Mona Kattan - How Eastern & Western Values Made One Of The Most Successful Women In Dubai

30:53So it's a lot of physics, chemistry. It's engineering. You'd probably be an amazing perfume designer. That's your future. And by the way, Moe's Place smells phenomenal. Oh, thank you. Phenomenal. We need to make a happy perfume with you. Although Clinique, I think, has one. So I think they have it trademarked, but we'll find it's all for happy perfume. Yeah, my ex-wife, Nibel, appreciated the smells very much. So good in your house. So I, so I, yeah, I'm, I actually, I met a friend the other day for the first time. So we knew of each other, but we didn't know each other. And we met at a concert of, you know, I had an extra ticket and I had two other friends coming.

31:35So I said, yeah, you can, you know, invite someone. And they said, let's invite Amy. And she hugged me for the first time because we know of each other. You're such a great hugger too. Yeah. Oh, thank you. You really are. And her first sentence was, oh my God, you smell so good. You really do. I have to say this landed with me as one of the best compliments I've ever received from someone I have never met in my life. I was like, oh, that's nice. It is nice. Yeah. It is nice. And I think you definitely are a sensitive person like me. I am, yeah. And I feel like people who are sensitive and emotional really appreciate perfumes because it's the most, it's scientific.

32:14It's the most moving sense we have. It's more moving than touch. Well, maybe not touch. Okay. But it's more moving than like hearing something visual. Like it's more moving. Like the sense of smell when you smell something that reminds you of someone, like you're instantly like taken away. Yeah. You know, to a memory, to a moment, to an occasion. And even if it has no relation to memory, like if you smell Jasmine, you're going to be relaxed. If you smell lavender, you're going to be relaxed. If you smell bergamot, you're going to be energized. If you smell apple, you'll probably be energized. Like it's, if you smoke patchouli, you might, some people might feel sexy.

32:51Depends on the person. What's that? Patchouli. Sandalwood. Sandalwood. Oh, that is actually true. It's again, subjective, but generally speaking, like woody notes are more sexy. On women or on men? Both. I think so. Because I was gifted, again, I was gifted a perfume once by a girl I was dating at the time that had sandalwood in. I find it very sexy. Yeah. And I promise you, I kid you not. Okay. Whenever her friends showed up and I had that perfume on, they would literally go like, oh my God, he's so sexy. And I'm like, what? I'm the same guy that you were, you know, kicking yesterday. And something happens with that, right?

33:32Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. So I would never wear pistachio gelato. You're gonna wear it? No. Yes. But that's the question. You're gonna love it. Is there any common agreement across humanity of what is nice, what is not? No. Right? Except maybe vanilla. I don't like vanilla in perfumes. I actually know you have a lot of vanilla in perfumes. But I'm going to change your mind. I'm going to change your mind. Let me be very open. Thank you, Sam. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come in. Sure. Thank you. Special guest. Thank you. By the way, these both have sandalwood in it. So, oh yeah, these two. So let's not have those now.

34:16No, I want you to try it. So the, you know, the idea to me, anything that is food, I don't think should be a perfume. Just wait. I don't like vanilla. I don't like cinnamon. I don't like in perfumes. Don't like anything. I love it in perfumes. Or in candles, by the way, in scented candles. I'm going to cry. Is that true? I'm going to change your mind. It's okay. Okay. That's okay. Right, people, here is me. Trying pistachio gelato. It's a pretty bottle. Thank you. Okay, I'm trying pistachio gelato. If this doesn't work, I'm going to have to go wash my hands and stuff. Oh, no. Okay. But let it dry down because it's got to give it some time.

35:02That's not pistachio gelato. It is pistachio gelato. It is a tiny bit of really good pistachio gelato lands on your hand after you've had a perfume of, what is this?

35:18There is...

35:23Okay, so you see now there is a bit of orange blossom or something like that. Yes, there are some florals. A lot of flowers. Geranium, we have jasmine. We have a lot of, we have Lily of the Valley. It's a very like complicated fragrance. Okay, I'll change. We do have pistachio gelato, so pistachio with milk. We have rum. It does smell like that. We have cardamom. We have Turkish delight. We have cotton candy, marshmallow whipped cream. Honestly, it smells so sweet. Yeah. Right? It's like, I don't want anyone to bite me. Well, there's a warning. you might have somebody bite you honestly it could happen you know what you just did to me what so i've i've always had a very very set of scents that i loved okay and they are as everything in my life the result of a very very well thought through because my whenever you smell me, it literally describes who I am.

36:29It describes that very unusual diversity of being Eastern by tradition, born here, aligning with the values here for a very long time, and then being Western educated my whole life. And so I always mix two scents, at least, at least I always wear two perfumes. One is very Western and one is very Eastern. And the Eastern tones will always have a bit of sandalwood in them, a bit of oud maybe, a bit of musk and so on. And so for the first time, you actually got me curious to experiment a little bit. Yay! That's wonderful. Do you wear the same perfumes all the time? If you have three and three, so three Arabic and three sort of Western, you have endless varieties.

37:14Combinations, yeah. Endless combinations. You know, it's funny because KLE, I actually, when I created it, it was to bring East and West together. That's so interesting. Because for me, I've always loved perfume since I was a kid growing up in the States. But when I moved to Dubai, that was when like my mind was blown. And they smell amazing here. And I was like, what is this? Like the concept, the rituals, the way people wear perfume, it's like with so much intention. Yeah. It's so like luxurious. It's so cool. So the goal with KLE was like creating scents that have like inspiration from the Middle East, but making them a little bit more Western, like in the middle, because I don't want it to be too polarizing where people can't wear it and then they feel like it's just too much.

37:57But I want to like share the Middle Eastern culture with the world too. So I feel like you're going to like them if you play with them. But I think experiment, like mix things together, get out of your comfort zone. That's what I never do. You have to get out of your comfort zone. So because also when I was young, I was asthmatic. I was very asthmatic. Yeah, so I was very, very... And it went away? Oh, yeah. Oh, wow, that's great. Yeah, so I was very careful about which perfumes I come near because sometimes it would irritate me, basically. But I have to say, this is interesting. Really? I'm so happy.

38:34Can I open this one? Open, open. I'm sorry, I brought these for you and I'm opening them now. So this one hasn't launched yet. It's launching end of the month, but it's around the sandalwood note. Oh, that's mine. Yeah, both of them actually. I mean, I have to say, one of the things that you always do is... That has been dealt with too, actually. One of the things you always do is that you're always unisex, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I find this a bit more feminine than masculine. Yeah. What was the other black one I used from this? Elixir. Yeah, that was a little more masculine than feminine. Yeah.

39:03Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know how I can say that, honestly, because how can you even define in your mind what is masculine, what is feminine? and you know, why is a scent maybe more suitable for a manly man? Is it softness? Is it playfulness? From what I've seen, the marketing around fragrances. Do you love that one? Oh man, that is me for sure. It's called The Wedding? Yes. Oh, I have an omen. Oh God. That one's Velvet Santal. So I worked on that with Hassan. This one is whiskey. it has um it does have a lot of interesting notes in there no whiskey but and then this is called silk santal so they're both um they're both with the sandalwood note you can pair them together they actually work really beautifully together um but it's supposed to be like yeah you like it as well oh yeah i think this is the kind of uh of thing that uh would get women to hug me and say, oh, he's so sexy.

40:09Yeah. Which is, in a way, very flattering, but also very disappointing. Stop it, Mo, you're crazy. Do you know how many girls I know who have a crush on you? Don't tell me that. Why? I've been pondering love and romance. I'm actually thinking of going back to being a monk. No. Oh, my God, yes, yes. Mo, you have to share yourself with the world. With the whole world? One person. Sorry, I take that back. Like I spoke, but I mean, I do believe like, of course, it's, there's moments and seasons to be single. You know, there's a lot of self-discovery and growth you can do when you're on your own. And there's something really special about that.

40:48But I also feel like having a partner is also very important. And having, having a partner that fits the journey is very important. Very important. True. My journey is very peculiar. Yeah. Very peculiar. You are peculiar. You're a very interesting, unordinary person, which is amazing, but it doesn't mean you can't find someone who would be supporting, loving, and happy to go on that journey with you. I could, but she wouldn't be a woman. No, I'm joking. You don't know that. I'm joking. You don't know that for sure. You don't know. No, I mean, in a very interesting way, I think it's been a very...

41:27I've been blessed with amazing women. I'm not going to lie. okay and i have been very generous and loving and giving and manly when i need to be very gentle when i need to be i'm okay yeah but i have to admit and i'll say that very openly i am married to my mission i'm married to my mission to the point you be both like for example with hassan i can i've been in relationships where the person was in competition with my my mission which did not work of course but then with hassan he's such a supportive person he's never made me feel bad about putting my mission first he's a man but women can do that i have not found that i would do that for hassan i did that when all my previous relationships supported them one billion percent yeah you know if anything i think i helped them get there faster because like with the right support someone can make you feel so you know encouraged and you have that stability, that core to keep you going.

42:32So I would have to say you just need to keep looking. I would have to try and change the topic. Or maybe you just, maybe it's also what you're bringing out in the relationship. Because I think a woman, if you make her feel important enough. Of course I do. Then she will be okay. She wants more of me. Maybe you're irresistible. No, no, but that's wonderful in every possible way. That's a testimony to both of us, right? But the problem is I don't have more of them. But maybe. Maybe it's also they didn't, the people you've experienced relationships with in the past, maybe they didn't have their own mission.

43:09And I think that's so important. Like, you know, I've been in relationships before where the person maybe didn't know what they were doing in their lives, felt very lost. And then seeing someone so driven, so motivated can make people feel worse about not knowing what they want, right? So you knowing exactly what your mission is, being so dedicated, so driven, and it's something so meaningful to you, I think someone can only appreciate that respect that if they have something too. So maybe it's also that. Maybe they wanted you to fill their void they had, and that's not your problem. You can't fill anyone's void.

43:46They have to know what they need to figure out in their life to make them feel motivated. You know, like they can't throw that on you. Maybe they were. Maybe they were like, you know, maybe you just need to find someone who has a deeper mission like you. I'm a bit speechless. How does a woman find her mission? I think everybody needs to do soul searching to find out what their why is and spending time reading the right books, doing the right homework and understanding yourself. And I also believe missions do evolve over time. I am very different to what I was 10 years ago, and I'm sure I'll be different 10 years from now.

44:25And evolving is healthy. It's great. It's part of growth. But I think you need to find somebody who wants to know what their mission is. A lot of people, most people are fine just being ordinary, watching TV in their spare time, hanging out in their spare time, gossiping in their spare time. You're clearly someone who wants to talk about ideas, not events, not people. like you want to talk about ideas, you want somebody who's stimulated, you need to just find someone who's like your match, you know, because if you do find someone who's mission driven too, and it can be a different one, it doesn't have to be the same one, you know, I think they won't need you to fill a void they have.

45:04Because everybody should be looking for their mission. Because everybody will vibrate higher if they're like mission driven. So I was, the first time I taught Soul for Happy was second time. The first time I taught, I taught at Stanford University, and then I went to Hong Kong Technical University, which is the largest technical university in Asia. And I taught there for one day, nine hours. And at the end of the day, someone walked to me and said, you did not choose this mission. I said, what do you mean? And she said, this mission chose you. And she left. Damn. And honestly, so to me, that was a very, very, very serious redefinition of purpose for me, because it seems to me that each of us wakes up in the morning and starts searching and says, I need to find my purpose.

45:57I need to find why I'm here. I need to find the mission and so on. And it seems that it works the opposite way. It seems like Ali used to teach me, you know, that if you keep improving your little world, if you keep working on yourself, if you keep working on your relationship to others, if you keep, you know, then you will, at one moment, you will be ready. And when you're ready, your mission will choose you. It's very, very different. Interesting. I feel that. And I have to admit my mission on AI now, for example, which is consuming a good 65 % of my time, believe it or not. What is your mission with AI?

46:37I believe our world needs a wake-up call. And what are you going to do? I can't do anything, but I think if our world is united, we can. My entire message is very open that we are raising a new form of being. and this new form of being if it magnifies humanity humanity as as we are now sucks yeah so so honestly we have to improve i have to be honest i haven't read i haven't read scary smart yet i don't know much about ai i'm not gonna lie i'm kind of like a newbie there it is scary like hearing about how technology is changing the future but i feel like you know it's also our are jobs to be a role model to the children you know the future to like live their lives and um you can't avoid technology right like it's not going to go away yeah it's inevitable and also in our times we were glued to the tv we can't lie but the tv is not as intelligent and the tv is not giving birth to other tvs so so so we'll take a scheduled programming break here for mona to read the book.

47:43No, but actually, if anyone hasn't read Scary Smart, I had two podcasts recently. So if you spend two hours of your time, either on the Stephen Bartlett podcast, episode 252, or on Tom Bailey's podcast, the Impact Theory, which was the last episode that went super, super viral. Like, so Stephen's, I think is now six million views or whatever. So you guys make a great duo, He's a fantastic, fantastic human being. So intelligent, so smart. And every time somewhere around an hour in, I find myself answering things that I told myself, and I'm very good with my brain. I told myself, I'm not going to say those things.

48:27Okay. And I told myself cliches that if Steven asks me that question, I will answer with that cliche to avoid it. And I find myself blabbering away. He's so good. Okay, now I need to go watch those podcasts. No, but yeah, I think the one with Stephen is, both are amazing. I also did one, I mean, there are quite a few coming, but I would encourage every one of our listeners here to actually listen to my view on AI because it's a very important wake-up call. Mona, so where did all of this start? Which part? How did you become from moving here at age 17 to starting so many businesses, being so successful at them?

49:08Oh, thank you. I mean, I'm not successful at all. You are. Overall, it's all about the overall. Exactly. That's a good advice. So one of the things that I have noticed actually about the region, especially Saudi Arabia now, that Saudi's evolving and women are having their place in society in a very impressive way, is that there is a different style to a woman entrepreneur to fit in a business environment that is mostly masculine by history, basically. So do you have any tips for a woman that wants to realize a business dream? Anything that you can remember along the path that made your life successful, your business life successful?

49:45I mean, to be honest. And hold on. Before you go there, did you guys see how I managed to switch away so elegantly from my love life? We're going to go back to that later. We're definitely going back there later. After the podcast, we're going to have that over coffee. Let's do it. Yeah. But, you know, I think number one, I'm not successful at everything. I've failed so many times, and I'm sure I'll continue failing. I think the number one piece of advice I would give to anyone is just never give up on trying. It doesn't mean you shouldn't give up on some projects. Some projects are just not meant to be, and you have to know when to walk away and move on and start a new chapter.

50:26But just don't give up on trying if that's what you want. I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur since I was a kid. Um, you know, I grew up with very like humble beginnings. My father, you know, was a professor in the States. In the beginning, he had a green card, so he didn't even have a citizenship. So, you know, he got a very low salary supporting like a family of four or five, you know, children. So, um, you know, it was tough. And my father always told me and my sisters and my whole family, like, I can support you with your needs, your basics, but anything that you want, you have to get on your own.

50:58So I've had that mindset of like, I need to work for myself if I want anything in life. And I'm so happy that my father instilled that in me to like work hard, be dedicated, and also to be independent. Like, even though I did think I was going to get married at like 18 and start a family young, I did. I really thought so. I thought so. You know, I told my mom when I turned 18, I was like, I want to get married now, find me somebody. And like, that didn't work out, but probably a blessing in disguise. But I've always wanted to work hard. And I think part of it's also like going through that little period of depression that I had at 13, falling in love with Tony Robbins and his, you know, his audio books, and then becoming obsessed with self development.

51:42Like, I think that just made me look into like rags to riches stories, learn about how people made something out of nothing. And I've always looked up to entrepreneurs because like they're problem solvers and they're creating something out of nothing. And I find that a bit magical. So I've always been obsessed with entrepreneurship. Even when I went to university, like, you know, I told my dad when I decided to go to college, like I wanted to study fashion because I knew I always wanted something creative. I love like art, creativity. He was like, do finance. He's like, you know, you need to have.

52:13Yeah. He was like, no, you're not going to do fashion. You're going to do finance or something that like you can have to fall back on in case it doesn't work out. And my, my dad is very risk adverse. He's never had a business. He's always been a professor. You know, he's always had to have something that had stability because he didn't have an option to like experiment growing up. So I did study finance and I'm happy I did because it taught me a lot, which I'm sure if I didn't have that backbone, I probably would not be where I am today. But I always knew I wanted to work for myself. Like my first real job, like I got my, my first job at 14, but I was like working in restaurants, like the average American job in high school, restaurants, clothing stores, like ice cream stands, like any job I could get, I would take.

52:56But when I had my first career job, it was an investment banking. And I knew like by the first month I was like, this is torture. I can't work in a company where you're one number of like tens of thousands of people. Like I just felt lost. I felt like I didn't make an impact. I felt like I wasn't driving anything. I was just like, I could do nothing and they wouldn't even know. Like, it's just so boring. Like I'm a hungry person. I like, I like to do, I like to make impact. And, um, yeah, I think understanding yourself is important. I think my core, my core values are spirituality connection and achievement.

53:32So I'm obsessed with achievement. Like I like to do things like even on my time off, I like to watch podcasts. I like to watch documentaries. I like to learn. You know, I don't like doing nothing or just watching Netflix. Like, it's just not who I am. And I think part of it was like the wiring of my parents. Like, I think all of us are, you know, part of our upbringing, right? Like, my dad is a workaholic because he had to be. My mom is very religious. So between the two of them, they, like, really shamed us for having fun. Like, if I was ever like, oh, I want to go to the movies with my friends, my dad would be like, flashlet.

54:08You're going to be a failure. life. And I was like, really? I just want to go to the movies. And he was just like, yeah. So I think that's part of it too. That's part of why I'm so driven. I don't know how to switch off, but I also don't want to anymore. I like being productive. So do you think switching off has merits as well? Now I do switch off, but it's like to reflect, to look at myself, to understand myself. I feel like I'm looking in the mirror. Really? Oh, yeah. I feel that way a lot when you talk to you. I'm like, I'm the same person. It's so interesting because I actually, so I've been watching Netflix recently, but you can easily see my fingers going to the documentary section.

54:51Same. Yeah. I mean, it is, it's, it's almost, I mean, of course there's always a place to watch like a car show or fantasy or whatever. My therapist actually made me do that once. She was like, you need to start watching series just for fun. She's like, stop watching to learn. And I was like, no. But learning is fun. I know, I said that too. But she's like, no, you just need to watch something just because, like without an intention to like get something out of it. That's my stand-up comedies. I watch stand-up too. Yeah, stand-up comedies are like a staple. Same, I love them. Yeah, four times a week, five times a week before I go to bed.

55:25I love them too. Yeah. I don't like the rude ones, but I like it. There are so many good ones actually now. When you're working so hard and you're succeeding sometimes, you're failing sometimes, do you see any finish line at all? No. Interesting, right? Yeah. Very interesting. So one of the things that is very common across many of the people that I know are very successful is they don't have that goalpost that keeps moving. So I actually, people think that I'm working for one billion happy to try and get to one billion. Actually, I don't care really. If I get to another 50 million to five billion, I don't know.

56:04Okay. Inshallah. Yeah. Or if I continue, I think it's quite interesting that most of the people that I know that are very successful are working because one, they love what they do. Two, they feel that they're making a difference. And three is because they want to be able to do the best that they can. Yeah. And the best that you can, interestingly, keeps improving the more you do the best that you can. Absolutely. No, I agree with you 100%. And yeah, you have to have a mission bigger than yourself, right? Like your mission is super clear. Like you want to make people happy, which is such a beautiful mission.

56:38Like I commend you for that so much. Best mission ever. Best mission. Ever. The best. Yeah. You know, for me, I'm not going to lie. There was a period in my life where I felt like empty and like, especially when there was a moment, you know, when we, we raised capital, we had a moment where we had like an opportunity to retire basically from like a financial perspective. and at that period like all of us the whole family kind of was like we went through a phase of like why are we working so hard you know like why and then you had to search for meaning which is hard and then I was like why am I working so hard why am I still going why don't I just retire and like go to different beaches different times of the year and just relax take it easy like if now I don't have to work hard because my whole life I felt like I had to and then it became a choice and then I had to search for something bigger than myself and then some at some point it was like, oh, I want to work hard for my team.

57:32I want to give back to my team. I want to make sure they have a great life and like be to be able to pay well to be able to like, give insurance, the best insurance, the best healthcare pay for their children's education, like things like that was meaningful to me. And that gave me a sense of purpose at some point. And then I wanted more too. And I was like, what am I searching for? And figuring out your why is it's hard. But you need to do it. I realized I love making people feel good. Like I love it. It drives me. So I do feel like through fragrance, I am making people feel good because it's a very emotional thing.

58:06And I do see a lot through like content, our community, people are like, your perfume makes me feel so sexy or happy or whatever. And that makes me feel happy. But I'm not going to lie. Sometimes I'm like, what am I going to do that's more meaningful in five years or 10 years? And I do have ideas, but I also feel like right now I'm where I need to be. You're amazing. You're amazing. It is so, it's again so paradoxical. Why? By the way, paradox, being paradoxical is the core of the feminine. So the main, main, when I'm looking to understand the feminine, the number one and the number two probably equal.

58:45One is flow and the other is paradoxical thinking or paradoxical being. The idea of you being so driven, but also driven for good. The idea of you not knowing, but still trying. These are very interesting ways of living. It's so, so, so inspiring. Do you believe that you're more Eastern or Western? I don't really feel like I fit in anywhere, except Dubai. Which is both, isn't it? I feel like that's where nobody fits in. like Dubai is the land of misfits everybody fits in because like not fitting in makes you fit in like Dubai is the land of like you know what's my favorite thing about this city truly and honestly you go to any cafe and there is a woman in a miniskirt sitting next to a woman in abaya sitting next to a woman in a sari sitting next to a woman in a business attire so amazing and they're all talking to each other and nobody's judging anyone and they're all good friends.

59:48So inspiring. Absolutely love it. Me too. When Ali Habibi was alive, he went to school. We came back and forth and traveled and changed. You know, I was changing career all the time. And he came back to school and then a few days later he says, Papa, I met someone at school. He seems to be a very good friend. And I was like, who? And he said, Max. And I said, typical out conditioning. And I said, and where is Max from? and Ali answered and said he's from my classroom and I said no no I meant which country is he from and his answer was so eye opening he said I don't know and I don't care should I care I was like no baby you shouldn't care I'm wrong you should not care at all I think this place is a bit like that the reason for my question is I was wondering if you believe you would have succeeded more if you had stayed in the US because the US is such a much bigger market.

1:00:45I don't think I'd be where I am today at all. If I wasn't here in Dubai, no. Why? I find Dubai very inspiring. Like to me, I'm so inspired by Dubai. To me, Dubai is a startup. Like Dubai is like a company. And I feel like I benchmark a lot of my values on Dubai values. It's about continuously improving the city. It's about kindness. It's about happiness. They have a happiness minister. Like they're so cutting edge. They're so innovative. They're like, their standards are so high. They're always pushing themselves to grow. So I think, A, I was inspired by living here because it's like every year it was growth.

1:01:26B, I think one thing Dubai teaches you is like nothing's impossible. Like I think just having that limitless thinking is very inspired by Sheikh Mohammed before his time, Sheikh Rashid. You know, like I think they're so powerful. They're so driven. And still humble and down to earth, you know? So like I find them very inspiring. And also setting up a business here as a Muslim, as a person of color, even though I don't have much melanin for an Arab girl, but like it's a lot easier than being in the States, you know? Is that true? I think so. Even as a woman, I think you're actually more encouraged as a woman here in Dubai.

1:02:07Like there's so much woman empowerment here. It's not everywhere in the US. Like I grew up in towns. I didn't grow up in a big city. I grew up in Dartmouth, Massachusetts, Cookville, Tennessee. Like I didn't grow up in LA or New York. So like, I don't think I would, definitely wouldn't be here if it wasn't for moving to Dubai. Big statement. Yeah, for sure. 100%. There was a statistic recently that actually the highest ratio of women entrepreneurs to women population in the world is in Saudi Arabia. Wow. Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah. In a way of, you may think about it and say, it's because they had no way in the, you know, 10 years ago, a woman had no way of actually working full time in a normal corporate environment.

1:02:51So they started their own thing. Yeah. But it is also quite, quite eye opening to see how I tend to believe and I don't know, I don't want to be quoted on this, but I tend to believe that in the next 10 years, the places that will have the highest ratios of women in power will be the Middle East? I have no doubts. Especially like Dubai, the UAE. Like I feel like Dubai is kind of leading the frontier, right? Like they are the ones who are setting the standards for the Middle East, the GCC. You know, they're very like progressive. So I have no doubts for that. How good is your Arabic? Mushin.

1:03:37in Arabic that meant not that good and it wasn't said very well should just just agree yeah that's Iraqi yeah but you know you were like a little struggling with it so yeah fine we'll give you that I'm working on it kind of are you really I mean not really but I should I mean, I do here and there, but not enough, no. Yeah, I think that's the spoiling part of the... I know, I want to be on your... Can I say your Arab podcast? Oh, no, no. Are you keeping that a secret? Oh, sorry, I could cut that out. No, we're not going to cut it out. So, yeah, for our listeners, I've actually been contemplating having a podcast in Arabic, which...

1:04:22They do? Yeah, so... Maybe I'll come on and practice my Arabic, so it could be, like, the most disliked podcast. No one will understand a word. It can be good, but it will be a massive nightmare for the editor. People just make fun of me the whole time. No, no. You'll say a sentence and then we'll correct you and then you'll say it again and we edit the first one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that would work. Mona, you're truly wonderful in every possible way. I really don't know if our listeners will get the same radiant joy that one feels when I'm around you. But I wish you all success because I know for a fact that when people who are good at heart, beautiful souls are successful, they'll make our world better.

1:05:08And you're one of those. You're one of those. And thank you so much. I appreciate you so much. I don't want to leave. Can I stay? Yeah, of course you can stay. I'm like, is that chat over? No, it passed too fast. Yes, we will stay. But for all of you listening, you can leave us now. I just wanted to introduce you to one of the souls that I believe is wonderful, one that makes the world better. And I don't know if you have felt that the lightness of this conversation also does not make it void of a lot of wisdom. So I would actually encourage you to, especially if you're a woman, to look back at this conversation, listen again, because Mona embodies what I have been advocating for a very long time.

1:05:54So I tend to believe that, unfortunately, in our hyper-masculine world, we force women to act masculine in order to succeed. That's very true. And I think, Mona, one of the reasons we're very close is that she's fully in her feminine. And that is the reason for her success. Of course, there is always a time when you need a bit of masculine skills, managing finances or running the business with assertiveness and so on. But that doesn't mean you lose your essence. And I think your essence of joy, your essence of playfulness, your essence of empathy for your users are, believe it or not. Can I just say something before we close?

1:06:37Because that's such an important topic. and um funny enough i used to like really block my feminine energy before like three years ago before i went into therapy and it's funny because like you said that's probably a reason behind my success and before that i was always hitting like roadblocks always like running into the wrong decisions making the wrong decisions um but it was like when i found out my feminine energy was unblocked and when i worked on unblocking it like my life changed i did a lot of therapy so part of it was like watching drama shows on netflix one of them was like making a playlist of my favorite songs singing drawing um dancing you know creating also just understanding why i didn't why i blocked it before you know i used to have a really big problem receiving i used to have a problem expressing my emotions expressing myself in general but especially my emotions.

1:07:36I used to just have like a complete blockage. So when I started working on that and changing myself, I feel like I had almost like a disconnect with my gut before that. Like I had no connection. There was like zero connection. So I never used to like even have my intuition. My intuition was blocked before, but after I unblocked my chakras, like my throat chakra and all these other chakras, and also unblocked my feminine energy blockage, I feel like my life changed and like things went into flow so it was magical so everybody watching you've got to do that it's so important yeah i have to admit this is definitely one of the most valuable sentences that have ever been said on this podcast and i mean and i mean that in a very very serious way so i i have a i'm a huge believer that all of the problems we have in our world today is because of a similar imbalance of the masculine and the feminine that you experienced at an entirely global level.

1:08:33I think our whole world has blocked its feminine. I agree. And I think completely. And I think the biggest, the biggest challenge for me is that those who are archetypically feminine, if you want, are blocking themselves. So as a matter of fact, I know more gay men that are, that allow themselves to be more feminine than women, right? Yeah. And I think the reality is there is a way to go through that process. I went through it myself and I, you know, my entry point was flow. Okay. And you can do exercises to find flow. You should tell me. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. I did some of my own, but I'd love to know what you did.

1:09:14So for me, flow, believe it or not, and I don't know if I have ever shared this. So I believe that analytical thinking is masculine. Okay. Guys, you're going to have to stay a little longer. so that's okay so analytical thinking is on the masculine side that doesn't mean that only men have it because male and female is biological that's right masculine and feminine is every one of us exactly and i think that's part of it too is like i think one reason why everybody has energy is blocked is like the education around it absolutely conditioning you know 100 percent like we don't know what that even means like i remember when i because one of our fragrances is called sweet diamond and i was like this is feminine energy in a bottle and people are like what does that mean i thought you said your fragrances are gender fluid and i was like they are like everybody has feminine energy absolutely you know and this is like an ode to feminine energy because it's strong and sweet it's soft and hard at the same time so it's like you know but um people don't even know what that means and like even though i'm a very like soft-spoken person and etc like people thought you've always been feminine i'm like i look feminine i speak feminine but i used to be operating my masculine a hundred percent before therapy because i was always like the problem solver i was always the person who wanted to solve everybody's problems i hated receiving i'd only wanted to give so i was like so much imbalance one thing to give is part of the feminine but receiving is also part of the feminine like i wanted to provide for everyone you know providing is different yeah i wanted to provide i wanted to protect i wanted to problem solve i wanted i wanted to be the hero all the time you know and i never allowed anyone to be that for me.

1:10:49So yeah, I had to work on that and working on that changed my life. So let's extend this conversation a little bit, guys, because I think this is a very important one. So let's share practices, you and I, in terms of what exercises you did to unblock your feminine, what exercises I did to unblock mine. I unblocked my flow. For the first time, it was very eye-opening and I know it sounds really weird, but the first time I discovered my flow was during playing a video game. Okay. So I was, I'm, I'm a very, very serious video gamer. Most of my listeners know that. I play Halo. I play like an, I like a professional athlete.

1:11:29Wow. I'm an Olympic champion level. No, no, no. I literally am. So I, so out of every million players to have the chance to beat me, they won't every time, but all of the others won't have a chance to ever beat me. Right. And I'm very good at it because I play like a woman. I play in my feminine, honestly, right? So I was playing Halo 4, level one. I remember that vividly. Because Halo as a game is a game that actually uses a lot of very, very realistic physics. So in Halo, if you shot an enemy, the gun will fall almost as if it falls in the real world. The exact gravity with the slopes, with everything.

1:12:10And so you can plan, and planning is in the masculine side of the brain. temporal brain is in the masculine side. And so I was a very strategic player until Halo 4, level one, where you open one door around 10 minutes into the game and you're in zero gravity. So the entire physics engine goes corrupt. So you shoot an enemy and instead of the gun falling down, it flies in the air. You're in zero gravity, so you're jumping and you can't hear sounds. You can't, right? And it's a very unusual experience where you suddenly have to dance. Oh my God. Right? You suddenly have to listen to the rhythm of the game.

1:12:47Oh, I thought you meant really dance. It's like, wow, this is a cool game. I did. And it's so interesting because for the first time as a gamer, I actually had to tune into and flow with the reality of the game rather than think two steps ahead. And once I did that, I was literally a whole level of difficulty higher. I started to play Legendary and beat every game because I could tune into this. And then I started to unlock my family. That was the discovery, to unlock flow for me. I started to have New Year's intentions that were all about a full year of flow. I had, for example, I told myself I will live every year, a full month in a city or a village that I've never been to before.

1:13:33I would never book my hotel until I landed in the city that I'm going to. I had a long time, three years in a row, where I would not book my next destination. I was completely nomadic until one evening before I'm leaving. And it's, you know, all of that was sort of dismantling my masculine planning. And then more and more, as you start to realize that life has better plans for you than your masculine brain, you start to flow. You start to love it, right? And then I started to even have years of what I call flow and joy. So I would flow and at the same time enjoy the flow because it wasn't just about responding to life with a yes, but also savoring it.

1:14:20Right. It's really incredible. And that this was, I believe, the very first opening for my feminine side. And then it all rolled from there. Your turn. Amazing. I mean, I have to say, based on what you said, I think you've done more than I have, which I'm like, I need to do that because I plan. I over plan everything. thing. I'm so bad at just letting things go and flowing in that state. For me, it was like just the basics of like feeling your feelings. Like I used to suppress my feelings so much. I would never allow myself to feel anything. So just starting with like processing my emotions, speaking about things that are not, I don't want to say not important, but like before I would never even just talk about my feelings.

1:15:02I would just talk about work, problem solving. Like I would never just talk to talk. So it's just like expressing yourself. Cause I do think expression is a big part of your feminine energy too so it was like the basics i haven't got to your level yet oh no no like i was just like unlocking the door of like the basic feminine energy that you should have like asking someone to get me a drink at a party like instead of being like hey can i get you something like i'd always want to do everything for everyone yeah i would never like if a guy wanted to do anything for me i would say no like i was just never allowing anyone to like do things for me.

1:15:35I do things for everyone. So I think I'm a bit basic still, but, um, can I ask you a question when you, you're not at all, by the way, feelings is the other gateway, right? So, so, so, so when, when you say you allowed yourself to feel your feelings, isn't that what they always tell us will make us less efficient at work? I disagree because especially if you're a decision maker and we're all decision makers, right like every single person in a company and a team you're making decisions together i think you can only make better decisions if you're feeling your feelings because your feelings to me are your compass in life and they help you find out when there's an issue they tell you things and for the longest time i used to suppress my feelings i think because i'm a highly sensitive person super emotional and as a child like you know you're taught not to be too emotional like If you cry over small things, if you feel like someone's off.

1:16:30I think I'm an HSP, a highly sensitive person, and a Hayoki empath. I don't know if you've read about that. What's that? It's a type of empath where you really feel other people's feelings to an extent. If someone's had a bad day, you know they've had a bad day. You're in other people's feelings almost. So, of course, as a child, I was always told not to feel that way because people want to protect you. They think you feeling other people's feelings is a bad thing or being too sensitive is a bad thing. Now I've realized it's actually a gift. And I think everybody has it in them. Some people maybe a little bit more than others, but everybody has the ability to be sensitive.

1:17:06But a lot of people have blocked that part of themselves. And when you block that part of yourselves, you end up making bad decisions because you're not listening to your intuition. You don't trust your gut. And honestly, when I was going through a period of reflection, which was funny enough, like right before COVID, end of 2019, early 2020, I started my therapy journey and I started reflecting a lot because I went through so many bad mistakes, like career-wise, relationship-wise, personal, like just so many bad things happened. And I was like, damn, I really need to assess myself because I'm working my ass off, but I'm running into one ish after another, something's wrong here.

1:17:44And then after doing a lot of reflecting, I realized the underlying like reason behind all my big problems was a letting small things turn into big things why did i do that a i wasn't expressing myself b i wasn't listening to red flags c i wasn't i wasn't feeling my feelings i'd lock i'd block them all out and lie to myself so once i like assessed myself and did that self-discovery and then started doing the work to like changing that pattern like my whole life changed you know it's uh you know when you when you talk about i think the miracle, the miracle of feminine intelligence, which again is very badly discussed in the world because people associate intelligence with analytical linear thinking, which is useful at work, right?

1:18:29Again, as I unlocked my feminine, I became so much smarter, honestly, so much smarter simply because of what you're saying. Sensations, feelings, emotions, intuition are all on the feminine side. Absolutely, ideas, like creative ideas. Creativity, playfulness, right? All of those are inputs that you use your analytical thinking to analyze, right? And if you block those, you're sort of telling yourself, okay, I'm going to analyze two parameters out of seven and try to come up with the best answer. That's crap. By definition, you're going to come up with the best answer for the two parameters. But if you include seven or eight more, and you know of course women or the highly feminine people will know that for you it's not eight more it's around 800 more you're sensing everything you're feeling everything and and suddenly if you include that into your approach to to decision making to thinking to analysis to whatever you become so much smarter the one that actually wrote this very well was even though he didn't write it this way it was Malcolm Gladwell blink I don't know if you read that book but But Blink was basically saying in one sentence, enable your feminine intuition, enable this incredible machine.

1:19:52I have that book I haven't read. Oh, it's one of my favorites of all time. Malcolm Gladwell in general is probably one of my top three authors. He was basically saying, if you just let go of that analytical brain for a while and just use your intuition, your other brain, if you want, your gut feeling. Yeah. And you know, both energies are important. Like I know some people who just live in the feminine, do whatever they feel like doing, never have a plan, like just completely too emotional to an extent where it's also off balance. So like, I think the key is balance, you know, like have both, use both to their powers.

1:20:32They're both so powerful. Or situational. Yeah, exactly. So sometimes you need to be in your feminine, sometimes you need to be in your masculine. Exactly. You said your therapist also said to play more? Play more, yeah. Did she? Yeah. 100 % feminine, yeah. She's like, just play, have fun, go get some paint and paint on a canvas, do things that just bring you joy without any intention of anything else. And it was hard. It was hard to do that. Was it really? I swear to God, it was so hard. It's just not what I'm wired to do. No, no, don't want to do that. It's not how I'm wired. My whole life I've been a workaholic forever, so it's not my nature, but I realized doing this makes you better at everything else.

1:21:20And balance is so important, right? Life is short. Yeah. I found that play is definitely another, which is flow. I mean, play and flow are the same really. but you know play in my view is flow with joy right it's it's to be able to just take whatever is given to you and turn it into joy but also turn it into creativity and the other one that worked really well is rhythm so so i i don't know if i can prove that with any science at all but i found that i felt i don't i don't know if i can say i found that i think that the masculine temporal brain is much more along the arrow of time. So it's everything is linear.

1:22:04There is now and then there is two minutes from now and then there is four minutes from now. The feminine is very rhythmic. So everything around being feminine is cycles, you know, biological cycles, you know, emotional cycles and rhythm, four beats and then four beats and then four beats or whatever, is actually quite energizing for the feminine. So music, dance, and rhythm, I found, would release or would empower a lot of the feminine. That's interesting because one of my therapists told me after a session, because it was a pretty intense session, she's like, now go turn on some music and dance.

1:22:43And I was like, why? She's like, just do it. Just trust me, you need to do this right now. And I was like, okay. Yeah, did you? Yeah. Are you a good dancer? I mean, I like to think I am. i try who can be i'm iraqi come on okay that says it that says it's all yeah she's a very good dancer iraqis iraqis turks iranians and lebanese i think that's all my that's all my ethnicities by the way are you all of them yes i am yeah oh my god tell me how you keep yourself together I don't know. Like all the troubled countries. The drama. And my husband's Sudanese. I'm like. Nicest, nicest people ever. Like I swear to God.

1:23:30I mean, I'm so sad for what's happening in Sudan. I know, it's so sad. But they are the sweetest humans on the planet. That's incredible. Smile all the time. Yeah. The kindness. You know, when I remember vividly, you know, of course, when you grow in one country of the Middle East, you don't get mixed with the Middle East. Yeah. And when I first went to Abu Dhabi, when I moved to the UAE, and there is a big Sudanese community there. And then after Jum 'ah prayers, you go to prayers, and then you can easily tell the Sudanese, not by the way they look, but because everyone hugs everyone. And it's such a long hug with a huge smile.

1:24:10It's true. It's like, ah, Hasan. And then they hug, and they wait, and they hug. It's so beautiful. I hope things get better. Should we close here or keep going? I mean, I could talk to you forever. I can talk to you forever. Literally forever. It's been a joy. You're such a beautiful soul. You are too, my darling. You're wonderful in every possible way. So yeah, you guys can go now. I think that's it. We're done this time. Can you do chapter two? Yeah, exactly. We're going to probably come back and talk again another day. But for now, as I said, I think Mona really represents an example of how success can happen in love, in relationships, in being a daughter, in being successful at work by being feminine.

1:25:03It really makes a huge difference. So maybe listen to the subtleties in the tones of the words and the answers and see a role model that I believe is an example of how to succeed by being feminine. In any case, if you've enjoyed this as much as I did, I doubt very much because I have to tell you there is an aura around Mona when you're sitting next to her. If you've enjoyed this, please tell others about it. Please tell others to change their point of view, their judgment about a region that they may think is oppressive and unempowering. Because in all truth, I have met incredibly, incredibly impressive, incredible people over here.

1:25:45And yes, maybe share this with others. Tell them what you enjoyed. Maybe send them a link. Maybe rate it five stars. Whatever it is that you do that can help me spread my message further will be highly appreciated. It is because of you that every week I have the chance to meet someone I dearly love or someone I have never met before, but then I end up loving them to just record a wonderful conversation for you. So with absolutely no doubt, this podcast seems to be my favorite thing to do. And it's thanks to you. I love you all for listening. And I will see you next time. I love you all too.