Phil Rosenthal Relives His Childhood Food Trauma & Gets Roasted By His Daughter Lily

6:53Phil Rosenthal:Love Oreo.

6:54Lily Rosenthal:Oreo is the thing that still is as good as I remember. A hundred percent.

6:58Phil Rosenthal:You know what the secret is to an Oreo, why it's everyone's favorite cookie.

7:03Lily Rosenthal:Because it requires milk. It's dry, and you need to drink a cup of milk.

7:06Phil Rosenthal:I'm going to say that's part of it. But I think the main part is, which you don't think of right away. Yeah. If you have the cookie part by itself, what is it not? It's not sweet.

7:20Lily Rosenthal:An Oreo. Oh, got it. Oh, oh, oh, it's not that sweet.

7:23Phil Rosenthal:So it's a perfectly balanced thing. The cream is sweet. My brother and I did a great experiment when we were seven and 12. We thought the best part of the Oreo was the cream. Right. So we literally took out all the cream of all the Oreos in the box and made the big Oreo cream ball and took a bite out of it and wanted to die. Yes. Because it's awful by itself.

7:50Lily Rosenthal:Yeah.

7:51Phil Rosenthal:The cookie to cream ratio in a regular Oreo. A regular Oreo. I'm not saying double stuff. There are people, I think children, who love the double stuff.

8:02Lily Rosenthal:Okay. I like double stuff a lot. I don't have to say I like double stuff too.

8:06Phil Rosenthal:I understand. For me, it's too much. Too much cream. I think it's perfect the way it was. Sure. I understand if you want that extra hit of sweet. Yes. Yes, do it. Yeah. But not too much. The thins are even more grown up. Thins are elegant.

8:21Lily Rosenthal:That's an elegant. Thins are elegant. Elegante. Yeah, that's like pinky up. That's fancy.

8:26Phil Rosenthal:The thins.

8:27Lily Rosenthal:100%.

8:27Phil Rosenthal:Yes. Not as fun.

8:29Lily Rosenthal:Not as fun. No, no, no. That's an after dinner treat. Do you know what I mean?

8:32Phil Rosenthal:Oreo on a dessert menu in any restaurant, like if this is made with Oreo or an Oreo crust of something or an Oreo sundae or an Oreo milkshake, which we have at the diner. I'm in. Every time. It's the perfect. It's like they hit it.

8:47Lily Rosenthal:They can't. They cannot perfect it. I will say my daughter is gluten-free and the gluten-free Oreo, which by the way, does it taste the same? It is, I think the best iteration of a gluten-free. Do you have that? Yes.

9:02Phil Rosenthal:Favorite snacks?

9:03Lily Rosenthal:Yes. We don't have them here. All right. Oreo, if you're listening. We want to try all of your Oreos. So where do you fall on, like, iterations of those things? Like Pop Rocks Oreos or, like, banana flavor or any of the weird stuff. Are you into that? We don't really buy Oreos at the store. But if we were to, I would try any of them. I just haven't. I know. No, it's kind of a weird thing, I think, too. And what they say is the reason I've said this to you on this podcast, so I'm sorry for the listeners who are hearing this again. I'm excited that you've listened to two episodes. If you're actually hearing this for the second time.

9:40Lily Rosenthal:By launching a new flavor, it increases interest in the original. That's very interesting. So it's not really about selling the new one. It's not about the new.

9:47Phil Rosenthal:And if you go to Japan, the food, the snack food is the culture in a way. In other words, like every month there'll be some wild promo at Burger King or McDonald's in Japan. They love playing with these flavors. You know the Kit Kats, right? Always. And the Oreos. I mean, there's something great about Japanese snacks.

10:12Lily Rosenthal:You can get those at World Market. Yeah, absolutely. A lot of Japanese crazy flavors. So I want to go back, Phil, because it actually sounds like you grew up in a cool snack house, even though your parents didn't have good dinner. Yeah, it does sound like that. Like that sounds cool.

10:23Phil Rosenthal:We demanded it. I got only three. Mom wasn't home until five. Dad wasn't home until six. So I had two hours to eat all the junk. It's amazing I'm alive. But I was doing it as a self-preservation because I knew dinner was going to not be good.

10:38Lily Rosenthal:But like for a family that was, you know, watching their pennies, for you to have yodels, that feels very lucky. You know what? I'm just going to make you reflect on that. Yeah, you're right. You didn't have much with your yodels. By the way, yodels to me are the great thing. And I would love to look at the box now because I just recently looked at a box of, I don't even know, Chips Ahoy or something. And they were chocolatey chips because you said that they no longer make Reese's with regular chocolate. And I'm like, suddenly now I'm checking all these like little trick words of like chocolatey.

11:12Lily Rosenthal:It's not chocolate. Chocolatey.

11:14Phil Rosenthal:Yeah, no good. No good. How did you eat a yodel?

11:18Lily Rosenthal:Oh, just all in. I like to peel off the chocolate. That's what I did. Yeah, but then I...

11:23Phil Rosenthal:You put them in the fridge so that it's peelable.

11:25Lily Rosenthal:Oh, I see. Right? Yeah. And then little pieces. And then you peel the whole thing and then you unroll the yodel as much as you can before

11:34Phil Rosenthal:you just shove the whole thing in your mouth.

11:35Lily Rosenthal:So I will make you... If you have me on your Naked Lunch podcast, I will bring you my yodel cake, which actually is on delish.com, which is chocolate cake, marshmallow filling, and then I take yodels and slice them like the swirls and then cover the whole thing in yodel swirls. This sounds like my favorite thing in the world. I want that. I'll bring it for you. I'll make you sit down. I don't have a podcast, but I want the cake. I'll make it.

12:01Phil Rosenthal:But wait, do you find that the yodels taste like they did when we were kids?

12:05Lily Rosenthal:I can't say. I did not grow up in a cool snack house, so any yodel experience I was having was like at a friend's house or like, you know.

12:13Phil Rosenthal:Which made it great to go to a friend's house. Yeah.

12:15Lily Rosenthal:I also did not grow up in a cool snack house. Thank you for mentioning that because, Billy, let's take it over to you. I love you. What was your house like growing up? The healthy versions of everything. We had Newman-O's. Those are great. Oh, Newman-O's. We had some. Come on, they're great. Grape Nuts was the cereal. I mean, everything Newman does is good, but that's not the real deal. It's not Oreos. No. Newman-O's, though. I'm so sorry. Thank you. Why did we think Paul Newman only made healthy goods? Why did we feel like that? Dressing. Yeah. You want to look like Paul Newman? Eat a Newman-o.

12:51Lily Rosenthal:Yeah. But he started with dressing. You're telling me you're going to say no to that face? Didn't he start with Caesar salad dressing? Yes. And then how did we know he was going to make a healthy Oreo? He's cool. Whatever he wants to do. Don't get me wrong, but I just like, I follow a line. He goes to charity and still does. Salsa? What did we think he was?

13:08Phil Rosenthal:How good? How could he have been? Honestly. He had a sombrero and a mustache show. Trust him.

13:13Lily Rosenthal:He did. How did we? I just am dying because that is so. How did we get there where we just trusted him innately? We just were like, this guy obviously knows salsa. Because it was for charity. It was for charity.

13:26Phil Rosenthal:Because he wasn't, had integrity as an actor. He was very gifted. He was married. Just Paul Newman, come on. You're going to have anything.

13:35Lily Rosenthal:He could do anything. Whatever he wants. Anyway, back to the traumatic snacks. Grape nuts is not a snack. Grape nuts is not a snack. Do you remember?

13:44Phil Rosenthal:I don't even like it. Oh, that's fine.

13:46Lily Rosenthal:He, they had a very, very strict, not like angry strict.

13:54Phil Rosenthal:We didn't want to over-sugar the kids.

13:55Lily Rosenthal:We were not allowed to have sugary cereals or snacks. Like we had veggie sticks. Oh, veggies. Instead of like potato chips at the house. Yeah, I know those. Very true. I know those. Yes, it is true. What kind of cereal were you like? You had grape nuts. You are literally lying on a podcast that is crazy of you. There were no chips. Dad. Then how did I get fat? No, dad. There were no chips. We had the healthy versions of all the things. And I know this. And I know this because when I got to college and there were snacks all around, I realized, wow, we can have like goldfish instead of the Annie's version.

14:40Lily Rosenthal:of the do you see what I mean like it's not

14:42Phil Rosenthal:goldfish goldfish was like healthy I'm gonna play my wife yeah

14:45Lily Rosenthal:they thought you know what it was good it was good and okay here was the fun thing though every birthday let me set a scene of what year this is so like you're growing up and why are you a child of the 90s like 97 okay is the birth year okay so early 2000s those are good snack years yeah really good yeah like I would take my friend's snacks because they had like the gushers and things like that. Fruit by the food. Yeah, yeah. Duffaroos. But every birthday, we were allowed, my brother and I, our birthdays are one day apart, three years and one day. So his is August 1st and mine is August 2nd. So for our birthdays, we got to each pick out two sugary cereals.

15:35Lily Rosenthal:Okay? And sometimes we would band together. and like share the cereals. So we actually got four. It was so exciting. One year we traded the one box of cereal for Pop-Tarts. Huge. Huge. Okay, so I was a great parent. You were great. I love that. You were keeping us healthy. So tell me, what was regular cereal in a normal, like on a non-birthday day? No, I'm telling you what was it. It was Grape Nuts. It was Grape Nuts. Like for real, it was Grape Nuts. Grape Nuts is like, that's like. Chopped wood. and literally cereal yeah yeah i was just gonna say that's like what what are those like panda o's or like the you know the peanut buttery oh you anyone know what i'm talking about like the the puffs like not penguin puffs puffins puffins that's it puffins i mean puffins that's a healthy one yeah that's a healthy one all right so now let's go to so so birthday cereal was birthday cereal was what's your favorite okay lucky charms the best and i would eat the cereal part first yep because i only actually wanted the marshmallows and then i would eat all the marshmallows at once incredible and then the other one was cap 'n crunch oh my gosh but not the ones with the berries just the plain peanut butter yeah yeah cap 'n crunch so i grew up in the 60s

16:54Phil Rosenthal:These things were marketed at us. There were no healthy choice cereals.

16:59Lily Rosenthal:Yeah, right.

17:00Phil Rosenthal:The reason your mother and I gravitated toward those healthy ones was because we didn't have them. We were shocked at the preservatives and the sugar that was dumped on us by our parents because that's what we did. I used to beg to go to McDonald's. I used to beg for any fast food because at least it had flavor. Right.

17:27Lily Rosenthal:I hear you. I think you did the right thing.

17:30Phil Rosenthal:Wait, so what was your favorite sugary cereal? We had things you couldn't dream of. We had cow chocula and frank and berry and boo berry and kaboom, which was, I think, most new marshmallows. It was insane what they let children eat. And my parents didn't know any better.

17:51Lily Rosenthal:Well, because it was marketed to your point. It was like essential vitamins and all that.

17:55Phil Rosenthal:I grew up in an age where doctors were smoking and advertising the healthiest cigarette. Dr.

18:00Lily Rosenthal:Pepper was like, wasn't that a health drink at one point? Yes. It said doctor in the name of the soda. Yeah. I mean, of course we listened to Paul Newman. Who else were we going to listen to? Exactly. So we wanted to give our children a better life, Lily. And you gave it to me, and I'm so grateful. And I will probably, when I have kids one day, do the exact same thing. So there's no shame. There's no shame. Here's the thing. I grew up in a house where the sugariest we got was Honey Nut Cheerios, which, by the way, is quite sugary. Of course it is. But for somehow— But they've tricked you into thinking it's healthy.

18:34Lily Rosenthal:I will tell you, they do make now marshmallow-only Lucky Charms. So I'm just going to tell you that— That was a real gasp. Yes. I was like genuinely interested. A box full of marshmallows. And it only comes out once in a while. And if Delish can get their hands on it for you, we're going to have to make that happen. We will make dreams come true. Yes. For little Lily. You know what's fun is to do a Lucky Charms milkshake or like a Lucky Charms, like use the marshmallows on ice cream. We do milkshakes at our diner and we're starting to do weekly specials for the milkshake. This week we're doing a peanut butter and jelly shake.

19:12Lily Rosenthal:Oh my. Wait, okay. So let's start from the beginning. Tell me about the diner. You start. Please. All of it. Where is it?

19:18Phil Rosenthal:We filmed an episode of Somebody Feed Phil in Maine, and I went to the best diner I'd ever been to in Biddeford, Maine, an old abandoned railroad dining car with 15 seats that a great chef from Gramercy Tavern in New York took over. Stop. His name is Greg Mitchell, and he left the menu exactly as it was 100 years ago, and what is that? It's pancakes, waffles, eggs, bacon. Maybe he added a chicken sandwich, but everything on this very short menu was the best of that I ever had. If you go to the episode, you can see me go nuts. And I went all over the world that year. The meal I remember was the diner.

19:57Phil Rosenthal:Why? Because we all know this food. We all love this food. It's the comfort food of childhood. It stays with us our whole life. Everyone is an expert in it. He even said to me when I was freaking out, he goes, I go, this is incredible. He goes, it's a pretty low bar. I said, no, it's a very high bar. Because you're literally competing with people's beloved memories.

20:19Lily Rosenthal:Yeah. That's so true. Also, diners, too, like so many of the menus. I mean, I grew up in New Jersey and like, you know, diner. Diner person. Yes. Right. But menus at diners are huge. Gigantic. Yes. So you're not really incentivized to make the pancakes the best they could possibly be. Exactly. Because you've got to cook 600 other things.

20:38Phil Rosenthal:Plus, they're meant to be for everyone. Right. Meaning the price point should be very low. which is a very good reason diners are disappearing in America because they can't make a living. I come home after doing that obsessed. And I say to Nancy Silverton, our friend for 30 years, who lives in the neighborhood too and is one of the best chefs in the country, if not the world.

21:02Lily Rosenthal:Hands down. You want to do this diner on our main street in Larchmont, Los Angeles?

21:10Phil Rosenthal:And she's in right away. She grew up in L.A. She didn't really know diner. She knew maybe Ships was a coffee shop and had diner-esque menu. And then we started researching, and it was so fun tasting food and everything. And going around, we had two days of milkshake crawls through Los Angeles. It was really fun and great. Some of it was forced upon us because it took so long to get a space open on the block. Right, right. And then the city, impossible to deal with, all the permitting and all that, took how many years? Two years. While this is going on, Lily gets a boyfriend who happens to be a chef.

21:53Lily Rosenthal:It's true. I dated a boy. Tell us about Mason. Okay, so Mason. Mason Royal. Yep, I'm obsessed with him. Okay. He is an amazing chef, and we met at Coachella because he was running a little - As well does. His restaurant at the time. Okay. Right? And we fell in love. We get engaged. We - He is in the process of doing this diner, and I bring him to one of the tastings.

22:24Phil Rosenthal:Right? I brought the family involved in the tasting. I didn't want it to just be my taste. It's very important. Young people like it. Of course. And she's here. She's dating a chef. So bring the chef. Yes. He'll have good things to say. And sure enough, he had great things to say. And Nancy Silverton, without telling me, takes him aside and talks to him and then calls me and says, what if Mason ran the diner? And I said, well, if you say it, Nancy Silverton, that it's not nepotism.

22:50Lily Rosenthal:Yeah, exactly. A loophole. We found it. Yes. Thank you.

22:54Phil Rosenthal:So Nancy, you know, because Mason's opened how many restaurants?

22:58Lily Rosenthal:This is his 17th restaurant opening. So he's...

23:01Phil Rosenthal:No, it's not like we put a guy in there that we like. This is a... Yes. We love him. He's a professional. Absolutely. So you know what happened the week before the diner opened? They got married. We got married. Their going away brunch was at the diner that hadn't opened yet. Oh, come on.

23:22Lily Rosenthal:So what's the diner called? I should know this.

23:24Phil Rosenthal:It's named after my parents.

23:25Lily Rosenthal:It's called Max and Helen's. Oh, stop. So it's really sweet. And we'll be right back.

23:34Phil Rosenthal:So there's a living love story going on in Lily and Mason at the diner. She's the front of house. She's the director, creative director, and he's the director of operations.

23:45Lily Rosenthal:Yeah.

23:46Phil Rosenthal:It's not a big place. It's 45 seats inside, another 30 or so outside. And it's really just a diner. But the goal was to make every single ingredient of every single dish and every recipe for these very simple foods. Right, right. The best they could be without being fancy. Right. So the best bacon, egg and cheese you ever had. The best waffle you ever had. The best hot chocolate you ever had. The shakes. every single thing is dialed in for years, literally years, tweaking. And we're still tweaking.

24:26Lily Rosenthal:Yeah.

24:27Phil Rosenthal:It's so fun. That is the most fun. How many things on the menu? Not too many. It's a two-page menu.

24:33Lily Rosenthal:Yeah. And what's your favorite thing you make? Ooh. I mean, we have something on the menu called Lily's Hot Chocolate. So I feel like that has to be my favorite because I happen to be Lily. But also, this hot chocolate is a thick Parisian-style hot chocolate.

24:52Phil Rosenthal:You ever been to Angelina in Paris?

24:54Lily Rosenthal:No, I know I should have gone the last time, but it's phenomenal. You don't have to go.

24:57Phil Rosenthal:You come to the night. I'm going to have to go.

25:01Lily Rosenthal:Thick, Parisian-style hot chocolate. Yeah. On top, a homemade marshmallow fluff that we then torch every time.

25:11Phil Rosenthal:So I always say it's like a cup of Paris with a big hunk of America on top. Oh, yes.

25:16Lily Rosenthal:Yes. Actually, it's funny. I think I also tell the story. Sorry, I only have two stories. Really, I would be shocked if people know my, no, at all. But, you know, the big, the big supermarket in France, I literally just came back from Paris from a work trip and went to the big, no, it's the one Le Grand. Oh, like the supermarket.

25:39Phil Rosenthal:Yeah, the big supermarket. Yeah, I know.

25:40Lily Rosenthal:The Grand, not charcuterie, the Grand something, some market. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever. Right. Exactly. And so it's right next to the Marsh. Anyway, in the American section, there's one American section and it is like two shelves of marshmallow fluff. It's not a joke. That's not a. There we go. With a picture of Jerry Lewis. It's Heinz ketchup and Heinz ketchup and marshmallow fluff is the America section with a few. I like that. What's your favorite thing on the menu?

26:13Phil Rosenthal:I'm there every day. I love every single thing on the menu because we picked it together. Like soups of the day, I'm like so excited. Today is split pea because I'm old.

26:26Lily Rosenthal:Nothing gets him going like a soup of the day.

26:30Phil Rosenthal:I swear, I feel like I built my retirement home. Like in a couple of years, I'll just be in the back. How's your soup, darling? Very nice to see you. But why not? That's a dream. And then you see my kids running it and be so happy. Oh, it's so fun. It's so, it's a dream.

26:48Lily Rosenthal:For her to find her calling. I mean, you know, she's great at this. Did you study any, like, and, like, so this wasn't a dream. Restaurant running wasn't your dream. Absolutely not. Like, truly not at all. I thought I wanted to be an actor. I thought I wanted to be a writer and a producer. And she could have been.

27:07Phil Rosenthal:She's very good.

27:08Lily Rosenthal:Thank you. I just, nothing brought me joy the way this brings me joy. Feeding people does that. I've never experienced this. Because show business will tell you. Yeah. This will nourish you. Well, here's what I'm going to say. Do people in LA eat? Like, do people in LA know how to eat?

27:23Phil Rosenthal:They do there.

27:24Lily Rosenthal:Oh, yeah. Like, yeah.

27:26Phil Rosenthal:Let me tell you something. We have a great food city. When people aren't looking, they're animals.

27:30Lily Rosenthal:That's what I want to know. Because I'm like, here's what we know of them. We know Irwan smoothies. I know. We get that because we have a lot of Pilates and we have a lot of smoothies and the salads. Yes. And we do have all those things. But on top of that, we have an incredible diverse food scene. You do. And we have incredible produce and incredible access to that produce. And we're very lucky because we get to celebrate all cultures and have their food. And it's unreal. We're so lucky.

28:04Phil Rosenthal:I'm going to give you an exclusive. Please. I've never been inside an air one. Really? Look at my own daughter. I didn't even tell her.

28:14Lily Rosenthal:What's your favorite smoothie?

28:16Phil Rosenthal:I was embarrassed.

28:17Lily Rosenthal:I like Hailey Bieber's strawberry glaze smoothie. I just had that. I really enjoy it. It's phenomenal. The Hailey Bieber smoothie. The Hailey Bieber smoothie. Which has 610 calories.

28:28Phil Rosenthal:Hailey made it for me at the house the other day.

28:31Lily Rosenthal:You've never been in air one. It's actually, it's a food experience. You've eaten at the best restaurants in the world.

28:37Phil Rosenthal:I have.

28:37Lily Rosenthal:Erwin, you should go as a food experience because it is such a culture phenomenon.

28:42Phil Rosenthal:I've seen videos where people have heart attacks as they turn the package over and see what it costs.

28:47Lily Rosenthal:There are some of that, but I also don't think it's like.

28:50Phil Rosenthal:It's not that?

28:51Lily Rosenthal:It doesn't feel like that different than Whole Foods to me.

28:54Phil Rosenthal:I love Whole Foods.

28:55Lily Rosenthal:Yeah. There's Whole Foods and then maybe like, yeah, a notch up is Erwin. It is expensive. Certain items. 100 % certain items yes certain items no

29:06Phil Rosenthal:so the Halle

29:08Lily Rosenthal:the Haley Halle Bieber I was going to say

29:10Phil Rosenthal:Halle Berry

29:11Lily Rosenthal:the Halle Berry would also be a great smoothie yeah the strawberry glaze smoothie is very nice I don't know what it costs right off the bat if anyone knows it's like I it's just like in the double digits I think I don't know but like a low double or like a high I would say like maybe$11 someone's going to check $11 Oh, it is. It's$21. It's$21. Well, it's very good for your skin, apparently. They had a wine. And sorry. I literally just got one. As I told you, it was just in L.A. And I went by and I was like, you know what? I'm going to get the Hailey Bieber smoothie and just see what all the fuss is about.

29:47Lily Rosenthal:And it was actually pretty good. You don't want it if you enjoy it? Good. Well, that's it. It's not just for the flavor, though. The whole point is that there are so many things in it that are genuinely good for you. So you're getting all of that in addition to just a smoothie. You know what I mean? It's 10 % of any smoothie sold after this podcast. This is actually sponsored by Erin. Click on her affiliate link, the link in bio. She's going to get a cut.

30:12Phil Rosenthal:Can you imagine what Yodel should give me?

30:14Lily Rosenthal:I mean, let's get the Yodel people on supply. Yodel people, if you're listening, I do feel like Phil's a good...

30:19Phil Rosenthal:All the Drake's products I loved.

30:21Lily Rosenthal:Drake's. Drake's cakes. The ringdings. My dad used to love, what are the butterscotch crimpets? The butterscotch crimpets. Oh, my God. There was a book when I was a kid that talked about crumpets, and I remember seeing them in real life for the first time and freaking out. They were real. They were so good. They were so good. That whole snack cake genre is an unsung hero. I've done that as a snack world.

30:47Phil Rosenthal:They use dark chocolate. See, that's what I'm attracted to. Yes, the yodel, the ring, I'm realizing it. The Oreo is using dark chocolate.

30:56Lily Rosenthal:Maybe that's your affinity.

30:58Phil Rosenthal:Yes, yes, not too sweet. Every baker will tell you, Nancy Silverton especially, will tell you the secret to a great dessert is not too sweet because anyone can add sugar and make it a sugar bomb. Yeah, that's true. That's easy. The trick is to balance it so that it has a little complexity, a little more interesting, and that way you can eat more of it.

31:19Lily Rosenthal:Well, that's what I was going to say. That's what dark chocolate does because it's like, and you're like, I need more dark chocolate to feed the dark chocolate need.

31:26Phil Rosenthal:And it actually turns out that we've read this now for years. Cocoa is fantastic.

31:32Lily Rosenthal:Very good for you. Yes. Although I am not someone, I love dark chocolate, but I do, I was just at my sister's and she's health conscious, I would say. And they have these super dark chocolate like nibs that you can use.

31:45Phil Rosenthal:Oh, like the 90%, 100%. And I was like, that's. I call that chocolate with all the pleasure taken out. Yeah.

31:52Lily Rosenthal:It does feel a little bit like that. I was powering through. I know my brother-in-law might be listening. So I'm like, because he is the person who will have heard the stories a few times. Andy, if you're there, thank you for the nips.

32:02Phil Rosenthal:But a nice 72%.

32:04Lily Rosenthal:72 is, I think, where I max out. Yeah. All right. I also want to talk about your book. Yes, our kid's book. Your kid's book. Just try it. And so I want to know, like, Phil, you have eaten at the best restaurants in the world. What would you say is your hands down favorite restaurant of all time? Have we already covered the diner or is there another one up there that takes the top?

32:25Phil Rosenthal:it changes every day. It changes like people see me on the show. It says, you say everything is your favorite thing. Yeah, because I'm having it now. Yeah. And I mean it. Short-term memory. So it's not short-term memory. It's just the best thing is living in the moment, they say. Yeah, it's right. I'm not trying to. It just is. Yeah. So this past season, we went to the Basque country in Spain. Have you ever been there?

32:51Lily Rosenthal:I've never been to Spain.

32:52Phil Rosenthal:So one of the best restaurants ever in the world is called Echabari. And it's one guy who cooks every single dish for every single customer himself over wood fire.

33:06Lily Rosenthal:That sounds insane.

33:07Phil Rosenthal:He has help in the kitchen to plate it, clean it. But every single thing, these little clams, I think they're called coppoles. He cooks them until they open. And when you get them, you get a collection of maybe eight to ten of these in a bowl. They're somehow cooked but raw. I don't know what it is, but it's on this magic tightrope of cooked but raw. How? I don't even understand. They were warm, beautiful, but also like having a raw clam. And then when that happens, the flavor explodes because it's a magic trick. So every dish is that, and you can see it in the show if you want.

33:53Lily Rosenthal:Have you been back since you shot there?

33:56Phil Rosenthal:No, but my brother did. He went back. He took his wife. I'll be back.

34:00Lily Rosenthal:I do have to say that that's the dream job, right? I mean, it sounds like you have your dream job, but to travel around the world and eat at the best restaurants.

34:09Phil Rosenthal:You know what this is called? a scam.

34:11Lily Rosenthal:It is a bit of a scam. I want to know what that pitch is. Everybody who can play. I'll tell you the thing. What if I ran around the world and ate the things I like? Anything I like. Yes. I mean, I do feel like.

34:22Phil Rosenthal:It took me 10 years to get the show. Just so you know. Just so you know that they just after Raymond, they didn't just hand me a show. It took me 10 years after Everybody Loves Raymond to get this show. And the first place that I was able to sell it was PBS.

34:36Lily Rosenthal:Right. Of course.

34:37Phil Rosenthal:And I sold the show with one line. This is the line. I'm exactly like Anthony Bourdain. He was afraid of everything. They actually said we've been looking for a food and travel show with humor for years. Wow. So all of a sudden, after hitting my head against the wall for 10 years, at every food network, travel channel, all the places, network, everything.

34:59Lily Rosenthal:Yeah.

35:00Phil Rosenthal:I was suddenly in the right place at the right time. And then along came Netflix.

35:04Lily Rosenthal:That's what Ina says. Be there when the luck happens.

35:06Phil Rosenthal:Be there when the luck happens.

35:07Lily Rosenthal:And that happens.

35:08Phil Rosenthal:So we're Netflix's longest running unscripted show. And now, I don't know if you've heard, this just came out last night. No. The show is moving next year, 2027. The show is moving to YouTube where it will be free to the world.

35:24Lily Rosenthal:Oh, that's amazing. Congratulations. Thank you. So happy. Oh, that's fantastic. So you get to eat at more great places around the world.

35:32Phil Rosenthal:I was going to find a way to do this the rest of my life, no matter what.

35:35Lily Rosenthal:We're just going to watch and be along for the ride. Thanks. What was craft services like on Everybody Loves Raymond?

35:40Phil Rosenthal:Best in Town. It was very important. Very important to me because I worked at places. I worked on a hit show for someone else. Okay. And I got this, everyone got in the building, 150 people work in this building, making a big TV show, a memo from the top. What did it say? We noticed some of you are coming into the kitchen in the morning and putting milk on your cereal. The milk is for coffee. The cereal is for snacking. Please do not put milk on your cereal. We do not provide breakfast for you. There's a memo that someone at the top thought would engender, I don't know, loyalty? I couldn't. All I did was I read this and I said, whoa.

36:29Phil Rosenthal:If I'm ever lucky enough to have my own show, we're going to have milk on the cereal.

36:33Lily Rosenthal:Did you pour that? So what did you do? You took the bowl. You put the milk back in the carton. You put the siphon the milk back in. So then you get every well of a dream. And so what was your shit?

36:45Phil Rosenthal:I say to the line producer, a line producer on a TV show is in charge of the budget of the show. Right. The sets cost this much. We allocate this money for this to pay the writers, to pay the actors. I say, I have a meeting with her. Before we start, I have to talk to you. Yes. I don't care where you get the money from. We're going to have the best craft service in town because I believe that the army travels on its stomach. And if you can have great stuff, not just if you've ever done a TV show, but if you go backstage, there's what they call craft service. What is that? Snacks. It's candy. It's usually junk food.

37:22Lily Rosenthal:Yeah. Pre-made like ham and cheese sandwiches. Yes. You know. Yeah.

37:27Phil Rosenthal:Whatever. Just stuff to put in your mouth. Yeah. Yeah. What if it was great? We had a dedicated chef making fresh soups every day, fresh sandwiches. We brought in things from other cities, flown in. Once a year, we brought in Joe Stonecrabs and covered the writer's table with newspaper and took the hammers from the set department and cracked the crabs. Once a year. Once a year, we brought in Ann Sather's cinnamon buns from Chicago. We had food trucks backstage before they were a thing. Oh, my gosh. On shoot nights. We had people making tortillas and tacos backstage. stage. It was a party. And what happens then?

38:06Phil Rosenthal:You create a family.

38:08Lily Rosenthal:That does make a difference. Huge. It makes a huge difference. We have family meal, the kitchen team here at the Delicious Kitchen. They make the family meal at lunch every day. This is about the food. That's what's about the food. And it's a moment for everybody to come together, to enjoy the meal. It's like family meal at the restaurant. Yes. Do you guys do family meal? Honestly, we don't do family meal before shift because it's all day. It's 8 a.m. to 8 p.m.

38:33Phil Rosenthal:But there are things I noticed that the chefs make that they eat. Oh, yeah. That's awesome.

38:36Lily Rosenthal:Well, we'll have stuff. Anyone can have that. Yeah. We'll have stuff in the back that is just for the staff, which is really nice. That's our version of craft service. I love that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

38:46Phil Rosenthal:And sometimes it's awesome, and sometimes you go, that should be on the menu.

38:50Lily Rosenthal:Oh, that's fun. See, that's awesome. One day he made me mac and cheese because I was really craving mac and cheese. Yeah. And everybody tasted it and we were like, we need this on the menu. So now every Wednesday we have mac and cheese. Oh, that's fun. Which is really fun. It's lucky that you get to be the first line of defense on that. It's really. It is. That's pretty handy. The book. Oh, my God. I started with the book. Tell me about the book. Sorry. Thanks, Sarita. Let's talk about the book. Just try it. Were you a good eater? Were you going up? I was actually a really good eater. I tried everything.

39:21Lily Rosenthal:I really wasn't. Did not.

39:22Phil Rosenthal:I told you about the home life. I know. Well, you ate a lot of snacks. My parents, when my mother saw that I got a food and travel show, she said, I can't believe that you're now this expert. When you were a kid, you didn't eat anything. And my father said, maybe it was the chef.

39:37Lily Rosenthal:It sounds like it could have been. But so what was the evidence for this? Okay, so the first book we wrote was called Just Try It, and it was to get kids to try new foods. This second book, it's called Just Try It, Someplace New, and it is to help kids overcome their fear of going somewhere new for the first time overnight. Aww. Yeah. So in this book, Phil takes Lil to Grandma's house for a sleepover, and she's very nervous to not sleep in her own bed. She's very nervous that Grandma is going to only have broccoli in her kitchen. What was Grandma's house actually like? It was great. It was really great.

40:15Lily Rosenthal:But that's the message in the book, that sometimes it's better than what you expect. So Grandma pulled out all the stops for the grandchildren, it sounds like.

40:22Phil Rosenthal:Yes, I'm very resentful, yes.

40:24Lily Rosenthal:She finally got it together. Did Grandma have a good snack house too? She did, and she would always take us for Carvel. That was the best. Carvel. Oh my God.

40:34Phil Rosenthal:Carvel, my dad loved more than anything.

40:36Lily Rosenthal:They would take us there every time.

40:38Phil Rosenthal:Did you know this? He actually thought of buying the local franchise of Carvel because he loved it so much.

40:43Lily Rosenthal:Oh, we should have done that.

40:44Phil Rosenthal:Yeah.

40:44Lily Rosenthal:It's really sad. It's a different kind of soft serve. It is amazing. I really actually feel like it's not the same. And the chocolate crunch things. The chocolate crunchies. Oh, my God. All of those, like, fudgy the whale cakes and stuff. We would get one for every part.

40:55Phil Rosenthal:There's something about the consistency of it. It's probably, we'd be mortified, I think, to find out what's really. I'm sure. I don't know. I don't know.

41:02Lily Rosenthal:I just want to keep eating. But whatever. It's definitely creamier than normal. But that is amazing that your grandma finally got it together. Yeah. We're going to close this out with a lightning round. Love a lightning round. And, okay, this question's for Phil. Best snack city in the world. Oh. What? Tokyo. I've sent you back. Oh, right.

41:22Phil Rosenthal:Is this lightning fast enough for you?

41:24Lily Rosenthal:No, it's pretty fast. Yeah, yeah. This is, you figured it out. Well, we said it.

41:29Phil Rosenthal:We said it was Tokyo. Tokyo, yeah.

41:30Lily Rosenthal:It's part of the culture. Sorry, I had to help remind me. I actually really appreciate that. No, I get it. I get it. Lily, favorite midnight snack. Oh, my God. Pizza. Pizza, we did it. Oh, yeah, okay. Pizza. Pizza. Yeah, we're helping each other. Wait, does L.A. have good pizza?

41:45Phil Rosenthal:It is now a world-class pizza city. There's a New York slice that is always going to be, you know, my heart. Yes. But there are places in L.A. that do it.

41:58Lily Rosenthal:Okay.

41:58Phil Rosenthal:Plus they do Detroit, plus they do grandma style, plus they do.

42:02Lily Rosenthal:I did hear good things about that.

42:04Phil Rosenthal:Like you're in Naples. Yes. Like that. I mean, I'm going to say that we're having a pizza moment in L.A. started by Nancy Silverton 20 years ago, 25 years ago now. Absolutely phenomenal pizza. I'll put it up against any city.

42:19Lily Rosenthal:I have eaten her pizza, and actually not in L.A., but she opened a restaurant in, oh, Lord, I'm not making myself approachable at all, but Capo San Lucas. Yes, that's right. She opened it down there. Exactly right. And I ate with her, and it was delicious. It's stunning, right? Guys, this is the slowest lightning I've ever seen. This is, Serena's like, yeah, this happens. Because then I get too real, I get interested in what they're saying. Oh, I love it. Okay, I'm sorry. Phil, best airplane snack.

42:46Phil Rosenthal:You know, there's been a study that says ginger ale on the plane tastes better than on the ground. Also, tomato juice or Bloody Mary mix by itself tastes better than it does on the ground. Sorry, is ginger ale your favorite?

42:59Lily Rosenthal:Is ginger ale a snack?

43:01Phil Rosenthal:Can I say that?

43:02Lily Rosenthal:I mean, you can say whatever you want. This is in a judgment-free zone, but I am slightly judging. I'm judging a little because gingerbread doesn't play a snack. You love popcorn. Yeah.

43:12Phil Rosenthal:I love popcorn anywhere, so I guess I'm an airplane here.

43:15Lily Rosenthal:But I appreciate that. I'm sure there is truth to that science. I'm just trying to make it fascinating for you, dear. I get it. I want this show to be a success. I get it. No, I really appreciate it, honestly. Okay, Lily, snack you stole from your dad. A snack favorite you stole from your dad. Yeah, I would say chocolate peanut butter cups. Really? Yeah. Okay. I love a Reese's peanut butter cup. We are talking here about, just try it, so I have to say, snack you wish everybody would try once. Ooh. Or food you wish everyone would try once, because you've eaten everywhere.

43:49Phil Rosenthal:The dark chocolate peanut butter cup. Oh. Because they've only had the milk. But, you know, I do a live tour where I have these speaking engagements, and I love doing it. And Lily said, you have to have a rider. I said, I don't need a rider. I'm not like, I'm not. Yeah. ACDC.

44:06Lily Rosenthal:I love that you went to ACDC, that they're the ones known for writers. But go ahead. Really? I'm helling his age. No, go ahead. I would actually die to see ACDC's writer right now.

44:17Phil Rosenthal:Who are the ones who said no brown M &Ms or we don't play?

44:21Lily Rosenthal:Doesn't Beyonce have some writer that's like only like ivory fruit?

44:24Phil Rosenthal:Well, Frank Sinatra had a writer. Yes, he did. That was insane. He did. Crazy. Frank Sinatra. I said, I don't need a writer. She goes, you know what? You come off stage and you're tired and you need energy because you're going to meet now I'll meet and greet 100 people. Okay, energy, good idea. Can it be chocolate? She said, yes. I said, what? She goes, whatever you want. And then I thought of it. In every location, there's always a local chocolatier. Oh. And when I go to a local chocolatier, what do I look for? The dark chocolate peanut butter cup. Interesting. Most of them make it in the world.

44:58Lily Rosenthal:So he now collects them from every city. He'll go. He'll have them. And if he comes, like, the day after, becomes home the day after, bring home the peanut butter cups. What city has the best peanut butter cups? They're most of them are great. We've had so many.

45:13Phil Rosenthal:And some charlotte tears that are fans of the show, they didn't make it but made it for me. Oh, that's nice. It's the sweetest, greatest thing. That's really sweet. And I have to tell you, I've been doing this now for several years, multiple, you know, 100 shows a year. Yeah. I'm not sick of it yet. I still look forward to it.

45:31Lily Rosenthal:That's really sweet. That's actually really sweet. I also really love that somebody's like, all right, now I've got to find a Chalatier. Find a Chalatier.

45:38Phil Rosenthal:By the way, I played the Beacon Theater. Yeah. And it just shows you that the bigger the theater, the less they care about your demands. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Package of Justin's. Thrown on the count here.

45:47Lily Rosenthal:No. That's not okay. Okay, but you like the Beacon Theater. Love.

45:50Phil Rosenthal:We love the Beacon Theater. Yes. Let's cut this open.

45:55Lily Rosenthal:But we could do better. I'm sure we got a better local chocolatier. All right. You are the author of Just Try It. But what's the snack you'll absolutely not eat? Or food you absolutely will not eat? I won't eat anything crazy spicy.

46:09Phil Rosenthal:Yes, Lily.

46:10Lily Rosenthal:I'm sorry. I just can't do it.

46:12Phil Rosenthal:Maybe you inherit that from your grandparents. Yeah. We have a hot sauce at the diner. They would have been caught dead with hot sauce because the only condiment we had in the house was salt.

46:21Lily Rosenthal:Right, of course.

46:22Phil Rosenthal:So our hot sauce is really quite good and not very spicy. Yeah. But it still says Max and Helen's Not For Me Hot Sauce.

46:31Lily Rosenthal:And the label is a drawing of the two of them going like this.

46:35Phil Rosenthal:With their hand up. Not for me. That's amazing. You said this is a little spicy. They would say, not for me.

46:42Lily Rosenthal:Not for me. Yeah, not for me. Thank you. All right. I got to ask you both. Salty or sweet? One, two, three. Salty. Oh, Lily. I wasn't expecting that. I love sweets. Oh, my God. I shocked myself. I love that. I was freaking salty though. But a salty sweet snack is the real thing.

46:58Phil Rosenthal:By the way, what's a chocolate peanut butter? It's salting sweet. There you go.

47:02Lily Rosenthal:Look at that. And that's where we end. I loved having you guys. Thank you so much. Thanks so much for joining Snacks. Make sure you like, subscribe, and listen wherever you get your podcasts. And follow us on all social platforms at Snacks Podcast. We'll see you next time.