Haaland and Foden star as Man City put three past rivals Man Utd

20:39Well, we reflect on United even at the start of the season so far. Four games. There's a four points and four goals. Conceded at seven. Obviously got beaten by Grimsby as well. For all the money they've spent and obviously new manager coming in I need need time to settle in need to preseason needs his own players just very Very average team in this Premier League There's no signs things are getting better for this United well talk about too easy. What about the third goal? Well, obviously he's Harland we know we know strengths and that United again all over a place to trying to get back into the game sloppy Play again if you stop it there look a United defenders my goodness You've got one of the best strikers in the world run from the halfway line.

21:16Maguire's never catching him. And there was never any doubt he was going to finish it. Again, look at United here. The players' body language short. These players, he's obviously onside, of course. He's run from his own half. And then you never doubt him. And it's just this little touch here. Just that one there. Just gives him a chance to open it out. And these players, Haaland. It's that little one there, just a keeper. All the great strikers, listen. Brilliant finish. And again, never in doubt. And he probably could have scored a few more.

21:41Gary Neville:You had a fancy for Haaland today. Royce Wright, he could well have had a hat trick. Yeah, I mean, I said before the game, I don't know, it's just his energy, the way he is in the national break, he just seems, Harlem, he seems happy, he seems energised, and, yeah, I had him in my fantasy as well, so I wanted more. I expected to score that. I don't know what he's doing. I think everybody in the world expected him to score that. But in terms of putting himself out, another Daku pass there, over there, lovely touch, round the goalkeeper, he's put it in. Is he trying to knock it back post because the defender's coming across?

22:11Yes, I think that's exactly what he's trying to do. But if you look at his touch here, he can just side-foot it now. He dives into it where he didn't need to dive into it. You know, when the City players were going down the side of United, they were running away from... As if United players were cut out, as if they didn't realise how quick City were or sharp they were. United looked like, I didn't know he'd be coming down the side of me. You must have done your preparation. You must have watched these players week in, week out. They seemed cut out all the time. As if, I didn't expect Haaland to be on my shoulder.

22:41what else is he going to be? I think we give credit for Haaland for obviously his attacking player, but again, you're on about being a team player, we'll praise him as well for coming back and doing a good job defensively. You have to give him a thumbs up for that.

22:53Gary Neville:We have to, well, we've got some evidence of that as well. It was the all-round performance. I think someone used the word leadership. Was that you, Mike, that we were talking about? We're seeing a different Haaland this season. Is this further evidence of that? So, go on, Isi. Well, these are clips, Gary spoke about it on commentary, and rightly so, because in these defensive moments, you need him. You know, you look at his stature and it'd be foolish not to use him on set pieces defensively. And I think that he just kind of epitomised his performance. He looked like a man possessed today. And I think we're looking at clips here of him defending set pieces, balls in the air, clearances.

23:25But then we looked at clips of him throughout the game of the pressing and the energy. Like, his high-speed running today must have been through the roof because even when he didn't need to jump up and press by and dear, he was doing it. And I think that sends a message to the team. We do speak about a head in the year six or four, you know, there's a good chance the ball's going to hit his head as well, to be fair. Yeah, but not everyone who's six or four has been in the air. Or want to head it. Right. There's a good chance you're going to head the other.

23:52Gary Neville:How would you grade his all-round play today? Excellent. Is he going up in your estimation now? He's championship now. Come on! He's general player. Come on! You've got a world-class striker. What was that, 90 goals? Absolutely. There's no doubt about that. There's no doubt about that. I've never said that. World-class striker. And it is improving, of course. He's 25. No, yeah, the pennies dropped with him. He's got to be more of a team player as well. Seems to be this debate, who's the best in the world or the best in the league right now, Isaac or Haaland, neither had swapped one for the other.

24:21No, I mean, Haaland, what he's done, not just at Man City before, at Dortmund as well. Isaac's probably more complete in terms of coming to the ball and all that sort of stuff. But out-and-out goalscorer, I'm choosing Haaland every day of the week. When he was true for that second chance. Every day of the week. That's the player you'd want. Every day of the week, pick Haaland. He's so consistent. And he's still got so long to go.

24:49Gary Neville:90 Premier League goals, 50 in 50 home appearances. Special player Erling Haaland. Let's get some Manchester United reaction. Bruno Fernandes now with Patrick. Well, Bruno, hard to find positives when you lose a derby by that scoreline. No, it's not hard. You have to look at what you did well and obviously it's not enough because you want to win football games and not see positives from the game. What we did today was not enough to get a result and that's all we have to take from this game. Obviously, look at what you have to do better and go forward to the next game. OK, what's the answer to that?

25:24What do you need to do better? We need to score goals and not concede. That's the main thing of football and I think we keep creating chances to score. We're not able to score as many or as much as we wanted and I think we have to be more in control in certain situations. Obviously, I think we concede three goals where we could have avoided. I think the first one, we need to be born brave when we go on a full pressure on a 1v1. As City takes that risk today against us, we need to do the same. And then the second goal from a true win, I think we need to be much more aware in that moment. and the third goal, things like that can happen and then you need to be better positional to not get a counter like that.

26:08So just give us your perspective on the first goal, because you mentioned it there, looked at one point like you had Foden and then obviously Doki beats his man, you look like you go out and obviously at this level it only takes a second, he's in behind you and he scores. I was trying to press Rodri because the aim for the game was for one of the midfielders to jump on Rodri, one of defenders jumping on on foldon in the first moment where uh where we i can cover both and then lenny decides to come up when i look at him i see that he comes up so i i try to go a little bit more towards towards rodry uh very old does a good pass to to foldon and lenny was was going uh going backwards and because of a miscommunication we end up giving too much space for them to go up the pitch and that's what i mean i think when we we go we need to take more risk and we have to be more brave with the last line to be a little bit more high.

27:00Because if you see City, every time we pass the ball backwards to our centre-backs, they go on three against three and their line squeezes so much and it's very difficult to play through the lines because the spaces between them are very, very narrow. How challenging as well is it sometimes as a midfield to it looked, from where I was sat, like they're trying to overwhelm you in that area, outnumber you in that area. Do you sense that? Do you feel that? No, because we play with the back five or sometimes with the back four or the back three or whatever you want to call it. And we need obviously people to be very, very aggressive in the moment of pressure.

27:36We need to get the moments of jumping because if not, the midfielders get every time under load. Because if you look at the city, they had Rodri, Tigi, Bernardo coming in. Then they had Foden. they make basically a midfield four against the two. So you need the ones in behind you to jump. Like Luke was doing very well on DG, like we did it in the first game against Arsenal. That's why they didn't play. They couldn't find the spaces to play. And that's what makes the spaces very narrow for the teams to play against a team that is very aggressive when you go on the front foot. If you're not brave enough to do that, it's very difficult.

28:14And then they will find the spaces and the gaps to play because we're playing against a top team. We're not playing against a bad opponent. and obviously when you play against teams with this quality they will find the small gaps and they will play the balls. I know it's difficult in this moment but does it still feel like you're kind of heading in the right direction? Because at times this season it has felt like that but then you have obviously nights like Grimsby and then you have a day like today which like you say maybe there's positives in the performance but it's a pretty heavy defeat against your City rivals.

28:42Of course, I think the result is very bad and it's very bad on us but I think it's two ways of looking at this game because I think the goals could have been avoided from our side. I think on the ball we were very, very positive. We were very brave. We were playing the ball forward. When we created our chances, we could have been a little bit more clean with our chances but we did not get anything from that. So we wanted what City got was the three points and it doesn't matter how you get it. City was smart to get the goals in the way they did. They have a very good team, very good players and obviously complimented them.

29:20Thank you. Thank you very much. I can explain that.

29:24Gary Neville:Well, a lot of tactical chat from Bruno Fernandes. When you think about what he said there, Roy, is that a suggestion that the system is at fault there or the way they've actually tried to deploy the system against such a good side? I don't think he was saying that. He's not going to come out after a game. Is that criticising the system? I don't think so. We also know most, every team that a Peps manager, he tries to overload the midfield, outnumbers, whatever the system might be. But he's made the point, I think it's a pretty honest interview, that they should have done better for the goal, as simple as that.

29:56They should have been sharper in their own play going forward. But I said it earlier, this United team, they lack that real quality. They struggle defensively, the midfield. We're talking about United breaking the press, but when teams get United, United look all over the place. I think they're just United are an average team, an average Premier League team. The stats will tell you that. I'm going back to last season as well. So, again, we're sitting here. United's record as well against any of the top six teams or whatever is really, really poor. They can't seem to compete. They'll have maybe a good 45 minutes or a good hour.

30:28Bruno makes the point here. They've kind of done it quite well against Arsenal, but they lost the game at home to Arsenal. Ultimately, you are playing for Man United to win football matches. I'm going to say I'm more comfortable against quality teams. Yeah, but that's part of the challenge. When you sign that contract, you're going, yeah, it's no good just beating the teams, the lesser teams. You're playing for Man United to compete against other good teams. And United can't do that. Whether they're not good enough, there's obviously issues. Talk about the system, but the manager's come in. He's sticking to his guns.

30:57He's not budging. But the results, and we look at points per game, and the goals, four goals against. So that's a concern, isn't it? Yeah, it does concern me. It's not good reading. and I came here today and sometimes you think United with a bit of history, they've done it last year, but as soon as the game starts you're looking and going, oh, you know, you're worried. But you get that feeling against when they're playing any decent team. Even when you think, we said they've scored four goals and we think United are a bit better going forward now. Two of them were penalties, so they're not exactly a free-scoring team and going, listen, we might score two or three and we might give up a few.

31:31It's like almost the same problem as last year. and we were told the new manager needs a pre-season, he needs his own players, I don't know how much they've spent, they're not a good few hundred million. Over 200 million, yeah. 200 million? Over 200 million. Over 200 million. So we keep making excuses, but at some stage you go, when are we going to see the signs? Now people say give manager time, of course, but we saw Slock going into Liverpool last year, Liverpool might have been a kind of a better team at United at that stage, but he ends up winning the league. You look at other managers, you see Frank going into Spurs, you go, am I going to see signs of Spurs improving?

31:58And yeah, so how long do you keep waiting when this team are probably getting a point a game?

32:03Gary Neville:that's that's what you'd probably those managers that you talked about and I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this as well guys you talked about Thomas Frank known for being an adaptable flexible manager slot sort of didn't try and change too much when he went in and almost just tried to tweak Jurgen Klopp's system so yeah my worry is the problem is with the manager and the tactics he's deployed my worry is with the players though and Bruno's talking there and is that maybe that maybe the players haven't got that much faith in it so as much as the manager's going, this is where we're going, lads.

32:33And at the start, you're probably going, yeah, new manager, new ideas, something different. But as the results don't come and you keep getting beaten or you're struggling against the better teams, if the players start doubting this system, and we saw some of the goals they're giving up today where some are going, some aren't, some are pressing. He's making loads of changes. He's chomping at you. Back with the Maguire at the back. He's bringing in Casemiro. And it's like, it's like they're going around in circles, this United group. And if the players have lost faith in what the manager's saying, because usually, what do you want?

32:58And you're sitting in dressing. When the manager says something, you're like, yeah, yeah. I'm all in. But if some of the players are now starting to doubt that, I'm not saying they are, but when you see some of the goals they're given away, you're going, are you all fully on board with this manager? Going, listen, yeah, whatever you say, we'll do it. We'll run through brick walls for you. I don't quite see it yet. I hope it can change. But we've given the benefit out when he first came in. He didn't want to come in. He said he wanted to come into pre-season, but obviously United said you've got to come in.

33:21So results weren't great. Okay, listen, first pre-season, give me pre-season, give me my players. And United are throwing money. And if these are brilliant coaches, you go, what are you going to coach these players to make them better? Because some of the decision-making, some of these players are making as well, which we've seen today, it's like, it's just all wrong. And they're not having the strength of the football. We see Shaw for the first goal. Now, Shaw's an international footballer. For him to get caught up like that, you're looking going, do you know, Shaw, I think Shaw's been getting away with murder for years at United.

33:48Always injured, never quite fit. We make excuses. Then he gets a few games under his belt. And he's making decisions like he doesn't even want to tackle people. like we looked at all the stats in the derby match there not one yellow card and we're having a big build-up the Manchester Derby the weather's it's raining it's like set up for a few tackles are flying in you get Pete imagine I'd walk off the pitch no I'm sick of repeating myself you walk up you go to dad became was a whole you physically yeah shattered you you you shouldn't be able to get out of bed for a week after a tough game and they're all walking off this not a not one yellow card.

34:23First time ever in a Manchester derby. You've got to set up right though. In terms of Man City's strengths, their strengths in midfield would dominate the game. They could attack you for the goals, Micah. Yeah, yeah, of course. But what's happening is, they've got two in midfield against Man City's three in midfield. How are you supposed to cope with that? And we're talking about Foden, Rodri and Rinders. We're the best midfielders in European football. We've all played in games where you're midfielders, the system you're up against, you have an extra midfielder. But you try and compensate set with someone.

34:51But that's the problem. You've got an extra centre back. The centre back has to jump if you're going to play. Which is what Bruno was saying. Exactly that. But what's happening is they're not jumping at the correct times. Right, well you get that. You saw that with your team. That's a new buzzword. We jump. Try tackling. Try hitting somebody. Football's a physical game. We love it. I agree with what you're saying to be a bit more physical, but you have to be in the right positions. Going out there against these players who can keep the ball for fun, you can't get anywhere near it. And if you've got five at the back just holding it and you've got two in midfield running around like headless...

35:29But the reason they can't get near... It's impossible to get near anywhere near. But the reason they can't get near me is because they're not mobile enough, they're not fast enough, they're not aggressive enough. They're really good in the ball, but if you gave me time in the ball, I'd still be playing. But part of the game is people closing you down or being aggressive or hitting your lair, making it physically demanding. I agree, but we talk about systems all the time, but I genuinely believe Man United would be a better team if they played 4-3-3. I do. I think they've got the players for it now.

35:54I think this system is hindering them. They don't know what they're doing. When they're on the ball, they're trying to make something happen. The manager's trying to coach them, but it's not working. Does that make sense? The only validation they're getting in this system, in the 3-4-3, is when they switch the play, it looks good. Correct. But there's nothing else. Or a counter-attack. Or a fast break. Fast break. Buzzword. It's how they are effective. It's how they're effective. They either attack really quickly or they switch the play with the two... You speak about the two midfielders, right, in front of the three, the back three.

36:30They're so stiff and rigid and there's no kind of offset shape to them. So, like, for the goal, the first goal, if Agarte doesn't jump out level with Bruno Fernandes and he offsets, I don't think that goal happens, the opening goal. Can we see that goal again? We've got that because it's so important. I'm sick of having to repeat yourself. The players are good enough to... We're scurrying.

36:52Gary Neville:We're scurrying. They're a lot better than what they're showing. I don't know, Mike. I'm not sure some of them are. OK, well, they're not... I'm not sure some of them are. OK, I don't know if we can play this slowly. Just run it slowly. I have to pause it now. Pause it now. Pause it now. So, you've got three of your... Around the circle. Around the circle, around the edge of it. Yeah, but there's still no danger there, Mike. You want to set a half, Delecht, to come across. That's the first point. Run it on slow. Yeah, there's no danger there, Mike. It's back to the player. Hold on, hold on. Pause it there.

37:24If he's over there, he can deal with Doku. He can stop it at source. That is the problem. Roll it on slow it. Now, Doku gets the ball, he's on the half-turn. Loon Shaw, pause it there. Now he's in between the lines. He's beat the midfield line there. Now Shaw can only drop off. Once the ball goes on, this is where I agree with you. Now, this is where Shaw has to be tough and tackle. Take a foul. That is too easy. So then you get into this position here. They've still got three defenders in the box. OK, you talk about marking. Pause it there. Fernandes in the two. He's been doing so much work running back and forward.

38:06He's thinking, where's the ball? He leaves Foden, run it on slowly there. No organisation. So you've got Jorah, Shaw and Fernandes all late because they don't... Which could have been sorted five seconds ago. Michael, look, circled here now, but also Haaland. If we just pause it there, Haaland is occupying... Well, three defenders are occupying Haaland. And everybody knows that maybe you need to have two around Haaland. Correct. But three is crazy. So De Ligt needs to just move across. And Agarte, the fact that he's stepped out, Foden, Dacu and Rodri have created a little triangle in there. And Fernandes doesn't know who to mark.

38:44And this is the most basic pass Rodri will ever play. Because as he steps in, Agarte, turns in the pocket. And then Foden just recognises in that moment that that's when I can start to attack. Fernandes is ball-watching. Yeah, but they're all mistakes. But he's ball-watching. I know, but these are all mistakes. But these are all mistakes. to two midfielders one pass regarded it i made he's got to just tuck in there let the ball go wide and they'll look at shaw's body language well he's flat isn't it yeah he's flat he doesn't even get down low to say you're going to do well to beat me he beats him in the yard and then this last bit more going but if you're a midfielder you can't let your midfielder get that side of you but in fairness to bruno that's not his strength he's very good going forward gary gary neville's joined us

39:28Gary Neville:and gary just just by way of introduction for you we've just been discussing this is our second look at the goals actually because we've been discussing what was at fault today was it the system or the way it was deployed are Manchester United good enough to play in this way or should they be just throwing it out that's easy one piece he's not going to I mean when when when Ruben Amman first came I was quite heartened by the fact that he was going to play three at the back because I felt that they didn't have two centre-backs that were good enough to play in a four but every single time I watch Manchester United he changes the back three every single game which tells you he's not sure about which back three he should play.

40:02Gary Neville:And he doesn't just change the back three, he changes the back five. So you either have different wing-backs or you have different centre-backs. I mean, the amount of times you see Dillard go over to the right-hand side, Maguire coming on, every single match. So, look, system, no system. There are a lot of individual errors out there today as well. Luke Shaw had one of his worst games that I've seen him have. He's had a pretty decent start to the season, but all three goals he could have done better. He's just shown the one there where he was square. on the second goal he was you know he got obviously you know done by Haaland and on the third goal he leaves it short for Maguire who then obviously doesn't help himself either by the pass so yeah they just had a really bad day at the back but it was a bit of a nothing from United I mean they had little moments 15 minutes in the first half at the start and they had five minutes in the second half before City scored but look the 14th in the league it's only four games in and we all said at the end of last season we can't be getting into October where Manchester United are 14th, 15th in the league or else the manager will be in trouble.

40:56Gary Neville:Now there's a few games to go before that, but they have to start winning quickly. More on this in just a moment. We will get to a break. We've got to hear still from both the managers as well, so we'll do that in just a moment. We've got to hear from Ruben Amarim. We've been talking a lot about him, but what's his impression of what we've seen here at the Etihad this afternoon? Pep Guardiola to come as well, but Ruben Amarim comes next.

41:23Gary Neville:think you'll love too. There's the Gary Neville podcast for Gary's immediate reaction to the biggest matches. Transfer Talk has the latest on all the big moves in and out of the Premier League and beyond. And for WSL fans, check out Pitch to Pod with Jordan Nobbs and Nikita Paris. Just search for Sky Sports wherever you get your podcasts. For now though, let's get back to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast.

41:57Gary Neville:Well, he's had a miserable day, hasn't he? In the rain in Manchester, a 3-0 defeat on the blue half of the city and Ruben Amram is talking to Patrick Davison. Well, Ruben, obviously the result is a disappointment. Was the performance as well or did you not see it like that? No, because we are a big team and a big team in certain moments are a big team. And if you look at our three goals, we can avoid these goals. Doku with a lot of space surrounding for players. We can be more aggressive. Of course, the ball bounces. In this moment, Balsons and go to Foden. In the second half, we start really well.

42:38And then to suffer that kind of goal in the throw-in, because we want to recover the ball so fast when we have to cover the space and then run to press, we let two players, one against one. Lenny's going from outside. it's not inside and then small pass small run and he scores uh island and then you have the opportunity to open the game with brian great save from the opponent all these small details may make make the difference so then you can create chances you can uh play well divide the game but in the end in this kind of games um in with top teams the small details will make the difference.

43:17The performance is not good when in the important moments they were better than us. So at the end you don't have that good feeling. Bruno joined us for an interview and talked about how City were trying to make it basically four against two in midfield. How should you deal with that and how did you deal with that? It's the same thing. It's always the same conversation. They put four in the middle. we have three center defenders, two midfielders, you can see Brian is always inside, Sesco is there, so that conversation is always the same thing, so we play last year the same way, of course with difference because the opponent is playing in a different way against Liverpool, against all these teams in the same way, so it's not the midfielders, because again, if you feel it, what you are going to do in the first goal.

44:15What has to do with the amount of midfielders. Doku receives the ball, turns to the defence and then takes two guys inside the box. Then the second half, you start really well with two midfielders. You are near the box, controlling the game and then throw in goal. Third goal, you are controlling the game, trying to open the game. Brian has a great opportunity. Ahmad is pushing on the side. we have some distraction who is going to the ball. Allent has all the field to run, so it's not to do with the midfielders. So, a genuine question, and I know you don't agree with the system questions, but do you never have the sense that you just sometimes find yourselves one short in midfield and one light up top?

45:01No, because it's three defenders, then it's five midfielders. It's the way you want to see the games. I saw a lot of teams playing here with five midfielders, just blocking. And they suffer more than us. I see a lot of games from Manchester United playing here with a lot of midfielders. Opportunities sometimes were one, two. So it's not about that. And again, sometimes we play with three defenders, five defenders, four defenders. Sometimes it's five midfielders, two midfielders. It depends on the game of the opponent. So how do you feel about where the team is at after seeing that? Because we did an interview a couple of days ago and so much suggests there's been progress.

45:49Then obviously you lose pretty comfortably to your big city rivals. There's a Grimsby result as well. So it's quite hard to make the wood from the trees. Where do you think you're at? Yes, we play against one coach that won seven Premier Leagues and we are building things, trying to fight against these teams again. I'm not going to defend myself. It's always the same question, trying to protect myself. We need to do better. But again, if I look to the game, last year we draw and we won against City and today we were a little bit better in certain things, but in the small details, clearly, it was not good enough.

46:34so I don't know what to tell you about that part of what moment is always the same question we are building things and then of course we need to win So sometimes I know you find speaking off the game quite difficult because you're often quite emotional you don't seem like that right now do you feel like when you get down on the players you get down on yourself but now you feel a bit happier No, it's not happier I didn't see one player of my team not giving the maximum then the rest is with me what I feel the disappointment sometimes is that I look at my team I think sometimes I felt that we could run more I didn't have that feeling if I have that feeling I will be okay so I am emotional when I feel that we can do better in effort when you don't do it's my fault it's not their fault so I will be fine with that sometimes I'm emotional sometimes I just move on and go to the next game I know that is a step that is a game that is really hard on our fans and a lot of fans are pundits.

47:41And I know that. But again, I cannot point one thing to one player of effort. With the game intelligence, a lot of things, yes, we can improve. But that is my fault and that is my part. So I'll be OK. I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Thank you. Cheers, Wig.

47:56Gary Neville:Well, it is a high pressure job. every defeat is a crisis if you're the Manchester United manager and he's had plenty in his short period in time is there a danger that we everybody we know the headlines are going to be tomorrow are going to overreact to this no we're just giving our opinions of what we've seen he said there he's not too angry he's had with happy with the effort they've lost three nil in a derby game should be fuming he should be raging and he's an emotional guy but when he's talking about the effort of the players, but you've got to, I think, their decision-making. He's talking about moments, but football games are decided by moments.

48:34But there always seems to be moments of the opposition than United at this moment in time. And I'm including teams like Grimsby, by the way. So he should be raging. And I like managers with emotion, but I like my managers to show his anger as well. I just couldn't imagine being in a dressing room after losing a Derby game 3-0, and everyone going, yeah, do we all try? You've got to bring quality. Your decision-making. He's talking about people being aggressive and not out of possession when the goals go in. That's when you have to be aggressive. It's called smelling danger when you're a footballer.

49:08And we can criticise the system, but is he going to bring Luke Shaw out on the training pitch and tell him how to get down low and defend properly? That's not his job either, to be fair. But obviously the pressure will be building. They've got Chelsea next week. It's not going to get any easier for this team. and he said he's building something. But while you're building something or you're on a project, you've got to win the odd football match and they're not winning enough games. So the pressure will just build and build over the next few months.

49:35Gary Neville:Is it becoming harder for yourself, for Manchester United fans, to be optimistic about the direction of travel under Ruben Amrim? Look, I think maybe it's because Louis van Gaal and Jose Mourinho are sort of huge, massive personalities in the world of football and when they came into an interview after the game, they were very spiky at times, so it almost brought anger out maybe in the studio. I don't think there's any anger in this studio at this moment in time, and I don't think there's any, there's no ill will towards any manager, but certainly towards Ruben Amrim, I think we all want him to do really well.

50:05Gary Neville:But there are patterns emerging, and there'll be no Manchester United fan that exists that isn't worried at this moment in time about what's going to happen in this next month. And the one thing I would say about the system, and I'm not going to get bogged down on three at the back, five at the back, four at the back, but when he talks about the two in midfield, and Patrick, I thought I asked him two really good questions there about the two in midfield. I think it's about who the two players are, number one, which obviously United haven't got the right two in there, whether that's Casemiro, Garte, Meynou or Fernandes.

50:29Gary Neville:Do you have any players that fit this system? No, he hasn't got the right four in there, so that's a big problem for him. So then you would ordinarily say a manager has to adapt until he gets the right players into the club. He's not been able to do it in this first wave of transfers. Whose decision would that have been, Gary? Because they spent all the money at the top of the pitch, didn't they? No, but I think they need to fix the top of the pitch. I don't disagree with that, but they spent 200-odd million. We were all surprised United had that much money. But just coming back to the two in midfield, there is a pattern, it is a problem.

50:55Gary Neville:So I know that he said it's not a problem in there because he's got three at the back and he's got the three in front. He said he mentioned Ibermo, Sesco and Diallo. I know exactly what he means, but it is a problem. And it's happening in a lot of the games that Manchester United are playing. They start off really compact where all players, the ten players, are connected together. Five at the back, the two midfield are really close to that five, and then the three in front are cuddling that two. So they're really protected. But what happens is if the game becomes a little stretched, And it usually happens when Manchester United concede a goal.

51:24Gary Neville:It happened against Burnley, it happened against Fulham, it happened against, not necessarily against Arsenal, but it happened against Burnley-Fulham. It happened against here today against Manchester City. When Manchester United go a goal down and those three start to be a bit more risk-taking, a bit more expressive, and they start to stretch a little bit, that two then look wide open. And you can't deny that. So, yeah, I get what he means by the fact when they're all compact, but there is a problem that's emerging, that if United have a difficulty in a game and those two end up left in there on their own, there are none of them that are good enough to defend that space though none of them have got legs you'd need Cassado and the area you'd need keen and and that's really Gerrard you need you'd need somebody get found out against decent opposition they can get away against Burnley or draw it full on but against a really good teams the midfield battle if you're losing that battle against the good teams ultimately you're gonna lose football makes it work is the effort why did pet bring docu off the line today into a position I've never seen him bring him into because Manchester United play two It's too flat, it's too rigid.

52:22It's hard to... When you watch this system, we've seen Amarim for over six months now in the Premier League. It's hard to fit... Gary's just alluded to Premier League footballers who played centre midfield, right? It's hard to understand what profile of player plays that role. Because I hear people speaking about, oh, they need legs. OK, if you need legs, you've got Ugarte, but he's not very good on the ball. And then you've got Fernandos, who plays in that role, because he's creative and he can see that forward pass, almost because he knows he wants to receive that type of forward pass himself.

52:50So he's sort of compromising. Casemiro often plays. Then you've got a player in Kobimenu who, in my opinion, is sort of a blend. He's better on the ball than Nogate and he can move around the pitch. And all I hear is, you know, we need dynacism in that midfield, but there isn't any dynacism in that midfield. And also, if they are going to play in front of a back three where you've got three centre-backs, the five-year-old, you used the word there, cuddle, you have to be protective of that area. And that is your shape when you're attacking. but they seem so open when they're beaten on transitions and things like that, and the centre-backs get drawn out too easily.

53:23And it's hard to actually find the profile of player that fits the system, not just in that midfield role, but in other areas of the pitch. You've played in a three at the back. You've played in a four. You've played for whatever system. If he was out there tonight, it's very difficult for you to do your job in that system because you're forever thinking about when you've got to jump into midfield, say you played right of a three, you played right back all your career, bombing up and down, but then you go right of a three, but you're used to certain positions on the pitch and how to defend. I just think it's too confusing for the players.

53:59I think it's easier to go four at the back and push someone in midfield rather than go with a five at the back.

54:05Gary Neville:If you played, wouldn't you have to be one of the main creators of this team as well? So when I did play three at the back under Terry Venables or under Glenn Hoddle, me or Stuart Pearce with the right or left centre-backs. But if a team played one up against us, we would go to a back four. Correct. We would go to a back four. So basically, Stuart Pearce would tuck in alongside, say, Tony Adams. And I'd go then, and obviously they'd have two wide players. So you'd end up basically, I'd shuffle across to right back and be a bit more traditional. Because you don't want three at the back against Erling Haaland.

54:33Gary Neville:So what you see today is that Shaw and Jorrow are having to push into midfield to pick up a player in a position that they're not really sure where they are. And then it leaves spaces behind them. So you are asking players to jump in then, because there's only 3v1 at the back, so it isn't ideal at times. But he plays it very differently, Ruben Amriem. You never see Shaw going out to play left-back and saying, OK, play Dorgou left-wing for like 20 minutes and play Shaw left-back and play, what's he called, Yorou and Dilic in midfield, and Masraou back to right-back. That would have fit today against Bernardo Silva, Doku and Haaland, but they didn't do that.

55:08Gary Neville:They don't do that. They do it a different way where one of the back players goes into midfield. The record is ugly. I'm talking about Reuben Amram's Premier League record since coming in. I thought you put mine up then. You played for me in the back. It's not far off.

55:26Gary Neville:Well, I think your win ratio was actually higher, wasn't it? This 25 % win ratio from 31 Premier League games with a goal difference of minus 13. Gary sort of alluded to October being a time where we need to see progress at what point does some serious consideration have to be taken about whether this is working whether the system is too rigid whether he needs to change or something else needs to change here I don't like talking about managing his job and I never will I don't think it's fair but obviously what he's doing right now is not working. Since his first Premier League game, I think he's got less points than some of the worst teams in the Premier League, you know?

56:11And if you're going to be at Man United, it needs to be better than that. You know, we're stating the obvious here. We constantly talk about Man United and where they've been and all that sort of stuff, but he's a man in a job, and at this moment in time, he's not getting it right. And when you talk about managers, We have to adapt as pundits with all the new terminologies and all that sort of thing He has to he has to adapt as a manager and right now he's not adapting and I don't think the players are Receiving the message in the way that they want to to implement it on the field will they get there Roy?

56:44Gary Neville:If you know we give Ruben Amorim the season and say okay This is another free here. No, it's more hope than belief at this moment of time because you're more watching them We see them week and week out and yeah, not convinced I'm convinced I hope they can prove us wrong. More on about the supporters and the media losing belief in this manager. My worry is if the players aren't truly behind them in terms of the way they're playing in the system because the results just haven't been good enough. Yeah, big worry. Manchester United's best player is Bruno Fernandes and that is my biggest worry. Still?

57:19Gary Neville:He's Manchester United's best player. He's been incredible for five, six, seven years. His numbers are outstanding and would live in any Manchester United era. But in this system, he either has to play as one of a two in midfield, which means he's deep, or he has to play as either like a left-sided forward or a right-sided forward. So that isn't ideal. It reminds me a little bit of when Sebastian Varon came to Manchester United. We were very much a 4-4-2 team. And when Sebastian Varon was very much almost like a 4-3-3 midfield player, where he had like a sitting midfield player with one of the two in front, like the eights, they call it eights now.

57:49Gary Neville:That's what Bruno Fernandes is. He wants someone deep lying behind him and then one of those two in there that plays with a bit of freedom. And that's a bit of a worry that Bruno Fernandes has started to sort of go missing a little bit. If you think about the Europa League final and you think about a game like today, he's not at his best. And he is United's best player. And you need to get the best out of him. You said before the game, Roy, if he doesn't play well, United struggle. And it's difficult for him to play well deep without the ball. It's difficult for him to play as a left winger or a right winger or whatever you want to call those positions that Ruben Amarion plays.

58:20Gary Neville:Cunha's absence, is that something that we should be talking about? City had Cherky, Mamouche, and they had others out today. Stones. I am definitely not going down that route and letting United off the hook because of Cunha. I mean, that's just not happening. City had lots of players out. All right. And they've got the job done very successfully here with a 3-0 victory over Manchester United. And they start to make progress. And what has been a sticky start to their season as well, it was unthinkable that they would lose three on the bounce and so it proved. 3-0 victory and we'll get the thoughts of Pep Guardiola next.

58:59Gary Neville:If you're a Sky Sports subscriber, you can watch all the live action directly from the Sky Sports app. Just head to your app store to download it to your device. Not got Sky Sports? Existing Sky customers can upgrade their package or if you've not got Sky, you can sign up at sky.com. Now, let's get back to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast.

59:30Gary Neville:Well, it truly has been a brilliant afternoon for Manchester City. Debut performance from Donnarumma was one to remember. Haaland back at it in front of goal. Not that he ever stops. And Phil Foden returning to be involved as well. Here is Pep Guardiola with Patrick Davison. Well, Pep, obviously it's three points. It's a derby win. Does it also feel like it's a really big day for this team in terms of momentum, in terms of belief? Yeah, we change a lot in this transfer windows. Being at nine players and important players, I was the core of the team for one decade. It was impossible to think about it without them what we achieve and sometimes it's a process.

1:00:13Gary Neville:But we talk a lot these two or three days, what we have to be, even not tactically as a team. today the spirit the body languages the the you know to play fans and have to make uh no all together make around the page and see the faces of the people how happy they were the privilege that we have you can bring joy and some moment of of happiness because i know perfectly how how means the man city you know the man city fans for the derby and uh yeah it's just one game so it's on road but try to build we improve many things but try to build what you have to do Do you feel like it might be a day, and maybe in the media we exaggerate things sometimes, but does it feel like it might be a day you look back on and say, ah, remember that game we beat United, that started things off for this team?

1:01:00Gary Neville:It was just one game. We have done many good things against Tottenham, for example. It's just to read. Today the modern football changed a lot. Today the people are so aggressive in man-to-man. They don't allow you to make the process. I think define that team for many years. allowed to do what you have to do, stay in the position today with a man-to-man, everyone like a machine, you will see Napoli next Thursday. So then you have to adapt, you have to read better the situation, to be less naive to know exactly what happened in certain moments. So during the game, there is not all the game all the time, there are many things.

1:01:36Gary Neville:And last season and this season, we have been so, so poor in that terms. And this question of work, grow up, but the spirit is there. the captains are fantastic and the group still is a joy to be with them. Could you tell us how the football has changed? How the Premier League has changed? I know you touched on it there, but I even see over my shoulder, looking at the stats a second ago, you had less of the ball today, but you produced a pretty dominant performance still. Yeah, at the end we don't like that. I don't like that. So I had the feeling that everyone wanted to win a game, but I want to be a manager that allowed the players to play football.

1:02:10Gary Neville:That's why they became football players. But today, maybe you'll find one, two or three players, teams, and the other one is men-to-men. So leave Erling one against one or two against one, and so aggressive and all the process has to be perfect. And still we are in the process of that, but that step we will do it. Listen, until the last day of my time here, I will try to play the way we have played the last ten years. But we will adjust because the opponent is defending Norway, we have to adjust a little bit. There are a lot of players step up today. Erling Haaland being one. Phil Foden. I don't know the last time he played that well.

1:02:45Jeremy Doku.

1:02:47Gary Neville:We miss a lot. Erling has been incredible since I started, but especially this season, he's better than ever. I would say better than the travel year in terms of dynamics and everything. And adding bits to his game as well, it looks like. Sorry? Adding different bits to his game. He was brilliant in your box today, clearing things. It's a dynamic. It's a dynamic. I don't judge Charlie for the clearance three times in the process, to be honest. We want him to score goals and to help us, but it's so demanding sometimes we do. And Jeremy Red and especially Phil. We need him so much last season. We miss him so, so much.

1:03:21Gary Neville:We play a few. And the year before, we won the fourth Premier League in a row. He was the best player in the Premier League. He's a player when he plays close to striker in the pocket, inside. He sends off the ball, he has all the work. The feel is the core, the heart of that club. He's from the academy, he loves Man City, and having him back is very good news. Did we get our first special Donnarumma moment today as well? You never know if that goes in, and I think maybe any other keeper it does, it may be a different game. Absolutely. The first five minutes of the second half, they were better than minutes.

1:04:01I think it's a good transition.

1:04:01Gary Neville:For the first seven, eight minutes, we're better. We scored the second one in one transition. So, football is like how many times happened to us? We are good at one transition and after the genius or the how good game plan for the opponents will make a transition. So, we don't know why we are built for that, but of course, we have incredible pace in the transition with the players. in Erling Haven, we have to use it. If they decide, sometimes we have to defend deeper. Not because we want it, because they are good. So at the end, they make a good process, academically processed. Bruno Fernandes have the composer to break the lines, to run.

1:04:33Gary Neville:And Bemov is an exceptional player. So that's why sometimes we have to defend. And the body language has to be right to do it. Well done, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, it's been a really good day for Manchester City. Maybe a bit of a reset. We heard something about that earlier in the training here for the first time in, I think, 10 years before a game and getting the players here earlier. Just a bit of a refresh, Izzy. And interesting to hear him talk about it wasn't really about tactics today. This was about commitment and energy and approach from his team. Yeah, and I think that was the basic fundamentals of the way they started the game.

1:05:08You looked at the back four with Kuchnov at right back, Gradiol, Diaz. You've got three Warriors in there. And I think Nico O 'Reilly embodied, you know, what the back four was all about. they were aggressive they were hard hitting and i think they set a precedent but i think the balance is can you do that and still play your football and they did that today um it looked much more like they earned the right to win the game today and earn the right to play and i think that's a bit more maybe what's a slight change of what's been city over the past six months or so where they probably haven't earned the right to play their their way of football and they've been disconnected at times so i thought they went it almost looked like in city terms back to basics today and I thought they were physically very dominant it's great to hear you got one of the world's greatest managers ever and he's talking about adapting he adapts his teams he's on about the Napoli game coming up he'd have to change that so he's happy to adapt hmm loaded and that's the goalkeeper we knew that

1:06:02Gary Neville:Donnarumma was available yes summer other clubs might have well we're linked with him and might have gone and got him are you happy with this business my Yeah, he's a top goalkeeper, isn't he? I mean, that one was for the cameras. We know he's not the greatest on the ball, especially not Edison level, but the size of him, he demands his box, great shot stopper, good organisation. He's got absolutely everything. What about that? The way he clears the ball in these danger areas like that. This is what you need. Harlan, you love him, don't you, Gary? Yeah. I just think when a goalkeeper, I mean, these are brilliant saves, but I think when the goalkeeper comes to punch, They've got to take everything with them.

1:06:41And he does. And what a lift that is to your team. When you're defending and your keeper does that, it gives you a huge lift. The size of it. Look at his arms, yeah. Yeah, he's six foot five. And look, he makes Peter Schmeichel look pretty small, doesn't he? Yeah, he's a great goalkeeper there. And also Peter, yeah.

1:07:01Gary Neville:I think a lot of people have been asking questions about Manchester City at the start of this season, losing back-to-back games as well. Do we have them as title contenders again? Are they going to push Liverpool, Arsenal? No, but obviously we'd have a better idea again next weekend. But the signs were definitely better for City. Again, Haaland and particularly Foden, Rodri getting back up to speed. But I still think there's a bit to go yet in terms of going... You know, when you're sitting there going, no, the City are back to their best. I still think there's a bit to go yet. But the signs were better and the momentum and the feel-good factor will be certainly backing the group for a big game next week.

1:07:34Gary Neville:Yeah, it's Arsenal next week. We'll know a lot more after that, won't we? Yeah. I totally agree with Roy. I think it's step by step. I don't think they... They'll label themselves as title contenders right now, but I think if they put a string of games together where they're dominant in the way they were today, I think they'll probably start looking towards the top of the league. But for now, I still think they've got a lot of work to do. But Haaland, back to his treble levels. He was so good today, wasn't he? Or better than Pepton. Even Pepton, the interviewer, I said before the game, there was something about him, his energy, he was up for it.

1:08:00From the first minute we had that chance, he just looks aggressive. When he's like that, he's unstoppable. I think he's going to be top goalscorer this season. And City to finish above United?

1:08:13Gary Neville:More than likely. 29 points was a gap last season. Do you see that shrinking? I'm not sure. I don't know what's going to happen with United. That's the problem, I mean, I think we've seen this before, haven't we, at this stage of the season where there's a sort of a result start to go against them. I'm hopeful in the next few weeks that they can turn it around and start to win football matches for City. and with everybody else. I don't quite think they're there. There's still sort of vulnerabilities where there weren't before. I think they won four leagues on the bounce and then it was as if last year it was just too much for them.

1:08:44Gary Neville:They'd had that sort of come to the end of the road. The team were coming to the end of the road. Maybe they were starting to be a little bit unprofessional and sort of do things differently and take things for granted. But it seemed like today that there was sort of, there was definitely a renewed vigour. I thought that probably the best I've seen Docku in terms of his decision-making. I thought Foden, it was good to see Foden playing at his best. a lot of question marks over him in the last 12 months and so that was a good start for him. Good signs today for Manchester City. Gary, thank you for joining us.

1:09:10Gary Neville:Micah, thank you. Izzy, Roy, thank you very much for your company. And, yeah, big games next weekend. That we are bringing you live. Manchester United on the Saturday night football against Chelsea. Another key game comes around quickly for them. Next Saturday at five. Brentford in action again next Saturday night in another London derby. They go to Fulham, short trip for them. And then Super Sunday sees Bournemouth, who have had a really good start, take on Newcastle. Sunderland up against Aston Villa, also with a two o 'clock kick-off. Villa looking for their first goals of the season. Will they come at the Stadium of Light?

1:09:48Gary Neville:And we see Arsenal taking on Manchester City, and we very much look forward to that as well. Great result today for Manchester City in the derby, thanks to hitman Harland and a knockout performance from his City teammates. That one was for Ricky Hatton. Bye from us.

1:10:13Gary Neville:Thanks for listening to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast. Don't forget to hit follow so you don't miss an episode.