Julianne Dallas - How Trauma Can Influence Your Relationship Choices

30:03Whereas women, we get a lot of relief when we talk about our emotions. Our brain is wired for oxytocin, we feel more bonded, we feel connected, and we gain a lot of clarity about how we're feeling when we talk about our emotions. But men, in my experience, they don't tend to have the same level of relief. Oftentimes, it can make them feel a little bit more vulnerable than they're willing willing to feel. And sometimes that being too vulnerable doesn't help them go back out in the world in that harsh environment because the world is harsh for men. I mean, in a very interesting way, when you really think about it, one of the biggest complaints that women would have in a relationship is he's not emotionally available.

30:45When we take a child from age seven and we say, boys don't cry, and you shouldn't be emotionally available in a very interesting way, were almost instructing them that to succeed in the world, emotions shouldn't be a big, you know, factor affecting your decisions and your behavior and your performance. And it's quite interesting because if you go back to the caveman years, you know, it was extremely useful for the females sitting behind in the cave to discuss and chat and communicate and connect in so many ways to make sure that this is a nurturing environment for everyone while, you know, sharing your emotions in in the wild while there is a tiger chasing you was going to be problematic.

31:27It's like the one male that would sit in the corner and say, guys, I'm really so tired. Can we sit down now? It's probably going to be either beaten or really, really bullied. So, you know, it's a very interesting natural side of us. But the subtlety and I really love how you look at it is that I actually want to ask you exactly how do you find that line? Because there is a line of what you call leadership that many of our feminine beings would see as control. There is a line in terms of responsibility, for example, that many of our feminine being will consider belittling their ability to make their own choices or decisions.

32:11It's that very fine line. And at the same time, I'll take it the opposite way. you know, you being the feminine being in this conversation and I'm being the masculine being in this conversation. You know, interestingly, there is a line of, you know, being playful or being nurturing or being wild, which are all the characters of the of the feminine, if you want, beyond which the masculine would go like, oh, hold on. You know, that's a little too much for me. So so how how do we show up in a way that is fit for our selected partner? Is your question specifically in regards to how men can show up in their relationship?

32:50You're the feminine being in this. So talk about this from how men should show up. I love it. I love the assertiveness there. So I'll talk again about my, I'll use our, my relationship as an example for this. So I, I have my own business. I, I'm a very independent person in that way. I have a lot of my own ideas. I'm a very strong, passionate person. Like I said, I'm very sensitive. So I have big, big emotional ranges. And I'm definitely not someone who I certainly don't like to be told what to do. And I would say that's not how leadership plays out in our relationship. So going back to, you know, men in modern day culture who tend to feel like the only option they have is to placate their partners.

33:37That's something that Warren doesn't do. I mean, it's actually happened at different points in our relationship. And when it does, the relationship starts to become chaotic very quickly. So there's been points where I've pushed him into that spot where he feels like, oh, there's, you know, it doesn't matter what I say. It's not going to be the right thing right now. So I'm just going to shut my mouth. Right. Which is, it's painful. And ironically, it's not what most women want in their relationship. Right. Right. So and then again, I'll speak for myself, but there's like a nagging that can come out there.

34:13Like, how come you don't talk to me? And in his head, he's thinking, well, you make it really, really hard to talk to you because I can't get it right. Yeah. So the analytical masculine brain will always sort of go through all possible scenarios of what can I say to make the situation better? Because masculine is motivated by doing an achievement. It's not just sharing my feelings. every time I will think about what I want to say to my woman, I will think about what impact that has on my woman. And often, if the situation is emotional, this may mean that the only real answer is to shut the F up, honestly, because, you know, anything I would say would trigger an unexpected emotion.

34:56And so, you know, I don't, I tend to not to do that at all in my relationships. I'm actually quite, yeah, I mean, I'm old, and I've seen enough of life to actually get her to speak more. But it is a very common response. And earlier in my relationships, you know, even in my wonderful marriage for such a long time, it was the only logical way. Because, you know, when you solve point A with a sense of specific response, you're messing up point B. And as you try to fix B, D goes up, you know, down a hill somewhere. And, you know, it's just very, very complicated when the situation is emotional. And then your desire as the masculine partner to find a solution and to fix the problem, the percentage that you'll be able to do that effectively starts to go down and down and down.

35:45And then men will start to feel inadequate and that they're not capable. And so, yeah, there's stonewalling that can happen of just like, okay, well, I'm going to stop trying because I don't want to continue to feel like a failure here because that's not good for me. That's not good for you. Right. That's, you know, women are typically terrified of feeling unloved or being unloved. Right. That's like the secret wound that women have is that they're secretly unlovable. And men have the secret fear that they're not capable, that they can't do it. Right. They don't have what it takes. And I think, I think if women understood that a little bit more, there would probably be like having a little bit more compassion for, you know, that men really, really want to get it right.

36:29And if they don't, if you don't give them avenues to get it right, they're going to stop trying. One of your brilliant posts, I really loved that one, was to basically you spoke about respect and how men want to feel appreciated. And this is their number one priority. And that women would tend to give, give, give, but give what the man doesn't want at all. Right. And then they would, they would wonder why the man is not appreciating all the giving when the man wants a very different thing. Talk to me a little more about that in your experience and in general. Well, I would say that she's not so much perplexed that he's not appreciating it.

37:10The problem with that type of giving that women tend to do is they actually, they have a secret hope that by her giving those things, he's going to feel obliged to then give those same things back to her. So underlying that motive is actually that she wants those things so badly. She wants the love. She wants the affection. She wants to feel deeply seen and cared for. She wants her husband or her partner to plan things, to think about her, to want to help, right, to really be involved. And if she feels like she's not getting that, And especially if she has childhood trauma where she really didn't get any of that, right, where there's maybe some abandonment wounds or she got her needs met consistently by her primary caregivers, but not reliably.

38:03And so she learned to be sort of anxious about getting her needs met. And maybe she's learned at a really young age that the only way to make sure that she's taken care of is to make sure that everyone around her is as happy, as taken care of as possible. And again, this makes sense. It just tends to really not work in a relationship with an adult masculine man. Because like you said, it's the last thing that he wants. He doesn't want to feel nurtured. He doesn't want, you know, to a certain extent, he doesn't want to feel babied. He doesn't want to feel mothered. Mothered. Yes. Different than nurtured.

38:44Right. Thank you for that. Yes. I'm the masculine side here. So I'm representing our viewpoint in this conversation. So mothered is very different. Mothered, you know, I love to be nurtured. And I have to say openly that the more masculine you are as a man, the more you need that nurture because you can't produce it from within you. Nurturing is such a feminine quality, right? And I think the idea is there's a difference between nurtured and mothered. It's quite interesting. The language is actually really important there. Thank you for making that. One of my typical examples is how complex my life is.

39:22My life is so complex, it's almost impossible to explain. I have a million and a half parameters in every decision that I make, about every minute that I dedicate in the day to my mission. I have contacts with tens of thousands of people on a weekly basis, right? And it is so complex that for me to explain it to a woman in my life, whether it's a friend or a partner or a lover or my mother even, okay, would take me around 12 hours to try and explain all of the complexity through which I have to make a decision, right? Mothering is for a woman to come into my life and say, look, you're not doing this right.

40:04The way to do it is to take care of yourself and to take care of yourself, you need to eat quinoa and do this and do that. Oh my gosh. The example that you just gave there is so real. A hundred percent, a hundred percent, very repetitive experience with a feminine woman in my life right the nurturing on the other hand is the tenderness is the love is to complement the drainage that i feel because of the pressures that i get okay which doesn't include the motherly intervention at all it's like and and interestingly when you truly understand the feminine and the needs of the feminine isn't that what she needs when she's in a vulnerable situation right she doesn't want to be lectured she doesn't want to be corrected she doesn't want to be told that she's she needs to do something differently.

40:52And I think that disparity is quite interesting, actually, when we give something that is not needed. I think that's really the trick. And then expect to be paid back and rewarded for giving what is not needed. Right, right. And there's actually a hidden desperation. And even like, I don't think women are doing this with any, you know, malicious intent at all. There can be a little bit of a manipulative thread behind it because they actually want to get something from their giving right if like if I just dump all of this caring and this this mothering into him maybe he'll get the hint and he'll start doing it back to me and to to a masculine man these are the things that I hear over and over and over again that's like the most crazy thing on the planet because it's that's the last thing that they want, right?

41:47And then generally the woman feels exhausted. She feels even more unloved because her strategy is not working, right? So she's kind of telling herself this narrative that if he really cares about me, he'll get these cues of my giving and he'll give me the same things back. And so naturally he doesn't because he just wants to get away from that mothering. He wants to feel like a man. He doesn't want to feel like a baby. So he's like, hey, can you just give me some space, please? And that clashes with the narrative that she's telling herself internally, that if he loves me, he will do this. And so then she really starts to fall apart, right?

42:26Oh, my gosh, you don't love me. You don't see, you don't care about me because you're not doing this and this and this. and then in a relationship both couples get to a standstill where they they just don't know what to do anymore because they're they're like on other opposite ends of an ocean almost and they feel so misunderstood they feel so hurt right because the woman feels like she's giving so much and getting so little and she just feels so unloved and the masculine partner feels like she's not respecting his capability to navigate life on his own. And so he's feeling terribly unloved and probably depressed because he's not feeling respected in his relationship.

43:07And he wants his relationship to be harmonious and deeply connected, just like women do. And that's honestly the place that people get to when they come to work with me is because they're like, okay, what the heck is going on? Because the strategies that I know how to employ here are not working. And so similar to what I started to learn when I met my masculine partner is, okay, maybe changing him is not the avenue here. Maybe there's something that I need to shift in my relationship with myself and how I relate to my own feminine energy, how I take care of myself first. And then because women can give in a relationship, of course, but it's often this giving back, right?

43:56It's giving from an overflow. It's giving from a place of abundance and appreciation instead of this sneaky, manipulative giving of I'm already tired and I'm going to do this for you. And then if you don't get the cue in a week from now, I'm going to, you know, it's going to be world war three. So, which is very real. I mean, I'm sure most people, a lot of people listening can relate to that in some way. Yeah. So let me summarize this in a minute and then ask you the key question. So the summary here is that giving what you want to be given back might have zero value to your partner. Okay. If your masculine partner wants respect and you want love, giving him love is not going to feel like he's been given anything.

44:44Only when you give him respect will he feel that he's been given If he gives you back respect, you're not going to feel anything. Of course, we all need respect. But what you need is to feel loved and safe. Right. And so a very, very interesting place where the relationship breaks is when you give what you want to be receiving, expecting that it has value to the other side. When actually the easiest way in my view is to actually ask the other side what has value to do. So when someone comes to you at this stage, I mean, the typical masculine, again, I'm representing the masculine side here is, you know, that my typical masculine friend or someone who asks for my help will say, but I've solved her problem.

45:26You know, she was telling me that something is bothering her and I gave her the solution. It's a very easy solution. It would take away all of the problems, take away all of the illusion, you know, emotions. And I'm like, idiot. Who told you she wants to solve the problem at all? Right. She only wants to feel that she has you, that she can go to and share and feel seen and feel loved and feel hugged. And she knows that the problem is easy. She knows that she can solve it, but she wants to share. So you giving her all the solutions in the world is not going to make her feel given anything. As a matter of fact, it's going to frustrate her.

46:03So how do you tell someone? How do you explain to someone when they get to the point of giving up? You know, this is not working. I'm doing all I can and it's just not you know there is no response well the first thing and I I work with a lot of women now so when I first started I worked in the military community I worked with a lot of men so it is it's a different approach and I always start with the individual right especially when someone comes to me and they have a relationship dynamic that they want to fix there's often especially with women they'll often tell me a lot about their partner Right?

46:38Like, oh, well, he's doing this and I try to do this, but then he responds like this and I try to do. And the first thing we do is bring back the focus on her. Beautiful. Because what ends up happening is with this kind of desperate overgiving, there's usually a sort of self-abandonment that happens within the woman. Right? And she might have, again, it makes sense for a lot of people because she may have learned to do that because she needed to do that in order to survive at some point in her early childhood, right? So it's very self-protective. It's just not working anymore. So when she, and she's been doing this pattern for so long that from a nervous system perspective, it actually feels quite threatening for her to focus on herself because she may have a lot of loneliness.

47:27She may have a lot of fear, a lot of, some women describe it as like a black hole within themselves that they just, they don't even want to look at. And they get a lot of instant relief when they focus on their partner, because that's what they've always done. That's how they've learned to survive. And it's worked for them. So it's not working anymore. And so creating an environment of safety and co-regulation with another woman, another woman who's traversed that within herself and can kind of be that proverbial, like holding the hand out, so to speak of, you know, I know this feels really unsafe for you to look within, but you can totally do it.

48:11And let's do it one step at a time. So it's reorienting her, that mothering nature and starting to give that to herself so that she's not completely reliant on receiving it from her masculine partner first. And it's not to say that there's no expectation that she should receive nothing in her relationship. Like, of course, like both parties need to be responsible for how they show up in the relationship and how they choose to be with each other. And both parties need to be 100 % in, not 50-50, 100 % in. But if she's completely, completely reliant and desperate to get those needs met first from her partner, now we've created a black hole, right?

48:58Because the more he pulls away, the more desperate she's going to be to mother him with that, again, that unconscious and slightly manipulative expectation that that's the only way she can get her needs met is through him. because when she's trying to do that herself, there's a sense of panic that comes up. And this is, you know, we see this a lot with childhood trauma or emotional trauma. It's very common with abandonment trauma. But I would say you don't have to be traumatized or to have significant trauma in your life to be able to identify with that feeling, you know, pretty deeply. Because how we relate to one thing is how we relate to everything.

49:37And it takes, it's very vulnerable to take full responsibility of how you are in the world. I love this comment so much. Can you expand on this? How we relate to one thing is how we relate to everything. Yeah, well, these, I mean, we're social creatures, right? And connection is a biological imperative, meaning we need connection in order to grow our brain. You know, that's how our species has evolved and survived. It's not optional. We are not lone rangers. I mean, there's some psychopaths out there that might actually, truly, they can be on their own. But as a species, we need connection. And so, our brains are wired to experience the world through the connections that we've received from our primary caregivers.

50:26And once this happens very early, before the age of three, and our brain and our nervous system does this so we can anticipate and conserve energy and expect like okay well this is how I'm going to reliably get that connection or not and so that pattern of relating tends to follow us throughout our entire lives and typically really shows its head when we are in romantic relationships with other people because since our parents, our romantic partnerships are probably the most important and deep relationships that we have, right? The relationships with our parents are very fundamental in shaping and molding who we are and same with who we choose as a romantic partner.

51:16So the patterns of relating that we learned to anticipate in early childhood, we experience the world through that same lens. So how we, like I said in the beginning, how we relate to our money, how we relate to our sense of self, how we relate to, I mean, truly just life itself, like how we experience living is through this lens of the reliability of connection at an early age. so it's when i say that these patterns are really fundamental and core to how we be like it is it is deep some people will describe it when when they come to me and they're kind of describing the problems and how it feels they'll say you know the stuckness that i'm experiencing in every area of my life it feels biological it doesn't matter how much mindset work i do like it feels like this is who I am.

52:15I don't know that there's any other way of being. And so it takes a lot of responsibility, a lot of vulnerability to go to the core of who you are, the core of how you experience life and take a risk in the world that there might be a better way. Because essentially our nervous system, its only job is to keep us alive, right? And predictability and familiarity, the patterns that we know, even if they're really painful, even if they're really destructive, they are familiar and they haven't killed you yet. So from that autonomic perspective, let's keep it going because we don't know what's around the corner, right?

52:59We don't know, again, caveman times, if we're in a new area, new territory, we don't know where the predators are. You know, we don't know if there's a cave bear or, you know, that's why we went out at night, right? That's why, you know, we're, we are out during the day and then we come back in a night and rely on fire to see because the dark, the unknown could mean potentially death. And so when we're rewiring these patterns, they're embedded in your autonomic nervous system. So there, when you try to change them, there can be a big sense of threat that comes up in the body. A big sense of like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

53:40We've been doing this for, you know, however old you are. I'm 32. So, we've been doing this for 32 years. Like, what do you mean you're suddenly going to change now? What if that's worse? What if that gets you hurt? What if this new path you're going to take, even if it initially is better, what if the other shoe is going to drop later on? It's better to stay in what we know. It's better to stay in what's familiar, even if it's painful. And so it takes a lot of vulnerability to take responsibility for that and make a courageous choice anyways, despite that. That is so precious. What you just shared.

54:18I think this truly is the first step of ever changing, right? It's, it is to realize that there are other ways to stay safe, but there are, but that this way is actually not where you should be at all. And I really think, I think that takes me to my next point. Then the problem is, even if when we get to that point, Julianne, I think what ends up happening is that we are so brainwashed by endless messages from all sides. And, you know, just to give some of our listeners some ammunition to curse me. Feminism, for example, right? So modern feminism seems to almost violently block some of those instinctive needs to change.

55:06They'll tell you, you know, they'll tell you, no, don't go there. And I'll be very blunt about this. Not every masculine man is a good man or a real man, right? Like not every man that you fall in love with is going to be reliable and predictable and, you know, and over the long term available, right? And I think that there is that whole concept of in Arabic, we have this proverb, which is very, I find very funny, which is, you know, if soup hurts you because it's too hot, you start to blow at yogurt before you eat it. And I think, you know, this is exactly what most of my very feminine friends would do.

55:46By the way, feminine women friends or gay men friends or feminine, same sex, coupled women and so on and so forth. The feminine side starts to fear the masculine. And then feminism starts to say, yeah, we need to be strong. We need to be independent. Fuck them. We don't want any of them in our life. We don't want to rely on them in any way. We just want to be independent, which means we ourselves have to be a little more masculine just to fill the gap. And that sort of brainwash is, I don't think the market is short of any stupid advice. I think we're flooded with advice that could kill us. So what's your position on all of that?

56:29Well, first of all, I think I really liked what you said, that not every man is a good man, right? And this is true across the board. And it goes back to people wanting to position themselves in camps, right? Everyone is a human being at the end of the day. And whether or not they're a woman, a man, a feminine energy, masculine energy, whatever, you have to take the individual into account, right? And that's true for every relationship because Warren is not just a masculine man. He's a human being. I am not just a feminine woman. I'm also a human being. And there's complexities and nuances to all of that.

57:07So I think it's really important what you said there that, yes, you know, there's some pretty nasty women out there and there's pretty nasty men out there and there's no shortage of them. Yes, I think it's so important because people confuse, you know, they think being for men or being for women means that we're saying all men are, you know, are heroes and all women are angels. And that's certainly not the case, right? Because we're human beings. but I think you know being feminine to that receptive quality and even if we go back to the biology of raising children you know giving birth to children even being pregnant especially the birthing process it's very vulnerable so embracing our feminine energy is very vulnerable it's very tender it's very susceptible to wounding this is just true and because of that women can be very quick to close off their hearts, right?

58:08And one of the biggest things that I, the most painful thing that I think feminism has done to women is to teach them that it's more valuable to be like a man. And all that does is just make women feel ashamed of that innate vulnerability that they have. So they're already maybe guarding their heart with the people that they love and especially their masculine men. And it's already a practice to continue to open their hearts. And then they have the culture telling them that actually you should try to be like a man. It is bad. It's bad to be hurt. It's bad to be vulnerable. It's bad to open up your heart.

58:56It's bad to want a man. Gosh, never want a man because he could hurt you, right? So, never truly need a man, especially because you could get hurt. And so, there's this like weird collective shame that starts to happen around like the beauty in the softness of being a feminine person, feminine woman, a feminine being. Like, it's such a beautiful, tender thing. And you had mentioned earlier in our conversation that, you know, men can't give them that to themselves typically, right? Like it is such a unique and wonderful, precious thing. It's a miracle. I will tell you hands down, it's an absolute miracle for a masculine man that suddenly sees it, right?

59:44not as troublesome, not as an obstacle on the way of carrying another seven kilograms on his back and moving to the kitchen, but rather as for the beauty of what it is. It's an absolute miracle. Absolutely. And I mean, both men and women are able to appreciate beauty, but I had said before too, that the world is a really harsh place for men and the world of men is a harsh place. I think Women don't give enough credit. Like, really, I don't know if you want to be a man. Like, it's pretty harsh. It's pretty intense. And, like, even just a woman, like, appreciating the smell of a flower or her ability to go slower or her ability to just appreciate the day-to-day and to, you know, love, just be a stand for all things tender and beautiful and vulnerable.

1:00:36That's, like, such a relief for men, right? that's like oh my gosh like the world is so harsh thank gosh there's this soft energy to balance it out if there was no women if there was no feminine energy in the world men would just be killing each other all the time i always say that no no it's not only that we would have never been inspired to build anything at all you know i mean i would say this openly i wanted to be a carpenter my whole life. Right. I, you know, growing up, I still am a very, very good carpenter and I love it. I love that life in wood to the point that I graduated top of my class, got like a zillion job offers.

1:01:18And I said, no, I'm just going to start a carpentry workshop until it was time to go and propose and marry my wife. And I simply just started everything that you know about me from my technology career to my, you know, books to everything that I've ever done was because of that shift. There was a reason in my life to shift. Otherwise, you know, McDonald's and without feminine energy in my life, the word quinoa would have never come up. And then, you know, McDonald's would be like wholesome, valuable food that is at an efficient price and life would be fine. Right. I have a problem with quinoa.

1:01:59The reality is that we would never be inspired. The masculine is about doing the feminine is about envisioning and creating and debating and sensing and feeling. And, you know, we've never, we've never had, have had the vision, I think, which is quite, quite something. But how do we tell women that it's safe to not follow that feminism advice? Yeah, it's a good question. And I would say you don't tell them, you show them. Ah, perfect answer. Right. Cause it's again, you know, women, we don't want to be told anything. I think we, there was a point in the conversation that we didn't get completed.

1:02:38And this is a perfect place to reinsert that. But you had asked, you know, how does Warren show his leadership qualities without me feeling like I'm smothered or being controlled? and I would say, you know, he is a stand for what he believes in and he's not apologetic about it. But it has nothing to do with controlling me or manipulating my behavior so that he can feel that way. He just is that way and it doesn't really matter, you know, who's going to challenge him on that. He is very clear on who he is in the world, what he's a stand for and what he's willing to fight for. Isn't that stubborn?

1:03:18I would say it's a quality of stubbornness, for sure. Yeah. And so not everyone would welcome that, don't you think? Hmm. Well, not in our culture. In fact, I would say that he would be cancelled very quickly if he was... I would be too. Have you been cancelled before or tried to be cancelled? No, no. I am too empathetic to upset anyone, I hope. I mean, so if anyone is ever upset by something I said, by the way, you understood it wrong. Because I really do. I honestly in my heart, through my journey in life, I've been wrong so many times that I totally and truly respect that. Yeah, I will take a stand for what I believe in, but I will also openly there.

1:04:09Yeah. But I'll also openly say, and there is a, there is like a 90 % chance I'm wrong. I believe in it strongly. So please respect my conviction. Okay. And I would not open my mouth unless, unless I believe in it strongly, but that doesn't mean I'm smart enough to know that it's right. It's just, it's just my belief and conviction. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I would say in our relationship, everybody kind of knows Warren as having a little bit of a stubborn streak that is definitely true, which has served him in many ways. And sometimes he gets in his own way in that regard. But I think when a man commits to a woman, especially in the cultural climate that we are in, like cancel culture, for example, I think when a man has a strong sense of virtue and morality and a strong sense of what's right and what's wrong, and he's willing to be a stand for that and to protect her and to devote that quality of virtue that he has to showing up for her in that way, it really triggers something primal in women that like, oh gosh, think like, okay, there's, and again, it's a very primal thing.

1:05:27It's not something that is often, you know, registered consciously. It's like for me before feeling that I didn't know I wanted kids. And then And like, I suddenly felt safe to, I was like, oh, this, this is the path that children could, could be a potentiality. I feel that now. You know why, Juliana? It's because intention matters more than action. So it's quite interesting that we sort of can judge someone by what they do or what they say, but we rarely ever allow ourselves to ask ourselves, why are they doing it? Or why are they saying it? And so I think a woman's instinctive sensuality, and by sensuality, I mean the ability to sense everything.

1:06:10The feminine's sensuality is able to detect that even though he might be doing something stupid, he's doing it from the right place. He's doing it because he strongly believes that this is the best thing for me. He strongly believes. And I have to say, in my relationships, one of the most beautiful comments I have ever received in my life was a lovely, lovely, wonderful woman I had in my life that told me, your control sometimes is my freedom. And it is quite interesting. I'm not very controlling, but when I am, I am very controlling. So, you know, I tend to allow someone to be totally free. But then when I feel that this is very dangerous or really immoral or whatever, there are certain boundaries in my life, I would take a very strong stand and I would put my foot down like your situation with Warren, for example.

1:07:03And I think it's that feeling that I'm not doing this to control you. It's not that my ego is trying to just tie you to a wall somewhere and say, don't go anywhere, you're mine. it's that I have a masculine duty to take charge of certain things. And the only way for that masculine duty to manifest really is for me to be able to take decisions. And sometimes those decisions may not be what you like, but I'm carrying the quota. So I'm going to make the decision. Yeah. And well, I think a lot of women will be very, very trusting and willing for you to take that leadership if you also listen to her right it doesn't mean you have to take her like that you're making your decisions based off what she tells you but again women when they feel seen and loved and connected they are so much more open to let you lead because that's really what they need women don't necessarily like women can solve many of their own problems but one problem that they can't solve on their own is to be listened to for their emotions, right?

1:08:12When they feel heard and seen and in communicating about their inner landscape and the things that matter to them, that is one of their biggest problems is that they really want to be seen and felt and loved for all of that inner complexity. And when she feels that, it's like, oh there's like you just solved a thousand problems just in listening and so i think to your point there's this maybe false cultural understanding that in modern day that leadership means like i'm gonna do this is what we're doing and you don't have a say in it it's like absolutely not it's absolutely you know you know when when a woman feels loved and seen she's going to trust she's going to trust you and and there's even going to be some wiggle room for you to fuck it up too you don't have to be perfect right but especially if you're if you are you know she's able to meet most of her primary needs on her own and then you are you know you are happy to provide and to to give to her and to listen to her she will be so appreciative of your leadership and And you know, respect the choices that you make because she admires you because you make her feel safe, right?

1:09:29In how you navigate the world. Beautiful. Yeah. About testing Julianne. I love that bit because again, with age, I've learned to really enjoy it, but as a younger man, and I think most men, most of my friends will struggle with the idea of a woman will first say, do you love me? And then they'll say, yes, I love you. And then she would say, do you love me again? Then you say, yes, I really love you. Then she will say, and if I kicked you, will you love me? And then you would say, yeah, I would love you even if you kicked me. So she would kick you. And then, you know, you would ask, do you still love me?

1:10:09And the testing never ends. Like if we, if we traveled through space 600 years and fell on Mars and there was very little oxygen left and you know I needed the kiss would you still kiss me okay for men that's actually quite confusing like I just said two minutes ago that I love you and I brought you flowers on the way in and I told you that I missed you in the morning what's happening there so in the same way that men's secret fear is that they are inadequate and therefore they love to hear that the things that they do are appreciated. Women's secret fear is that she is actually unlovable or she's unworthy of love.

1:10:57And this is a weird thing that just exists for men and women. I'm going to make a statement here for all the women listening. Oh my God, you're so lovable. Honestly, like you're so lovable. You're such an amazing creature. As a matter of fact, I think the problem with men is that all of you are lovable. That's why men struggle. and you're so loved, keep going. Yeah. Well, and you bring up a good point because I think men are, especially the men in our lives, right? The men that choose to love us and commit to us are just truly flabbergasted that we would ever have that sense of unworthy, of being unworthy of love.

1:11:36So we never think to affirm that, right? But it's something that never, it's just a, it's like a fear. It's maybe it's even biological. I'm not sure. but because this in women they're always looking to reassure like they're always looking for reassurance of that right i was reading somewhere the other day it just makes me laugh about how uh you know the women like oh i just want you to tell me that you love me and the husband's thinking well i told you i loved you on our wedding day why do i have to say yeah i'll update you in case of any change yeah if i don't love you anymore i'll let you know but it's still true but women it's like a soothing balm to them that they not only do they need it but they want it often right and it really helps them continue to show up in that vulnerability and that tenderness and that softness so it's like okay if i reveal this if i trust you at this level if i let you into my world at this level if I show you my vulnerability here do you still love me is this still and that probably probably never will never stop but I think women can get much better and maybe have more grace in the ways that they ask right in the ways that they because too much testing becomes you know you're walking on eggshells right and then for men of course too much of that and they feel disrespected because like do you not trust me I mean I'm showing up for you I'm I'm here with you I I show you I love you in many different ways throughout the day like do you know is how come that's not enough right and they can feel disrespected in that way so the ways in which a woman can ask for reassurance make a big difference to you know how how basically translating that need to her masculine partner of like, this isn't actually about you.

1:13:34This is, you know, this is just something that I will continue to probably desire. And also I'm so grateful when I get like, so grateful when I get it from you, because I think it's something that you had said, you know, letting the women know that they're so lovable and they are. And I think it's valuable for the men to know that in most committed relationships, the men are the heroes, right? Like the women put so much faith and trust and they, like the men can truly save the day. And women know that they can. They know that the, how their man shows up just can truly change her world. And she knows this and she believes this, which is also why I think women can be a little bit too, they can be a little bit too critical because they don't realize that their men don't know that the men don't know that you really, truly trust that they actually, if, if they wanted to, they could do all of the things that you, that you want them to do perfectly.

1:14:40Women believe that women believe like my man can, can do it all. He can, he can show up perfectly because he's that great, but he's just choosing not to, which is so painful and untrue right and so then they like hey how come you're not doing this how come you're how come you're not doing this or when you did this how come you didn't do it like that yeah which can be which can be quite painful for a man because let's talk about reframing for a second because when you say that a woman's testing all the time or the feminine is testing all the time one very big lesson for me was to constantly remind myself that her asking means that she She wants me in her life.

1:15:19It means that she cares. It means that she's so vulnerable that she really, really is all over me almost. That little question of, do you miss me? It's literally saying, I am painfully missing you. And I think if you reframe it that way in your mind as a man, it makes a mega difference. I would say, however, also to the feminine that, remember, the needs of the masculine is to feel appreciated that he's masculine enough, that he's able to do things for you and to feel desired. And I think a woman could probably put a tiny bit more effort because the man will never ask. So that the opposite side, no man will ever go to his woman and say, do I not turn you on anymore?

1:16:03Because that in itself is emasculating, right? So there is, even if you're tired or even if you're not in the mood or even if you're, you know, you're not really in that mindset right now, it might actually be very useful, just like you constantly feel that you want to be reassured that you're loved and that you're missed and so on and so forth to somehow reassure him and say, hey, by the way, you're such a man. I really think that you're amazing for me. I really think you're doing amazing things for me. I may be tired because of life's pressures, but I still desire you and I still want you or maybe even better desire him and want him.

1:16:40And I think that would, would go a much further way. There seems to be a lot lost in translation, Gillian. And I think if you really ask me, if you drop it down to the level of most good men, most good women, I think the majority of the problems come in translation. I, yeah. And I think that's probably been true since the dawn of time. Yeah. And because it's, it's, really weird honestly i mean no i'm sure men are from mars women are from venus that that popular book it's so true we truly are on opposite ends of the spectrum and although there's so much that we complete each other in so many beautiful ways and we complement each other in so many beautiful ways there's inherent challenges that come along with that i mean the way that women interact with other women in the way that men interact with other men is completely different.

1:17:35And so it's, I mean, it's not uncommon, and also quite understandable to approach your partner, assuming that they function at the same, in the same basic ways as you do. And oftentimes, that's wrong. Yeah, it's really, really, very different. And there's a lot that gets lost in translation. And there's a lot that is miscommunicated for sure. You know, sometimes I use the example to explain that for the masculine to appreciate the feminine, imagine that you're constantly living in the city and then you finally get your chance to go out to nature. And for the feminine to appreciate the masculine, imagine constantly living on a farm and then suddenly coming to civilization, right?

1:18:25Not that one or the other is better or different or that one is more associated. I mean, it seems to me that big cities are all about doing and process and action and so on. They don't have beauty and charm and feelings in them. So they are a little more masculine, if you want, as living environments than nature, but that neither can live without the other. You know, that in a very interesting way in our modern world, it's that beauty of like, oh my God, I so appreciate nature because I'm living in the or I so appreciate the convenience because, you know, and the culture and so on, because I'm always alone in nature, I think is a very interesting contrast.

1:19:06I don't know what to tell you other than this has been one of my favorite conversations of slow-mo this year by a very large margin, actually. In an interesting way throughout this conversation, Julianne, I was just thinking, oh man, I love how I trust my instincts. and I will invite every one of our listeners to please take your partner and listen to this again. Okay. I think that the reality of how beautifully, Warren, I love you, man. I really do. I think you're such an incredible good man to get to earn the love of a wonderful woman the way that she did. And Julian, I really, really am amazed by how open you are to your vulnerability and your femininity.

1:19:53It's really inspiring. It's really beautiful. And to be able to articulate it in such an open way, I really believe that a lot, at least a lot of what I would consider incredible women would benefit from being open to this, from being open to truly digging deep and celebrating that vulnerability, which is celebrating that. He called it wounding. I thought that was a beautiful way of describing the fragility and the delicacy, how delicate the feminine is. Beautiful, truly beautiful. I think a lot of people listening to this would want to find you. So where can they find you? So the main place is on Instagram, which you found me there as well.

1:20:35Embody by Jules, trusting your instincts. Say this again, embody by Jules. E-M-B-O-D-Y-B-Y-J-U-L-E-S. Good. And I would truly love to have you again, if you're open to the idea. Oh, it'd be my pleasure. Yeah, this was fun. Really fun. Yeah, I will stalk you more. I will even follow you on Instagram, believe it. Yeah, I rarely ever follow anyone on Instagram, but I really think that there is a lot of such a beautiful, tender way of explaining things to you that is really needed in the world. So, yeah, and I'm so grateful that you had to find your trauma to be able to discover that. Yeah. So there's a silver lining in everything if you look for it, for sure.

1:21:29Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's really a privilege. It's a lot of fun. And for all of you listening, I think this is a very interesting conversation for anyone who is not willing to be truly open to their true nature, whatever that true nature is. Wherever you are, if you're just so tightly trying to stick to the middle, away from the polarity of the masculine or the feminine, maybe you should consider a different place. So maybe rewind, listen to this again. Maybe get a partner or a friend from the opposite side of the polarity to listen to it with you and pause every now and then and think about and discuss our differences.

1:22:13I will agree with Julianne. I think there is nothing more beautiful than a harmonious union of the two. There is almost a superpower to being able to see the world through the eyes of the feminine when I'm masculine. And I'm guessing that if this is the way I feel, that others on the feminine side of the spectrum would feel the same way too. It's just that ability to respect and harmonize and work together to bring each other's values. I will ask you, as I have changed now to a focused, targeted person, to do help me spread this podcast. The more I get your feedback about how different it is, the more I feel that it's worthy of spreading.

1:22:57so rated five stars on your podcast player please find me on youtube or go that official which is my channel where we also publish the podcast every week subscribe and click the alerts thingy the little bell post about it on instagram tell your friends about it and help me spread it because i if you like it i think others would like it too and i would really appreciate your help. The idea of slowing down a little bit every week to reflect on something that is by a true human, not necessarily always a celebrity, is I think something that the world really needs. It doesn't matter how busy you are this week, there is always a tiny, tiny bit of time to slow down.

1:23:42I love you all for listening and I will see you next time.