Arsenal restore five-point lead at top after vital win over 10-man Chelsea

23:23Thank you so much for coming to see us. Thank you very much. Pleasure to see you. Giant in the game. Yaya Toure popping in to our studio here on Super Sunday. this afternoon and when we come back we will get some different perspectives from those downstairs who've been involved in the action for the managers have been close to it today the frustrations of Chelsea the joy and relief of Arsenal are finally getting over the line and they've got nine games to go

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24:27This is the Sky Sports Premier League podcast. Let's get more analysis of the game and return to the studio. 2-1 in finish to Arsenal here at the Everett's. And it was a tale of three corners. Arsenal scoring with their very first. It's Jurian Timber there deflecting. No, Saliba it was, sorry, with that one, which was pushed goalwards by actually a Chelsea player. Then Chelsea equalising, which James Zilabri key to that, and Capier, that goes down as an own goal. Then it was Rice with the in-swing it, and that was Timber getting on the end of that one to make it 2-1 to Arsenal.

25:1116 corners they have scored goals from this season. Arsenal, let's have a look at the first. I mean, it was almost like there was a phony game going on in the first 20 minutes before we got to the real game, which was the set piece and Arsenal scoring from their very first.

25:25Daniel Sturridge:Yeah, it was, I mean... We're talking about guys working tirelessly on the training field. aggression, anticipation in the box and when you're looking at the marking here of Rhys James of course you know we have to highlight the fact that his back's turned he's got one job which is literally to block Gabriel but it is difficult when someone has momentum running towards you Gabriel in particular seems to be just impossible to stop whoever you are. It seems that way but again there's got to be things you have to have preparation in order to stop what Arsenal are doing. This is clearly what they're going to do every single game.

26:07Daniel Sturridge:Gabriel is the main man who they're targeting in the box there. You've got to have a player who can deliver the ball, but his aggression is for me what stands out most. Patrick, what do you think? Yeah, I think this is one of Arsenal's strengths. They're quite really good on that and I think they spend quite a lot of time on the field to practice. But it's quite really interesting because they opened the space to create for Gabriel. And of course, like you mentioned the momentum running at Riz is quite really difficult for him to defend that situation but after that I think when he managed to go over Riz you can see the determination and the competitiveness of the player so he and the 1d1 he's coming running at Riz he makes the difference and from now he's more determined to win the ball and then you can see so many players of Arsenal inside the six-yard box.

27:01And of course, Saliba reacted quite really well. And then he was really difficult for the goalkeeper to defend. But Arsenal are quite really strong in these situations. But it's not just Arsenal that were effective with it today. And it did feel a bit like Chelsea had done a lot of work on this as well in the build-up to this game, didn't it? Yeah, I think both teams didn't really create so many chances. And they both rely on set pieces. and here you can see it's in a small motion you can see Rijs fighting with the Chelsea player but he doesn't look at the ball at all and of course so many players in front of the goalkeepers with the deflection from their own Arsenal players they concede their own goal but there is nothing in this situation that the keepers can do because there are so many bodies in front of him This is becoming a real trend.

27:55We've seen it on every goal scored today, probably the ones that didn't go in as well, with defenders trying to stop their runners, trying to do anything to block, to maul, to hold, to drag, whatever you can do to be effective. But actually, a lot of the time, not watching the ball. Is this the way that defending is going now?

28:11Daniel Sturridge:But that is a problem for me, because the ball's coming in the box. You have a job, which is to play the ball. It's not to play the man, right? And that, for me, it's always been about that. If you're saying, my job is literally to mark this player and not care about where the ball is, I think that's a foul. I'm not... In another place on the pitch, that's a foul. You can't have your back turned to the ball and it not be deemed... You're not even playing the ball. You could argue that if Rice is facing the other way, maybe he could defend lacrosse. But I think we see a lot of this now where it's...

28:47Daniel Sturridge:Because there's a lot of crowding going on and a lot of grabbing and physical... elements to it, it's less necessarily about playing the ball and more about there's just bodies everywhere and it's complete chaos and how do you deal with the chaos? I think Arsenal are very good at creating chaos and executing off the back of it but clearly defensively here they got it wrong. As they did as well for the winning goal and yet again a theme for that was at the back post, Santos and Caicedo actually facing the wrong way entirely trying to defend this. I think this is a big issue and I think we need to find the right answer for helping the referees to make a decision here.

29:22When you don't look at the ball and you just stop the players running, I think that has to be a foul and I think referees have to be brave enough to give a foul and to give a penalty because when you don't look at the ball, it becomes really difficult. And yet again we're seeing 12-13 players justling for the ball, justling for a position, trying to either get some contact on the goalkeeper or not in that instance. I mean, he's looking at Santos here,

29:53Daniel Sturridge:you see, you know, he's trying to get his head around, but the goalkeeper was complaining earlier on about being bumped and he got bumped by his own teammate. Again, it's just complete chaos in the box. But do you agree with Patrick's point that maybe there needs to be a tweak of the rules or the laws? I'm not sure that everyone is enjoying watching this kind of scrum on set pieces. I think at this point, it's becoming a little bit... I liken it to almost like the tush-push in NFL, right? In NFL, there's a play called the tush-push that the Philadelphia Eagles were great at and they're the best at doing it.

30:21Daniel Sturridge:Complete different sport, I know. But their job is to say, okay, stop us. Help us. We're going to keep doing this until we're stopped. They ended up, I think, tweaking the rules slightly. But in the end, it becomes like, Arsenal are great at doing this. This is what we're known for. Stop us. Like, at the end of the day, we can talk about the rules, but Arsenal are making it more, like, I suppose, amplified because they're so good at executing. So it's going to continue until there potentially is a tweak because, you know, if I'm good at doing something and you can't stop me doing it, I'm going to keep doing it.

30:57And we should absolutely make the point that it's not just Arsenal. It was Chelsea as well today. It was Everton against Manchester United last Monday. There's been 138 corners already scored this season. That is already more than the last season's tally. And we've got 99 games to go. So it is very much a growing trend in our league. Now, 2-1, there were still chances for Chelsea to get back into this game. Do you give them credit, Patrick, for how they approach these final moments? Yeah, I give them a credit because I think scoring the goal just before halftime gives them that kind of momentum.

31:30I think in the second half, they entered the field in a better situation. I think they were the better team in the beginning of the second half. They created those kind of situations, but Raya was really good. there's the deflection in the near course and the reaction here to stop the ball was really good from him.

31:51Daniel Sturridge:I think if he could turn back times, Ra-Pedro would want to have that one back. I think he knows that was a great chance for him. For how well he's been playing, I think the chance played before was easier than this one. He's centimetres, well I suppose a few inches from that one isn't he Colpalma. But then this was the one where Garnaccio, Gary said the point in commentary. If there's a bit more zip on this, maybe it does find the bottom corner. We've seen those floating, but again, the step from Rea, you see the right leg step. He's got that strength in his leg to be able to catapult himself across.

32:23Daniel Sturridge:We've seen those going many times in the past, but it's a fantastic save. And then this, we're all looking to see whether the official had his flag up, and indeed he did to deny. He didn't at first, did he? He did there after the ball was in the back of the net, which was a very worrying moment for Arsenal fans. But that was correctly ruled out and 2-1 it finished to Arsenal. Let's bring in Gary Neville, who, of course, was watching on high for us. Gary, what's your overriding feeling having watched Arsenal get through this today, but not in a straightforward manner against Chelsea?

32:56Gary Neville:I mean, I think from where they were, Dave, a week last Wednesday after the Wolves game, I think too, I know Mikel Arteta before the game said that it doesn't matter when the other team that you're challenging for the title plays first, but it really does. I mean, City having to sort of get their points on the board on a Saturday and then Arsenal have to follow them on a Sunday does add that pressure for Arsenal. And I think it's been a really good week for them in two games that are quite difficult. The North London derby, obviously Tottenham aren't playing well, but they still have to go there and do a job under pressure after the Wolves game.

33:25Gary Neville:And then today was a real struggle for them, not playing well in terms of open play and the fluidity, but getting over the line. And I think that's really important. With all the competitions that Arsenal are in, you're not going to play well every single week, but they had to win three points. They had to get over the line and win the game and they've done that and I think that counts for a lot. Gary, the bigger picture, of course, is Arsenal winning their first Premier League title for 22 years. If they are to get there, what is it that they will be leaning on in these last nine games, do you think?

33:54Gary Neville:Their quality, their physical strength, the experience of the last three years of losing it. I mean, they surely have to sort of look upon what's happened in the last three years. They know this is going to be hard work. They've got 10 more weeks of pain, these Arsenal fans, watching in the crowd, watching at home sometimes when they're away from home. This is not easy. This is not going to be pleasant at times. It's going to be anxious, but they've got to enjoy the thrill of it. That's why they're here. We always, every single game, every single time we come to Arsenal, and we've done this for a number of years, and Patrick obviously played in the last title-winning team, we go over to that 2004 year that's over there, halfway up across that stand, and say they haven't won the league for 22 years.

34:34Gary Neville:and they've got to try and get rid of that. And in the last three years, they've been up against, obviously, City and Liverpool and it's been obviously tough for them and they've lost out in those battles. And call upon the experiences that they've had, dig deep, just dig in like you wouldn't believe. And they're doing that. Look, they're a resilient bunch. They've got a lot of fight about them. They're good physically. I think they're a mentally strong team. I don't think they're weak. I think that a few years ago they were quite vulnerable. They were a bit immature. That's not this group that we're watching out here.

35:04Gary Neville:I think the complication for them, Dave, is they've got four trophies to try and go at. And you can't throw away a Champions League, you can't throw away a Carabao Cup final. You've got to go for every single trophy. So how Mikel Arteta rotates, how he uses his squad, how he stays clear of injury is going to be important. Could you have a view on that in terms of what should be their priorities, if indeed it does come to that? I think they've got to, in some ways, take a massive risk or a calculated risk, if you like, in the FA Cup. That's not to disrespect the FA Cup, but I think you've got to look at that competition and say, right, I've got to trust my second 11 all the way up to the semi-final.

35:39Gary Neville:I think the Carabao Cup final, it's a one-off game. You've got to play your best team. The Champions League, you've got to go and play your best team. And obviously the Premier League, you've got to go and play your best team. But the FA Cups, you know, they do give a little bit of respite for Mikel Arteta to take a risk. And that might be the competition that they do sort of falter in maybe slightly. Obviously, they've got Mansfield, so they'll probably get across the line in that one. But as it goes through, that'll be the one that I think might fall by the wayside. Gary, you've been there, you've been in this position, you'll remember it very well.

36:09Of course, you went on to win multiple titles, but this first one, is it different? Is this going to be a case this evening of in this dressing room, they're going to be concerned about a performance or is it going to be just huge relief or delight that they've got these three points?

36:25Gary Neville:No, I think they'll have delight. I don't think they'll be sat there. I mean, look, you always want performance, but it's impossible. I know they've had a week's rest, but Arsenal play nearly every three days and have done for such a long time now. It is impossible to play every three or four days and play at a high level from a performance perspective. It just is impossible. So getting over the line and getting games under your belt and wins under your belt when you're actually doing that is something that's quite important. They've got that in them to be able to do it. And look, I have to say that the first title that I won was in 95, 96.

37:00Gary Neville:And it was a challenging experience. Your legs start to get heavy towards the end. You start to read every headline. You can't escape it. The noise is constant. I'm very lucky and we were very lucky as young lads. We had very experienced players who'd won two or three titles. The one worry, other than injuries and the sort of amount of games that they play, is that they're up against Pep Guardiola's machine who have won titles. and they haven't got any experience in the dressing room. And Gabriel Jesus has won it, but he doesn't look like the type that's going to be able to get the other players over the line on his own.

37:31Gary Neville:So the one thing that you would say is that who is the person in that dressing room that's settling everybody down, that's composing them? We had a lot of experienced winners when we were winning it for the first time and it is hard work, but I do think they'll get there. The experience of the last three or four years, I think will just be enough for them. Gary, thank you very much. That's an interesting point. We'll perhaps expand on that to here, but we'll let you go for now. Gary, thank you very much for your time this afternoon as well. Arsenal beating Chelsea by two goals to one. And you saw the reaction again from Mikel Arteta at full time.

38:03A little blow of the cheeks. He knew that Liam Rossini as Chelsea had pushed them, even with 10 men, late in that second half. But, crucially, Arsenal, five points clear, nine games to go. And he's reflecting with Patrick Davison. Macau, a bit of a nerdy finale, but a big win. How did you do it? A big win. I'm very happy. For big periods, I think the team performed in an excellent way. I think the margin should have been bigger at half-time, the way we conceded the goal. The moment especially that we conceded, it was painful, but as well as the quality of Chelsea, the players and what they can deliver.

38:43After scoring the 2-1, we had another big chance with Epps. and then the red card and after that we should have managed that situation better and we can talk about that tomorrow. Just from your grin actually at the start of the interview did you find that last I don't know five, six maybe even longer minutes uncomfortable on a touchline? They are uncomfortable because they have so much quality and even when they use the keeper they can get out of this situation with the man we didn't adjust things well and sometimes that happens you take things for granted we didn't play like we play the other action space and we have the opportunity to do so something to improve there.

39:21What problems did they give you today? Because I remember you speaking before the match about what a tactically flexible side they are. Yeah and the people that can, players that can occupy various spaces. Colwyn starts to play as a false nine and occupy these spaces. He just needs one square meter to turn and activate players in his back and they have quality. A lot of feet everywhere, big personalities as well, they are really well coached. Was it pretty difficult today to really lock them in? Sometimes you really seem to manage that, keep a team in their final third for 20-30 minutes and that was difficult today.

39:56You have them there, you think now I'm gonna win it and they get out of it and they are so good at turning tight spaces, Cancelo, Enzo, Cole. They have a lot of players, Joao, against our big centre-backs, where he and hold it and twist the game and cause you problems. It's impressive. They are a top side. Obviously, set-piece is a massive factor. That's your 16th goal from a corner, the ninth time you've gone ahead in the game, the corner, the first goal. Just how big a factor are they becoming in modern football? Very important. I mean, Chelsea are the second best as well with, I think, one less goal.

40:30I mean, look at the talent that they have. So you see it everywhere. We lost points from long throws. Lately, we haven't scored that many from set-piece. it was almost from open play but today it was necessary we've done it and to have these kind of options it's great. How hard do you work on them to be as effective as you are? I think like anybody else attacking and defending and defending you know exactly what they're going to do but they do it that well that is an absolute nightmare to defend against it so yeah that's it. I was just going to say those Rhys James corners from that side swung in.

41:03Will you say to players we could have done this we could have done that or is it? Yeah, on paper and the tactic boards we can resolve any situation. When it's live and they are so aggressive and pushy and effective and the deliveries are so difficult to handle, very tough. How much nerve, how much mental strength do you think the team have shown in the last couple of weeks? A lot. Playing second after the disappointment of Wolves as well? Well, the way we have reacted after that disappointing result has been top. And not only on the pitch, but the thing that we have learned about ourselves and I think the manner that we have dealt with that is top, so let's keep going.

41:42Can you say what you've learned about your team? I thought they were good and they were good human beings and I thought they wanted to win, but the level they are in now, it's another one, I think. Lastly, does the league enter a different phase now? Does it feel like the running is underway? You're into single figures for games left. Yeah, I think we had that feeling for a long time. I think the feeling that you have to continue to win and win and win and you win so many games and it is not enough to open the gap and this is the beauty and the level of this league. Thanks, Mikael. Thank you. Good luck.

42:13Cheers, mate. I think they've probably had that feeling since about September, Arsenal. It feels that long that since they've been top of the league they opened up a big gap and you thought they might run away with it at one stage but then Manchester City fought back. Aston Villa were there as well but now it's City that are on their heels and of course their recent run of form, four wins out of four, means the pressure was on Arsenal yet again today. But they responded. Patrick, is that actually quite a big element of this? Because, you know, Gary made the point, you've been there as well, winning many titles.

42:41It's a question of sometimes going second is not the easiest when you see your opponents have got the result on the board. You can feel their breath on the back of your neck. Yeah, but I think Michael mentioned it quite really well. This is the quality of the Premier League. But they built that experience in the last four years. So they finished second, second, and now they are in the top. and they have to manage to get there at the end. And I think they gained so much experience in the last couple of years and they are really close to get there, to win it. I believe that Arsenal are more stronger than they were last year.

43:17Because when you're looking at the team and you're looking at the quality of the players, on the right-hand side, Saka or Maduike. On the left-hand side, they have Martinelli or Troussard. Up front, they have Jesus, they have Arves coming back from injuries, Eze is here. So they have the squad to go until the end and to win the title. And I think now it's just about believe and keep going and taking game after game and try to not change who you are and not changing your identity. Go and play as the best as you can, like they did it a couple of months ago. So in the beginning of the season, I was watching Arsenal and from the first game of the season, I said Arsenal will win the title because of the way that they were playing.

44:07And it's true that it's really difficult to play with such a quality from the first to the end of the season. But this team has quality. I thought that was a really interesting line, though, that Mikel Arteta used there. And I want to sort of revisit that because it was, we feel like we've been in a run-in for a long time, was what he said. Does that change the mentality? If you think back, you said they were better than last season. If you go back two seasons, they were scoring goals for fun. They scored 91 goals in the season. They finished with 89 points this season and only beaten by City, who got 91.

44:46And it could be those two pushing each other again all the way. But does it change the mentality in terms of trying to protect what you've got when you are out in front rather than chasing something like it seems that Manchester City are right now?

44:59Daniel Sturridge:I think that where Arsenal are psychologically is, I'm not in the dressing room, obviously, but I feel as if because of the experiences they've had, they almost have the ingredients now psychologically. It's just about going and doing it. I feel like they're in a much stronger position psychologically than they've ever been. They've had so many different experiences in the last two seasons where they've been close, you're battling away, and you're almost thinking to yourself, what is that one thing that we are missing? Does that become a bruise, Daniel, or baggage even, when they've been that close and missed out before?

45:38Daniel Sturridge:Well, it can, but I don't think so. I think that it's down to the match winners to step up, you know, to make the difference. You know, it seems like it's only nine games and it sounds like it, but I think the pressure of it and the exhaustion of it all and psychologically you become tired because you're thinking, you know, we've got to do this, we've got to execute. They have it in their hands. It's their job to continue this momentum, but it's not easy when you are battling on multiple different fronts. I think the experience of winning the league and I know that was something that you'd ask Gary in terms of the feeling of winning your first Premier League title and whether that changes your approach or your experience and that's why I asked you earlier on about 2004 when I mentioned that it's because I think that the first year when you won the league with Arsenal I think they're in a different position to the second time in the sense of you'd felt it you'd felt the feeling of winning but you were also very close multiple times.

46:42Daniel Sturridge:I feel like the similarity with this team is they've gone close multiple times and basically should have won, but they haven't done it. So in their minds and in their spirits, they should already be winners. They've not lifted the trophy, but their spirit should be, we're winners. And that's the thing I think they need to carry into it. Forget the baggage and the pressure of, it's our first. It's more like, do I feel like a winner on the inside? Could this be almost like, if they do get over the line, And, you know, yes, they are fighting for four trophies. But in terms of the Premier League, could it be the moment like the cork coming out of the bottle for Arsenal?

47:15And then they go and do it again and again. And of course, I think the more you win, the more you build the confidence and belief. And I think Arsenal in the last couple of years, they built a team because Mikel has been there for like five years now. And he's really built this team. Top players come in and they are more stronger. And of course, I think if they manage to win it at the end, that will be the momentum and the belief that players need to go there and win it like two or three times in a row. In our time, it was really difficult to win two titles in a row. We won it once, we didn't, we won it the next year because we were competing against United.

47:55And I think in the last couple of years, it was really difficult for Arsenal because there was a Liverpool, there was a Chelsea and a Manchester City. So there was more competition maybe than a couple of years ago. But if they win it this year, that can be Arsenal winning the title for the next couple of years.

48:13Daniel Sturridge:So then when you say that, right, the psychological impact of, say, you competing with Manchester United for all those years and you knew this is our competitor, there was a lot of energy between the pair of you, right? We knew that it was us or them. Yes. And psychologically then, when you're approaching the season and you're in the running and you know it's us versus Man United to go to win the title, if you're second or if you were first in those moments what is that psychologically like what was that like for you it's always better to be first you know because you control the momentum and you know that what you need to do is just to win games to get there so it's always I believe to be the one to be chased than the one who chased the first one but it almost feels like Patrick there's more freedom in chasing no there's no freedom I think it's as a as a competitor as a winner from the first game of the season to the last one you want to be at the top so I think that Manchester City will want to be in Arsenal position well they both play on Wednesday night and it could be the most extraordinary season in Arsenal's history couldn't it if it ends with with four titles does there does there come a point Patrick when you do think about maybe sacrificing something in your pursuit of the Premier League.

49:30Is the Premier League the most important thing? Or is it the Champions League? The Premier League is important, I believe, for Arsenal. But at this level, when you are a competitor, you can choose which game you're going to go for. And I think I was talking earlier on about the squad of Arsenal Football Club. And I think you have enough numbers of quality players to compete in every competition. And of course, it will be important some key players like Odegaard to come back from injuries to help the team. But I don't see Mikael to choose a team A and a team B. They will go for it. Do you think, Daniel, the Champions League draw could have an impact for both these teams?

50:15Because for Arsenal, it's by Leverkusen, then it's a Bodo Glimter, a Sporting. And for Manchester City, it's a Real Madrid, maybe a Bayern Munich.

50:26Daniel Sturridge:Yes and no, but look, top football clubs, you have big games, top players, world-class players that have to step up and perform. And we know that there's a lot of football matches and, you know, we talk about schedules and resting and this, that and the third. But I think for both teams, they want to be successful in every competition, every manager. The intensity from the managers is about winning everything. You know, that's the ideal scenario. I think for Arsenal, I would say the Champions League or the Premier League is a huge victory. This season, probably more than any for the Champions League, is a season that it seems as if they have an amazing opportunity based on the draw.

51:02Daniel Sturridge:They've still got to go and execute. I think the Premier League and why it feels like that's probably more is, yes, the amount of time. We can talk about the Champions League. They've not done that, I think, in the history. but then you look at because they've been in control for so long it almost feels like nah you have to go and win the Premier League so if they didn't win the Premier League I think it would feel worse than if they didn't win the Champions League You don't want to disrespect any team in the Champions League but you have to say that Arsenal are in the good side of the draw Very good and they are five points clear in the Premier League as well they're in a great position to go all the way in both competitions it could be absolutely extraordinary and this time of the season is so fantastic because every single game is absolutely huge.

51:45They just matter so much, don't they, in every competition. It's do or die time for the Gunners and for Chelsea. We will be reflecting on next as well because, well, Liam Rossini has had 13 games in charge. He's lost three of them and all three have been against Arsenal. Two of them here in the last month. We'll get his verdict next.

52:11Gary Neville:Hi, I'm Tamsin Greenway. And I'm Tracey Neville. And we've teamed up this season for Sky Netball's Off the Court podcast. Join us every week as we shoot through the hottest topics in netball. We'll bring you everything you need to know from the Super League to the Super Shop, all building towards the Commonwealth Games. Make sure you give Off the Court a follow where you listen to your podcasts. Or you can even find us on YouTube. That's Off the Court, a Sky Sports podcast.

52:46A first Premier League defeat for Chelsea under Liam Rossini and it has come at the hands of title-chasing Arsenal. Let's get Rossini's verdict now with Patrick Davison. Well, of course, Liam, in the end, it all comes down to the result. But if you look at the performance, was there a lot to like from Chelsea today? It's been the same story for the last three games. performance, you have performances to get results and it's the same story. It's the same story in the ascendancy in all three games. And we just, honestly, we're together because what I never do when we win or lose a game is start pointing the finger at players, but it is clear what we need to improve.

53:30It's not our football, it's not our attacking play. Our goalkeeper makes some incredible saves today. We need to make sure we are ruthless in both boxes and to concede two goals from corners and to get another red card. That has been the story of our season and it's been the story of the last few games. So the defending from set pieces, sometimes the delivery is so good it looks so hard to stop. What more could you have done? The first goals are very top. Give Arsenal, they're fantastic, probably the best team in the world at set plays. You don't think we have not worked on set plays all week or spoke about them And you'd be crazy not to.

54:04The second one is the one that's disappointing. We just have to deal with that moment better. We have to be stronger. We have to have a better mentality. We give a free kick away before that. And then we give a corner away when we're in control of the game from a sloppy moment. But you can see, I don't want to keep coming out here saying all of the good that we do. Because there is a lot of good that we do. We're here to win games of football. And we need to solve that before we go to Aston Villa. And I know it's really difficult for managers to stand here. And you're not going to want to single out individuals.

54:32but when you're talking about we need to deal with that second corner better, do you mean the goalkeeper? I think it's a culmination. The marking, the zone players, the positioning, the goalkeepers involved. I'm not singling out. I don't single out players. And what I do do is address it in a closing room. I address it in the training ground. And I think it's clear to everybody who watches us play where we need to improve on top of what is a lot of good things in the game. When a team repeatedly makes the same mistake, and obviously, of course, like you said, you're working on it. Rhys James has just been in.

55:10The players have talked about all the red cards. What's happening there? It's a mental thing, I guess? Yeah, I think it's a very difficult thing to put your finger on. We get paid to try to win games of football. If you think we haven't tried to address that, it's crazy. We're trying to address it. and I think sometimes you have to learn from consequence, the pain. I felt the consequence of the pain of dropping two points against Burnley or Leeds when we're 2-0 up and would have switched us on today against a very good set play team and it hasn't and that's been the most frustrating thing about this afternoon because we come off the pitch with no points.

55:45I don't want to stand here and talk about all of the good things tactically, technically that we did in the game of which there was a lot because we haven't got any points from the game. Is that what you say to the players as well? I'm sick of telling you that you played well when you've not got any points. 100 % 100 % it's a really frustrating one today because I felt the set up tactically was very good I felt we got into the areas that we wanted to get into I felt Arsenal didn't cause any problems other than set plays today they're great at them and we didn't stand up in the moment we needed to and that's why we've come away with a defeat I know you said you didn't want to talk too much about the tattoo aspect the things you did well but can you just go into something for us Cole Palmer off the left and then drifting in seemed to create a lot of space for him.

56:27And throughout the match, they found it really hard to play through you. Tell us how you did that. I don't really want to. I don't want to give away what we do or why we do it. We just felt that we wanted to be compact in our shape. And Cole Palmer's a magnificent footballer. We want to give him freedom to go and express himself and create. But I don't want to talk about the good of our tactics or what we did today because I'm bitterly disappointed we haven't drawn a game, let alone won the game, which we could have done. Their corners were a big threat. Your corners were also a big threat. You scored from one.

56:55You had a couple of quite big penalty appeals from others. Especially that one from that side with Rhys James in swingers. Did you think you might have had a penalty? I haven't seen it back. I genuinely haven't seen it back. What I would say is there's been a lot of talk about holding, how you mark in the box. I haven't seen many referees give anything in those moments. I have to give their goalkeeper credit because he made probably two or three absolutely world-class saves. But in the end, it's just a bitterly disappointing day because we came here with a game plan. We felt we could execute it.

57:26And again, we haven't because we haven't had a good discipline about us and we've given away two goals from set plays. And lastly, how big is the job ahead? Because you've got other tough fixtures to come and you've got a bit of a gap now to the other Champions League teams. The great thing is we're playing them. If we solve the problem, if our level of performance, Burnley may be a little bit disappointing. Leeds today, if the performance level was there and we solved this problem, we have a great chance. It's very, very simple, but we have to solve the problem yesterday to make sure that that happens.

57:57Thank you. Thank you.

58:00Daniel Sturridge:Emotionally in Rossini. Daniel, what do you think? He's honest. I liked it. I respect it. The one thing I liked what he said was learn from consequence. And we're talking about a team who in the last game conceded a goal from a set piece. So I think that's what he's disappointed with more so than anything. We've worked tirelessly, we've talked about it. He's clear that he's not digging any players out. Again, what I respect. And I think that's his annoyance, more than anything. He knows in open play his team's competitive. He knows in open play they've got the tools, they've got the qualities.

58:36Daniel Sturridge:And you can see he trusts his players. The one area which he's very annoyed about, it's clear in his interviews, is that you've got to improve on set pieces, guys. I can only say so much, but you've got to execute on the pitch. And then, lastly, the red card. It's just like, come on, bro. We'll come to those specific moments in a minute. But Patrick, this is an interesting one. And I'm sure you're sort of keeping a close eye on Liam Rossini as a young English manager trying to find his way at a very big club in Chelsea. And you bring a different context to most because he followed you at Strasbourg.

59:10Yeah, where he did a really good job. So you've kept a close eye on what he's doing. And what do you make of it so far? Yeah, I think he really built himself in Strasbourg where it wasn't easy job for him. But I think he managed to take the team to European competition by playing a really good football, really aggressive. Of course, Chelsea is not Strasbourg. The pressure, it's in a different level. I think looking at the games that Chelsea play today you can see that it is a well-organized team players on the field have a really clear idea about their responsibility they play quite a really good game of football against Arsenal I've seen him really emotional frustrated by the two goals that they concede but I think it's about how he will manage those kind of situations I've seen him a little bit I don't know if his nervousness or if his frustration is really upset about individual players like he mentioned that is something that he will have I think to control to manage, to protect himself a little bit more because I think overall Chelsea can be really disappointed about the games they play tactically they were quite well organised and of course they consider those two goals on the set pieces, but this is something that against the best team in the league and that's the kind of situation.

1:00:46This is something I think to deal with in a dressing room, I will say. It's about controlling the emotions. Patrick, if you say too much in those interviews, what could be the problem for you as a young manager? I think as a player you will want to deal in this kind of situation front to front and face to face with the manager, I will say it. I think in this interview, with the respect that I have for him, I've seen him a little bit through emotions on the situation. And the emotion is the frustration, playing that well, but not taking anything from the game. And it will be important to control or to manage this kind of situation.

1:01:30And I always say that for the young manager, is always controlling your emotions in a good and in a low situation. Is it a delicate balance for the players in that situation? You're clearly talking about set pieces, maybe some people not doing their jobs, not being switched on or whatever. Feeling like your manager is digging you out publicly?

1:01:50Daniel Sturridge:No, because everyone's watching the same games the manager's watching, so the fans and everybody who's watching will have their opinions too. It's clear, but in the end, Chelsea were positive. They had their moments, even on their own set pieces. We could be talking very differently about them. The most possession, Daniel, of any visiting team here since the start of last season. There you go. And I think they can come away feeling like, look, we had a good game. But in the end, it was those small margins, two set pieces. You go away feeling like it doesn't matter how well you play. as a player in a dressing room, you can play as good as you want.

1:02:28Daniel Sturridge:If you don't get the result, the disappointment, that's what it's going to come from. Maybe the possibility that there were a couple of penalties that might have gone their way on a different day. We see so many of these, don't we? In these crowded penalty boxes right now. But first of all, you've got this Declan Rice. Did you think this was a penalty, Patrick? Not at all. I think you can't start to give a penalty in this kind of situation. I think Chelsea were quite unlucky because Raya made an unbelievable save. But for me, this is not a penalty at all. All right, that's that one dealt with.

1:03:08There was another one. This is when Raya comes for it and does make contact with the ball. But that's not all, it seems, Daniel. If you were the striker in this situation, what would you be thinking?

1:03:20Daniel Sturridge:I've just been punched in the face. That's what I'd be thinking. But at the same time, he's had a connection with the ball first. The follow-through, it looks like. It's a suggestion that Saliba's actually dragging him into that position as well. Yeah. I think the discussion would be more Saliba on Gerard Pedro. I think the way he's putting his hands around and stopping him jumping. You may have a conversation in that penalty or not penalty, but the Raya situation here, I don't think that's a penalty at all. We're getting used to seeing this, though, are we? Reyes doesn't even look at the ball.

1:03:54He doesn't know where the ball is. He's just dropping the players. This is a situation really difficult for the referees to manage. Almost impossible. Pedro Neto was sent off, of course. There'll be huge frustrations in that Chelsea dressing room yet again because of the manner of it. The first one comes for dissent. I think he had a warning. Then he starts throwing his arms around. There you go. That was the yellow card. but then two minutes later, he finds himself in a situation, Daniel, where he probably needs to make this challenge. Well, maybe not.

1:04:32Daniel Sturridge:I'm trying to find a defence for it. No, as an attacker in these situations, you want to try and bide your time. It's not our strength. It's rarely attacking strength to be making sliding tackles. He could have potentially tried to get into a physical battle maybe earlier in the action. He let it progress a little bit too much. And, you know, it was a naive challenge for sure, but he meant well. He wanted to compete and try and do the right thing. But I think the descent one would probably be more disappointing than the tackle itself, because that's what led to the red card. Well, this is the sort of the tale of shame, I suppose.

1:05:05Nine red cards this season for Chelsea. The most for 10 seasons in all competitions by any club. Seven of those have come in the Premier League. and the minutes column is relevant because they've played in the Premier League a lot of time with just 10 players, which has had an impact on their chance of winning the game. So the six times that they've had a red card before the 86th minute, they have failed to win the match. Might this in the end be the difference between Chelsea playing Champions League football next season or not? I was hoping you were not going to ask me about red cards, you know.

1:05:50But of course, the signing off repeatedly like that, it is an issue for them because it's never easy to compete with one less player. And they will need to find a way to resolve that issues because of course, when you have 11 players on the field, you become more stronger and you need your best element on the field to perform. Seven Premier League red cards equals a record for Chelsea. I see you're coming. Seven is also the record for Arsenal, 98-99, when you missed the title by one point. At the end. And you were one of those. Manu Petit, we were talking to you before the game, two of those as well.

1:06:39And I remember there was a lot of conversation about it at the time. This might cost Arsenal. Do you think that was the main factor? it may be one of the factors of course when you have important players missing games due to suspension at the end does have an impact and when you lose a title or you're not qualifying for the Champions League when you're missing those key players that of course cost to plant do they have to address it there might have been two under Liam Rossini the first game that he was watching he saw a red card at Fulham but when he's been in control There have been two red cards, the one last week for Fafana and this one today.

1:07:18But does he need to grab this?

1:07:20Daniel Sturridge:Yeah, it's down to the manager to kind of talk to them about the temperament. But inevitably, it's down to the players to not make these mistakes. I think a lot now is it's more man on man than ever before. So there's a lot more actions and moments what these things are happening. But it is going to be disappointing and the players will be frustrated as well because they know that they should be doing better than this. and the last thing you want to be doing is playing with 10 men in this league. It's an unforgiving league with the intensity of it. You need every man. And I think it is more to something that you can really control, I would say, is this kind of silly yellow cards.

1:07:57And I think the first one where he was complaining to the referees, I think this is something that you can easily avoid. The second one, of course, you try to win the ball and the timing wasn't right. and then you get the second yellow card, meaning the red card. But the first one where you're complaining, I think that is something that players can work on themselves and try to control. And I think that's something that they can do by themselves as well.

1:08:33If you love sport, then the Sky Sports app is the place for you. There are free Premier League highlights, breaking news, a 24-7 transfer centre and expert analysis from top pundits. You don't need to be a Sky subscriber to use it either. Just head to your app store to download it. For now, let's get more analysis of today's game and head back to the studio.

1:09:02less than a month since knocking Chelsea out of the Carabao Cup at the semi-final stage they've beaten them again here with Eurion Timbers scoring their decisive goal to make it 2-1 and 2-1 to the home team was a bit of a theme on this busy Super Sunday

1:09:31It was a big step for us today and I was really happy with the way the boys kind of approached that and reacted to it and got there in the end. The last pass, the last finish was not that accurate and that's why we lost at the end.

1:09:48This is absolutely astonishing. Brighton straight away back in front. In the end, I think the team got what they deserved in the time of the week. Three days after three days after three days, he's not the energy to press, the energy to play, to do the movements. He's not easy.

1:10:10Very good performance from us. We all deserve the three points and we have to move on. Here there are problems, big problems, so we need to stay calm, believe and think positive in the future. That's the only way. There you go. You heard from the Spurs manager, Igor Tudor. He's had two games, he's lost them both, and he says there are big problems. I'm sure Spurs fans will be really encouraged hearing that. Four points between themselves and the relegation zone, as you were, because West Ham, of course, were beaten at Anfield. The question is, are they going to get the requisite points to put Forest and Spurs in more danger?

1:10:50Leeds also beaten. Not quite out of it just yet. They're at home to Sunderland midweek. Crystal Palace and Newcastle also beaten as well. Sunderland with a point. Brighton climbing. A bit of a late flurry for them. And still a prospect of European football, which could go all the way down to the top eight. And Fulham climbing today. Everton also into that position. Brentford with an amazing win at Burnley yesterday. And then the top six with Chelsea now six points outside the top four, but just three behind Liverpool. Aston Villa have lost their momentum. Another defeat for them this time at Wolves on Friday night.

1:11:26Manchester United winning again. And then the top two, City, with Arsenal five points. Clear City with that game in hand. So let's get Gary Neville's verdict on the race for Champions League football next season. And here he was speaking a few moments ago on his podcast.

1:11:42Gary Neville:The United have got difficult games, but they've got a free programme. They've got the momentum. They look dangerous. I actually think against the good teams, they're very dangerous on the counter-attack with Ahmad, Sesko, Embermo, Kunya, Bruno. So I actually think those games suit them. I think United will definitely finish third. But I'll probably sat here in three weeks on the Gary Neville podcast, which I said wasn't very good before. in the game. No, I think United will finish third. And I can't believe I'm saying that from where we were six weeks ago. But I just think they've got no distractions.

1:12:15Gary Neville:They've got something good going. The momentum's with them. All the teams have got difficult games. They've all got difficult games. They've all got a challenge in front of them. I think United finish third. I think Liverpool finish fourth.

1:12:32Gary Neville:And I think Chelsea will finish fifth. I think Chelsea will finish fifth I hope Villa finish in the top five I really do and look I've said before the manager is an experienced wise guy and if they get some players back but the midfield players being injured have cost them a bit in the last few weeks and I just feel like it will be Chelsea, Manchester United and Liverpool the only doubt will be Chelsea or Villa Chelsea or Villa for fifth is my view I think it's United Liverpool Chelsea or Villa Clear as mud Is that how you see the top four Daniel? Manchester United and Liverpool

1:13:14Daniel Sturridge:I do think so yeah it's going to go down to the wire though isn't it? Villa I love the coach I love the players what they've got going on over there of course Chelsea if they figure it out and they show their best they're capable of beating everybody but Liverpool and Manchester United I think are in a better position at the moment, maybe psychologically. I think Chelsea have had their concerns and Aston Villa in a little bit of a difficult patch, but I think it goes down to the wire. I don't think it's going to be one of those where we can be making statements now because these players and the top coaches as well, they always find a way.

1:13:50Six wins out of seven for Michael Carrick in charge, but Gary hasn't changed his position. You might remember when we were here. Watching Manchester United beat Arsenal, it was a case of wait. see what else is out there you still agree that the right approach? I think of course you don't want to rush making a decision but you have to give him a lot of credit because Gary was talking about calmness around United and I think the manager bring calmness and they bring result so he's doing a good job and I think that is something that we have to talk about because it's always difficult when you come into a new club where the teams are not doing well So that means you need to relieve the confidence of the players.

1:14:30You need to find a system that suits those players to perform. And I think he did it quite really well in a really short time of period. And really anything but calmness, Patrick, around Crystal Palace, your old club right now. Is it a bit of a shame, do you think, the way it's sort of finishing and tailing off a little for Oliver Glasner? Yeah, I think it is a shame. It is a shame because he did a fantastic job winning the FA Cup and giving a lot of hope to the fans. and really built a strong team, physically really strong and competing quite really well. I think Crystal Palace is a really difficult team to play against.

1:15:08And going from winning the FA Cup, seeing the celebration and seeing where they are now and a lot of confusion around the club, around the manager, around the players, it is a shame for the club because it is a wonderful football club. And as for Spurs, Daniel, in a bit of a pickle, no one in ten, two defeats under their new manager. Would you be worried about them right now?

1:15:34Daniel Sturridge:I think you have to be. You have to be worried, but they've got so many talented football players in the team and you sort of think they've got to have some moments within themselves. they have to figure out a way to bring their best because there's so much talent. It's just, you know, they're not playing to the level they can. They know that too. There's a lot of international guys, top, top players who have done things in different leagues and have had success here. And I just think that it's surprising to see where they are. It is surprising. I'm sure they're going to be disappointed with how things are going at the moment.

1:16:11Daniel Sturridge:And yes, managerial change and all those different types of things. but you've got to build this momentum, man. You've got to find a win. Why are you smirking, Patrick? You must have some words of encouragement for Smurfs fans. No, no, no. I think it is sad, of course, because we're talking about one of the greatest clubs in London and in the Premier League. But in the last couple of years, I think this is a club that spent a lot of money with no structure, with no direction, and with quality players. So that means if you don't have a proper structure, if you don't have a direction, you can have or spend much money that you want that doesn't bring you success.

1:16:52And last couple of years, I think, try to understand where they want to go. It is really difficult to explain. Patrick, it's been a pleasure and a delight again. Thank you for being with us. Daniel, thank you very much. Special mention as well to our special guest for popping in, Yaya Turi. That was a nice surprise, wasn't it? And for Arsenal, it's been a really good day in the office. Five points clear, 29 down, nine to go.

1:17:21Thanks for listening to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast. Don't forget to hit follow so you don't miss an episode.