Title-race twist! Doku saves Man City with dramatic stoppage-time equaliser

4 May 2026 · 49 min · 16 chapters

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In short

Manchester City vs Everton (3-3) is discussed as a title-race turning point: City were 3-1 up but conceded three goals in a 13-minute spell after Mark Gehi’s mistake. Topic: how Jeremy Doku’s two late finishes (including a stoppage-time equaliser) rescued City, and what the result means for the Premier League title race.

Guest backgrounds

The episode features pundits Thierry Henry and Jamie Carragher, plus interviews with managers Pep Guardiola (City) and David Moyes (Everton).

Key claims

City’s first-half control collapsed due to unforced errors and Everton’s direct, aggressive approach; the point leaves City five behind Arsenal with four games left, putting the title “back in Arsenal’s hands.”

Notable examples

Everton goals by Tierno Barry (2) and Jake O’Brien (1); City’s comeback via Haaland and Doku; Gehi’s simple pass error; a Doku right-foot equaliser after a late Everton corner scramble; Moyes says Everton defended the second goal poorly but deserved more.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

Match Overview: Everton vs. Manchester City

0:00 to 1:30

A recap of the thrilling match where Everton and Manchester City drew 3-3.

“Manchester City no longer masters of their own destiny.”

Title Race Implications

1:30 to 3:20

Discussion on how the draw affects the title race, especially for Arsenal.

“just when you thought you were having a sleepy bank holiday one day for Jamie Carragher.”

Key Moments in the Game

3:20 to 6:40

Analyzing critical moments and mistakes that shaped the match's outcome.

“People talk a lot about momentum, don't they, in these title races, Jamie?”

Everton's Resilience and City’s Errors

6:40 to 10:00

Exploring Everton's fightback and Manchester City's defensive mistakes.

“96.49 on the clock, City looking beaten before Jeremy Doku stepped up the second stunning goal of the night, this time with the right foot to snatch a point for City from the jaws of defeat.”

Doku's Impact and Game Dynamics

10:00 to 13:20

Highlighting Jeremy Doku's performance and the game's shifting dynamics.

“by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision.”

Looking Ahead: Upcoming Matches

13:20 to 14:00

Preview of upcoming matches and their potential impact on the title race.

“Talk us through what happens next, Jamie.”

Doku's Dramatic Equaliser Analysis

14:00 to 15:11

Analysis of Jeremy Doku's dramatic equalising goal against Everton.

“so he's already indicating that there's been a substitution, so they're going to play a little bit longer.”

Pep Guardiola's Post-Match Reflections

15:12 to 17:43

Pep Guardiola reflects on the match performance and title race implications.

“in the most incredible 3-all draw at Everton tonight.”

David Moyes on Everton's Performance

17:44 to 21:16

David Moyes discusses Everton's efforts and game dynamics against City.

“We tried and everything, the players who came up, they were aggressive, so we have done it.”

Final Thoughts on Everton's Season

22:51 to 28:00

Discussion on Everton's current standing and their potential for Europe.

“Sky Sports wherever you get your podcasts.”
Show all 16 chapters

Everton's Season and Atmosphere

28:00 to 29:53

Discussion on Everton's performances and thrilling game atmosphere this season.

“two or three more points they're up there with Brentford you know and that's how tight it's going to be.”

Chelsea's Struggles and Nottingham Forest's Success

30:37 to 36:51

Analysis of Chelsea's current challenges contrasted with Nottingham Forest's recent victories.

“Let's get back to the studio for more reaction to today's game.”

Managerial Challenges and Future of Chelsea

36:51 to 42:01

Discussion on the managerial situation at Chelsea and broader football management issues.

“to be able to build around and see where you're going.”

Managerial Honesty and Its Consequences

42:01 to 43:21

Discussing the challenges football managers face in expressing their frustrations.

“We always sit here and we look at a manager and you're like, we wish he was a bit more honest.”

Chelsea's Management Search: Potential Candidates

43:21 to 45:09

Exploring potential managerial candidates for Chelsea and their current situations.

“Well, I think you'd probably rule out the bottom three.”

The Current State of Chelsea Football Club

45:09 to 47:29

Analyzing the dissatisfaction among Chelsea supporters and the team's performance.

“And they went on a long run of not winning and obviously we all know the run that they're on now.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:04Manchester City no longer masters of their own destiny. It's a big advantage for Arsenal in this compelling title race. Eventually they leave with a point thanks to two wonderful finishes from Jeremy Doku, but they'll bitterly regret the mistake from Mark Gehi that led to Everton into a match that perhaps should have been beyond them. A 13-minute spell in which they conceded three goals to this Everton team. At that point, Pep Guardiola, whose side was 3-1 down, was absolutely crestfallen, but still through Haaland and through Docky's second, they've taken something from their first ever trip to Hill Dickinson but the facts remain they have a five point deficit on Arsenal they've still got four to play and Arsenal are just three from home and with a massive advantage now we shouldn't forget to give credit to Everton who get themselves onto the 48 point mark after two goals from Tierno Barry and one in between from Jake O 'Brien.

1:18It's a measure of how well they've done tonight that they'll be disappointed that it's only a draw for them. But what a breathless night it has been here. And it finishes Everton 3, Manchester City 3. Absolutely incredible. Thank you so much, Rob. What an amazing end to this game. What an incredible second half. just when you thought you were having a sleepy bank holiday one day for Jamie Carragher. What does it all mean? Well, we don't know if that point will be vital towards the end of the season, but it almost feels like a situation where almost everybody's disappointed. I think Manchester City disappointed because they felt like they were at ease at 1-0.

2:03Arsenal will be sat at home even though the biggest rivals have dropped two points. Arsenal supporters, players, manager will be absolutely devastated that it could have been a defeat. for Manchester City. Maybe should have been, but what a game. Unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing, what the impact it has on Arsenal, Thierry, who are just thinking, well, we could have, from an Arsenal point of view, afford to go and lose a game and maybe still be favourites to go and win the title. But that point, how much does it change things? I wouldn't think about it that way if I was Arsenal, that we can afford to lose a game or whatnot.

2:38But now it's back in your hand only. That's a fact. It's not in their hands anymore. and I said it at the beginning of the show, I can see City dropping points at Everton like I'm worried about the West Ham game. So I'm going to stay in my lane, not celebrate too early because nothing is done, but I could see that happening. Things can happen at Everton at any moment and I will say that I saw a bit of nervousness with City because they imploded. They technically brought Everton back into the game with some mistakes that this guy we saw that saved one with NDI and then after we saw the other one and then there was a good goal and then the game became crazy.

3:22People talk a lot about momentum, don't they, in these title races, Jamie? So there you were looking at Manchester City, might have been in a situation where they'll win the game and then could have dropped two points. Does this feel very different because they've gone and almost felt like they lost it and now gone on one-a-point? It feels better that you get the equaliser. And it's not just an equaliser. I mean, it was the second goal. Three seconds after Everton made it 3-1, straight from the kick-off, Harlan goes up the other end and scores. That was just unbelievable to watch. But I go back to, and I hope I'm right on this, I remember when Liverpool and Man City were going for the league in about 2013, I think Man City drew a game at home to Sunderland who were in the relegation battle.

4:06And they scored late on, and it still felt like two points dropped. But that point actually won them the league. Now, we won't know how important that point is until the end of the season. The Nasri equaliser you're thinking of. Yeah, it was very late. And it still felt like a big result for Liverpool, the dropping points, but it could have been better. Who knows if it would be that for Arsenal. Right, here's the numbers then. So that point for Manchester City moves them on to 71. They can still get to 83. That is the magic number. 84 will get Arsenal to the title simply for them win those three remaining games and they are home and hoes and they can't look at any other way can they Thierry?

4:48Yeah that's what I said to you like yeah we can see that Man City dropped two points tonight but you can't start to think okay now maybe there's no maybe win your games like I said to you I'm worried for the West Ham one like I was worried for City with the Everton one so do not look at what City are doing right now because it is in your games you win the title it's funny how your Arsenal sat at home wouldn't it it's such a strange sort of feeling your rival has dropped points of course to see City come back like that could have been even better but listen it's a great night for them of course it is yeah but it's just oh wow it's back in their hands isn't it because it that's the most important thing you don't need to look at what City are doing it's in your hands yeah and of course Arsenal have to watch Manchester City you go through this all over again on Saturday.

5:37It's going to be emotional, isn't it? Right up until the finish line in this title race because they take on Brentford on Saturday night. Can they recover in time for that, regroup and go and beat Brentford? We will see because then on Sunday, we've got four games for you. Two o 'clock, Forest Newcastle, Burnley Villa and Crystal Palace, Everton, before we watch Arsenal, have their response when they go to West Ham United. It's a game that's, Jerry, you've heard him say a couple of times. is worried about this from the West Ham perspective. They've got something big to fight for. Jamie was impressed with how they went on against Brentford despite losing the game in convincing fashion.

6:14And then we're watching Spurs as well next Monday night as they take on Leeds United, who look safe now. Spurs far from it and they play Everton on the final weekend as well. And Everton, with that point, might still be in the race for European places on that final weekend as well.

6:34And available right now for you, the Sky Original Prisoner. You can see it on Sky Atlantic. 96.49 on the clock, City looking beaten before Jeremy Doku stepped up the second stunning goal of the night, this time with the right foot to snatch a point for City from the jaws of defeat. Well, they still were unsure what to make of it because they led for so long at Hill Dickinson tonight before somehow contriving to concede three goals in a short space of time in that second half when Everton just found another gear roared on by Hill Dickinson Stadium. And this is how it leaves us now. City five points behind Arsenal, so with one game in hand.

7:23Put simply, Arsenal, if they win those final three games, they will be champions for the first time in 2020. two years. Right, let's get into the analysis on an amazing night. Just one goal in a relatively quiet first half, which City completely controlled. And Thierry, we talked at halftime about the X factor, the players like Jeremy Doku, who can get these little spaces around the box and just create something special. Exactly that. You see Ryan Scherke getting the ball. Jeremy Doku is going to receive it now. In this type of situation, you need to create something out of nothing, and that's exactly what he did.

8:02And what a goal with his left foot, as you're going to see. The goalkeeper doesn't even have to die, but he did. Pickford, there's no way he can get to that. And what a goal from Jeremy Ducou. And they were in total control. They were in complete control. So then suddenly, they just seemed to lose that control in the second half, Jamie. How? Well, a man who's been much maligned for Evertonian. Tino Bani came on and he caused huge problems. Mixed up, big mistake. Gaye, Nunes, and then die. and when he missed that, I think every Arsenal supporter was thinking of a couple of years ago when Hu Ming-Song was in a similar position for Tottenham against Manchester City and missed and we were thinking about that analysis for the end of the game, but Donald Rubin reads it.

8:43Yeah, he reads it really well. Listen, it's not a great finish, it's his heel really but again, as Thierry mentioned, it was more of a mistake for Man City that was getting Everton back into the game but Barry made a big difference. This became a theme, Thierry, City making unforced errors. Old school football Long to the striker Play the second ball Put the team under pressure Yes, we all know Vary was offside I don't know why actually Gueye makes that pass Because you know he's offside You can turn As you can see here I mean, it's tough for the defence Because you hold the line ever so well You put him offside You know he's offside Okay I don't know why Gueye here Doesn't just keep the ball And step out of it Of the defence with it He just, he knows Okay, he passes the ball He knows as soon as he's done it, doesn't he?

9:28Exactly. So that's what I was saying. They were nervous at one point. As soon as Everton went a bit more direct, long ball, fighting for the second ball. What a brilliant finish from Cheney Barrett. Very, very good finish. But, I mean, what a chance to be able to do that. That's all Man City. In an offside position, but not offside until he actually interferes with the opponent. This is the wording on that law. or a player will be penalised for offside if they are preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision. I think we can say he didn't do that.

10:05Challenging an opponent for the ball. No? Clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball. Does he do any of those? No, it was the right decision. Obviously, he goes and speaks to the Lions with Michael Oliver, but they got to the right decision. it's just a really bad mistake from Mark Gay who's been absolutely outstanding hasn't he since he's come to Manchester City and the thing about it is he looks away in disgust even before he's had the shot he knows it's a huge mistake is it the right thing going back is it the wrong thing going back should he actually turn away Jamie what would you be doing in that situation yeah he can keep listen you can't make a mistake like that at this level of football it's a simple pass yes he could maybe turn the other way but I mean that is a pass he will play another 10 ,000 times not 100 10 ,000 and he will not do that.

10:56To be fair to him, he had two outstanding blocks also. My game. Yeah, to stop Everton scoring. The noise levels were cranked up. We talked before the game about the possibility of set pieces being a key for Everton. So it proved. Creating chaos, Thierry. Jamie called it. They said if there's a chance to score, he will be on the corner apart from the mistake. But I've been in that situation playing against Everton. if you make them feel that they can or the fans feel like something can happen in the game that place goes ballistic quickly and then it did. It did, what a header. City were absolutely stunned at this moment from the leaders evaporated they're wondering if the title is slipping through their hands and it gets even worse, Jamie.

11:45Yeah, listen, this place just erupted. You talk about a new stadium. Terry talks about Goodison Park a lot but this is one of the great days or great nights at this new stadium but the lack of place from Kovacic there was a little bit startling Hey, what an assist for Merlin Roll there Yeah, he'd get the assist it was a missus of a shot He had a really good game though He did really well Listen, Barry's there, isn't he? When it's your night Yeah It's your night And he's the type of guy, Barry, isn't he? I mean, we've said all season every time you see him you just want to give him a hug make sure he's alright But to mind he would Yeah And listen, it hasn't gone as well as he would have liked but we can see he's onside.

12:21He reacts well, finishes it well. And at 3-1, you do think that is game over and title over. I mean, I think Mikel Arteta was already getting his bottles of champagne for David Moore. He was already getting sent. He was getting wrapped. He still has to sort his feet out, doesn't he, there, Tiano Barry? Because there's that little deflection and he manages to... He's got to be there. He's got to be there. He was there. That's it in. I want to see the rest of that celebration. But this is actually from the kick-off, which is incredible. Did they just go to sleep, Everton? here I love what Kovacic does though forward look can I see my guy yes straight away there's no need to go to on the outside or whatever can you see Allen straight away and obviously they play that pass because they are losing because they need to score but you know how many times that that's on for Allen in games so many times and you go left right but because you have to go forward he went forward control in front of him pass the ball and then for him to do that now oops to make it 3-2 And that just guaranteed a really nervy last 10 minutes or so at Hill Dickinson tonight.

13:24They were really pushing. This is deep into stoppage time. A corner, you see Donnarumma up there. Talk us through what happens next, Jamie. And then it's just a sprint. Who can get there first? Everton players just excited. You can imagine the crowd being up, think they're going to get another goal. And probably too many of them go forward at once. And before you know it, there's four players out the game. But Cherky does brilliant here. Listen, James Garno's been really tired. End of the game. but Jerky goes past them brilliantly, stays on his feet, they have to stay in the feet, time is running out.

13:53And then they get another corner. So six minutes are already gone here, you see Michael Oliver, Jamie's pointing him out, so he's already indicating that there's been a substitution, so they're going to play a little bit longer. You know, you have to stay with Gueye here, because when that ball arrived, we were all looking at it, obviously, and I'm like, oh no, he miscontrolled the ball, and the ball goes to obviously Jeremy Doku, and we know how we finish but if you stay with his reaction look at the goal and look at the reaction of Gay he doesn't know if he needs to celebrate or if he saves me or I don't know he's going to end up having an assist but what a goal now he does it with his right foot and you wonder actually if the chance had gone there if he was going to shoot there but he goes into more bodies I think we're going to have another angle from behind I mean that's why you don't need to hit it hard you just have to place it well and make sure that he goes this one that's a beauty that's just a beauty there's no way you can get that and he was outstanding what a season he's had Thierry when you think of the wide players under Pep Guardiola you think of Sane and Sterling you think of Mahrez brilliant I mean David Silva a bit of them all tucked in but they've had great wide players and they've probably lacked that probably in the last 18 months or so but he's really come to the fore this season 96-49 when Doku snatched an equaliser in the most incredible 3-all draw at Everton tonight.

15:18Let's get the reaction of Pep Guardiola, who must have lived every single second of that. He's with Pimol and Stine. Well, Pep, it felt like a real battle out there, especially in that second half. It was very lively, but you come away with a point. How do you reflect on the performance tonight? Really good. Very outstanding first half. Really, really good. We cared a lot and we're so tired, so difficult physicality in second half. They make a step up. we were maybe not as much aggressive to control and after of course we give away the goal but after they come back and they make a proper English game and so aggressive so so aggressive in the duels and but in general we make a really good performance.

16:04What did you make of the first half in particular because Manchester City had so much possession but how difficult were Everton to break down until of course Jeremy Docky got his goal. Yeah, they were more difficult for them to break down, right? They have one chance, you know? So it was more difficult for them than for us. I think we were outstanding. So we arrived by line a lot and shoots and chances. And it's not easy because they play defensively so well with 10 players there, transition with Beto, with Dock, does very whole. And yeah, so we take the point and until it's over, it's over, we can continue.

16:43At 1-0 up, there was a challenge from Michael Keane onto Jeremy Doku. What did you make of that? OK, you're putting this, can say it. Second half changed, obviously. Everton getting the goal. Where do you feel the differences were then in terms of how open the game was compared to the first half? As a momentum, they were more aggressive. In general, we were good in our process. and we arrived, Jeremy was standing on the left side and we created a lot, we arrived a lot and unfortunately we could not capitalise, especially in the first half that we did it. Everton away is always difficult and I give credit to them for his composed aggressivity and step up and nothing to say.

17:30How pleased are you with the fight back from your team to get something from the game, get a point? We don't know what this will mean in the title race, but a point will be, does it look like a positive to you? No, it's better than lose, we better win and we play for that. It just shows what the team they are. We tried and everything, the players who came up, they were aggressive, so we have done it. In terms of the title race then, does it still feel like a blow to you, this performance, this result? Well, no, it depends on our hands. before that game. It was in our hands, in the hands arsenal as well, but in our hands, now no.

18:08So we had to do the four games. Yeah, four games that we have in the Premier League. So next Brentford and it will be quite similar because the competitors are good and we'll see what happens. Do you still have to go to every game now though with that belief that you can still do it? Yeah, of course. Like we came here. Pep, thank you for your time. You're very welcome. Because they've done it so many times before, haven't they? And if you're looking for a positive from a Manchester City perspective, Thierry, would you actually, or could you actually argue that they've got the hardest one out of the way?

18:40That's the one I thought, like I said to you, Dave, before at the top of the show, where I thought that they were going to drop points against Everton. I'm going to go back to Arsenal, and I said it again, where I think we can also drop points. Hey, but if you think about it, as he said, they come back into the game. You can see he has to be positive because there's still plenty of points to play. But like I said, the only thing that changed, and he said it, is that now it is in Arsenal's hands only. Yep. And they've only got one away game left. Another positive from a City perspective? Yes, maybe, but it's a tough game.

19:23You talk about that, you really felt that could be the toughest game. I mean, that's equally as tough going to Bournemouth away. we've highlighted Bournemouth on this show tonight in great form but actually from an Arsenal point of view tonight's all about the league I get that, but I think that tomorrow can you imagine that stadium tomorrow the excitement, yes they're in a different competition but the excitement from Arsenal fans the energy that will be in that stadium get to a Champions League final, the league's in your own hands with how long to go, two or three weeks to go but if Arsenal win that game away, next Sunday they've won the league, the league's won I think that's what it's on if they beat West Ham it's on if they beat Burnley absolutely no problem at home I think it's on West Ham away and then as I said if Manchester City it's going to have to win maximum points then to take it to the last day but I think if they win at West Ham away the league's won Well what a big game that is for Arsenal this coming Sunday one other instant just to clear up we had a verdict on it at half time let's have another look Pep said let's leave it to the pundits to give their view So Thierry do you want this to be a red card?

20:32Look you can see here Jeremy Doku is lucky that it's not properly on his ankle it's a bit on the top of his foot and he gets him with his other leg what I would say is if they bring that back to the referee to see it with VAR in slow motion which is actually kind of you know very impactful full speed, I think he would have been in trouble, Kim. I do think he would have been in trouble. I mean, to be clear, they do look at all the incidents, don't they? Yes, I think. Whether it's going to be a red card or not, and they were happy to stick with the on-field decision of a yellow card, the biggest significance of that, Jamie, would be the game situation.

21:09They were 1-0 up at that point. Everton going down to 10 might have made things a little bit easier for them. Honestly, if that was a red card, the game would have been over, you would imagine, but I think it's a yellow. I understand it's not a great challenge, he's a little bit out of control, but it's probably in between a yellow and a red. But it's not enough for a red for me, so I think a yellow card is the right decision. It stayed 11-11 and it finished three apiece after an extraordinary night at Hill Dickinson. And that point might just help Everson and their push for European football.

21:41And what an extraordinary achievement that would be for David Moyes as well. We'll hear from him next.

21:56it's time for the EFL playoffs where one moment can change an entire season join me Simeon Golem on the essential EFL podcast for all the stories and the drama across the championship league one and league two I'll be joined by Sky Sports' top EFL to analyze all of the games and bring you immediate reaction to the Wembley finals that's the essential EFL podcast from Sky Sports listen wherever you get your podcasts

22:50We'll see you next time. Sky Sports wherever you get your podcasts. For now, though, let's get back to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast.

23:06This is the Sky Sports Premier League podcast. Let's get more analysis of the game and return to the studio. Drop points for Manchester City tonight in the title race. Still there, Erling Haaland reminding his teammates as they depart the field having drawn 3-3. Still there, he says. Five points the gap now. And spare a thought for Everton tonight because they've conceded stoppage time goals to Liverpool and West Ham in the last couple of weeks to lose games and tonight to drop points as well against Manchester City. Let's hear from David Moyes now. He's with Pien Mullensy. David, you come away with a point, but is this one of those instances where you feel like you actually deserved more from this game?

23:57Well, we did in the end, yeah, we should have and we let ourselves down because we defended the second goal so poorly. It was probably the main reason for it. But look, at half time we would have certainly taken this result because we were hugely outplayed in the first half. When you look back at that first half, the differences between the second half, what did you ask for to change in that second half? Well, I wanted us to get a little bit more contact, a bit closer to Manchester City. We couldn't get near them. And to be fair, they played really well as well, so I have to give them huge credit for that.

24:30But we weren't anywhere near what we've done. Probably the poorest, I think, we've probably played here against certainly the better teams this season. So the players made a great effort to get us in the game I mean, really, when we got to 3-1, you're saying, well, we should be doing enough to see it out. But we didn't do. You made the changes, Tino Barry coming on and clearly making quite the impact as well. Just how pleased are you with the way that he reacted to what you wanted him to do? Well, it was quite a difficult time recently. So he came off the bench, got himself a couple of goals, which for any striker is a great thing.

25:05It'll give him great confidence. So, no, I'm really pleased for him. and look, we probably had a couple of other big chances. Ellie had a couple of big chances, which we quite often fancy him, so maybe a bit disappointed, but getting a point against Manchester City is not a bad result, but when you're 3-1 up, you're thinking you're in a great chance of winning. What can you use from a game like this, performance like this, against opponents like Manchester City, especially in your last couple of games, fighting for those places in Europe? We've actually played quite well in the last couple of games.

25:39The first half was the worst we've played for months. So it was a great result that we were only 1-0 down at half-time. And I told them that. It was the biggest plus we could have at half-time was that we were only one down. And it proved to be we kept at it and we got our goals and we got our opportunities. So, yeah, they've done a really good job in the second half. What does that say about your team, though, that they are able to adapt when something's not going right, when you want them to change and clearly they made that change so quickly? Well, I think there is a good team and there's a great bunch of lads here and they're honest with the way they work and what they do.

26:19So I've never questioned that. I just thought in the first half, we didn't really get up to speed at all. And as I said, Man City were good. But I always thought that if we could get a moment in the game, we might have some chances, get some opportunities. And we did do. But, you know, we should have probably buried it and had the game finished. we really should have so going into the last couple of games then how are you seeing it? how's the confidence going into those last ones? I'm not sure I think it's going to be tough the last couple of games we've lost games late on recently and today we've drawn it so that's disappointing so it could and probably will have an effect on our finishing position David thank you very much for your time tonight cheers thank you see you later well we'll come to that but I'm not sure if David Moyes is a huge fan of expected goals, but their figure tonight was 2.77.

27:10That is the third highest non-penalty XG of any side against Pep Guardiola's Manchester City. So something to be proud of. And it did get them a point. And maybe for some Everton fans, they might think before the game, that it's a bonus point. It's lifted them into the top half. And who knows how far down it will go in this race for Europe with games against Crystal Palace away, Sunderland home, and then finishing at Spurs. Jamie to come they're not out of this are they? No they're not and it's funny with a lot of these teams some teams just below Everton that these last few games of the season could almost determine how you feel about the season because the league is so tight that a couple of wins at the end of the season could put you in Europe or it could put you down in 14th and it completely changes your view of how the season's been and Everton have been very unlucky as David Moyes said in these last couple of games two or three more points they're up there with Brentford you know and that's how tight it's going to be.

28:05But no disrespect to the teams that you've just mentioned, but they're probably fixtures that you look at with Crystal Palace in, obviously, the European adventures. Sunderland, probably not what they were in the first half of the season. And Tottenham might just be one of those games. Who knows what that's going to be like. Yeah, I mean, that could be a game. Everton are going for Europe. Tottenham are trying to stay in the league. That would be an unbelievable game to be involved in for Everton. But no, I go back and we've done Everton a lot on Monday Night Football, haven't we? and there's been a lot of talk through this season that they haven't quite hit it off in terms of results at home.

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28:39But what they have had in the second half of the season that they didn't have too much in the first half, they've had sort of games or nights to remember with the atmosphere and the roof come off there tonight at 3-1 when you've seen the celebration from Barry. You think of the Chelsea game, I was there for the Liverpool game, Liverpool get the late winner, but when the teams come out before the game, the noise in that stadium. So it's something to certainly hang on to this season before it's still a few games to go. And just imagine if they did get European football at Hill Dickinson next season, they would frighten some teams there, I'm sure of that, next season.

29:10Let's see how it pans out for the Toffees. It has been a dramatic day all round on this Bank Holiday Monday. What a story, Forrest, earlier at Chelsea. And we'll have another look at that in just a moment.

29:33Tracy Neville. And we've teamed up this season for Sky Netball's Off the Court podcast. Join us every week as we shoot through the hottest topics in Netball. We'll bring you everything you need to know from the Super League to the Super Shop, all building towards the Commonwealth Games. Make sure you give Off the Court a follow where you listen to your podcasts. Or you can even find us on YouTube. That's Off the Court, a Sky Sports podcast.

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30:36Welcome back to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast. Let's get back to the studio for more reaction to today's game. Well, a lot of head shaking at full time at Sanford Bridge earlier today. Chelsea beaten for the sixth successive game, but Forest fans have got a new darling, Vitor Pereira, absolutely adored by them, guiding them to another victory. Seven have beaten the Premier League now, And remember, they have Europa League semi-final. Just imagine if they can get into the Champions League and stay in the Premier League, which looks at a certainty on that front because of that victory at Chelsea today.

31:14We will come on to talk about Chelsea, but how good were Forrest today? Really good. Brilliant start. I think everybody just felt it would almost be a saving victory for Chelsea. But something's not right with Chelsea, culture-wise. Let's forget the players on the pitch who they're up against. For a Nottingham Forest B team really to go. Yeah, they've made eight changes. We should remind people of that. Yeah, that's why I said B team. But listen, brilliant header. Great start. 1-0 up. And he's done well for them, hasn't he? I think Steve Cooper brought him in a few years ago. Does really well for them.

31:48Doesn't obviously start too often. Whenever he's there, he's a menace. Got good pace on the counter-attack as well. You always get the feeling when he does play that he is a handful. and if he's not playing for Forrest then I reckon that somebody else would use him a lot more because he is such a threat and causes problems here as well. But Malogusto should know, should know better in this type of situation. I know he's trying to say that there is nothing. It was a tiny bit lazy the way he didn't cover the centre-back there and tried to get away with it. He couldn't get away with it. Great penalty.

32:21And I'm happy also for Dylan Bakwa. You know, there were a lot of question marks about him and he had a good game also this afternoon. Yeah, he did. And Chelsea thought they would get back into it just before half-time because there was a penalty for Cole Palmer, but that was saved. And then Forrest really just strengthened their grip on the game, making half-time changes. Milenkovich on, Anderson on and Morgan Gibbs-White with that key pass. Brilliant. I mean, when I look at that, it's very reminiscent of Kevin De Bruyne making that run on that inside right channel. He'll whip a ball across into one of his strikers.

32:54Fantastic. And he kept himself onside. it looked a tight one did really well didn't get ahead of the ball well then maybe we actually saw the goal of the game from Chelsea one of the goals of the season in terms of acrobatics isn't it this one of the I mean look how empty the stadium is behind there right now that tells you all you need to know about the situation right now with Chelsea but Pedro was certainly one of the bright spots for Chelsea this season that was a brilliant goal and he's had a really good season so far they're a really worrying moment at the end of that first half because there was a challenge between young Jesse Derry, son of Sean Derry, who was making his first appearance in a Premier League game, and up against Zach Abbott, who was playing it right back for Forrest.

33:40The two collided in the air, going for a ball. That was what resulted in a penalty for Chelsea, but a nasty clash of heads, which saw both of them go off. Jesse Derry, obviously, in a worse state and was taken to hospital. The word from Chelsea is that he is conscious, talking and undergoing precautionary checks. And of course, everybody will wish him a speedy recovery and hope we see him back on a football pitch very soon. That wasn't the only clash of heads in the game because there was an incident towards the back end of it when Robert Sanchez got in a collision with Morgan Gibbs-White. So that left Morgan Gibbs-White with a nasty cut down the middle of his forehead.

34:21Vitor Pereira has said he hopes that he'll be available for the game on Thursday. So fingers crossed for Morgan Gibbs-White. There could be some huge games still to come for Forrest this season, certainly if they can get past Aston Villa on Thursday night. So this is how it has left things standing. And is that Forrest safe now, Thierry? Hmm, you can never say. Everything is for sure in football. Six points. effectively seven with West Ham's goal difference yeah I think they've done enough come on they've done enough no James? yeah they're fine it's now just all about Tottenham and West Ham that's what it'll be about next weekend obviously we've got the Monday Night Football here with Tottenham West Ham played the day before so there's a lot riding on that game in terms of the top of the table and the relegation zone how impressive is the work that Beto Pereira has done going into Nottingham Forest there Thierry?

35:16really impressive I have to say I saw them play in the Europa League and recently the way they are playing. We all thought today that it was maybe going to be difficult for them because it changes. But you can see what he's been building with the team because he has the trust of the guys. He put some youngsters in, some guys that didn't play for a very long time, and he looked the same, exactly the same, with the way they go about stuff. So you have to give him a lot of credit. Let's have a look at the top half. Noting that Fulham are on 48 points in 11th, Sunderland only won behind that on 47.

35:49And that's significant because when we move it into the top half, we see that Everton are on 48 with that point tonight. Chelsea are on 48, only a point above Sunderland in 12th place. So six consecutive defeats, albeit ending their goal drought, their first in two months in the Premier League this evening. But still, that is a sorry state of affairs. How would you sum up Chelsea's season, Thierry? You know what? It's been a rollercoaster, to say the least, with coaches coming, players coming and going. But it's been the story of Chelsea for a very long time now. And I mean, to be in this type of situation, I never thought I would have said that about the Chelsea that I know that we played against.

36:33You know, being in this type of situation, losing six games in a row and only scoring one goal at the time of a game. But like Jamie said, at one point, what's the new identity, what's the new philosophy of Chelsea Football Club right now. I think at one point you need to keep some type of a core to be able to build around and see where you're going. And at one point you need to get a manager that's going to need to have time to implement what is about. Again, I keep on mentioning Mikel Arteta. It took Mikel Arteta a little while to put things together at Arsenal, but we all know also that Chelsea go about their manager and the way they do and keep their manager a different way.

37:19But I think it's time to give a manager time to be able to work at what this team is needed. That's one of the problems. I think they had the manager in Mureska. I was really impressed with the work Mureska did. And then there's obviously a clash of personalities. And at that football club, there's no one more powerful than the sporting directors. And they're letting that be known. But once you get a manager who starts winning trophies, understandably, his ego, he wants a little bit more power, that's normal, that's what top managers get when they get more successful. So they're going to have to deal with that in the future if they do get a top manager or someone who's successful because they lost out on Mareske.

37:55But with the only Jamie though, Begdarek Bali and the sporting directors, if they won the FA Cup, would they say this has still been a successful season? No chance, absolutely no chance, no. I mean, we're at the 19th, I mean, they've been 10th. It's about winning trophies, isn't it? Yes, yes and no. For that type of expenditure, you should be challenging for the league and you should be going close, certainly latter stages of the Champions League. We're talking about a team who've won the Champions League twice in the last 15 years or 20 years or something. So they're no minnows. They're a big club in European football.

38:25But I'm seen as this guy, certainly by Chelsea fans, this guy who doesn't like Chelsea. And I said on this show a few years ago, players have got to stop signing for Chelsea. What I meant by that, and I still stand by it, it wasn't about the individual player as if like I've got something against Chelsea my point being is if you're continually buying and selling players you can never create a connection as a team you've got to go through things together they buy two wingers every year so you know the two they buy the year before how do they feel you can't go straight into a club and be amazing straight away you have to build you have to grow as a group with a manager with players of course every club buys and sells players at the end of the season.

39:07But this is just a continual conveyor belt. That was the point I was making at the time. If I was a young player, why would I sign for Chelsea? Because they'd give me 12 months and I thought it wasn't amazing. They'd just gone by someone else. So I have no feel for the club. So that's where that comment comes from. It's not against Chelsea. I just look at it and think, how can that work? How can that build? How can you build a connection between supporters and players and staff? It's not there. So do they need to change their model a little bit, Thierry, do you think? Do you suspect that maybe there's a little bit too much power invested in the decision makers rather than in the person who's in charge of the football team, whether that's a head coach or a manager?

39:44Jamie had a great point there. And I'm going to mention Mikel Arteta again. At one point, you could see how Mikel Arteta was getting more powerful at the club because he looks like he was going places. They gave him the money that he needed. They gave him the team that he needed. And look at what's happening right now. but I do believe whatever the module is, the success you want to have or the identity and philosophy you're going to have, they have people in place in order to think about that and do that. I'm just saying at one point, can you let the manager work? Because if not, it's going to be very difficult.

40:14If every time you change the manager, you change the style and the shape of your team, how are you going to go anywhere? So I think for me, that's vital in any club, by the way. It's not only a Chelsea thing. As a relatively young coach yourself, would you look at that club and would there be red flags in terms of if you, for example, went in there or someone of your stature went in there about how much control you would actually have? It's not so much about the control. It's about the time. And then after control might come because you might maybe deserve it or not. But it's not, like I said, it's not a Chelsea thing.

40:47If you're a coach right now and obviously if Chelsea comes for you and you are the type of manager that can handle it, you're going to go. but then how long how long you're going to be able to change stuff you can see that stuff needs to be changed and happen in that football club but time is key and at time as a coach you don't have the time that you need to be able to change when it needs to be changed I go back, it took Klopp a little while to make that team successful at Liverpool Mikel Arteta, look at how long it took Pep Guardiola this year the great Pep Guardiola to find the right balance in order for Man City to be successful again I mentioned it at the top of the show he had to go and get Gay and Semenyo and make Ryan Cherky understand what he needs to do so it's not always easy but did any of those people we're going to throw some names into the mix in a minute did any of those people that you've mentioned talk against their employers publicly which is with the accusation against Enzo Maresca which is why Chelsea had to make the change do you not have to play by the rules if you do get the opportunity Thierry well I've seen so many coaches do that and sometimes when they do it you're like uh oh it might be the end if he does that but I think that sometimes also wire managers are not allowed to express themselves and I know if you do you open yourself to an issue look at the coach of Crystal Palace he's been talking about okay you ask me to stay and then you sell my best players and then we don't really invest but why a manager is not allowed to express himself.

42:23We always sit here and we look at a manager and you're like, we wish he was a bit more honest. We want to know what's happening. And as soon as you're honest, you know, you have to take your car and leave the car park. Let's throw some names into the mix then and maybe come up with some contenders that Chelsea may or may not be looking at right now. Oh, that's an interesting one at the top. What is Cesare Briga doing there? Very popular ex-Chelsea player. are doing very well in management, so I'm told, with Como. Very well indeed. Philippa Luiz, who was linked previously with the Chelsea job. Xavi Alonso out of work.

43:00Julian Nagelsmann has been on everybody's lips this summer, leading Germany into the World Cup. Oliver Glasner will be leaving Palace. And Donnie Irioli will be leaving Bournemouth. And Marco Silva may well be leaving Fulham. His contract expires. Commentary fans will wince Frank Lampard's name on that list and a couple of former favourites there as well. Jamie, where do you think they should be looking? Well, I think you'd probably rule out the bottom three. They've all managed Chelsea before. So I don't really see that. I don't see Glasner because of the back three. We've had this conversation before about other top clubs, so I think that wouldn't happen.

43:35I don't see Xabi Alonso there, whether it was linked as a Liverpool player and Chelsea being big rivals at the time. I might be wrong on that, but I think if he was coming to the Premier League, it probably would be Liverpool at some stage. Fabregas does look right now one of the new hot things in football doing fantastic I will Felipe Luiz has done really well I've got that right yeah yeah he's with Flamengo but he's he obviously had a spell at Chelsea as a player you know what I think would be really interesting and I think as a Chelsea supporter they really dislike their own club right now I could imagine in terms of their ownership and the players you watch a team like get beat six times not score a goal there's obviously something lacking there's quality there's no doubt Wembley a couple of weeks ago against Leeds yeah they had an alright first half in the middle of losing six in the bounce we're talking Chelsea by the way this is a team who used to win in Premier Leagues and go far in Champions League but my point being is when you see someone like Iriola I don't think you could ever fall out of love with his team if you were a supporter do you understand what I mean they always run there's always that running LLM, they will lose games, they will maybe pick up injuries because of the style of play and I probably would like to see him in a bigger job and how he adapts, be a lot more difficult with more games and probably would be a little bit more injuries, probably Jürgen Klopp like at Liverpool where Liverpool picked up injuries but I almost feel like Chelsea supporters need to fall back in love with the club again right now because I don't think there's any real feeling, I think there's a real dislike for the people running the club or also people playing for the club as well We had a discussion about the Raola and I think it was the Brighton-Ballmove game that we did that night I think on the Modern Night Football and I said that they started the season well, remember?

45:25And they went on a long run of not winning and obviously we all know the run that they're on now. Do you think at a big club they will accept that run at the beginning of the season? Well, after that great start that he had that he went on the run of not winning for a very long time. That's when he becomes streaky at a big club at Bournemouth for example for Hiraola nobody said anything then he went back to prove that what he is he's a great coach but would he I agree with you you've got a long run on a big club you've got a problem but probably he would argue or people would argue would he have better players at a bigger club so you're not on that run as long what if you saw the style was taking shape the patterns were there I'm just saying that at one point again we're going to go back to the same thing but you know you need to be patient things are not always going to work straight away you might be on the run of not winning for four or five and and then you need to stick to the manager and and and see what he can do on the long run and then now we all know what the role i did and i think he's an outstanding coach i'm just saying that sometimes in the in bracket please in the lesser club when you go on the bad run is less highlighted though you work a bit a tiny bit on the less pressure you won't have the same player also a lot of players sold and never said a word publicly anyway, Bournemouth and only Araiola.

46:47You just got on with it. So you think the Chelsea hierarchy would like that? Might that be the right thing? Listen, I think we're not far away from... The next thing that would have to change is not... Years ago, you'd say sack the balls, wouldn't you? That's what, you know... But the investment in clubs now, you're talking billions, so that's not going to happen. But the people at the very top of Chelsea have got to be looking away from the manager and the person in the dugout and say, do we have too many sporting directors? Do they need to have less profile? Everybody knows who they are. There's cameras on them.

47:17There's talk about them. You need to just get back to actually sort of slimline and almost like it's about the manager. And there's these people in the background, as there is at every club, but no one's at as high profile and nobody's got as many, or it certainly seems like from the outside. Jamie, thank you very much. We'll leave it there. Thierry, always a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you very much for being with us. Enjoyed your company on this bank holiday Monday, which has brought us two really entertaining games of football. And there's some pretty entertaining sport coming your way as well.

47:45Tennis tomorrow morning, 10 a.m., the start of the Italian Open. And then the playoffs start cranking up at the end of the week. We start the international cricket season. Major golf, the PGA Championship is the next one on the roster. That's just in a couple of weeks' time.

48:05Championship playoff final is coming your way on May the 23rd, the final day of the Premier League, May the 24th, and that's when you can also see the Canadian Grand Prix as well. So Manchester City drop points in the title race. That is the headline this evening of pulsating 3-0 draw at Everton tonight. And now it's Arsenal's title to lose. Good night from us.

From the publisher

Dave Jones is joined by Jamie Carragher and Thierry Henry as Manchester City salvaged a point in the 97th minute to draw 3-3 at Everton in a dramatic game that puts Arsenal in charge of the Premier League title race. Carragher and Henry reflect on Nottingham Forest's 3-1 win over Chelsea in a huge boost to their survival chances.

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