Amy Polly - Why We Need A Mental Health Rebellion

0:01I am so glad you could join us. I'm your host, Mo Gaudet This podcast is nothing more than a conversation between two good friends sharing inspiring life stories and perhaps some nuggets of wisdom along the way This is your invitation to slow down with us Welcome to Slow Mo

0:34Welcome back. Today I am filming from the apartment of one of my dear friends, Kevin, who is also known to me as Mr. Addison. As in The Matrix, he's the one, if you think about him, he's the kindest human I know who's ever been a banker. And he spent his entire life as a banker, but yet he's amazing in so many ways. We had a plan to go to a Roger Waters concert back in June, where he failed to meet the plan. He bought the tickets, though. And so I ended up going with a plus one that was recommended by our two other friends, who turned out to be a wonderful human being, such a wonderful coincidence.

1:22The first time she met me, she knew of me. And so when she hugged me, she said, oh, my God, you smell so good. And I have to say, that must have been the best compliment I have ever received. Honestly, I felt, how does one be so open about their emotions? It's really wonderful. Then I asked her, what do you do? And she said, I founded Mental Health Rebellion. And I said, what does that mean? And she said, well, I was in the corporate world for a very long time. time and with all the success, I felt I needed more and I couldn't do it. So I started to do it, to teach people how to do it when they are occupied in this very busy life by allowing them to curse while they meditate.

2:12I said, you have to be on my podcast. My guest today is Amy Polly. Amy trains those of us who are busy in life to find a path to peace. Her personal story is actually quite common, though very, very rarely admitted to. She took her from depression to calm and peace, to teaching others how to get there. One of my new but wonderful, wonderful friends. I hope you'll enjoy this conversation with Amy Polly. there you are i spilled the beans everyone knows it was a great concert it was thank you for being so kind and it was also i should say in the introduction that you did not know about pink floyd and roger waters before you came to the concert my education has started yeah we all do sins in life.

3:11So I hope you've repented by now. Yes. Yeah. A good fan of Pink Floyd? Good. So, oh, she's not, probably, but she's unable to lie. It was a very interesting experience because I have to admit, Amy, that you represent to me a lot of paradoxes that I adore about the feminine. I asked you midway through our conversation what you did in the corporate world, and you said finance and accounting. And yet you're a total rebel, total rebel. You come across as a very jolly and happy and playful and fun person, but you said that you were going through a deep depression at a point in time. And I think those paradoxes really make a human who they are, but they also, I think, position us in an interesting way to hide.

4:05But you don't hide. You just are out there talking about all of it. So maybe tell the story to the rest of the world, not just to me, of what got you to where you are. Okay. Where even to begin? Yes, good point. I think where I will begin is, I'll just do a little bit of the sort of work life slightly, because I know that's where everybody always goes, and that doesn't make a person, but I think it's just an important little piece of the journey. So I did well in school. I wanted to make my parents proud and when the option to go to university arose I did not want to leave my family. I didn't want to go to university even though everybody else was doing it and I just had a really lovely conversation with my mum.

4:54I stood in the living room, I remember it still now and said I don't want to go, what shall I do? And she said you can do anything you want to do and I enjoyed this business course and I said to her I've really enjoyed doing this I've been doing like secretarial studies business admin and she just went but you could be the person who has that admin like why don't you think about accountancy or solicitor or a career path and I just went okay that was that's what I did I wrote a letter to the local accountancy firm got onto their training program uh straight away and that was my career for 19 years um but my final Well, I know that you say I don't seem like an accountant, by the way, but I think that's where the rebellion started, because I really prided myself on being just me.

5:38And I've told you this story before, but I had a pink car. I used to turn up to a million pound audits in my pink car. And it's not like I don't care. It's just that I can't not be me. And what happened was that invites other people to be them. and so is it really I'm sure everyone in the audit would go like should we trust her trust her judgment on this audit I promise it just opened the doors for people to be honest if they needed some help so my clients would want me to to teach them things in a simple way that's what I did when I was an accountant and that's what I do as a mindfulness teacher I just simplify things I just make it relatable for you we don't have to do everything in the same way all of the time and anyway fast forward my final role before I left corporate was with the fire service and your reason for getting up in the morning my reason for getting up in the morning changed I wasn't working for someone's bottom line anymore I was in service to people and I absolutely bloody loved it and so I think that set me on the path of realizing that actually it wasn't spreadsheets that lit me up lit me up inside it was people but I think all the way through my career I just always felt like I was making a little bit of a difference I was improving things even if even if it was businesses and accounts and and then when I was in the fire service I got the opportunity to work in employee engagement I then got the opportunity to work in mental health and well-being and that just solidified everything for me that this is what I should be doing my mindfulness journey had started for me personally and it all just started to come together and I just realized that I didn't want to sit at a desk creating spreadsheets and accounts, I wanted to go and share with people what I had learned through my mindfulness journey, through my mental health journey.

7:21And so I just thought, that's what I'm going to do. So I left my 19 year career. And was there a moment like you woke up one day and said, that's it, not doing this anymore? Not quite, almost. There was a moment whilst I was still in corporate that I went to a mindfulness for managers session, a day session in a hotel with a guy in a grey suit regurgitating mindfulness to us and I'd already started practicing. That's horrible. Look, if you had never done anything like that before, it was okay. But I just sat there and I think that was a catalyst. I think that lit something in me because I'd already been practicing and I'd been sort of supporting my mum through depression.

8:03And as I sat there, I thought, he's just not quite getting it. And when I left, I thought I could do that. And so something, obviously, there was that little ignition, like, you know, something just ignited. And then over the next couple of years, I kept thinking about it. I started studying a bit more. I started to do my diploma in mindfulness and meditation. And then after COVID, after, you know, deciding to split with the father of my child and having been through COVID and just realising, really realising that life is too short. That had the moment when I just thought, I'm sitting here and I don't want to do this.

8:40I'm staring at a laptop and I don't want to do what I'm doing. So I'm not going to do it anymore. So many people go through life that way, Amy. So I know you reasonably well now. We spent many hours together, not many days yet, but I hope we will. And you really are not the kind of person that can be sat on a desk to do accounting, honestly. Right? I mean, say yes, right? Yes. But you did it for 19 years. So how do we end up in that trap of waking up every morning? I mean, with all due respect, 19 years is quite a big chunk of one's life. Of your adult life, it's almost 70 % of your adult life, right?

9:23In a very interesting way, we get stuck in that. And day one is a little scary, day two is a little stressful. And then suddenly you find that you're at day 17 ,140. and 40, what happened with my life? How do you wake up every morning and do something that is so opposite to who you are? So I actually think that now sort of forgetting about the corporate career and thinking about my personal journey, I have that real desire in me to make my parents proud and to do that thing, which is where I started. You know, I was going to do this job and I was going to study and I was going to qualify and I was going to progress.

9:58And that is where it started, which I suppose is sort of a normal desire to have. And you think, we're on this track aren't you finish school you get a job and blah blah but what happened for me personally was when I was going through a period of stress so this was way before I joined the fire service this was this was way before um I was in industry this was my sort of origin story for finding mindfulness I was going through a period of stress in my relationship at the time the work that I was doing and I as you do go on a certain search engine in the middle of the night and find ways that I can sleep better because my sleep was affected I'm sure a lot of people know that and have experienced that um when you stress out you you don't fall asleep very well and you don't sleep very well and I stumbled across mindfulness meditation and within two nights two or three nights of putting on a meditation to help me fall asleep within a week I started to feel that I was sleeping better I just thought well this is bloody amazing I need to know everything about it so I bought the book and I signed up to a course and you know blah blah blah on that journey this this self-awareness is what I feel has carried me through life now for me to be able to make these decisions that are good for me because as you say we're on autopilot a lot of the time we're just going through we're just doing that job but I started to cultivate this self awareness so then I got to a point where I can't ignore the impact this is having on me I'm very self-aware and as that journey starts we can get very deeply spiritual as you start to realize these things I'm like the gateway drug to get there but when you start that journey you can't ignore what feels wrong and uncomfortable when you're on autopilot and you're just getting through the days it's so easy to do that but when you start to be more self-aware when you start to be aware of the world around you when you start to know yourself and when you start to realize your desires or the things that you don't like it's really hard to ignore that actually and that's the point that I got to I couldn't ignore that anymore so I did it for a long time and it still took me a little while to to take the jump because change can feel scary right but then when you do it like you say you take one foot out and then you back in again I started to do like a bit of a side hustle as they say and I started to experience what it was like and I really enjoyed it and so then I started to do a bit more but every time you go outside of that comfort zone and you do something that you really feel in your heart and your gut that you should be doing even if it's uncomfortable it's like bloody amazing and you want more of that and then you can't sit back in the chair at the desk in the whatever that is for you that comfort zone and that's what I did it all stemmed from that self-awareness that mindfulness that practice just trying things a little bit differently.

12:42I'm actually reflecting on this very differently. I mean, I'm not shy to always talk about my personal life on slow-mo. And something that has not worked perfectly well for me over the last, you know, since my separation with my wonderful ex is love and romance, where I get to meet wonderful women who are really a blessing in every possible way, but it just doesn't work out. and you know it's interesting as you describe it that I feel it's not a comfort zone at all because it's not a very comfortable feeling at all falling in love and breaking your heart and falling in love and breaking your heart but in a way you get systemically drawn back into okay that one didn't work maybe if I get I find if I find one in blue it will be better or you know maybe if I find one that speaks a different language you know and to me it was so eye-opening So I did a nine-month monkhood, my own definition of being a monk, if you want, because, you know, I wasn't wearing robes.

13:41I wasn't in a... Oh, you rebel. Exactly, little rebel me. But I do that with everything. I do that with my silent retreats and so on. I have one coming up. And it's really, to me, is, you know, I think that the practice is designed for a lot of benefits, but that I can distill it down to my own needs at the time and take, you know, the parts of the practice that fit that benefit. And it was probably one of the best experiences of my life. It was so eye-opening, but also so almost rejuvenating. It was like, oh my God, there is another way to live, right? And, you know, I'm just out of a breakup with a wonderful, wonderful human being, but sadly, you know, it didn't work out.

14:32And in my current thinking, the first thing I think about is, okay, you know, back to the normal, out of the comfort zone, into the comfort zone, out of the comfort zone, into the comfort zone. And suddenly I'm saying, no, there must be other ways of living. And I think most people don't get that chance unless they're sort of literally kicked into it, if you know what I mean. You were kicked into that because you had a very serious depression heading into COVID. Can you tell us a little bit about that? So actually, what I'm talking about now is my postnatal anxiety, which it does differ slightly to depression, but it's still linked to maternal mental health, which I think isn't talked about enough.

15:22That's why I talk about it. enough at all. No. And I hadn't even heard the term postnatal anxiety. And it is the hardest thing that I've ever done becoming a mother, even though I'd wanted to be a mum for my whole life. I always knew that I wanted to be a mum. And then when it happened, it completely knocked me for six because it wasn't what I expected. And I really struggled. And when even just from the birth, which was traumatic in itself because it didn't quite go to plan. I didn't have that magical moment that everybody talks about. It was the best thing that ever happened to me. It was so magical and I absolutely did not feel like that for me.

16:05And that moment after giving birth, it doesn't last long until you are home now with a small life to look after, with no instruction manual all these hormones ranging in your body a complete lack of sleep and I just did not handle it I just could not handle it and considering that I was quite away on with my mindfulness journey my self-awareness you know I'm thankful actually that I had that because I was very aware that I was not okay hence I could ask for help I think about people who don't have that or don't have people that could help them that makes me really sad because it is categorically the hardest thing I've ever done and that postnatal anxiety stopped me from doing things that I would normally do and I guess when you've been through something like that it makes you feel like when I feel okay I want to grab life by the tips is what I always say with my friends because honestly it was awful and when it's something as well around you know having a child that should should be you know the most amazing thing in the world.

17:09And it isn't. And I know so many that when I've opened up, they have shared their story as well, that it also wasn't this magical, amazing thing. And it was really bloody hard. So that we have to bring this to the surface. So I actually think that most women really struggle, most mothers really struggle. And there is somehow that pressure that you have to show up in front of your mother-in-law and in front of society and say, oh look at the gift and the blessing I have been given. No I said to some of my best friends when I was struggling because I am such an open person anyway I would explain what was going on and a couple of my best friends said to me who already had children a bit older I was a bit later in the group oh yeah I really felt that but you know you just get on with it don't and I was thinking why is everybody just getting on with it and not talking to each other because maybe I wouldn't have felt so alone in the beginning or that this is so because it's actually not strange to struggle when you take a baby home we need to have more support for this time in our life that is such a huge change and we don't and people I think are talking about it a bit more now but how is it that some of my best friends haven't told me that they were struggling because it's not only that they're not struggling they have to pretend yes that it's amazing brave face yeah Yeah.

18:29I mean, I have to say openly when, you know, when I had my Ali, my first child and people were like, oh, hold it. I was like, I'm not going to be able to. Like, I'm really scared. I really was. He was so fragile. And I'm a freaking manly man who at the time was quite athletic. And I was like, I'll break it. Like, seriously, I'll break it. And people would go like, train me, people. Teach me something. Don't just tell me to do it, right? So this is a very serious, I believe, one of the very serious reasons for unhappiness, I think, in marriages and relationships and for women, right? So can you just list very quickly in your mind, you said hormones raging, pressure of responsibility.

19:19the experience itself wasn't was a bit traumatic like birth and so on and it didn't go as smooth as it is what other reasons would cause a woman to be struggling in that stage the thing is i don't think we always have to know why someone is struggling we just need to know that they are because it is really hard to articulate that sometimes i still actually struggle sometimes to articulate why that is because the rational part of me could completely explain that there's nothing to be worried about but that anxiety that I felt at the time when I was crying over making a bottle and shaking because I was terrified of doing something wrong and the baby being poorly because I hadn't sterilized the bottle properly or whatever how how can I rationally tell you why why that was happening I do you see what I mean I think that it's important for people to know there isn't always a why is this happening i do think that the raging hormones is is is absolutely a valid reason we've just been through so much change then we come home we don't have an instruction manual we have no offense to the guys in the room or but the partner that hasn't been through the birth or those changes sometimes can't understand it so and we're not very good And we're not very good at communicating sometimes as humans.

20:38So I don't necessarily think it matters the reason why. I think it's what we actually do with the situation that we've got. What did you do? So communication was the first thing. I had to notice that I was struggling, which I was pretty good at. And then I had to tell someone that I was struggling. So my mum was there and my partner was there. And I even said sometimes, I don't know exactly why I feel like this, but this is how I feel. I feel terrified. I feel exhausted and I just don't feel okay. And I don't always need an answer, but you just need to know there is someone there with you so that if you do drop the buck that someone's going to help you out.

21:19So that was the first thing. The second thing was I had therapy. I don't think there's any shame in having therapy. I think sometimes you just need to talk to someone. I had RTT, rapid transformational therapy as well, which really helped because if I felt a change in that after I'd had that and I was able to then go to the coffee shop with my granddad who passed away soon after if I hadn't have done that I might not have had coffee with my baby and my granddad you know so I think that's the thing is asking for help but it has to start with that it's okay to do that and it's not just talking it's you know it's action do you know what I'm trying to say and it starts with that self-awareness So self-awareness, communication, asking for help, that action.

22:03You can't just keep doing the same thing all of a sudden. We need to do something different. Because I could have wallowed in that. I could have really let that take me. And it happens. I know so many people that will come to me 15 years later and say, since the day we had children, it hasn't been the same. We had not been close as partners. We had not been able to. And it happens way more often than I'd like to believe it that it does. but it does. And then we layer on that blaming ourself. I mean, in mindfulness teaching, we talk about self-compassion. It's so important because then we blame ourselves or we blame the other person.

22:39And compassion is so important that, you know, for us to be able to talk and to say, we're in this together, even just as human beings, not even just with your partner, but we're in this together. How can we do this better rather than it being a fight all the time, whether that's a fight with yourself and your own mind or a fight with the person in the room or whatever. I just think there is a lot to be said for actually having that compassion for yourself. You're going through a tough time. Things are not working out. Let's not layer on, you know, beating yourself up and shame and guilt and all that.

23:08Let's try to help each other, help yourself and help each other. We just don't seem very good at that sometimes. We'll come back to this, but let me switch to your other life as well, because we don't seem to be very good at having someone who's living the stressful corporate life actually find calm piece at all. You know, when you and I were chatting about this, you basically said we're teaching mindfulness the wrong way for the audience that we're teaching it to. So what is the wrong way? What do you think is the right approach? Okay, so I'm just going to have to say Mo, because I don't want to offend anyone.

23:42It's not a right and wrong way. It's just that if you have been on your own journey, and then you decide to teach, quite often, you forget how far along your journey that you are and that that place is a very hard place to begin and so I think what we see in a lot of media and social media is there are no problems when you're present only peace you know these little quotes that you see there was even like a tv advert that said something about sometimes you can't be quiet and mindful or something like that or that you know there are no traumatic events only the way you think about them and I'm not saying that there isn't an essence of truth in some of those things.

24:20I'm just saying that if you're over here in a really shitty situation, is that going to really help someone? I get that quite a lot, actually. So when I speak about, you know, it's not, you know, the events of life that stress you, it's the way you deal with them that does. And I explain exactly that you could deal with them differently. I have never done a post around something like that without people saying, well, I get it. I think you're right, but I don't know how, right? It's so different when you're in it and you've done it for many years and your neuroplasticity has changed and you're really good at it.

25:02When you tell it to other people, they go like, what are you talking about? It's like going to someone and saying, it's very easy to make a car. No, it's not. If you're a mechanic and you've fixed a few cars in your life, you know how, but if you haven't, you don't have a clue. No. And, you know, we have all been in really shitty, tough situations. I have. We all have. We learn about things as we go along. We know some of these. No one's telling lies. By the way, I just should stop you now. I think you've already been granted the maximum number of swears on the show ever. Did I just swear again?

25:45Yeah, you've done three so far. And you had a very good variety. I think there was a couple of fucking, you know, shit. I was a bollocks, yeah. Yeah, but yeah, well done. So you have now the Guinness World Record. And you just slide them in so they don't feel offensive, honestly. But yes, go ahead. So now you're the winner. You don't need to do more if you don't. Thank you. If you are just hitting for the title. I do like a gold star. Thank you very much. But, you know, feel free to be yourself. We'll count at the end. Everybody is going through something. And I think that this is the thing for me, particularly.

26:19Some shitty thing you mentioned. Shitty thing, yeah. Yes, okay. If you are going through. And if you are in the corporate world, like if you're in the corporate world, if you're in a stressed out situation, if you are in a situation that feels painful, I teach, I understand the difference between pain and suffering, the first arrow and the second arrow. Totally get that. But it's really, I nearly did another swear word then. It's really invalidating to hear you're basically causing your own suffering. Even though we know that that is true, that can be really unhelpful at the time. And I've worked with a lot of different people.

26:54I volunteer for my local mental health charity. So I'm working with people that are in suffering. you have to get them from the beginning of the journey and you have to remember where you're at I'm down here but I bring I keep bringing myself back to the beginning because that's where most people are when I'm dealing with them in a corporate environment when I go into organizations and speak or teach or if I'm going into schools or if I'm at the mental health charity I have to be at the beginning with them and that's why I guess I say the rebellion it's not like there's a wrong way it's just that the floaty dresses and the mountaintops and the clouds and the rainbows and the calm you know um it that's not all that mindfulness is about yeah mindfulness is an awareness awareness of what is going on in you and around you and it's it's a practice of curiosity i like to bring in some playfulness but you can't get someone to that place without starting where they're at and that's what i love i love love to do and i've watched it so many times it's happened for me in my own life and I've watched it happen for other people and I absolutely bloody love it but but for me a lot of the time mindfulness is distilled down into meditation mindfulness isn't just meditation or you know you have to have a baseline personality of calm and you have to be in a certain place at a certain time and it's all about emptying your mind that's another a bullshit thing and your voice has to be different and yeah you have to be a little don't give me one when i when i lead a meditation i am completely in the zone and you know i i've been told that i have a lovely voice in meditation people like listening to them but we will be the judge but when you're teaching and interacting with people you have to understand your audience and it makes me sad to think that people are not going to get the power of this and i want them to so I'm going to do it my way and it's a little bit different.

28:47How different is it? I think I was thinking about obviously I knew that I was coming to speak to you and I was thinking about this I feel like I've just had that I say rebellion or rebellious it's not even that it's just embracing being a bit different and whatever that means to you but when it comes to teaching mindfulness I just think that it turns people off if you are not honest with them if you are not realistic and my honest and realistic is this you can still say and shit you can get angry you can get upset you can be emotional you can think things in life are really really bad but you can still have a mindfulness practice you can still help yourself you can still have this proactive care for your mental health you do not have to be calm all the time you do not have to sit cross legged you do not have to be spilling your guts to everybody especially in the corporate world just to say to someone, I know you might think this is bollocks, but you're here now, let's give it a go.

29:46And usually people are like, oh, okay. If I'm allowed to be me, I can listen really, right? Yeah. This is a very, very interesting way of putting it because I always thought that what turned me off, and I actually stand corrected because what you said is probably a lot more elinquent than the way I would say it is. What would turn me off is that sometimes those who assume the position of teaching are actually not qualified to teach. So they wear the persona. So they have the white fluffy dress and they have the Californian voice and they're speaking at the tempo that is slower than the rest of us.

30:31And in my mind, and I have to admit, and I apologize, that I was judgmental. I was saying, if you're assuming the persona, then there is a bit of ego in it. And if there is a bit of ego in it, then you might not be qualified to teach yet. But the way you say it is actually quite beautiful and much more forgiving, I think. Because you're saying, we are at different stages of the spectrum, right? And some of us will start from a very angry place and along the way, hopefully to reach Buddhahood someday, along the way you become calmer and calmer. And that when you're calm and dealing with someone who's angry, you're really not very effective at all.

31:18Because they can't see themselves in you. They can't see themselves in you. They can't connect with what you're talking. Yeah. That's really a beautiful way of saying it. And even now, I mean, you've hung out with me a bit and you say, even though I'm high energy and excitable, there is an underlying calmness there because I've been practicing for years. But I think it's really important for people to know that I am still an imperfect human being. I think often that, and probably I've even been through moments of this where I feel like I have to portray a certain thing, you know, that you see.

31:49It just didn't feel right to me. The whole white dress and it just didn't feel right. I just had to be me. And I think that that is what I've run with. I've run with this thing of I am not perfect. I'm far from perfect. But I found something that has changed my life, changed my outlook in life. It has helped me through some really difficult times. And I want other people to have that. I want that so, so much. and I think with the mental health speaking that I do and going into organizations and talking about that story we know that suicide is one of the we're in a situation basically where we we cannot ignore the statistics 100 and when we're talking about mental health we have to realize that there is a different way to do things and if we think about those who are most likely to take their own life it is men between the age of something like 25 and 45 so how are we getting to those people it's not going to be someone turning up even if they could if it is completely honestly them turning up like you say we're just going to arrive we're just going to arrive which is I've experienced that but for some people that's beautiful and lovely and they are in that place to to walk into a room and say we're just going to take a few moments to arrive but there's going to be some people that need me to come in and say hi here's you know my slide has got an emoji of a poo on it and and and things like that and just do it a bit differently does poo count as curse does that make sense does that make sense what i'm trying to say we have to get to the people that need the help and so that means different things because you can't help all of the people all the time you can't do one size fits all i'm not going to be everyone's cup of tea that's absolutely fine but i know that there are people that need me as my friends call me the gateway drug, who want to get on that, who needs some help.

33:39Mindfulness isn't this woo-woo spiritual thing. It's bloody awesome. I love it. And anybody can do it. And that's what I want people to understand. Everybody can do it is a very interesting way. One thing that I have to say, I spoke to you on the times we met about that idea of the paradoxes that you are, right? So in a very interesting way, when you let yourself be vulnerable, or when you let yourself say, I'm not perfect, or when you let yourself say, this is stupid, or whatever that is, in a very interesting way, compared to the personas that the world imposes on us, you're almost telling some of your corporate clients, I'm not qualified, because that's not what they're looking for.

34:21They have a very specific persona in mind for the person that's going to come and save them, right? Or at least that's going to come and tick the box on we've done, you know, well-being in the corporate, right? How do you balance that? You know, the idea of, yeah, by the way, I'm not perfect. And yes, by the way, I get angry sometimes. And yes, by the way, I struggle as a human. And yes, by the way, I'm on my journey too. But I have something to give you. Aren't we all? Isn't that everyone? But it's, you know, it's a world of fake it till you make it. But I am really good at my job and I am really good at teaching.

34:56Just because I'm honest about the fact that I'm not perfect doesn't mean I'm not going to do a good job. Yeah, it just takes a very rebellious spirit to actually say, I don't care what you think of me. This is me. This is how it is. And yeah, by the way, if you want me to help, I will. But it's not what most people will do. most people will just wear the dress code. I have been there. I know I haven't mentioned my age yet, but I'm nearly 40. So it's not like I'm still learning. Who does that on a podcast? We should don't edit this out, guys. Just actually play it twice. All right. No, no. Let's put it in the in the intro.