Haaland scores controversial winner for Manchester City after Foden sees red

24:57It directly impacts on his action in the game.

24:59Gary Neville:Of course, because he's trying to multitask. He's got Halle behind him, one of the greatest goal scorers ever. He's got somebody two yards from him we think he's going to score a goal. So he will be distracted. He isn't in fair play. And basically United have been punished for holding a good line. Because you have to praise teams as well who play the other. And their line is good. He is offside. And he goes to play the ball. So United are getting punished for actually good defending. That's why you've got a defender there in a big moment. That's why he's frustrated. It's OK for us sitting in the studio going, oh well, these things, that's the laws of the game.

25:29Gary Neville:But he's been in a battle there. And United have held a really good line, which is very difficult to do and they're getting punished for it. United are getting punished for actually some really good defending there. That's it. Put your nail on the edge. I mean, you've said it more. Even he said it. If you've got one player there and one player in front, of course it's going to affect your decision if you're not a five position. It's simple as that. Look, it's a really controversial way in which to lose a game. but from Manchester City's point of view they will argue that they did enough to win it without having to have the benefit of refereeing decisions yeah of course and you know what when I'm down to 10 men you're thinking it's going to be an onslaught maybe the last half an hour for City but City seemed to go stronger the last half an hour and what do you think caused that where did that come from I think it was just smarter I think there was a bit more control about it and I think psychologically sometimes when your team goes down to 10 men it does happen to teams we've seen it many times before you think teams are going to be it's not going to be easier because City are a very good team but you're going to have more options to score and we've seen the stats there United's stats in terms of shots on target even possession wasn't that great so I just thought that subconsciously thought well this is if we just go through the motion surely we'll do City and as I said whatever the last 20-25 minutes City seemed to get stronger and then Dio when he came on he definitely gave him something he was tenacious he was winning free kicks He looked like a goal threat.

27:02Gary Neville:And maybe that gave the other players a lift. And I know the goalkeeper made a big save at the end. But Gahey and defensively, Man City were absolutely outstanding. But for United, I think it's a huge setback for them. I think it's a huge setback for them. As much as the lift it is for Man City winning the big game, and obviously the way they've won it for United, I think a big setback. A big setback for Manchester United. So let's hear from their head coach. Michael Carrick is with Patrick Davison. Were Michael confused or was it a stronger emotion? Nah, confused, not even confused I mean we put things in place in the game now To help to lay referees' decisions To help how many screens, how many offices How many people are in an office somewhere to make a decision It's more worrying about if that's the interpretation of the game of football If we've got people in place that are meant to understand the game and make decisions If that's the interpretation of not interfering with a player Not having an impact on an attack throwing your body at it with an inch or two of the ball without defending next to him who has to react to that.

28:05It's really worrying for me if that's how that's interpreted. It's a staggering decision for him, I have to say. I couldn't understand it once I'd seen it and then the explanation almost makes it worse. Sorry, what explanation? Well, there's the explanation about it not in a funeral play. Incredible. I listened to an interview with Mikel Arteta obviously something slightly different last night saying decisions like these change seasons how big it feels to you in this moment No, it's not going to change it's a major impact on the game today it was a massive game there's a long season ahead we've got to get back to winning football matches that's on us but that decision wasn't on us today How big a moment is that?

28:55I guess you'd have expected more from your team against 10, but perhaps if it's 0-0, you're able to play with a bit more poise and calm. Yeah, of course, you know, it's up to us to then create and score after that. Of course it is. We had moments. Of course, it's not easy, but yeah, it's up to us to do that. But we've seen it before, you know, big moments in big games like that have a huge impact. And obviously it did today. Going back then, were you actually better today, 11 against 11? I thought we started the second off pretty well, to be honest, so not necessarily, no. OK, what did you like in the early part of the match?

29:37Yeah, it feels a long time ago now, I think. We did a lot of things well, to be honest, and It looked like we were growing into the game and looked dangerous. It's kind of, at this moment in time, it's irrelevant, really. We'll take it for the game and we'll move on and we'll learn from it. But we're not moving on lightly. You know, we've got to get back to winning, you know, as a team. So, as I said, that's on us. But the game itself, the way it pans out, that's not. I know you said you liked that phase in the early part of the second half, but generally against 10, what could you have done to create more?

30:17Yeah, we could have created more. We could have. Yeah. How? Oh, well, that's an answer for us, but we could have, yeah. How important is a calm reaction to this, Michael? It feels like for years now, Man United fans have had false storms and they had a great spell under you so far. but it just does feel like a bit of anxiety is growing in parts of the fan base. How do you manage that? That's our second defeat now at home. So, I don't even know what it is, 13, 14 games or so. We're a good team, so we'll get back to winning ways. Thank you. Cheers. Thanks, Michael. Thank you. It is only the second league defeat at home in the Premier League under Michael Carrick after the one against Leeds in April.

31:01So it has been, and the rest of them have been victories. It's been a really good home form under him. Today they will feel aggrieved, to put it mildly, Roy. There's two ways that they can react to that. They can either go into their shell and lean into self-pity, if you like, or they can use it as fuel. Yeah.

31:21Gary Neville:No, they'll look to bunks back and they've got a busy schedule coming up. Some cup games, obviously they're back in the Champions League, so they'll be busy from that side of it. No, I think there'll be a reaction from, again, And I think there's lots of positive at United since Carrick got the job, particularly going forward and the goal-scoring record. Clearly, when he's getting the decision, everyone's going to talk about off-conference. The goal is the big moment. But he'd still be frustrated with the fact they've not tested the goalkeeper enough for City with them being down to 10 men. You're on a boat.

31:56Gary Neville:It's only two defeats, but they're big defeats. You'd want to be losing home to Man City and Leeds. I mean, look, as you said, they didn't test the goalkeeper enough when City were down to 10 men. But there were moments in there. Rashford hit the post. Yeah, but you always have moments. And with the United attacking players, they will create moments. And these are opportunities here. And on another day, of course, you've hit the post twice. The keeper makes a great save at the end. You'd expect that over the course of 90-odd minutes with Man United, of course. But that's still not enough. You know, they're praising the goalkeeper and makes a big save.

32:27Gary Neville:But he's not made five, six, seven saves. That's it from a bono. They're always going to get one or two chances towards the end. Big, big opportunity. Even United, I'm here going, listen, they'll probably still get one or two chances as poor as they've been going forward. And he may actually have been offside in that instance anyway. But the point is, he makes a big save against him. And as you said, there are moments from Manchester United. But it's still not enough. We were chatting at half-time when we were saying, for City, City would probably take a draw now. So even for United, even if they're not at their very best, like I mentioned earlier with Coventry but still try and take something out of the game still get a clean sheet yourself even walk off today and go disappointed with the draw but don't be losing the game but in fairness to them the goal against them that's why they're so frustrated is they've been punished for defending really well and holding a really good offside line and that's the hard bit but there is part of the game he'll have to sit down with his staff and also going forward it wasn't good enough and we can talk all about what they've done last season it's a new season and they've started poorly and they've got to fix these issues, him and his staff, particularly defensively.

33:32Gary Neville:The great example at the moment, of course, is Arsenal because they're so good. The chances they give up and obviously the clean sheets they have, that's got to be their aim. And as long as they keep giving up goals, they suffered today, I don't know about the previous games, it's going to hold you back. You can be brilliant all you want going forward, but if you're giving up one or two goals a game, even as good as they are going forward, it is going to be a constant problem for you. Of course it is. Mike, if you're going into training next week, obviously they will still at this moment be feeling the sting of the way in which the goal was scored against them and the fact that that goal was allowed.

34:07But when you go in next week, what will they be expecting to focus on in terms of that performance, in terms of what they'll be working on? Well, I think actually the sending off changed the game. Coming to the game today, I think the tactics for United were go in that sort of mid-block and then try to catch City out on the counter-attack. That didn't happen. They had to be the team that was in the presidency. And then they didn't know what to do. I watched them against Sabah in the Champions League. And the game got stretched. And it was almost like you-go-I-go basketball game. They are better when they're in a low block and then they can transition.

34:41And for some, Carrick has to try and mould defensive and attack. They've got really good players in attack. But like I said beforehand, when they don't play with Cesc up front and Cunha's going here, there and everywhere, that don't really have an out ball. Then you're relying on Rashford's pace. Then you're relying on genius from Fernandes to do something. It all looked a little bit disjointed. If you were going to go against Man City and have 10 men, Man City were the better team on the ball. How can you go away from that as a player, as a manager? Be satisfied by that. Yes, we'll be talking about the incident with a goal.

35:14Yes, it didn't go for them today. But the bigger picture for United, is that what they can deliver? against City with 10 men.

35:25Gary Neville:If City, football, listen, after the game, if you're going to win a derby game and you don't have 10 men, you win one, and you should be walking off and going, we're drained with how we got away with it, or the keeper made five, six great saves. It wasn't that type of feel to the game. It was, again, about moments for United when they've had 10 men. Rashford free kick. Mano, outside the box, okay, the one with Beaumont at the end, he might have been marching it offside. If you want to be competing towards the top, and I've always said with United, We've gone back and forth. And I've said Carrick's doing a really good job for now, etc., etc.

35:56I think he's a perfect guy. But at some stage, if you want to go to that next level, you need to start putting in performance and not just putting your foot in. Tactically, how can you break down a side? And with United, it seems as though it's just a moment of genius that gets them through week after week. And if they want to be challenging, they need to do better than that. Manchester United on the wrong end of that 1-0 scoreline. But for Manchester City, it's been a perfect start to this Premier League season. We'll hear from Enzo Mareska next.

37:12I'm Mike Atherton. I'm Nasser Hussain. Follow Sky Sports Cricket or get your podcast the usual way, However you get them, we will be there. Welcome back to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast. It's time to get more analysis of today's match and head back to the studio. Big win for Enzo Moreska. His first game in charge of Manchester City in a Manchester derby. They've won it by a goal to nil. Lots to talk about from this game and Enzo Moreska has been talking to Patrick Davison. Well Enzo, you did say embrace the chaos. Is that exactly what your team did today? What the chaos? Yeah, I think with the red card, change a little bit the plan of the game.

38:02But credit to the players because the effort, the spirit, the spirit togetherness has been brilliant. It feels a million years ago, but just tell us about that plan from the start. It looked like Elliot Anderson on his own as a six and then two high eights. What were you trying to do? And then how much is that all blown out of the water by the fact you go down to 10 men? In the moment that we go with 10 players, change, change all the plan. At the beginning, the idea was to attack a little bit, to create an overload in the middle against their two midfielder. But again, after, I don't know which minute it was.

38:3523, wasn't it? Yeah, after 20, 25 minutes, change completely the game. Yeah. Changed fairly or not for you? What did you think of the red card? Can be. Can be a red card. But I think in the same action, can be a red card for Bruno. In the same action. So anyway, it's what it is. Red card for us. We won, but I think in the same action, can be also a red card for them. Fine. So you're OK with Phil Foden getting sent off, but it has to go for both players? Yes. Yeah. OK. What did you make of the reaction then from your players? It almost felt like you were better straight away with 10 men, bizarrely.

39:14Yeah, I think it changed the plan for us, but it changed also the plan for them. They are a fantastic team. They are unbelievable in transition. So in the moment that we were with 10 players, we didn't give them any transition because they were with the ball. So I think it changed for us, but also changed for them a little bit. But again, I think the tactical plan can be on one side. I think the main thing today has been, again, the effort from the players that has been outstanding. Do you think it's a huge step for this team to come through a test like that? Like you say, put tactics to one side emotionally in terms of bringing them together.

39:54Anyway, it's already in a normal situation when you are able to win a game with 10 players. It's fantastic. Then if this game is the derby, it's even better. So it's a nice feeling, yeah. A big moment for you personally as well to win a game like this? You're following such a great manager. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's a great moment. Last year here with Chelsea, we were down 10 players after three minutes. Oh, yeah. Today after 25, hopefully the next time will be 11 v 11. So the team talk next time is done already. Stay on the pitch, guys. We're going to prepare already a solution with 10 players.

40:29What did you make of your goal, Enzo? Was it slightly fortunate? that it looks to have been offside, to be honest. Anyway, the fourth official said to me immediately that Erling was onside. They were just checking the entire action, but I think it was completely clear that it was not offside. I saw that actually, you speaking to the fourth. It looked like you knew that it was a goal before the rest of the stadium. Yeah, because I asked the fourth official, and he was just telling me that they checked, and it was clear, and it was goal. So it's football. It's also emotion for me in the moment that he said that, I was celebrating the goal.

41:11Although another aspect of that goal, Enzo Fernandes looks to play the ball, doesn't he? So maybe a bit of luck there. Yeah, Enzo Fernandes was unbelievable. Played a fantastic game. And again, it's a nice win. Last word for your goalkeeper. That save at the end. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. That was Gijo. We need Gijo for that. That's why he's here. that's why in the past the club decided to buy him because he's a fantastic keeper. Well done today. Thank you. That was Enzo Maresca. Gary Neville has joined us from the gantry. Sting starting to go out of it a little bit or are you still frustrated by that result for Manchester United?

41:51Gary Neville:No, not really. I mean frustrated from a point of view they didn't play well Manchester United. It's a bad one, the decision that goes against them for the goal. We got there in the end. There's no way that Lissandro Martins has not been impacted by Enzo Fernandes being there. So I think that, and Larmans probably as well, because he's sort of waiting as well. So that whole thing, I think, that we'll see in the next 24 hours that they'll apologise. And it's a bad one in the sense of a decision. But yeah, it was a strange game, wasn't it? Impacted enormously by the two refereeing decisions. The red card, which obviously changed the whole dynamic of the game.

42:25Gary Neville:Manchester United thought they could carry on playing the same against 10 than they were against 11. The problem is when City were playing with 11, Enzo Fernandes was jumping out, leaving loads of space behind him. Obviously, it was 10. They just played deeper and compact. Manchester United just didn't shift the ball quickly enough and were so complacent in that 20 minutes before half-time. It allowed City to get a footing in the game. Enzo Morescu must be really proud because his players stood up today. Physically and mentally, they stood up and really showed for him. He talked a lot about the mentality in that interview and alluded to the fact that the way his players reacted in that game was so important.

43:00How much of a factor do you think that was, Micah? Yeah, I think Manchester derby and players coming into the game and they want to go four out of four. I think coming into this sort of game, you're going to be up for it, right? The whole thing about Pep and a new manager, it's great for Moresco to have this in terms of with ten men and then still being able to perform at this sort of level but not in the way that maybe we'd have seen Man City previously. Just grit, determination and having that heart and spirit to come to Old Trafford and get the win. I think that's more important for these players going forward now.

43:38The other big moment that we haven't looked at quite as much as the goal was the red card, which, as you say, was a turning point in the way that the game went. It involves Phil Foden and Bruno Fernandes. What we'll see when we get the close-up on this is Fernandes barges in to Phil Foden.

43:59Gary Neville:Oh, yeah. Kicks him when he's on the ground, and then Phil Foden raises his legs. We all know what's happened here. We've all been in this type of situation where the person who's wronged initially reacts and they end up getting the punishment. So Bruno Fernandes, the reason he gets away with that, and I think he'll sort of what would be, I thought it was a yellow, is that under the guise that he stood up and the ball's on the ground, we see it when goalkeepers sometimes spill a ball a little bit, and we see forwards come in and kick. You think Bruno Fernandes is going for the ball? No, he's not.

44:25Gary Neville:Under the guise that, oh, I'm trying to get to the ball, under that guise, it's wrong, you sort of say, you get away with those, don't you? Because referees sometimes see that, you see that four or five times maybe a month, this type of thing where a player's trying to do that. And then what you don't see is, you normally see when a player kicks out from on the floor into someone's stomach, or like I mentioned David Beckham in 98, it's so soft that you get reds for those. It doesn't make it right, but just that I can see the logic and thinking historically behind football decisions that means that when Bruno Fernandes he's kicking through Phil Ford and his arm's going for the ball, but he was there.

45:00Gary Neville:I know he's wrong because he was kicking him, but yeah, that's why I think they've got to the decisions they did. They should have booked Bruno Fernandes. I said that straight away. How he wasn't booked, I don't know. What about Fernandes' reaction? Bruno, it's embarrassing. Look, to be fair, Micah, we can sit here all day long and debate this. I played in a dressing room for 15, 20 years. Roy might not agree with it or not, but we used to say if a player got kicked in the box, go down and win a penalty, and if someone taps you, you know, take it. Steve Martin did exactly the same to me here in the derby where I just moved my head forward and rightly he just reacted and I got a red card.

45:32Gary Neville:You do try and get players sent off. I know that's not right, but that is what happens in the game. We're never going to change that. We might not like it. We might not like it. Should Phil Foden have done that then? I don't think we'd try to get players sent off. I don't agree with that. You try and might win decisions, but you wouldn't dream of trying to get a player sent off. But should Phil Foden have done that then when Bruno Fernandes kicked him? What do you mean? should he have kicked out? Yeah. Should Phil Foden have reacted the way that Bruno Fernandes did? No, what I would say is... In order to get Bruno Fernandes...

46:02Gary Neville:What I would say is, we've all been in these types of positions. Phil Foden tonight will go home and think, I won't do that again. So that tells you that probably he's given the referee a decision to make. I'm not saying it's right, but when you kick someone in the stomach, I don't think... David Beckham's the softest red card of all time. He just goes like on the ground. Against Diego Simeone. Not the same thing is... Against Diego Simeone. It's classed as violent conduct, isn't it? Yeah. It's not violent conduct, is it? That's strange, but he's getting... You can be sent off for being silly and daft or whatever, but to class that as violent conduct, I certainly don't agree with this.

46:35And like you said, it's maybe the wrong description of it, but it is under the letter of the law. If we called it something different, it would be there. But look, in terms of Manchester City's performance, they're not there yet, Micah, but this will go a long way to sort of reinforcing their belief that they can get there? I think it's more just about confidence. Under Pep, there was, I would say, more control. I think they want to get the ball wider now. Obviously, having a new midfield, it's completely different. You know, the standards that Man City have set over the last 10 years under Pep, it's ridiculous.

47:11People need to forget that because there's a new coach with a new style of doing things. Yes, they've got some good players. I still feel in the midfield, I'm a little bit worried. I think the game today helped Man City because they had to drop a little bit and Anderson could jump at the right times and Enzo could jump at the right times. But in terms of going forward, I still feel as though they need to build that chemistry.

47:34Gary Neville:Enzo will end up taking Cherky's spot, I think, eventually. He will. He does, to be fair, he's a brilliant player but he lacks a bit of positional discipline. I always liken him a little bit when Manchester United signed Juan Sebastian Varon and Scolese and Roy, or Roy and Nicky, He had amazing sort of like understanding of each other's games. And then once Bastian Verón came in, a South American player, and he was very much sort of like he would run across you and he would go and get the ball. And he's a brilliant player, fantastic. But it just upsets the dynamic sometimes of sort of the patterns of what Manchester City do.

48:06Gary Neville:So it's a bit, I liken it to that when I see it. And I think he will end up moving forward into Cherokee's spot. But that's quite interesting because Maresco was asked, and actually it was an interview in which he was talking about Cherokee and about maybe his discipline. He said, when the players got to a certain point on the pitch, are they allowed a little bit of freedom? And he was like, no, absolutely no freedom. I want them to do what I want them to do. And yet today, even pre-match, you could understand it maybe if you said it post-match, he was like, I want them to embrace the chaos. I want them to be able to...

48:37So there's a middle ground there.

48:39Gary Neville:There'll always be dynamics going on in the football team, particularly when there's a new manager, new players come into the club. But while that's going on, what you need to be doing while you're trying to fix these little issues, or his win. So they've had it in terms of winning football matches. That gives that manager then a little bit of breeding space, a bit of belief. You see him down the sideline at the end of the game and that all helps the team grow. So we're looking at United defensively and when you're not getting results, you're restless. Michael Karras got interviewed by the interview there and he's going, yeah, the fans are restless.

49:14Gary Neville:But if you're winning and you're not quite at it, but you're winning, no one's restless because you're winning games. So you can sort the problems out or the problems don't seem as big when you win a football. And City, in terms of results, have had a brilliant start to the season, particularly with all the worry about it. Pep and Rodri and all these guys, it's new midfield, the dynamics have changed. And what they showed today, and if you're going to win big football matches, whatever quality you bring to the football pitch, you've got to bring personality and character. And City had that today.

49:43Gary Neville:Even though we don't have the 10 men, we could all work tactics or whatever. It stuck their chest out. and what they showed particularly in the second half where you're thinking the last half an hour was going to be tight it's going to be tough they grew and they seemed to get fitter and stronger and that's why I'll take my hat off to them today and when you're looking at United and again we're talking about playing for a big club characters, personalities obviously you've got talent and we saw that with City today while they're trying to fix these little problems with dynamics of your team that will fall into place but in the meantime when you're winning football matches happy days and we're in a period whereby Maresca, Iriola, Alonso Odeserbi, Michael Carrico, trying to build trust in us.

50:20Gary Neville:We're watching them and thinking, OK, you're building trust. Klopp's gone. All these great managers that have been at these clubs in the last seven or eight, nine, ten years have gone. And that journey back tonight from Morescu, it's only 20 minutes, obviously, across Manchester, although they might do a couple of laps. That's assuming that he's going back to the FA Cup tonight. He'll have built some trust today with his players, that they've come through a really difficult moment together and they'll be so much stronger. I'm not saying that's going to get them to the end of the season, but they'll be so much stronger tonight in terms of their trust and their belief in each other and their confidence and everything about them.

50:53Gary Neville:And they have stood up today. They stood up without the ball by basically being in front of everything, but on the ball as well. The way in which NDI and Semenyo and Howell, they all took the ball, Fernandes, Anderson, they were all brave on the ball. So they've really demonstrated what you would want in a football team, as Roy says, that determination in difficult moments to stand up. They stood up. They showed a bit of courage today. Again, that's wanting the ball. You're away from home, you're down to 10 men, and a player stuck their chest up. Yeah, of course, a lot of luck with the goal, of course.

51:23Gary Neville:But courage is a big, big part of being a top footballer. Wanting the ball in tight situations, away from home, down to 10 men. They didn't shy away from that challenge. Speaking of the goal, we will look again at the goal. We'll get Gary's thoughts on the offside. Don't worry, Michael, we won't ask you again about it. Manchester City, though, with all three points, a win for Enzo Mareska in his first Manchester derby.

51:59Evening, buyer's remorse. Buy a new car? I'll be moving in. Let's get started. Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana. You what? Yeah, great price.

52:10Gary Neville:I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no... No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyer's rejoice. I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it. Buyer's rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com.

52:31You can get free Premier League, EFL, WSL, and Scottish Premiership highlights through the Sky Sports app. There are also exclusive videos, live scores, our 24-7 transfer centre and the very latest news. It's free and you don't need to be a Sky customer to use it. Just head to your app store and search for Sky Sports. Now let's get more reaction to today's game on the Sky Sports Premier League podcast. Right, let's take a look back at that goal once again. just run through some of the decisions that the referee and the video assistant referee are making in this game. So the cross comes in. Enzo Fernandes is in an offside position.

53:16It takes a deflection off Patrick Dorgue. That's not relevant at this stage because it's not deemed a deliberate attempt to play the ball under the laws of the game. Enzo Fernandes is in an offside position. Erling Haaland isn't. What they have told us, that's the Haaland offside decision. What they have told us is that, and what they have put out on their social media, Pro Ref and Match Centre, is that because Enzo Fernandes did not touch the ball, this is not offside. His offside position does not become an offside offence because he doesn't touch the ball.

53:49Gary Neville:So they've doubled down, basically. That is what they're saying. That is what their position on all of this is. Now, this has happened before. Bruno Fernandes scored a goal for Manchester United at Old Trafford. It was scored by Bruno Fernandes. Marcus Rashford was involved in that goal. And again, Marcus Rashford here does not touch the ball in the build-up to this game. And this goal, under these circumstances, is allowed, is not overturned. This goal is allowed because Marcus Rashford does not touch the ball. So, Gary, you asked, in the aftermath of this, Howard Webb, what his thoughts were on this decision to allow this goal to stand.

54:36Gary Neville:Yeah, the other big decision, or a big controversy in the last few weeks was the Manchester derby. The offside goal, not offside goal, the one that Bruno Fernandes scored when Rashford obviously sort of left the ball. What was your post-match analysis with the referee and on-field officials of that? and how do you see that now if that happened again tonight in this match? Yeah, I think it was the most talked about situation in the Premier League so far this year. An offside player who doesn't touch the ball, the question then becomes, does he interfere with the opponents? And over time, the laws of the game have moved in a direction where to be penalised for being in an offside position without touching the ball, you have to do one of four quite specific things.

55:14The aim was to be consistent in the application. Rashford doesn't exactly do those four things, but you could make an argument that he does. there's definitely an interpretation needed there's some element of subjectivity about it on the day the officials felt that he didn't interfere as per the way it's defined in the law that was supportable I think the game has told us that there's an expectation that that situation should have led to an offside we're here to serve the game we're here to listen to the game I think if that exact circumstance happens again you'd probably see a different outcome now based on all of what we've taken on board since then but on the day it was a judgement that was made And based on the interpretation that was made on the field by the officials, it was supportable.

55:54But I think the game tells us it was probably expected to be offside. So the key quote there from Howard Webb is that if this exact circumstance happens again, the goal would likely not be given. It wasn't the exact circumstance, but the question is the same as to whether if a player doesn't touch the ball, are they then committing an offside offence?

56:14Gary Neville:As a defender, Kelly, I just hate the actual thing full stop. we can't operate from there we have to operate is that not the rule? let's go back to the line we can't just throw it all up in the air that goal that Bruno Fernandes scores in the derby in January 23 is an absolute joke City have held the line they've practised for the previous 3, 4, 5, 6 years under Pep Guardiola to hold the line to play offside he's gone towards the ball Marcus Rashford if you're telling me that he's not interfering with play he steps away from it at the very last second And that, to be fair, is what Howard Webb is broadly, while still protecting his referees.

56:52Gary Neville:Howard Webb says there that the game has told us they don't like this. So the reason we don't like the one today is the same reason we don't like that one back in the day. But that's the point. The point is that your issue with this goal being allowed was agreed with by Howard Webb, and that point was agreed with by Howard Webb. And then you get a situation like this. It doesn't look exactly the same, but it is a similar decision that's reached in the fact that the player is in an offside position. I still think Carlin's offside. Well, he's not by the semi-automated offside rules. Don't start throwing red herrings in here.

57:25The question we're talking about is, is Fernandes committing an offside offence? He's in an offside position. Is it an offence if he doesn't close the ball? And he also, Howard Webb, references the four points that we're looking at when we're looking at whether or not an offside offence is committed. We all think it's a goal.

57:42Gary Neville:They'll apologise tomorrow. But generally... We all think it's not a goal. We all think it's not a goal. And back in the day, the Marcus Rashford-Bruno Fernandes one is not a goal either. I think all of us hate it as football players. Because part of what you do during the week is practice to keep your line and hold your line and play people offside. And it is part of the game. So you could argue the first one that is impacting the line. No, number three and four, Kelly. We've looked at it four or five times now. Number three and four are emphatic. So I don't think we need to look at the end. What I would say is...

58:11Gary Neville:It was only because Howard Webb referenced them. I know, but McKellie... You've been on the gantry. I've seen it about seven times. I know. It's been looked at. I think we don't need to keep going back over it. What I would say is, I think we, or whoever it is that's decided now not to show the automated offside straightaway, a lot of people, including me, who have got this little screen upstairs, are still thinking Haaland was offside for the first minute and a half. So we're thinking, the assistant referee has not put his flag up for Enzo Fernandez. He's put it up for Haaland, right? We all think Haaland's offside because he looks like he is offside.

58:40Gary Neville:and then we've stopped putting lines on things. We've stopped showing the fans at home things. FIFA started doing that during the World Cup. It's absolutely ridiculous. That's a communications issue. And obviously if you're inside the ground, particularly here at Old Trafford, which is one of the grounds that doesn't have a big screen. We should freeze it there now. We should have lines drawn on it. All we're getting is this stupid automated vision where you can't see anything. We used to get lines across the pitch which you could tell that it was offside or not. We've stopped showing the fans.

59:06Gary Neville:The technology shows that it's offside. We've stopped showing the fans at home through FIFA Pro, whether it's through the ref situation or whether it's through FIFA, we've stopped showing the fans at home offside properly. And that's a big problem. So let's show that Haaland's offside to start with. Then we're moving into the second phase. We didn't know that Haaland wasn't offside for about a minute and a half, two minutes. This is rubbish. This is a waste of time, they're showing the fans that and me. But it's more accurate than the previous one. I know, but it's just rubbish. But why is it rubbish?

59:34Why is that not helpful?

59:35Gary Neville:I just don't think, well, he didn't come in for two minutes. Well, that's a different thing. Why is this not helpful? I just think, to me, it was better when they were actually doing the lines on before. And you could see the real players. I don't think you could even see Dogu's foot. You can't even see Dogu's foot there. You can't even see Dogu's foot where the edge of it is. But that's a different point because this has come in now and this is the way in which offside is and isn't decided in terms of this is the up-to-date way of drawing lines. I get it, but I've not liked it when FIFA did it in the World Cup.

1:00:05Gary Neville:I don't like it now. It's not as, I don't believe, as transparent as it was before. It feels to me something like, wait two or three minutes to show a proper offside. Just let's show the offside straight away. And I take your point, but that's slightly different from what we're looking at. No, we're not looking at it. We've covered it, Kelly, previously. We all think it's not a goal. They will apologise tomorrow. The thing is, Your Honourable, we all love entertaining, obviously a good attacking player, but the lads obviously were defenders. and players do work hard defensively to hold a high line or to defend properly like United did there and then to be punished for that.

1:00:42Gary Neville:Obviously, that's hard to take, isn't it? And the idea of not interfering with play, once a player is stood in front of the line of the goalkeeper there, the goalkeeper is just in this position because you think, is Enzo going to kick it? So the goalkeeper's impacted. Forget Lissandro Martez for one second. The goalkeeper's impacted 100 % to start with. I'm not saying he would have saved it. It's a great finish by Haaland. But watch Lahmans. Lahmans has to be impacted by Enzo Fernandes going to head it. He has to be impacted. Look at him. He sort of goes to the first header. Watch Lahmans. Lahmans goes to save an Enzo Fernandes header.

1:01:15Gary Neville:Watch him. His arms come up. Watch. There. And then he has to put his arms down, and then his arms could have come up again. So that has not been mentioned yet. The goalkeeper is massively affected by this, let alone Lissandro Martinez. I tried to mention that, but you made me get rid of the graphic. You won't let us read. But we're still going back to the rules, which we've seen 14 times in the last hour. But you're referring to the rules. That's why we're looking at them. Because that one, so that you could potentially argue a line of vision. You could potentially argue the fact that it's impacting Lissandro Martinez and Larmans in the Manchester United goal.

1:01:51And you can definitely reference probably the most pertinent one, which is a deliberate attempt to play the ball.

1:01:55Gary Neville:Kelly, it's a shocker for PGMOL or Ref Pro? Ref Pro. Ref Pro, it's a shocker for them. Sometimes we say there was a Liverpool-Tottenham one, wasn't there, a few years ago, where they got the mistake. That was a shocker. This is a really, really bad one in a big match. Hey, we've got another graphic. VAR checked the referee's call of no goal for offside, determined that Haaland was in an onside position, recommended the goal was awarded, and then VAR also deemed, and I think that's fine, if you're going to do a semi-automated offside, onside. But where's this coming from? From PL Match Centre, where it says at the top.

1:02:26The VAR also deemed that while in an offside position, Fernandes didn't play the ball.

1:02:29Gary Neville:They need to delete it. They just need to delete it. They're digging themselves a bigger hole. They need to go quiet tonight, regroup, and tomorrow just... Sorry, we got it wrong. This is just digging yourself a bigger hole. They need to delete that one. We've all need to delete it. We've all seen it now.

1:02:46Some of us just deleted the whole Twitter account.

1:02:49Gary Neville:So have I. It's got dormant. Look, we've looked at the game. There are big controversial issues. There's lots of talking points around the red card. There's lots of talking points around the goal, regardless of how we look at it. What they will be focusing on, and we talked about this a little bit earlier before you came in, is what's going to happen now in training for Manchester United, what they will be looking at from this game, what the things that they can control are, what the things that they can work on are going to be going forward. I'd like to think that they're not concentrating and focusing at all on the refereeing decision, and they're focusing on the work that they need to do to improve for their performance.

1:03:23Gary Neville:because what you don't want to do is give football players excuses or anybody excuses. That's it. So they've got to go out there tomorrow whenever it is that they retrain it and start training again and start to think about what happens if we go down to 10 men again. You know, we can't just run out of ideas after a couple of minutes and be complacent and not shift the ball quickly. I think Michael Carrick maybe would reflect upon the fact that he could have made changes earlier. I think when you know for 20 minutes before half-time that it's not going your way with 11 men, I think Ben Chesco should have come on probably straight away to try and be a bit more of a sort of battering round up top because it's obvious it wasn't quite working.

1:03:57Gary Neville:I think he made the substitution eventually after 65 minutes, which only left Cescou 25 minutes. So I think things like that will be reflected upon, I'm sure, analysed. And that's what they have to concentrate on. Four games into the season, Roy, it's early to be making sweeping statements, but let's do it anyway. What are your takeaways from this game? I think it's been a poor start. Nordeau Boulogne, today was a setback. But I don't think the players will react properly. Obviously, they've got to get a cup game. I think during the week and I've got Fulham and games on paper you think are winnable.

1:04:26Gary Neville:No, there's certainly no need to panic but obviously the real challenge for Carrick and his staff is when he got the job permanently. People wanted a good start. He's not had that. No doubt there'll be pressure after today's game but I would say just keep their heads and I think United will just certainly have to improve at the back. I keep going back to that but in terms of going forward and there's a goal threat I think they'll be fine. Yeah, keep their heads, don't panic. What about from City's point of view? I mean, Roy said earlier what they're doing at the moment is fixing the small things that need to change while still keeping that 100 % record in the Premier League.

1:05:01But in terms of what they need to fix, are they working from a good base? I would say it's need to fix. I think it's almost replacing what's gone out the door. Rodri, Bernardo Silva. I feel as though the midfield that they've got, he likes the energy and that's the way he wants to go. They want to be a little bit more direct. They've got players who come off the bench, and Jai, who's really good. I still think they need to think about where Shirky's going to go. Gary made a good point about Enzo going to number 10, but then the whole conundrum of Foden. Do you put Foden on the right, or do you put Shirky on the right?

1:05:38Shirky does a lot of his good work on the right and then coming into that middle position. So I think it's just more growing in confidence. I think the average age of Man City's team now is 25, which is a good thing. and just have that confidence to go on and show everyone what they can do. Everyone's going to compare them to the Pep teams. They're a different team, a bit more front-footed, want to move the ball a little bit quicker and they've got more energy in midfield. That's what I like about Man City now. Less control, but more energy. Use that to their advantage.

1:06:13Thanks for listening to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast. Make sure you give us a follow so you don't miss an episode. See you next time.

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