Rob Key chats all things England! Ashes, The Hundred, white-ball sides and more...

24:54Nasser Hussain:I mean, I could make a very good argument to say that given you knew Bethel was going to be in the one day captaining the white ball stuff in Ireland, going to be in your white ball teams coming up and hasn't played any cricket of consequence before this period in August, I could make a very good argument to go and play for Warwickshire in the Metro Bank in the 50-over com. you'll say it's a developmental second 11 comp and i'll say well fine let him go and dominate in that competition rather than walking in with 40 goals can you stop having the argument and giving you my answer as well at the same time i feel that's slightly unfair you're having the argument with yourself as you and me you're saying like i could make a good argument you will then say this it's like how is this even a debate me and that's okay well let's we since we're on beth A couple of questions from me, because I wanted actually to finish the Red Bull stuff off.

25:46But we'll come back to the ashes.

25:50Nasser Hussain:You've given Jacob the keys to the kingdom, captaincy. There'll be a lot of people out there kind of saying, why? What is going on? Give us the rationale and the reasoning for Jacob Bethel captaining in Ireland. What is a weakened and less than full strength team? Yeah, I think at the start of this year or this summer, as myself, we felt like, OK, right. But, you know, how do we, we want to evolve as a team. How do we do that? And we spoke about leadership isn't just the seniority in this. Not just Joe Root, Ben Stokes, people like that. People lead by the way they carry themselves. And you get a core of that team.

26:27And we've got a lot of multi-format players now. In the way that they do things, they show leadership qualities. And you want to build the confidence in that. And that's part of it with Jacob Bethel, really. We very much see him as part of a leadership. It doesn't mean he's going to be the next England captain or anything like that. It just means that in the way that he does things, the way he carries himself, we see leadership qualities in that. And he's someone that you want. You don't want one or two people who are captains almost in your side. You want loads of people. You want the Jacob Bethels to be adding their perspective into every team that they play in.

27:05And that's what you're trying to do. It's basically saying, you know, like, you know, this lad has shown a lot of what we like, not just as a player, but in everything that he does. And he can drive that forward. It'd be a great experience for him. It also, they're like conduits at times to the younger generation coming through. You know, so when I was a captain in County Creek, only at 34 or something, you know, I realized very quickly I had nothing. I couldn't relate to any of these young players coming through. So I started having, you know, trying to learn how to play FIFA and stuff. So I knew how to talk to Billings and Bell Drummond because that's all they spoke about.

27:42Nasser Hussain:You know, I think was at the mental age of an 18 year old. Don't kid yourself. And then I'm throwing the controller at the TV and stuff like that. But, you know, so I just think he'll do it in the Island series. And, you know, he's part of that group that have got to take English cricket forward. The way that they do things, you know, they're the next generation. We want to make sure we've got bloody good cricketers who have the right attitude, the way they do things. I can't stand entitled cricketers, things like that. And you want this next, the Brook era, all of that in white ball cricket. They've got to take English cricket forward.

28:20And Jacob Bethel's a massive part of that. He's been in both the test setup and the white ball setup. He understands how Brendan works, people like that. So that's our thinking behind it.

28:31Nasser Hussain:Just before you dive in, I have one question and then I'll leave it to you. Is there a slight danger or is there a potential danger that because his promotion obviously is outstripping the achievement so far, is there a slight danger that at some point he might say to himself, oh, I'm not sure I deserve this yet? because you do, within yourself, you do feel that you need to deserve what's coming your way. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, only he can answer that. I think that's a very conservative way of looking at things, which is sort of what we do, isn't it? That's what English cricket does. You know, it always looks at the trouble and things like that.

29:15You know, and I just think he's a very good player with a lot of talent And he's going to have tough times like he did when he went out to bat in that series. And you know what? Sometimes you're better for those. It might not be. You don't always pick young players to thrive straight away. You pick them to understand, right, this is what's required. This is the level. This is the standard. You know, you look at someone like Rayan Ahmed, who's a better player now than when we picked him first as an 18-year-old or whatever he was, you know. But they've got ambition as well. You make them feel it's there for them.

29:51If you just, you know, this is what you need to do. And so I don't worry about that. He's no doubt going to have tough times. His career is not going to be defined in the last month anyway. You know, so, you know, I think we'll see a lot of Jacob Bethel over the years. Can we talk Joffre, Joffre Archer? I mean, for the criticism you may or may not get about Jacob Bethel not playing enough, the way you've handled, I know you don't like patting yourself on the back, Rob, but the way you've handled a difficult injury situation and getting him the right amount of overs, you'd have absolutely meticulously looked at his rehab and getting how pleased were you, and Joff should be really, for how he came back in that Test Series and how he's bowling at the moment.

30:33I mean, in the 100, I've done games where he's bowling, that's only 20 balls or whatever, but he's bowling absolute rock. It's got Steve Smith out yesterday. How pleased would you and Joff should be with the way he bowled this summer and been back in that side. I know you were commentating on that. Didn't you think that was one of the great moments of the summer when he came back in and got Jaiswell out in that first over? I thought that was just... At the end of the day, they're the things you remember, I think, when you look back, isn't it? It's moments. You don't really remember lots about what happens in your career, but you just remember great moments, and that was certainly one of them.

31:10And it's been a long road with that. I know people say, well, he needs to play. but this was sort of like two years in the making, really, of planning and working out when's he going to play. Then there's another hiccup right at the end with his finger. And, you know, it's a credit, really, not to me, more the medical team and Neil Killeen, the bowling coach, who sort of manages all those bowlers, where, you know, we're speaking all the time about, right, okay, how do we get him in? And I do think there's a world – we sort of need to change the language. I'm not talking about you guys, just in performance in cricket.

31:44Get it away from workloads and bowlers to not get injured and get it to performance to play and preparing to play and play at your best. Because I don't like the thought, you know, Joffre has lived in this world of if you do this too much, you're going to get injured. And we need to change that now, hopefully. But we're always, always going to have to be smart with him like you are Mark Wood. You know, some guys, Chris Wokes is someone that The more he played in that series, the better he got. You know, Joffre, you just don't have that luxury. You know, none of these things that we talk about, whether it's, you know, do players need to do this?

32:19Do players need to play lots of domestic? You know, the answer is that everyone's different in that. And Joffre is someone who you need to just, you know, keep pushing him along, pull him back, push him along again, then pull him back. You know, same with Mark Wood. You know, whereas other bowlers are different. someone like Tong Atkinson, they need to keep on going at the moment. So when this is all finished, the 100, the white ball, not that they're in that necessarily, then it's a bit of championship cricket and it's just keeping them going so they're able to perform at their best. But yeah, Joffre, he's an X-Factor bowler in every format.

32:59And on the back of that, Rob, what are your plans for the Ashes and warm-up? It is the most important series for an England fan, an Ashes series. History tells you it's a difficult place to go and win. But the one time they did win in 2010-11, they played three proper first-class games. And I think they also played a first-class game between the second and third test. What are your plans to get your side ready, both at the end of this season, because there is some red ball cricket, and obviously leading up to that first test match? How are you going to make sure that the 11 on the field are ready for that test match?

33:37Yeah, I mean, the good thing is you sort of would probably, you know, everyone is probably not unrealistic to think most people could pick that Ashes squad now. It's been building for a while, you know, and it's a mixture of everything, really. The White Bull series out in New Zealand is going to be really important. You know, I don't want to be in a position where we're just, you know, we're not paying attention to White Bull cricket. because of the schedule over the last few years. We've seen what's happened to us. When we've had to go in to white ball cricket with lesser teams because of the test team being somewhere else and that taking priority, that's hurt our white ball cricket.

34:12We're in a new era of that. And I also think that the closest formats now are 50 over in test, in my opinion. And when you talk about meaningful, tough, hard cricket, that's going to be tough out in New Zealand. you know so the majority of our players bar probably five or six max you think who are test only cricketers now they'll be out there in new zealand they'll be starting to prepare by trying to go out there and win that series against new zealand so they're out there they're getting used to it then there's about probably five days between that and when they get to australia then there's i think they get to australia those guys the multi-format guys about the ninth or 10th then the test match starts on the 20th all right so you don't have the chance to go and play three or four tour matches like you did back then when they could have a big long run into it the guys that aren't that the test only guys as it are they'll be out with the lions probably from about the 3rd of november something like that they'll be playing practicing doing as much as they can out there with those lions players we'll have a game against the lions as well which we can control as much of that as possible.

35:23And they'll be out there getting ready for it that way. That's just a sign really of how the game, how you prepare these days. It's a very different time to what it was when they came out there back then.

35:36Nasser Hussain:There's two sides to when you play an opposition like Australia. Obviously, it's getting yourself sorted and ready and making sure all your players are fit and ready to go. The other side of it is what they're doing. I mean, presumably, you have to keep half an eye on your opposition. Australia have been playing this summer, test matches in the Caribbean and white ball stuff, obviously, up in the Northern Territories. Whose job is that within your setup? Because obviously, Stokes and McCollum, they're right in the middle of a five-match series and they've got to concentrate on what they're doing.

36:09Nasser Hussain:Whose job is it to have a look at Australia's top three and how they're getting out in the Caribbean, that kind of thing, as your team is in a very important test series of its own. Whose job is that? Yeah, same with everything. We've got myself, Luke Wright, who provide the perspective from out of that dressing room, writing in particular across County Creek. You've got a whole scouting network. We've got Stafford Murray, who's brilliant. We've sort of, I think, supercharged our analytics a little bit, where we've partnered with a company that can really, that have the capacity to do so much more than what we do you know it's very much their job they can start looking into it so you've got a whole team of people that would have looked at the border gavisgar series in particular and what's happening there we've got a whole lit load of stuff that you look at and you know we start building into that really you know it's that mixture of you know making sure you're across what you're doing and just being prepared and but not getting too married to a position that you just think right this is exactly what it's going to be like so it's like all the stuff we do really there's there's so many people that don't get any recognition the informing i like it's a bit like i say you know because we we told the story of the show bashear one with the whatsapp group and stokes yeah he puts it on our whatsapp but then there's a whole team of people that will go and they'll monitor and they'll watch he then goes out to the lions before out in abu dhabi for a month and almost like the apprentice you know like he's doing almost like a bowl out against five or six other spinners out there and we're watching and monitoring everything they do at times so it's the same thing there's so many people that are adding to what we do and it's so important i really stafford and ed barney who's the performance director have brought a different perspective in they've been outstanding because they see because they're from other sports as well they can bring the best of what other sports have been doing so we've got a whole team of people looking into lots of different things on there and the million dollar question me and af don't know the answer results tell you that what is the key to winning in australia i know you i know you text me the other day saying stop waffling on about the cookbook ball doing more in australia but steve smith has said that recently it's been hard work batting in the top order.

38:31A top order batter would say that. Ricky Ponting said that recently as well. The type of cricket has changed recently. But from what you're hearing and your experience of Australia, what is going to be the key in those five Ashes tests? Is it just what it's always been in cricket or is there some areas you're looking at? You just score more runs in the opposition and take more with it. As I was halfway through that question, I knew you were just going to give a bland answer. but what but what my point was when i listen occasionally to your podcast not like chris martin who listens every day i mean fella needs to get a life but you know like every city you think it's so clever it's every bowler whoever you get on you know it's doing more in australia with the kookaburra ball it's like well done that's your what af does all the legwork ask all the questions as the link to the start and everything you just sit there and go can i ask you about Joffrey and the kookaburra balls do.

39:28Nasser Hussain:Let's move on. White ball stuff coming up. We've chatted about Jacob Bethel enough, but can I ask you about a few people who are not there? It's often the people who are not there that are interesting conversations. So no Curran, no Livingston, no Jordan Cox in your white ball squads. Yeah, probably two not in the same bracket, you'd say. Curran and Livingston have had a go a bit more than, you know, they had a good crack for a couple of years. They're certainly not out of it. No one's out of it, really. I saw something that Livy said the other day that he's not heard anything since being dropped.

40:05I don't know if he's got a phone, if he's allowed to ring. You know, he's 32 years of age. It's not hard. You know, if you want to find out where you are, you've got my number, mate. You know, and he's playing well.

40:17Nasser Hussain:There'll be 400 professional cricketers now ringing you up tomorrow. tomorrow. That's what happened last time. Do you remember when I said in the press conference about Alex Howes, I really respected the fact he rang me and asked me why he wasn't there. I then had 20 phone calls. Anyway, Sam Curran, Sam Curran's one of those that actually in the role that he plays in franchise cricket, we've probably not been able to get him in. Where someone that, if you can get into that top six and a player's a batter, then he's a really handy cricketer where he's been at seven or eight you know is not probably his strongest role so it's for sam really to force his way in into that top six and offer that option with the ball livy just got to play the way he has done in the hundred this year you know that's been brilliant to see and i get it it's not easy when you're playing in that number six role and you lose your rhythm and stuff like that but the truth is you know runs are your currency in that game uh but he's a fantastic cricketer and you just want someone like liam livingston around he just needs to find that consistency doesn't need to ring me now there you go and then um jordan cox is very very much on the he's on the up you know he's different he's not had much of a go and it's just i suppose what we want is that consistency you know remember like every team does better when you sort of know your role and where you are and that top seven pretty much in white ball cricket whether it's t20 there's obviously a change in 50 over when root comes in and joss goes to five in that um you know that's a pretty stable side at the moment for us for those guys to force their way into that and like anything things can happen quickly in cricket you know someone breaks a finger um you know and you find yourself you take your opportunity but that's the sort of reasoning behind those guys

42:18The Sunday Supplement Podcast is back for the new Premier League season.

42:25I'm Dharmesh Sheff and with the help of some of the UK's top journalists, we'll go beyond the headlines to unpick the biggest sporting stories of the week. Join me every Sunday morning, live on Sky Sports News between 9 and 11, with the podcast dropping as soon as we come off air. So what are you waiting for? Give Sunday Supplement a follow wherever you get your podcasts and I'll see you on Sunday mornings.

42:59Are you managing to find that balance between white ball and red ball and attention? I mean, you've been critical of yourself after the World Cup in India that you said that maybe you hadn't quite focused because you've had to give him so much attention to Red Bull cricket. I think Brendan himself said when Joss stood down as captain, maybe we've not always given Joss the team that he wants with a World T20 coming up in India and Sri Lanka in February, March, and an Ashes before that. Are you managing to make sure you're going to give Harry Brook the best opportunity to be successful in that tournament?

43:34It's quite a difficult balancing act, isn't it? yeah that is that that's i mean when i sit here now i'm looking at the winter as a whole you know we very quickly as soon as that the last ball was bowled and siraj got the wicket i sort of move on very quickly the other lads go to the hundred or whatever i'm like right okay what's next you know and it's going to be it's going to be a real juggling act but as i said a little while ago you want to make sure that harry brooke in this new era has his best team as much as he possibly can it's so exciting what that side can do as well and they're very much his peers and people that you know a core of the team that have grown up together in that but it's going to be tough you know so it's the bowlers that are always the tricky thing and it's probably more the mental side for the batters from playing too much because we'll go the ashes will finish around you know they'll get home around the 10th of January.

44:33And then we've got an ODI in Sri Lanka on the 22nd of January. So there's so much cricket to come for those guys. So it's not, hopefully we're doing it better. I mean, the poor old Joss, not only did he not have his best team because of the schedule and me choosing test cricket over white ball cricket. You know, he played a lot in the subcontinent as well, which is somewhere where even in the past England teams, full strength of struggle. so we've really tried i've tried we're trying to make love bro don't laugh like into a place where people really want you know to offer them something players in our setup something that you know they they can't get in the county game so we've trying to run these spin camps we've had kumar sangakara come down and start working with whether it's emilio gay people like that some of our younger players some of the main side will be able to go and do that get the spinners but rough up the pitches.

45:28So we're trying everything we can because the truth is they're not going to get in those conditions unless you play at Trent Bridge in the 100 or unless you – until we get to Sri Lanka, you know. So we've got to start upskilling ourselves quickly for that.

45:44Nasser Hussain:Before we let you go, a final question from me, Ifama. You get judged over the three formats, obviously, test cricket, big series like the Ashes and the Indies series that we've just seen and the World Test Championship, 50-over cricket World Cup and T20 World Cups, which are coming up over the next couple of years. In our domestic setup, the 50-over competition, which now gets played under the 100, is essentially a developmental, come-hybrid, first-11, second-11 competition for obvious reasons. And your primary short-form competition is 100 balls, not T20. Do you have a view on whether the 100 should become T20?

46:29Nasser Hussain:My point being that if you're two white ball competitions that will produce your players for what you get judged on, if they're not really strong domestic competitions in the format that you're going to be judged on, is that a problem for you down the line? Do you know what, Ath? After the first year when we had the Strauss review and all of that stuff I saw said you know what I'm just going to do this whatever whether whatever domestic cricket is it is and then we're just going to try and make sure we're doing the very best we can to win a few games for England really so you know I like the hundred you know like if you ask me I sort of look at it I mean I was there last night with my family the fact it finishes at nine o 'clock's massive for us you know like you get back to Canterbury or 11 o 'clock, you know, all those things.

47:20I do think there's an interesting thing with the 100. I quite like the 100 balls. I do think whether or not the sort of 10 ball ends, you know, I'm getting into this as a batter now, you know, like whether that just makes it harder, you know, where all of a sudden the power plays are so important in white ball cricket and, you know, like you're batting, you lose a wicket, then all of a sudden 10 balls are gone quickly where they keep a guy going on. whether that hinders or changes the complexion of short-form cricket. And you'd be more entertaining almost if you went to just, right, five balls, change ends, five balls.

47:56You know as a batter, right, this is the power play. Whack, I'm hitting it. But as far as like, you know, the Metro Bank, as you say, we see some – I just love seeing young players play. It's the other thing with the 100. They're not married to the county sort of stalwart. who, well, we've got to pick him because he's one of our senior players. It's like, no, no, Sonny Baker, you can open the bowl in now. You know, Tom Laws, you're playing. Ben McKinney, you open the bat in here. They're not sort of, there's no history in that for these coaches. So that, for us, that's brilliant. We've seen so many of those Lions cricketers, they've been with Freddie and Ed, that we've really seen thrive over the winters and stuff, really coming to the fore in the 100.

48:41So I love all of that. um you know i do think that the county structure system it could be the best it could be the best thing ever it could be a system that that you we're just the standard is so good the pitch is everything it mirrors international cricket so well that you can just go well he's top of the averages bring him in because you know that's as close to international cricket as possible it's not that at the moment but good luck to who's got to try and sort that out yeah well that's 45

49:11Nasser Hussain:minutes in and I think that's about our level for today but thank you very much for coming on. About as much of Rob Key as our listeners. I've got one for you, just stop, just stop. Oh my God, he's coming back at us now. We asked the questions. No, no, no, I've got name me three Coldplay songs. Thanks for joining us Rob, it's been a pleasure. You are. No, we do appreciate you coming on Thanks for your time Which celeb are you promising us for the next 100 game, Nass? Who's going to drop into the pod? Who's on your phone contact list that you're promising us next game? I think we might have a bit of Oasis going on, to be honest I put out so many messages in the summer on commentary That I'd love an Oasis ticket So maybe one of the Gallagher brothers will come on So it's got to be better than Key, surely Yeah, supersonic, fantastic Rob, great to talk to you as ever Keezy, enjoy your holiday Keezy, thanks for coming on mate Nassau, always good to have Rob with us, I mean he's Pretty relaxed character isn't he It's quite a high pressure job that he's got And you always get the sense that he takes That in his stride which I suspect Is a good thing And probably kind of Transmits to those around him You don't want somebody highly stressed and grumpy all the time, I wouldn't have thought.

50:41No. I mean, what strikes me every time you speak to Rob Key or Brendan McCullum or Ben Stokes about this regime is that they are true to their word, and they don't do things just because it would look less bad, if you know what I mean. They don't do things because that's what you're supposed to do. Like, if they do go and only play one warm-up game against the Lions and then lose the Ashes, you know what everyone will say. I mean, I had breakfast with Graham Gooch before the Lord's Test, and he couldn't believe that England were just going to play against the Lions. He was on that 2010-11 where they played three first-class games.

51:16And so if they lose the Ashes, everyone's going to be saying, well, the one time they won the Ashes in Australia was when it was 2010-11 and they played three warm-up games. And my point being is that as with Jacob Bethel, as with the white ball selection, as with test match selection. He seems to do things. He sticks to his principles is the point that I'm making. He doesn't sway with the breeze and the wind and think, right, this is what we should do. I like his honesty, and this is the direction we're going in. And it's a sort of new way of thinking. He goes against the grain of what sometimes old fogies like me and you would do, what's been done in the past.

51:57He's trying to do things differently. and your point was an excellent one about selection in general, they get selection right. So I do think that they're doing a lot of things right, but I do also think we should pick them up on times where maybe, you know, Jacob Bethel did look very frenetic in that test match and your point was a valid one that he needs to play more red ball cricket. I don't know how you see it.

52:25Nasser Hussain:Yeah, I mean, the scheduling is tricky. and creates anomalies in the way that it didn't do 10, 20 years ago. And Jacob Bethel finds himself in that position now, whereas a fit and hungry 21-year-old, he's played precious little cricket of consequence. So far this year, he'll get plenty of cricket, and I'm sure he'll come through. But I do believe still, and I don't think it's a completely old-fashioned thing to say that you learn the art of run scoring by playing, and therefore at that age and stage you do need to play. I think this selection panel actually are doing more to kind of reorder how domestic cricket is viewed and seen than perhaps any selection panel that I've seen in the time that I've been involved or following the game.

53:17Nasser Hussain:In particular, an emphasis on pace, an emphasis on talent and promise. so they're they're very i mean it's a very interesting time you know since they've been together since 2022 when they all came together i think i've been more interested by a lot of the things they're doing and the people they're picking than you know maybe the previous 10 years and they're not going to get everything right but they've got more right than wrong as the results particularly in test cricket of late um would suggest and his and his point on the 100 was a valid one about players being played a bit more um like sonny baker and also you do find out about people because the standard of the comp is is much higher um than than some domestic cricket that you do find out you know you can't bully joffra archer uh and if you do find a bowler that's as sonny baker did that spell it was only six ball five balls correct me sorry to david warner you do find out a little bit in white ball cricket about some of these young guns that are coming through so i like i say i do like the fact that and it reminds me a bit about like duncan when i worked with duncan fletcher in selection meetings duncan was so adamant that this is the direction we're going in he didn't listen to out outside noise about you know slightly medium dobbers coming in and getting a load of wickets he was just fascinated in what pace they bowl and it led to that because he was so stubborn and so this is the direction and coming from the outside i think that helped that this is the direction we're going in and it led to that 2005 ashes bowling attack it's one thing i like about this present regime they will not be swayed and they will get it wrong as you say i mean josh hullah sort of appeared and then disappeared and you can you can have examples of people that didn't quite they didn't quite get right but i do like the fact that they're sticking to their guns and they will be judged however much Rob Key and Ben Stokes and whoever says they won't be they will be judged by those five test matches in Australia if they go out there and win if it's a massive win because England's record since 2010 11 and before 2010 11 has been abysmal not just it's not even been close it's not like being the Ashley series in England which have been close they've not been close in Australia if they go out and win, that is the end.

55:47That is a successful basball regime of Stokes, McCollum and keep. But we all know that's hard work.

55:56Nasser Hussain:Yeah, and judged on those three formats really as well, World Cups in 50 over and 20 over cricket, which was the point I was making about the domestic competitions really. Maybe that's a debate for next week's pod or the week after because that seems to me. We're in a funny period in the 100, aren't we? It's a kind of holding pattern before the new owners come in next year and they've got some big decisions to make. And I think the first big decision, the principal decision, is what format it's going to be. Is it going to be 100 balls or T20? Maybe we can debate that for a future pod and have the pros and cons.

56:33Nasser Hussain:Anyway, enough from us. Enough is enough, Michael. Enough is enough. I'll see you at Leeds on Saturday and we'll speak on this podcast next week when you can get your next celebrity promise for us. I'll get us some of my Oasis tickets, mate. Me and you, we'll go.