Arsenal move six points clear despite being held to a frustrating goalless by Liverpool

24:08Did they do what you expected? Yeah. Can you elaborate on that? Well, you can see the game. I knew that if they were pulling a lot of midfielders in, you know what they're going to have. I knew that they're not going to be very aggressive in the high press. After they're going to want to start to drop everybody, with Virts playing as a false nines and being difficult to press them if you don't regain the ball in the next three or four passes. And that's what we expected. Then we had some moments where we had the right position and advantages to really help them. When we got into these areas, we lacked that quality to pick the player and score the ball.

24:42Maybe a few balls flashed across their goal mouth that you would have wanted someone on the end of? Two or three times. That victory is completely free between the keeper and the centre-backs. and a lot of situations that we get there. The final one that we have an incredible cross from Noni and Gabi is there, normally it's a goal. And it is not, but that's football. We come from a very, very demanding schedule. The last six games that we play in this Christmas period and we've come out of that in a really strong position. So just in terms of maybe not only Jokeres but probably every attacking player on both sides having a difficult night, would you say that's more down in Victor's case to a lack of supply to him than anything he did right or wrong tonight.

25:23No, he did a lot of things right. At the end, the ball has to arrive there to have the opportunity to do it. And you're playing against two world-class centre-backs as well. They know very well what to stop you. That's why they are the champions. Can you just tell us, you've obviously worked with them for a long time, the type of character Gabriel Martinelli is, because there's obviously that moment at the end where it looks like Conor Bradley might be seriously injured and it goes to roll him off the pitch. Has he just made a mistake there, your player? Probably he doesn't, no, because knowing Gabby is zero intention.

25:52I don't know what happened to Connor. Hopefully it's not bad, but obviously there is no intention from Gabby to do anything bad to him. Thank you for answering that. Just summing up the whole period then, you touched on it already. I think you went into the Everton game just before Christmas, actually at kick-off, second in the table. You come out of that schedule six points clear. So overall, I guess you feel really positive about what you've done over the last few weeks. I think the desire and the quality of the boys showed in this period, which is the most demanding one through the year, to do what they've done, big credit to them.

26:27And as I said, coming out through that period, in the position that we are, I think we have to be proud. There are things to improve, as always, and today we're going to get a few of them to be better, and we keep going. So it doesn't feel like too much of an opportunity missed tonight? You want to take all of them, but if that's the case, we will be 12 points, 15 points ahead, you know, and this is the Premier League, and we all know how difficult it is. Thank you. Thank you.

26:53Well, that was interesting. That is the target. That remains the target for Arsenal, winning their first title since 2004 and runners-up in the last three years. It's now 22 years, or it would be. And so, of course, it's going to be tense, but in the context that Arsenal actually led by two points on Christmas Day and moving on to the 27th, City actually went first that day. So Arsenal went into their game in second place, as Patrick was explaining there to Mikel Arteta. He didn't need reminding, actually. But from that point, to be behind and now to be leading six points, then surely that is something that Arsenal have to be very happy about, Roy.

27:29I'd be very pleased when he spoke well there, the manager, a lot of common sense. Listen, of course, they've got big challenges. Disappointed with the performance, I suppose, tonight. But a clean sheet, another point, and you're six points clear after 21 games. What a position to be in. Absolutely fantastic. But you have to believe Man City and Aston Villa will keep trying to hunt them down. There'll be interest in the next few weeks in terms of the transfer window. Will players obviously, will clubs strengthen? We'll see what City were going to do. Will Arsenal strengthen? But at this moment in time, Arsenal obviously red-hot favourites to win that title.

28:01But might they see it as a missed opportunity, Daniel, by the same token? No, I think they'll be pleased with the point. Of course, the first half performance, they would have thought that they could have scored there. But look, they're comfortable at the top of the league right now. they've been performing very well and being over the Christmas period, I mean, you know, the manager will be very proud of his team considering, you know, where they've come from and all that they've put into this season, he's got to be happy. Well done for maintaining your poise as Gary arrives. Dishevelled. In a heap next to you.

28:38We were just hearing from Mikel Arteta, Gary, welcome back, on whether this was a missed opportunity or whether they should actually be really happy with where they are. Six points clear having been two points ahead at Christmas. I think both. I mean, I don't think he'll let that performance go tonight without thinking it's disappointing that his team haven't turned up. It's such a big game where the crowd were ready. It wasn't a celebration night where they were going to win the league, but it felt like a big monumental moment where they could go and get that eight points clear. Statement victory, everybody watching.

29:09But brilliant what Liverpool did in the second half. It's very difficult to actually turn a performance around when you're so defensively minded like they were to go and then flip it into a dominating possession-based performance in the second half. That was the big surprise. I think it shocked Arsenal. That took the steam out of Arsenal, didn't it? It's not as if they were counter-attacking them. They were just looking after the ball and took the sting out of the game. Extra bodies in midfield. OK, there's no cutting edge going forward, but they controlled the game in the midfield area and Arsenal kind of didn't know what to do.

29:40It was a case of moments, wasn't it, Daniel? Mikel Arteta referred to it there. these moments when they got to the byline a couple of times and got the ball back, but there wasn't somebody there to put them away. Talk to me about Jokeres, Daniel. Well, I was just about to ask that question, because he had seven touches in the game, Daniel. He remains a little bit of an enigma. It's difficult, to be honest. It is difficult when you're the centre forward and your job is to pin them back. What's difficult? I think the job is to occupy the centre halves. You've got the wingers out here who are causing problems in one-on-one actions, and the movement and the timing is what it's all about.

30:17Do you see the runs from him, though, in the box that go across defenders or go across goalkeepers or get across the near post? When the ball's in those wide areas, I get the fact that he might be being smothered in the general play and it's difficult to get involved in the game. This is Gabriel Dresge's now. Yeah. You know, I feel for me that these are the spots that you want your centre forward to be in. Those are the types of balls you want. I think that the issue that Giocares is having at times is that his job is to pin the centre-halves back. You know, Gary, you've worked with me, and I've been told, Daniel, stop dropping deep to get touches, stay up top and occupy the centre-halves, make your runs, occupy them, give us more room.

31:00But I think doing that, you get less touches because if your team's a ball-dominant team that aren't penetrating centrally, Arsenal's game is get it wide and get crosses in the box. So it's about his movement and saying, OK, I'm going to go near post, I'm going to go far post, this and that. But because they're facing low blocks, there's a bank of maybe four or five defenders. So it is sort of difficult for him. Maybe he needs to say, I'm going to go across the front post. Maybe I'm going to pull out and give them an option for a cutback. But again, you've got Rice making runs, you've got Marino making runs, you've got all these players.

31:31So it's going to be difficult for him. Is that just good movement? It is good movement, Roy, but I also feel like the way the team plays, they have goal scorers everywhere, but they have also goal scoring wingers. And it's very difficult when you're the focal point, but you're not the first option. I don't look at him being the first option in the team. Like, we're looking for you at every action. Harry Kane, when you see him, he's the first option. You know, there's a lot of players who are the first option. I don't think Jokeres is the first option. I know what Daniel means, because when Arsenal get it in wide areas, they do play that extra pass.

32:04they don't tend to put it into the box at a point whereby it's predictable for the man in the middle to know when to make the run. So I get that a little bit. If you think about sometimes, Mo Salah cuts on his left foot or Mahrez when he was at City, you know they're going to drift that ball in, you can make a run off the back of knowing it's coming. There is a bit with Arsenal whereby on the sides, Saka might play a little ball into timber, then it'll come back and then it'll go back and they'll recycle it. And he might have made two or three little runs. So maybe there's a bit of that, but when the ball does fly across that box, I just don't sometimes see it Does Alvaro De Stryker then adapt into his teammates not the other way around, do you know what I mean?

32:38It is, I think you do have to adapt as a forward and you've got to be ready to do that but I don't know if we can judge Giocarez on goals this year I'm just being transparent So Daniel, on that performance tonight then if he's had seven touches in the game and he's occupied centre-halves a little bit do you think he's played the best part of an hour I think what do you think the reflection would be from his coach on what he added to the game this evening? I think the coach said you did what we wanted you to do. Do you think so? I think, look, if you look at Manchester City, and I'm not comparing Giocares to Haaland, how many times have we talked about Haaland not touching the ball often?

33:16He's only touched it four times this half, six, seven, eight times. I think just the way Arsenal play and the way Giocares plays, it's not a perfect match, but I think he's a very good centre-forward who's won the golden shoe. He scored, what, 60-70 goals? Mindstrikers don't do much, but when it comes into the box, they're sharp and they're alive to it. He's in the box the way he's outside the box. He just looks a bit sluggish and lacks that real quality. Maybe confidence as well. I'm interested to see what Daniel... I mean, look, I'd be interested to know what Mikel Atatürk is actually thinking and saying to Jokeres in respect of his performance tonight.

33:47Because I think I agree with Roy in the sense that I actually am not bothered about what he does outside the box, but I would expect... I was actually quite excited about Arsenal having a sort of focal point centre-forward, because I think that's what they miss. But I was expecting when that ball flies across that box, I'd just see him sort of like charging and sliding and just sort of getting on the end of it. But then he sometimes doesn't quite make that real definite run. You know what I would say? Those chances we showed, right? Where we showed De Trossard and we showed De Saka, actions, they were all cutbacks.

34:17They're not crosses where you're looking and going, where are you? Now, the one at the end, you would say, if Giocarez is on the pitch, maybe he's in that area, which is the corridor of uncertainty. That's his favourite. Rice put a great one in the first half. Was that Rice? Was it Rice put a great one? but we're sitting there going where's your striker? For me with strikers and with midfielders and wingers the key is understanding your teammates and knowing timing that's the best thing I'm sure for you and for you during your careers your strikers and your wingers will talk to you go listen I want it here when that happens I'm going to make that run those are the conversations you have to have if you don't have those you're not going to get chances it's just not going to happen With or without a goal tonight they've gone six points clear but it's not just the Premier League of course that Arsenal have got their minds on and actually the time of the season when they start to think about other competitions as well with the FA Cup this weekend at Portsmouth then the first leg of the Carabao Cup semi-final at Chelsea next Wednesday and also the Champions League where they look home and host pretty much through the first phase of that competition.

35:16Is that helpful Gary when you are trying to hunt down your first league title for 22 years to have these other distractions? It's inevitable because if you're going to win your first league title for the first well first time in a long time, the likelihood is that you're going to have finished in the top four this season before, so you'll be in the Champions League. The FA Cup's always started in January. And for Arsenal now, obviously, they have the Carabao Cup as well, don't they? So, look, the Carabao Cup is the one that maybe adds the sort of added complexity to it. But the Champions League and the FA Cup are always going to be there in January for them.

35:49It's that Carabao Cup semi-finals that they've got against Chelsea, which are big games sandwiched in there. But you look at the teams that have gone, I think, is it Jurgen Klopp? I think Mourinho, I think other managers who've gone on to win titles have gone and won the Carabao Cup first. They've used that as a springboard. I know when we hadn't won the title for three years in 2004 through to 2006, I think then we won the Carabao Cup first the year before. It gives young players who haven't won the title before a lot of confidence. So I think if Arsenal can go and win the Carabao Cup, get a medal round the necks, that really could catapult them forward.

36:20I remember two years ago, Arsenal were out of every competition and everyone said it was Griff. I think it was two or three years ago in a really good position and they were all over every competition and people were saying, oh, it's great, Arsenal have a clear run at the league and they ran out of steam at the end of it. I know they have a stronger squad now, but they're the challenges you face because these games coming up, including the Chelsea game, they are going to be physically and emotionally more draining, but they do have the squad to deal with it. That's why they've spent so much money.

36:44Do they actually need those games, though, Roy, to actually satisfy some of these players who aren't getting Premier League minutes? Yeah, because what happens, again, if you start playing tricks in your head going, oh, we need three weeks, and then lads are agitated it all week and you're trying to do training sessions, I think the games, I think players before playing games, particularly if you're winning, that gives you momentum, it gives you a little routine going, we're not even training really, we're just getting ready for games, particularly if you're winning. To me that gives you momentum instead of being out of every competition and going, we've not got a game for another week.

37:11I think it's the games you need, I think it's good for your sharpness, it's good for the rhythm of the team and when you've got a big squad, it gives players opportunity to go and play some games. Lots coming Arsenal's way that is for sure and Liverpool can be really proud of their work tonight. A point here. I've beaten in 10 now. A lot of people thought it wasn't going to be Arna Slott's night. But they certainly grew into the game as well in the second half of this contest. His thoughts next. And we'll also touch on Manchester United as well.

37:46Hello, Andy Scott here, host of the Sky Sports Toe-to-Toe podcast. alongside a host of top guests we're here every tuesday bringing you the very latest boxing news and we go toe-to-toe with the biggest names in the sport so if you love boxing join me on toe-to-toe wherever you listen to your podcasts that's toe-to-toe a sky sports podcast

38:17Welcome back to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast. Let's get back to the studio for more reaction to today's game. Well, Liverpool arrived here tonight having conceded 18 away goals, the same as bottom side Wolves, but a clean sheet here at the Emirates tonight to hand them a well-earned point. Here is Arna Slott with Patrick Davison. You said in the run-up to this match we have the quality to go there and put up a fight. Did you absolutely show that tonight? Yeah, I think we did. In the first half, they were the team that played most on our half. It led to a few moments of crosses but not too big chances, I think.

39:04and in the second half it was exactly the opposite, where we dominated ball possession for almost the whole 45 minutes played in their half. So, the only thing that missed maybe from my side for our team was that, again, not for the first time, from all that ball possession, all that moments around the box, you were hoping to create even more chances. but against an Arsenal team that had so great momentum, still have great momentum, to put a performance like this is something I'm very positive about. Why did the game change so much in your favour in the second half? I think there were already spells in the first half where we showed how good we are in ball possession.

39:52But we kept on doing that in the second half and then we kept them on their 18-yard box and when they kicked away, we picked up the ball again. But even in the first half, our maybe biggest chance of the game also came from 15, 20 passes in a row, I think. So I saw a lot of good moments in the first half. Second half, I think the way we defended was a bit better than the first half. We had to adjust one or two details. Can you tell us what those details were? No, it wasn't that much, but there was constantly a three against two that we had to defend. and I mean they're two centre-backs with their number six and I think we did that better in the second half than the first half which made it even more difficult for them to get in the positions they did get in the first half.

40:40And in combination with us being good on the ball, I'm maybe in the end still a little bit disappointed that we didn't win but a good performance. Does it feel like a performance that's a big step forward? Or is it just the case that actually for most of the season you've actually been quite good in these big games, it's the different types of games against low blocks, lower teams in the division, that just don't suit you as well at the moment? I've said 150 times already that against certain opposition, certain playing styles we're a very good team and against certain playing styles we struggle.

41:19and maybe you could even see that today although people are now positive that we kept the ball so long but even against the low block of Arsenal we struggled to create chances so that is something we would like to do better but in all the big games we played this season I think except maybe for City away although there was a big incident that went against us just before half time and I think for all the other games we've showed that we can compete with any other team but we've struggled too much against low blocks that's why we are as one of the reasons so many points behind them. And of course, it's good that we show going into the second half of the season that we can compete with any team in England, but I think also in Europe.

42:01What is possible in the second part of this season for Liverpool? A gap between you and Arsenal is 14, which, I don't know, you tell me, It seems like too much, but obviously there are, in terms of qualifying for the Champions League, the Champions League itself, there is still an awful lot to play for. Yeah, and don't forget the FA Cup, which is the next game coming up.

42:26Let's first hope that the injuries you have will come back as soon as possible, but I'm afraid that another injury has come up today. Let's hope for the best, but I fear the worst for Conor Burnley. Did that upset you at the end, not just the injury, but the way particularly Gabriel Martinelli handled it?

42:50I think if a player of us is on the floor, people might know by now that that is... Normally I say 99 out of 100 times, or maybe I should say 100 out of 100 times, then there's something wrong with that player. And I think you could see this. So, yeah, you don't like to see a player being moved if he might have such a big injury. So, yeah, that was indeed an incident that happened, that I didn't like to see one of my players being moved out of the pitch if he might have such a big injury, which we don't know yet, but it might be. Thank you. You're welcome. Well, that is a great, great shame. and we do hope that Conor Bradley's injury is not too bad, but his manager is obviously very concerned right now.

43:40Ten unbeaten now for Liverpool, and Arnaz Slott's side didn't have a goal to straw in his first 83 matches in charge, and now he's had two in a week. But this run has taken Liverpool into fourth place in the Premier League, 14 points off the top still, but eight behind City and Aston Villa. And they're in a scrap, it seems, right now for Champions League football. Or should we be expecting or hoping more from Liverpool, Daniel? More? Champions League is what they need to aim for. You see how tight it is there. A few bad results and it could go downhill. So, look, tonight was a good performance from the team and they've strung together an unbeaten run.

44:28but the points suggest even if you're on B-1, it doesn't really matter. There's so many teams, it's so close, that they've got to get a run of wind, is what they need. But they'll take a lot of confidence from tonight. They worked so hard and the manager's game plan was great. They'll go back to the drawing board and once they get those players back fit, they'll look to go after it. Did you have your questions on Liverpool answered this evening? What were my questions? I can't remember what they were. You were... You wanted to know why they dropped off so much. I think that's still the mystery of why they've dropped off so much from last season.

45:04But what I said before the game was that they had nine of their best 11 players out on the pitch that would have played in their starting 11. And to be fair, I think that proved it tonight because I think those nine players, along with the other two, did a very good job. They were really good. They obviously missed Salah, Eketike, Izak. They missed that sort of ruthless killer up front. But I think they can... We've accused Liverpool of being flaky at moments this season where they've fallen apart in games tonight. I thought they were really good at and it shocked me after say I say to switch a game from being so defensive in the first half and being dominated in possession to then go and control in the game the second half is you know I thought was really good for loophole I think he could really better the only the only bad thing tonight is the kind of Bradley and I thought was a really bad one that it's just a situation as well I hope Marcel has gone in to apologize to him in the dressing room do you expect him to have done that a hundred percent a hundred percent the minute he knows that that lad's injured.

45:54Look, no football... I genuinely believe football players, deep down, are all good lads and, to be fair, there's a competitiveness to them, there's an emotion. You get it. He obviously thinks that he's trying to waste time at the end of a game, Martinelli, but I think you could see that that was a bad one. He throws the ball at him, he then chucks him over. I mean, it looks like he's been stretched off and what Arna Slott said, it's not good. I hope that Martinelli has gone into the Liverpool dressing room or into the treatment room where Connor Bradley is and has said, I'm really sorry, I should not have done that.

46:22I'd like to think that's happened. You talked about them as being poor champions before the game, Roy. If that is their level, and Dominic Subozlai sort of hinted that he wanted that to be the level moving forward, can it still turn out to be a good season for them? I think, listen, all the talk before the game, most people coming here tonight would have probably felt if Arsenal had the very best to win the game. But we'd have to give Liverpool credit. The way they turned up showed a bit of fighting spirit. And they're up against, you can see, they're not quite at their very best. But they've got their own battles going on.

46:51Their battle is for fourth. so I would give Liverpool credit tonight but I still think they should be doing better on what they have over the season but I understand the challenges they've faced if they turn up like that and show that bit of spirit and bit of quality then they will finish in that top four and considering where they were a couple of months ago if you'd offered that to Liverpool they probably would have took it they've got European football obviously the managers there have mentioned the FA Cup so Liverpool getting one or two players back still have the potential of a very good season Did you think it was a penalty?

47:17Obviously I was on commentary did you think the Shrossard on Virts 1 was a penalty or not? now we can have another look at it now Gary there was a lot of love for it I think it was like that with that just wouldn't what you thought in the studio I'd not obviously not you know I don't listen to what you're saying straight after the game I have a question though because you know when you say poor champions right what is a good champion no honestly it's a genuine question like a good defense like when you say they're poor champions what what they saw my offer to be so many points behind what really good champions do they win it again that's the key to for big clubs if you win the league surely the following year I mentioned there when they're one of a club the following season this is there I will come back to that conversation because it's an interesting one but this is what Gary was talking about there if it was given do you think would have been overruled probably not it was it was look is a risky one more it was look at that there anyone's on the pitch yeah me do these penalty or not I think that's a pen yeah I do but I from it's one of them you just me you You lose your confidence a little bit now.

48:20Honestly, you're on that, Gary. We've played with you for a long time. No, you lose your confidence now and thinking, what's a penalty? Is that a penalty? Is it not? Is it a dive? I just thought, you know, that's a foul, isn't it? It's a foul. It always looks worse when it's slowed down. Yeah, probably. If they say, go to the screen, that's the pen. Yeah, it's all right, yeah. You didn't say this at the time. I'm pretty sure it didn't say this at the time. At the time, we didn't see the replay. Dave, that's why... You're watching a game? At the time, I was watching it on the VR. I'm watching the replay.

48:47I'm thinking, is that a penalty? We were all looking back there. Any more penalties? There were a couple of close calls, weren't there? Because Frimpong also had a bit of contact, which is why he went over on his ankle in that first half. I think everyone had said in here, if that one had been given on the field, it wasn't going to get overturned. That is for sure. What's a good champion? When you're back competing at the very top, we mentioned about Liverpool when Klopp won it, was it five, six years ago, there were 30-odd points off worse the following year for big clubs like Liverpool. and this year, come back to last year, after 20 games, they're 13 points worth of.

49:21Can I ask a question?

49:26Do you think Liverpool will finish above Manchester United? Yeah. Would you have said... The difference is only two points right now. There's obviously been quite a lot of change at Manchester United over the past week. There's probably going to be a lot more change over the next week. Yeah, of course. Again, it depends on managers and recruitment in the next few weeks. I think Liverpool obviously have definitely gone through a difficult spell but I could be wrong United still have the potential going forward but look at the goals again United gave away last night I think defensively as poor as Liverpool have been, United are worse so if you're asking me where you are I think Liverpool will finish out of United I said no about five, six weeks ago because I looked at United's games against Everton, Bournemouth West Ham, Leeds, Burnley was it?

50:12One more? Leeds, Burnley, Wolves West Ham, Bournemouth, Everton six games and those teams are losing games all over the place apart from Leeds. Bournemouth, Everton, West Ham, Burnley, Wolves all losing matches every week. And Manchester United have picked up five points out of 18. They should have had 10, 11, 12 points out of those games and they haven't done. I think they've missed their opportunity to steal ahead of Liverpool in a period where Liverpool are struggling a little bit and dropping points. I think now, no, I don't think they will, but they should be. they'll kick themselves Manchester United for how they've performed in this last few weeks which is end up and the manager being well, sacked there's a bit of arrogance to somebody even the game last night against Burnley you're 2-1 up Bruno's your best player to take Bruno after 60 minutes because they're managing him after Hamstring he's only been up for two weeks they were only 2-1 up they're 3-4-1 up a bit of arrogance I want to take Bruno we mentioned earlier that was the plan before the game is that not the medical staff making that decision we got told before the game that Bruno was going to be 60 minutes that was the feeling before the game or Bruno's back but it'll only be 60 minutes I love that chat with physios in sports like well he's gonna have 60 minutes you're 2-1 up you know you're trying to get the champions either compete with Liverpool to finish top four and you're taking your best player off after 60 minutes and when you're only 2-1 up.

51:28I think there's a threat to lose him though Roy if he re-injures or whatever it may be so you could argue that they've not been injured for the last 56 years and all of a sudden he's gonna get loads of injuries he's played the hour he only got injured two weeks ago, a bit if he's coming back after eight, nine months where you're thinking it's a risk. If you're that unsure about him, you're playing Burnley. Don't play him against Burnley. Don't take him off that 60 minutes where 2-1 up with Man United. A bit of arrogance to it. You're 2-1 up against Burnley. Burnley are fighting for their lives.

51:51I think this is a similar problem for Enzo Morescu at Chelsea, wasn't it? Going back to Liverpool and the poor champions question, I think we need to make sure that we go back to the start of the season. When Liverpool signed those players, everybody nearly to a fan was saying, this will be Liverpool dominant for a number of years. Hang on, hang on, you were there saying it as well. You were there saying it as well. My friend James Cameron. When was I saying that? No, Bob was saying it. Most people, don't include me in... I didn't say that. The narrative at the time, including, to be fair for me, I thought Liverpool would be around for two, three, four, five years, winning title.

52:28I didn't put them to win the title this year. I thought Arsenal would. I thought Liverpool would be knocking on the door for a number of years with the transfer business that they did. So the reason that they're poor champions this year is because everyone expects it at the start of the season off the back of winning it. They spent 450 million, Daniel. I understand. Hold on, look, look. 150 million pounds. See, look, this is the issue I have, right? I'm not having a go at you here, Daniel. I love you not. But this is the issue I have, right? How many back-to-back champions have there been in Premier League history?

52:52Well, Liverpool's done it a number of times. Premier League, I'm talking about the actual Premier League itself. You guys were dominant. City were dominant. I think Chelsea. Other than that, who's done it? So we're talking about four champions. But why can't Wickel do it? Winning a title back-to-back is clearly the hardest thing. You two gentlemen did it. I'm not about winning back-to-back, but I'm not about competing. Yeah, but you're saying... But to be near the top... So you're saying, you said you want the team to go ahead and win it the next season, and I'm saying that... Get as close as you can, not be 15 or 20 points behind.

53:23We give how many managers excuses or teams excuses when there's a plethora of signings that come in, we go, the manager needs time. Arnest Lott inherited a squad. He won the league with that squad. The expectation level wasn't for him to go and win the league with that squad. He's done something nobody expected him to do. This season, he's got all the tools you can think of in the toolkit. Now, all of a sudden, the expectation is, go ahead and do it again. Now we're seeing him manage a new squad. Of course. But now we're seeing him manage a new squad with a plethora of players. The starting right-back's gone.

53:56The starting centre-forward's gone. There's backup players gone as well. Players who would fill in injuries. Of course, I mentioned Diogo Jota. We're not having to go out on a slot. No, I know we're not. But we're saying the expectation of poor champions, and I'm saying I don't agree with that. No, but I think where it comes from is that, look, I think the most disappointed people, to be fair, will be Arna Slott, Virgil van Dijk, Mo Salah, that they're not challenging again this season. I think they'll be really disappointed that they've not kicked on from last season. Those£450 million worth of signings were almost like, wow, Eketike, Isaac, Verts.

54:30You were like, this is going to be almost like the Harlem Globetrotters at one point. you're thinking it's like wow what is this going to look like this is going to be unbelievable you know if you're a Liverpool fan they're all saying we're going to score like 100 odd goals and rightly so by the way I can see you enjoying this no I'm not Daniel this is not a terse conversation yeah I see it I see it in your eyes I see it in your eyes I love you can I have his jacket. You can take it off my neck. You have a hoodie. You look smart anyway. You've had your say on Manchester United as well. You've had your say on Liverpool.

55:05I want to get Roy on Manchester United. What's happened actually there? To leave this situation now where Darren Fletcher is in charge. There is talk of this interim manager who's going to come in until the end of the season when the next one is going to arrive in the summer. How do you see this? I don't know, really. What do you think about the Darren Fletcher appointment? Do you think that's the right one?

55:28I'm not really too bothered. I'll be honest with you. Because you don't know what decisions they're making at the top. In terms of, they brought the manager in last year. He came new to the league, new to English football. All the staff were new to English football. Most of the players over the last few years were getting used to the Premier League. So what's happened the last few weeks, the way they've sacked him. Obviously, he didn't seem to have the players on side. But did Burnley come up? I think they'll probably beat Burnley if they're really at it. They have a cup game coming up. They have a city.

55:55So the timing wasn't great. He's obviously had a follow-up with Wilcox. Do I think Fletch can do a good job for a few weeks, a few months? I'm sure he could. He's talked about... Do you not think the players were on side with Ruminam and Roy? No, I... I always thought they actually liked him. I don't know... I'm not saying they were offside with him, but I don't think they were fully... To me, they weren't putting the hard yards in week in, week out. Darren Fletch has talked about, you know, returning to traditional Manchester United values and energy and a four at the back and calling to Alex Ferguson the first thing he did.

56:24They played four at the back last night. and they couldn't get the job done against Boroughly. Would you approve of that approach? It doesn't really matter what I think because they went back to four last night. Fletch, I heard Fletch talking before the game. He's talking about they've done the prep really well and he's tanked 20 of his staff. Johnny Evans, every time Dick and Harry and the ex-United player, there's obviously a job waiting for any of them. But you want someone to come into that dressing room and get a grip of a dressing room with some really good players and people like Bruno and get them onside and tell them to do the hard yards.

56:57I've said it before, and I'll repeat myself. Last night, typical example of United. Not bad going forward, score to goal, but they don't do the hard yards. So you've got to get a manager to get a group of players in to say this is the direction we're going. Do I think Fletcher's the man to do it? Absolutely not. He's obviously stepping in to do it for a few weeks and a few months. And he might win a few games. If they go with Oli, whatever, good luck to whoever comes in. I wish him well. They need to get a top manager in there to get a grip of that dressing room. And obviously part of management, as we know, is managing upwards.

57:24So whoever's making the decisions above the manager, which they will be, people like Wilcox, etc., that's part of your management skills. But this can be good luck to Fletch. It feels like we're going round the block, because I asked you this question seven years ago about Ole Gunnar Solskjaer going back in there, potentially. But is that the right choice right now? You could throw 20 names at me. It obviously says the same thing. Whoever goes in, you wish him well. Do I think it's the right or wrong answer? I don't know, but if it is to the end of the season, I think Ole would do all right to the end of the season.

57:53I see Oli as the manager for the next four or five years, getting United back competing, then probably not. Do you have a name? Who'd I go with? I'd go with Eddie Howe. Why? I like him. I like what he's done. He's managed a lot of games. When his teams are at it, they play good football. I know it's not for everyone. He'd have his critics. I like what he's done at Newcastle. Even at Bournemouth, he's managed 700, 800 games. He's still a young man. I like his... I love his calmness. I think sometimes Man United maybe need a little bit of that. We've seen the previous manager going in. I like people who are in emotion.

58:30Obviously, I'm quite an emotional person. But I think his calmness, what he's done at Newcastle, Chapman's League a couple of times, winning the cup.

58:40I'd be happy to see him going there. I think it'd be difficult to get him, obviously. But I do think United need a man-manager. someone who can get the best out of the players. I think that a lot of the time, you know, the manager will come in and want to change a lot of things and in turn, you know, you probably do need a manager who's going to come in and look at the dressing room and go, these are the types of players we have. System-wise, you need to find the right manager for the system and the players you actually have. Do you want to go and buy five or ten players again or do you want to look at your...

59:11Sorry, Dan, you want someone to walk into your dressing room and when the players are sitting there, as soon as he walks in, you go, here we go. for going places. Actually, what? Personality. People talk about CVs and coaching and tactics and system. You want somebody to walk in that dressing room and get a grip of these players. I don't mean in an aggressive way, but just get that belief in the players and go, this is the way we're going. We're going to start running hard. We're going to slip into the football. We're going to be attacking, blah, blah, blah. We're going to be hard to beat. We're going to do the hard yards.

59:36We're going to run properly. We see teams like Arsenal City over the last few years. The reason they're competing at the top is what they're doing out of possession. We've seen Arsenal again tonight. It's poor as they've been. They've kept a clean sheet. the pride United last night the standard of the game United Burnley was a joke absolute joke everyone after the game well I wasn't bad yeah we done well blah blah blah nonsense absolute rubbish for just you mentioned it ever going on in circles who's gonna go in any X United players got a chance telling you not any don't fancy it right okay oh yeah sorry yeah just to clarify you haven't had a call

1:00:20and you have to be able to manage the pundits as well as the mags united manager not just the players that right

1:00:30it's tiring dave it is massively look it's just tiring as an ex-united player people think oh Honestly, it's just tiring watching it. And I don't think we're asking for a lot, because a few weeks ago when I watched the games against Bournemouth, Newcastle, Villa, which actually one game of those was lost and one was drawn, so it's not exactly amazing. I was actually really happy that there was an excitement and a level of decent football, and it looked like there was a bit of a thrill back in the performances. But for so long, over 12 years, the football's been really poor. Well, what happens in these job interviews?

1:01:01I'm intrigued why they keep giving certain people a job. What happens in interview that they sit there and go and then 12 months 14 months later got he's not the guy for us You know so set up when you speak to you look at somebody in the eye and go and you see who's making the decision at Man United You still have Ferguson and David Gill hanging on like a bad smell who's making the decisions Ratcliffe Wilcox Who's who's coming into this interview process and you're speaking to a manager? You've done it you've interviewed managers. We'll sit and get a feeling for somebody go. He's the guy for us Almost forget the CV.

1:01:30You need something on your CV, of course, that you've won a trophy or you've been manager a long time. But you only look somebody in the eye, you're the man to get us places. I think if you think about the appointments over the last 10, 12 years now, and look, we've flipped back and forward, United, from sort of people that the club know, people that basically are sort of what will be fashionable in Europe and young, people who are a bit of, you know, Louis van Gaal and Jose Mourinho. But if you think about it, Jose Mourinho really is the only appointment that fits the criteria of the club. he's managed in the Premier League so there's an element of risk removed of the fact that he knows the league I think it's a criteria I think knowing the league I'm not saying it's perfect but if you said now what's the risks someone coming to a new league Ancelot came and won the league in the first season so that can happen and Jurgen Klopp came to Liverpool and did a great job but my point is if you want to remove the risks and try and remove as many risks as possible have they managed in the league before do they know the country do they know the game here Have they managed in Europe and done well in Champions Leagues?

1:02:27Have they been successful and won titles? Have they done the things that managed to unite? Can they handle big pressure and big atmospheres of big clubs? If you put those three or four, five, six things and say, right, they've got to fit that criteria, then you're looking at the likes of Ancelotti and Tuchel, aren't you? Look at the types of... They've been in England, they've won leagues, they've won Champions Leagues, they've been around the block, they've managed big players, they've managed personalities. They're not going to get a little bit scared if a pundit says something. If a pundit opens his mouth, they don't worry about a pundit, are they?

1:02:58So my point is, if you think about those five or six things there that are the criteria of managing a huge football club, it only points towards two or three people left that you can actually go for. And that's where Manchester United, I feel, should go, remove the risks. And what happens when somebody walks in your dressing room, we had managers at United, our new coaches come in, obviously with Kidd or Steve McLaren, and I'd walk with different managers. What you want, the top players sit, and somebody walks in your dressing room, who's doing a team talk or doing sessions, the top players looking at the coach and the manager they go, what have you got for us?

1:03:26That's what the top lads do. What have you got for us? And if they haven't got the answers the players are going to eat you alive. Do you know something Roy that you say that? I mean I speak to players at League 2 level they want to know what the club's training facilities are, what the plans are, what the ambitions are, what the coaching system. The players really do want to know what the club is going to do for them and what the coach is going to do. Roy is absolutely right then. It would even get more demanding at what would be a Premier League level. Who are you going to sign? They're going to be looking at that and they want to be inspired.

1:03:56I get the fact that playing for United, there should be a level of self-motivation and sort of accountability and responsibility that they take, but they still need someone to inspire them that gives them that enthusiasm and that environment to succeed in. But also, if some players are asking managers, I had a Sunderland, also if players come in and go, who else will we sign? And go, don't worry about that. That's not your business. Do you want to come to the club? Or do you want to roll your sleeves up and do a job for us? You're right. Everyone's going, don't worry about it. The top clubs will have all the best stuff.

1:04:25Do you want to come here and roll your sleeves up and get United back competing at the top? If the answer's yeah, let's go for it. I had a bad player asking me at Sunderland, who else are you signing? I should have kicked him out the window. Who else are you signing? Don't worry about who else are signing.

1:04:40Who else are you signing? Anyway. Missing Gerald Cronzer. Anyway, it is time to go. We'll do this all again for the Manchester derby because we're going to be reunited for some more terse exchanges. I'm not there at all. There you are. My community service continues. We have kept you long enough tonight. So before then, let's remind you what you have to look forward to. There's still some great games coming your way, even though the Premier League is going to take a little pause because we've got Carabao Cup semi-finals for you. Newcastle-Manchester City is Tuesday. Eddie Howe in charge of that one for Newcastle.

1:05:23And on Wednesday night, we've got Chelsea and Liam Rossini up against Arsenal. It is thanks to Roy and to Daniel and to Gary for joining us as well with such enthusiasm after a wet and wild and windy night here at the Emirates, which finished goalless but gave us lots to talk about and ended the night with Arsenal six points clear at the top.

1:05:57Thanks for listening to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast. Don't forget to hit follow so you don't miss an episode.