Inside Manchester United 

0:00It's been another troubled campaign for one of the world's most famous football clubs. But did we see some green shoots over the weekend? Well, over the next hour, we're going to go inside Manchester United to bring you all you need to know about what's going on at Old Trafford. We're joined by former player and assistant manager to Sir Alex Ferguson and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, Mike Phelan, as well as our chief correspondent, Kaveh Solakol. Stand by for some huge breaking news coming from Sir Jim Ratcliffe, which has emerged online in the last hour.

0:41We can't talk about Amrim without talking about that formation. Stand by to hear the pros and cons of his 3-4-3 system.

0:54Senna Lamans made his long-awaited debut against Sunderland, and he was not afraid to go long. We'll ask Mike Phelan and Louis Saha whether that could be a shift in tactics.

1:09More than£200 million was spent on the United's new front three. So was that the best area to strengthen?

1:21And United are tenth. We'll tell you where they should be in the table if you like your XG. And we asked the Opta supercomputer where they could finish.

1:34Right, there has been a significant development. Breaking news, our Chief Correspondent Carve Solacol has it. Well, Jim Ratcliffe, who is in control of the sporting side of Manchester United at the moment, he has given an interview to the Times and Sunday Times Business podcast. And the quotes regarding Manchester United have just been released. And he's backing Ruben Amorim. And he says that he would like Amorim to stay in charge for three years. He says Ruben needs to demonstrate he is a great coach over three years. And then when he was asked if Amorim is going to get three years, he said, yes, that is where I would be.

2:19Three years because football is not overnight. It's three years. You also look at Arteta at Arsenal. He had a miserable time over the last couple of years. I think there he's talking about the fact that in Arteta's first season, they did win the FA Cup, but Arsenal finished eighth in his second season. They finished eighth as well. Ratcliffe goes on to say we have to be patient. We have a long term plan. It isn't just flicking a light switch. You can't run a club like Manchester United on knee-jerk reactions to some journalist who goes off on one every week. And then he was asked, what would happen if the Glazers, who are the majority owners of Manchester United, said to him, you need to sack Rupert Amorim?

3:07Jim Ratcliffe said that is not going to happen. He also says that he believes that Manchester United, under his control, are going to become the most profitable club in the world. He defended the fact that he has made so many cuts at the club. We've seen around 400 people lose their jobs. There was the whole controversy about cancelling free lunches. He said costs were too high. There's some fantastic people at Manchester United, but also a level of mediocrity. It had become bloated. I got a lot of flack for the free lunches, but no one's ever given me a free lunch. He also talked about some of the reactions from United fans and also the media who cover the club.

3:58He said the press sometimes I don't understand. They want overnight success. They think it's a light switch. You can't run a club like Manchester United based on the knee-jerk reactions of some journalist who goes off on one every week. And he defended the Glazers. He said they get a bad reputation, but they're really nice people and they're really passionate. And on Ruben Amirim, he also said Ruben is a good guy. He's not had the best of seasons. He needs to demonstrate he's a great coach over three years. And he was asked, is he going to get three years? And he said, yes, that is where I would be.

4:37Right. I want to bring Mike Phelan in right there. Is he going to get three years? Yes, he is. What do you make of that? Well, it's an interesting comment to make in the general course of football now. You know, to get three years, you know, you're talking really winning things. You've got to win things to get the three years. We don't know behind the scenes what the conversations were when he came into the club because he came in with this idea of a different way of playing. They've obviously gone with that and they want to give him the opportunity to show that that works. Right now, there's been a lot of games gone by with not really any consistency in not just selection, but results.

5:18So I think it's an open-ended thing. In football, three years is a long time. One year is a long time in football. And right now, he's not sitting in the best seat right now, but it is the best seat to be in because you're a Manchester United manager and things can change. OK, well, our reporter Dan Kahn is at Old Trafford and joins us now. Dan, hearing these explosive quotes, does that chime with what you're hearing coming out of the club? Yeah, good evening, Mike. I mean, it's very similar, actually, to what I understand is really what's happening inside and outside those walls at Carrington.

5:54I mean, I've been speaking to people all around the club. I mean, one source has told me that, you know, United, everyone at the club has never been so united behind a manager in recent years, going through such a tough time. But the support for him is uniform around the club. Another source told me that in recent days, the likes of Jason Wilcox, the director of football, his canvassed opinion of the players as he normally would around the training ground, just having normal conversations, asking them what they think of the likes of Ruben Amarim. And again, the support has always been there for the manager.

6:26From the player side of things as well, I've spoke to a few people close to the squad. And although, understandably, there's probably a few frustrations from a few, the likes of Kobi Manu, Joshua Zergzi, who aren't playing and would be slightly disappointed from their lack of game time so far this season. The feeling I'm guessing from the player side is generally there is a really positive atmosphere at the training ground and also support for their manager and his philosophy going forward. Dan, we watch Amrim from afar at his news conferences. You're in the room. What do you make of the way that he deals with the media?

7:03I mean, the word that comes to mind is honest, Mike, and I'll let others decide whether that's a good or bad thing, but we always appreciate it in the media, don't we? I mean, I look at some of the quotes he's had in the last 12 months. Carvey talked about it there. You know, the quotes after the Grimsby defeat, you know, sometimes I want to quit managing Manchester United. But what he is so good at is articulating his points. Just a few days later, his news conference, just ahead of the next Premier League game. He was so effective in communicating his points. I think one thing about Ruben Amri, Mike, I would say is he clearly understands the pressure that comes with managing Manchester United, but also playing for the club.

7:40He knows it's an incredibly tough and heavy jersey to wear at this present time. But he's also talked about how he and his family are extremely happy in Manchester, and he really wants to make this work. The question will be long-term, can he make this team perform on a more consistent basis going forward? Well, Sir Jim Radcliffe seems to say that he will give him those three years, but for Euban Amrum, he needs to get this going right away here at Old Trafford. Mike Phelan, what do you make of him? Well, I think with this talk there about honesty, and I think that's true, and it's quite refreshing, honesty, in this game of football right now.

8:15but I always remember and I don't want to go back to the winning days but it crops up a little bit when you have managers at Manchester United who control the press the press conference is and this is definitely a Sir Alex one you control the press room it's not the other way around it's not the press control the press room so you get the message out that you need to get out and I think his honesty is there that's definite and he has got this effervescence about him. He does want to succeed and that's great. That's really good because managers' personality and managers' body language has got to come across as bigger than everything that goes on at Manchester United, particularly at that football club.

8:59So they've had some top, top managers, top managers, and some have succumbed to probably the honesty of it sometimes. So I think he's learning. I think he's definitely learning along the way what to say, what not to say he's pretty open great but ultimately you're the manager man united and you have to start to show not just results but consistency of performance i think that's really important how you want to do it whether that's in his formation that he fancies or whether he's going to be flexible further down the line those are the things that always crop up how are you consistently performing to win football matches and you're allowed to lose at manchester united The fans accept that, not too often, but they want consistency of performance so that they can really feel this is moving in the direction they want it to be in.

9:49I want to bring in a wizened old journo now, Carvey. Is he too honest? Is it damaging the brand? My personal opinion is that I do think he's far too honest. I think you can't be that honest when you are the manager of Manchester United. Manchester United are one of the biggest football clubs in the world. I would compare them to Barcelona or Real Madrid. How many times do you get Carlo Ancelotti sitting in a news conference and wearing his heart on his sleeve? How many times did Sir Alex Ferguson do that? You don't do that because everything you say is going to be headline news. Now, Ruben Amorim himself has made it clear that that's just the way he is and he is not going to change for anybody.

10:33Looking at some of Jim Ratcliffe's quotes today where he's having a little pop at the media. He's saying, I don't understand the press. They want overnight success. They think it's a light switch. You can't run a club like Man United based on the knee-jerk reactions of some journalist. I've got to defend journalists. What are journalists doing wrong? I think the difference now is that we've got different mediums now for information to move around. So, you know, whereas a press conference was a press conference, that was it. Before the game, maybe after the game, that's where it laid. Now, there's just so much going on.

11:12And like you say, social media, it creates this atmosphere of there's got to be a story. There's got to be more. There's got to be this. And ultimately, I'm sure the manager of Manchester United is now sitting in a press conference with different mediums around him. But as soon as he said something, it's out there. It's out there at different levels. But don't you think instead of having a go at the media, Jim Ratcliffe should be speaking to his head coach and saying, when you are speaking, don't give so much away. It's not the journalist's fault. No, no, no, I'm not suggesting it is. There's always a story at Man United, always.

11:51But I think the people in and around the manager should definitely be not influencing him, but certainly just having that, I agree, that little quiet word of don't go there today or this is what's going to come out. Just be careful. When you used to do the media when you were standing in for Sir Alex, what would he say to you? Nothing. He actually said nothing. He allowed me to go and take the media. And again, he just said, sit there, control the room. Make sure the message you want to put out is the message you want to put out. Don't go looking for anything else. Don't feed, you know. Don't feed the beast.

12:26The beast, because everything can explode from there. And I think honesty is one thing, and I really do like honesty in people. But we're living in a world now where honesty is not probably the first thing you need to be given. You need to give enough, but not too much. But Mike, wasn't it easier for Sir Alex because he won all the time? We can look at Amram's record. We did lose. Yeah, but you won everything. It's much harder to control a press room when you lose. He's week in, week out, surely. He will know that what he's doing is not good enough right now for Manchester. And for him, and for him as a manager, he will want better than that.

13:05So he needs to think about that. But again, the quotes from Sir Jim and what have you, there's a bit of defence in there. He's 15th of 17 teams since he joined Manchester United. I mean, that is not good enough for Manchester United, is it? No, no. The position of 15th is not good enough, but you look at where they are as far as points go to where they've got to get to at the top, that's more than, well, that's double near enough. Now, has a lot of this got to do with his refusal to change or to tweak his system? 3-4-3. Well, I would go on the side of flexibility. You know, we all have an idea of how we want to play and we hear this, I think I heard it the most when Louis van Gaal was at the football club, you know, my philosophy, my philosophy.

13:51and it's always what is it you know what does that look like and is it rigid or is it flexible philosophies can change they can change you know depending on where you are at the moment I think some of the statements and the honesty of the manager has put him into this position now where 3-4-3 is what he wants to do but in the game of football it's not always the case even now when you watch Man United is it always 3-4-3 yeah we've got three strikers but it may be five at the back the way they've been conceding at times and what have you. So 3-4-3 is an idea and it's a thing that he wants to get in place.

14:26But 3-4-3, you've got to dominate the game of football. You've got to dominate the match. And at the moment, Manchester United probably haven't got to that point where they are clear favourites. They are clear in dominance on the football field in that system. So, you know, there's a lot of work to be done with that system. So, yes, the breaking news this hour is that Sir Jim Radcliffe says Ruben Amrim needs three years. Stay with us on Inside Manchester United. Plenty more analysis and reaction and comments to come. See you in a moment.

15:18Time to welcome our next guest on Inside Manchester United, Chris Blackhurst, the former editor of The Independent, who authored the book The World's Biggest Cash Machine, an in-depth look at Manchester United's financial cloud. Nice to see you, Chris. Right. So Jim Radcliffe has said Amirim gets three more years. Do we believe him? Look, I don't know. I mean, it's all about results. And the results affect the financial performance. I mean, basically, if you're a winning team, people want to back you. People want to wear, the kids want to wear the shirt. Sponsors want to come. If they carry on losing, carry on being mid-table, not being in the Champions League, they're not getting as many matches.

16:00the broadcast revenues are down. The latest figures show that. But we're hearing all these record revenues. What's that then? On the commercial side, they're long-term deals that were already signed. But if they carry on in this pattern where they are now, it doesn't get any better. Then look, very simply, they're not on TV as much. And therefore, do you really want to sponsor them? Have things got better or worse under Sir Jim Radcliffe and Ineos? That's a good question. I mean, Jim Ratcliffe has put them on a much better financial footing. He's taken out costs, some of the costs, but some of those costs are really quite minor in the context of things.

16:42Arguably, they've got worse because that broadcasting revenue is a key figure. They're not in the Champions League. Manchester United have to be in the Champions League. That's where they belong. And if they're not there, it's worse. Therefore, it's worse. Carvey, we were told they were going to go bust just before Christmas if they weren't careful. Then they splashed£200 million on players. What are we supposed to believe? Well, I mean, look, if you look at Manchester United's latest accounts, their revenue was a record£667 million. That means they have the fourth highest revenue in world football.

17:20The only clubs who bring in more money than them are Real Madrid, Manchester City and PSG. And when it comes to transfers, you mentioned the figure£200 million. That is not£200 million that Manchester United put down on the table. Those transfer fees are paid in instalments. And also, Manchester United, like nearly every single club, have a transfer debt. And according to their accounts, their transfer debt is£447 million. Will the Glazers look at what's going on at Manchester United and go, do you know what, we need to take control of football again? I'm not sure if they want control of the football because the Glazers are backing it.

18:03They're away from all this now. I mean, actually, they're almost forgotten. It's all about Jim Ratcliffe. And that's quite clever by them. He's taking all the PR flack, all the hassle, everything. It's all Jim Ratcliffe. But on the other hand, if they think their investment is falling in value and the shares haven't been great, they're going to say, look, we need to knock this on the head and we need to knock it now. And actually, you know, regardless of what Jim Ratcliffe says, the Glazers control the club, not Jim Ratcliffe. Interestingly, what Jim Ratcliffe said in the interview with the Times podcast, he was asked about his relationship with the Glazers.

18:40And he said, look, I know they get a bad reputation, but I think they're very nice people. They're very passionate about Manchester United. And he said the way their relationship works is that Jim Ratcliffe and Ineos are on the ground. They are local in Manchester. They are hands-on the way they run the club. And the Glazers simply are not able to do that because they're based in the United States. Yeah. But the other thing, the other reason the Glazers always gave towards the end for not going to Old Trafford, not going to games, and that really upset the fans, more than anything, actually. I mean, you want your owner to be there.

19:19You want to see them. You want to share their beliefs. You want to see them sharing in your passion. And the Glazers never did that. And of course, one of the reasons they gave was they were worried about their safety. Well, I don't think that's changed. Chris, is there any way you could see Ratcliffe walking away from Manchester United? Well, he's got problems. Look, Jim Ratcliffe's a very, very successful businessman, probably one of the most successful there's ever been in Britain, no question. But Ineos, his main chemicals business, That's not doing well. His investments in sport, none of his sports investments have worked.

19:59Cycling, the rugby, the America's Cup, Tottenham. I mean, none of these things have paid off. Formula One, none of it's worked. So yes, I can. I mean, if he gets a lot of personal abuse, and he has said, you know, he gave that warning, and there was a warning not that long ago saying, you know if I if I get much more personal abuse I may walk away he can walk away okay so what would it look like if the Caterese had been in charge um I think the debt would have gone um they would have had money um I think it would look more like a club um that's structured a bit like PSG or or City their money would have come in I've no doubt as well that they would have got a superstar manager.

20:45I mean, look, we can speculate, but somebody like Zidane or that sort of name who is electric around the world. I mean, Ruben Amarin, great guy, nice guy, all that stuff, but he's not Zidane. He's not this stellar name. I think they'd have put the money in and got the stellar names. The share price, big dips when Sir Alex went and when Ineos took over. Should that send a shiver down Manchester United fans' spines? Well, I think the bottom line there is if you'd bought Manchester United shares when the Glazer family floated some of the shares they owned on the New York Stock Exchange, I think back in 2012, it's not a very good investment because they floated around $14 a share.

21:29And at the moment, they're around$15 a share. And the spikes you see, those are when the Qataris were involved in bidding to buy the club and the share price almost doubled. But apart from that, it hasn't really been a great investment. What is interesting, if you look at what's happened at Manchester United since the Glazers bought the club 20 years ago, they bought a debt-free club and they bought the club in a very, very controversial leveraged buyout. They placed a debt of£604 million on the club, which was debt-free. That gross financial debt is now£742 million, 20 years later. And the total interest that Manchester United have paid on that debt is£852 million.

22:26United's gross financial debt at the moment is£742 million, plus the transfer debt,£447 million, gives you a total gross debt of£1.2 billion. This was a club that was debt-free before the Glazers arrived. The Glazers have also made at least£1 billion from floating back in 2012 and also selling some of their shares to Ineos, being owned by the Glazers has also cost Manchester United over a billion pounds. We're going to have to leave it there. Chris Blackhurst, great pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you very much for coming in.

23:22Hello again. This is Inside Manchester United. discussing the 20 times champions of England. Well, Louis Saha helped the club win two of those Premier League titles and joins us now, Louis. Really good to see you. Right, Ruben Amrim, Sir Jim Radcliffe has said he's going to get three years. What do you make of that? I think it's a good sign that they know it's not an easy situation and the transition may take times. It may take the actual acceptation to the frustration, not having all things sorted there is a lot of elements that this manager will face that he will discover we have to accept that a lot of pressure is going to be put on him based on the position that he has there is a lot of talks around his formation a lot of talks about how he pick the players and sometimes put them in the wrong position so it does not help but I think the team foundation is better it could frustrate a lot of people that's for sure.

24:24But at the end, I think they have to show a bit of faith on the manager. And this is what the statement is doing. Okay. All right. You mentioned the formation there. So let's get into that. If you were in the dressing room and you had a manager who rigidly stuck to a formation and the team was losing pretty much all the time, what would you be thinking? And what would your teammates be thinking? I think there is a big issue of a balance there. So So there is like players who left, players who arrived. There is a lot of elements where you know that the manager will come with a philosophy and be rigid about it.

25:03Say, OK, this is the way I want to play. And you have to adapt as a player. You have to adapt. There is element where the manager can't affect you as much. Even if they put you on left or right or whatever, you're still a player. You have to find your space. You have to find the way to create chances. you have to find a way to defend and you have to to find a way to be motivated and approach the game as the manager wants and i think this is what is missing and this is where he's very disappointed as a manager sometimes he's just like find himself with players who tend to hide behind maybe sometimes certain type of excuses like the formation like whatever hasn't played in the right position but but i see that there is element where they they need to find solution regardless the actual, you know, problem that they face.

25:52And that's the problem that my United have to really understand that. And this is where the almost spirit of the Busby's Babe, it's always about this youth and innocence and courage. Obviously, they have to find this ability to express themselves and be certain that they are better than the opposition. And they have to impose a rhythm. And the formation can help, definitely give you half a second, sometimes more. But definitely when you see that you concede goals early on in games, you're going to lose them. And this is the type of thing that the manager is asking from his players. And regardless of people who focus on formation, I can understand.