Xhaka stars as Sunderland punish Barry miss after Ndiaye wonder goal

0:28This is the Sky Sports Premier League podcast. A match in which both sides will have their regrets. Some positive moments for both as well. For Everton, a brilliant goal for Milamand and Jai in the first half before he had to go through injury. And then a big moment for Granit Xhaka, his first Sunderland goal. And a player of the match display as well. And the captain on the night. But for Sunderland, they miss out on the chance to go second, but another display in which they showed they'll feel they're here to stay in the Premier League. And for Jordan Pickford, a special night on his return to Sunderland, sees his side pick up a point.

1:11The final score in the Stadium of Lights, Sunderland won, Everton won. And coming from behind yet again, Johnny Evans, might they reflect to the end of the season? That is actually a valuable point tonight. Well, it's a great point and we spoke about it before half-time. It'd be interesting to see how Sunderland come out and within a minute or two, they've got got themselves back in the game and got the equalizer yeah you've got to collect the points when you can jamie for me i thought granick shaka was absolutely fantastic again not just the goal head and shoulders above almost everybody on that pitch tonight and he gave a little mistake away towards the end and you can easily lose the game and when you think of the results this weekend you know barely you've come up uh lost leads lost it's just another little point you just keep ticking along because there will become a stage in this season and soon they can go a few games without picking points up so as I said keep ticking along and getting that point to as close to sort of 35-36 points which is almost a guaranteed staying in the Premier League.

2:10How they would have loved to have completed that comeback to get the victory which would have taken them up to second but it wasn't to be. Will they get another opportunity this season? Well they're not doing too badly are they? Fourth from 10 games, 18 points on the board, only Manchester City and Arsenal have more at this stage of the season and it is Arsenal who visit the Stadium of Lights this coming weekend. Could happen this weekend because City and Liverpool play each other. Oh yeah, that's what four clashes, yeah. I've got it all planned out. Super Sunday.

2:47Everton 14th and pleased to stop that little run of defeat, lost the last two without scoring but a good start to the game. They tailed off a little bit in the second half but an important away point perhaps five clear of the bottom three.

3:04F1 Roadshow rolls on to Sao Paulo for Grand Prix this weekend. Friday for practice, sprint on Saturday, qualifying on Saturday at 5.00. And the race itself comes your way on Sunday from 3.30 Sky Sports F1.

3:28This looks creepy. New episode every Monday, welcome to Derry It. Coming your way on Sky Atlantic. Sunderland 1, Everson 1. His first goal for Sunderland, player of the match as well, Granit Xhaka waiting to speak to us from the Stadium of Light. Congratulations, Xhaka, thank you so much, Granit, thank you so much for talking to us. What's your reflection on the result, Granit? Would you say that you're happy with the point or disappointed that you weren't able to push on and win it? Yeah, to be honest, we lost three points today in the first 20-25 minutes, in my opinion. sloppy with the ball, too many mistakes, easy mistakes.

4:13On this level you get punished. But second half was very, very good. A lot of emotions. We create many chances. With a little bit more luck we can win this game, but in the end we take one point. Granit, why do you think the team was sloppy in that initial phase then? To be honest, yesterday in the training was not our best training. and we started like we finished the training yesterday and we had a conversation between each other that on this level we need to show our standards day by day and that's why I think the first 20 minutes was not good enough and after this we came always better in the game.

4:52The last 25 minutes in the first half was much better but we didn't create many chances but second half I think that we deserve minimum of one point. That's interesting Granit that you say that about the training standards. I mean we understand that you're in there driving those standards every day at the training ground. Is this unusual for the team this season to be letting their standards slip? I believe that how you train you play. This is the old philosophy, but we had a new day today. We knew that we need to be ready from the beginning. We wasn't straight after many 20 seconds. They had a great, great chance.

5:30But yeah, in the end, we need to see the first 25 minutes what exactly happened but in the end it's not easy to play against Everton very physical team good players at the front as well very compact and but yeah in the end maybe one eye a little bit disappointed rather we can take the one point. Granit you're talking like a real leader of the team there we can see that on the pitch but before the game I described you as the signing of the season so far. You've just got the Man of the Match award as well. So from a personal point of view, what's it been like coming back to the Premier League and having such an impact at the club?

6:10Yeah, to be honest, I didn't expect to come back to the Premier League after I went to Germany. But in football, you never know where you land. And after two years in Germany, where I had a lot of good things with titles, give you a lot of confidence with a coach like Jabir Alonso, who was the same player like myself on a sixth position, who gives you many advice. You know him maybe better than me on the pitch. But in the end, to be back made me happy. I knew exactly the project from the club and to bring the experience, but as well the quality, but as well to show the guys day by day working.

6:50I hope I can help them and in the end we have one objective. This is from the beginning to the end, to give game by game, day by day everything and to see where we land in the end. Well, Granit, one of the reasons why I said you've been the signing of the season so far is because you got so many assists this season. But tonight you get the first goal. Can you talk us through it? Yeah, make me happy. Make me happy always to score and to help the team. Everyone knows I'm not the guy who will score 10 goals in a season, but I will try to give everything on the pitch, try to give them the fight, the mentality on the pitch.

7:25and yeah, the goal, of course, with a little bit of luck. But yeah, I'm very happy that I scored my first goal for this amazing football club and to help the team. Were you a little bit worried though, Granit, in the final few seconds when it looked like you might have given the ball away and had to dash back towards your own goal? Yeah, Jack is an experienced player as well and he knew exactly where I want to play the ball. But yeah, I see the action again. But great effort. If you see Noa Sadiki, Reinildo, who is sprinting back 50 metres in the 95th minute, shows how the team spirit is in this team.

8:02We are working very well during the week in the physical part as well. And yeah, to sprint in the 95th minute like this to help myself, I'm very happy that I have them. And we clocked you as well at 29.1 kilometres in that run back granite. So you've still got it in the legs as well as contributing in other areas of the pitch. How much are you looking forward to the Arsenal game on Saturday? Yes, preparing ourselves now as good as possible. We know the quality of what Arsenal has. It will be an emotional game for myself. I had seven amazing years there. I have still contact with many players, with the coach and staff.

8:41To play against them here in Sunderland, of course, is very special. and hopefully I can enjoy as well and let's see who is a better team on this day. We look forward to seeing you then. In the meantime, congratulations on tonight and thank you so much for talking to us. Thank you. Thank you. All the best, guys. There is Granit Xhaka, goal scorer, 42 seconds into the second half and player of the match tonight. Really interesting, Johnny, hearing him talk about he really wanted to make that point, didn't he, about standards? Yeah, maybe that was a message to his teammates. rather than us at home, I suppose.

9:17But, you know, it is important that you train well. You don't always get it. And you hope that maybe you do maybe have a bad session. Whether or not they had a bad session, in his mind they did. Other players might have thought we'd train well yesterday, but maybe he's making that point that we need to keep our standards up. We want to stay at the top of the league. We're talking about a player who's gone from the top level. Sunderland, they're a team who we thought we'd be fighting for the lives. They've had a great start to the season, but it is a different level of maybe mentality from the players, ability-wise as well.

9:45you've gone from Manchester United you've ended up sort of going to West Brom for a few years along with other clubs what is that drop down like is it not just quality is there a mentality shift as well there is a bit of both I think the first thing you notice is the quality and it's not nice saying that but I think when I first left Man United and I went to West Brom that was the first thing that really hit me because I suppose when you're playing against these teams they can sometimes give you a game and they can take points off you they can beat you any day but when you get the training and you see the levels, there's a big gulf between the top and the bottom and he'll be wanting to drive that.

10:23He's come from a successful team at Bayer Leverkusen and he'll be wanting to bring all those standards that he's been learning there as well and bringing them into his team. And can that work when you have this figure who, it sounds like the way he carries himself, is almost like the second manager but he's one of the players as well? Well, I think it's always helpful if you can say it, but you can also do it. And he's definitely showing that on the pitch. And he's producing good, well, top-class performances that his teammates at this moment in time, if he says something, they can't argue with him about it.

10:54Yeah, and he backs them up as well. He was very pleased with the way they covered for him in those last few minutes. Yeah, but I just want to look at his goal, I think 42 seconds into the second half. But something Johnny mentioned in the analysis before the game talking about teams who play a back five but building up in a back four when you're talking about Ruben Amaran and it was just interesting that they go in with a back five but that was without the ball when they were actually on the ball this is what the shape was a lot for Sundern so we talked about rotations a lot tonight as well and there was plenty of that to see from Sundern so you see that back four there and actually your mate who was the right wing back Traig was in the midfield yeah he's always goes into that midfield so it looks like a 4-3-3 but without the ball as I said it's a completely different formation but I was just thinking about this that we don't see it too often but do you know what that's like when you've got a striker who's permanently making runs maybe to the channels trying to get him behind you that can be tough can't he?

11:51Yeah I think from Everton's perspective here from a defensive point they maybe don't slide across with the ball as well as what they could Tarkovsky can maybe go across in this space a little bit so that Michael King can hold his position in the middle of the pitch and Tarkovsky can maybe take the channel ball. But what happens is when the ball goes in behind, Michael Cain has to follow him. And then your left centre-back almost ends up in the right-back position. So then the defence becomes a... They become a bit lost, I think, from this point of view. I mean, you look at it now, Michael Cain's kind of a right-back.

12:26He's trying to get back into his position. He could probably stay where he is. And he probably gets a little bit lost here. Tarkovsky gets lost. he starts dropping deep onto the goalkeeper is what you talked about he's probably not used to being there and he kind of percussive gets himself stuck yeah I mean

12:45Tarkovsky is a big problem in that position that is an absolute nightmare for the goalkeeper isn't he he's sort of killed him really hasn't he he's sort of made a name for himself in playing this sort of role blocking goals getting his body in the way there's lots of defenders who play in teams who defend deep and they're always trying to block things on the line or get themselves in front of things and that's what defenders should do but sometimes some defenders actually go too deep they want to be the goalkeeper don't be the goalkeeper get out of his way and we see where Tarkovsky is here now and he's actually talking to players to almost push up themselves and we were just keeping an eye on this obviously Johnny and myself both in this position but his problem is okay you stop now now okay he's found himself in there isn't he Johnny I think there's a moment sometimes whenever you get stuck a little bit as a centre back and you think how do I get out and he's on his heels and he's square and it's the worst thing he's probably thinking at what moment well you'd naturally be thinking what moment can I get up what would be the right thing to do there in that situation do you think well as the ball's facing that way you might try and squeeze up a little bit you maybe get yourself side on a little bit so you're not feeling a bit exposed square on he's found himself in that position now is the time he has to get up and he has to get up quick because he knows the Sunderland player on the ball cannot have a shot his face he's got his back to goal it's only going one way so when we just run that on slow he doesn't move now it's gone out to Xhaka now for me Tarkovsky needs to be at least two or three yards higher okay just to get out the way of the goalkeeper Is that a general rule Jamie in terms of Johnny as well if you are the last line of defender to push up all the way to the the deepest attacker you try and get up on the same line probably there's two of them there but I think for like you say sometimes you can get a little bit stuck I'm thinking to myself can he see the ball first of all maybe he's looking to see if he can see it but your first your immediate reaction is kind of try and get up but you can't It's the challenge because you probably I don't know if at this stage you're thinking about the goalkeeper and how much he can see it or are you thinking about yourself at this point?

14:51You're thinking about yourself because you're thinking well you're thinking can I get up into the line so that I can give the goalkeeper the best best just look at him so he's just coming out of the six yard box as it's coming to Xhaka but at the last minute he drops a little bit deeper again so now he goes inside because he wants to be the keeper he wants to save it now he's absolutely killed the goalkeeper there Pickford's got absolutely no chance and he gets a little deflection and it goes in and I mean you see that there but listen great from Xhaka we've seen those positions before but look at him now look he's trying to see the ball as you've said he throws his foot the keeper's got absolutely no chance and then the two of them as you can expect Jordan Pickford look get out my way let I mean I'm big on this and I've been a centre back and there's certain situations where I think Pickford's face no but as I said and I think this whenever I see a player running through on goal and a defender tries to make a tackle and brings him down and I'm like let the goalkeeper do his job that's not your job to save it the goalkeeper's job is to save it he's got his hands there you can't now he's pretty He's blameless for someone else.

16:04I mean, I've done that before. I've been in a position where I've stuck a leg out. I've also had a percentage forward through and goal, pulled him down. So, like, we're talking from the side. Would different goalkeepers command that situation differently? Would somebody be screaming at you to get out of the way? Yeah, I think so. I think you'd want to push up. But I think just with experience, Tarkovsky's an experienced defender. And he's probably just made a split-second decision. I'm going to stay and I'm going to try and block it. and it's probably not the right thing at that moment but don't forget a few weeks ago on Monday Night Football he had a situation with the handball as well and that was not exactly like that but again he is one of those defenders of course he's brilliant at defending the box but just keep an eye on him here so he heads it away and look he's deeper than everybody else again look he doesn't get up he's behind everybody again because he always wants to be that player who's making the save, who's making the block let the goalkeeper do his job now that situation there is just right down the throat of Pickford and he saves it.

16:59He would have saved that and he would have saved the one tonight. So, listen, Tarkovsky's been a brilliant defender for Everton and Everton, a lot of the time, are on the edge of the box defending and he's fantastic for them. But at times, they just get too deep and it doesn't help the goalkeeper. And two situations, both on Monday Night Football of Costa's team. Hey, what about that opening goal then from Everton tonight, Ilman Njai? They had a terrific start to the game. You heard from Granit Xhaka. He thought his own team were sloppy, but Everton could have scored a couple early on. but this is just down to his individual brilliance, isn't it, John?

17:30Yeah, we spoke about the half-time. I mean, he picks the ball up here. Sunderland think they're getting a foul. And then we spoke about his balance and the way he's dribbling. He can go either way, can't he? Either way. Sunderland players can never really get a tackle in. Do you think with that many defenders around the situation, you're almost leaving it to somebody else rather than dealing with it? No, I think Sunderland get themselves caught. They're stuck in a little bit of a deep position. so by the time when Jai starts running at them Xhaka could maybe get a toe in there and he's cutting across he's then driving into the box which is the last thing you need you almost got to make the contact outside which is probably it's like every Sunderland player the three players he's conveyed they're almost terrified you think they're going to give a foul away so they almost all just dangle a leg without really being decisive with it but that fella's a special player he is a very very very good player as I said I said half time I watched him a couple of weeks ago at Manchester City and I think in the first hour of the game he's the best player on the pitch.

18:30And you can see that some of the players Manchester City have, he's a fantastic talent. And he's Everton's top scorer with his fourth of the season which earned them a point tonight. David Moyes will give us his reaction to his return to the Stadium of Light in just a few minutes' time.

18:56Hey, it's Sophie and Will from Sky News. Too many headlines, too little time. We get it, and that's why we're bringing you Cheat Sheet. Ten minutes every weekday morning. All the big stories from politics to pop culture minus the noise. No doom scrolling, no spin, just the stories that matter from two people who live and breathe the news. Cheat Sheet with Bridget Frost from Sky News. Follow Cheat Sheet wherever you get your podcasts.

19:25This season, Sky Sports is showing even more live Premier League football. We've got at least 215 live games, including more matches on Fridays and Mondays. For the first time, all the games on the final day of the season will be live in one place. And in another first, Sky Sports can now offer multiple live matches at 2pm on many Sundays through the season. To become a Sky Sports customer, head to sky.com. For now, though, let's get back to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast.

20:03Welcome back to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast. Let's get back to the studio for more reaction to today's game. David, a point on the road, but sometimes it did look a bit frustrating for you tonight. How do you assess it overall? Well, you've answered it, really. I thought for 20, 30 minutes, I thought that I'd be disappointed if I'd gone home with a point. By the end of the game, I was pleased that we got a point from it. But, look, we miss a big chance to make it 2-0. And because we don't get that, then we just sort of sat back. And I thought it gave Sunderland a bit of confidence, gave the crowd something to get behind.

20:41And, yeah, we didn't manage really the last 15 minutes, the first half, particularly well. And we certainly didn't manage long periods of the second half that well. It was a fantastic opening period to the game, as you said. What do you feel you did right in that as well? Well, we'd done all the things we'd hoped we would do and we'd pointed the ball. It was a case of could we score and could we make enough chances. Ellie scores a brilliant goal, individual goal, but we still needed to probably try and get a few more efforts at goal. But right from the start, I think Jack hits the post, I think Jimmy Garner hits the post.

21:13So it would have been hard to say that what we'd done was wrong in that period, but I thought really when we missed the chance, We just didn't look as if we had enough probably towards the end at half-time. Then we conceded just about immediately after the kick-off. Is that a frustration? Obviously, Jeno Barry missed the opportunity. Are you still searching for that goal scorer and that finisher to make the most of these spells you get in games when you are playing so well? Goals make the difference in all the games. It can change the difference in how you feel as a manager and can change the outcome, the questions you ask me and how they go about that.

21:45But look, coming to Sunderland at the moment and getting a point is not a bad result. But after 30 minutes, I was saying, you know, we should be OK here and we should do well. But we didn't. We didn't fulfil it. So credit to Sunderland. They got much better in the second half. Was that start to the second half something that just put you on the back foot? Did it become hard to get a foot in the game after that? Look, you could say we're a bit unlucky. It's a big deflection. I mean, I don't think we particularly defend the action well. No, we don't. But it takes a deflected to go in. I don't think that his shot was going to ever trouble Jordan.

22:20But the deflection does. But that's the thing. If you shoot, sometimes you get a bit lucky. And on that occasion, they got a bit lucky. If there was something you could have done differently in that second half, would it have been in terms of the quality of your ball retention or the decision-making? I think all of that came into it. I'm struggling to pick out much positives at all on any of our football in the second half. the big positive was we didn't concede we stuck at it, resilient made sure that we didn't concede a second goal Did that overload you had at the end sum it up when you didn't even get a shot away when you had the overlap?

22:54I think we had about two or three of them just at the end and in recent times we've been pretty good when we have but it just summed up the night for me that we couldn't find that pass or that little bit of cleverness to get the goal As you suggested, you will take some satisfaction and have been able to go away from here with a point, go back home now, knowing that you've got one on the board? A little. Not as much as you want? Not as much as I wanted, no. I wanted much more and felt as if we're capable. I think we've got a good team. We've been playing quite well in games, like we did tonight.

23:25We played quite well for a period, but not long enough. Appreciate your time, David. Thank you. Good to see you. Yeah, he was happy with the first 20, 30 minutes, but plainly not with what he saw after that. What do you make of that, Jamie? I think what's going through his mind is the miss from Barry he probably won't be able to get that out of his mind knowing if they go 2-0 up they're in a great position to go on and get the three points now they weren't at the best of course they weren't in the second half but Sunderland were always going to come back into this game they've had a great start to the season they were poor first half themselves Everton were excellent and should have gone in two goals up I mean you can't miss that at this level that we're talking about and I think David Moyes and Everton have brought Barry in in the summer for 30 million he's got a good goal record I think 14 goals Clearly they haven't brought him in as the finished article No they haven't but when you've got Beto and you've got Barry and you're swapping from one game to the other and one's always come on sub for the other one because you're not happy with how they've performed and I say this a lot both of them play better when they don't play it makes you think that they're better and then you put the other one in for the next game now the big thing for Everton this season is to not be involved in a relegation scrap now they've got Fulham at the weekend before the international play it's an important game to win or definitely not to lose certainly where Fulham are right now I think Fulham will go above them if they win I look at the teams in the bottom three I look at Nottingham Forest and think they've got too many good players to end up getting relegated I think the same about West Ham in terms of I think they'll have a go in January in terms of transfer wise now I'm not saying Everton will go down I don't believe that at all but they don't want to be looking over the shoulder for the rest of the season so what I'm trying to say is Everton need to find a striker what they've got right now is not good enough and that reason alone could mean that between now and the end of the season they are looking over the shoulders in terms of staying in the Premier League so they've got new owners in obviously a lot better than what they've had before but that is the one glaring position that Everton need to fill in January they have to find somebody Does that just help take the pressure off the rest of the team if you've got someone and then sticking the ball in the back.

25:35And then I think by my maths, Sunderland had 16 of the last 17 shots in that game. But if they score 2-0 perhaps... I think if they go 2-0 up, they'll win the game. But you have to give credit to Sunderland, I think. They started the second half brilliantly and I was kind of waiting for Everton to maybe have a little go back at them once Sunderland got the equaliser. And it never came. It was all Sunderland in the second half. And, you know, like you said before, David Moyes would be gutted that he's missed that because you probably think we're 2-0 up away at Sunderland. We can see that game out, no problem.

26:07It does feel like a bit of their transfer business was with an eye to the future, perhaps bringing down the average age of the squad as well because with Everton it had been creeping up. So Barry's a young striker. Tyler Dibbling is a young player of tons of promise. There were a lot of, it felt, probably 12 months ago, there were a lot of suitors for Tyler Dibbling, but we haven't quite seen it from him yet. No, I think one of the games he started, I think David brought him off for half-time. Is that the Crystal Palace game? I think it may have been. and as you know, I was an Evertonian as a kid, so I've got all my friends and family who were Evertonians, so one of them's messaged me before, Peter McNulty, that he was not happy at all with Dibbling not coming on for Dwight McNeil in that position, so I've already had that message from them, so there's certainly frustration with the Everton supporters how much Dibbling's being used at this moment as well, and obviously Dwight McNeil's had his chance in the past, hasn't quite worked out for him at Everton, but yeah, I think David Moyes is not probably in a position right now, and he's probably got that fear at the back of his mind about Everton getting dragged in to a scrap where he's probably not in a position where he thinks okay I'll try a young player and see how he does give him the experience because they're fighting for points Peter McNulty will not be happy he's not on his evening tonight in the Jones-Carragher derby then in the Stadium of Light

27:26Thanks for listening to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast don't forget to hit follow so you don't miss an episode.