Surviving Human Trafficking & Torture: Lurata Lyon's Journey to Positivity | Slo Mo with Mo Gawdat

0:01I am so glad you could join us. I'm your host, Mo Gaudet This podcast is nothing more than a conversation between two good friends sharing inspiring life stories and perhaps some nuggets of wisdom along the way This is your invitation to slow down with us Welcome to Slow Mo

0:34Welcome back. My guest today is simply brilliant. We met on a live podcast recording. I did not know her story. And every time we meet, I learn more about her and I'm more and more impressed, honestly. Her story, you would not imagine when you meet her, because when you meet her, you see this author and speaker and, you know, who studied nutrition and physical fitness and who's an athlete in many ways. And, you know, just like the people that we interact with, the brilliant people we interact with in the modern world. But my guest, Lorata Lyon, actually grew up in the former Yugoslavia during the period of ethnic cleansing.

1:22And her story started there. I think you can imagine how it turned. But you'd be wrong. As much as you can imagine how far it went and what she went through, you'd be missing out on some of the enormous challenges that Lorata has faced. only to be here with us today with a beautiful smile, fabulous energy, to remind us, I think, for today's podcast of two things. One is that you can overcome anything, absolutely anything. And the second, and I'm sad to bring that to your attention, is that our world is unjust and we should not allow the injustice. and I think there is a lot of similarity between Loretta's story and what's happening in our world today.

2:11I think everyone needs to hear it firsthand so that you understand what you're letting happen in our world is not acceptable. I have to say it is beyond an honor to be in her presence. I don't think you will feel what I feel because here is someone who has gone through hell truly and come back like an angel. Lorata Lyon. You don't know how much I've been waiting to have this conversation, do you? Mari, thank you so much for having me here. Actually, I have to admit and confess, which I have already, I have felt for the last few weeks since we booked this podcast, I have felt like a kid. I have felt like a kid because I think you radiate You radiate such an amazing energy.

3:04And I'm about to cry because your energy reminds me of my dad. I get that quite a lot. I don't like when I get that from lovely women. But yes, I get that quite a lot now. No, but you would really appreciate this because not in a sense as a father figure, but the groundiness that you bring to people that you too have been through so much, yet you remain so humble and you have achieved so much and you remain humble. And I feel the love from you and you don't have to say anything, the energy you radiate. From the moment I've met you, I felt like I've always known you and I'm sure everybody would agree with me that meets you.

3:53You make people feel at ease. Your energy has taken me back so many times to my my uh sort of presence around my dad and how he really tried to keep us safe and the way he stayed very grounded when everything seemed like he was going to hell and this is what I mean with your energy and you remind me of my dad because all all my life since I have left my mom and dad since we have been separated I have always longed and searched for similar energy to have in my life, whether it's a friend, whether it's a mentor, whether it's a partner, whatever it might be. And it's not often I find. So when I do, I really cherish it.

4:40And I think universe, in my case, God has sent us our way because I think we can share some great lessons today. So thanks for having me. I'm humbled. I'm really grateful. And I honestly would not, And I mean, this is probably the best I can ever expect to hear. I get people saying, ah, you opened my eyes and, you know, you taught me something. And it's lovely and wonderful. I, you know, I appreciate that. But I think the first time we met was when we were doing, when I was being interviewed on a live podcast. And I hugged you before I even knew your name. And I don't know if you believe in this.

5:21You mentioned God, but I tend to believe that there is an underlying connection between us humans, that we're all coming from the same source. And when we all come from the same source, we're all one in a way at the end of the day. I think that's true for everyone, including our enemies. But the problem is that many of us have disconnected from that link, if you want, from that reality, from the realization that we are one and the same. But when you meet someone who, sadly, I think tough times refine us, tough times polish us like gold, if you know what I mean. And when you meet someone who has gone through what you've gone through, I think you have understood life.

6:11And so you radiate. It is very difficult not to hug you. It is the truth. And it's funny because remember that when we met the first time, we said that we were going to have this conversation two weeks later. And then, you know, it's been a very tough year for me in general. I have gone through quite a bit, actually. Still, I'm going through quite a bit. And so we sort of disconnected somehow. And remember, we met so randomly, like so randomly. I was having dinner with friends and for some reason it was the location was changed. And then right before we leave the dinner, I go like, OK, just I'll go to the, you know, to the boys room for a minute.

6:53And then there you are sitting in a table on the way there like you couldn't miss each other. And that's what activated this again. If I may ask you about that protection, the feeling that your dad wanted to keep you safe. For many reasons, maybe not to take the story to my side, but it feels today that we rarely ever get someone we feel safe around. Why do you think that is? i always give people the benefit of the doubt when i meet because um you just never know i believe i always say this towards the end of my speeches as well i believe that as children we are all born innocent and if you learn to see people's purity that they are born with you will always see good in everyone and I always see good in everyone I don't exclude anyone gender color ethnicity religion I never exclude and then all the time you know things happen and people let us down not because it could be circumstances could be anything initially I used to find it really hard to deal with that because I thought I give you my all how could you break my trust like this why can't you just be transparent being in a relationship in a in a friendship at work or whatever it might be because I want everybody to really think deep now to the times when they were felt like they were let down and then I realized that okay fine that's fine because the way they people are towards us, it's not, never really is a reflection of us.

8:46If you remain to your standards of being good, respectful, you know, with consistency, for me, consistency is a very big thing, then you have no doubt to doubt yourself, you have no reason to doubt yourself. When people let you down, you see it as a reflection of them. So I have learned greatly to let go. And so So therefore, because I am so quick at just letting go, not chasing anything, I just, in fact, just trying to attract the right people into my life, I now detach myself quite quickly from something that I know is no longer going to serve me, not in a way that I'm trying to use people. But if a person decided to treat me a certain way or decided to walk away from me, I accept it as painful as it is the same as we accept death we can't change nature it is what it is so I let it go some people don't understand why I'm so quick at doing so because I always want to to create room for people at all genders from all walks of lives that are meant to be in my life to be able to stay there because I want to create that gap that space so finding a connection these days has become very superficial i go really deep the moment i see someone i feel them and i said i when i walked in today down here at the podcast the guy that set us up i said to him straight away you were not here i said the moment i saw you i felt you when i shook your hand i already knew i just know straight away i don't judge but people go through different times of healing and it takes some people longer or maybe never to get to the point.

10:35And I'm not saying they don't deserve my attention. It's just that I have to be very selective who comes into my life. But we don't have a connection because we are too focused. There is how many times one person will wake up in the morning and treat themselves with respect that they would treat a friend. Why do you think they don't do that sometimes? Or maybe never. because if you treated other people badly, nobody wants to be in your life. So what makes you think treating yourself with disrespect or without the love that you deserve every morning, the mantra, you are great, you deserve this, you are amazing, thank you.

11:17Say to yourself thank you because ultimately it's two of you, it's your body and your soul, so you've got to thank yourself. That's why people are unable to make these deep connections because they don't have a connection. They haven't connected fully with themselves. They're chasing their tail. I've worked with some people that are really successful. And you'll be surprised. People like myself would think there's somebody that's so successful. And I used to think they have it all sorted out. I mean, they are so happy, you know, surely, right? And then you get to work with them and you start understanding their level way of the way they think.

11:58they really are not a priority they're not a priority at all to themselves they don't even acknowledge themselves in order for them to feel the love for themselves they go buy the next car the next Rolex watch or the next girlfriend or whatever that is for them that brings them that excitement but deep down it's about stripping everything off and really focusing on yourself are you really happy with yourself the person that you are the way you treat yourself how how positively do you talk to yourself I think that's what's missing in this world everybody's trying to look good everybody's trying to put this and I do it myself on Instagram so you know it looks good but I know that when people meet me they're going to see exactly the same I'm good I'm good to myself I'm kind to myself so I lead by example if my Instagram look glitz and glam in terms of I'm looking good let's just say just like looking made up when you see me I might not have makeup but you will see me as made up because I constantly stay in a level of energy of positivity I don't allow anyone to disrupt my my peace this is almost the exact opposite of what life threw at you like at a very young age life takes you through a challenge that one would make you doubt everyone, never forgive anyone, and actually not feel positive at all.

13:29I know you wrote it very clearly in Unbroken, in your beautiful book, by the way, which I think everyone should read. We were joking before you guys came and we started filming that I have Loretta's book on my bed, which actually is, I mean, I only meant that it was there for me to take it with me coming to the studio. But I think the cover truly and honestly inspires me. I mean, it's the image of her two lives, if you want. I don't know if you're willing to share a little bit, as much as your heart is willing to, about that story, about how a child of innocence is subjected to the worst of humanity.

14:15Well, of course, I'd love to share. I mean, I know for a fact is going to inspire someone to to re-look at their obstacles in a different way and potentially give them some nuggets on how to go about overcoming those obstacles but most of all sometimes even my own book reminds me to be grateful for what I have the freedom that I've got everything that has been gifted to me or I worked hard for for example but I'm going to take you all on a journey I was a I'm the only child and I was brought up in former Yugoslavia by educated parents I mean when I say that I think everybody is educated because life teaches you lessons I've learned that now I don't have university diploma but I think life has taught me a lot and so my dad was a doctor and my mom professor of languages and they were huge activists in human rights so when there was injustice in former Yugoslavia about different ethnicities, they would stand by any ethnicity for human rights, to the point where they struggled to find jobs because they were sort of blackmarked as these people are not good, they are always protesting.

15:28So yeah, I grew up in a Muslim family. It wasn't strict to the point that we see it in certain cultures or countries, But by all means, Muslim, we believed in God and practicing good and doing good, not stealing, not doing certain things, which it all served me well. And then war broke up. We were living in this village. Majority, if not all, were Muslims. And one day we got marched to the sort of fold of the mountain, the entire village, more than 100 ,000s of people, children, elderly, disabled people. and we were to be massacred so the serbian army our very own army decided to do a massacre like they have done in bosnia and because war we had war amongst each other it was a civil war it wasn't even like we see it now different countries we were fighting each other so we couldn't even escape We were in a frying pan and we couldn't leave the country.

16:35And my uncle, that was a farmer, was really wealthy and decided to bribe the army to save the village. He said, look, I mean, it's a long story, but just sort of going to skip to get to what happens next. He bribed the army, said, if you save the town, I'll give you all my wealth. And surely that worked after a lot of debating and pushing around. he managed to bribe the army he had dug out of his garden with my mom actually she went to help him this loads of gold I didn't see it had gone already with the army by the time he returned to our village but my mom was telling us there was loads of gold lots of cash and he was all around his garden and because he didn't trust the the government and the banks decided to keep wealth in a very old-fashioned way.

17:27And after that, the army then decided to come and rape women and young girls. So my dad was fearing of watching me being raped. He came home one day, which quite soon after that episode, and he said, Loretta, you need to escape. I'm like, dad, as long as mom comes with me, then I'm willing to go anywhere. He's like, she's welcome. And my mom said no I'll stay with your dad he said if you cross the mountain it will lead you to Kosovo it's only you and you're not going to be seen so much whereas if we went collectively it would draw a lot of attention because we were not supposed to leave Serbia the borders were shut and you might ask why Kosovo Kosovo was already with a peacekeepers United Nations so they were keeping the peace the bombing had stopped NATO is on the ground so it was considered the next best kind of place to be as a safety as safety goes I didn't speak back to my dad I completely took that on board I said my goodbyes and I left I marched through that mountain how old were you I was 17 yeah so I was still in my teens and marched through the mountains scared of the wharfs and we had wild animals in the mountains but I managed to get to the other side within hours of trekking constantly and when I reached the other side I got onto the bus and now something to remember I speak Serbian fluently and because I was born and raised in Serbia but I also speak Albanian fluently because my neighbors and the schools were in Albanian too.

19:12So when I reached the other side, I immediately switched to speaking Albanian to the locals saying, how do I get to the main city like Pristina, which is the capital now? They showed me the way through a few different buses and I managed to get to the main city. And the idea was that my dad said, when you get to the main city, you go to the Red Cross for shelter. And I didn't know what Red Cross meant. I was so naive. I was a village girl, but very trendy. And I was doing my own little fashion thing. And so in the streets of Kosovo, it was dark and it was curfew hours. So you really shouldn't have been on the road, basically after certain hours.

19:58And I saw this bar, like noise I was hearing. I decided to walk into this bar to literally get some water and ask for help because that was the only life I heard. Everything else was like a ghost city. And took some water. I looked around. To my surprise, everybody there was with unusual uniform that I'd never seen before. They were United Nations from all sorts of different countries that were having a drink and just talking amongst each other. I took the water and I went outside. And I literally collapsed just outside of the door thinking, what do I do now? These are all strangers. They are foreigners.

20:39I don't know what to do. And I was actually feeling sorry for myself. And on those moments, this door opened and two American police officers come out. I didn't know they were Americans. I couldn't even speak a word in English. They had a translator with them, and they were sort of staring at me down on the floor, and the translator said they asked him, what are you doing on the streets? I said, I am from Serbia, and I just need to go to the Red Cross. The translator didn't look happy because I was from Serbia, and we were the enemy for the Kosovans. The American police officer said to him, tell her we can't take her to the Red Cross because it's too dangerous but we can take her in our apartment give us give her shelter tonight and see what we do next tomorrow when it's daytime because it's it's late there was a choice I had to make which frightened me because I came from my own village where the soldiers were willing to you know kill us heading into an apartment with two strangers, foreigners, not my culture, not my religion, nothing to do with what I know.

21:52I had more choice. I agreed. I got on this big Jeep and they drove off with me with the translator and we got to their apartment after a short drive. And they set me up in their kitchen where it was like a sofa. And it was never turning into a bed, but just a sofa where I used as a bed. And they said, you are safe here. The next day came, they needed to go to work. And they said, you need to wait here for us. This is all again done through the translator. Whilst I was waiting for them, I decided to clean, cook, whatever I found in the fridge for them. To thank them that they gave me shelter. For me, I remember it so clearly.

22:40and almost like I wish I could stop time or I could go back in time and just relive that moment of the respect they showed me, the love they showed me, the care they showed me. They were a clear proof that they could be outsiders, nothing to do. You don't have to relate to them. But when people are good, people are good. And they don't have to be from something that you actually resonate with. we became an unusual we had an unusual friendship unlike the most unlikely friendship was formed and everywhere they went they introduced me to the whole entire UN troops their friends and any parties any gatherings they had to keep me with them and so everyone was there to protect me everyone got involved to protect this one girl from Serbia because Red Cross was compromised by the locals because what I'm about to tell you next involved people that were connected to these gangs for human trafficking so I from Serbia had I have gone into Red Cross because I've spoken to Peter and Brian since my two police officers they said if we had sent you then you would have gone in split second we it's just it was unsafe for you here from Serbia and this one day I was quite bored I'd finished all the chores around the flat and I thought this was on the ground floor I thought to myself if I just get a couple of pennies here and I walk outside of this door on the stand just over there a few meters away and got a magazine to read because I'm bored then I'll be okay right anybody would think that so I made a mistake I stand here and I I know that was my own mistake but I was 17 I was naive and I didn't think it was that dangerous on my moment getting this magazine I had this big van people carry a kind of van black it just pulled in front of me and I wanted to tell them off to say like watch out what are you doing like on the pavement and I was all about doing the right thing and being proper and I didn't have time to say or think really that much it was this thing that was pulled over my head and they grabbed me over my armpits and shoved me in this van and you know Mo sometimes you have those dreams I'm sure people have had these when they jitter and they want to wake up from because it's so bad you know it's a dream and you just want to wake yourself up I wanted to do that for myself because I really genuinely thought it was the worst dream I am having but unfortunately it was happening and they took me to this abandoned place where I saw after where I was and I remember the building but when they put me in front of this guy which was the boss and I was on my knees I was being held the boss goes oh she's the one like I had become so famous I didn't even realize that I was so wanted by these people.

25:54He said, I'll flip her over, rape her, I want to watch. Now, a Muslim girl that's never had a boyfriend, never wanted to have a boyfriend, I was so focused on studying, I wanted to be a doctor, just like my dad. On her back, pinned down, adrenaline kicks in. I'm scared. I'm so scared. I'm scared because I wasn't scared of, of, I don't know how to explain, it wasn't scared of the man, I was scared of the feeling El Hai might feel, or of something so precious, and to be exposed to something like that. And I screamed, I said, guys, I'm a virgin. And I screamed it at the top of my lungs. I don't know why I said that, but I think I was thinking that, so I said it.

26:42And the boss stopped the action. He said, stop, guys, we have stumbled across a huge cargo. so to them girls young girls young people were a cargo there were human trafficking gangs they're still alive and still at large that literally focused on selling the girls to the highest bidder and for prostitution and then they took the organs so nobody they ever took ever made it alive nobody they no one that they've ever taken I should rephrase this had ever made it alive. I'm apparently the only survivor to have ever made it out of these guys. And it's a long story, but I'm going to skip because so people understand the level of intensity that it just gets worse and worse.

27:31This guy boss decides to groom me. The grooming process was the most vile experience I have ever experienced. If they had shot me dead, I would have maybe made peace with it you know you just have no choice to have to watch sexual acts being done in front of you with his lover um gross things and you are made to watch so you are crying your eyes out you don't want to watch you feel sick you're gonna you're gonna be sick you are sick and you've got these guns around you and like watch learn and you're there like taking this speedy lesson on potentially what I should be doing to the client that's going to buy me.

28:13It was sick. What got really twisted was, and this gets me every time, because to this day, I feel a huge obligation and responsibility.

28:31They had girls come in, and they were being dragged in. They weren't even conscious. and the gang that took me they would rape her and abuse her I say a couple of them abuse them and I was made to watch a girl that's unconscious being raped and I just couldn't do anything about it and I they just kept saying watch learn watch learn that stayed in my head because I thought But is it, would this have happened anyway? Would it have happened anyway? Or is it because of me? Maybe I shouldn't have been a virgin. Maybe these girls would have never had to go through that to learn something that I needed, to endure something that I needed to learn.

29:25So I then can perform or I can prepare myself what's coming. That messed up with my head for a long time. Because the guilt, and I had nightmares, and I still do. It's a guilt that I would take to grave.

29:50I think the hardest thing sometimes is to forgive yourself for something. It was never your fault. And it's easy to forgive others, I believe. Because I know for a fact I have forgiven everyone that's ever wronged me, and including these people because it was not for me to hold on to that kind of hate and I had to take away their power over me but I still am searching I'm trying to do good in the world so I can find some forgiveness for myself because I feel responsible even though I know it wasn't my fault but I just do and I was very lucky on the day that they were supposed to ship me to the highest bidder they had to cross the border to go to Albania that day but that border was shut by the United Nations and I count my blessings from from that moment onwards because it changed it changed one it changed because it's like speaking of chain of reaction it's like you just something happens and then you do something and you always trigger for things to happen so we got turned around and on the way to the house where they were keeping me this apartment I decided to cause a scene every time we stopped whether it was a restaurant a coffee shop whatever wherever they stopped I would cause a scene with the staff as I would go to toilet I would then go towards the staff and the guard would then shove me around hit me so the staff realized this girl it's really not here willingly she's clearly something's not right whether the the staff decided to to make a few calls and raise a few alarms I don't know but by the time we reached this apartment it was midnight and I remember it clearly because the boss got a call and we were standing on this hallway where the boss was taking this call on his little mobile phone nokia you know those really i'm talking about 25 years more than 25 years ago and above him it was a clock like a round clock and i saw the clock and it was midnight and that stayed with me so significant the boss goes yes talking to someone is like right boys and he gets so angry get everything out he said you rape her kill her discard her body do what we do with the bodies he said we need to get out of here because she is more trouble than she's worth it now I've gone from scared anyway from him to literally trembling because death as soon as you understand you are dying no matter what you are going through being like terminally ill or whatever it might be I know for a fact because I've seen death a few times approach me.

32:45You are never ready to die, no matter how hard, how painful the experience is. Life is precious. That thing, life that we hold here, is really precious. Even the poorest find it precious to let go of this lifetime. And I thought, oh, gosh, I'm dying. And being a Muslim, I thought the least I can do is pray. I said to the guy I started crying I said please don't do it he had the guns I was like almost like holding his arms I'm like please don't do this I said and if you're going to do it do it gently we're both Muslim please can I pray please allow me to pray I was begging for this prayer I don't think I've ever prayed again like I prayed that night it was a prayer from the deepest purest kind of my soul asking for forgiveness to God because I wasn't ready to die, but I knew I was about to meet God.

33:44And I was really scared. I didn't know what it might feel like. He said, fine, you pray. He said, I'll use the toilet and then you know what's happening. Next to the telly, there was a TV in the living room and a glass door on the left-hand side here. There was a little sort of corner there that I thought, if I just go there, it's possibly clean enough for me to pray. I went on to stage there I didn't even pray properly like we do I just I just immediately went on to my knees head on on on the floor and the thoughts through my head is if only I could have made it out to tell my mom and dad that I'm about to die so they know I'm dying I know it doesn't make sense when I say it it's twisted it's like well how could you make it out and then you're dying anyway but how are you coming back to this it didn't make sense but this is my thought process if only I could just send a message to them that I'm about to die so they don't wonder for the rest of their lives where I've gone or if I abandon them and I said God I'm so sorry I'm just I'm very sorry what's happening and on those moments Mo I heard speaking of magic and the power of God or the prayer or meditation for for I don't care what you believe in but when you focus when you really fully focus and you delete all this noise around you and you become that priority like I'm saying people don't take priority for themselves be that priority for yourself love yourself I was loving myself on said that I was forgive I was forgiving myself in a sense that I can't tell my parents but God please forgive me because I let everybody down and I was loving myself and loving in a sense that thank you for all that you've given me so far I was only 17 I was making peace with it I heard this cling on the on the table and I turned around and I thought let me see what is this cling and it was keys on the table and the gun I said you know what in my head what do I do we're not supposed to break the prayer what do I do and and God spoke to me God has never revealed to me like that night in fact most recently something he proved to me and I I'm not even going to go there but he really does answer when you truly understand and you're very specific of what you want.

36:21I said, what do I do? And I had this kind of interpretation in my head saying, take the keys, not the gun, just take the keys. I said, I'm so sorry. It's like I'm breaking the prey. I'm like, I'm so sorry. Can you imagine all this thought is going through my head? I took the keys and I thought, okay, if I just try to open this door, then maybe I'll just make it out. So I opened the first door. it was two doors the wooden door from the inside and the metal door from the outside like a rails like in prisons when I started to open the second door because it opens the opposite direction what I know now I've learned my lesson on the spot I was like fiddling with it and then all of a sudden it opened and I sort of went flying forward because the door opened towards the front I just like legged it down the stairs from the fourth floor I was I was missing all the steps I think God gave me wings I was just going like this and as I reached the front door he was right behind me I could feel his breath I could hear everything about him it was there he punched me so hard that I went flying onto the main road and luckily he wasn't busy because it was after midnight and quiet but that allowed me that that big punch allowed me to to sort of fall far away from him but also sort of twist myself in a position where I could see there is life, other people around.

37:50And to my very big luck, it was a police officer, Italian, had just finished his shift. He was parking his Jeep and I just screamed. I didn't know he was a police officer, but I screamed. He ran towards me to see what was happening. And my guy that was about to kill me, he was shooting at the police officer. and the police officer obviously shooting at him. I've got these two guys shooting at each other and I'm just crawling towards the police officer. As soon as I reached him within a meter, he grabbed me and put me behind his car, immediately opened his door to protect us and he reached in to get the walkie-talkie.

38:29He called units that were still at work and within seconds we were surrounded. I was so in distress and upset and hysterical. they decided to take me to the police station and they said you've got to give us the interview because we need to know names and we need to know who these people are I remembered everything all the names they weren't hiding anything from me at the end of my interview I was exhausted of telling the story just you know every time he gets me because it was traumatizing the guy said this police officer Albanian from Kosovo. He said, can I hug you? It was my dad's age. I said, don't touch me.

39:11He started crying. And I remember his face. He said, I just want to thank you for surviving to tell us, to give us these names, because we have been trying to bring them down. we don't have witnesses so you need to appear in court and potentially hague I'm thinking I'm out of here I can't wait to just you reunite with Peter and Brian and go to war where my parents are and die by the bullets and die by the soldiers there but my own people I got reunited with Brian and Peter and they were really devastated it was three o 'clock in the morning when by the time we reached and I've done the interview the next day obviously they looked after me that three hours of that evening and the next day we said goodbye Brian and Peter were devastated I got on the bus headed back crossed the borders again illegally into Serbia only to find my mum and dad hiding in the basement and they immediately said you shouldn't have come back my mum was like you shouldn't have come back I'm like mum I have so much to tell you.

40:22I was so happy to see them. All I wanted to do is hug them. She was like, no, you go away. You can't be here. I'm like, mom, what's the problem? The problem was that I had crossed borders and nobody was supposed to leave. And so we were being watched and the soldiers had already seen me cross borders coming in. And so within minutes of me getting into my parents' garden. We've got these, this big truck of soldiers comes in and they drag me into the van. And my dad is crying with my mom in the garden. I said, listen, please. I said, I'll just explain to them what had happened. At least my, for me was this sense of relief that I didn't have that obligation.

41:06Now they are taking me, my parents can see this, the obligation of me sending a message to them to say, Hey, this is what's happening to me. It was non-existent because they can see what's happening and I genuinely thought it was going to be a very straightforward interrogation why did you cross borders that kind of stuff what are you doing you know doing this what's your you know what's your deal but yet all this experience in Kosovo I realized I was still naive I was still being molded by the craziness that was happening. We reached this, the soldiers with me reached this building in the mountains.

41:49It was an abandoned building and there was someone a bit more higher than them waiting for me to interrogate me. And I sat at the table like this, like I am with you today, a really bright light and he's standing up asking me questions and I'm telling him everything that's happened. Soldiers are standing around me. They're beating me up. Tell the truth. I said, I'm telling the truth. We don't believe you. You're a spy. What did you do in Kosovo? What is going on? You're crossing borders. They beat me up so badly. I was unrecognizable. They broke my nose. They dislocated my jaw from just being punched.