Will England's second Root era start with a win against Pakistan? Azhar Mahmood previews the Test series

15:02Ath:Just tell us a bit about what you're doing at the moment, actually. You're not involved in Pakistan cricket, so you're back on the franchise circuit, eh? Yes, I'm back on the franchise circuit. So I'm working for Desert Vipers, so we won that tournament in ILT. Then working for Zalmi and PSL won that tournament as well. just finished Guyana Super League and now looking forward for a Europe League as well.

15:24Nas:Before we get into Pakistan cricket and the series, what have you made as someone who lives in England, is a massive fan of English domestic international cricket, what did you make of Basbol and everything about it? The last few years of England cricket, have you been a fan? I mean, you played your cricket with a real sort of verve and energy. Have you been a fan of Basbol or have Have you looked at it and gone, they could be better? I think they could be better because I like the way they played cricket in those two years but sometimes you need the balance between attacking and defensive cricket as well.

15:58You need to assess and adapt what requires. You can't play one-way cricket in test match cricket. Sometimes you have to absorb the pressure as well. So I think looking at that two years, they have a lot of success. But sometimes you see from nowhere they lost the test match from nowhere. So you think they're going to win the test match. Looking at that, it just reminds me of Pakistan a bit, you know. Like sometimes, you know. Not clear. Unpredictable. Which way we go. As you mentioned, unpredictable. Yes, sometimes I feel like that.

16:32Ath:Just looking at test cricket specifically, Where is Pakistan at at the moment? I mean, you're eighth in the World Test Championship. I think you were down at the bottom of the last cycle. I think Pakistan lost 13 out of the last 18 Test matches. New captain, new coach. Haven't won here in England since 1996. It's a long time, although England and Pakistan haven't actually played that much cricket against each other in the last 10 years. Give us a kind of general overview of where Pakistan is at. At the moment, I'm not going to say Pakistan got a chance, but I need to be optimistic. You know, like, I think if you see that betting line-up which Pakistan have, you mentioned last 18 test matches, I think that's a similar betting line-up you can see it.

17:21There's a lot of rotation between the players in those 18 test matches. They play one game and then they drop and then they come back. But if you see, they have the depth, which is, I think, Aishan Masood, Sausha Keel, Abdullah Shafiq, Baba Razum. They all played county cricket here. They know the condition really well. And in terms of their bowling lineup, you know, Muhammad Abbas, one of the best seamers. And unfortunately, this guy missed three years of his cricket. So he just came back recently and got three Pfeiffer in five test matches. So that's what I'm saying is inconsistency. I think if Pakistan got any chance, they need to bet well, get to 300, 350 runs on the board.

18:05And then, you know, like their planning and tactics needs to be right. You know, as we saw England struggle against when keeper up and someone like Abbas who can bowl stump to stump and asking them to make mistakes.

18:19Ath:We might come on to Mohamed Abbas in a bit in more detail because he's a fascinating story in general. But just on the captain, obviously the move to Baza from Shan Masood. A, is that the right call? And what are you expecting from Baba this summer? I'm not sure it's the right call. I'm not going to say it's the right call. But if you're playing four test matches in a year, and after six months you're playing a test match with no domestic cricket around and ask the guys to come and perform. So it's always a tough one. If you see even Sean, Sean was captain majority of the time in the last three years.

18:56But they had five different coaches, five different setups. And it's very difficult to get, because every coach has their own plan, their own thinking, own philosophy. And I can't blame Sean on that. And in terms of that, you know, you see there's players. They played for themselves rather than playing for a team. When I went two years back, I can see players were playing for themselves rather than for the team. So the personal milestone was a lot higher than the team milestone. And that's the sort of culture you need to create when you give them consistency runs.

19:32Nas:One thing about Barbara, it looks like the captaincy lifts his own performance. I was looking at the stats. He averages 53 as a captain, 38 when he's not captain at PSL. When he's captain, his stats go in the right direction. it looks like some people captaincy weighs heavy on him. Baba, it looks like it improves him. Tell us about Baba the individual. We don't see him that much. We do the odd interview with him. What's he like as an individual? He loves batting. He got a lot of influence from his dad, from his young coach, like when we worked with that guy. But he's very shy. He's been through a lot.

20:08I spent a lot of time with him, like five months with him, when he was out of the team after England series because I got nothing to do. Two test matches after three months time. So we played golf together. He was really down because the way he's been treated in Pakistan by the ex-players or social media pundits, the way they treated him. Because we have only one guy who is a superstar and we are pulling him down all the time. Yes, he has to improve, he has certain things to improve. Everyone does that. And I think now he's mature. When he's captain he thinks he's got more power, he's got more confidence, he has to lead from the front.

20:52So when he's captain you can see those types of things coming up from him. If he's not captain, if nobody gives him respect which he deserves and sometimes he goes into shell.

21:05Ath:Just had a decent win at Beckenham actually against the County 11 on a very dry surface which you may get given the weather we've had. But if you look at how the Pakistan team are going to line up, where are the particular strengths and weaknesses do you think in that team? I think their batting line up, if you see as I mentioned, their experienced line up. I think Rizwan and Salman Aga do runs. The rest of the guys, Abdullah Shafi got 100 in West Indies. Shan got 100 in West Indies as well. And in practice game, Saad Shaqeel coming back from injury and he got 100 as well. So, you know, like, batting is getting there.

21:46I think the biggest thing is on these conditions, if the pitch is dry, if you see Pakistan bowling line-up, there's no massive someone who had a pace. Normally Pakistan with a pace. It's incredible, isn't it?

21:58Nas:Well, I was just going to ask you that. One thing, you say they're unpredictable, you say they're up and down. One thing they are predictable at is having fast bowlers. You know, we've... Where have they gone? Where have they gone, basically? They're still there. They're still there. You know, I still believe Shaheen got a lot of cricket left. Naseem Shah got a lot of cricket left. We have young kid, Obed Shah, Naseem's younger brother, the younger one. So he got some pace, you know, like he can bowl 140, 145. But, you know, I've seen him in last test match, but he was bowling at 127, 130, maybe because of the condition and stuff like that.

22:32But we still have the likes of Ali Raza. He's a genuine, he's got a genuine pace. Abdul Subhan, he's got a genuine pace. These guys are there, but you need to identify the talent, okay? I understand nowadays people think, you know, like three format. You need to understand who is my test match bowler, who's my 50-over bowler, who's my T20 bowler. I think, unfortunately, Pakistan never had a clue which are the guys we're going to invest on them. And, unfortunately, there's no much money involved. When people go and play franchise cricket, they earn more money, and they are happy to bowl four hours rather than 20 hours.

23:10So I think if Pakistan needs to inject the money in domestic cricket and giving contract to the guys who play red ball cricket a bit more money, then they can sort out some people.

23:22Nas:They're trying to do that, aren't they? They've upped the test match rate. You know, someone like Harris Ralph is an example. He's going to get so much money travelling the world playing franchise cricket. Is there enough incentive for him to come back? It's almost becoming a little bit like the West Indies situation. To travel the world, play, bowl 20 balls and 100, or bowl four overs or whatever it is. Is there enough incentive to play test match cricket for a young Pakistan fast bowler growing up? I don't think so. There's not enough incentive to be honest. Now they put their central contract higher, but how long they're going to last, you know, this is the issue.

24:01They have done in the past and then after three months time, you know. I always said that, you know, Pakistan always put the reset button after three months. They need to stop doing that. They just need to say, okay, these are the guys. These are the guys, identify, talent, and now we have to back them. Yes, sometimes you might not see the result, but you are getting better every single day. So success will come. You need to stay patient, disciplined. When we say about cricket, yes, you know you're off time and everything, but it's the same thing, you know, like when you're selecting team, when you're putting team together, when you're putting selection committee together, they need to back those players.

24:42Unfortunately, I've seen last two years when I was around there, so Abbas came back after three years and Muhammad Ali played a test match and then he came back after two years. So that sort of thing, people will never grow as a player. They always be cautious about their performance. So you need to give them a proper run to get a successful side.

25:06Ath:You mentioned Mohamed Abbas there, who's got a remarkable record. I think his test match record is better than, say, Imran Khan, Waikar Younis, Wazim Akram. In terms of the pure average, he's got the lowest average, I think, of any bowler who's bowled more than 2 ,000 balls in test cricket or something. But he is, you know, we're talking 75, 77 miles an hour. Presumably Rizwan's going to be up to the stumps. First of all, how do you think England's middle order and top order are going to challenge him? Because he is an outstandingly skillful bowler, but a bit of a throwback in terms of pace.

25:46Nas:You don't want to use the phrase horses for courses, but when the conditions... You go through county cricket and you ask a lot of county openers who we like in our day. We might not want to face Martin Bicknell or someone like that. But nowadays they would say Mohamed Abbas because he is incredibly skillful. So what England may have to think is take him into, and that's why sometimes Pakistan, even when he put in that brilliant performance in the West Indies, next game he's left out because they look at the pitch and think maybe a 75 mile an hour bowler on here. I mean, it's a worst nightmare for Rob Key again, the sort of bowler, as in the Ashes.

26:21Nas:They were a little bit quicker in the Ashes, but we carry up to the stumps. I think you can't do that much. You can't be charging down the pitch with Rizwan up. We've seen it's become a little bit of a nemesis for Root and Brook. So if they don't do that, then I've lost it with Pakistan. If the first ball, Mohamed Abbas, bowls to Brook and Root, Rizwan isn't standing three feet away, then something's gone wrong with their planning. So I think what they've got to do, England, is take him into those sessions where test cricket is hard, the pitch is flat, it's not doing anything. And then ask Mohamed Abbas, what have you got?

26:56Nas:Those great bowlers you mentioned there, Waqqa, Wazim, Imran, actually the later they got in the game and it started reversing, they got better. I think Abbas is quicker than you think. Yes, he's 77 miles per hour. He kind of nips it off the pitch, doesn't he? Off the pitch is quick, you know. That's what I always said that, you know, like sometime when the baller bowling 85 mile an hour and the balls die in the pitch, he kisses the surface and he goes through quicker.

27:22Ath:Which is why he's done well here in England. I mean, his record in county cricket is extraordinary. I remember when we picked him, he got 10th against Australia in Abu Dhabi. On that pitch, you know, like it's a flat pitch, but he has the skill. Yes, people say, OK, with the new ball, he has the skill, seam up. But with the reverse swing as well, he has a good control, and he can put the field keeper up, have mid-on, mid-on up, two catching there. And it can be hard work. That's why hasn't he played every game then?

27:53Nas:That's my question. You're our expert, we're asking the questions. Me, myself and Miki, we left in 2019 after the World Cup and then Misbah came in as a head coach with no experience of having it. And they went to Australia. This guy is one of the best, you know, Flinder and him are the best in terms of line and length. But they went to Australia and they didn't play him.

28:19Ath:It's a little bit like England, isn't it, Nass? They have a slightly wary reputation, the bowlers of 75, 77 and Rob Key. Because, as you mentioned, he talked about that and England determined to go with high pace down in Australia. But, I mean, I think it's fair to say that the history of recent test cricket since covered pitches, the faster bowlers generally have won more test matches. But you can be successful at that kind of mid-70s, late-70s, but you have to be extraordinarily skillful and accurate to do it.

28:55Nas:Yeah, and have a massive heart as well, because Test Match cricket is very, very hard, and you're probably at that pace bowling longer spells. I know you spoke to Joe about Joffre and saving him for the short spell, so something that maybe has been labelled at someone like Ollie Robinson or whatever. He's got the skill and he's quick enough, but can he come back for the third spell, fourth? the likes of Broad and Anderson, you're great bowlers. It's not just a skill thing, it's about ticker and heart and fight and character of coming back. So that's why I'm looking forward to next week, after what we've done the last few weeks, whatever you bowl, you know, 20 balls and you're done or whatever, to see the longer format which tests every single part of your game.

29:36Ath:Yeah, that's an interesting point, you're bowling 20 ball and now you're going to test match after day. the test matches are Leeds, Lourdes, Birmingham, how do you see the kind of conditions for your team and their chances of winning here for the first time in well it's 30 years really. Yeah absolutely if you see the condition here weather is really dry pitches are dry you know I can see down here it's a lush green so now you can see you are sitting in England but Everywhere I go, the pitches are dry. Which would traditionally play into Pakistan's strengths. Definitely, and they have two spinners.

30:14If you see the second test match they won, they went with two pacer and two spinners. Ali Usman got five for yesterday as well. He's a left-hand spinner. So if the condition dry a bit or become a spin-friendly condition, I think Pakistan got a really good chance to play in their favour.

30:32Nas:If you lose that first test, you can't be coming here and bringing your patio heaters and your big fans out. And we saw that. Were you part of that regime? Were you out there with the fan and the patio heater? I wasn't part of that. It happened overnight. Overnight, we found Masiya who was going to sort out the Pakistan cricket. Because the day before, first test match, we've been asked, you know, the guys who won't pass fitness test, they're going to go back home. All the spinners went home. They didn't pass the fitness test. We lost the test match and suddenly, Akib had this interview on social media.

31:07He became a selector, head of selector, and then Jason was there and they said drop Shaheen, drop Barbar Azam and he refused to do that. And they went back to chairman and chairman said, okay, now you will decide the final 11, not the head coach and captain. So that's what happened. That's the fan comes in and you know, it worked, it worked. 10 day old pitch and you end up winning that series. Unfortunately you won that series and you see the aftershock of that series. You can see it now where Pakistan cricket is standing.

31:41Ath:Are you going to be around and about? Going to watch the games or what are you up to? No, I'm going to go back, drive down to Leicester. My daughter is playing final tomorrow for under 14 Yorkshire. So we're going as family to watch her tomorrow. What does she do? Bat bowl all rounder? She's all rounder, she's bald like spin, I don't know where she gets from. And sometimes she's bad open and she's number three. Are you a nervous watcher when she's playing or are you okay? I said the other day, I'm not going to say it, she's going to kill me. One of them, they were playing against Kent, one of some guys who played cricket with me, and he said, oh, are you nervous watcher?

32:20I said no. I said, let me go and watch her. First of all, she turned it well, got her. She's going to kill me, please get this one

32:30Ath:Good luck to your daughter in the big game Great to see you, thanks for your time And yeah, let's hope for a great series ahead Looking forward for that

32:39Nas:Cheers, Adda

32:40Ath:OK, well the series kicks off against Pakistan on Wednesday Up at Headingley We'll be on air covering that at 10am in the morning And we'll have daily podcasts at the end of each day's play

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