Chelsea's boy from Brazil breaks Liverpool hearts

22:22But if he can go and get more goals, then really you're talking about one of the best in the world. He's already getting more goals. He's only managed one a season before this season. He's already at three and we're only in the beginning of October. That meant that Chelsea went in one up at the break. It was a different Liverpool who came out in the second half. They made a change, but also there was a change in intensity and in the way that they played and in the balance of the game. Yeah, the game changed. Wurtz came on and he was very excited in that first five or ten minutes, making little things happen.

22:51This touch, though, from Alexander Isaac, whether he meant it or not is besides the point. I think the timing and the anticipation of Cody Gakpo in the box there, very hungry to score the goal. Gusto could have done better a little bit? I think so. But the anticipation of the attacker is what I give credit for. And again, being in those types of positions, these are again the goals that you want to be scoring in that six-yard box, anticipating things, getting into the ball first, and it's an easy finish for him in the end. Yeah, Gusto got done in the back post last week against Brighton, and he has to do better there.

23:23He doesn't anticipate that Cody's coming in behind him and it's obviously an important goal. And then I could honestly say I could only see one winner there. I didn't see Chelsea. I thought they were going to maybe just peter out and the pressure and the adverts on the pitch and players that could do something. They lost another two centre-halves in the course of that game as well. And it never quite materialised. And that's a lot to do with Chelsea and the desire they showed. The crowd got behind them and they were in the ascendancy. And Cody Gagpo thought that he had set Liverpool on their way to at least a point, if not more, as Jamie was saying.

23:55He's talking to Patrick Davison. Well, Cody, I know it's really, really difficult to come out and speak after a defeat, and especially one like that, but your immediate thoughts on what's just happened?

24:10Difficult. I think, obviously, we play against a very good team. First half, I think they scored an amazing goal. but I think it was levelled. Second half we fought really hard to make the equaliser. I think we played a little bit better maybe than them in the second half but they were very dangerous in the counter-attack as well. And then to concede last minute again is hard to take. Is part of the disappointment that after you'd scored and it went 1-1, it felt like Liverpool's game and then somehow the momentum swung back their way? Yeah, I think somehow we couldn't keep the momentum. We have to analyse it to know how or why.

24:57But yeah, I think like you said, after the goal we had the momentum. I think if we kept pushing back at that time, maybe we could score the 2-1. But somehow we lost a little bit of the momentum. They gained strength again and they pushed us back in the counters. and like I said they were very dangerous and then scored the winning goal in the last minute. Do you think, is the truth actually Cody that this sort of brilliant champion team that you're part of it's just those little things that happens to every team, confidence, rhythm, form, all those things that are hard to put your finger on, hard to grasp, you've just lost them a little bit at the moment?

25:36What do you mean lost them? As in you're just a little bit out of form, you're a little bit low on confidence? I don't want to say low on confidence, but I understand what you mean. I think in this moment of time, the things don't fall our way. Where it was maybe five games ago, they did fall our way and then we go away with the win. But unfortunately, this is also part of football and we have to take it with our chest and keep on fighting because we know the quality we have with the players who were here last year as well and the new players we brought in. So we have to just keep pushing. Yeah, I mean you said keep pushing.

26:11What is the key? Because you know what it's like when it's a big club in a difficult moment. The noise is so loud. The scrutiny is so big. So how important is it to shut that out and sort of stay within the group, focus on what you know you need to do? That's the most important thing. I think obviously when you play at the club this big, it's normal when you lose two Premier League games in a row and also the Champions League game in between. that's not good enough. We know that as players, without even looking at the outside, so we are very much aware of the situation we are in and we know what to do.

26:48We have to go back to the winning race and that's why we will train and analyse and do our best again. Thank you for coming out. Thank you. We do appreciate it. Jamie and Daniel have got a lot to say about Liverpool today and throughout the course of the season, but we'll do that after we've heard from the Liverpool boss. Arna Slott is up next.

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28:01Welcome back to the Sky Sports Premier League Podcast. let's get back to the studio for more reaction to today's game

28:13Liverpool's defeat by Chelsea means that they've lost three games in a row under Arna Slott for the first time since he joined the club just over a year ago let's hear from the Liverpool boss with Pat Davison but Arna obviously desperately disappointing to lose and disappointed to lose in that manner in that moment in the game as well but what about the performance that went with it, the underlying performance your team gave? What did you make of that? I think there were two very good teams on the pitch today. First half, unfortunately for us, their first chance and the only chance they had in the first half, if you can look at that as a chance, it's a shot from 20 yards, goes into the top corner.

28:55We created three open chances, Miloš, Dom and Alex with the header. But I felt the game was equal, maybe in ball possession they were a bit stronger than us. Second half we started off really well. It wasn't a surprise to me that we scored the 1-1. I think in that period of time I felt as if we could go one up. In the last 10-15 minutes it was an end-to-end game, if you say, as you say over here. So it just goes both ways. We had chances to win it, they had chances to win it. And in the end again we concede in the last second goal. It's something you mentioned in your press conference on Friday actually, for so long, for so many months, you've been on the right side of the margins and suddenly you find yourselves on the wrong side of those margins.

29:43Is that confidence form? What are the little things that have suddenly turned these tight games against you? First of all, the opposition we face. Last season we lost against Chelsea as well. So going away here at Stamford Bridge is always a difficult team to play against. But we were, in my opinion, I think we were, I can safely say this, very close to a result. So yeah, small margins, as I said, Galatasaray, we go 1v1 to the goalkeeper, we miss, they get a penalty. Conceding in the last minute a set-piece in extra time of extra time of extra time against Crystal Palace. and today just in a normal extra time.

30:24They scored a goal where it could have gone either end. Can I ask you about some of the changes you made? You've obviously changed one fullback at half-time, another one around the 55th minute. Are those positions difficult for you at the moment, maybe in terms of the form of the individuals and maybe finding some chemistry as well? No, I don't know. Most of the times I've changed the fullbacks has mainly had to do with them being on yellow. So again, today Conor Bradley was on a yellow card. Made a second foul, if you can call that a foul. Players were asking for yellow again. So yeah, you wonder if that is smart to keep him on the pitch.

31:04So we decided not to. I think we could lose. We also needed maybe Florian to come into the game. And by doing that I could play Domas right fullback. Milos was more and more tired, he played 90 minutes, two games and now for the third game in a week, which he's not used to when he played at Bournemouth, you could feel and see and we could see this as well, that it got more and more difficult for him to keep going and their wingers are afraid, so we decided to make a change over there. Canate a fitness thing or was that about trying to get Gravenberg in the back four and have his ball playing ability further back?

31:45No, the moment we did it had only all to do with a fitness thing, so he felt his quad a little bit. Now then alarm bells go off with me. But if the game would have went on like this, I would have made that change as well, maybe a bit later, but I didn't want to take the risk because they pressed us mainly with the left winger, so the right centre-back is then very important in build-up. It wasn't a coincidence that when Ryan started to play there, we got more and more into the game and created more and more problems for Chelsea. Were you surprised after going 1-1 that it wasn't your team that went on?

32:26They lost a couple of players to injury as well. Did you think then at that point it was set up for Liverpool to go on and win it and why didn't that happen? Because we missed some chances. I think in that period of time after we scored the 1-1 We were the dominant team, at least that's how I saw it. And in the end of the game, last 10 to 15 minutes, I think it was an end-to-end game. Both teams could have scored. We were close, they were close. We arrived, both teams arrived a lot of times in the 18-yard box of the opponent. And I think just before they played it, I think it was Hugo Ikiteke who played it to Robertson who was very close to getting maybe the same cross in as they had in the end.

33:08and these are the margins that don't fall for us at the moment. And we just have to work harder, do better, to not rely on these margins and win our games in a different manner. But as I said, Chelsea away, Palace away, these are also teams that ask you a lot of questions, which they've done for us this week. You said before the match, if we win, it's a great start. If we lose, there'll be criticism, which would be the case with any big club, I guess when you lose three in a row. How challenging a moment is this? It's always challenging, especially because the players go to the national team. So you prefer to have them with you in moments like this.

33:49But yeah, I think you've said it, I said it. It's not one game that we've won easily and there's not one game that we've lost easily. So players fight really hard, do everything to get a result. in a league that is not the easiest one. And in a week where you have to play Palace away and Chelsea away, we were, again, very close to a result, which we should because we're Liverpool. But unfortunately, it didn't fail for us in the right manner twice. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Jamie Arnaslott talked about fine margins there, not just in this game, but in the game against Galatasaray, maybe against Crystal Palace as well.

34:30Before that, Liverpool had won seven games in a row in all competitions. Were there fine margins in those games as well? Is this the season evening out of it? Every single one, Kelly. And those last second goals, they end up running out. You know, you run out of luck in the end. And that's certainly what's happened to Liverpool. And then obviously they've been caught the other side with last minute goals. You know, Crystal Palace and then Chelsea. And it's become a really difficult theme that's going on with the team. And I feel when I look at Liverpool, when I watched Liverpool last year, the one thing I always felt, they were always in control.

35:05They had a lovely balance about them. They had a steady settle back four. And just in front of them, they had Ryan Gravenberch. And it was obviously, at times, he would play as a defensive midfield player. But because of his athleticism, he could get forward. And I heard an interview of him. I can't remember the game. It was a night game. And he was talking about how the manager now maybe wanted to have a slightly different role. And that's fine. But you can't then change too much and go away from what was so successful for you last year. Because when I look at that balance in midfield, and I always look at midfield, so I feel that's where games are won and lost.

35:37They're certainly losing control in important matches. I think about that first goal, the way they dissect Liverpool's midfield. Ryan Gravenberg should not be running out. I get at times you've got to go man for man. He goes and presses on Enzo Fernandes. But there are other times when you've just got to mark space. And they are too open all the time. Jamie Carragher mentioned about them being, it's like a basketball game. And I totally get that. And that's what he said today. It was end to end. That isn't what Liverpool were last year. And they have had problems in different situations. Obviously, the fullbacks, it's not quite working.

36:07You're playing, you know, if you would have said to me last year that Sobisla would be playing at right back, I'd go, well, why? He's been one of the best number eights in world football. Why are we doing that to him? But you're trying to get everybody into the team. You're almost trying to keep everyone happy. Then you get Gravenberts in the team. Then you get McAllister in the team. And everyone right now is just a bit off it. confidence is low I'm still I wouldn't write Liverpool off just yet but this is certainly a mini crisis because of the way that they're playing they haven't been at it all season but they will get better and they're still going to be in the equation Yeah I think international break couldn't have come quick enough I agree and as a player you know as we've been in those situations where a little bit of a dip in form and you're thinking to yourself we just need to go away get a breather the manager's going to analyse exactly how the team have been playing so far this season how we can rectify it tactically.

36:57He's got to change things. Clearly, from a selection perspective, there's got to be a rhythm there so that the players get that chemistry built up. Because it is hard, I think, when you are changing players when they're also trying to learn how to play with each other. That's not an easy thing to do. They are world-class players in the team, this, that and the third, but it's not easy. And last year for Arnazslot, it was one of the most incredible managerial performances. But to a certain extent, it all made sense to him because they didn't really buy any players in, only Kiesa come. This year, he's got, obviously, Kerkhez at left-back.

37:31He's got different players in midfield. You're trying to fit Florian Verts into that team, who's probably the most expensive signing. You're trying to make everything fit, and you're trying to do it quickly with what was a very difficult pre-season for Liverpool for a number of reasons, obviously really difficult reasons. So things haven't quite been able to gel as what they would have liked, and that's why I think this is still going to need time. Alexander Isak will need time. You're bringing Eketike as well. They are world-class players, but they just need that little bit of extra time maybe that we wouldn't have expected because I thought it would all just slot, forgive the pun, perfectly, but it hasn't.

38:07You talked about some of the changes that have been taking place right back in particular. Trent Alexander-Arnold, we know, is a really difficult player to replace. And it's not just about the... I think he started 10 of the first 12 games for Liverpool last season. So it's not just about replacing the player and what he brings. It's about replacing that consistency. And the injury early on in the season to Connor Bradley meant he wasn't able to go with the person that he was most familiar with in that position. So then Fringpong comes in. Then he can't use Fringpong. Then Soberslai comes in. How much do you think that's affected?

38:40I mean, he talked about changing players in games, which he said was largely down to them picking up yellow cards. But how much of that is down to the unfamiliarity of the position? Yeah, well, if you look at since Burnley, Kelly, he's gone Soberslai, Fringpong, Bradley. Frimpong, Bradley, Slobberslay, Bradley. And he's trying to find the right balance. Now, I really want to see Conor as that out-and-out right-back. He's obviously had injuries. It hasn't been easy for him. Frimpong played in a back three for Leverkusen. He wasn't an out-and-out right-back. And you can see the way Liverpool play.

39:09He struggled so far this season. It hasn't been easy for him. And then obviously then you go with Slobberslay, who's probably been arguably the best of them all. But I still don't think that is the answer. but I think what Liverpool probably would have looked at in the summer when you lose Trent, who's irreplaceable, who is out there? There's not many great right backs that are easy to buy. You know, you look at a lot of them end up as centre backs that play right back. You look at Hakimi, who would be the best of the bunch but he's obviously not going to leave where he is. There are not many right backs out there.

39:40It's a very difficult position to trade. I mean, also, we talk about Trent bringing a player who's not a Liverpool player now. But the reason why maybe Sobberslai is playing there is he gives you maybe a little bit more power in terms of the intensity which he's pressing with. He can bring the ball into the midfield and slot into those areas that maybe Trent was occupying last season. So I think that maybe have been why he's tried to do that. I think one player who... Whereas Trent Alexander-Arnold was a right-back who wanted to play in midfield. You've got Dominic Sobberslai as a midfielder now playing at a right-back.

40:14Yeah, but also, I mean, Luis Diaz is a massive miss for me. When we look at Liverpool last year and how Liverpool used to press, I think he was arguably the one who would set the press in the front three. Sobbers-Lion midfield was the person who was setting the press in the midfield with that power and that dynamism that he has. But for me, Luis Diaz, how tenacious he is on the ball, hungry to get the ball back for his team, interceptions. he brought something to Liverpool Football Club that they are now missing. I think Eketike and Isak, Verts, they do work. I'm not saying they don't work hard.

40:52Verts is, I think, third most kilometres in the whole team. So we can't question his work rate. We can't question Isak and Eketike's quality. But what I will say is that they're attack-minded players. I think with Luis Diaz, he would sacrifice himself a little bit more defensively. And that's the one thing that they have to figure out now is, in the attack who's going to give themselves up a little bit and say I'm maybe not searching for the numbers I'm maybe not trying to score the goals there's always in a front three there always has to be one guy who goes I'm not stats hungry per se and I'm you see Kodi Gakpo this year he's scoring more goals Mohamed Tal has scored less goals the strikers their new signings what do they want to do as a striker your job is to score goals that's what you're going to want to do you want to hit the ground running so I think in the front three Jamie goes on the midfield and the balance and the consistency in there but I also think in the front three it's important to understand which one of the three is going to be our workhorse which one of the three is going to be our guy that we're going to let do what he wants to do and then the other guy is going to be a hybrid of both and I think right now I'm not sure the manager quite knows what he's going to do with that front three.

41:57Are you a little bit worried about Mohamed Salah's form right now? I'm not worried because I think for me it is him trying to understand how he can play with natural strikers and get his chances. With Cody Gakpo, his resurgence, really, I think he's filled with so much confidence. He's scoring more goals. He's taking more shots. He's taking that responsibility on. And as an attacker, that is what you do season in, season out. You want to improve. He's working with his dad. He's doing all types of stuff to get to become a better player. With Mohamed Salah, I think it's not that he's dropped off.

42:29He has dropped off in terms of statistics and in terms of the level of performances we used to see from him. But what I will say is I do believe he's trying to figure out how do I play with these two strikers. He's worked with a false nine, effectively, in Luis Diaz, who wasn't an out-and-out striker. You know, God rest his soul, Diogo Jota was an amazing player, but he also wasn't an out-and-out striker. He played wide for Wolves at times as well. And then you look at now, he's working with actual centre forwards. Bobby Firmino, who... So what we're talking about there is when at times, let's say Firmino, if we use him as an example, he would be able to come short and then that would leave that space behind and that space isn't there for him.

43:11No, it's not there and also teams are playing deeper. That wasn't the case today. Chelsea went at them toe-to-toe. So that's not an excuse. I've seen Arnest Lott in interviews. You can look at it. The fans out there are watching now. You can go back and watch his press conference from before the game. He talked about how teams set up differently versus Liverpool this season at the back end of last season that's carried over to this year, which is that they're playing low blocks. So we talked about goals from set pieces. They've not scored a single goal from set pieces. So when you look at how Liverpool are scoring goals this year, it's completely different to last year.

43:42The last minute goals weren't in effect last year. A lot of the goals were coming from Mohamed Salah. He's not scored as many. The goals are coming from the left side. So when we talk about the overall outlook of the attack, I'm not quite sure how they're going to rectify it Because you have to make decisions, leave out one of those signings that they've spent a lot of money on. And that's not an easy decision for the manager to make. We can talk about last season's success and we can say, yeah, they were unbelievable last year. They've done this and that. It's not last year now, it's this year.

44:13So the manager's got a lot of, you know, opportunities in this international break over the next 10 days to really analyse the first amount of games that they've gone and gone, you know what? I'm going to have to leave someone out. I don't really want to leave out. but I've got to do it for the chemistry of the whole team. And I think that in attack, like I say, I go back to it, Mohamed Salah, you know what you're going to get from him, goals. But in turn, now you've got to find the balance with the other guys. Cody Gakpo stepping up this year. So we need to see how that rhythm is going to take effect and how they're going to get the best out of all of the players because that's the key, getting the best out of all of them.

44:50So it's a busy couple of weeks coming up for Arnazlat and his team. for Chelsea. They're going to the international break on the back of a late, late win against the Champions. We'll talk more about them next.

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45:47Well, and all the excitement of that late winner by Esteval for Chelsea, Enzo Mareska set off right down to the corner flag to celebrate with his players. He got a yellow card for his efforts. That was his second one of the game. And so there he is. That's Anthony Taylor's ref camp giving Enzo Mareska a red card. He was still giving instruction as he made his way down the tunnel to watch the end of the game. But that's how high the emotions were running for Chelsea and how hard fought that win was for them in the end. And it was particularly sweet because in the game, two more centre-backs were sent off for Chelsea in that centre-off.

46:25Sorry, were injured in that game. Badia Shiel and Achan Pong both injured. That means it's six centre-backs unavailable at the moment. One, of course, Shalabar was suspended for this game. Yeah, I think certainly Josh picked up a cramp because he hasn't played, obviously, a game of this enormity for a long time. And just remember from experience when you play, I think. So I'm sure he'll be fine for the next game. Badia Shiel, I'm less sure. Obviously, we'll have to see about that one. but obviously Levi Colwell is so important. He's long-term. How long Cole Palmer, the man obviously that is so important to this team, how long he's going to be out for.

47:01Liam De Lappe has got a hamstring. He's going to be out for an awful long time. And, you know, obviously Fofana, Santos, Chalaba. I think he's obviously, what did he get? Three games for that? I mean, yeah, would he be back for the Forest game? So, yeah, it's just difficult. You know, always difficult. But if you look at one of the things, obviously winning the Club World Cup was huge for this team. Huge for the club, huge for the players because it gives them a real belief that they are genuine competitors in world football. But it's come at a cost. I think if you look at PSG, I know they won in midweek against Barcelona, but they're decimated by injuries.

47:33And it's come at a cost because of all the games and players having a disrupted pre-season. They come in for like two weeks. So I think Chelsea will be a slow burner as well and will get better as the season goes on. And we're so quick to judge teams right now, but it doesn't matter after seven, eight games. It matters at the end of the season. And I think Chelsea are going to get stronger and stronger. So FIFPro, one of their requirements is to look after players' welfare and speak out about it. They say that teams should have 28 days free at the end of the season and then 28 days of pre-season to prepare for the next one.

48:05Chelsea, because of going to the Club World Cup, for which they got about£90 million, so there is a financial incentive for them to go and take part. But because of that, they had 20 days free before they went off and started back in pre-season. And then it was just 13 days of pre-season. Do you think that is a factor in, if not all, then some of those injuries? Absolutely. And as I say, sorry, Matt, it's no coincidence because PSG have got a similar problem. And players are, you know, they talk about Pedro is playing with an injury, the centre forward. Obviously, Caicedo, they reckon, is playing with a bit of a groin problem.

48:43It's a case of knees muscle and getting players on the pitch. I don't know what you think, Daniel. It has to be a factor. That's what you said. Just 28. What was it? 28? Supposed to be 28 and 28. Right. And Chelsea had 20 and 13. So 20 spare days. So 23 days. 20 days off from 13. Yeah. You're missing a big period of rest and also work. And I've been there. You know, you miss the preseason. You pick up a knock in preseason or whatever it may be. And then you're chasing your tail through the season to get up to speed and to get that rhythm. So it is unfortunate for Chelsea, but they, again, you know, it's like you balance the finances.

49:21But there will be a lack of sympathy because they chose to be there. That's the point. So you balance the finances versus the performances and the health of the players. And that's the unfortunate position we're in today in football is that, yeah, we want more games. We want more games. Yes, of course, and the players make more money. But in turn, your body is going to take a hit because of that. That's the price on the ticket, unfortunately. And when you think about, and I mentioned Levi Colwell there, who would be their number one centre-back. He comes back from the Club World Cup, has a fantastic Club World Cup, picks up an ACL injury.

49:55It's so difficult to deal with. So you can have all the planning in the world. You think about this is what we're going to do. This is how we're going to play next season. Straight away, that throws your plans into complete turmoil. So you have to deal with everything as it comes. And today, and that's why I was so impressed with them, because it wasn't anywhere near your best 11, but somehow they showed the character and the desire to get the right win. And I think that's testament to the whole club. Let's talk about Esteval, because you started by mentioning him right off the bat. He did get the winner, but it was more than that that impressed you.

50:27Yeah, go with this, Daniel. This is a bit of you, isn't it? I mean, yeah, this guy, I watched clips of him when he was in Brazil and was really impressed. He's got a huge reputation over there. He's the next one in line to light up the stage, you know, the world stage. I think coming in the game today, You could see the confidence he has in one-on-one situations, manipulating the ball. He's got tricks in his artillery, stepovers, you name it, he can do it. You see the nice little delicate pass through there. And he's got an eye for goal. That's what I really like about him. Puts in brilliant crosses, as you can see there.

50:59But I think overall, he's going to improve as well. His only has just come to England, getting used to the speed, the weather, everything about it. But this guy has everything that you need as an attacker. You see him working hard to even get back as well. And those are the types of things that get you more minutes at a young age, that the manager can trust you to track back. He can trust you to put yourself in positions at that back post, like I talked about. The world's best players are always in those positions, getting those tappings. I love this guy's game. He's had some months. He scored his first goal for Brazil's national team as well.

51:30And obviously to do that one in the Premier League, a winner against the champions, you can see the emotion on his face. And obviously everybody loves Brazilian football and they've had some of the great number 10s. and he's played number 10 a little bit. I'll be interested to see where his development takes him. Does he be that number 10? Obviously, they've got Cole Palmer in there or does he maybe end up playing on the right where he can cut in on his left? But you can see that he's got, as Daniel did it perfectly, got great attributes. But what I also like today, there was a few times when there was like, he had to go and win individual battles and he did it.

52:01And that's what this league will bring because you have to adjust really quickly. And he's only 18 years of age. It's been an incredible night for him. I can't, I'm not that happy about it, But for him, amazing. I'm really pleased for the boy.

52:19Thanks for listening to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast. Don't forget to hit follow so you don't miss an episode.