Unlocking Gut Health: Expert Tips on Diet, Gut-Brain Connection, and Debunking Food Myths!

26:11But there's all of these gluten-free types of grains like your quinoa and your buckwheat. And they have, again, unique types of phytochemicals in it that you can't necessarily get from your green leafy veg or your other types of nuts and seeds. So again, it is worth trying to diversify that. If we look at the observation studies, I think a lot of the associations of these more carby foods with poor outcomes is essentially because a lot of these calvy foods like bread are so ultra processed a lot of those phytochemicals are actually being kind of stamped out of it as well as things like added you know refined sugars and emulsifiers and stabilizers and a whole lot of other things have been added to it so actually it no longer has you know that amazing profile of chemicals phytochemicals that feed those microbes that's so interesting yeah so i guess if we look at people who live the longest like people who live in the blue zones for example they do eat grains but they have the whole grains or things like sourdough so slowly fermented which actually not only reduces a bit of that gluten but can increase the availability of certain types of nutrients like zinc to be absorbed in our body okay so can i ask you about quantities then yeah as i said i mean i look at hannah's plate and it's it appears to be quite a large meal right not like my meals but a large meal okay but it is actually when you really analyze it's all very very healthy though you mentioned olive oil olive oil is staple for hannah like she's always having olive oil on whatever it is that she's eating the trick however is it actually isn't when you really look at it are you for limiting calories or are you for increasing calories what is eat more live well what is the more bit the more diversity and more fiber yeah absolutely not more not more calories or more portions of the plants so i think there's this whole very interesting debate around like calorie counting right and i think there's some really good studies out there that have shown you don't need to calorie fixate in order to have a healthy body weight if weight management is your goal and in fact the whole calorie kind of debate it's kind of not that accurate in terms of there's a number of things like for example almonds actually provide our body with 20 less calories than what the packet says because the way that we work out calories in the lab is like burn the food down extract every last bit of energy whereas the way our digestive that nine meter track works actually it doesn't extract it all out yeah so people who do this fixation on calorie counting don't necessarily take into account the inaccuracies of how our digestive system works then there's other things like the thermogenic effect of food which essentially is like the calories we burn through digestive process and therefore so it's not necessarily an equal playing field because what's on the back of the pack actually is not your net gain because actually you might need to burn calories when you're eating some of these these foods just the whole food you need to burn more calories than the ultra processed ones because they're kind of pre-digested and then there's like the satiety effect right so yes a banana and a kit kat might contain the same similar calories but the banana is going to keep you fuller for longer because it's got the fiber the pre-biotics which feed the gut bacteria they then help regulate out your appetite hormones as well as doing a whole other range of things you know potassium for the heart all this other sort of stuff so i think people who tend to fixate just on calories probably miss the big picture and aren't really getting the full benefit of food and particularly the gut health effects of that.

29:49So you don't count calories at all? I don't count calories. So again, I'll share with you because I'm really excited about what's been happening. So I started to eat a little more like Hannah because in all honesty, it's the first time in my life I have a wonderful person in my life who's not looking at my meal and saying, oh, how many grains of quinoa are in there? Like she's just setting an example. And I feel so much less hungry and so much less cravings because of that mix of foods. Right. It's quite interesting. My typical diet in the past. Don't judge me. I'm working on it. I always had to have a cookie with my coffee in the morning for my mental health.

30:27And that just took me down the drain from there. Like the entire day was unhealthy. OK. And now because we intermittent fast a little. Do you recommend that, by the way? So I think it's very individualized. Some people do really well on it. Some people don't. I would say that if you're going on these very extended fasts of like, you know, more than 20 hours. Oh, that's true. Yeah, you need to be careful of what happens to your microbiome because they starve as well, right? Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, and some of that, although it is animal studies, but they've shown that when their microbes are hangry, they start to kind of eat away at our mucus lining in our gut.

31:01And that could potentially predispose us to more inflammation. Yeah. So what would your recommendation be for a maximum intermittent fasting? So I would say, you know, for the average person, yes, it's good to have at least 12 to 13 hours overnight without eating, right? Yeah. So I'm definitely pro, you know, having a break for your gut. And then in terms of, you know, what's the maximum, it's individualized. I'd say maybe what I see in clinic is 16 hours. People do tend to do a cake and can still get in their 30 to 40 grams of fiber a day. Because that's the other thing, right? If you're going on long periods, you need to eat more fiber in that short window.

31:36And if you've got a sensitive gut and load it with fiber, you're more likely to get digestive upset like bloating and altered poops and stuff like that. So it is really individualized in terms of how people go about intermittent fasting. Did you say 30 grams of fiber? What kind of food would contain that? Yeah, that's a really good question. So most of us in the UK get less than 20 grams of fiber. Government guidelines say 30 grams of fiber. But there's an amazing study, and I'll come back because I know you did ask me a specific question, but actually gave people 50 grams of fiber through whole food.

32:08And that was a landmark study that changed my practice as a clinician because for the first time in a robust study showed that via diet, we could have clinical meaningful benefits on people's mental health, people who were diagnosed with severe depression. so in terms of I guess what the 30 grams of fiber looks like you know it's probably two pieces or two serves of fruit three serves of some sort of grain where one grain serve is like a quarter of a cup of cooked quinoa or something like that about three or four serves of your veg and again half a cup cooked or a full cup of salad and one to three serves of legumes nuts or seeds So it is something actually that's really attainable.

32:53But what I often find a lot of people who are starting to think more about feeding their gut is, like you said, they feel fuller because they're having more of this fiber, which naturally makes them feel full. So initially people are like, oh, geez, I feel like I'm eating a lot more food. And when they start to switch from, you know, less of the ultra processed and more of these whole foods. but then it just starts to get to a pattern where actually it's quite easy to get to your 50 grams without even having to count and to think which is what that clinical trial showed so if there's any nerds out there do check out the smiles trial it was that robust first time we've ever seen do you want me to describe the study to you yeah how much are you into the science so what they did is randomized people had moderate severe depression half of them got this gut boosting diet mediterranean in diet 50 grams of fiber a day through that the other half got a befriending type of counseling and they followed both groups for 12 weeks and that one group you know the diet group the other group the befriending counseling and then after those 12 weeks i think they had like seven appointments in each group so it was very controlled and they wanted to make sure the befriending group was to make sure that any benefit in the diet group wasn't because they were actually just seeing a clinical dietitian but actually because of the food so it was nicely controlled they came back reassess their mental health in the diet group 32 percent of them had a significant improvement in their depression scores which would have classified them as no longer clinically depressed um verse eight percent in the control group and i always find it so important to make the disclosure everyone stayed on the antidepressant medication so if anyone's listening to this going oh my god i'm going to drop that and just focus on my diet definitely don't do that but i hope you find that as an empowering way as an adjunct and addition actually if you start focusing on your diet you may be able to you know further boost your mental health if you are struggling with depression and certainly in my own clinic with support of you know the prescribing psychiatrist people have actually who've wanted to come off the antidepressants by focusing just on their diet but obviously depression is very heterogeneous there's many different causes but you know this is a really strong study which i think gave me that confidence as a clinician to go you know what actually for a lot of people we can really help their mental health via nourishing their body with those different fibers to feed their gut microbiome.

35:04Yeah, I mean, you don't have to go all the way to the extreme of depression, but that basically means to everyone, just by analogy, that everyone else can be a little happier if they ate a little healthier, right? And it's actually very true. In Unstressable, my last book, we sort of measure the idea of physical stress and how the physical stress to mental stress cycle works, right? So if you're physically stressed, your joints are hurting, your back is hurting, you're tense all the time and so on and so forth yeah by definition you're going to feel all of the other different types of stress you're going your thoughts are not going to be as happy your emotions are not going to be as joyful and you don't need a lot of research to understand that and i think a lot of the physical stress comes from inflammation which comes from diet basically so it's a no-brainer when you really think about it i absolutely love that and i guess there's even more kind of convincing evidence out there now that it's never too late to start so like you said you've only kind of more recently made these changes and i think people should be really empowered by this study that came out of bergen university and what they showed is you could add over a decade of healthy years to your life by adding in these different types of plants into your diet absolutely feel that and even you know i think in the 60s if they looked at those who in the 60s i think they added like an extra nine years in males so not as many years but actually if you start to make this changes when you're 60, you're still going to get so many extra healthy years.

36:29So you know, it's never too late to start essentially. Yeah. Your recommendation on just, I'm going to repeat it because I think it's very eyeopening for me specifically, is that more intermittent fasting is not good. It's that idea between 13 and 16. Typical high achievers like me is like, okay, I can go for 36 hours. Why not? Yeah. So this is very, very eyeopening. How about food intolerances? Yeah, really, really interesting one because it feels certainly like in clinic, I'm seeing more or more people with food intolerances, right? Definitely. And I guess it's important to distinguish an allergy versus food intolerance.

37:02So an allergy involves the immune system. So like a peanut allergy, for example, you can go into endorphilactic shock and all that sort of stuff. So, you know, that is very serious and you need to avoid it. Although they're starting to look at some kind of challenges, but that's all in the medical setting, right? Whereas a food intolerance doesn't necessarily involve the immune system, but it's usually your body's not tolerating something because you're lacking something within your body. So one of the most common types of intolerances is lactose intolerance. So lactose is milk sugar. You find it in your milk, a lot of your soft cheeses, your ice cream and stuff like that.

37:35And actually when we eat lactose, we have typically, when we're younger anyway, we've got this enzyme called lactase and that breaks down that lactose and then we absorb it, gets into our body and then feeds other parts of our body. But for a lot of people and different kind of communities that have higher rates depending on their genetics, actually as they get older, they don't produce as much of that lactase enzyme. And therefore, they can't digest it. It gets malabsorbed, gets into the large intestine, the bacteria ferment it, and do quite a lot of explosive stuff with it, loads of gas, altered poops, and things like that.

38:06So in terms of food intolerance, it really depends what type. I would say there's probably this merging group where it's not necessarily a true intolerance to a lot of prebiotic foods. So like garlic and onion and legumes like chickpeas and butter beans. Yeah. So that because the thing that people typically are reacting to is a type of fiber. It's a type of prebiotic which actually feeds your gut bacteria. No human body can produce that enzyme. So it's not like you're lacking that enzyme. It's the fact that your microbes are lacking that enzyme or aren't efficiently digesting that. So that means you actually need to look to train your microbiome.

38:46So you've never really cut it out long term, but actually you might want to, you know, if it's causing you a lot of grief in terms of bloating and all to poops, you would reduce it for around two weeks. And then you systematically start to, systematically, sorry, start to reintroduce it and train your gut literally like if it's legumes like chickpeas, it's literally a tablespoon per day for the first week, then two tablespoons. And this is something, you know, I talk about my bloating masterclass because it's so common. And all I see is people saying they've got intolerance and then cutting it out.

39:16And the thing is, whenever you go eat out or eat at a friend's place, you're probably going to have some of this and you'll have a worse reaction because your body can't deal with it because it's so foreign to it. So you need to teach your microbiome to actually love it because actually it's really good for it. But most of us or most people having these issues, their microbiome is just ultra sensitive and probably has had too much stress or there's something else going on. And so it hasn't really ever been taught to effectively work with these foods that should really help the microbiome. So I have that for garlic for sure.

39:51Yeah, right. Garlic is everywhere. Yeah. My mother believed in garlic as medicine. Right. So when I was very young and my digestive system is not going very well, she'd go like, yeah, just swallow a clove of garlic. You'll be fine. And I would like literally lie on the floor dying. At the time, again, you wouldn't really think of intolerances. We didn't know of all of those things. And then when I did the test and I realized that garlic was one of the issues and I completely cut it out of my diet. But of course it's everywhere. So every now and then I get... Mo, I would just say be very, very careful of these food intolerance tests.

40:26So there's all these different ones online which sound legitimate. So things like these IgG tests where you send away some blood, it comes back with all these like red, green, yellow kind of foods. Very inaccurate. Completely inaccurate. I did three and the three didn't match. Yeah. So the World Immunology kind of association group have all said this is. So what's the right way to figure it out? Yeah. It's frustrating because unlike allergies where there is, well, there's two different types of allergies. So some allergies, yes, you can get this blood test, IgE mediated types of allergies and therefore it's easier.

40:58Other ones like certain types of milk allergies, then actually it's a little bit trickier. So they need, you need to cut it out of your diet and then you would start to dose it up and see if you get the symptoms. And actually that's the same with food intolerances, except for lactose intolerance, where you can do a breath test. If you have loads and loads of lactose, what happens? You malabsorb bacteria, feast on it. They produce the gas that gets into your blood. You breathe it out. So that's the mechanism of how the lactose breath test works. But actually it's really easy if you just want to have like, you know, a large glass of milk.

41:29I usually go low-fat milk so you know it's the lactose and not the fat component. and then within two hours if you don't get any kind of explosive gut symptoms where you're like churning gut all that sort of stuff then you probably don't have lactose intolerance but that's the exception right all the others are really tricky but there is this process that we do in clinical practice which is like the gold standard i call it the three-hour process so you would record everything you're eating and then if you see an association with something you would then restrict it for two to four weeks depending on what particular food component that is and then And the third step, and then if you notice you get a benefit, the third step is so, so important, and that is a reintroduction to make sure it's not just a chance finding because the placebo, the Nacebo effect, so the thoughts up here, can absolutely trigger gut symptoms.

42:16And we've seen this in like blinded clinical trials where if someone thinks they've got gluten intolerance and then they're told that they're going to eat gluten, this causes extreme gut symptoms. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, they've done it where they didn't have any gluten. Nothing could have triggered them except for this because they were aware. Yeah, it's so interesting. And, yeah, bloating, explosive, you know, stools and all that sort of stuff. So the Nacebo effect, which is the opposite of the placebo effect when you think someone's good for you, is real. So we always need to be really conscious of that when we are checking for intolerances.

42:49And I like to get people to blind themselves, get their family members involved, you know, particularly with the lactose. if they think they could be at risk of that nasibol fact, choose a lactose-free milk and a lactose-containing milk, but get their family to tell them which one they had one week and which one they had the next week. Ah. Okay, so I love everything that you say. I really think that, and I'm a huge advocate, honestly. So the comment that you said about getting nine years younger, I honestly and truly feel that. I honestly do. And the more I invest in my food and my diet, the more I feel it, right?

43:23but there is a bit of beef between us you and i on beef by the way you're not you're not for vegan or absolutely not no no and i think that's one of the things that's been probably miscommunicated on social media where they said for a healthy gut you have to cut cut cut cut cut and actually it's not that way at all it's about add add add and if you enjoy animal products then yeah having a bit of that on the side is absolutely fine you can have incredible gut health and those sorts of things so yeah definitely not in fact omega-3 and oily fish we know is proactively good for the gut and anti-inflammatory mental health and all that sort of stuff so if people are going vegan for whatever reason you know animal cruelty religion all those sorts of things i totally understand but do take an omega-3 supplement for that reason that flipped my life upside down yeah i mean so i actually again because i try to measure everything in my life when i added omega-3 supplements that completely changed everything i literally could visibly see that i was doing better i'm not very big on animal protein in general so it seems clear to me that now i have a lot i don't know if they contain omega-3 or not but i really try to be religious about avocados and olive oil do those no they don't yeah so where is omega-3 found in so there's different types of omega-3 but the ones where they've got the most scientific evidence essentially is pretty much exclusive to fish, the fatty fish.

44:43So the salmon, the herring, the sardines, those sorts of ones, yeah, really do contain that omega-3. The kind of the exception to that is algae. And that's why if you are vegan and you don't want to have the omega-3 from fish, then algae oil supplements actually do have the right type of omega-3. We'll hear that there's some omega-3 in things like walnuts and chia seeds, but it's a slightly different type of omega-3 which doesn't have a potent impact on our microbiome or mental health so it is important that if you are supplementing you do the epn dha types of omega-3 i actually read one time when i was researching this that the man's body specifically depends a lot on omega-3 to produce all of the other hormones all of the hormones that the masculine hormones basically need a bit of omega-3 in your body to be able to i mean there's so many things that are reliant so it's not just things like omega-3 but your vitamin d there's so many things yeah And a tiny bit of zinc, they say.

45:36And a lot of your B vitamins and things like that. And Bs, yeah. So what's your position on supplement? Yeah, really good question. So if we look at the literature, right, it always says food first as a source of the nutrients is going to have a better impact on your nutrient level, whether it's your omega-3, whether it's your B vitamins, magnesium, etc. But I do appreciate that for various reasons, people can't get in all their nutrients. in which case then yeah you might need to look at supplementation and we certainly know you know in the uk we should all take that vitamin d supplement um you know throughout winter and it's linked with things like you know leaky gut if you're not getting enough vitamin d um then you can get leaky gut and you know you just can't seem to get enough vitamin d from food um there are some sources but they're just not strong enough so i think that's a really important one and then obviously there's probiotics right so probiotics is those live microbes.

46:31And that whole world, I think, has been very confused and misled people, where actually probiotics shouldn't be completely dismissed, but actually there's no evidence that we should all take a probiotic. It's very nuanced, right? So if people come to see me and say, I just want to improve my gut health, then there is no scientific evidence out there that suggests taking a probiotic on the market is going to improve your overall gut health. It just won't. To improve your overall gut health, the science says you need that plant diversity, those 30 different plants a week. So fertilizing them is the key way to do that, playing in some dirt, eating the fermented food.

47:07That's how we do it, right? But there is actually some really strong scientific evidence for specific areas, so specific indications. So we actually need to start thinking about probiotics kind of like, you know, vitamin supplements or even like medications. So if you have iron deficiency, you're not going to go and take vitamin D. You're going to take iron because that's what you need to put into your body. The same goes with the probiotics. You need to make sure you're taking the right type of probiotics. Exactly the right strand, yeah. There's thousands of strains, right, that has shown to have that specific benefit.

47:39Yeah. So there's these five questions I get people to ask themselves whether they should go ahead with a probiotic. One is, is there a human clinical trial showing that a probiotic will help with your symptoms, whether your symptoms is cold and flu or whether it's constipation. So that's the first question. If there is, then what's the actual name of the bacteria? What's the strain? Is it lactobacillus raminis GG, for example? You need to have that right formula. The second one is what, a third one is what dose to take it at. The fourth one is how long you need to take it before you see a benefit.

48:10And the fifth one is how you take it, faster to date or with food. So we need to actually be very prescriptive to have the health benefits of that. Amazing. And yeah, I mean, in terms of what I would recommend in clinics, so there's usually these four areas I say there is convincing evidence, I would say get a probiotic. Antibiotic-associated diarrhea is one. So if you have to take antibiotics for whatever reason, then good evidence to take a specific probiotic throughout your antibiotic period. Women's health, so thrush and BV. Colic in babies is actually good scientific evidence. And cold and flu.

48:39So it's kind of those four where I would say cold and flu. Cold and flu, yeah. Cold and flu, yeah. Yeah. So what happened to natural probiotic like kefir and fermented foods and stuff like that? I love that question. So they are a great source to add to our diet, but they're not probiotics by definition. Now, the reason is if I make kefir at my house and you make kefir at your house, the bacteria in it and the yeast in it are very different. And the types are wild, right? So they're good to get into you, but we don't have the scientific clinical trials to show that that particular strain is going to help with that indication which is why we need to when we talk about probiotic supplements we're talking about that therapeutic space so for general health yes get those fermented foods in for those extra live microbes but if we're talking about the therapeutic area of like you've got a condition we need to treat that or prevent it through a probiotic that's when we need to be the indication specific so the right strain at the right time for the right reasons etc so as i said i love everything that you say what's what's wrong with you and coffee like why why why did you tell me that no so coffee is completely fine to have right yeah um so you know studies have shown that having up to three cups of coffee a day can actually have some health benefits in fact you know they do contain some of those polyphenols right however the other component to coffee is the caffeine and we know a lot of people are caffeine sensitive so anyone that I see in clinic who's got gut issues, whether it's, you know, bloating or altered poops or cramps, actually, or even anxiety, we know that caffeine can trigger that and make it worse because we know that caffeine increases your cortisol, your stress hormone.

50:17So you just need to be a little bit careful. And then another hot tip about your morning coffee, there's actually some good signs of it. If you're trying to ration it like I do, just having my one coffee a day, then actually you should try to delay it about an hour after you wake up because that's going to give you your best kind of caffeine alert buzz because it takes about that hour for this kind of sleepy chemical to build up for the coffee then to have its most effective kind of outcome on your body so delay it an hour if you can have your decaf as soon as you get up if you that's your habit you just saved our relationship you just and i was like i don't like what she's saying i really don't because i wake up for my coffee yeah not because of the caffeine actually i don't i don't want the caffeine at all the problem is if you really love your coffee decaf is not you can't you you can't brew the perfect shot if it was decaf but i think i'm going to sort of like tell myself otherwise because of what you said today yeah give it a try for four weeks and see how you feel i think that's the best thing people can do is experiment for themselves you know about these kind of new habits because what i typically find is that is enough motivation people feel better after the four weeks so they keep it up and we do we do need that ongoing motivation because if you're trying something and actually you don't really feel better and it's kind of changing a habit and you don't really want to then you're not going to keep it up and we see people who live the longest the happiest have the best gut health it's about longevity you know you need to feed these guys for life so if it's just going to be a quick fad you're not going to really have that benefit on longevity etc last question by the way this was fascinating i'm so so blown away by the way you position those things with so much clarity right and really really they come together and make sense how do you teach your kids to eat healthy i love this one so i live by this um and i had a nephew before i had my own kid so i trialed it out on him and it's i did all these different like analogies and teaching them that they've got a little pet inside their gut right so they love pets and you know even if you don't like that broccoli your little tummy pet does interesting so you need to be a good pet owner and eat that and then you can have you know the other foods that you like but you need to feed and be a good pet owner and I do it with Cohen and I've done it with my kids and it really does get them to start to broaden up their diet right and one of the things that we see because a lot of people say look you know my family just doesn't like the taste of plants so if they're too young to kind of get down that level of you know they're like I don't have a pet in my tummy, like that's, you know, I'm not a child anymore.

52:52Then actually starting to sneak plants in to their diet, whether it's, you know, in a bolognese, adding some lentils and blending it up or some mushrooms or having smoothies and adding like, you know, walnuts and frozen cauliflower and actually you can't taste it, just makes it thicker in like fruit smoothies. Sneaking it in is really smart because what happens is our taste profile, our taste buds actually regenerate every 10 or so days. Plus we've actually got millions of bacteria in our mouth and the studies show that after about four weeks of having more plants our taste seems to be more plant loving we start to enjoy it more that is so you actually teach your microbes to and your taste buds to enjoy it by sneaking it in and also i would say probably sneaking out the other foods that they're what i normally think about is that if my mom didn't position a chocolate but rather an apple as a good food i would have grown up to love apples more does that make sense right oh Oh, absolutely.

53:48And what you're saying is sneak it into their diet and then they'll sort of like it more and then you can make it visible afterwards. The flavor taste. It really depends on where they're at. So, you know, if it's a stubborn husband like I had, then you need to do the sneaking process. If it's young kids, then I'm all about showing them and saying it's feeding their microbes and not kind of hiding it. But if they're too far gone in terms of that's healthy, I'm not going to eat it. then you sneak it in to make it, you know, adjust the taste buds first. Did we capture that confession on camera? Oh, he knows all too well.

54:23Does he? Did you do that to him? I did. And he's an NHS GP. You think he'd know better. But terrible diet. So having to kind of train his taste buds by, you know, sneaking in, like I said, the lentils into his bolognese and things like that. Oblivious. And now, you know, he starts to make it. I'm so proud. He adds it himself. Oh, man. Yeah. You know what Hannah did to me, which I absolutely have to say worked miracles. I have to admit that living healthy and not feeling pains and being able to enjoy life together is so much better than that cookie. And I have to admit to you, it's just because I never really pulled it through all the way to feel the benefits.

55:06Okay. I was like, I'm losing the cookie. You know that meme that I will send it to you. There's a meme on the internet that says, by cutting coffee out of your diet early in the morning, you lose 85 % of the remaining joy you have in your life, right? So sort of like, you know, but the idea is that by cutting that cookie, I'm actually adding so much joy to my life. And I used to tell myself most of my diet is for my health and my cookies for my mental health. Turns out it isn't. Honestly, it was just giving me that joy of feeling free to do whatever I want early in the morning. but I was taxing my body in the long term.

55:43I think that whole, you know, the pains in my joints which are almost completely gone because I changed my diet are definitely something that I found to be very effective rather than just sneaking food into my, even though I will actually learn to do that myself. Honestly, I will learn to do it myself because again, one of the things that I struggled with recently is I don't like fish that much. I used to when I was younger but maybe I can introduce a tiny bit of it in my diet and that would give me the fatty acids again. Yeah, no, absolutely. And the other thing is I'm a big advocate for inclusion and exclusion.

56:19So, you know, if you're having your cookie, grate some carrot in there, grate some courgette so you still get that cookie buzz, right? But you're feeding your microbes at the same time. That's not a cookie. Each to their own, each to their own. But I might send you some of my courgette cookies or carrot cookies and see if you rate it as a kind of a tasty, delicious treat. I will absolutely welcome that. I have to say, not only did I learn a ton, I really enjoyed this conversation. I love the way you present it. I love how much depth you put in it and then so kindly dispense the final outcome because if I were to do that study myself, I would have killed myself with my obsession about detail.

57:01This is really wonderful. I'm really grateful for how openly you shared with us today. And I actually recommend everyone look at your work and maybe visit your clinic, I probably will myself. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. Yeah. So thank you all for giving me that chance to, in this podcast, improve my health as well. I have to admit the top, top, top quality in people that give advice is that they live as per their advice. And I have to say, Megan truly and honestly does. And really it shows. So listen to this one again, follow the rest of her work. Megan is a regular on many shows like this morning in the UK, for example.

57:36and her books are incredible. Her clinic does deliver results. It's been a joy for me to spend this time with her and learn so much. I'm on that journey and actually committed to eat healthier. So if you want to join us, that would be a lovely path that we can take together. Whatever it is that you do, I add to diet, rest and reflection and slowing down because life doesn't really require the kind of speed that we travel through it at. so whatever it is that you're going to do this week find an hour or two to slow down I love you all for listening and I will see you next time