Dr. Lalitaa Suglani - How Finding Yourself Can Help Find Love

30:58I mean, the idea of me losing money on them is actually part of classic cars. Classic cars, when you sell them, never make money. And in the past, I used to lie to myself and say, just keep them. Okay. Who cares if you keep them, right? And when I was my little rich, spoiled brat, but now I don't want to keep them. And I do sell them to a very lucky person that really enjoys them. But it is experience that tells you, look, you're rarely ever going to make money on a restored car, this is your hobby. This is like you're going to play golf, which I don't understand why people play golf at all. But yeah, but, but, but, but, you know, some people enjoy that.

31:34So I enjoy doing this. And I also have to say, if you look at lots of experiences, you know, we spoke about that on your podcast. My statistics say that 98 % of all relationships end. Okay. Not marriages, not long-term committed relationships, but you know, which hopefully will enjoy a slightly less appalling stat. You know, they say half of every, one of every two Western marriages end. But relationships, right? And I think the thing is maybe we should also tell people sometimes to look at the relationship and say, it was lovely. I mean, I learned so much, I enjoyed so much. You know, I really love this about this person, but it's not restorable.

32:20Yeah. Yeah. And there's a real power with what you've just said. And I take it back to experience because with experience, there's two ways we can go. We can have the experience and we repeat the same pattern. We repeat the same pattern. We repeat the same pattern. And it's like, why is it that I keep getting people that are emotionally unavailable? Or why is it that I keep getting this? Why is it that I get? And it's like, you're not looking at the pattern and understanding that. But the second side is you go through the experience, you stop, you gain clarity, you try and understand what happened in that relationship.

32:50and then now you have that wisdom from there you have the teachings you have the lessons to then move forward into the next space but if you're not doing that then what ends up happening is you'll continue to repeat the same pattern over and over again yeah which i think is really life's way of telling you by the way until you learn the lesson you're gonna have to you're gonna have to go continue to go through the tests yeah i think one of the most eye-opening experiences in my uh in my romantic life was when i became a monk to change everything you became a monk i did nine months yeah okay my own definition of monk let's put it this way right so i i can't be in a monastery being told what to do it's just yeah i'm too old for that yeah but i but i did you know have a vow of celibacy and i you know i i changed my my life allocation of hours and so on and you said you did that for nine months yeah i did that it was planned for for six and then i decided nine around the first month and i stuck to it for nine months going through that experience I went on platonic dates and and it's I have to say it's the most eye-opening experience ever when you sort of like look at her and say oh my god she's so cute and then say but I'm not gonna touch her for nine months yeah and that's it yeah so what was eye-opening about that for you because once you give yourself that space you make very different decisions almost every single time on the fourth date which you never really wait until I was like oh not right for me at all wonderful in so many ways so what did you learn about yourself from that and now I go through the whole idea of love and romance very differently I almost flipped it upside down yeah okay and so so the typical approach of love and romance is you get into a relationship hoping to make it work unless it proves otherwise yeah I now just flipped one tiny thing I said it's not gonna work unless proven otherwise.

34:46And that tiny little thing meant a complete relief and objectivity and like, okay, take time, you know, get to know someone, even go a step further, doesn't matter, it's okay. As long as you're open about the idea that, hey, look, we don't know that this is going to work yet. We don't know that we should put our lives fighting for it to work yet. When that becomes clear it's clear yeah right until it becomes clear it might be part of the 98 but is this also when you're talking and what i'm hearing is self-awareness you're aware so you're thinking and you're you're aware aware of what's going on so you're like okay this this is what's happening and sometimes through experience we gain that self-awareness so when relationships it's of paramount importance to know who you are.

35:38But also who we are changes because one person might go through something really big, the other person might not, or you might both go through something big and it changes you both in different ways. So it goes back to the point of we're constantly changing and evolving shapes. And as we're evolving, we also need to communicate with one another as we're evolving because otherwise we always just believe that, but that's how we were when we first got together. That's how we were. And if you keep living in the past of that's how we were, but this is where you're at now you can't keep thinking back to that's how it was because that's this is where you are and if there's parts of that that you enjoyed how do we bring parts forward if it's going to work and if it's not we're not just going to bang our heads against the wall and think how is this going to work how is this going to work if it's not meant to be we will also go through that as well i think that's really important that is really important okay i have a i have a question that you have the right to uh to refuse Yeah.

36:29What is the love life of a couples therapist look like? Oh, so, you know, so many people are really intrigued about this. They're like, oh, so go on then. What do you know? You know, when you're in a relationship, do you sit him down and say, look, I've done the analysis. This is hopeless. I think it's also about having someone who's on your level, isn't it? You want someone who's on your level who understands it. And it's when you're in therapy, you are fully focused. You're 100 percent there and you're available in the way that you are. when you're in life you're yes you have your awareness and you have your reflections but are you there the way that you are with your clients it's a very different experience so sometimes people think oh you're asking these questions but it's just a natural thing it's like one of my um one of my cousins he works with roofs so when we go places he's like look at the roof there and look at the roof and I'm like yeah I used to be like that I was like I don't understand that so I'm the same when it comes to psychology it's in it's integrated within me um and even at home like I'll say things or things don't make sense and I might say things and I'm like oh and then people say stop doing psychology now and I'm like but it just comes natural to me it's just a big part of me so I think it's about finding someone who accepts you finding someone who understands you and if you do cross that boundary they are also able to say hey look I'm not ready to talk about this or I'm not really comfortable about this and you respecting that rather than thinking oh no but in therapy I can go deeper and deep like no you also have to respect where the other person's at so it's about understanding where they are but they understanding you but you being mindful as well that you you're not the therapist at home and you have to be mindful of that but but but things like you know uh being able to look at their attachment style and go like yeah right yeah do you tell them what you're doing do i tell them um so lie down here for a let's just take a seat and let's just talk about this um I think it's important that I um I respect where they're at and where their self-awareness is as well and if they're not ready to hear something it's not my place to also just impose and throw something at them that they might not be ready to hear so sometimes you can ask a question I've noticed something do you want to hear what I've what I might have observed or what might be coming up and if they're ready and if they want to hear then yeah that's fine I'll share that um but that's also like with friends with family um it's the same sort of situation is if i notice things do i say it and also i think there's this there's this idea that just because you're a therapist you're a psychologist you work with people you have your life figured out you have everything going on yeah so people think that but no that's not the case just because we are able to notice things and work and help and support people working through things doesn't mean that that's how we are at home because we are also human beings and this comes up time and time again but you're a therapist you should know better and I'm like but I'm not a therapist in real life like I'm a therapist but this is where my 100 % focus is otherwise I'm a human being I make things I make mistakes I might say things that are inappropriate but I take that accountability and I really work with that and understand it and try and make sense and have the same reflections as others so I'm living and breathing what I preach to others.

39:42Oh, interesting. So therapists break up too. Their hearts break as well. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, I was joking with a friend of mine who's a masseuse, you know, saying that I should definitely, you know, date a masseuse. And she said, I never massaged any of my boyfriends. I'm like, what? So, you know, with all due respect, why do they date you? and she said exactly yeah there's an assumption isn't there there's a huge assumption that people it's like when people look at yourself and they're like oh engineer this this this but then we make assumptions based on what isn't really there so it might be there but it's a subconscious way that we're connecting with someone thinking oh they've got it all together or they're perfect or they're like and it's like we're not perfect we're not we haven't got it all together but just like you said as well when you're connecting with other professions we have the same belief or the same like but you're a solicitor you should be this or you're this profession you should be organized but that's our own belief that's our own we're going to put them up here and we're going to expect them to behave in this way but that's not who they are so it's going past the labels which is what when you asked me at the beginning how do i introduce you i was like they're labels they're labels of having a psychologist having a therapist there's so much more to people than having these labels me as a happiness teacher i actually am happy yeah that's i think that's important yeah to practice what you preach in that way.

41:05You seem to keep going back to understanding oneself, not understanding the other. Okay, that's interesting. Because I think in order to understand oneself, you then communicate that to the other, to then understand the other. Because is it, when there's two people in a relationship and if you're constantly - Not always. In this modern new world, it could be 12, 17. Very good point. So say, for example, if the other, we're focusing on the other person, where's the, and you're saying, right, you're doing this wrong, you're doing this, you're doing this, or you need to change this and you need to change this.

41:36But doesn't it take two to tango? So isn't it also about there's two, not just two people, but there's however many people there are in this relationship, but we have to work on ourselves first. We are on this journey, we're here, but in order to then connect and communicate our needs, isn't it also about understanding what might be going on for ourselves? So it is, for me, the way I see it is, it is that self-development to then be able to communicate outwards. So going in to then come out. So going back to that post we started the conversation with, of course, I am not very supportive of social media negativity.

42:14So when I get negativity on social media, I sort of shut up completely. But responding to this, I simply said, well, there are good men too, right? That not everyone is wrong. And I couldn't get into the point of saying, but the reason you don't see that is because of part of your conditioning. And it might be very useful to actually go within to recognize that, yeah, even though maybe your father wasn't amazing or, you know, accordingly, the men that you dated were not amazing, that this is not the truth at all, that this cycle could be broken. But isn't that a beautiful response? Isn't that a really beautiful response from our viewpoint?

42:57But from her viewpoint, if you respond back to her in that way, she might be like, oh, see, this is the problem or this, because she's not ready to hear it or she's not ready to understand that. So her way, it's like when we said people get stuck. People get stuck in that story that they keep telling themselves. All men are like this. All men are like this or all women are like this. And as a result, what ends up happening is you have that belief that's so strong. So someone comes and tries to pop that belief and they're like, no, this is the, and then you become the problem because now you're the problem because they're not ready to feel or to let go and to evolve from that belief that they may have.

43:34Yeah, I find that quite interesting because, you know, in a very interesting way, we seem to always take the extremes. Like, you know, on one side, we would hold the position that love and romance is never going to work. Every one of the opposite, you know, polarity is going to be horrible in every possible way. We don't understand them. They're stupid in every way. or we take the other, you know, and we somehow ignore the example of that couple friends of ours that seem to be making it work, right? Which is sort of the, you know, or ignore the example of that short relationship we had at a point in time that seemed to work.

44:16We ignore that. And on the other hand, on the other extreme, what I find quite interesting is, again, remember when we were talking on your podcast about, I believe that doing the work is important, even if the objective is love and romance, which is love is a state of being, it doesn't require action or doing, but doing the work to find it, you know, is normally, again, on the other extreme, completely ignored. I get quite a few of the romantics, men or women, but mostly on the feminine side, that will say, no, no, I'm just going to wait here. And then one day, the door will be knocked down by a white horse you know and a and a handsome man and he's just gonna show up and and i'm like possible but where does that come from but where does that come from it comes from their conditioning or it comes from the beliefs that they actually feel so they feel that is so true so they are there waiting waiting waiting for this person to come along because that's what they feel is their story and that's not happening so they're gonna that's gonna lead them to feeling disappointment, feeling like the world is like doing this, looking at everyone else and thinking, look at everyone else, everyone else is in relationships.

45:22What's wrong with me? And then they take that belief of life because the story that they thought life was going to bring them isn't the story that's happened for them. And even more interestingly, I think they reject every other story. And that's a very, it's very, you know, it reinforces your point of view of look within because I think before this conversation, I thought it is all workable. But what you're saying is sometimes the story that you're expecting the story that you're insisting on is not realistic it's just not going to happen and that's why we have to go inwards but sometimes we may not know that until like you said your friend he is madly in love and you can see from your own awareness from your own experiences that he's not madly in love but that's what his view is in that point but he's on his own journey he has to learn himself so he might eventually come out of that relationship thinking this was not for me and I don't I can't believe I stayed in that relationship for this many years but right now that's the story he's holding on to that this is I'm in madly in love this is the perfect person for me this is an amazing life but he has to get to that point where it no longer works or something happens and then he has to go within and that's often what we see like in in the therapy space is people get to a point where things aren't working and that's when they work on themselves and it's like why don't people before they feel like they need to get married or before they enter a relationship, why don't they work or have sessions to try and just help them understand each other or do things where they're really understanding one another rather than going out or doing something that doesn't allow them to develop that real depth to one another?

46:55Yeah, it's really quite an interesting side. Do you believe that conflict is a necessary part of a relationship? Is there any relationship without a conflict? I think about that. It's a two-level question. I think about that because I haven't made up my mind if AI boyfriends and girlfriends are a bad idea or a good idea. Because maybe there is a way. I mean, for humanity, there seems to be a path to the angel girlfriend, which is always perfect. I know you're saying it's always perfect, but is there also something around energy management? So people, they're so quick. Like if I want some food, deliver it.

47:38If I want to watch something, Netflix. If I want to do this, there's something out there. Everything's really, really quick. So when it comes to a relationship, sitting down and talking, it's not something like that. It just happens like that. So is that also evolving, this way of life that's so fast paced and we get things instantly. When there's a conflict, sometimes that's not an instant fix. Sometimes we have to sit down with one another, give each other time. No phones, no distractions and just giving each other that real space and connection. That feels like hard work. So it's easier to go somewhere where there might be, like you said, it's perfect.

48:09It's angel. It's like, this is life because I don't get this and I don't get this. But is that also partly to play into that idea of the fast-pacedness and the giving space? I mean, think about it this way. The reason why we order in is because we either don't have the energy to cook or we don't know how to cook. Right. And, you know, I actually enjoy that more and more in my life as I got older. I really enjoy that polarity of the feminine and the masculine. I really enjoy that deep connection that is not centered around desire or, you know, attraction, but actually desired around difference.

48:46Because, you know, if we agreed you and I on everything, our conversations would be very boring. Right. And life would be very much like that. But in conflict, things happen and you feel alive. Right. So I love that. And I love the emotional roller coasters that a woman in my life would show. I love that. But I'm not everyone. I'm old. I've seen a lot. I have had a lot of experiences, you know, and in an interesting way, I know exactly what I want. Exactly. Like to the, it's, if I share with you how engineered I am in the approach of analyzing what I truly, truly want and what I don't. But not everyone's like that.

49:29And those who are not, then they're very lonely. They're struggling. They're finding that life is draining in many ways. And maybe they should just, maybe it shouldn't be that way. Yeah. When you were talking and you were saying, oh, I've got this list. I'm going to challenge you in that because having that specific list in your head based on your experiences and you've got this list. Does that also, do you think, limit you? Because when you're meeting with someone, they may not have the tick list that you feel that you want. Oh, no, no. I don't have a list of things to tick. Ah, okay, okay. I have a list of boundaries that will not be crossed.

50:04Okay. So can you see this communication here? I've just said to you, oh, do you have it? And you're like, no, no, no, it's not a tick list. So in my head, I'd be like, oh, Mo has a tick list and this, this, this. But I've just communicated that to you and asked you, oh, what's this? And you're like, no, no, it's a boundary. It's like this, this, this. That is like communication right there, isn't it? Yeah. I think it's actually a very interesting point when you really think about it because, you know, most of the time, even myself when I was teaching this at earlier stages, I would say know exactly what you're looking for.

50:34Yeah. Right. Yeah. But I realized that more and more the list you should have is know exactly what you won't compromise on. Yeah. So when you say, I'm looking for someone who's much taller than I am, very typical feminine requirement is for the masculine to be more dominant or protective and so on. You could say that or you could say, I don't want to feel that I'm with someone who's smaller than me. That's different because smaller and bigger is not just physical. And if you really dig deep into this, you start to understand what is driving you to want what you want. I want a passionate woman, not just passionate like sensually, but I want a woman that believes in what she believes in.

51:23And she's out there arguing for her point of view, believes in something, whatever that thing is. And I love that idea of if I'm doing what I'm doing, I'm doing it full heartedly, whatever that is. But that doesn't mean I'm not open to realizing that passion comes in many different ways than what I think it is. And you start to realize that when you sort of narrow down what it is that you're looking for to specifically hair colors and characteristics and words and love languages and all of those complex things that we add, you're sort of killing the serendipity of life. and if you take into account and I say that and I know I'm going to be battered for this I can hear your voice going slowly, quietly, head down you know, if you accept the fact that 98 % of all relationships will end then you might as well allow serendipity to allow you to learn so that you get closer and closer and closer to the one that deserves to know that I wonder, the people that get offended with that stat and what you've just said what might be going on for them and what might be happening for them and what belief that they have?

52:35Because have they come from the belief that mom and dad, from their experiences, their mom and dad stayed together, they've made things work? Are they coming from the belief that their dad may have left or their mom may have left and they're like, no matter what, you have to stay together? So can you see there might be something going on for that person? So when you've said, well, actually 98 % of people, they don't stay in relationships. Someone might get really frustrated by what you've just said. But it's also to understand where that frustration is coming from and why what you have said hasn't been sort of accepted.

53:05Instead, it's brought like this defense. Absolutely. So it's trying to understand that as well within oneself to try and make sense. What's going on there for you? I'm being curious with that. For me, this is the reason why I never published that book. Okay. Because in that book, I have brutal honesty about the idea that, look, 98 % of relationships will break, which gives you two things. One is to say, here and now, when you're in a relationship, feel it and live it fully because it might actually end. It's like losing my wonderful son Ali. If sooner or later the ones you love are going to leave, you might as well enjoy their presence fully.

53:40That's number one. Number two is there is that side of the only way you can be part of the 2 % is to put in work and a lot of learning. And the only way you can put in work and learn is to actually be in relationships. It's not to read books. It's not to listen to me. Okay. It's to, you know, I tell my wonderful daughter, I say, Aya, go on a lot of dates. Yeah. Right. Why? Because yes, dating is annoying sometimes, but dating is a skill. Yeah. It's a skill for you to be able to sit in front of someone and say, oh, hotty patty, but what's wrong with him? Yeah. Right. And I think that idea of truth is truth, but can you take the positive side of that truth?

54:22And then the book goes deeper into other things that are facts. I think this book needs to be out in the world. They're facts, but annoying. Facts that are like, for example, 75 % of people under the age 30 in the West, at least where the surveys were run, have hooked up with someone for a one night stand or a relationship of friends with benefits and so on. And then when you tell people that 75%, that's a majority, that's a very large majority. And by the way, you must have been one of them unless you were part of the 25%. Why are you frowning upon it now? The reality is with gender diversity and the openness now for individual freedom, there are probably a gazillion love models that are all agreed, all approved.

55:15Disney doesn't approve them. Hollywood doesn't approve them. Not yet. Not yet. Or it didn't in romantic comedies, right? The traditional model they sold was this is all about one man, one woman forever. And I think that the reality is when I tell people, but hey, just like you hooked up in your 20s and now you're saying, no, no, I want my one partner for life and he has to commit or she has to commit or whatever. You also are going to go through seasons in your life and you're going to change in ways that basically will not only allow you but almost force you to explore other models. Yeah. Okay.

55:53Now, it seems to me that the biggest challenge around love and romance, and interestingly, because I was thinking this was going to be my concluding episode on the series, it seems that the challenge is that we're stuck in our own castles of beliefs. Yeah. That unless I get A, B, and C, this is not love. Unless I get A, B, and C, it's not worth it. And if anyone tells me I can't get A, B, and C, I'll get upset. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. It's really interesting. And that just opens up the doors again back into going back into self and really understanding self. But you can't understand self without research.

56:33So going on dates, really getting to know other people and understanding what's coming up for me, what's coming up for and what am I noticing about myself. That's your research into yourself and understanding. So you can sit there and read all the books that you want and be like, yep, okay, this is my love language. This is my love style. This is this. This is this. But it's only until you actually start doing the research. It's like sitting, learning to, oh, this is how you drive. You drive by doing this. This is what you do with the gear stick. When you're on like a hill and that gear stick is like you've put it into one and you're ready to go and you're just like, oh, no, I'm not.

57:05The biting point is wrong. You're experiencing it very differently to how you're reading something. and that experience is showing up very differently so it's the same in relationships when you're in a relationship and there's conflict and inside your your nervous system has shut down because that's what used to happen as a child your nervous system has shut down and they're like well why are you not answering me why what's going on for you and you're not able to say there's nothing wrong or you don't have the awareness that my body is actually shutting down right now because this is what used to happen and when there was fights there was someone that would get hurt so when you're doing this now my brain is going into fight flight or freeze mode because i'm feeling like something's going to happen something's going to happen but that's something that we have to relearn we have to relearn how to be in relationships by understanding and going to the past to then move forwards i think this is really a very profound statement that there is such a joy in finding love yeah such a joy in finding someone but there is also pain involved okay there is the pain of getting out of your shyness or getting to connect to a new person or putting in the effort to build it after it you know it broke down last time or or the fear of the pain of loss okay and i think for many this whole just needs to be one and it has to be forever and can't they take this anymore and you know don't break my heart and tell me it's not going to be the next time it's just putting people in a place where they're actually not going out to do the experiences that they need to develop the skills.

58:34Yeah. And there's two things there. Yeah. Two things that come up in my mind, safety and trust. And it's self-trust. So the safety side is, do I feel safe with this person to speak out how I'm feeling? Or does this person not make me feel safe? And what is that about? Is it because I worry that if I tell them what's really on my mind, they're going to leave and they're going to think, you're too much. I can't deal with this. I'm out of here. So that's about the safety that you might have with the person. But the other thing is self-trust that if the person does walk away, I know I'll be okay. I know I will figure it out and I will work through this and I will be okay.

59:08But it's that self-trust that you may not have or that you might not even have fallen into because you haven't allowed that to happen to you. You haven't allowed someone to walk away from your life because you've fallen into, give them everything, people please, fall into these ways of achieving whatever they might want because then they stay here. But then inside you're feeling resentful, you're feeling frustration because they're not showing up in the way that you want them to, but you're not telling them how to. So this is like a two-way, a double-edged sword, but the two things there is self-trust and it's about safety.

59:37I think one of my top teachers on this, believe it or not, is my business manager and almost brother who started this podcast together, Munir. And Munir's top value in relationships is vulnerability. He basically says, look, as long as you say what you feel openly at the moment, you feel it whenever you feel it kindly. okay you cannot be blamed and you will do the best that you can for to give the relationship whatever it is a chance and I it's quite interesting so it's quite eye-opening that even in times when I was going through seasons when I was what was I was offering wasn't that the woman I I go out on a date with would want when I was vulnerable enough to say hey by the way it's our first date i you know i just want you to know what you're getting yourself into i am at this stage i want to do this and then i want to do that and i travel this way i'm not available that way most of the time they would go like interesting i never thought of that that might actually be interesting yeah right oh and by the way now that you said it this way i realized that i am this and i am that and all right and that kind of open communication is quite interesting in you know deep in the islamic religion which appears to be very restrictive it basically says this is what you need.

1:00:55You need to have transparency and agreement. You need to sort of sit with the one that you're starting to have a relationship with and just tell them, hey, by the way, I'm not going to be able to spend every evening with you. Probably in my case, I'm traveling 220 days of the year, right? 240 sometimes. And so if that is told up front, then that safety is established already because there was no trickery in the game and I and I you know I find that quite eye-opening that most people will say no I'd rather keep them even though I know it's going to break in the end because they don't get what they need yeah then tell them up front yeah yeah and doesn't that come back down to fear fear of um not feeling good enough because they feel like the other person's going to leave them or that I don't want to sit in loneliness because I don't want to be alone and what about if I can't find someone else so I'd rather just have this even if it's crumbs even if it's like a few pieces of what I feel I want to have I'm happy to have that but that's not what they want really deep down but you've said something really powerful about vulnerability and I think sometimes we think being vulnerable is sharing everything and everything that's going on and the word vulnerability is like be vulnerable but people like oh like I don't want to be vulnerable I don't want but being vulnerable isn't about you sharing like everything and anything It's about you sharing with the other person what's going on for you, what's happening for you, how are you feeling and why is it that we don't want to share these feelings with someone that we're with in order to develop and to go deeper in that relationship.

1:02:27And if we're struggling to share how we feel, what's going on for us? Is it that we've just, again, what is it that's happening for us? Do we struggle because we're worried about what the other person is going to think? Do we struggle because we think that our emotions are too big, we're too much, what are people going to think about us? All these things can just limit us and just hold us back from showing up as we want to show up and be loved in the way that we want to be loved. Is there a way to just simply chill? Honestly. Breathe, breathe, connect. I keep thinking about that quite a lot because once again, you know, we've been talking about love and romance, I think seven episodes now or six or whatever.

1:03:05And when something is so complex, an engineer's mind like myself probably says there must be like a, you know, a circuit breaker somewhere that can fix the whole thing that the whole system is connected to. You know, all of those complexities must belong to one system at the end of the day. And, you know, my answer sometimes is just chill. But isn't that also the responsibility of each and every one of us? Like say, for example, I'm annoyed because someone's done something and I'm really annoyed now. And I'm just like, I'm not regulating my emotions. I haven't given myself that space to just stop and think about what's going on for me.

1:03:45Instead, I'm reacting rather than responding. And that's because my bottle might be very full right now. I'm tired. I'm exhausted. I'm at work. I'm this and this and this. And there's one little thing that's happened. You didn't shut the windows and that's it. You then react rather than respond. So isn't it down as a responsibility to try and understand, hang on a minute, I know I'm very stressed out at the minute. I'm all of these different things. I'm aware of that. But it's also saying, even if you do, because we are imperfect, we are humans. And if we do end up reacting in a way, we can say, look, I'm really sorry about that.

1:04:18That was because of this, this, this, this is what happened. And I'm noticing that this is what happened. And I didn't mean to lash out in that way, but this is what came up for me. So it doesn't this also go back into self-awareness, but the vulnerability of going to someone and saying, this is what happened. to me and this is what we're 100 it's so much easier so so much sweeter we say it's easier but yeah everyone avoids it and just doesn't say anything because they think that's easier but that's not easier yeah i don't understand i mean i in my mind i actually think there is a higher level than that chilling in my mind is is look it's gonna work yeah if it's supposed to work yeah yeah okay it's going with the flow and the rhythm isn't it it's going to work if it's supposed to work.

1:04:56I mean, I told you my current view of life is that, look, if someone is worthy of the experiment, let's try, right? But let's not force it. Let's not squeeze it into a shape that it doesn't fit within. If it's supposed to work, it's going to work. So chill, right? Don't fight it, like a little bit like that rental agreement. It is what it is. Let's see if I enjoy that kind of life. And on the other side, by the way, chill if it breaks, because that basically means, hey, you can rent another place. It's fine. And I don't know where that fear of, I'm not going to find another one. Maybe I'm not going to find another one that meets my exact, very, very detailed specification.

1:05:40But this one isn't either, as evident by the proof that it broke. Yeah. That's where you're at right now. If someone came to you and said, just chill, when you were like, I don't know, but whenever you were, when you first started dating your ex-partner, if someone said, just chill, how would you think you would have taken that? Oh, they'll be stanked. Yeah, so I think it's also about where people are at. So you and your friend, for instance, you're telling him - He's not chilling. You're not in love. You're not chilling. You're not chilling, but he doesn't know how to because he hasn't been through them experiences where he's gone inwards.

1:06:15I think, honestly, I don't remember which country is that, But there is a country that has like a fixed date marriage where basically they say, look, you know, this marriage agreement is between us until November 2023. And then we will renew it in November 2023. I find that to be so profound. I think love should be a one day long agreement. Then every morning you wake up the next morning and you look at her and she looks at him. or if you're same sex, that's also the same. You look at each other and you go like, do I want to spend another day with you? Simple as that. Do I want to spend another day with you is the summary of all love and romance.

1:07:02I wonder how many comments you'll get for saying that. I wonder how many people will react. I wonder how many people will react because of where they are at. And I think that's where it's also really important to say that everyone's entitled to their opinion. everyone's entitled to wherever they might be in their journey that's where they're at and that's where your viewpoint is right now and someone else who doesn't see that or thinks that why are you even saying that they need to also just take a moment to just hang on what what is it that's going coming up for me when when this person is saying this is it because we're not used to someone saying this is it because it's very new language about love and romance that we haven't understood or that we're hearing for the first time and it just feels very overwhelming and it's a fear maybe it's tapping into as well okay let's edit this out no no no we keep it in let's see what happens let's do this as our own research and see how many comments we get the truth is if you wake up in the morning and you feel i don't want to spend another day with this person you have one of three choices one is to leave the other is to work on finding a way to make to make you want to spend another day with them or to live like a vegetable for the rest of your life unhappy and miserable yeah so what are you going to choose what are you going to choose i hope you don't choose the the vegetable that's all i'm asking okay i'm telling people either wake up and say hey i woke up today and i felt i don't want to spend another day with you do you want us to walk out in different ways or do you want us to make it work yeah yeah and isn't that also about being honesty like the honesty side of it that comes in so if you're noticing that for example you may like something's not going something doesn't feel right in the relationship isn't it rather than it building up building up building up and you drifting away and and sort of like spending time not coming back home and other things is it also you having the the sort of like conversation with yourself to be honest with yourself but also to be honest with the other person because isn't that also about letting them know that look I'm not I don't feel like I'm getting what I'm getting what I need in this relationship and I'm noticing that I don't really want to spend time here and I know that might hurt your feelings but I want to be honest with you about what's going on isn't that you really owning up and really respecting the other person and letting them know where you're at and it's all about the way you say it yeah I mean I think if you say it with the intention of hurting or insulting or saying oh you're a piece of and I don't want to be with you yeah or if you're saying it in you know from the point of view of like I love the story of two of us why do I not feel the same way anymore yeah you know I've noticed that my my feeling is changing i don't want it to change can we discuss this that's a very beautiful place to come from the other person might not agree and they'll be like what do you mean and the other emotions might come up but you have to also allow space to sit with them emotions and let them adjust because for them they might have thought the sky was blue and you're saying no no the sky is pink and they're like what like how did i not know this so they are also going to be going through their own and it's being patient and allowing space and you might want to be there for them but they might say I don't want you to be here right now so it's also respecting where the other person's at but at the same time you can't just hold on to someone because you're clipping their wings and you're clipping your own you're not allowing yourselves to flow in the way that you need to flow because you feel like no no but we should be here but what if we do split what people are going to think what about this and what about and we're so focused on other things and we're not coming back to the essence of the relationship the essence of why you're together and the values that you have together so come back to that to try and understand and also to to like really try and make sense of what is it that's going on what love means to both of you and showing up for one another in that way if that's together or if that's separately so Lalita I'm gonna give you uh the very last word of this series but before I do that I'll just ask the audience a couple of questions so one one thing is that if you're still here yeah that means you either like this or you're asleep So if you're asleep, that doesn't matter.

1:10:55If you're like this, do what it needs, what it takes, please, to continue to grow this. So like it. If you're on your podcast player, give it five stars. Please put in a nice comment. Tell your friends about it. If you're on YouTube, please subscribe and click the whatever little bell thing and maybe share it with your friends. If you're not on YouTube, why are you not on YouTube? It's, you know, it's actually a really nice video setup here. The other thing is send me a message if you can. And I'm only now following my messages on Instagram because I was thinking of building one episode about my findings on finding love.

1:11:30But I have to say I am worried that you guys are not going to like them. So if you want me to prepare one episode on finding love, let me know that. And Lalita, so this has been a very long series on about love and romance. You're the very last word, if you were to give one advice. I think it's what we've been saying throughout the whole episode is if something doesn't feel right for you don't just go along with it just for the sake of it don't just go along with it because you feel that's what's needed it's really delve into yourself to try and understand what is it that's going on for me and if you're struggling to do it alone there's people out there there's things that you can do to try and just understand your patterns of behavior because that's what ultimately we're here to do is understand ourselves to grow to develop and And if that's with one person for the rest of your life, if that's with several people, that's okay.

1:12:19But it's you that needs to accept that. It's you. I agree. It is you. Your next book is coming out in? Next May. Next May. So it's called, it's all about high functioning anxiety. So it's a really interesting topic and one that's dear to my heart. And I'm really looking forward to sharing that with the world. Yeah. So you're coming back for that. but until then I'm really really grateful that we finally did this in person not in on zoom it's always wonderful to spend time with you and thank you so much for your time for all of you listening yeah I think I'll take a different mini series next time I think we've covered this enough I know for a fact that we'll come back to listen to more about love and romance do go back to Robert Glover's episode from season two, I think, who spoke about No More Mr.

1:13:09Nice Guy. I think this was one very important episode for good men to learn to become better, even though I know once again that it will upset a lot of people. It is a very contested and very heated topic because of how we each view the definition of what real love, real relationships are and how they could be. But it seems to me with my aging mathematical mind that the odds of finding that perfect relationship are not really that high and that the odds of you being happy when you find it are almost zero. so you might as well do what Lalita has been talking about all day today to dive deep within you within your own self to understand where the conditioning is coming from why is it that you believe certain things why is it why is it that you refuse other things and hopefully when you put it all together you might be able to find a way to live and love not being governed by your own conditioning but really governed by what the odds of loving what you have are yeah that's my summary of a long series i hope you enjoyed this and take a little bit of time to reflect on it slow down because there is always value and there's always a little bit of time to slow down i love you all for listening and i will see you on a more serious topic next time