:Showed a lot of character, the Indian team, to win that game at Edgbaston. I mean, when you look back at the first Test match, they made five individual hundreds and lost, becoming the only team in the history of the game to do that. England a record or second highest ever run chase on that final day. We've all played in defeats in Test cricket, but some defeats hurt you more than others, don't they? And that one must have hurt India, given how well they played for such long periods, yet two dramatic collapses and some drop catches. It's a great lesson that a test match, you have to put in good sessions all the time.

35:00Ath:One bad session can cost you a game. Couldn't be more true in that game because they batted really nicely, but the fielding was very ordinary. And the two collapses, like you just said, and that put so much pressure on them. You could almost sense that pressure being carried out even in this test match. And I'm pretty sure it's because of the way England bats that they were under so much pressure to think, when do we declare against these guys? You give them a total which they even feel like they can touch, they're coming hard at you. Now, the moment they get a partnership, we know the speed at which they play.

35:31What's the feel you're going to set? It's a young captain, very inexperienced bowling. All of that comes back to you. So, they decided, we don't want England to even think for a second. This target is gettable. They said, not 500, 608. Now come after us Because You know That's what Brooke said No matter what target they said We're going to come after you And Trez came the next day And said We're not stupid We understand how the game is If required We play for a draw But the point is In that game In the Leeds game rather It was about A young captain Understanding that It's not going to be good enough If you dominate four days You've got to come All five days And be at it And then you earn the right For a victory On the first four days The mistakes that they made At different points of time Came back to haunt them On the last day Because the last day Without a doubt England dominated it They were comfortable They cantered to a win There wasn't an issue with them But it's the first four days That India actually dominated When they could have been ruthless And just literally put the feet on the throat They didn't They kind of felt Oh we are ahead in the game We are fine We will get past it And the last day It came back to haunt him That's the one thing Which I really enjoyed in Shubhaman Gil Because he almost took it upon himself To say I am not going to allow my team To make that mistake I am set I am batting well I will bat and almost most of his decisions were justified by playing that extra batting all-rounder, not batting all-rounder, a bowler who can bat Washington at number eight, getting that partnership.

36:50All of that was justified with the partnership that they had, stretched this total and eventually that helped them at the back end of the game.

36:56Ath:Rav, you've been around a long time now. You've seen decades of Indian cricket. How good a performance was that from Shubmangil? 269 and 161. He broke a whole host of records along the way. But just put that performance in some context for us in the history of the Indian cricket that you've seen. The best by a captain? 10 out of 10. I mean, you can't ask for anything more from a captain. You're one down in the series, you come out there and you back like Bradman. You know, 268, 161 and you end up winning the game. Your captaincy was very reactive in the first Test match. You almost followed the ball.

37:38You were very proactive in the next game. You might have just unearthed the best seamer for English conditions in this Indian lineup by picking Akash Deep, you know, who will trouble England as this series progresses, you know, if there's some help there. And then the best thing he did, I think, over those six days, seven days off, he went to the pharmacy, went to Boots and he got a non-greasy hand sanitizer you know, so non, it means no grease in that so the catches don't slip, they stick I really wonder, I wonder if you were going with that to be honest slightly nervous there, given we're alive so that he said, bloody hell that we don't want anything hand cream where the ball just is like butterfingers you have.

38:32I'm going to get something that is, that's going to, you know, stick properly into your hand. Just put that, go out there, hold your catches, you win matches. So it's an old saying. Program can still be PG for a second. Going down a different direction.

38:49Ath:You interviewed Shubham for us before the series. You know him well. He seems a very cool customer. just give us a bit of an insight into his character, maybe what he likes to get up to off the field when he's not consumed by cricket, as of course every international cricketer is. But you have to find ways of getting away from the game, of relaxing, of kind of putting the game to one side. What's he like? What are his enthusiasms? What is he like to get up to? You spoke about the interview. I'll just go a little further back because the first time I met him was right from the under-19. They had earmarked him as a good player And he got picked for KKR In which I was leading sadly for them But the point is He came in as an opening batter He was somebody who did really well at number 3 In the Runder 19 World Cup But he couldn't fit in at number 3 We had somebody called Nitesh Rana And then we had other batters So he batted at number 6 and 7 Just him and Russell through the middle It wasn't definitely customized for him that role It was something that he had to work on a little bit But not once did he frown And I thought he made the most of the situation But the one thing that did come through Was his determination He wanted to do it He wanted to be part of the IPL Because there was another player there Just behind the ranks Who was doing very nicely His name was Rinku Singh I play Shubman Gill actually at that stage Slightly ahead of Rinku Singh And it was a decision that was You know, justified with the way Things panned out Because He was very calm under pressure And with someone like Russell A lot of the times He would just give strike to him And just observe what's happening And if the game came on the line He would hit you that one boundary So you almost knew this guy could handle pressure.

40:26And things kept going for a year, year and a half. And the second year when we came back, we didn't do that well at the start. So one day he walked up to me and said, Dikipa, I think it's time I can open now. You know, you're the captain. If somebody comes in, do you think there's an option to open? That would have been a nicer question. He said, it's time I think I open. So he's a young lad. No shots of confidence. No, no, no. He came and said straight up. I was a bit taken aback. I didn't see that coming because we've had interactions, always very respectful. You know, He's a small, you know, he's coming from a small village, very on the Pakistan border is where they were.

40:57Big agricultural lands, their families into agriculture. And he and his dad used to practice a lot in those areas. They used to have a cement wicket and that's how he grew playing with him. And you don't see a small towner like that. You've seen a few come around the likes. But for me, it was a bit of a revelation. A young boy coming and saying, I think I'm ready now. You can send me. And I told him, give me a couple of games because the guy who was there, We need to probably Wait for him to fail a little more Because I need to back him as well He said okay When it comes Please make sure it's me Because I'm ready And the first game He got the opportunity It came against Punjab King He got 87 not out Chasing 1-8 And it was almost like You know You made a mistake We didn't qualify It almost was like You made a mistake You had sent me earlier I think we would have qualified It was that kind of a Without him saying the obvious It felt like that And he's a young kid Who doesn't speak much A bit shy and all of that But there were two cricketers In that Two batters Who came through There was Prithvi Shaw and there was Shubman Gill.

41:53Prithvi Shaw was probably the frontrunner at that stage. But the one thing you knew, if you put both of them on the same pedestal, Shubman Gill actually, behind the scenes, worked his backside off. That was very obvious. He'd go to the gym. He was almost having a pinpoint precision towards what he wanted to achieve. You could almost sense that. And it was only a matter of time. Then he came back, played for Punjab, did well in the domestic circuit. You had to keep picking him. And when he came for the first time, I'll not forget, in Hamilton. That's when he was picked for the first time. So, you know, I was padded up.

42:23He was a middle-order batsman. He was three and I was at five. So, we both batted together. To the left is the coach who's there. He generally stands behind the net like this. And he started with me. Behind the net like this. And suddenly, there was a couple of sounds. Tuck, took straight from the middle of the bat. Slowly walked to his left to Shubman Gill's net. And there was one guy in our Indian team who's still around. His name is Raghu. He does the sidearm. And he bowls a fastball. And not many fancy playing him on good pitches itself. He smashed it. I remember him walking across, just observing him and going saying, wow, this guy is special and I think he should take over after this because he was special.

42:59Nas:That answer was longer than one of your innings. I saw him first. I think in Dharamshala, my last two years of this thing. And he was doing exactly what he said. And by the way, DK said all that opening the innings and then he released him next year. Don't ask him why they released him. I was released too. No, so I saw him in the nets and Raghu goes at 160 because he bowls no balls and he's slinging, bouncing him. This guy whacking him. I'd not seen an Indian player pulling in that fashion. Kohli, and then after Kohli, this fellow. And this guy used to watch Kohli very, very closely in whatever he did, the way he trained, in everything he did.

43:45And I remember telling my bowling coach, the batting coach, he was from Punjab. Vikram Rathur, I called him and I said, who's this guy man? Bring him into the mix. Immediately. So we spoke to the selectors and he came in pretty quickly. It took a while to play but brought him into the mix. You saw, I mean he had done well under 19 and things of that sort. But when you saw him, the first time I saw him I said, this is class. This is class. I've seen Tendulkar, first time. Caught your imagination. Kohli of course when he captain played. This bloke when I saw him first time I said, this is…

44:18Ath:And the point that you made, I mean, Kohli from Delhi, Tendulkar from Mumbai, when you were growing up, most of the big name players came from the metropolis, didn't they? I mean, he's on the border in the Punjab, moved to Mahali. And I suppose that's the story of modern Indian cricket, isn't it? That this talent now is just coming from everywhere. And it's hunger. It's, you know, the guys in the metros are soft. They're spoiled for choices. You know, there are plenty of other choices. These guys who come from the tier two, tier three cities, they're hungry. You know, Kapil started it for us in 83, went on to win the World Cup.

44:57MS Dhoni came from Ranchi out of nowhere, you know, and then caught the imagination of everyone. And then it became like fashion. You know, you had and the beauty is you've got rounds now all over India in tier two cities as well. So there are opportunities for these guys from tier 2, 3 or 3 cities to play the game, get noticed and come and play for India. And you will see more and more coming from there because of that hunger, that passion, that drive and wanting to play for the country for a long time.

45:28Ath:We did a little thing on Suryavanshi, didn't we, in the test match. 14 in the IPL and 100 and smacking England under-19s around the other day. I think it was 143 in 70 balls or something. There's some unbelievable players.

45:43Nas:I think they'll always be the conveyor belt. And I think the interesting question for you, DK, having worked in the IPL and coaching in the IPL, there's obviously going to be that challenge. We're here for a Lord's Test match. The two, three weeks we've had have been brilliant. We're of a certain age that we love Test match cricket. Are the younger generation, are their eyes being drawn to the money of IPL or are they still thinking? You know, one of the great things about Virat, the interview after the win, the final, was about test match cricket and what it meant to him. The young generation still feel that way?

46:18Sadly, I don't think so. I think the fact is that the lure of white ball cricket is a lot more. You've got to understand, as a cricketer, when you play domestic cricket, you earn a certain amount of money. But now every state association has a T20 league. And at times they earn twice what they could make in a domestic season. With that being the case, I don't know how many people will still want to bowl fast. And for 15-18-0s when they can just bowl four overs across alternate days and earn twice the money. So, luckily, the BCCI has a structure where under-14, under-16, under-19, under-23 all have four-day games.

46:51So, you have to play four-day games to come through the grind to play domestic cricket. But if that slowly happens that people from the state can just come and walk into a T20 league and end up playing for the IPL, that's a very, very, it's a thing that could lure a lot of young boys and girls for sure.

47:09Ath:I wanted to ask you about one young England player, actually. We've talked about the pipeline of talent coming around in India. One of the brightest young talents in the English game, although he was born and raised in Barbados, is Jacob Bethel. And he was with you at RCB. He's not yet in this team. Just tell us a little bit about what you saw from Jacob Bethel. And secondly, would you pick him? I'm a bit biased. I would pick him. Where would you bat him? One or three? At three. I think at this point of time, I'd pick him ahead of Oli Pope. But the fact is that if you're an England coach and selector, it's unfair to Pope.

47:48You've got 100 the previous game. But if you look at the long run, it'll be very interesting to see where Bethel and Pope finish. Because I feel, along with Harry Brook, he's probably the big one to watch out for. Harry Brook, everybody says, he started slightly ahead of Bethel. But Bethel is, you can almost bat him anywhere. Three to seven, he's ready. In IPL, we have picked him in such a way that he gives us flexibility to bat. Opening three and even middle of the order, the finisher role, which you don't fancy, but it's a very useful role, which he does quite nicely. But what I really liked about him is his ability to understand, absorb information and quickly transfer it to his game.

48:23Sometimes it takes time with players. He was very good that way, very young, very hungry, and most importantly extremely dedicated towards the sport. He is single-minded and wants to do well in life and become the best. If you have that as your goal, you can't go wrong.

48:36Ath:Ravi, one of the selection issues around the England team at the moment is young Shoaib Bashir Nobody knows spin more than Indian players and a former spinner like yourself What do you see in Shoaib Bashir? And is he a young spinner that you like what you see and you think there's a high ceiling and progression there? Or, given the way it's gone in the last couple of games would you be looking at a spinner who can offer you a bit more with a bat, say, like Liam Dawson? Or, you know, there'll be a number of candidates, Jack Carson at Sussex. Sean Bashir, what do you think? I think it's harsh to judge him on the pitches that we've seen in the first two.

49:19Ath:Plus England, if they're bowling first, that's not easy for a spinner. Plus if they're bowling first, it's not easy. You know, he's got control, he's got a lot of positives going his way. But I think when you play on these pitches in English conditions, I would definitely want a spinner who will give me control and can get me runs, can get me 30-40. There's no question about that. That's why Jadeja is playing for India ahead of Kuldeep. That's why Washington Sundar came into the side for precisely the reason you're asking. If it's a turning track, then the job is to take wickets. Then I'm not bothered about the runs.

49:50It's the batsman's job to get the runs as long as the spinner is giving me four or five wickets in the game. Jadeja, he's not picked too many. Washington Sundar, he's not picked too many. And these are guys who have, you know, like Jadeja has over 300 wickets. So it's very difficult to judge a guy. But you've got to see what your team needs. And England need a spinner who can give them control. Because it's not going to turn here. It's not going to turn square at all, even on day five. So someone who gives you control and someone who can score runs for you.

50:20Nas:Someone we haven't spoken about, Jamie Smith, by the way. Yes. He was incredible that last game. Incredible. And I was in the bar the evening. He got those runs. and Alec, you're on my car. I wasn't paying. No, Alec bought them. Stewie was down there and Stewie texted him and he came down in his England gear and he had a little chat with Stewie and he'd just gone past Alec's record for the leading run getter as a wiki keeper. And as he left, Jamie just said, Jamie Smith, all that stuff I just spoke about, don't get two up and two down. He said, you would not know. And you wouldn't know. You wouldn't know that that day he got under an 84 not out.

50:54Nas:And Alec just says that about him. He just says, if he's had a bad day, he's exactly the same. as he's got under an 84. Alec even said he may bat him up higher up the order eventually in an England shirt. Just as a batter at Surrey growing up, Alec said immediately when he saw Jamie Smith bat, he went, wow. And as DK has often said about wicket-keeping, if we're not talking about his wicket-keeping... He's an efficient keeper, isn't he? He's more than an efficient batter, I tell you. And we're lucky. The Test cricket game has two wicket-keeper batsmen who are box office. But one that keeps his bat in his hand and plays his shot.

51:29Nas:Rishabh Pant and... You really like Rishabh Pant.

51:32Ath:You come alive in the commentary box when he's in. I love DK too. I love DK too, but, you know, he'll think I gave him the flick. I didn't give him the flick. You know, I just got Rishabh in, you know, because, you know, chubby character, you know, unorthodox, you know, can do things differently. And these two guys, captain, vice captain, they're two peas in a pod. They know each other better than anyone. So I remember one day in Sydney, Shubman is very laid back, if he wants to watch, he'll watch. Otherwise, he'll sit back, could take a snooze, do something else, listen to music. But when Rishabh Pant comes to bat, at the back of the Sydney dressing room, he's watching every ball.

52:14So I asked him what? I said, I've never left his batting. It means, this guy's batting, I do not miss one ball. And even if I have to go around the corner for a week, it's in the brick. It's at the end of the overs. Otherwise, I have to watch him back.

52:30Ath:After the game, after the Edgbaston test, England made some comments around the pitch, that it didn't play to expectations. Were they wise to do that? I mean, from my experience in the last few years, nothing winds up Indian supporters more than an England captain or an England pundit talking about a pitch. It's certainly going to wind Sonny Gavaskar up, that's for sure.

52:50Nas:It'll be our fault again. Too many gigs in India or whatever, yeah. Listen, I saw it again on social media, and it's on the back of Rob Key talking about, you know, we're not going to make any silly comments in public and some of the things they've said, they're going to tone it all down. So it was going viral. He did something on BBC with Ebony, I think it was, the interview. And I thought, what's been said now? And I played it, and I actually listened to it, and I went, well, it's not that bad, to be honest. He said it was a bit of a subcontinent pitch, and we were outskilled. This is Ben Stokes, by the way, who said this.

53:22Nas:It was a subcontinent type pitch and we're out skilled by their bowlers. And me and Ravi literally on yesterday at tea, we were still on the same thing, said a similar thing. Why were their seamers getting more out of it than the England seamers? And Ravi said, well, Akash Deep has played a lot of rangy trophy cricket. He knows how to bowl in these pitches. He's got the trajectory. He's skiddy. So actually, when you go into it, you sort of go, I sort of see what he's meaning. But as you say, if you talk about pitches, it's almost like you're making an excuse. The last bit of his line was they outskilled us.

53:54Nas:And that was the big thing out of Edgbaston. We stood out there on top looking down and India's seamers got so much. It was almost like they were playing on a different surface. They got more out of that pitch by a mile than England's seamers.

54:07Ath:Well, we await Sonny's next column. It's the Anderson Tendulkar Trophy. We asked for some questions, actually, on social media. And a few came in. We've only got four minutes left, so I thought I'd ask a couple. How does DK feel about losing out to Ravi Shastri as the best dressed?

54:29Apart from losing the Leeds test, that was the saddest moment.

54:34Ath:How does England stop the unstoppable Shubman Gill? A quick answer. How are we going to get him out?

54:40Nas:Green top. Prepare something for your seamers. Give us the secret. How do we get Shubham Gill out? Green top, get the ball coming back in from fourth stump. Agree, coach? Seeming track, leg before wicket.

54:52Ath:OK. Baz Ball doesn't seem to care about winning. When will they realise they're letting down the fans who pay good money to watch them play? They do care, don't they?

55:01Nas:England captain has the best win percentage since the war, so they must win a few, I reckon. They won one game ago.

55:07Ath:Should India play Bumrah and risk changing a winning combo? that's not a risk it would be foolish not to play him for Nass and others as captains did you have a moment where you felt your batting was on the decline any similarities to Stokes how about for four years but he needs some runs this week it's a big week for him

55:31Nas:there are reasons he has been injured and you lose the rhythm of batting but you can't use that for long he needs some runs desperately

55:37Ath:and finally what is DK's beard routine

55:46Ath:I'm just blessed to have more hair than Nasser

55:51Ath:I think that is a little no we got two or three minutes more so let's turn our attentions to this game I have something for Shubhangil okay you'll never get him out Jeffrey Boycott would say you'll never get him out but Joffre Archer is coming back for England we haven't touched on you need pace can he come back as good as before after a four-year break where he's played one first-class game in four years. He was electrifying here in 2019. It's a very analogous situation, actually. They put out an SOS for somebody to get Steve Smith out. Archer made his debut and it was an electrifying debut. Can he be as good after a four-year break with all the injuries he's had?

56:34What will help him is the pitch. Pitch is extremely important now. When a guy comes after that long a break, you know, subconsciously, he'll be thinking about the injury. If the pitch has some juice in it, that'll keep him interested. It'll keep him bowling. But if it's flat like H-Best and there's not much bounce, you know, then things could be different. So, you need some help in the surface, some pace. I'll also say this. India have won every test where the pitch has been completely in favor of the fast bowlers. Take Perth twice. He was a coach once. Cape Town Everywhere where there's been Exceeding amounts of help To the fast bowlers Indian Pacers have done well as well So there's a I think it's good to Put out a green pitch Which is definitely fair That could trouble But not to the point Where it could Come back to hurt you

57:20Ath:We got 30 seconds I need a prediction from you Both for this test And the series Coach I think India have the momentum England It's for England now The ball is in their court To throw the counter punch Quickly Prediction Scoreline

57:34Nas:2-0 Stick to that 3-1 I went, so I'm not moving from there.

57:38Ath:I'm not moving either. 3-1. Thanks for your time. Thank you.

57:48Nas:Not long now until the return of the football season and this campaign, there'll be even more matches live on Sky Sports. We're going up from 128 to at least 215 live Premier League games. That's 80 % of all televised matches available to watch on Sky Sports. and you'll be able to stay across the latest news and action on our podcasts too. There's the Sky Sports Football Podcast for analysis of the biggest games, the Gary Neville Podcast for Gary's immediate reaction to the key games and Transfer Talk for the latest on the summer deals. Just search for Sky Sports wherever you get your podcasts.

58:36Thank you.