The Ashes Review: Australia seal 4-1 win as England vow to evolve and change

0:00Nasser Hussain:OK, before we start today's pod, we want to say thank you to Tourism Western Australia, who are sponsoring this episode. Western Australia is a place that stays with you, home to Australia's sunniest city, Perth, with its 19 beautiful beaches and relaxed alfresco lifestyle. Beyond the city, you can swim with gentle whale sharks, manta rays and turtles at the World Heritage-listed Ningaloo Reef, or meet adorable quokkas on Rocknest Island. You can also wander through majestic tall timber forests, explore ancient limestone caves and marvel at bubblegum pink lakes and red rock cliffs. Every corner of Western Australia offers something new.

0:40Nasser Hussain:Rugged landscapes, dramatic scenery, ancient stories, friendly locals, huge national parks and delicious local food and wine. Inspired to visit Western Australia but feeling stumped, there are no boundaries to flight centres' travel expertise. You'll have your own dedicated travel expert, real people who know Australia inside out and love creating tailor-made itineraries to suit your style, needs and budget. Visit flightcentre.co.uk to plan your Western Australia adventure today. What a start, that is from Crawley. Chris Wokes nails it for four. The Ash is alive and Test cricket alive. Ice in his veins.

1:22Nasser Hussain:Pat Cummins has led his team to a famous victory.

1:30Nasser Hussain:England's captain Ben Stokes while he is there England have hope put the beer away put the champagne on ice 24 years of pain in Australia finally they're beaten at home by England OK it's an hour and 45 after the last ball of the 2025 26 ashes here at the Sydney Creek Ground our producer routinely likes us to put us in the windiest place possible for these post-match wraps So we're high up in the members stand. Looking down behind us, actually, it's quite a nice scene. The players and families out on the SCG just enjoying a bit of a kick around and a bit of a hit at the end of another series. Australia, of course, regained the ashes earlier in the series, but they finished the game here with a five-wicket victory and a deserved 4-1 series win, Nass.

2:19Absolutely. They've played the better cricket. They've been the more consistent side. England have had their moments but not been able to capitalise on those moments. Australia with the ball relentless and with the bat, two or three cricketers that were just superb. You think of Travis Head, you think of Steve Smith here and you think of Alex Carey and then you throw in Stark with 31 wickets. So Australia, the better side and deserved winners. And in fact, for all the hype of this Ashes series, really it's pretty much gone as every other Ashes series recently in Australia since the Strauss tour, England flattered to deceive.

2:58Nasser Hussain:Well, let's just rake over the coals of today, first of all. Mitchell Stark, as you say, it was fitting that the final two wickets went to him. He finished off Jacob Bethel, but not before Bethel became the second youngest England batsman to pass 150 in a test match. And Stark, as you say, 31 wickets. And rightly, I think the player of the series, I'm glad they gave it to him because his contributions in those decisive early games. I mean, it must have been touch and go between him and Travis Head, but I think he probably deserved it. Yeah, I'm not sure it's the sort of thing you can share. That's a bit sitting on the fence.

3:31And I don't think actually either of them would care that much. You know, as an Australian, we know they just want to win, win the Ashes and win and end well. Because if it'd gone 3-2, then they'd be like, did we let them back in and were we not as ruthless as we'd like to be? And especially here, with it being the Sydney Cricket Ground and Khawaja's last game and the crowds. I mean, I saw a figure, was it about 860 ,000 throughout the Ashes? If you'd got five days at Melbourne and Perth, it'd been well over a million. So when you've had such a high-profile series, you want to end well. And you're right, it was fitting.

4:05Stark got the final wickets and Carey got the winning runs as well because his contribution with the bat and with the glove, standing up to the likes of Boland and Nisa and the catches he took, standing back, it's not easy. You know, he's coming at number six as well. He's not coming in at seven like some keepers do. So I thought he was outstanding. England, I thought, like throughout the Ashes, they were playing catch-up cricket. You know, spinning there, if they got another 50 runs, if they played a front-line spinner, if they got more than 380 in their first innings, I think that's where the game was lost.

4:39Ben Stokes, as a presentation, spoke about 100 more. They batted better in the first innings, and those two shots from Brooke and then Jamie Smith and then obviously yesterday the shot from Will Jacks. There were shots that really cost England and I think that's been the story of the Ashes and obviously the new ball burst. Who would you have given the new ball to today when Australia went about chasing 160?

5:04Nasser Hussain:Couldn't be Stokes, obviously, because he was injured but it was good to see him out on the field. I think that's the way to finish the Ashes, out on the field rather than in the dressing room if possible and it couldn't be Pops after the way he bowled in the first inning. So I thought it had to be Kars and Tong. Spin? If you had a front-line spinner? If you had a front-line spinner, then different with two left-handers. If you've got a good off spinner, then you might have gone with a spinner. But I don't think you could give it to Jacks or Roots, really, with the new ball. So I thought they got it right with the new ball combination.

5:38Nasser Hussain:and Kars actually tried to get it much fuller than he had been throughout the... Well, at 62 for none, there was no real sign of the wobble to come, but there was a bit of a nervy wobble after that. And it was a bit farcical at times. Some of the running between the wickets. I mean, even I was stood up going, what are they doing? That's my running between the wickets. Cameron Green and Alex Carey look like they've never met before at a cricket ground. It was farcical at times. And you just never know with Cameron Green. When he strolled, he doesn't feel like a man for a crisis. And they were in a mini crisis at that stage and fair play to him.

6:13He played pretty well. One thing I want to ask you, you've been on various Ashes tours out here and you were very critical last time about the way England ended with a whimper and batters backing away and just giving up, basically. At least they showed some fight here today.

6:28Nasser Hussain:Well, absolutely. And that goes back to a little bit the point about Stokes. You know, it would have been perhaps easy for him to sit in the dressing room today with an abductor injury, he can't bowl, but he was out there and standing at slip and he managed to drive a respectable performance at the end. I mean, you know, for all that you might be critical about Brydon Kars' skill and accuracy at times this series, you cannot fault, you know, his heart and his spirit. And I thought that was a pretty decent effort from England today, albeit in a way that the last two or three hours, I thought, summed up the series.

7:03Nasser Hussain:There were drop catches, one that flew between the keeper and Stokes off Will Jacks from Cowaja and then Labashain was dropped at Gully a catch that Bethel should have taken I think is an excellent fielder so two catches that went down and a snicker and a snicker we always have a snicker and a bit of sort of and a bit of argy-bargy and it almost had to end with a snicker and I couldn't see why the third umpire didn't give it out actually I thought it was out it seemed to I mean I know the on-field decision was not out but it seemed to be a definite murmur there as the ball went past the toe end of the bat I had a couple of whatsapps saying what's the difference between that and the Stokes one really I think that's why England was so wound up but as we said right at the start of the whole Snicko controversy once you lose faith in the technology then you're gone then everyone starts questioning it but I don't think England lost this series or this game And then, you know, Labashain's run out was comical, really, at the end of it, because he looked close to tears and couldn't really drag himself off the pitch.

8:05Nasser Hussain:He never gets off the pitch quickly when he's out, but this time especially so. But then almost tears of laughter when, as you say, Green and Carey were both running towards the same end at one point. Anyway, they got Australia over the line, five-wicket victory. it was a bit of a kind of wobble towards the end, but a comfortable enough win in the end and probably deserved scoreline, really. Yeah, I think so. I think the shots that the director of cricket, Rob Key, called dumb shots when he sat with us and in a press conference. I think the new ball bowl, well, all facets of the game, really. The new ball bowling, the difference in new ball bowling was just incredibly different.

8:49different. My one biding memory of this Ashes is going to be Travis Head cutting the ball and pulling the ball and that just tells you where England are bowling and then the next one will be the shots when England have got into good positions and where they need to be ruthless. You look at the two best players, in fact the three, two greats and a young classy player, you look at the way those three played in Smith, Root and Bethel and they were, they've got the tempo of batting it's not about blocking tempo of batting ruthless over my dead body but not just gonna block and be boring why can't the rest of them sort of see that why can't jamie smith see that and see that situation when labashane comes on before lunch it's those moments where you look you're not you need to look ahead you need to look ahead now and you're in that dressing room and then think, if only in that moment I had the root-Smith-Bethel ruthlessness, not today, Labashain.

9:51You're not going to get me out. I'm going to be there for the new ball. You might get 450. They might be chasing 220 today. You might win a test match.

9:59Nasser Hussain:In every test match and in every test series, there are always what-if moments. And, of course, they're irrelevant in the end because it's what you do in the moment that counts. I think the difference with this series has been the magnitude of the errors that England have made. And, you know, you touched on the two dismissals in this game of Jamie Smith and Will Jacks. And there, you know, is the difference in having that extra 100, 120 runs to play with. And I think that is the problem for England now when they look back at this series. I don't think there's any worse thing for an athlete to feel you didn't give yourself the best chance of succeeding, whether it's through preparation or in the way that you've played.

10:44Nasser Hussain:You know, we played against, we got heavily beaten, marmalised usually by Australia, but we played against, you know, that Australia side that you lost to in 0-2-3 is a genuinely great side. And I think what will haunt England in this series is that they've just not given themselves the very best chance to be at their best. And that is the hard thing for an athlete to deal with. It's the kind of thing that will haunt them, I think, in years to come. Anyway, you... And sorry to interrupt. And against an Australian side that were missing some serious cricketers. That's my point. I mean, Pat Cummins joined Smith on the podium there to lift the giant replica glass urn.

11:25Nasser Hussain:But he's played one game. Hazelwood's played none. Lions played two, one and a half. And you've got three of the top five Australian batters averaging in the low 20s. And that's what I mean by it's going to haunt them in years to come that they've not given themselves the best chance. Anyway, you caught up with Brendan McCollum for 10 minutes and we're going to listen to that interview now.

11:53Brendan, thanks for your time. Before we look back at the whole series, How do you look back on this game? Where was this one lost? Well, firstly, I thought the wicket was outstanding. I thought it was the best pitch that we played on throughout. Adelaide was good, but this had a little bit in it for everyone. It was good for the seam early. If you were able to combat that, there was enough pace in it to be able to score big hundreds if you were able to apply yourself. We saw it spin and play a little bit up and down towards the end. I thought it was a brilliant test match wicket. And to go to the fifth day, after lunch on the fifth day, is probably what everyone wanted from this series.

12:29We had our chances again, as we have done right throughout the series. I look back and I think, could we have done a little bit more with the ball in that first innings when we had the chance after posting 380, which I thought was not a bad score. I don't think it was necessarily above par, but I thought it was not a bad score. Could we have done a little bit more to have a bit more penetration with the ball? Possibly. Could we have manufactured our plans a little bit earlier to try and put a bit more, to give the Steve Smiths and the Travis Heads a slightly different look at something because when they get in on a wicket like that, it can be quite difficult to get them out.

13:05And then obviously, you know, Jacob Ethel played an unbelievable innings, gave us a chance on the fifth day, and we weren't quite able to get across the line even though we were in the contest. Catching again probably let us down too. We've been good for a lot of the series, and then we've been pretty poor for the key moments as well. So a real missed opportunity, Nass. You didn't mention the batting there much. Do you feel 380-odd on that first innings pitch was enough? I thought it was an OK score. I didn't think it was a horrific score. It obviously wasn't above par, but I thought it was a decent score if we had been able to be a little bit more impactful when we had the opportunity with ball in hand, especially that first night when we had the new ball and we obviously had favourable conditions with the lights on, there was overcast conditions.

13:55We just got knocked off our length again by Travis Head and we weren't quite able to get that control back. But I think from a batting point of view, we actually weren't too bad. I know there's a couple of shots where the guys will clearly be disappointed with and if they had their opportunity again, they'd probably change. But that's what Test cricket in the biggest occasions can do, right? Let's talk about it throughout the series now. You mentioned the batting there. The director of cricket, Rob Crickey, said at times you've played dumb shots. How do you react when you see some of the shots that Harry Brooks played, some of the shots, Jamie Smith here, Will Jacks here?

14:33How do you react as a coach? What are you saying to him after those shots? I think for a start, Harry Brooks averages 55 in test cricket, 55, and he plays the same way every time. So he's a generational talent. He's got a very aggressive game. He knocks bowlers off their lengths. He negates the amount of good balls that opposition can bowl. And I think there's a slight misconception because of how he gets out that his output's not significant. 55 is world class. And I think we just need to continue to... For him, he's still 26 years of age. He's got his best years in front of him. And he's had a hell of a start to his test career.

15:14And he's unique in how he goes about it. But clearly the shots that Jamie and Will played, look, I'm not going to... What we say in the dressing room can be very different to what we say in the public. But there is moments which sometimes the pressure can ramp up and you can get out in certain ways. But you can also get out defending a ball when the most courageous thing is actually trying to negate the very ball which you think. But because it's an acceptable way to get out, people let that one slide. But once you're out, you're out, right? But there's a perception out there that the culture, there is no accountability.

15:51You can average 30, stay in the side. You can get out however you want. Are you telling us there is accountability within this side? If you keep getting out the same way, if you keep playing dumb shots, someone will pull you up on it? Yeah, of course, Naz. So what we say externally and what we say within the dressing room can be very different, right? It's a matter of these guys, if we look at the average age, We look at the average amount of games that our team's played. You take Joe Root and Ben Stokes out of it, and we're still quite a young side. There's still a lot of development and a lot of test cricket to get under the belt to become that really clinical decision-making side.

16:29I think we've got the makings of a good side. We're obviously disappointed here in Australia. We've got the makings of a very good side, and sometimes you've got to keep persisting with that. But there is always accountability. Of course there is. We don't operate in a soft environment. both the skipper and myself. You get to where you get in your life, but coming from where you come from, because you have the ability to work out when to deliver a hard message and when to make sure that you give guys a pat on the back and keep progressing and evolving. So, yeah, I think that is a perception thing, and I don't believe it's reality.

17:04And the catching? Something like 17 catches went down. People saying you haven't got a fielding coach. Why didn't you have a fielding coach? Would it have made a difference? Yeah, well, we don't have a fielding coach. It wasn't for the lack of trying, but that's unfortunately... There's lots of franchise cricket on at the moment, and unfortunately franchises pay a lot more than we do. So that's just the nature of how things work sometimes. But look, we do a lot of training. We do a lot of fielding work, and a lot of those catches were hard. There's a couple of ones which you'd expect to take, and you can't expect to come down here and be successful in Australia if you're not holding your catches, and unfortunately we weren't able to do so.

17:39You said before the series, this was the biggest series of our lives. Do you feel as a coach and a management group that you've given the players the best chance to succeed in the biggest series of their lives? Well, again, that's something as a coach you've got to look at, right? In the next little while, I've already acknowledged that there's some mistakes which you made as a coach and you wear that. Your job is to accept that, to take accountability for it, and I'm not shy of admitting that. there is no perfect preparation if there was we would have done it you have beliefs and you have ideas and we followed the same path that we had been successful with leading into this series there was a lot of talk about how we should have been in the WAC before that Perth test, we asked for the WAC, it wasn't available we were told no, so that narrative is not quite true could we have done more?

18:30Of course we can and the next little while is about ensuring you look at what worked, what didn't work and trying to make sure you don't make the same mistakes again. And that's what evolution and progress is about. And even if you won 5-0, there's still areas of evolution and progress which you would look to take on board. The thing from my point of view is it's not about ripping our script up completely. From when we took over to where we are now, we're a better cricket team. We've had more success and we need to just make sure that we keep progressing, keep evolving to become a better cricket side over the next couple of years.

19:04Can you personally evolve and change, or is it the Brendan McCullum philosophy, or are you constantly evolving and changing? There's talk of a bit of tinkering and maybe another voice in that dressing room, an assistant coach. Can you change your ways, or is this the way you're going to play? I sort of take offence to that, to be honest. I have conviction in my methods, but I'm not rigid in my beliefs. I think is when you're in the chair of being in charge of a team and not just the players but sports staff and management etc you need to be very convinced in how you're going to lead the side. It doesn't mean that you're blind to progress and you're blind to evolution but you have to have conviction in what you believe in and I have conviction in my methods.

19:51It doesn't mean I'm not rigid in the belief that I think we can continue to grow and progress but to throw out everything that's worked and to throw out what we've been able to achieve over the last little while in pursuit of something that is completely unknown doesn't make any sense. Did you stick to that conviction in this series? Because at times the captain was playing in a slightly different way. He looked like over my dead body, called for a bit more fight and a bit more character. Australia is not a place for weak men. People signal that as to come on, let's grind it out and he tried to.

20:24Do you think you were both on the same page throughout this series? Yeah, we're always on the same page. Stokes and I have become good friends, obviously, and good colleagues as well, and we have robust conversations. It doesn't mean we agree with one another all the time, but we commit to whatever we decide. We have those conversations, we debate the points, and then whatever we decide, we then support the other one in those decisions. The thing is that nothing's binary when it comes to the side. The way we try and set up a cricket team is with complementary skills. And some guys, they're at their best when they're trying to put teams under pressure more often, and other guys are at their best when they're trying to absorb a little bit more.

21:06And you're not always going to get it right. There's going to be a balance which you need to go for, and we're not the first cricket team that's come down here and got that balance wrong. But from our point of view, we still believe that if we keep progressing, we keep evolving, we stay true to what we believe in, then we give ourselves a good opportunity of progressing over the next couple of years. Do you feel it was the right decision, after all this time out here, to take both roles as the white ball coach and the test match coach? Because now you've got two weeks to Sri Lanka, four weeks to a World Cup, and you've got to be planning for that.

21:40White ball cricket, as you know, is seriously important. Have you spread yourself too thin? Well, I don't think I've spread myself too thin. I've been travelling the world for 25 years, operating across all formats as a playing career and then obviously in coaching. It's a real privilege and I'm very humbled to be in the position that I'm in. It doesn't come without its challenges, but the challenges, they're worth the bet because of the opportunity to try and get the best out of these guys and to achieve some things that could be quite special to a lot of them. And not just the players, but all the fans as well.

22:16I look at that T20 World Cup and I think we've got a very good side. I think we've got an opportunity. Our T20 game is actually in reasonable federal. Our white ball needs some work, and clearly we've got some progress to make when it comes to our test side as well. But over the next couple of months, there's a chance to do something special in that T20 side. But at the same time, I will have some time to be able to digest what's happened here, and we'll see where we land after that. One final question. You've played a lot of very good cricket under your coaching skills, but you've not beaten India or Australia, home or away.

22:49Do you still think you're the right man to put that right in the future? Yeah, look, I do. I'm keen to carry on in the role. I think those decisions ultimately aren't up to me either, Nass, but from my point of view, whatever happens, I'm completely content with. I firmly believe there is a significant upside in this cricket team. I think the lessons that we'll be able to digest from this tour with what we've built over the last three and a half years there's some great learning opportunities there and it'd be a shame to rip it all up and to try and chase something that no one knows whether it would be successful or not but ultimately those decisions aren't up to you but whatever I decide and again I'm not against evolution I'm not against progress in fact I welcome it not just in cricket or the teams that I'm operating but across all sport but at the same time you have to have the conviction in what you believe in So, you know, if that's whatever comes out of the wash up from this, we'll deal with in time.

23:49Thanks for your time. Safe travels. Thank you, Ness.

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