A big summer for... Newcastle United

0:04Keith Downie:There will be a feeling of change this summer, I'm sure. I think you need to give players opportunities. We need to try things to a degree that we're looking at for the future with a view to next season and trying to leave this season with positivity to take into next one.

0:19Ron Walker:So, yeah, there is an eye on next season. Eddie Howe demanded Newcastle's closed season had to be different after a difficult summer on Tyneside 12 months ago. But is the fog on the tine descending around St James' Park again for Newcastle? I'm Ron Walker and welcome to this Newcastle summer special podcast. Newcastle fans, this might not be the positive tonic that you're looking for after the distraction of the World Cup, but we'll certainly try to give you some good news. I'm joined by a man who always has his ear close to the ground in the North East. It's Sky Sports News' Keith Downey. Keith, has it been nice to have the World Cup to concentrate on, maybe for Newcastle fans as a bit of a distraction, and maybe for yourself?

1:02Ron Walker:Not if you're Scottish, like me. Well, I didn't want to mention that, but at least you were there.

1:07Keith Downie:We were there. The fans were good. The football wasn't quite as good as far as Scotland are concerned. But look, that seems to be par for the course for Scotland when they do qualify. I think qualifying is winning for Scotland at the moment. Yeah, look, it's strange with the World Cup, isn't it? isn't it? Because it feels like it's delayed some transfers like we saw what's happened with Morgan Rodgers like the moment that England are out. With others it's not really played a part. I mean you look at Anthony Gordon if we're talking about Newcastle he wanted his future resolved before it started.

1:38Keith Downie:Some players are quite happy with the speculation and the noise surrounding them during the World Cup others aren't. So it's been a very unusual situation the World Cup but it does feel very much like this transfer window some of the clubs are trying to get their business done early, it feels like by and large clubs trying to get their business done earlier because they know that there's probably better value for money and then of course if they manage to get a few players out the door early, it then gives them time to try and add and look if you're going to ask me about Newcastle, the one thing they don't want is they don't want a repeat of last season where the transfer window and everything that went on with it seeped into their season and was, as you rightly say in your intro there, it was a cloud over the club at the start of the season And absolutely, they want to avoid that.

2:23Keith Downie:They're trying their best to avoid that. But as they're finding out, there's plenty of hurdles to overcome.

2:28Ron Walker:Yes, well, there's plenty of Newcastle questions, Newcastle transfer questions to ask you during this podcast. But just before we get underway, I did want to obviously touch on the passing, the tragic passing of Kevin Keegan at the start of this week. Such a legend on and off the pitch around Newcastle. What's the mood been like around the city off the back of that?

2:48Keith Downie:You know, it's been sombre. it came as a shock to many people, of course we knew that he was battling cancer that was announced, his family announced that back in January and then of course it was announced I think 6-7 weeks ago that he had stage 4 look I think it was he got admitted to hospital last week and it went downhill quite quickly afterwards so it has hit the city hard, it's hit the club hard we see the outpouring of love and emotion and the tributes and flowers that have been left. I spent some time on Monday at the stadium reading them. It's growing by the hour, growing by the day. It felt very much like every supporter I spoke to who came along to St James' Park to pay their respects had met Kevin Keegan at some stage.

3:36Keith Downie:You know, you don't get many managers like that. These days he was one of the people. He was in amongst them. He was posing for photographs. He opened the training ground up for fans. They used to have thousands of fans coming along to watch training on a daily basis and they would spend hours posing for photographs and signing autographs afterwards, the days before selfies. And he was just, he wanted that connection between the fans and the players to be there and I spoke to a number of fans who turned up at the ground and because the tributes were so good and some of the phrases and the words that they said were so strong, I decided to note a few of them down because I thought some of these were just amazing and this is what a few of the fans who turned up on Monday said to me he made us believe again he is the creator of our DNA.

4:23Keith Downie:Single-handedly he lifted the club off its knees not once but twice. Everything Newcastle is today is because of Kevin Keegan. He's the most important man in Newcastle's history. Without Kevin there would be no Alan Shearer, no Sir Bobby, no Champions League Knights literally no Newcastle United and I was stood between two statues, one of Sir Bobby Robson One of Alan Shearer And I said look should there be a statue Said a couple of fans Should there be a statue of Kevin Keegan And one turned round looked at the stadium And he said that stadium behind us That is Kevin Keegan's statue Because he created that And it's because of him that that's there When he came as a player There were only a few thousand Newcastle fans going to games So he saved the club once And in a second time He's not from the region He's from Doncaster 100 miles south But he's essentially an adopted Jordan And I think if you speak to most Newcastle fans if it was as huge as Sir Bobby Robson and Alan Shearer are they may feel that he did slightly more for the club I mean the three of them are stood high above everyone else but everyone's got a story to tell some really funny ones and they just don't make them like him anymore

5:30Ron Walker:No, a truly special man and he'll be missed on Tyneside but also much further afield as well As I said we've got a number of questions that are coming from we put the call out to Newcastle fans and they have responded. I'd say maybe a mixed mood, but I think the obvious place to start, and perhaps this is no surprise to you, is with the loss of Sandro Tonali and Anthony Gordon already and potentially Bruno Guimaraes to follow, how are Newcastle looking to fill in those gaps and that level of experience that they're missing as well?

6:01Keith Downie:Yeah, look, the model this year has changed. Look, they were always looking to bring in younger players, by and large, take away the transfer window immediately, the January transfer window immediately after the takeover when they were bringing in players like Dan Byrne and Chris Wood and Matt Target. Since then, they have been trying to bring in young players and improve them and sell them on at a profit. But the model's changed slightly in that they're now looking at players between the ages of 18 and 24, if they can, and between£20 million and£40 million. That's the kind of bracket that they're working on now.

6:35Keith Downie:They will push the boat out for certain players. We saw the club being very close to signing Johan Manzambi from Freiburg. the agreement there was just under£50 million so that's like a little bit over the £9 million over the£40 million they are willing to spend a bit more for certain players but by and large they're trying to stay within that framework so the models change, they're trying to bring in young players with a high ceiling that they can one improve at the club and either sell on a profit or two stay with the club for a long time and continue to excel on the pitch so it's not that different to what we have seen but it feels like the price the price tag they're looking at is a little bit cheaper I asked Sources at the club are you trying to be similar to like because it's quite similar to that sounds to what Brighton and Brentford do and they said no it's more like what Borussia Dortmund do bring in the young players improve them but while also improving the players and selling them on at profit they also want to be able to compete for honours at the top end of the table so no mean feat I remember the chief executive spoke in March and said we want to be one of the best clubs in Europe by 2030 30.

7:39Keith Downie:That's only in four years' time. They're going to have to get this ball rolling quickly. I can see why there's a lot of scepticism from their supporters because they're seeing big-name players leave. But at least with that, it's giving them a transfer kitty to spend. I just feel they need to get a couple of players in the door just to calm things down a bit. There's a frustration among the fans' base at the moment, a disappointment. I think the fans are beginning to question where the project's at at the moment. I think a couple of new signings in the door would just keep the tin lid on that a little bit.

8:07Ron Walker:Yeah, that does seem to be a lot of faith being put in quite young players if they do want to be pushing on and competing maybe for a Premier League within the next three or four years that these guys are not necessarily going to hit the ground running but they will hit those ceilings in a year or two and they'll need quite a few of them to do that I suppose to be reaching those high levels

8:24Keith Downie:Yeah they do but look they still want to keep a core element of experience I'm not saying they want a team of 18 to 24 year olds I'm just saying that's the sort of market that they're fishing in you do have experience there within the squad yes Tenale's gone yes Gordon's gone potentially Bruno Guimaraes but there are experienced players in there I just think what they'll do is they'll probably try and recycle for want of a better word players better and try maybe not to hold on to them for as long and sell them when they're at their highest value so they're trying to bring in young players that they think have got they've got a high ceiling you look at last summer's transfer window it was a disaster for more ways than one I've touched on it already for the ESAC situation and the cloud hanging over the club, but also the amount of money they spent.

9:10Keith Downie:And by and large, probably three, potentially four of those players haven't worked out and they spent£250 million. So at this moment in time, they are trying to make up for the mistakes that were made last year when there was no chief executive, there was no sporting director. Eddie Howe was working essentially with his hands tied behind his back. Yes, mistakes were made. I completely agree mistakes were made in terms of the recruitment, but it felt very much like all their bad recruitment. And there had not been much since the take-home. very very little it all happened it all happened at the one time but you're right a lot of pressure on these young guys that are coming in you know Bazuturi's arrived 40 million pounds Sean Stewart 20 rising to 23 and then the young goalkeeper Ewan Joen who I don't think is going to be the number one he was 18 million that just gives you an idea but I still think they're not ruling out experienced players but they are trying to bring in more players like that and we can see it already happening That brings me on

10:03Ron Walker:to one of the other questions that that there has been that desire to bring in those experienced players. I mean, Kieran Trippier may be the first and maybe best. I forgot about Trippier, yeah. When he first came in.

10:14Keith Downie:And I was with him yesterday.

10:15Ron Walker:So I mentioned Dan Burr, Matt Target and Chris Wood. I forgot the captain, Kieran Trippier.

10:19Keith Downie:I was with him yesterday. I should have remembered.

10:20Ron Walker:He might bring this up with you next time. Apologies, apologies. On that note, those kind of players, as you say, when they first started recruiting under this ownership, they were coming in and they seemed to be fairly good at recruiting those kind of players. And then we've seen most explicitly last summer how much they struggled with that. What's changed? Why are they finding that a little bit more difficult now?

10:41Keith Downie:But that wasn't the ownership, recruiting those players. The ownership were just saying, look, there you go, there's the money. They were leaving that up to the recruitment team at the football club to do that. But you've got to remember, when the takeover happened and Eddie Howe came in the following month, Newcastle were fighting relegation. They didn't need young 18, 19-year-old players coming in. They needed players who were going to help them in a relegation matter. That's why Trippier, Wood, Burn etc all arrived. Got them out of that. And let's be honest, they've stayed for Trippier. He's been there a few years.

11:10Keith Downie:Burn's been there a few years. They have done a good job. Since that window, they have gone for younger players. So in many ways, it's not really that big a change. It feels like though younger players that perhaps we've not heard of too much. Like players that are a bit maybe more obscure. I think, I hadn't really heard of Joven before I'd heard of Thuri but didn't know much about him I've not heard of the lad Stuart before Whereas when they signed Isak and they signed Tenale And they signed Botman We all knew of them, they were young players And they have improved them But just going back to the window, yeah you're right It was a really poor window last season But you do look at the previous Windows to that and you know As I say the model has always been to try and improve Players on the pitch and you look at The positive recruitment That's been done, Tenale signed for 55 sold for 100 Gordon signed for 40 sold for 70 Isak signed for 63 sold for 125 Premier League transfer on those three players alone that's a profit of around 135 million so they have been good it's just again I'll repeat myself it's a shame that all the bad recruitment and I say bad the jury is still out Wiss I could have a great season Alanga could have a great season Ramsey could have a great season Valtimad all or some of those guys could all have a great season coming up and suddenly that recruitment will look okay will look good or okay and you look at Eddie Howe's recruitment in the past and generally the majority of his players don't really hit the ground running it takes him a while to get used to his style of play his intensity sometimes it doesn't take as much as a year but I think the club are hoping that this break circuit break at the end of the season the World Cup and look at Wissa and Alanga both did well at the World Cup I think they're hoping these players are going to be come back refreshed ready to go again and to coin the phrase that nobody likes hearing feel like new signings

12:58Ron Walker:well you never know if they do hit the ground running at the start of this season we're going to take a short break don't go anywhere because when we come back we'll be talking about the impact that Eddie Howe might have on transfers where Newcastle want to strengthen this summer and how they can make the most of their finances stay tuned

13:20Ron Walker:hi there I'm Pete Graves and while you're enjoying this show I just wanted to let you know that we are back with another round of transfer talk where we'll be talking about who's on the move where they're going what they could bring to your team so if you don't already please like and subscribe you can watch 3Sky TV on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts see you soon

13:47Ron Walker:welcome back I'm Ron Walker and I'm joined by Sky Sports News Keith Downey talking all things Newcastle this summer. There's a question here about whether Eddie Howe has any impact in what has been potentially struggling to attract some of those bigger names. I think that's in relation specifically to Manzambi who has turned down Newcastle to go to Aston Villa but of course they can offer Champions League football aside from anything else.

14:08Keith Downie:Yeah look I think what's important to recognise here is that Johan Manzambi had agreed to come to Newcastle. He had agreed to personal terms. He was keen on the move. He just preferred Aston Villa. That was nothing against Eddie Howe. That was from And what I'm told, because Aston Villa are a Champions League club next season, Newcastle are. Now, people will say, well, hang on. Newcastle were a Champions League club last summer. And they were missing out on Hugo Eketiki and João Pedro and Benjamin Sesco. But they were missing out to Liverpool, Chelsea and Manchester United. Like more established, bigger name clubs to players on the continent.

14:42Keith Downie:Like they see them as bigger than Newcastle. They still, players like that. And I've said this a number of times. And this is what Newcastle fans I think need to accept. And I think they are accepting now. They need to accept that players arriving, Isak, Tonali, even Bruno Guimaraes, they see Newcastle as a stepping stone to them. And they're not seeing it. I think maybe when they arrived, they maybe saw it as a potential end point for them, potentially. And they were promised that, you know, Newcastle were going to be up fighting. But as the years have ticked by, four and a half, nearly five years since the takeover, Newcastle aren't fighting for the title.

15:09Keith Downie:Newcastle have won just the one trophy, as great as it was. They're not hitting those heady heights. So suddenly guys like Gordon and Tonali and Isak have gone, hang on, I've been here three years now, four years. I want to go and win trophies And I want to be in Europe I want to be in the Champions League every year So it's almost like the project hasn't moved as quickly As what the development of the players has And that's a lot down to how good How well Eddie Howe has coached these players And improved them alongside his coaching staff So going back to your question The fact Manzambi chose Villa over Newcastle I'm told I mean it was nothing to do with who the manager was It was to do with one they were a Champions League club And then you have to remember Freiburg Played Aston Villa in the final of the Europa League just what six, seven weeks ago so he'll have seen that outpouring of emotion when Villa won hammered them in the final and the fans and he's probably thought I'll have a bit of that that looks good.

15:59Keith Downie:Newcastle are just another Premier League club to him, he's not seen inside Newcastle, he's seen inside Aston Villa a bit and seen what went on that day and no doubt someone at the club has had a word in his ear at that point and I think a combination of those two things has allowed him to pick Villa over Newcastle Newcastle thought they had a deal done at one point, they were then it after the fee was agreed I have to say there was a real concern that Villa were there in the background I was hearing myself that Villa were there that wasn't getting stood up by colleagues at Sky who cover Aston Villa so we didn't run that story and then frustratingly three days later it broke that Aston Villa were hijacking the deal but I was aware of that the week before that Villa were there they were at the table they were trying to bring him in Newcastle were concerned so I think actually when the news broke that they had hijacked it I think Newcastle were almost Not relaxed about it, but they'd seen it coming.

16:50Keith Downie:They'd seen it coming. They'd had their fingers burned with Victor Munoz a couple of weeks previously, which has made everything feel a bit worse. And I think just that general narrative feeds into the fact Newcastle are struggling this window. And look, it hasn't been great, but as I touched on earlier, they beat Real Madrid to Jaune, they beat Brentford to Toure. I think the way Newcastle are looking at it, you win some, you lose some. They just need to win a few more at this moment in time just to calm everyone down a little bit. I think we can all, inside and out of being Newcastle supporters, see from the outside that they have made some mistakes in the past, let's say, year or two.

17:26Ron Walker:But does this one, maybe more than anything, come down to the fact that Manzami just wanted to decide his future after the World Cup and there's not a lot they could do about it?

17:32Keith Downie:Yeah, look, he left it open. He left it open. I was getting told he would decide his future after the World Cup. In all honesty, he probably knew deep down, but was keeping Newcastle at bay to see what happened with Aston Villa. I think he probably knew, given how quickly it happened after Switzerland exited the World Cup, he probably privately knew but was saying to everyone else, look, let's just, because he could have gone and scored a few more goals and a bigger club than Aston Villa could have come in for him and he could have chosen that. So he was leaving open for himself for a strong end to the World Cup.

18:00Keith Downie:He obviously picked up that injury. But just going back to players picking clubs and clubs losing out and people keep talking about Newcastle being hijacked again and again. and it did happen last window as I've mentioned already for different reasons due to the size and stature of the clubs who were in for Eketiki and João Pedro and Sesco and Mbumo etc this time it's the Champions League you know they've lost out to Villa and then they've lost out to Liverpool for Victor Munoz both those clubs in the Champions League but you look at other clubs as well no one's calling Arsenal hijacked FC because they've lost out on Morgan Rodgers who I think everyone thought was going to go there and Chelsea have come in last minute I think it's really easy for clubs and fans to put a label on their club and get themselves overly emotionally sort of down about things.

18:47Keith Downie:Look, you ask Newcastle, they're not down about it. They're disappointed they missed out on the players, but they're not low. They think they can go again. They're trying to improve and they have other targets. And I'm told that they're in talks with a number of players at the moment. Your next question is who those are. Sadly, I don't know.

19:03Ron Walker:And we asked you about some positions. That might be a little bit easier. Are there any, I'm assuming midfield would be the obvious one with Guimaraes potentially on his way out and Tonali already gone. Yeah, they need another midfielder. If Guimaraes goes, potentially too.

19:17Keith Downie:Will it potentially on his way out as well? Yeah, he's one that I would expect to leave this window. I think there's probably question marks still about Harvey Barnes, whether he stays. I know there's some interest from Aston Villa. Of course, Bruno's the big one. Nick Pope. There's a few players who've been there for a number of years now who probably their time at the club's coming to an end. The priority right now is bringing in a goalkeeper. and a full-back who can play either side. So they want to bring in. So they've got Tino Livermento who can do that. They're keen to tie him down to a new deal.

19:47Keith Downie:Nothing's been agreed as of yet, but there was interest in him in this window. That appears to have cooled, I think mainly due to the injuries he's picked up. Maybe a couple of clubs have maybe just cooled their interest a little bit. So they want to bring a full-back. They want to bring a goalkeeper. They would like to bring at least one midfielder. And then if Jacob Murphy goes, I reported last week that Everton are interested in him. If Jacob Murphy does go, that would then open up a slot to bring in another right winger as well. I think they'll go with the strikers they've got unless one goes.

20:16Keith Downie:And I look at who they've got. I don't see Osula going. I don't see Valtomad going. Wissa, I think there's a slight chance. If someone comes in and makes a decent offer for him, there is a chance. In which case, they would obviously look to bring in a replacement there. I'm missing someone striker-wise. Well, obviously Gordon's away now. But yeah, I think they'll probably go with what they've got in the striking department unless one goes. But look, I remember sitting here this time last year talking about numbers and positions and then things changed massively when Isak went. So it is a very fluid situation.