Angela Ahola - 100 Dates and How to Improve your Dating Game

0:01I am so glad you could join us. I'm your host, Mo Gaudet This podcast is nothing more than a conversation between two good friends sharing inspiring life stories and perhaps some nuggets of wisdom along the way This is your invitation to slow down with us Welcome to Slow Mo

0:34Welcome back. We continue today on our series of love and romance. Coming to an end, actually, we've covered quite a few angles of the topic, but today's guest came to my attention through one of our listeners who pointed my attention to a book called 100 Dates, a psychologist that kissed a hundred frogs. We, men, are frogs, just so that you don't have to. And I thought that was really a wonderful experience. My guest today is Angela Ahola, who is a Swedish psychologist, a PhD in psychology, who through her personal life experience decided to document, if you want, that process of dating that puzzles so many of us.

1:16She found out quite a bit about what chemistry is, which dates work, which dates don't, what pictures get swiped on and what don't, and quite a bit about that very complex puzzle that we call dating. I immediately reached out to Angela and she was so kind to give me her time today. So we're going to have a conversation about a hundred of her dates so that perhaps we can save you a few dates. Angela, thank you so much for your quick reply and for being here. It's such a wild experiment, I have to admit. What made you think of that? Well, it turned out I became single after a long relationship a marriage and after a while i just started getting the inspiration back again it took well it took a while before i got it but once i again became more open and more interested and a bit less sad i just thought how long did that take you oh well months but not years not too much i know of people that take a lifetime yeah i know i know yeah i just started one date at a time so the goal was not 100 in the beginning but after a while i just realized i'd been on so many dates i might as well keep going this is a very interesting idea what is the date in your definition a date could be uh taking a walk together a date could be a cup of tea or a three course dinner a date could be it can be very simple but it can be but it always has this goal of meeting up and evaluate if there is some kind of romantic feelings any of the hundred dates got a second date or did they all suck oh yeah many okay i counted and do you want to know how many yeah actually 22 get more than one date so you you counted everything right this is the beautiful yes yes but 22 more than one date uh did any of the 22 get to enjoy being with you for a short while yeah it's but it's finding love And finding a true match and a truly good person, it's not the easiest.

3:42And I really understood that while dating and going on dates. Well, of course, if we put the bar on the level that's, I guess, not healthy for anybody, then we can find somebody and some kind of match. But I kept going. Yeah. So let's align on this first, because this is the first time you and I discuss this conversation, this topic. So I am a huge believer that dating is a bit of an economic problem, where if you buy the wrong car, it's not easy to sell the car without a bit of loss and then buy another car. And similarly, if you end up converting a date into a relationship, this is not a process that takes a day or a week.

4:27This is a process that normally would take a very long time if the person is the wrong person. Right. And so what really attracted me to the concept of 100 dates, the book, is that is the idea of not getting to 100, but rather the idea of refusing to be with someone 100 times in a row. right to have 100 candidates show up some of them qualify for a second date 22 of them as you said but not none of them qualified to be the one right that is a very very interesting approach to dating in my view it's actually the top reason why people end up not finding the one is because they get stuck with the wrong one right so when you were going out there your objective was not to research the book your objective was to actually find someone yes and and so you could have ended up finding that person and date 48 and the book would have been called 48 dates yes okay so so so let me begin by asking why did those who didn't qualify for a second date in your of you not qualify first of all some of the people i met uh hadn't the goal of love-based relationship it could be more temporary encounters that's like i'm referring to what people are looking for the goal yeah that's one of the things another thing could be that i didn't feel like i could be myself around some of the people like i couldn't be the best me the me I wish to be able to be.

6:12And there were so many different kinds of reasons why it just didn't feel right. And I totally agree with you that so many people get kind of stuck with the wrong person, and that hinders them from finding the right one. So we should really be so happy with being single that we will rather stay single than just be with someone. I think that's the answer. But then anytime I speak about this to friends or someone who's asking for advice, the first thing they will say is, 100 dates? Are you crazy? I mean, do I have time for this? Is this my full-time job? You know, how do you answer that? Yeah, it took a lot of time.

7:00So that's total... How long did it take, actually? It took approximately one and a half years. And some days I went on two dates. I think there is even one day when I went on three dates. How does that work? Yeah, it's planning, just planning and trying to manage my schedule. Okay. Yeah, it took a lot of time, but I would say writing and swiping, that's what took even more time. Just finding a person who is not there just to find somebody who says, hi, handsome, or good morning, just getting the confirmation. So just finding and kind of getting past all those people who are not even looking for someone to meet.

7:45That takes a lot of time. So if you counted everything, how many matches did you get to get on 100 dates? Approximately 30 ,000. No way. 30 ,000 matches yes and how many of those do you think you actually interacted with had a message or something with oh there were a lot but that number I don't really have but there were so many and so many of these people kind of even though they get a right swipe on the swiping stage the swipe turned to a left swipe because maybe they were not responding or writing or asking me something polite, something maybe I felt offended, like the first thing they wrote.

8:35So, so many people I had to just get past just to get to the next one who was polite and kind. But then when I met them, there wasn't that special feeling. And it doesn't have to be the first time, of course, but yeah, a lot of things could get in the way so i'm in my business mind now i'm imagining what is known as a funnel which is how many leads come into the sales funnel uh you know so basically you have 30 000 people coming in and and and then a hundred of them turning into actual dates uh which basically is what 300 to one so out of every 300 likes you got or 300 interactions you got you went out with one Yes, your mathematics sounds completely correct.

9:27Correct. Okay. So of those 100, again, I think I'm going to be boring people with a lot of mathematics today. 20 % or let's say 22 % ended up getting a second chance. Yes. Okay. Correct. Here's the trick. Did you go with a list of things? Like, did you have, I'm looking for, you were just exploring. i was exploring and i had my age range also 18 to 100 uh did you really yeah it was a bit crazy that part also so but i was thinking i want to experience and i want to see everything that's out there so i didn't want to close the door to anything and any any like traits or any features any superficial things i just thought i want to just see whatever's out there but of course i had somewhere in my mind that it's somebody who's also been married somebody who also has kids as i do so i had in the back of my mind those kind but i didn't have a real specific list like this person should be he should be uh having this kind of job or having this kind of personality so no i didn't i didn't i was pretty open-minded that's amazing did you enjoy those dates some of them yes very much and they were fun there was humor laughter and some of them I just felt like oh I just want to go home and watch Netflix with you know just check watch my favorite TV series instead of sitting at some bar with somebody who I'm not enjoying the company of some people were really having strong opinions negative opinions and I wasn't uplifted at all I just felt like if I felt this happy when I entered the date, I was like here when we finished the date.

11:24So some people are just like that. But that actually constitutes the second biggest objection that people tell me when I tell them you need to go on a lot of dates. They say, but come on, you know, three of every five dates or like one or two of every five dates are very boring or they really, really. So, you know, what do you say to that? because in an interesting way, it feels like a waste of your time really to spend time doing this. Yes, the whole dating process, there are so many levels on, like we need to make this kind of the good impression on the swiping level, like having the right profile picture, the right bio text.

12:03And there is one level of evaluations we make of others, others make of us. The second is what should be right. So there is also a lot of things that we read in our fellow humans. Like, is this person seem, does he seem dominant? Does he seem empathetic? Does he seem, etc. Like we make so many, it's this equation or calculation we have in the back of our mind constantly. and then is it the person are we looking for the same thing are we both open to finding the love of our life or at least somebody that we could like in a like in a real way so there is and then of course when we meet and sometimes the first date is really good but then the communication between the dates is not working and that could be like the one of the persons is looking for more fluent or more even communication the other one wants to just send a text message once a week and wants to meet once a month oh yeah so it's so many different things that can kind of go wrong or can give us indication that the person is not what we would like to find in a person in a partner and in that case whenever that happened with a very brave decision you said okay even though it's now 75 people so far I'm still not gonna say yes I'm going to move on and go to 76.

13:31Yeah yeah I really felt that because I hadn't found that click or and I was open to meeting many of the people many of the guys even a second or a third time just to not close the door too early because there might be something that's gross and shows itself later on but yeah I needed to keep going because I hadn't found what I thought is important to me You were just saying that sometimes you swipe and then you discover that it's not the right person sometimes they swipe for certain reasons on you and in your book you discuss a little bit about dating apps on, you know, some tips about how to make people swipe, what pictures you should have, what, you know, what comments you should write.

14:28So tell me, how did you improve your profile to the point where you got more swipes, more right swipes? And tell me, what did you see in men, in men's profiles that made you swipe? When it comes to my own profile, I started off with nothing. And the reason is I was not in the beginning, I was not like 100 % ready to start having a dating app. I was still a little bit hesitant. So I just started with a couple of pictures and then I added more. I added text. And if the text was very short in the beginning, I extended it by adding more information about myself. something short, some maybe fun fact, and also something about whatever I was looking for.

15:17And when it comes to guys dating profiles, I noticed that there were many having nothing, just as I myself started out in the beginning with nothing on my dating profile. I noticed that so many were there without anything. And that's a pity because having just something, having like half good pictures it doesn't really doesn't do the job always so often we need something more and people are looking for something more information some more information about us so i noticed the ones i swiped right on they were more often guys with traits with takes that indicate empathy kindness being an open personality so i realized i swiped right on those profiles and swiped left on profiles that indicated that there was a lack of these features or personality traits?

16:19Well, my experience was quite interesting. So I have for a long time been trying to write a book about the topic of love and romance. And, you know, I I had a very systemic approach to, if you want, dating apps where you'd be amazed. So to start with, the one thing that I will tell women, being a man swiping on dating apps. So let's call it this way. Let's say that honestly, being on a dating app is advertising, right? You're basically saying the things about yourself. Sadly, here you are the product that would make someone buy. Okay. Sounds really weird, but that's the world we've created. Okay.

17:01So to me, advertising meant that the photos told a lot about you. The photos were revealing or they were with a lot of fancy goods, branded bags and so on and so forth. You know, revealing was saying, hey, I'm here for a good time. I'm not here for a alien relationship. Too revealing. And, you know, if they were with fancy goods, it sort of indicated that I am here because I want someone to get me more of the Louis Vuitton bags and so on and so forth. Right. And, you know, if the photos were all selfies, that sort of meant to me that the person is very lonely. If they were always with other girlfriends, that basically meant that this is a woman that's maybe not very open to relationships with men and so on and so forth.

17:51When she showed a man in her photos, I got really upset for some reason. Even though I know nothing about her, but like, why is there a man there? I think we get really repulsed by men in pictures. So at least that's me. The other thing for me was the amount of attention they put, like you rightly said, in their profiles. Right. So to me, someone who has just a couple of words here and there was basically someone that says, you know what? I don't think I'm willing to put in the effort in a relationship, which normally is not the case. Normally what they're actually feeling is probably I don't want to put in the effort in the dating app because I don't believe in the dating app.

18:29But if you don't believe in the dating app, don't be there. If you're there, put in the effort is number two. And my number three, which was really my top turnoff, if you want, is women that wrote what they didn't want, not what they wanted. OK, so to me, that was so are you really telling me from before I even met you that you're so annoying? if you're this don't talk to me if you're that don't talk to me shorties don't talk to me tall guys don't talk to me and if you're this don't do this and if you're that like seriously is that really a temptation for me to swipe right on you and and i think the reality is if you're sorry for my english bitchy before i even meet you then i'm guessing you're probably going to be very bitchy after I meet you.

19:15So I might as well swipe left on that. On the other side, when I actually built my profile, sadly, the word CEO got me a lot of right swipes. Sadly, the word travel the world got me a lot of right swipes. And it seems that the assets of men is normally what they've achieved. That doesn't mean that the right swipes were the swipes I was looking for, but that definitely they were more attractive if you want. Sorry, I took us on a trip there, but these were my findings. Yeah, that is so interesting. Yeah, I think that the trick is that we are always conflicted. People who go on dating apps looking for a serious relationship are always conflicted.

20:00They sort of like don't feel that the app is going to do it for them, but they're on the app anyway, and then they're getting disappointed. I think dating apps are a very weird place to find love right but if you're there you might as well do it right is what i'm trying to say i totally agree and i think also i get also amazed and puzzled when we people write all the things they don't want all the things they are not looking for and when they send signals of or let's say they do things that get them a lot of right swipes but the things that they to get the right swipes will not be the same things that attract the real love and the real the person really could make them happy and the person that whom they could create a beautiful relationship so somehow i guess we humans are partly one explanation might be that we are so afraid of being rejected so that we do everything we can to get all the right swipes But we don't think one step further.

21:07That is really what I'm looking for. And all those things that signal status and some kind of position, this you mentioned CEO, being some kind of boss, having traveled the world and having these kinds of possibilities. But is that the guy who will have the highest level of empathy? is that guy the one that will put in the effort in the when the things are not going as smooth as we as they they won't go always as smooth as we wish for in a relationship so is that the guy who will stick who will work who will go to couples counseling who will do all the work that's needed once in a while in a relationship so when when we're doing things on the dating app we just sidetrack ourselves so many times and really we are attracting completely wrong.

22:00Yeah. So, I mean, you bring up a very interesting point because on one side, you know, most of the articles you will read will tell you what it is that you need to do to get likes, okay, to get right swipes. But right swipes in themselves are a waste of your time. They're a waste of your life because in a very interesting way, those right swipes are actually, if they're the wrong person for you. They're wasting your time and they're just gratifying your ego and making you feel that you can, you know, that you're liked, but you're liked by the wrong people. So this is one side. The other side, which I always found very interesting is, again, I mean, especially photos, because I have to be open.

22:43If you're on a dating app, I normally would have, I'm not on dating apps anymore. Sorry, everyone. But, you know, if you're on dating apps, you're likely going to not read every profile. Okay. So men are much more visual. They look at the photos first, if you think about it. And I have to admit, you know, the photos that you put out there are giving me an impression of how you want your life with me to be. Okay. If your photo out there is of you in a bikini on a boat somewhere with other women in bikinis and one, you know, interestingly rich looking man in the back with a glass of wine, you're basically telling me I am not long-term material.

23:29I'm here to want to have fun with you. Okay. If you put your photos out there, traveling the world and so on, then you're basically telling me I'm interested in someone that takes me traveling. If you put your photos in a party, a rave party with music behind you, that's what you're telling me, right? That's what you're, if that's been your life before, I love the ones that put photos of themselves. So it's actually quite regular in the Middle East for someone to have her photo, then her photo standing next to a Lamborghini, then the photo of an expensive bag without her even in it. Like, so this is what a relationship is for you, right?

24:07You're looking for items. Okay. And I think that advertising needs to be a lot better thought through. Your conclusion in general is, do dating apps work? Do you recommend people to use apps? I think there is one major benefit with apps, and that's mostly like the one and only benefit. It's that we get the chance of meeting people we otherwise wouldn't meet. Okay. But there are certain backsides and one of them is that apps really steer us in the wrong direction when it comes to creating or awakening the psychological phenomenon of choice overload which means that when we are exposed to a lot of people like in a looking something that looks like a shop digitally uh dating dating app yeah so we really get the impression and kind of feel like all of these people are available right here to me and we can't kind of stop swiping because we feel like there might be something better behind the corner and this phenomenon will also affect us when we enter a relationship if we do because studies show that when we go into a relationship this choice overload will stay there in the back of our mind and make us imagine and believe that there might still be something better so it hinders us the dating apps have this capacity of hindering us to actually find love so then we should think okay this possibility of seeing and getting exposed to the people we otherwise wouldn't be exposed to which is weighing heavier all these negative side effects that with choice overload etc that comes with dating apps like in the package of dating apps oh well which of these will help or hinder me the most so somewhere we need to just consider all these pluses and minuses it's interesting that you say that because i you know when i speak to people including my daughter which i love very much for example is you know who's very conservative about her dating life, you know, she's very selective and so on, is I tell her that, but hold on, a date is not a commitment.

26:29And a date is an interesting learning experience. You know, dating is a skill in itself, right? You know, to be able to walk out of an annoying date is a skill to be able to investigate the things that you like and not don't like as a skiller, right? And it's interesting when I say that dating apps is basically a training ground, if you ask me. It's the idea of I meet people who I would normally not meet to broaden my perspective on what is possible and accordingly on what it is that I like in life, right? I think that there is value in that, but theoretically that value should come back to me in terms of and because of that you know I don't need to go on so many dates anymore I now really know what I want I really know how to get it and so theoretically the dates get less but I'll tell you openly and I I'm not a you know ashamed to admit it that there were times when the you know when I'm early in a in a relationship with two weeks together but you know two weeks and you start to really see things that you didn't see in the first three dates, right?

27:37And, you know, you start to feel maybe she's not the one. Yeah. If I had found her on a dating app, the first thing I would do is I would look back at the dating app and say, you know, almost like going back to customer service and saying, hey, by the way, the product you sold me isn't what I was looking for. Do you have anything else that is meeting my expectations? And, and I had to, I have to say, I psychologically, approach this with myself saying that's not, these are, you know, human relationships. You might as well not walk out of the store with a, with a product until that product is actually good for you.

28:13So, so you might as well, like you did, you know, 78 of the, of the hundred times say, thank you so much. This was wonderful. And I, I don't want another date with you. You know what I mean? I think that's a much, if they think apps are used as that training ground, with the consciousness of I'm not going to fall for the wrong product, then I think they bring a lot of value. So on the dates you didn't want to go again, how did you handle that? Many times I just, if the other, either one possibility was that none of us brought back to each other. The other possibility was if the other one asked me for a second date, I was just up front and said, I think I'm going to keep looking or I'm not, I didn't feel that feeling that I wish for with you.

29:07So I think we should just keep looking and I wish you all the best with some little cute emoji just to be polite and encouraging. but I wasn't rude. I always want to be, try to be upfront and have kindness, have empathy, and try to be as positive as I can in my dating. So that's really interesting what you mentioned, that seeing the dating app as a training ground. And it really, I think that's one of the huge benefits or the huge pluses that there are with dating apps because they teach us to see and experience what traits like what personalities what things we value what things make us happy so i felt like this when i was on this date with this guy i felt like that when i was with date when i date with that guy so i think it really helps us to exactly know what we are looking for when we have that person in front of us.

30:12I agree with that. I think it's not the real world, but it's a very good simulation that allows us to learn about the real world. Is it different in Sweden? Because I have to admit, you know, if you're, I think in Sweden, it's a bit, you're a bit more direct. You can tell someone very openly, look, this didn't work out, you know, but thank you for your time. If this was Latin America, for example, oh my God, she would never escape. Like, you know, Latin men don't take no as a no, right? If this was maybe some of the more sentimental or emotional places, Italy, let's say, or some parts of the Middle East, he would pursue her with more romance.

30:51It's like, but I love this and I really liked that and maybe another chance and so on and so forth. What would you do then? Would you continue to apologize politely or would you simply say that's it and cut the conversation? Yeah, after a while, I would, well, I think there shouldn't be that much more time spent on something that doesn't feel right. So I think I would be polite maybe twice more, and then I would just leave the conversation. Like, I've communicated, I've done my part, I've done it in a good, nice way, and now I'm done. Okay, so forget the process. Did you notice how much the engineer in me was looking at the process of what you did here?

31:38So what was the basis of the research? Let's talk about some of the findings. You openly speak about your understanding and learning from that experience around what attraction is, what causes attraction, what chemistry is and what causes chemistry. Tell me a bit more about that. What did you learn? Well, I learned and I've also learned by studies that's been made that when researchers try to pinpoint or try to combine and match people based on traits, on preferences, on wishes, things that they report. And when they try to match two people based on whatever they've told to the researchers, it's very, very difficult to match two people based on this.

32:27This means that the chemistry, the attraction is really something that needs to be experienced in real life when we meet somebody. It's more or less such an intangible feature or thing or phenomenon that we just need to feel it when we meet somebody. My experience is also that it's tricky to kind of go based on a paper or a list on like Excel sheet. like this is what I'm looking for this is important and I should based on these things that I've written down I should feel attraction for this particular guy but it doesn't really work that way so we need to meet and see how that goes I was actually talking to a person to a friend of mine yesterday about exactly that it's quite interesting when you when you because I have a list.

33:18I have a very, very specific list, 10 items on it. And, and it's quite interesting when you, when you look at my list, my list is not the things that I'm looking for. My list are the things I'm not going to able to be able to tolerate. So it's actually, it's so interesting that you're so right about a list that is, I want someone who is this or that doesn't actually trigger attraction because on paper someone could be this or that but the attraction wouldn't happen but it's clear for me that there is a need for a list of a no-no all of the list of the no-nos it's like for me for example I'm looking for someone who understands my mission my my need for space and time and so on this was always the top of my list Right.

34:07And so the minute I found that someone was intrusive into my my private time or demanding or needy or whatever, that would have canceled them immediately. And, you know, as I as I come to find love, I find that with people, you know, someone who is actually very keen on my time and my mission and my, you know, and my space. Right. So that idea of a list of don'ts, not a list of do's, I think, is what triggers attraction. that's so interesting and yes we should definitely have a red flag list and a green flag list and as you said maybe the red flag list is even more important like what traits uh and what things in the different another person's personality is really something we can't live with and we don't want to live with so yeah that's important it really is and you know more and more, I think again, what attracts me about the idea of 100 dates is that the ability to say no is really what matters most in a date, right?

35:13And the ability and the awareness of what makes you say no is really something very valuable. You say there are three types of dates and that one of them should be avoided. What are those? Yeah, one category is persons who are just looking for a pen pal somebody to write there are somebody who just loves the confirmation the the nice vibe with having somebody who writes good morning good night you're looking so good and hi beautiful things like that interesting are there are there men that are like that too yes a lot is that it that's so interesting i thought that it's more women who are not really ready for relationship and that are just texting away to feel that they're getting attention so eye-opening interesting yeah and it's just and these people can be it's kind of tricky to be communicating with them because many times they are just finding different excuses to why they can't meet dicks this week why next week might be better and then when next week comes next week will not not even that will won't be good so they're just postponing kind of the date and they can be very affectionate and very communicating a lot and they can be very there's a good feeling with their communication often but then you drop them how long do you give them sometimes i just keep writing with them maybe one week or so sometimes even less because if i just after a while i get more skilled or more experienced when it comes to dating so i bring the signals faster but in the beginning i was clueless as most people are and then just step by step getting more awareness of different personalities and different styles and okay if that person asks for this oh it's not gonna be a date that's not that's a red flag straight on right away from the beginning or if a person writes that oh well that's not a good thing okay so so that's one type of data attention seeking textures that's one group that one should avoid other types yeah one type is the people that are that's that are looking for something more short term the physical part and only that okay i i would disagree with that i would disagree with I think that these are the wrong group for you, but there are others that are out there to date for the short term as well, right?

37:49So I think what matters is, I think the way to state this, just so that we're fair to every listener, is someone that has a different target than you, right? So if your target is a long-term relationship, then that's amazing. Yeah, correct. And if your target is a short-term relationship, that's also fine. It's your choice. But I think what matters is that you're honest and transparent and they are honest and transparent so that there is no lying. Yes. Correct. I agree. That's group two, group three. And the third group is the people that are looking for the same thing as we are. So these three groups, they are based on the relationship goal or the goal that we are having on the dating app.

38:40So one is same goal as we, some is the other, or we could have just two groups. One is the people who are having the same goal as I have, and the rest is all the ones who are having a different goal. And regardless if we're... Oh, yeah. The trickiest group, I would say, is the group that are looking for just somebody to chat with because they can be so affectionate and so loving in their way so that we mistake them for somebody who we really could create a relationship with if we are looking for a relationship. Got that. Yeah. I tend to believe that, you know, one of the things that I, especially, I think more women than men is that they fear stating openly what they're looking for because they believe that this might scare away a possible candidate.

39:35it. You know, I always cite the example of my very dear friend, one of my dearest female friends who is out there because she wants to start a family. But then every time she goes on a date and I say, did you ask him if he wants to start a family? She would go like, yeah, it's too early. If I tell him that now he will run away. And I always say that's exactly the objective. We want him to run away if what he wants is not what you want, right? And I think that's really something that is probably at the top of the list. Okay, let me ask you a last question, which is related to the title of your book.