The Ashes Daily: Nas, Ath and Broad react to England's defeat in the second Test, to go 2-0 down in the Ashes

0:00Last start that is from Crawley. Chris Wilkes nails it for four. The Ash is alive and Test cricket alive. Ice in his veins.

0:09Nasser Hussain:Pat Cummins has led his team to a famous victory. Yeah, he's got it! He gets his very top ending. England's captain Ben Stokes, while he is there, England have hope. Put the beer away, put the champagne on ice. 24 years of pain in Australia. Finally, they're beaten at home by England. Michael, as we sit here, the presentation is just finishing with East Sugar. England 2-0 down. Let's start today. Were your hopes and your spirits raised at all, or was it too little too late for you? Well, it was too little too late in the sense that England have lost by eight wickets and they've gone 2-0 down. So Australia have got one hand on the ashes already after just six days competitive cricket.

0:55Nasser Hussain:You know, students of history would know that only one team has come back from 2-0 down to win any five-match series, actually, which was Bradman's team way back in the 30s. So it just doesn't happen very often. So hugely dispiriting, hugely disappointing, the more so because it doesn't feel like a vintage Australian team. But they do seem at the moment capable of playing tougher cricket for longer or more disciplined cricket for longer than England. So that's really disappointing. However, today there were encouraging signs from Ben Stokes and Will Jacks. You know, after last night, I'm sure a lot of people came to the Gabba, Australian supporters, expecting a bit of a capitulation.

1:37Nasser Hussain:but it wasn't that at all and I thought Stokes and Jacks played really responsibly and really ably that partnership I think it's the longest of the series isn't it stretched through more than three hours in the end and got England ahead or forcing Australia to bat again and in that partnership you know that was a kind of rebuke really to what had gone on last night with Crawley and Pope and the shot of Harry Brook in the first innings. And they had too much to do because of all the mistakes earlier in the game. But at least those two can certainly hold their heads high. I thought Will Jacks has probably played himself into the next test in Adelaide, looking at how, you know, Shoaib Bashir has gone in that Lions game at Allen Border Field.

2:22Nasser Hussain:And I thought he played pretty well today. England fans will say watching Jacks and Stokes bat like that, proper test match batting leaving the ball outside the off stump only driving when it's right underneath them why don't they do that more often and I think that the real issue here is the running into danger bit that we keep hearing from McCullum and others is that last night when it's doing more England seemed to want to play more shots is that just they can't rely and don't rely on that their technique are they a bit frenetic because it is doing a bit more why don't they Me and you, when it's doing a lot like last night, would be trying to defend and survive.

3:02Why are they playing more shots when it's zipping around like that?

3:06Nasser Hussain:Well, I think one or two of them don't trust their defence. You know, Zach Crawley is a very aggressive opener who will have his days, but I don't think he really trusts his defence to be able to play like that, although he's played pretty well in this game. but I just think England should look at that and there are times in Australia where you have to fight hard to earn the right to be attacking and aggressive and that is not being defensive at all and I do not want England to see England go back to being a defensive team who go into their shell, who won't chase targets, who won't try and attack the opposition.

3:51Nasser Hussain:I think having that as your fundamental ethos is fine. You know, all the best teams that I've seen in the history of the game look to put pressure on the opposition and look to attack. But it is not a sign of weakness to have to occasionally earn that right. And especially on Australia, when there's a bit more bounce in the pitches, you have to earn that right. And I just think the batters can look at that from Stokes and Jacks today. I mean, in a funny way, in an ironical way, it was some of the most high-class test cricket that we've seen in the series so far this morning, with Australia very, very disciplined with their lines, England really disciplined with the bat.

4:32Nasser Hussain:There were only 59 runs in 24 overs with no wickets. It was kind of very old-fashioned scoreboard cricket, but the cricket, I thought, was of high-class quality this morning. But it also shows that if you can bat like that, make Australia work hard for their wickets, They start to think, if this hadn't been a pink ball test, they didn't have Lyon. Well, Lyon was running drinks with that orange bib on. Travis Head, Manus Labashain, asking the bowlers to keep coming back for a second, third, fourth spell. Mitchell start finally looking a bit less effective. The template is there. And I repeat, it's not about being negative or defensive.

5:12Nasser Hussain:it's just about occasionally respecting both the conditions and the situation to earn the right to put your foot down and well done to Ben Stokes and Will Jacks on that partnership it proved to be too little too late I mean you know it was a collapse in the end and shortly afterwards Gus Atkinson you know hold out to that one man at midwicket it's a guy with a test match 100 and you just felt if England could have scrambled together there are another 100, 150. And if you put the Brook dismissal, the Pope and Crawley dismissal, all the wayward bowling and the drop catches, there's 150 runs easily.

5:51Nasser Hussain:And then you look how Archer and Atkinson were bowling under lights here. And that could have been, should have been a tough little ask for Australia. There's a sort of perception with this England side that they'll just carry on playing the way they are. Stokes just said at their presentation with Ishigua there, we've had some words in the dressing room. I'm not going to tell you what they are. so what should those words be how should you react to the repetitive nature i think that's what's winding england fans up sides come to australia and lose it's the repetitive nature of dismissals etc it's the drop catches it's the bowling performance that they put in in the first innings what should those conversations be or is coaching gone out the window you're a facilitator you know yesterday marcus i think gave an interview saying is it is what it is and we haven't discussed driving the ball on the up you know we've had some great coaches who would have just discussed that what are you going to do in that situation next two things to say there what coaches say publicly and what they say privately are two very different things as you know you often tread a fine line between trying to be honest and open and trying to protect confidences or whatever in the dressing room so what mark has said publicly is not necessarily what has happened privately.

7:05Nasser Hussain:With the batters, I would simply sit down with somebody like Zach Crawley and talk about driving on the rise against the new ball here. Same with Ollie Pope. Those are two big areas for those two, I think, just to be a little bit more circumspect to balls that are not full half volleys. And with Harry Brook, you know, there are situations that he's got himself into where he's right on top and I would just say in those situations hammer the advantage home. He's too good a player to get out like he got out to Mitchell Stark at that particular crucial juncture in the first innings. His is a combination of technical and mental.

7:50I guess all three of them are. We touched on Ollie Pope's bat swing, Zach Crawley playing out in front and there is a combination when you're under pressure, your technical weaknesses come out to the fore. That's when it happens. with Harry, his foot doesn't go across. Now, I'm not sure that's something you can change in the middle of a test series, Asher series, especially when you haven't got any games in between. So you're going to have to do it in the nets. Because if you do that, that can lead to other areas. I'd be very wary about making technical changes. So what it has to be is a mental, if it's out there and it's not really right underneath me, I'm going to have to leave it in this series.

8:26Nasser Hussain:And as we mentioned in the review of the first day, just talk through that situation. You know that Smith has held back Stark for an hour. Why has he brought him back at that particular opportunity at six o 'clock just as the lights are coming in? The old boycott thing about add a wicket or two to the score. What does it look like then? Stokes is coming in at dusk against the bowler that's got him out 10 or 11 times. All those kind of things ought to be. Are they thinking that? That's what England fans leaving here today. I think they're leaving thinking in this England side don't think. Well, that's my point, that you sit down and talk to him because to my mind, as somebody who played a lot of cricket and you were the same, those would be the kind of things that would automatically be going through your head.

9:13You'd be computing all that kind of stuff

9:16Nasser Hussain:in the general circumstances of the game and that then dictates how you play. The circumstances and conditions dictate how you play. occasionally if everything's in your favour you dictate to the circumstances of the conditions but sometimes you know you have to put your ego away and just say okay it's just not my time at the moment tough question and we touched on it last night Jacob Bethel got 71 today are you playing him in the next game I mean you could move jacks up to three and I wouldn't move jacks I don't know was that from Michael Vaughan or something yesterday I wouldn't do that at all I would not be against Bethel for Pope I would not be against Bethel for Pope for two reasons one he's just got some runs 70 B he looked pretty good in New Zealand at three when he did play C he does bowl some left arm spin as well and we're going to Adelaide which tends in a day game to favour a bit of spin and if you're going to play Jacks instead of Bashir you know you've got a kind of I don't know you're not talking Embiurian Edmonds here, but you know what I mean.

10:26Nasser Hussain:It's balances aside. So without giving a definitive, I'd have to sit and think on it a bit. I wouldn't be against it right now. But again, to go back to a point we've made ad nauseam, I'd be a whole lot more comfortable if he'd spent the summer playing cricket and got a bit more experience under his belt, as he should have done, and we're not talking in hindsight. Why wouldn't you back Jacks at three? I'm not saying I would, by the way. Just because he's done well here in this position. Yes, and I thought if there was a couple of moments, he looked a bit iffy against the short ball. And after, you know, it's just his third Test match, he's done pretty well at seven.

11:04Nasser Hussain:I'm just not for, OK, go up to three. I thought he did pretty well there. But, you know, I'm happy with that kind of position in the lower middle order. And the bowling, how can they go from being so good, different pitch, did a bit in Perth, a lot, to being so good to being so bad. You wrote it as the worst performance as a bowling unit under Baswell. Stuart Broad has said he goes back longer than that. He can't. He would go back before he played, no doubt. How does that happen? I don't know is the answer. The worry is that, in a way, the first innings at Perth might be the anomaly because everything we've seen since has not been as good.

11:44Nasser Hussain:Let's hope it's not. They've got a long time now before the Adelaide Test, So it's almost impossible here to pick what bowling attack they're going to go in with because you've got to wait and see on his Mark Wood fit. He's got a massive strapping on his left leg. It doesn't look great. Josh Tong, I know that they fancy maybe they will freshen things up and bring him in. You know, what's the pitch going to be like? Who knows? There's so many different variables. But the one certainty is they've got to bowl better. I think they go to the short pitch ploy too soon and too frequently. everything I've seen here in Australia and indeed, you know, Australia's bowlers showed the way says that you're looking to get wickets in a kind of normal mode.

12:29Nasser Hussain:You start by attacking tight to off stump. When the ball goes a bit older, you might push your line slightly to fourth or fifth stump. But more often than not, you're trying to pitch a proper length, if you like, and very occasionally going to that short stuff. I think we go to the short stuff a bit too frequently, almost as a get out because we're not accurate enough. We've got to get back to being disciplined and accurate. And the bowling coach, you know, I look at David Saker and I think back to he was bowling coach here when Andrew Strauss won the Ashes in 2010-11. And this is a different type of attack, obviously, but that attack was so disciplined.

13:10Nasser Hussain:And I think we've got to try and drum into this attack. They won't be as disciplined as that, the Strauss team, but they can be more disciplined than they were here, for sure. You were a player. You're now a broadcaster. You're also a journalist. You know the way journalism works when you go 2-0 down or about to go 2-0 down. Everything comes under the microscope. You know, Joffre strolling in with a pillow under his arm comes under the microscope. His speeds, and then he rocks up and bowls 149 clicks tonight. Is that just a fact of when you're winning and you're Joffre Archer and you're bowling at the speed of light, that body language, it's, oh, wow, it's Joff.

13:47And when you're not winning, that body language, come on, Joff, don't come in with a pillow. What do you do about that?

13:52Nasser Hussain:I have no problems with Joffre Archer walking in with a pillow. But it is, as you say, the kind of silly season story that has legs when a team is not winning. Obviously, England are now planning to go to Noosa for three days. And I have no problems with that either. That was part of the itinerary. That's what was planned in advance. And there's no reason why after a test match, you shouldn't have a couple of days to wind down. I would just be careful what they get up to in Noosa and, you know, be sensible. That's obvious. And then get to Adelaide on Saturday or whenever it is and absolutely refocus and work as hard as they can to improve.

14:36Nasser Hussain:They've got to improve. Go back to what we said at the start. This is not a vintage Australian team. And that is the real disappointment, that this Australian team so far has played tougher, more capable and better cricket. But it's not a great Australian team. It's not, but we're sat in one of the corporate boxes here, which would have been full of Australians an hour or so ago. They might turn to you and say, same old England. We've seen this sort of England for the last however many years. Is it the same old England? Well, on the evidence so far, they've come up short. They've come up very short.

15:12Nasser Hussain:They've got whacked in two days at Perth. They've got whacked in four here at Brisbane. They're going to beat your record probably for the number of days in which the Ashes have lost. I'm 11. You're 11 now. I mean, they've got to take Adelaide to the fifth day for your record to be intact. I'm quite proud of that record, to be honest. I shouldn't be, but I quite have. So all you can say is on the evidence so far, England have come up well short. I think we've both seen enough of this England team over the last three years to know that they can be a whole lot better. And if they are, you know, they can still create opportunities against this Australian team.

15:49Nasser Hussain:But they've got to play better. They've got to hold their catches. One thing we haven't touched on is Australia's out cricket in this game. Alex Carey was absolutely fantastic behind the stumps. And the two catches that broke open the partnership today, Smith's catch, you won't see a better slip catch than that. Blinded by Carey up to the stumps, diving away low to his left. Then Carey's catch off Stokes up to the stumps. He was the beating heart of a brilliant performance in the field from Australia. You've got Inglis' run out, Carey's running catch, Labashane's diving catch, Smith and Carey today.

16:24Nasser Hussain:They missed nothing in the field. How many catches did we put down? Five. and then bowling loosely, giving wickets away. They're kind of basic fundamentals that a good test match team don't get wrong that frequently and England have got to put them right. Sides we played in out here, there was a slow case of mental disintegration. I had to be very careful of that when I was captain. We'd be 20 for two and you'd look around the dressing room and some players would be like, oh, here we go again. Do you see that in this side? How do you make sure that that doesn't happen, that they go into this downward spiral?

17:00They'll go back to the hotel tonight. They'll get abuse from everyone. They'll go on a flight tomorrow. You have to wait. It's not like in India, the Indian cricketers get whisked away. Here you have to sit around like normal human beings and you'll get abuse. How do you make sure the mental disintegration doesn't get to you?

17:16Nasser Hussain:I think that's where the leadership is so important. And I get the sense that England are excellent in that regard. I don't think that Brendan McCollum is going to be swayed by public criticism or media reaction, nor should he be. England should obviously be swayed by their shortcomings on the pitch and try and put them right. But I don't think they need to get swayed by a lot of the noise that will happen now. And the most important thing today was to see Stokes back for three hours. His determination and his resolve shows that he's still up for the fight. and if your captain is and your coach holds his nerve, then I think that's a pretty good starting point to answer your question.

18:00Well, thanks, Ath England. 2-0 down after six days of Ashes cricket. Some of the Aussie family are playing on the outfield. The England fans just making their way back into Brisbane. We're going to take a short break in this pod. After that break, we're going to hear from Stuart Broad.

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19:11Stuart, thanks for joining us on the pod again. Let's cut straight to the chase. What did you make of that England performance in this Test match? It was a tough watch, to be honest. I like the fact that Ben Stokes and Will Jack showed a lot of grit and fight. And ultimately, Ben Stokes would have wanted to do that to show his team that he could do that. But also to show the fans and to show people back home that their mindset is fully in this. I thought yesterday's performance, day three's performance of bowling at the tail and then coming out and losing six wickets in one session under the lights was one of the most deflating days I've actually watched for a long time.

19:49And bear in mind, that's taking in my mindset from day two of Perth, which was an absolute shocker. But having no tactical plan to try and get rid of the tail enders, being so obvious what Mitchell Stark was trying to do in a brilliant way. Credit to Australia, everything they did. but the way Mitchell Steyer was just playing the time, getting his team nearer the twilight period so they have a brand new ball. I was watching it and this is so predictable. England had no way of changing the style of the rhythm of the game and as soon as Australia got their opportunity with the ball under lights, we went through that little period that we've seen at the Gabba for many years of where the crowd are banging the seats, the Aussies are really up and it looks like every England batter that comes to the crease has got no way to stem the flow of momentum.

20:39So, you know, I think when I reflect on these two test matches, what's my overriding feeling? Missed opportunities in both games. And it's only getting harder because the Australians are going to get stronger. Let's start with a couple of positives. There's not that many. A welcome return to form from Zach Crawley. Having bagged a pair, then you're coming up against Mitchell Stark again to show that sort of mental toughness that he did show, especially in the first innings. A bit of a soft dismissal in the second innings, but it was nice for him because they have stuck with him and persevered with him for this tour.

21:17They expect him to get runs out here. Absolutely, yeah. I actually was thinking of him day one when the toss goes up and Ben Stokes wins the toss and bats. He was probably the only person in the whole stadium who didn't want a bat at that particular time and wasn't happy Ben Stokes had won the toss. so showed great mental strength to not just get through that first over but to then to go on and get a really finely played 70 odd he'll be very disappointed with his dismissal in the 40s caught and bowled having just lost ollie pope in the same way in the second innings and that one for 90 or 90 for one as we'd say england were going nicely were getting themselves in a position where they might get parity with only one wicket down and then to lose those two felt like it drain the energy out the batting group and you've been in changing rooms when you see two softest missiles back to back the the rooms go oh you know the bowlers have just worked really hard for as long as they're not making any inroads and we chipped two back at 127 clicks uh half follies and and uh that that sense that would have sent a a real different emotion back to the changing room but ultimately is that crawley can look at this test match individually and go i've had a good test match and the biggest positive the one thing that would have made England fans smile was their finest player their finest batter ever in Joe getting that hundred getting that monkey off his back and the celebration almost like what's the fuss all about I knew I could do this yeah it was great to see and you know what there was a moment when he brought up his three figures and you expect the Barmy army to be fully up and celebrating with Joe as the England players were But the whole of the Gabba rose because one thing about Australia, they respect greatness.

23:03They respect players that stand up. They respect players that are able to do something against their team. And the whole of the Gabba stood up and appreciated what Joe Root had done that day. He was the only batter that looked comfortable outside of Zach Crawley on that surface on day one. He controlled his emotions brilliantly to get a fine hundred. And, you know, ultimately, Joe, he's got that many hundreds. He's got his 40th Test Match 100. He wouldn't be that bothered if he finished his career without a Test 100 in Australia. You know, it's not a definition of him. He's already our greatest ever Test Match batter.

23:38But it's just a nice tick in the box that he won't have to answer questions ever again about. That's it with the positives, I'm afraid. I mean, you mentioned the Jackson... Oh, it's a good catch. Yeah, the Jackson-Stokes partnership and the Jacks catch, which was brilliant. Let's analyse some other areas of this game. I said England have been out-batted, out-bowled, out-fielded, out-thought in all those departments. Do you agree? Yes, I do. And I think the strategy has been quite obvious from Australia. And there's maybe something in that in the fact that they play shield pink ball games and they play one, if not two, pink ball test matches a year.

24:16England don't do any in county championship or any in England in test match cricket. So there's certainly been a golf of experience of how to utilize the pink ball when it gets older, how to play for the nighttime. I think of someone like a Jamie Smith who's never played a pink ball game anywhere, even a practice game, who comes out at dark to face Mitchell Stark with his tail up and the gabber all whacking the seats and the pressure of it. And this ball comes down reflecting the floodlights that you've never seen before. and it comes down like a comet and you don't get any clues of what the team's doing, of course he's going to get out.

24:52So do you think he should have gone and played in Canberra and kept and batted? Because it was a team decision not to go. But I put this to Ollie Pope the other day. Can't an individual go up to the coach and say, I've not played pink ball cricket. I need to go and play that game. I don't think any player should be playing the first experience of a pink ball in an Ashes Test match. I think that's a number one rule. wherever you get that pink ball experience, I don't care if that has to be the week before at Canberra. You can't be facing Mitchell Stark under the light, being your first ever ball, seeing a pink ball in the pressure.