Drama! Gibbs-White scores late VAR pen for Forest to sink lowly West Ham

0:28This is the Sky Sports Premier League podcast. An agonizing zero points for the Irons and Nuno. It was Areola's error really ultimately fouling Morgan Gibbs-White that saw the Forest captain able to step up to convert the spot kick. After Somerville had thought he'd given them a 2-0 lead earlier in the half only to see Dominguez equalize for Forest and set them on their way for the turnarounds. The own goal from Murillo in the first half seems a long time ago. And for West Ham United it seems a long, long way away as far as safety is concerned. Nottingham Forest have increased the gap from the bottom three to the bottom three.

1:20And maybe they can try and push on from here. But for West Ham United, a sorry state of affairs when it comes to where they are in the Premier League table. A significant night, it feels, and the final score of the London Stadium, West Ham United 1, Nottingham Forest 2. Well, it was a crucial win for Nottingham Forest in the end. And, Michael, that means they open the gap seven points clear now of the relegation zone. How big is that? Oh, it was a huge second half performance. I mean, they rode the luck, very fortunate with a couple of decisions that went their way. Fine moments in that second half that could have determined a completely different outcome.

2:04But you could see the relief from Sean Dykes, celebration from those Nottingham Forest players and seven points clear as West Ham, as you've just said. It feels like this is going to be a really big result for West Ham and not for the right reason, Bob. No, 10 games without a win. More than quarter of the season, really. You're wondering where's the answer now? Looking at Nuno and saying, where's he going to go? Where are the club going to go with this? You can't see the games going on much longer than this. You can't see the club continuing much longer than this with the results like this. They need 30 points at least to stay up, to have any chance of staying up.

2:45They're not going to get close at this rate. What do you think they're going to do? I can't see him staying I can't see it now I can't see how you can go this long without winning a game Tonight wasn't the worst performance by a long shot It wasn't the worst and they still didn't get a result It's heartbreaking but I don't see another answer to this Do you think, Michael, they're going to feel hard done by by this result, West Ham or did Nottingham Forest deserve it? I think you look at the second half I wouldn't say Nottingham Forest deserves it They got the job done and it can be fine margins.

3:19You see that goal from Somerville. I mean, you talk about luck. When it went in, I went, oh, game over. And then all of a sudden, VR comes in. It was the right outcome, right decision that came to it, which we'll talk about it. And it sort of lifted Nottingham Forest. It gave them some belief. They were fortunate with a goal. I mean, poor defending from West Ham at 1-1. But then you think, here we go. There was only one team that I believe had the momentum and were going to get on and win the game. And it was Nottingham Forest. West Ham are going to be looking back at that disallowed goal, aren't they?

3:47And thinking that could have changed the game. Yeah, that and the penalty, the nuances of the law, the wording of the law is so frustrating to see it, to see it happening. Technically, they're right decisions. But you're looking at them saying, how? You know, what does football expect at times? What are you expecting the goalkeeper to do? What are you expecting the striker to do? They're the technicalities and the wordings. And it's just so frustrating at such a difficult time. When things are going wrong for you, fine moments in the game, the chance to make it 2-0, it would have been completely different, the outcome, if that goal had stood in my opinion, but it didn't.

4:24And that's the fine margins in football. When you're down and things aren't going quite right, the rubber of green doesn't go your way.

4:35Well, who knows what that result will do for Nuno Espirito Santo, but it certainly was a good night, though, for Morgan Gibbs-White, who managed to get the winner for Nottingham Forest in the end. Let's hear from him now. He's been chatting with Johnny Phillips. Morgan, such a tense game, but to get the result, how does that feel? Yeah, incredible. It wasn't a nice game. We knew it was going to be a battle, just because of the position of the both teams. But what I like from the boys is that we didn't give up. We fought to the very end. And yeah, we got a penalty and luckily enough, it went in this time.

5:08Such fine margins as well, because at one stage, It looked like you'd gone 2-0 down and then within moments you got the equaliser? Yeah, again, we seem to keep conceding straight after half-time. But obviously when that got disallowed, it sort of changed the momentum in the game. I think it brought a real belief in the squad and we went on to obviously go and win the game, but outperformed West Ham. So delighted with the three points and happy we got it on the table. You used the word belief there. Do you feel West Ham, with the start they got, perhaps quelled that in you and it took that goal to get you back into it?

5:39Yeah, definitely. And it shouldn't have to be like that. We should be starting every game with the full belief and ready to go on. But it's not been that case recently. Obviously, their goal put us on a downer, but we reacted well. It's a great header from Dominguez, incredible header. And that gave us the belief then to go and show that we can win the game, and we did. You were right at the heart of the penalty decision. What was your view of the whole thing? To be honest, I just got whacked in the face and I didn't have a clue what was going on. Didn't have a clue. I couldn't breathe. So, yeah, when, obviously, I think I just came to my senses when he said it was a penalty, so there was no doubt in my mind I wanted to take it.

6:18And when you took it, I mean, what are the nerves going through? Are you completely shorn in your mind what you're going to do? No doubts? No, no doubts. I was practising it yesterday. So, yeah, no doubts. It's kind of a safety one, but we've got the three points in the end, so, yeah. And in terms of the magnitude of the victory as well, does this set you up going forward for the remainder of the season now? Yeah, I hope so. So, obviously, it's what we want to do. We want to go into the game believing and full of confidence and wanting to get three points every single game. That's not obviously always the case, but now we've got to kick on this year now and start fresh, start again, and hopefully we can start picking up more points and put them on the table and finish the season strong.

6:52And when you talk about kicking on, does that mean lifting the levels of performance still as well? Yeah, definitely. We spoke about it at half-time. Individually, as a team, we need to be better. We need to be mentally alert. Switched on more. I felt like first off, we were just like that one yard off, and then second off, obviously, it picked up and we were good again. So we've got to have that belief that we can go into every game wanting three points and yeah, that's what we're going to do from now on. Well, well done on the win. You're the player of the match too, so enjoy that. Thank you.

7:18Cheers. Thanks, guys. Well, there are clearly lots of positives to take for Nottingham Forest after that result, especially because that means they are now seven points clear of the relegation zone. You heard that from Morgan Gibbs-White saying that they kind of want to start afresh this year. How much can they use this result as momentum now? Well, that's the biggest boost to be seven points clear after that match. Going into it, you could feel the tension. You could feel that in the performance from both sets of players. It was far from a classic, but so much riding on it. The difference it could have been.

7:48One point if West Ham win. Seven points now for Nottingham Forest and they have to kick on. FA Cup at the weekend and then we've got Arsenal. So it was a huge, huge night tonight and Maughan Gibbs-White steps up late on with a crucial penalty that gets them the victory. You're a West Ham player in the dressing room now. How are you feeling? Oh, that's it. you're feeling crestfallen. You don't know where your next point's going to come from. That seven points feels monumental. When it's always one game, if it's within three points, you feel like you've got a chance. It's three games. It's three wins on the bounce.

8:21They haven't had that all season. You know, you were looking and saying, where's your next result coming from? Where's the answer coming from? Where's the momentum from any new signings that are going to come in for the rest of the season? Are they going to come now? When they look at the league table, There are no good answers right now. OK, then. Well, let's hear from one of the players that is going to be in that dressing room, Thomas Suchek. He's been speaking with Jonny Phillips. Thomas, does that feel like a very difficult defeat to explain? Yeah, sure. We wanted to win. We were winning in the half-time.

8:52It was so close to be 2-0 and I think we would get all three points, but we lost the game and it's so tough for us because we know where we are on the position. In terms of the start to the game, was that exactly what you needed? Do you feel you improved significantly from what happened at the weekend? Yes, I was very happy from the start. We created a few chances, then we scored a goal. I was just as happy as I could be from all of it in the first half-time. Then we scored the second, and I think when it was disallowed, it a little bit kept us down. and then it was tough obviously but it's so difficult to lose by the goal at the end.

9:33The goal for Nottingham Forest seemed to give them a lot of confidence. Did you lose confidence in that moment as a team? Yes, I said when we scored the second and was disallowed and in a few minutes we conceded for the draw. It was tough for us and Nottingham Forest had all joy at that moment for 10-20 minutes. So we just wanted to keep going because I believe that we will score the goal, the winning goal. And then it was the opposite. It came down to a VAR decision with the penalty, asking the referee to go and have a look at the monitor. What was your view of that penalty? For me, it's a joke because I just saw it.

10:13Obviously, we can have 20 penalties per game if it's like that. I came to the Premier League because I thought it was the toughest league in the world and we are all fighters, warriors. but this looks like it's more like basketball because you can't touch the player. That's what I saw but it's only my opinion. And how is Alphonse Areola in the dressing room? Yeah, he's the same. He didn't know who he's fouled. He just went for the ball and I think I cleared it and that was already out and we didn't know why it was VIR and then was the penalty. So it was really tough for all of us. How tough is it at the moment for this squad?

10:50because you're desperately in need of this win and your closest competitor have now gone three points ahead of you. Yeah, I know what position it is and this is not anymore time for some nice words that we have so many games, but we have to do it from the first game, now it's Tottenham, and that's the game we have to be winning because we need to win a few games in a row. It's not like I know that seven points and it's not like, OK, we win two games, but we have to win a few games in a row. I still believe, obviously, I will believe until then, but I have to say that we are in a really bad position.

11:31You have the belief, but do you sense the belief exists throughout the squad? Yeah, I believe. So, obviously, we have to show the honesty between each other, the truth that who cares, who not. and that's what we have to do because if someone is easy to play and relaxed, he has to be out of the squad. But I just believe that all of us will look to the mirror and know the position we are and nobody from the squad will want to play second division next season. It's a big moment as well for Nuno. It's a very difficult moment for him as head coach and he's the man there to be fired at. How do you view his situation as well?

12:13Does the squad still have complete backing for him? Yeah, sure. We have to be behind the manager always until the end, and that's what a strong squad can make. And I believe that, yeah, he can be a big help for us because he did a lot through the Premier League already. But obviously, it's up to all of us. It's obviously Nuno as a manager, all of us as a players. It's all training ground, and especially for them, I just want to keep going and do maximum because even for them is so important. We don't want to lose their jobs if we go to second division, and that's also important for me. So I just want to go for all of us, even as a fan, that we need to stick together.

12:57Well, thanks for your time, Thomas. Thank you.

13:02So Thomas Suchek clearly showing that he's behind the manager, but he knows how much of a difficult situation this is at the moment for West Ham. Some interesting points that he made there. He definitely didn't think it should have been a penalty. We'll have a look at it all in a minute when we go through the analysis. But your initial thoughts on his interview? Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, Thomas Socek is, you know, West Ham through and through. The fact he's still playing is part of the problem. They keep on having every manager that goes there goes back to Thomas Socek. And he says, there, we have to win three games on the bounce.

13:33They haven't done that for more than two years. So therein lies the problem. So they're going to have to do something that in recent history hasn't happened. And how you go about that, how that happens, I'd love to have an answer. I'd love to stand here and say to you, this is how you do it. I just don't know right now. Well, West Ham were leading at half time. They thought they had got their second goal, which is where we're going to start our analysis for this one. They thought they'd got their second goal. It was called offside, disallowed. disallowed, much to, I suppose, the dismay of a lot of the West Ham fans and players as well.

14:07Yeah, completely in real time. I didn't see it. But when you see it there, Tati Castanios, he's in the offside position and you see Somerville, when he's driving forward, he makes that touch and it's not a deliberate pass by Milenkovic. Yes, it touches him, but then when you see he comes back, gets a ball, plays a ball to Kyle Walker-Peters, I mean, take nothing away from the finish from Somerville. It's outstanding, the touch and finish. and you think 2-0 up, they're going to be in cruise control, then VAR steps in. And for me, it's the right outcome. When you see it and the lines are drawn on, I've just said he was in an offside position and these are the letter of the laws and why it was given offside.

14:46Let's just explain actually what the law is. Castellanos in an offside position for deliberate players when a player has control of the ball with the possibility of passing the ball to a team mate or gaining possession of the ball or clearing the ball, for example, by kicking or heading it. There's another page to this as well, which then shows considerations for determining uncontrolled action, which also means not deliberate play. The ball travelled from short distance and or the player does not have a clear view of it. The ball was moving quickly. The direction of the ball was unexpected. The player had limited or no time to coordinate their body movement.

15:23For example, clearly a case of instinctive stretching or jumping. Yeah. And that's where the outcome comes, where it touches Milenkovic. Yes, Somerville has the touch. And that's when he was in an offside position, if we can see it. But he was. He was clearly, when the lines are in, he's in an offside position. It's so, so fine. And it's such a fine margin. And this was a game-changing moment for me. It clearly, clearly was. If West Ham are giving this goal and it's 2-0 up, it's game over, in my opinion. But when you see it, we've just seen the letter of the laws. And for me, it was the right outcome.

15:55Explain your point of view of this, Rob. Yeah, it's so frustrating, but it is a technicality within there. If you're looking at Milenkovic, if Milenkovic had control of the ball and then played it to Tati Kasianos, then he would be onside. But because it is that initial little nick and it moves the ball, it is that short pace of time. It is an uncontrolled movement in that he hasn't got time to weigh up how to play it, where he's playing it to. then it's deemed to be, he's still deemed to be offside. That in there sort of negates, those wording negates any sort of nick, any sort of stroke off a player, a touch off a player as it's coming through that could be deemed to say, well, all of a sudden, who's touched the ball?

16:40How much has he touched it? It's flick to shirt. That sort of thing takes that out of the question. That again, it's what does football expect? That's a frustrating one. Is it the letter of the rule and is it right? It is. OK, well, you mentioned it was an interesting time for it to happen because it kind of turned the game a little bit, didn't it? And it gave Nottingham Forest the opportunity. I think it was less than two and a half minutes after the restart, Nottingham Forest got an equaliser. Yeah, and if that goal goes in to make it 2-0 to West Ham, I think it's a completely different game.

17:12However, it sort of kick-started Nottingham Forest. Give them something to go out there and can we get a reaction? and they certainly got that in swinging corner from Elliot Anderson. Dominguez comes from nowhere. We talked about the Nottingham Forest one. He gets in front of Katis Castaños. And then people say it's an outstanding header. For me, he's just guided in hope for the best. When you get in front of that post, you just try and flick it on and hope for the best and you see it loop into the back of the net. And soon as they brought it back to 1-1, I thought there was only going to be one winner then.

17:42They had all the momentum. They had that belief that wasn't there before they got to level. and then this happens. This is the penalty incident that Thomas Suchek was a joke. What did you think, Rob? Again, you ask him, what would you, Alphonse Areola, what do you want him to do? You want him to go and take command, go into the bodies. But as soon as you go into the bodies, and this again is down to what the referees interpret, you are taking your actions out of your hands and you are culpable like anybody else on the pitch. Now, if that was a centre-half heading Morgan Gibbs-White in the face, you'd say that's a penalty.

18:16It's not. It's so frustrating because you want Alfao Sariola to come. You want him to do that, but he doesn't win the ball. And the fact he's gone into bodies, if he's under the crossbar and he does that, then he gets more leniency because he's in his zone that he's expected to be in. But he goes into the bodies and therefore it becomes an issue for him. Is that because of his momentum takes him in and he goes to clean him out and is in danger in opposition? He's in danger in the opponent. It can be deemed reckless. And therefore, from that point on, I think really the result is kind of out of Alphonse Alliola's hands.

18:52And it can be deemed a penalty. It's one we've seen as years gone by. It's the way that the game's going. We saw it at the start of last season, I think it was, with Manchester United and Nana against Wolves. They got that one wrong. Yeah, so that's why it's come to this. Nana cleaned out the opponent. And the PGMOL came out and said, sorry, we've got that wrong. That should have been a penalty. this is something similar. But it was also a very big pressure penalty, I suppose, for Morgan Gibbs-White to get three very important points. And you can trust a player like this in this position to score from the penalty spot.

19:25Well, you couldn't in Europe when he missed against Sturngratz, but you could tonight. I mean, and that shows a character of Morgan Gibbs-White. He steps up, captain of this team, big pressure moments, and he didn't disappoint. He said, practice yesterday, when you're under a little bit of pressure, you go safe, straight down the middle, and it gives them the victory. OK, then, really interesting to hear then what the West Ham manager has to say about this result today. Nuno Espirito Santo has been speaking to Johnny Phillips. Nuno, it must be a heartbreaking way to lose a game, but can you give us your assessment of it?

19:54I think we did enough good things to win the match today. I think the boys really worked hard. We got advantage, we scored a goal, rolled out by a fine margin of offside. It was the moment of the game. then a lot of incidents happened. But nothing to say about the hard work of the boys today. We'll go to the end, really, because that was the key moment. What was your view of that penalty decision? We had a lot. It happened so many times during the matches that we get confused about the rules, honestly. So many times this has happened and not been given penalties, so we cannot quite understand.

20:32As a former goalkeeper yourself, you looked at Areola there and maybe thought there was nothing he could do differently? He goes for the ball, there's Thomas Suszek, he takes the ball out and then he cannot stop his movement, so... Hard to explain. You said there were a lot of good things about that performance and I imagine the way the team started and got control early and got a goal early must have pleased you a lot. Yeah, that was the idea and the boys did it. We had good combinations, we controlled, we had the threat in attack. It was a good first half and we started pretty well the second half.

21:07I insist, there's a fault on the edge of the box that leads to Forest going out on Somerville. So this takes the mind out of the place and makes it hard to explain how things happen. There were such close margins as you touched on. It went from possibly 2-0 to then 1-1. In that moment do you feel the players lost a bit of confidence and lost a bit of that character they had? No, no, no, they keep fighting, they keep till the end. We knew how important this match was in the boys till the end. We had chances. Didn't go to ours today. The goal that got them back for us, back in the game, it was another one from a corner as well.

21:47Is it becoming increasingly frustrating to see goals like that go in? Yeah, we scored from a corner also, Johnny. So we have to try and do better, but it's a flick ball, it's hard to defend, it's not about organisation. Can you tell us the mood of the players in there at the moment? Because it looks like you're just not getting a break, you do need something to change. Yeah, but we keep living, we keep sticking together and it's not over yet, we'll keep on going. We spoke to Thomas Tuchek and he said that, he said there was a lot of belief in the squad, a lot of belief in you. What message would you give to the West Ham fans who are seeing a team that's not winning at the moment?

22:24It's hard to ask them anything, it's hard to explain. We understand their frustration, the sadness. And we are all the same. What can we say? Keep helping us, keep helping us. And again, today they show that when the team gives, they give back the support that we need. I think today the boys show that we are here to keep a fight. I suppose there's two sides to this next question as well. You talk about that fight. Is there still a lot of determination in you? There's no doubt that you want to carry on with the fight, that you want to get West Ham out of this situation? Johnny, you know me for many years and I'll keep on going, keeping believing, keeping working on the boys, realising that this is part of the game.

23:07Sometimes you have good moments, sometimes you have bad moments, but you have to be resilient enough to understand the situation and it's the game. And I will make sure that my boys believe it also. And do you feel you get the support from above as well that is crucial? Of course, of course. We have to be in this together. One last question, Callum Wilson wasn't in the squad today, can you explain his situation? Look Johnny, since I arrived in my career I'm very honest with the players, very honest with the players, so I'll keep it this way. Is he free to leave at this moment then? No, I'll keep it this way Johnny, we have tomorrow to speak and to solve things but I'm very honest and very direct.