The Ashes: First Test review with Stuart Broad, who takes us inside the England dressing room after their two-day defeat!

20:25Ath:Famously, Chris Silverwood made the batters at Adelaide on the last Ashes tour sit through videos of what went wrong. I mean, it doesn't seem to me that there's much chance of that repeating itself. But I think that they'll want more commitment in that period. It didn't feel like a very clear, committed little period of cricket from England, did it? You know, even when you talk about Brookie's drive, Harry Brook's drive, it was wafty. It wasn't a dance down and thumb pit for six over extra cover, was it? So he will pick up, definitely be aware that he's got a lot of work to do on the psychology of the guys.

21:01and I've heard him talk. He has a thousand meetings a day. He won't sit everyone in a boardroom and go, this is what we have to do. He'll be just getting everyone together, seeing each player individually, checking how they're going. He's got work to do with Zach Crawley, without a doubt. He must be feeling devastated today with all the hope.

21:21Nas:I just want to pick Stuart up on one thing there. You say they didn't commit to it. You said earlier about outside the off stump, they could have been more positive. We hear that a lot from this setup after a collapse. We didn't go hard enough. I think McCollum said that after the very first test defeat they had, we didn't go hard enough. We want to go harder. Every time there is a collapse or a loss, it's we need to commit more to it. That will really wind up England fans. What they want to see is don't commit. Is there anything wrong with leaving the ball for half an hour? How frustrated do you get when you're running in, in the heat of Australia, running up ball after ball after ball, and Steve Smith is doing his fancy leaves, and you think, I've got to go a bit straighter, and then he clips you for four.

22:07Nas:What's wrong with leaving the ball, letting the bowler come to you, and then you're ahead of the game, and then they have to go searching? They have not had much rest, remember? Everything I've just mentioned, they've had to come back out because their batting collapsed for 100 all-out. Let them come to you. You're ahead of the game. all I hear from this England side is go harder. Don't go harder. Now dig in and make them get more ruthless rather than go harder. Yeah, I don't think messaging will be go harder. It'll be more committed. And Brendan's got a very sort of clever tactical cricket brain.

22:44He will reflect on that little period. Aussies quickly changed the plan. We're going to go wider. We're going to try and get them driving a bit of extra bounce and nick it. He'll be disappointed the batting group didn't pick up on that. and still commit it. If the guys go, do you know what? I'm going to leave that alone for half an hour. That's still great commitment to trying to win a game of cricket. So I think you'll be disappointed that those conversations didn't happen in the changing room quickly, but it all happened so quickly. You know, it was four wickets in 15 minutes or something. And you know what changing rooms are like when that's going on.

23:17There's thigh pads flying everywhere. Someone's trying to find the helmet. Where's my bat? You know, so it's all quite chaotic. And actually I noticed when Stokes came out to bat, when Rudy had got out and Jamie Smith walking to the crease, Stokes put his bat on the floor the other side of it and he just stopped and he took his time, took both gloves off, put them on the floor just so that the game couldn't go anywhere until he was ready. Didn't help, he got out.

23:41Ath:Can I pick up on a couple of individuals, Crawley and Brooke, who seem to me to be absolutely vital at the moment. They've invested so much in Zach Crawley. There's no spare opener in the squad, although I suppose Bethel could open at a push. Australia is a wonderful place to bat, but it's a wonderful place to bat when the ball is about 20 overs old. He's got out twice to Mitchell Stark and we're about to go to Brisbane for a pink ball game and Mitchell Stark is the maestro with a pink ball. I mean, how concerned are you for Zach Crawley? is in a horrible place at the moment in the sense that he's got out twice in the first over to Mitchell Stark who's in the form of his life currently and you're going to get to the Gabba with a pink ball and he's going to be facing Mitchell Stark he knows he's going to play Brendan McCullum and Stokes are very consistent with selection they're not they're not the sort of captain and coach you're going to tinker that'll be the same group of players if everyone's fit to go and do the job.

24:46It's tricky. I mean, Mitchell Stark took an unbelievable court and bolt to get Zach Crawley out in the second innings. You could go, that's just unlucky. I've just been sort of, one's chipped in, could have gone in the gap, but it didn't. It was an amazing bit of athleticism. But his first innings dismissal was a bad one. You know, sort of, again, that driving at a ball that's not quite there.

25:06Ath:And the second innings wasn't, although it was a brilliant return catch, as you say. It was a very similar length ball. He seems to, he's going to go after the drive. And that is risky in Australia at the start with a new ball. Potentially less risky when you get to Adelaide, but the bounce at the Gabba and Perth, it's a high-risk shot. So he's going to be nervous. You get a pair and you walk out in the next test, you're just desperate for one off the hip and away you go just to get moving. But I don't think there'll be internal question marks over his position in the team. You're right. It's not like there's an opener waiting in the wings to come in.

25:47They've invested in Zach Crawley for this tour. What happens after this tour is dependent on how this tour goes. But he's been picked to play. I think he averages something like 150 against Pat Cummins. Pat Cummins didn't play. But he has got the ability to score runs in Australia. but this will be a mental test for him to get past that first opening spell now because Mitchell Stark was, you know, Rooty's probably in a similar position to be honest. You know, Rooty, Stark comes straight back into the attack when Root comes in and gets him out. And no doubt we get to Brisbane. That's going to happen exactly the same way in the fact that Stark will be bowling at Joe Root when he comes to Greece.

26:26Ath:I want to ask you about Harry Brook. I don't think England can win here if Harry Brook doesn't have a good series. and it seemed to me before the series that there were two areas that they were going to attack Harry Brook with a short ball and that's how he got out in the first innings, albeit not hitting it up but trying to pull out the shot and gloved it behind and then hanging the ball on fifth stump because his foot doesn't go to the pitch of the ball and he's playing with a slightly, I suppose, angled bat, you'd call it. I mean, in Australia, if you were distilling how to bat here with the extra bounce, you'd say full face down the ground, fine.

27:07Ath:Horizontal bats, cross bat shots, fine. Those half and half shots, really risky. And his second innings dismissal encapsulated that.

27:18Nas:Absolutely. I mean, we played with a lad, John Crawley, who liked to play that back foot punch with an angle bat. And he came here and struggled. Even in the nets, we were talking to him. Just be careful of that shot. which is odd because he's brought up in Old Trafford. Two England players to get pairs in Perth. John Crawley was one, was he? And Zach Crawley. Not related. Yeah, and Atherton was the last opener, were you, to get a pair? Melbourne. Melbourne. So, yeah, listen, it is a dangerous shot out there. A lot of people are focusing, I think, on the wrong Harry Brook shot, the run down the pitch.

27:53Nas:That seems to frustrate a lot of people. Second ball, he ran down the pitch to mid-start. over before lunch, two balls, he ran down the pitch. Imagine getting out before lunch on the first day of an Ashes test, running down the pitch to Mitchell's start. But that shot, if you look at the Crickvist stats, that shot he nails 99 % of the time and hits it for six a lot of the time. That's like Ben Duckett playing a reverse sweep or you trying to play a forward defense or something. That's just their go-to shot. That's not the one, it's the hook. We were saying in the summer when he was hooking it for six or whatever, Just be careful in Australia on these big grounds.

28:28Nas:They're going to go after you. And it looked like he knew it was coming. And in the first innings, he wasn't the commit comment. He wasn't sure what to do. And I said to you on the first podcast, you have to tell yourself, what are you going to do with the short ball? There's no point going, no, I'm not going to hook. No, I'm not going to hook. The moment you say, no, I'm not going to do something under pressure. Most of the time you end up doing it. tell yourself as stark or cummins is running in what am i going to do when he bounces me duck i have to say duck and you'll have to either that he wasn't sure what he was going to do and that's a technical one out there ricky ponting was very strong when we had him in the summer about harry brooke ricky was brilliant with his technical analysis he noticed that harry puts his foot on off stump wherever the line of the ball is now you trigger and you should go across if it's outside off he goes on off stump now that makes him a very good player if he can flat bat it or he's very strong in that area but if it's that in between line and then he goes like he did second innings in in australia he's vulnerable so a supplementary question about harry brooke he's

29:36Ath:not somebody i don't think who who kind of reads much around the papers he won't be listening to podcast at least I hope he's not but he needs to tackle that doesn't he can't just throw the bat at the fifth stump line with the extra bounce at places like Perth and Brisbane where we're going which is a similar similar pitch has he got the wherewithal to learn from those mistakes

30:04Nas:I think he needs to I think he needs to just part the ego a little bit realize what a supreme talent he is. Remember how Sri Lanka bowled? Stuart mentioned it on the way here. Remember how Sri Lanka bowled to him when they did throw it out there and he got really frustrated and started taking an ace-thump guard and you can't bowl there to me. I'm Harry Brook. You can be sure now that Boland, who didn't get it right first innings, he bowled nice little floaty drive balls. Scott Boland is going to bowl out there and Harry Brook has to say, I am not playing your game. I am too good just to be driving out there.

30:38Nas:I might do in Adelaide, but not in Brisbane. So he needs to just rein himself in a little bit, keep that attacking instinct when they get into his areas, charge down the pitch, hit it over extra for six if you want to, cut like you do, play spin like you do. But he must, this is just analysis. You must know what is coming next. They've got 13 days now. He must have known going to Perth, they're going to bounce him. He must now know going to the next game, they're going to bowl that six-stump line. Just have a plan. What are you going to do? It's what we've all had to do. The planning he used to do as a bowler was incredible.

31:13Nas:It's just what all cricketers at this level, any level, have to do.

31:16Ath:Do you want to just answer that about Brook? I mean, you've played with him. You know him. Is he somebody who will sit and analyse? Or is he a seaball, hitball player? He's better than that, isn't he? I don't think he'll go through a lot of data and sit in front of a laptop like a lot of players do and really work out and study where foot positions are going and stuff. He's a field player. He feels what he's doing. But he adores batting. He loves batting. He wants to spend as long out there as possible, he wants to score as many runs as possible. And he will be annoyed at himself with that dismissal.

31:57I thought that was the worst dismissal actually in the game. Yeah, it was. And he'll be aware of that. He's now not just the young kid on the block who's got a lot of talent and we're excited to see. He's now averaging over 50 in Test Match cricket at a crucial number five. We need him scoring runs. He's a really important player. So Australia have won that battle with him. They've bounced him out once and they've bowled the sort of seventh stump line and he's nicked it. He's a proud player. He won't want that to continue and have to combat that. And now he knows what the plans are going to be.

32:34He's a good enough player to work out how he's going to combat that. And that might be him running down the pitch more. It might be. But we'll find that out. I don't think he'll make a technical tweak in this gap.

32:47Nas:It'll just be a psychological one. I'm going to pick you up. I thought the Pope dismissals was the one that frustrated me the most. We were sat there in that room watching. How many times before lunch did Pope have a flashy drive outside the off stump? You could see that dismissal coming a mile off. He was eight or nine. He played so well in the first inning. You said you saw him at Lilac Hill and he looked composed and calm and not frenetic. He played brilliantly in the first inning. Second innings, flash, flash, flash. He went to lunch and he thought someone or himself at lunch would have thought, put that shot away.

33:21Nas:I've missed a few. I'm playing with danger there. And straight after lunch, flash and nick.

33:26Ath:It was a frustrating dismissal and you could see it coming. The reason that I said I thought Brook's dismissal was the worst is simply because I think he's such an important player for England. You've got that kind of fulcrum of Root at four, Brook at five. If England are going to win games here, those two have got to produce. They're our absolute top-notch players, and I just feel that that's the kind of fulcrum of the batting line-up. Should we just throw it forward a bit? I mean, it's a curious thing now, isn't it? They've got 13 days before the next Test match. I don't think I've ever been on an England tour where there's been a two-week break between games.

34:05Ath:I mean, they could fly home and come back again and be ready for the next Test. So how would you, if you were the senior player in there right now, how would you be kind of chatting through what would be the best approach for the team over that period other than going to vineyards and booking tea times? you know ultimately i can look from a bowler's point of view that's how i would structure what workload i want to do what skill work i'd want to do before the next game also what facilities are available they probably won't be able to change flights and logistics and things like that at this stage but i might i imagine they'll do netting i don't know if they're able to get a middle practice in i actually used to really enjoy the middle practices when you bowl against, you have a net basically, but without nets there and you get a real sense of lengths and what balls go for four and what balls are challenging.

34:58The bowlers will want to get a pink ball in their hand and get used to the feeling of that again, but they'll need some, they need some cricket.

35:05Ath:So there's potential for two days against the Prime Minister's 11 at Canberra. That would be some competitive cricket with a pink ball, but I just saw some quotes, I think, from Stuart Law, who knows the conditions at Marnica. It's a long time since I've been there, but it used to be a very slow, low pitch at Marnica. And obviously the Gabba is completely different for that. And if England flagged up a long time ago that they were not planning to send their players there, that this was going to be an expedition for the Lions, if they suddenly changed tack, they'd be accused of panicking. I mean, do you think they will consider sending any players there or they'll just go to Brisbane?

35:43They'll keep the group together. They'll train together as a tight unit.

35:47Ath:And if Zach Crawley on the back of a pair came to you and said, you know, I'd really like a bit of a hit at Marnica, what would you say then? Great question. Great question. I was actually going to ask you, if you were coach, what would you do with the group? But I don't think that any England player will go there. I think Baz will want to keep them tight as a group, training together, like learning off each other. What did you get out of the last game? How did you feel? Because there's no doubt a few of them would have got to the crease, felt rushed, felt like the crowd was noisy it's only going to get there might be less people at the gabber but it's noisy really noisy when they get out to the middle how do we compose ourselves and not lose wickets in in clusters it'll be all those sort of conversations so i don't want it i don't think he'll want the group fragmenting into different parts of of australia to work on to work on things um it will be very much that you know nothing's really changed from four days ago we're in a good place we're ready to go and just because we've lost that game doesn't mean we can't go to brisbane and get in a winning position.

36:47Ath:Before I bring in that, I mean, just finishing on a slightly more optimistic note. I mean, you spent the last few days in the Channel 7 commentary box. Did you get the sense amongst the former Australian players that they were ready to start kind of criticising? England got in a good position, didn't they? Khawaja wanders off with a back strain, looked, you know, his question marks about his place at the top of the order. Nathan Lyon was kind of limping, having been hit by Mark Wood. I got the sense that there were a few cracks ready to open if England could have got on top and made that position count.

37:28Ath:Did you sense that as well from the former players in the commentary box? Absolutely. Two days ago, it was Mekwaja's front page of the paper, having played golf the day before. Or like three days before in a row or something, and then goes in the back. And yeah, they were ready to go. And then we're in a results-driven business. So if England win that test match, Australia, suddenly there'd be pressure on George Bailey, there'd be pressure on the head coach, everything. Because they win, that's all of them brushed under the carpet and you move forward. And their own decision is whether you keep Travis Head at the top, really.

38:04Which is an interesting call, isn't it? If Usman Kwaj is not fit or you think there's better players than him, then he misses out. But, yeah, I think there was definitely a feeling when England were 100 ahead that this Australian team hadn't really got firing. Obviously, Mitchell Stark had a wonderful first day and England were on top. And I think that, again, as a former England player, you go, gosh, what an opportunity. What an opportunity that was to start this tour. Well, and, you know, I don't... It's a really good Australian group and the fact they've got match winners like Travis Head who can go and do that.

38:41I thought England, as Stokes admitted, were very shell-shocked as to what they did and didn't cope with it particularly well. There was one, I don't think Stokes bowled himself early enough, but also when someone's going like that, is there the chance to just slow it down, give him one? Then when Labochain gets on strike, you bowl five dots, Traversier gets on strike, give him one, and then for 40 minutes, he doesn't face many balls, he doesn't find the boundary, and then he might make a mistake. But every time Labochain got on strike, we bowled a leg stump off volley that he clipped a square leg, and he's off strike again.

39:11So it was a poor bowling performance within an unbelievable batting display. But yeah, I think the Australian press and ex-players were lining up Australia if that day didn't go particularly well.

39:29Ath:Which is the frustration. I mean, we've captained England teams here where sometimes we've gone into a game wondering how we're going to get 20 wickets. whereas to grasp one kind of bit of hope out of a two-day defeat, certainly in that first innings, it looked as though England do have ammunition here. They do have a capability of picking up wickets, taking 20 wickets. Do you think that's the main bit of hope to cling to as we move forward now to the Gabba and beyond, that there will be opportunities for England in this series if they're good enough to take them?

40:06Nas:Yeah, first thing you've got to do is get over that frustration. You've just had Australia in the first test of a series in Australia in your hands like that, and they're without Cummins and Hazelwood, and you've got the game there, and you let it go, and we all know how hard it's to come back in this country. So that's the first thing to get over. The second thing is to then move it on to positivity. Now, if I, us has-beens, to use the quote of the captain. Were you involved in the has-beens? We weren't to the has-beens. We are has-beens, or never were. We weren't named, but we took it as read that we are.

40:41I agree with Stokesy if he got you involved in that as well. But I don't think I get into the has-been just yet.

40:48Nas:You're pretty close. Give it a while. In my era, to use that horrible saying, the sides we were playing against, having had that two-day defeat here, to go to the gabbertoir against the lineups we had to face and the crowd we'd have to face at the Gabba. That is a big comeback. But with this present Australian side, as Stuart called the worst Australian side to ever play the game, there are cracks there. There are opportunities, as we have seen in the last two days. But the only thing I would ask is learn from your mistakes. That's the only thing I'm not quite getting from this team. There's a little bit of that's the way I play.

41:28Nas:There's that with Crawley. There's that with Pope. There's that with Brooke. look, that's how we play. If you go with that, you will always get, to use one of my cliches, what you've always got. Please learn from your mistakes and try and improve because if you keep doing it, the same result will happen at the Gabba. So just learn from your mistakes and play better because you know you can beat this lot.

41:52Ath:So a kind of a downbeat couple of days in Perth without a doubt, but a slightly upbeat message to finish on that there will be opportunities down the line if England are good enough to take them. I think particularly on the pitches that we're going to see, the Australian batters have talked a lot about how much these pitches are doing in Australia now, whether that's to do with having a captain in Pat Combs as a bowler, but they're moving much more than certainly in your era when you came and the early sort of 13, 14 tours. So the opportunity to take 20 wickets is there because the pitches are offering you that.

42:30that so teams will have little batting collapses here and there because they're difficult to start on you only see steve smith got hit on the back elbow three times and my little slabish in the same so you're seeing in different bounce in these surfaces so the chance will be to get 20 wickets it's whether we're good enough to to get the runs uh at the crucial time i think i think when we chatted to ricky ponting at the oval remember on that rooftop he said 10 and 11 england came here average batting partnership was 50 and since then it's been 20 and these the first test here didn't do those averages any favors going up in the right direction so yeah we're gonna i think you're right harry brooke's gonna have to score we're gonna need root and brooke to score runs at some stage

43:15Ath:in this series if he can do the job 13 days what you're up to a bit of pro-am golf is there a pro-am Didn't you not say you were going to Melbourne to plan the program? I haven't decided fully on anything yet, apart from going on an Australian show called The Front Bar, which sounds thirsty. It's an AFL-type sort of show that's supposed to be a lot of fun. That's what it's been described to me as. So I'm a little bit nervous of that in Melbourne and then over to Sydney for bits of work and bits of podcasting and looking forward to the cricket. And you, Margaret River, for a couple of days? Yeah, hopefully.

43:51Nas:And then to my favourite venue, the Gabba, where the toss will not be mentioned at all, will it? Great. Looking forward to it. And 13 days with you. Great.

43:59Ath:Well, it's good to see you. Thanks for joining the best cricket podcast going. You can scurry back to Joss Butler. Is that official in the rankings? I don't know. We're probably a bit behind you and Joss. Anyway. And was it you to blame for me being on Sky Sports Twitter feed with my eyes closed? I loved that, actually, this morning. I was chuckling away seeing you next to Matthew Hayden, and I thought if things go like they've gone in the last couple of days at Perth, it's going to be a long summer here in the Channel 7 commentary box. Although what I would say, it's a lot easier losing from the commentary box than it is on the field.

44:48Nas:stories. Join me and the very best Premier League pundits Monday to Friday, 10 till 12 on Sky Sports News or listen on our brand new podcast, which drops as soon as we come off air. On the pod, you can expect hot takes, fierce debate and some more of your messages. Just search for Sky Sports FC wherever you get your podcasts. Give us a like, follow or subscribe. That's Sky Sports FC, a Sky Sports podcast. Thank you.