Money Travels: How Much Would You Pay to Not Wait in Line?

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1:12Hello! Welcome to Slate Money Travel. I'm Felix Salmon. I'm here with Emily Peck of Axios.

1:21Felix Salmon: Hello, hello. I'm here with Elizabeth Spires of the New York Times. Hello. We are going to talk about the amount of money that people are willing to pay for basically just like not being stuck in lines at airports, which is not just in airports. It's also on airplanes. This whole idea came to me when I was checking out, when I was buying a flight on Aer Lingus, and they were like, select your seat. And all of the seats were the same, except for the exit row. But if you ignore the exit row, all of the seats were the same. And the price of the seats ranged quite dramatically according to how close they were to the front of the plane.

2:09The ones near the front are like$65. The ones at the back are free. it doesn't even matter whether it's a middle seat or not people really want to be at the front of the plane and the reason people want to be at the front of the plane obviously is that they get off the plane more quickly they don't have to stand in the aisle waiting for the people in front of them to deplane before they get to deplane most people will probably wind up leaving the airport at basically the same time anyway because they're going to have to wait to get their bag so it's not a question of like getting to their destination more quickly it's just a question of i want to feel like i'm moving and not just standing still this is a variant of the idea that a lot of people would prefer to spend a little bit more time driving in a car along back roads and spend more time getting to their destination than sitting in traffic on a freeway where they just don't move at all for 10 minutes, even if their total journey is shorter.

3:14And the super interesting thing about the travel instance of this is that it's monetized in a bunch of different ways. Emily, I know that you have done a deep dive on Slate What's Next TBD about Clear, which basically monetizes the idea that if you don't want to stand in the TSA pre-check line, then you can stand in a clear line or no clear line and you can run to the front of the pre-check line which people will apparently pay like 200 a year for the privilege of not standing in the pre-check line there's the paying for your seats um there's you know all of the other sort of bits and pieces around like in the uk for years and years we've had this thing called fast pass where airlines will allow you to sort of skip various lines if you're in first class or otherwise a favored passenger.

4:11What do we think about this sort of monetization of not standing in line?

4:19Felix Salmon: It's really complicated. With the clear situation, it was more like it wasn't fair because this is like the government is making you go through security and this is sort of something that's mandated and something that is for the public good and you shouldn't be able to pay to sort of get around that. You're not paying to get around it. You're just paying to get there more quickly. Right. Setting that aside, because of how I don't remember the episode very well and didn't prepare, I think that it's kind of crazy how much people are willing to pay just to get off the plane faster. I think you're onto something where it's like, and I understand this because I did this the other day.

5:03Felix Salmon: There was traffic on the highway. I was driving my kid back from work and there was traffic on the highway and I'm like, let's go the long way. And the long way was definitely longer than it would have been to just sit in the traffic by like double. It was 30 minutes the long way versus probably 15 to 20 sitting in the traffic. And it was still somehow more satisfying. It's just really frustrating to sit and wait when you know you could be going. And that's never more true than when the plane has landed, yet you're not off the plane yet. It's like you're right there. Like minutes on airplanes are not the same.

5:39If you are spending a minute on an airplane that is flying at 450 miles an hour, getting you from A to B, that is a, and if you're like watching a movie or asleep or something, that is a short minute.

5:51Felix Salmon: Yes. If you are sitting on the tarmac, waiting to take off and going nowhere, that is like a medium to long minute. if you are sitting on the tarmac after you have already arrived at your destination, but you have not yet got to the gate, that is the longest minute that humanity has ever invented. Yeah, I think it's just we have all developed very low tolerance for tedious things. And I think it's all because our dopamine is totally required by doom scrolling and the internet. But as a result, you know, people, that's the reason why you take the scenic route when it's a little bit longer, completely irrationally.

6:32It's less boring for you. Well, I don't think it's irrational. I think it's rational. I think it's rational, but I am interested in the way in which airlines and airports have discovered that this is a profit center for them. This is something they can monetize.

6:50Felix Salmon: It's pretty smart. I mean, do you object to it? I feel like in the example of Clear, which I don't remember. As a good neoliberal capitalist, I thoroughly approve of this. Like if there's something that people are willing to pay for, then charge them for it. And that's the best way, that's the economically efficient and optimal way of allocating a scarce good, which is like seats near the front of the plane or whatever. If some people value them more than other people, then, then the seats near the back of the plane, then you should charge more for those seats. Well, it's also people, you know, considering convenience, a kind of luxury, you know, you have fast passes at Disneyland and amusement parks where you pay up to be able to cut the line at, you know, space mountain or whatever.

7:27I also think that in the travel specific context, one of the things that's happening is that business class prices skew the perceived value of everything else. So if you're in economy and you're paying$300 for a plane ticket and the person two rows ahead of you in business is paying$3 ,000 for a plane ticket, then suddenly you're like, well, you know, at that point, paying an extra 50 bucks to be close to the front of the plane is kind of nothing compared to the cost that it would cost me to be in business. I think it's also like stress reduction. If you have a connection to make or something like that, then you do kind of want to be toward the front of the plane.

8:13Felix Salmon: There is something really horrendous sometimes about flying coach and the humiliation of being, and I've, I've done this many times of being in like the last or second to last row of the plane, like right near the bathroom and the bathroom line. Like, it's just like, it takes away a little stitch of humanity, I think, from you. You're all scooshed in there and you see all the many, many rows of seats in front of you. And yeah, it makes sense that people would pay to avoid that experience if they could, because it is a degrading experience beyond just the frustration of having to wait while the plane...

8:52No, so I think this is actually a key insight. I remember sitting at the back of the plane with my wife once and being getting an earful of like how did we wind up in these terrible seats and and like and it's not just the amount of time it takes to get off the plane after you land there's also something about just the experience of sitting in those seats for however many hours staring at the many backs of heads and backs of seats in front of you is less pleasant for reasons that I find difficult to articulate, but it really, you do feel like the further you are towards the back, the lower you are in the sort of pecking order.

9:34Felix Salmon: It feels like being in a race and you're at the back of the race rather than in the lead. Everyone always wants to be at the front, right? Right. That's also, you know, they board people in first class first so that you have to take a humiliating walk through the nicer seats to get to your crappy seat, the back of the plane. And it's just, you know, it's marketing. They're forcing you to kind of experience the class difference. But this is also the weird thing, right? They board people in first class first because the people in first class want to be able to board first. It's a good question, right?

10:09This is my question. And the people in first class are free to not board at the beginning if they don't want to, right? They can hang out in their lounge and then just like go to the gate at the last minute, which a bunch of like frequent flyers do do that, right? They're like, why do I want to sit in the seat for any longer than I have to? I'm going to hang out with my gin and tonic, and then I'm going to go to the plane at the last minute. And that is a relatively common thing that first-class passengers do. But most first-class passengers do exactly what Elizabeth says and board at the very beginning, the minute they're allowed to board before anyone else.

10:47And, Elizabeth, why do you think that is? I don't know. I mean, maybe they just want to get themselves settled, you know, right before takeoff. I have no idea. Because it kind of cuts against this perceived notion of like wanting to get off the plane quickly, right? If you want to minimize the amount of time you spend on the plane, then you would want to board last. You wouldn't want to board first.

11:10Felix Salmon: Boarding last sucks. The feeling of waiting, you know this, like you get to the gate. I kind of like it, actually. No, you get to the gate and they're like group A. No, they're like, you know, babies and whatever, go. And then they're like, group A. And you look at your ticket, you're like, damn it, not group A. And then the group B, group C. And you're like, where are they going to pick me? And it just feels like you're a straggler and you just want to get on the plane. Like, it's just like, I want to, you know, again, you want to be first. You don't want to be last. Well, it sucks if you need to put a bag in the overhead bin.

11:43But if you're in first or business, there's always room, it seems like.

11:47Felix Salmon: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you want to sit in first class and give people snooty looks as they come by to go to the back of the bus. Oh, have you ever done that, though? It's terrible. Give people snooty looks? If you are in first class, I mean, this is totally a reason to board last if you're in first class. If you are in first class and you board first, and then all of these people kind of look at you and go, who the fuck are you sitting in first class as they pass you on their way to the shitty bucket seats in the back of the plane? Like that is not a nice experience. I understand, I guess. I would like to have the experience.

12:26Felix Salmon: I understand that it may feel badly in some way because of the hate that you receive. And that is why the rich live in gated communities, et cetera. This is why everyone should always just fly on all business class airlines. Isn't that more expensive? No, all business class airlines are cheaper per business class seat than normal airlines. Got it. Aren't airlines like probably more than any other industry sort of like on their game when it comes to monetizing these kinds of things, like monetizing ticket prices and seating prices and figuring out how to sort of… relative and basically, you know, monetizing the idea of relative status, right?

13:13It's all about relative status and people want to feel better than other people. And if you, if you're at the back of the plane, you feel worse than other people and you're willing to pay to feel better than other people. And absolutely. And it, it must be said, we, we, I really should mention here that most flyers are sensible normal people who realize how ridiculous this is and do not pay the extra right the the expensive extra seats near the front are a minority of the seats and that you know the basic economy fares that don't even allow you to pick your seats are very popular because you get to save money and who doesn't mind saving money you know so like most flyers i think are quite sensible about this and they're like you know i get to the exact same destination as the person in first class who's paying a hundred times more than me and so i'm getting a bargain and i do not need to play dumb status games with a bunch of people i will never see again but there is a substantial minority of people who the airlines have worked out they can extract this money from for basically nothing it costs them nothing to like charge extra for the certain seats.

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17:43Felix Salmon: people are paying do you think that restaurants will ever cotton on to a strategy like this like everyone oh this oh my god such a good crook such a good question and we've talked about this on the pod i can't remember if it might possibly have predated your arrival on onto the shores of slate money but there was a company called tock that was famous for charging different amounts for reservations at different times or saying that like saturday reservations cost more than monday reservations and there are sort of secondary markets in restaurant reservations where clearly some reservations are more valuable than others and every year or so someone rediscovers this fact that people want to eat on certain nights and at certain times of day more than other places And so therefore, there should be a price differential.

18:32And then every year, there's someone writing an article about it saying, this doesn't seem fair. And then someone else talks about blue plate specials. The discourse around charging different prices at different times for restaurants is a very stale discourse at this point. But it is very closely related to this question of charging for being able to jump the line at pre-check.

18:57Felix Salmon: But I'm talking about charging more for better seats in the restaurant. Like everyone wants the booth or the corner table or whatever, or the table that's not right next to the bathroom or whatever. Charge more for that. Charge more for the restaurant real estate as you charge more for the plane real estate. Yeah, because this is standard in concerts, right? It's all about which seat. A good seat can cost 10 times more than a cheap seat. so why why not apply the same logic to the grill room at the four seasons yeah exactly well i think informally that probably does happen if you have big spenders who come back and you know the staff knows who they are they allocate the best seats to those people they put you right in the middle so everyone can see your fancy self or whatever yes oh my god i was i was just at a fancy restaurant on the Upper East Side and a bunch of well-heeled, slightly older Upper East Side diners came in and were seated at the restaurant right in the middle and complained more than once to the maitre d' about being sat at the table in the middle and were like, we want the booth around the outside.

20:12Everyone wants to be around the outside. People don't actually like being in the middle.

20:15Felix Salmon: You want to, you always want to be in the booth. You want to be able to people watch. And it's hard when you're in the middle of the room. Like you can't just turn around. Plus you feel like you're on stage, I think. And everyone's like looking at you or something. When they're not, they're looking at the food or whatever. Or the famous person in the restaurant in the case of a fancy restaurant. Yeah, it's true. These four people were definitely on stage and everyone was looking at them and going, oh my God, I can't believe they're complaining about their table allocation. but yeah i mean i i would expect more algorithmic pricing or the kind of pricing we're seeing on the plane in other places right because of ai do i think the reason we don't see it in other places is just because there's something there's this kind of air of unreality when it comes to travel where money ceases to have any meaning.

21:06I think this helps to explain why there are so many luxury goods stores in airports. Why in every single crappy Pisan airport in a fourth-tier city do you see a whole row of Prada and Gucci and Hermes and Valentino and everything? It's because people are just, their mind is in a different zone and money doesn't have the same meaning that it otherwise does. And they're like, oh, it's only$125 to get a seat closer to the front of the plane? Sure, why not?

21:38Felix Salmon: You're spending a lot. Why not? Yeah. Yeah, I buy that. It's like the lack of oxygen. You lose your fiscal faculties. Have we therefore come to the conclusion that all of this on a consumer level is kind of irrational? And that if we were true, say, and enlightened folks, we would never pay these surges? I think your time is your money. I think if you can spend money to save time, that's generally good because your time is valuable and precious on this earth. But to my point, right, let's say you're checking your bag and like the time you leave the airport is going to be the same, whether or not, you know, wherever on the plane you sit.

22:22So the question then becomes, how much do you value being at the baggage reclaim waiting for your bag to come out rather than on the plane waiting to deplane? Right.

22:34Felix Salmon: It's like, which is more uncomfortable? And I think judging by the demeanor of people, when you land in an airport, especially if it's one of the New York city airports where everyone stands up immediately, even though, you know, it's going to be another 10 minutes and they're all just standing up. And it's just like the anxiety in the air is thick around you. And it's so uncomfortable that it is probably better to wait at the bag claim than it is to stand there in the crowd. Oh, for sure. And by the way, my whole thing is I am totally someone who stands up immediately to the point at which I really, really hate being in any window or middle seat.

23:14And I would rather be in an aisle seat at the back rather than a window seat at the front because I want to be able to stand up immediately. Do not ask me why I want to be able to stand up immediately, but it's really important to me to be able to stand up. And I feel like I've reached displaced now and I can stretch my legs and I'm not cramped and I'm about to get up and even if I stand there for 15 minutes it's better than sitting down do not ask me why Elizabeth do you stand immediately no I mean I sometimes do if I'm in the aisle and I know I need to get a bag out of the overhead bin but I'm also short so I don't have to like hunch over if I'm in the window seat

23:54Felix Salmon: I usually stand immediately. I have no patience. Do you think to yourself that you're being irrational, or do you think that there's a reason why you do that? I kind of feel bad. I think I'm being irrational. And I know it's a little bit annoying, and I'm just in the way of things, you know? And make the person next to me feel anxious by standing, I think. When you took the scenic route home in the car last week, did you feel like you were being irrational? Towards the end. Because when I got to my end point, I noticed that the traffic wasn't even that bad on the other route because it's like a side-by-side road.

24:26Felix Salmon: And I was like, what am I doing? Like, this is ridiculous, you know, or every time, because the slower route had more red lights. So every time I stopped a red light, I was like, this is so stupid, you know? So yeah, I was conscious of the irrationality all along. Makes it worse. There's no winners here. I have to say, I'm kind of proud of the airlines and the airports for being able to identify and monetize a rationality. Like that's what capitalism is all about. That's true. On which note, I think we will wrap it up for this episode of sleep money travel. Thanks for listening. Thanks for emailing us on sleep money at sleep.com.

25:09Thanks to Shana Roth for producing. And we will be back on Saturday with a regular sleep money.

25:23Felix Salmon: Hi, this is Paige from Giggly Squad, and today's episode is brought to you by McDonald's. Honestly, Caesar sauce and a Diet Coke at McDonald's might be the perfect girl dinner. And McCrispy strips dipped in Caesar sauce? No notes. Right now at participating McDonald's, the$2.99 Caesar snack wrap is making me rethink my entire go-to order. Caesar sauce is at participating McDonald's for a limited time, so go try it before it's gone. Prices and participation may vary. As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team, and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day, it's the vanishing act.

26:03It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears. We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle, so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT &T Business. Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com.