What’s the Snark on “America’s Next Top Model”?

7:59Sophie Ross:And before that, Tyra Banks was a household name, I would say, to maybe like our parents. She was she was one of those 90s supermodel it girls, but she wasn't really in the public consciousness, at least for us until America's Next Top Model. So let's get into a little bit about Tyra and her background. So Tyra was born Tyra Lynn Banks. It's not a stage name, even though it just sounds like such a supermodel name, Tyra Banks. Like it's a real name.

8:30Christy Noel:Yeah.

8:30Sophie Ross:December 4th, 1973 in Inglewood, California, a Sagittarius. Love it. I actually love Sagittarii. So that gets her some points at my book. She was born to mother Carolyn London and father Donald Banks, who later divorced when Tyra was six and she grew up in California. And she said that she was considered an ugly duckling and was made fun of for her appearance, which surprises me when you look at childhood photos of her. There are a lot out there. She always seemed beautiful from a very young age.

9:03Christy Noel:Why do really stunning celebrities always say that? You know, I was bullied in high school and guys didn't like me. Like that's always the story.

9:11Sophie Ross:It really is always the story. I can see it for some models because a lot of them are really tall and skinny and they're always like, I was bullied for being like a stick figure or whatever. Yeah. So maybe I'm not going to like discount her experience, but in photos, she was always just very, very, very striking. She's always had an insane face card.

9:31Christy Noel:Never declines.

9:32Sophie Ross:Never declines and still doesn't to this day. Like she is just stunning, stunning, stunning. Always has been, in my opinion. Around 1989 slash 1990, she was discovered by a scout at a shopping mall in L.A. and like all of those models of that era, instead of being Nepo babies or Instagram baddies, they were all discovered like just out in the wild. Like Naomi Campbell was noticed on the streets near her school. Kate Moss was discovered at JFK airport. I literally thought, would you walk around the mall growing up thinking that you were going to be discovered? Because I actually thought I would be.

10:11Christy Noel:Definitely not for me because I didn't have the look, but yes, I understand what you're saying. Jennifer Lawrence also was founded, I think because she was working at Abercrombie or something and then she got picked up by Abercrombie Corporate. But yeah, this was like a very, before Instagram was a thing, people, talent agents would just go to the mall and like scope out young kids, which is kind of weird to think about.

10:30Sophie Ross:Yeah, and I think that's why we look back at 90s supermodels with such kind of nostalgia and appreciation because those don't exist anymore. You have Kendall Jenner, Hailey Bieber, Bella Hadid. Not that they're not all beautiful, but they also were born into Hollywood and they've all had surgery from a young age. They they're all beautiful. But again, they don't have that, in my opinion, like special real spark that I think these 90s supermodels have like Tyra and Kate Moss and Naomi Campbell.

11:05Christy Noel:What do they say when they differentiate a commercial versus editorial? Right. That's the differentiating. Tyra loves saying that also. So yeah, that's probably where I got it.

11:17Sophie Ross:Yeah. So she first signed to LA models after actually being rejected by four agencies. She then signed with elite model management in 1990 and moved to Milan for a bit. And this helped catapult her into major, major success on both the runway and editorial. And I do think that she had both looks. Like, I think that she had that very commercial look to her because she is very conventionally beautiful, but also she was really tall and statuesque. So she kind of just had everything going for her. She booked 25 shows her first Paris fashion week, walking for designers like Chanel, Valentino, Dior.

11:56Sophie Ross:And this was a big deal. Like she was really breaking down barriers because she was one of the very few black supermodels who were cast in these high profile shows at the time. And she also was on the cover of international editions of magazines like Elle magazine, et cetera. She was also the first black woman to appear solo on the cover of GQ magazine in 1996. That's huge. Huge. And in 1997, she was the first black woman to appear solo on the cover of Sports Illustrated. And she later that year, 1997, she became one of the first black Victoria's Secret models. Again, she was just the it girl at the time.

12:37Sophie Ross:And she was also on the cover of Seventeen magazine in 1998. Also in the 90s, she was working with the major, major, major fashion houses, Chanel, Valentino, Dior, Versace, repeatedly just on magazine covers left and right doing runways, campaigns. She was everywhere. Notably, her and Naomi Campbell were both those two Black supermodels at the time. And they famously had a feud. Do you remember this at all?

13:10Christy Noel:No, I don't. But I am not surprised by this feud because I think when we think about the context of the time, this is like the mid-90s, late 90s, Black women were not celebrated in these spaces as much as white women. I mean, they still aren't, but it was even more, the gap was even tighter. So it makes, it comes as no surprise that if you're fighting for these same opportunities, naturally there will become a feud. I don't blame the women for like getting into this because I could imagine how tough it must have been for both of them.

13:39Sophie Ross:Yeah, exactly. And Tyra was a few years younger than Naomi. So they began like from the beginning of her career, she was kind of in Naomi's shadow a little bit. But Naomi was already an established supermodel global icon. So then Tyra's on the scene. And then all of a sudden, it's like they're competing for these gigs. Because like you said, there wasn't a whole lot of space for Black supermodels at the time. It was like you would have your one token Black supermodel. And then the rest were white. So it was like they were competing against each other, unfortunately. From Tyra's point of view, she said that she felt like Naomi was a gatekeeper and was using her influence to kind of block opportunities from Tyra and other Black models.

14:24Sophie Ross:And I will say one thing about Naomi Campbell, you never really hear that she's a nice person.

14:29Christy Noel:Yeah, we should do Naomi. Yeah, we should do an episode on her. I feel like there's a lot of controversy around her and a lot of rumors circulating around her. I don't know. Yeah, we should do one.

14:39Sophie Ross:Absolutely. She has so much lore, a lot of scandals. She has thrown things at people, but also she's iconic. So she deserves that right, I guess. Yeah. I'm not excusing it, but like I can understand it when you're like that beautiful and iconic. So Naomi and Tyra famously patched things up during a 2005 episode of the Tyra Binks show. Basically, it's just Tyra telling Naomi how she hurt her and Naomi not giving a fuck. And have you ever watched this clip? Christy, it's so funny.

15:14Christy Noel:Oh my gosh, I'm watching it right now and it's painful.

15:20Sophie Ross:So yeah, she has the studio like completely empty and it's so awkward. And Naomi just walks out and it's just like, just the clicking of her shoes. It's so awkward. It's just so uncomfortable. But water under the bridge, I suppose. Let's take a quick ad break to talk about Lola blankets. One thing about me is that I'm literally always cold, which means I always need to be wrapped in a blanket when I'm home day or night, rain or shine, July or January. And as soon as I first got my hands on one of the famous Lola blankets, I was hooked. It's so soft, big, and cozy. I got the size large and it's the perfect couch blanket, but also an amazing extra layer for our bed during the winter months, which I'm so excited to use it for.

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16:46Sophie Ross:Just head to lolablankets.com and use code SNARK for 35 % off. After you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Wrap yourself in luxury with Lola Blankets. Let's get into America's Next Top Model. And one thing about - Oh my God, I cannot wait. A &TM is that through the lens of 2025, it is not aged well at all. Like not at all.

17:12Christy Noel:Is there a documentary about A &TM?

17:15Sophie Ross:So apparently there's one in the works.

17:17Christy Noel:Thank God. Because there is way too much material for there to not be a documentary.

17:21Sophie Ross:Yeah. And we just I remember in L.A., we started watching The Biggest Loser documentary, which I am still in the middle of. But yeah, some of these early 2000s reality shows, just craziness. So A &TM premiered on May 20th, 2003 with the quote unquote intention of giving aspiring models the chance to be a successful supermodel like Tyra. And the winner would receive a contract with the top tier modeling agency. It was always changing throughout cycles, which they called the season cycles for some reason.

17:56Christy Noel:Yeah. What's with that?

17:58Sophie Ross:I don't know. But sometimes it was Wilhelmina. Sometimes it was Ford. Sometimes it was IMG. And a contract with a cosmetic brand. Sometimes it was Revlon. Sometimes it was CoverGirl. A magazine spread, Marie Claire, CoverGirl Elle. It was always changing. And Janice Dickinson was famously one of the other judges on America's Next Top Model. And Janice Dickinson was just, she was something. She was something.

18:24Christy Noel:And her and Tyra did not really get along on that set. either.

18:28Sophie Ross:Yeah. Allegedly they didn't get along, but at the same time, at the time, Tyra was usually co-signing the just abusive, horrific stuff that Janice was saying also. And they were both just terrible to these women, which we will get into. But what's interesting is that winners have said that America's Next Top Model was not helpful to their careers at all. and in fact, it actually harmed them as aspiring models because it was not taken seriously in the modeling world. Of course, some successful models came from the show, including Winnie Harlow, which I didn't even realize that Winnie Harlow was on ANTM because I didn't watch like the later seasons.

19:09Christy Noel:No, same. That was a shock to me when I was like, wait, wait a minute. I don't even think she won, but she was just a contestant.

19:15Sophie Ross:Yeah, and so she, yeah, she's one of the few success stories. Takara Jones, Alison Harvard, Eva Marcel, from Real Houses of Atlanta, Leo Tipton, who's in Crazy Stupid Love. I don't know if you've seen that movie, but really not very many. And it's clear from watching the show that it was not actually created to kind of mold and uplift aspiring models. It's more of a vanity project for Tyra. She uses the show to spotlight herself. Case in point, in Cycle 2, when she dedicated an entire episode to her single Shake Your Body. She has a song? Yeah. Actually, it's not on Spotify, but it's on YouTube.

20:01Sophie Ross:And they shoot the music video in the episode.

20:04Christy Noel:Oh my God. And really quickly, I had to fact check myself. Winnie Harlow was eliminated like right before the finals. So she got pretty far. Yeah.

20:12Sophie Ross:Yeah. So she got far, but was not a winner. So on the podcast, let's get into it. Cycle 17 All-Star winner Lisa D 'Amato, who I remember Lisa from America's Next Top Model, said if you win the show, Tyra usually makes sure that you do not go past her. So you can be on top. You want to be on top? You want to be on top? You can be on top, but you will still have to be below Tyra. And a lot of the former contestants said that they didn't really spend time with Tyra. She didn't care to talk to them unless they were filming. She was not really the mentor type. Wow.

20:47Christy Noel:It's all for the cameras. Again, the vanity project that you just spoke of. Yeah.

20:51Sophie Ross:So of course, like I said, ANTM had a million controversies, which honestly, I know that it was a different time. It was the early 2000s. It's crazy that this was seen as socially acceptable even back in 2005. Some of the shit is crazy. I cannot believe it. so ANTM was all about touting that their priority was to be diverse she always claimed to uplift minorities but then often would demean them and ridicule them instead in cycle three there was a contestant named Yaya DaCosta the girls were tasked with essentially picking accessories for an outfit the judges told Yaya that she was trying too hard to prove her African-ness They called it overbearing and she defended herself.

21:46Sophie Ross:And then Tyra tells her that being defensive isn't attractive. During the famous makeover episodes, which there were lots of things that were really, really, really bad during these makeover episodes, she would often make black models change their natural hair. She made this contestant, Yaya, take her braids out so she could be more quote unquote versatile. versatile, she told Eva from cycle three to change her natural hair and they straightened and altered the natural texture of her curls.

22:17Christy Noel:When she says she made Yaya take her braids out so she can be more versatile, just means more like white leaning, more palatable to like white people, basically.

22:29Sophie Ross:Yeah, exactly. So one of the crazier things that ANTM did, and Christy and I, when we We were talking about this episode literally last week. We were like, no, the race swapping. Like, we cannot get over the race swapping.

22:43Christy Noel:They were in L.A. in the Airbnb and Sophie was like unpacking. She kind of just stopped and she goes, wait a minute. Do you remember when they race swapped?

22:52Sophie Ross:First of all, the voice Christy does for me is so unfair. No, you don't talk like that at all. Olivia pointed out that she makes me sound like Carl Radke. Like, it's so fucked.

23:04Christy Noel:it's it's so bad fucking crazy you guys that was so crazy oh my god so they did these race

23:12Sophie Ross:swapping photo shoots multiple times where they would change the girls races the most notable example of this is in cycle four it was a got milk photo shoot even in 2005 how was this okay in 2005 i don't understand and what was even crazier about this photo shoot of course was

23:34Christy Noel:the race swapping and like putting on a very fair-skinned white woman black facing her and giving her an afro wig they also had children on this set so if you were cosplaying as a black woman they would bring a black child into the set so you could pretend like they were your child it's it was the most bizarre thing I have ever seen it's actually insane and I also just for so

23:58Sophie Ross:many of these challenges, I feel like so many of them are to like demean. First of all, it's like, how does this help someone become a better model? How is this helpful? What is the point of this? A lot of it feels like it's just to demean these girls. So much of it is just so weird and embarrassing and just bizarre. And it's just genuinely, how is this helpful?

24:23Christy Noel:Yeah. And I I think there's an element, obviously, of wanting to make good TV. But what about putting blackface on your contestants makes for good TV? Like, what was she thinking? I don't understand.

24:36Sophie Ross:It's nuts. It's actually nuts. And again, this was 2005. But she does it again in 2009, which is also insane. Like, this was 2009. We are so far past blackface as a society at that point. We are in the 21st century. What are you doing? It's nuts. So yeah, again, in 2009, during Cycle 13, they do a biracial-themed photo shoot where each girl was given two ethnicities.

25:06Christy Noel:Two? So one wasn't enough. Let's have you cosplaying as a Black person and an Asian person. What?

25:10Sophie Ross:One wasn't enough. So in 2009, Tyra actually addressed the backlash to this on her talk show, saying, I in no way put my top models in blackface. Okay, but you did. I'm sorry to anybody that watched Top Model and was offended by the pictures. I truly apologize because that is not my intention. But again, she did put them in blackface. And in 2020, she gave more of an apology saying, been seeing the post about the insensitive insensitivity of some past ANTM moments. And I agree with you. Looking back, those there were some really off choices. Appreciate your honest feedback. And I'm sending so much love.

25:46Sophie Ross:Another thing that happened is a shoot where the models pose as the career they would want to have if they weren't models. Contessant Nena, who is from Nigeria originally, said she would want to be a chemist. They put her in an African safari type shoot, but with lab glasses. I feel like it doesn't make sense. No, like literally like there are no words, just completely speechless.

26:19Christy Noel:There's no context to this. There is no rhyme or reason to this. What does like your country of your nationality have anything to do with throwing on some loud glasses and putting on some beakers in this like cosplayed jungle?

26:33Sophie Ross:No, exactly.

26:35Christy Noel:And like each of the beakers is like purple, blue, right? Like it's so campy is not even the right word. It's just bizarre.

26:42Sophie Ross:It's actually insane. One of the more, this is crazy. And we were just talking about this also. One of the more infamous controversies that came to light in 2020 when all of the ANTM controversies were being discussed on social media was from cycle six when Tyra Forrest contested Danielle to close the gap between her teeth. Danielle liked her gap, felt it was part of her identity, but eventually agreed to make the gap smaller.

27:14Christy Noel:I was watching this. Oh, sorry. Keep going.

27:17Sophie Ross:No, I was just going to say, it's so crazy to do permanent dental work. Like, because Tyra told you to, and I understand they felt pressure. They felt pressure from Tyra saying, you are not going to be a successful model unless you do this permanent dental work.

27:32Christy Noel:You will not get jobs unless you do what I tell you, which is completely alter your face. And something that I was watching from this scene was the context of the shoot was they were doing a commercial for CoverGirl. And remember when they would do the photo shoots and then they would do the video shoots like towards the end of the season. And Danielle did a easy breezy beautiful cover girl video. And Tyra in her feedback she goes all I can see Danielle easy breezy beautiful and pointing to her gap. You will never be able to book a job if you have that gap. And she goes why did you deny our request to take you to the dentist to get it closed.

28:09Christy Noel:And Danielle was like this is like part of my identity. Like I really actually love the gap. I think it's beautiful. And Nigel was like, no one's going to think that. And Tyra was like, all the judges were like, vehemently agreeing. And so Danielle, poor Danielle calls her mom when she gets home. And she's like, Tyra wants us to wants me to close the gap in my teeth. What do you think I should do? And the mom was like, well, I guess if Tyra thinks that's going to get you more gigs, maybe she's right. Like she's been in the industry long enough. So Danielle Danielle begrudgingly agrees. And they take her to the dentist and they basically make the gap like less significant.

28:48Christy Noel:The gap was still there, but still Danielle was like, I don't feel like myself. I look at the mirror and I don't see myself. It's horrible. It's so fucked up.

28:57Sophie Ross:And then later in cycle 15, Tyra had contestant Chelsea widen her gap.

29:04Christy Noel:Right. And Danielle was a black contestant and Chelsea was a white contestant, which I don't see that necessarily called out here, but it's just interesting how Tyra's so vehement on close the gap as a black contestant, but with the white model, she's like, this is a beautiful feature of yours. It's just bizarre. Yeah.

29:19Sophie Ross:That's very important context. And it's so interesting how like now today in 2025, in the age of everyone having the piano key veneers, speaking of Carl Radke, anyone with a gap in their teeth is like immediately more interesting and beautiful. Think about Amy Lee Wood, Margaret Qualey.

29:39Christy Noel:Rachel Lindsay from The Bachelorette.

29:41Sophie Ross:Yeah, Rachel Lindsay, like having natural teeth and especially a gap is like a flex today.

29:47Christy Noel:It is. Absolutely. It is.

29:49Sophie Ross:So another thing about Tyra and the judges, especially Janice Dickinson, I feel like they would constantly discuss the girl's weight. And most seasons featured like exactly one quote unquote plus size model, even though looking back, it's like they weren't even plus size. They were so tiny. and the judges would relentlessly bring up their weight rather than their modeling ability. And they talked about plus size models like they were an exception rather than a sign that the modeling industry was evolving or could change.

30:21Christy Noel:It was always them casting in a group of like 15 women at the beginning, one plus size model. And she was the tokenized quote unquote, and I put quotes, fat person who is just a very normal body. Yeah.

30:36Sophie Ross:So one really fucked up example is Kenya Hill from Cycle 4. And she wasn't even a plus size model, but the judges continuously berated her for gaining weight. The producers would add in shots of her eating and other contestants making jokes about her weight. And in the seven deadly sins photo shoot, which I remember this vividly. They made her represent gluttony. Yeah.

31:02Christy Noel:And she was like in this coffin or whatever with like food strewn about her body. Oh, my God. It's sick. It's sick. It's just a humiliation ritual. Honestly, this entire show was a humiliation ritual.

31:14Sophie Ross:Yeah, it really was. And another thing is that the show pretends to care about eating disorders, but it's very clear that they don't. In Cycle 2, the girls discuss how one of the girls always goes to the bathroom during dinner, insinuating that she is throwing up after meals. And Tyra says, eating disorders are really sensitive to me. Keep an eye on her, but literally never does anything else about it. In cycle three, contestant Cassie talks about her eating disorder and how she's obsessed with her weight and being thinner. And the best thing they could have done would be to remove her from the competition, but they instead made this a storyline.

31:56Christy Noel:Exploitative. Yeah.

31:58Sophie Ross:So another thing ANTM did was put their contestants in dangerous situations often for these crazy photo shoots. And it like really begs the question, how does any of this help models become better models? Right. So one example is cycle seven. the models are forced to pose in a freezing cold pool. Karate English started to get hypothermia and was basically convulsing and had to stop the shoot. Tyra and Jay blamed her and told her that she has to communicate with them if she can't do something, which is interesting because Tyra has also eliminated girls for not completing a photo shooter challenge.

32:44Christy Noel:Right, and this is the typical example of a gaslighting thing when she's like, well, it's your fault that you got hypothermic because you didn't call for medical attention early on enough. So you caused that. And at the same time, Karate knowing damn well that if she were to have called medical for medical attention, she would have gotten eliminated. Like classic example, gaslighting.

33:05Sophie Ross:Classic. And Tyra would have been like, like if she had like waved the white flag and been like, I can't do this anymore. You know that Tyra would have thrown a fit and be like, Like early in my career, I had to pose in the Hudson River in January. Like something like that. Like she would make it about herself and how like Karatee was failing. This is actually so fucking insane. In cycle 22, they had deaf contestant Niall DeMarco pose in the pitch black. Other models got to use audio cues to know when to pose because again, it was you couldn't see anything. but Naya was deaf so he literally couldn't see or hear anything so like why like what is what is

33:51Christy Noel:the end game here and also isn't everything about photo shoots about good lighting like that's what makes a good photo is the light and capturing moments during the right time of the day what about a photo shoot in the pitch black does anything for like campaigns or marketing like the intent of being a model is to showcase whatever is on your body like this is just yeah

34:12Sophie Ross:Yeah, just to torment them.

34:13Christy Noel:Yes, this is a torture. This is a torture exercise.

34:16Sophie Ross:Amanda Swofford had retinitis pigmentosa, which caused her to be legally blind since the age of 14. So she was able to see a bit during the day, but was basically completely blind in the dark or at night. The show had the girls walk down a dark runway and did not allow Amanda to see or study the runway ahead of time in the light, setting her up for failure, basically.

34:41Christy Noel:It's a safety hazard. Like she could have actually sued, I feel like. That could have seriously injured her.

34:46Sophie Ross:I, yeah. The amount of lawsuits that ANTM deserved to get at this time is crazy. They would, you know, swing them from pendulums, make them runway walk while blindfolded, pose with like tarantulas and creatures. And it's just crazy how like none of this stuff. Do you think Kendall Jenner has ever had to do any of this stuff? Well, first of all, no, because she's an EPO baby. But also it's just like none of this stuff is helpful for a modern day supermodel.

35:15Christy Noel:Nothing about this screams this is giving you good experience for what what is to come in your career. Nothing about any of these challenges gives. Yeah. Good experience to these models or these aspiring models.

35:28Sophie Ross:Exactly. I've been a diehard TaskRabbit stan long before they were a sponsor. I cannot remember the last time I moved without enlisting a tasker, whether it was for assembling furniture, mounting a TV, hanging artwork, the list goes on. And it's not just during a move when your to-do list can feel like it's 10 pages long. Sometimes I really just need an extra hand for those little things I feel like I never end up getting around to myself. Like finally hanging the wedding photos I promised myself and Henry that I do for months now. Wherever you are, TaskRabbit is there to help. TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area for moving, furniture, assembly, home repairs, yard work, mounting, and more.

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39:50Sophie Ross:First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Croc store today. This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook. Another thing is that the show obviously did not give a fuck about their contestants' mental health.

40:34Sophie Ross:I mean, it's pretty obvious at this point. they would often use the girls' insecurities or traumatic life events for storylines or like photo shoot inspiration. In Cycle 10, they did a homeless-themed photo shoot knowing that two of the contestants, Fatima and Marvada, had struggled with homelessness in their lives.

40:53Christy Noel:And let's not forget really quickly that in the Tyra show, Tyra cosplayed as a homeless person as well.

41:02Sophie Ross:Oh, yes. Herself. Like this is probably around the same time. Yes. And that will be discussed just like insanity. In cycle four, contestant Kaylin finds out that one of her friends unexpectedly passed away. The next day they made the contestants pose in a coffin.

41:20Christy Noel:No, that is that likely did insurmountable damage to her brain at that point. Oh, That's not okay. That's traumatic as fuck.

41:30Sophie Ross:Traumatic as fuck. In cycle eight, contestant JL found that her friend overdosed. And then the next photo shoot was crime scene themed where the girls had to pose as dead bodies. So very normal stuff. Very normal. The models were also often subjected to harassment. And the show, nor Tyra, never intervened or did anything. In cycle four, Kenya Hill was touched inappropriately by a male model on set. She said that he was touching her and making grunting noises in her ear. She called him out and asked to stop the shoot. But J. Manuel was like, no, this is unprofessional. You have to continue. And the judges all blamed her.

42:10Christy Noel:She was being sexually assaulted on set. And they said continue to be professional.

42:16Sophie Ross:And that it was her fault.

42:17Christy Noel:You guys, this is literally like in the mid 2000s. This is happening. This was not that long ago. This is actually so traumatizing. I don't remember this. I have chills.

42:30Sophie Ross:No, insanity. In cycle seven, Jada was forced to kiss her male model partner, despite him telling her straight up that he doesn't like black girls. And the situation was understandably very upsetting for Jada. But in true ANTM fashion, Tyra and the judges have no sympathy.

42:48Christy Noel:I mean, yeah, not surprising, not surprising whatsoever.

42:53Sophie Ross:So the makeover episodes always so entertaining, but extremely fucking traumatic for these girls, obviously. So one contestant, Molly, who actually is Molly from Southern Charm. She was on cycle 16 of the show and she got a weave and she told Tyra that she was literally getting a rash. First of all, the weave looks insane.

43:19Christy Noel:No, it literally looks like Shirley Temple on steroids. That's the best way I can describe it. Like Shirley Temple's little curls, but like six inches longer.

43:30Sophie Ross:It's crazy. Like it's literally, yeah, it's just like ringlets. It's crazy. She said that she was getting a rash. She was in pain and Tyra was like, I do not care. You have to suck it up. They also didn't like choose hairstyles that would compliment the girls or be better than the hair that they started the competition with. A lot of it was just for like shock value or for a big reaction. Yeah. Basically, if you were the classic, like pretty girl, they're chopping off your hair.

43:58Christy Noel:Naturally. I mean, that's. Yeah.

44:01Sophie Ross:And they were always like chopping off their hair and like bleaching it, giving like a girl. If I were an A &T, like if I got discovered at the mall, like I thought I would growing up and I was on A &T, Yeah, they would. And if you don't know what I look like, you guys, you don't watch on video or follow us. I have long brown hair. They would chop off my hair and give me a bleach blonde pixie cut. Tyra would say the inspiration was Mia Farrow and Rosemary's baby. Yeah. And then they would eliminate me the next episode.

44:31Christy Noel:Right, right. So I'm stuck with that fuck ass hair. Yeah, they were modifying people's teeth, modifying people's hair. Like these are things that really, once you alter your hair like that, it often just, it'll never be the same. This is horrific.

44:45Sophie Ross:Hair does grow back, but also, yeah, bleaching hair is really, really, really bad for your hair. Right. Obviously, the either widening or fixing the gap in someone's teeth is permanent.

44:57Christy Noel:Right.

44:58Sophie Ross:So who remembers, we were all rooting for you.

45:02Christy Noel:I mean, this is the iconic scene that has made every single airwave on every single platform.

45:06Sophie Ross:So the context of this was in cycle four, contestant Tiffany was laughing nervously at some of the critiques and not crying or bawling her eyes out when she was eliminated. Like, just let her live. Like, I think that Tyra expected everyone to take this so fucking seriously, obviously. And so Tyra was harsh and it just came out of nowhere. And this is the famous, I was rooting for you. We were all rooting for you. How dare you? When my mama yells at me like this, it's because she cares. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And Tiffany has since said that she felt absolutely humiliated by Tyra. And she was also really confused because they had talked privately.

45:50Sophie Ross:And Tyra was way more understanding and calm. It was almost like Tyra wanted this moment, which she got a moment. It's obviously just an iconic moment from the show. In Cycle 17 All-Stars, Angela Preston was named the winner at first. and Angela had been up front with producers about her previous work as an escort. But after she won, they stripped her of her winner title, stating that her being an escort was a violation of their terms. So the original version of the finale never aired and they refilmed with Lisa D 'Amato being crowned the winner instead.

46:26Christy Noel:Oh my God. So if you're a sex worker, you're out. Yep.

46:31Sophie Ross:And something that's really interesting, Lisa D 'Amato on that podcast that she went on. She said that the ANTM confidentiality agreement states you can't talk about production for 10 years, which is also the statute of limitations to report abuse in the workplace. And she says that this is intentional and they know what they're doing. Yeah. So other just miscellaneous things about America's Next Top Model, there are those lines that Tyra always says in the most dramatic way. Both of you stand before me for similar reasons. Or both of you stand before me for different reasons. You both have what the other one needs.

47:12Christy Noel:Yes. Oh, my God. You both have. See, that was really good.

47:17Sophie Ross:Yeah, yeah. The girl with all of the potential in the world. I love we were we were laughing at this before we started recording beautiful girl but is she a model and she would kind of like go from like a high octave to like a whisper yeah yeah yeah right and she would always say like and that makes the judges worried this one is i'm just like reading from a list it's so funny this was like a reddit thread Some weeks you take beautiful photos and others you fall flat. You're unpredictable.

47:55Christy Noel:God forbid, you know, it's a bad day. Like, and I can't take a bad, like what?

48:00Sophie Ross:What about this? The camera loves you, but you don't love the camera. But you don't love the camera.

48:10Christy Noel:Going through your film. It was a whole lot of this. And then she would like, yeah, yeah, yeah. that she would like contort her body and like her face in every which way yeah yeah yeah yeah these things are cycled throughout cycle throughout every cycle every single contestant yep and of

48:28Sophie Ross:course smize to smile with your eyes yes smile honestly like the word smize has had such lasting like i feel like people still are like okay remember to smize when you're like like taking a photo. Smize. Yeah. Honestly, like she ate that one thing.

48:46Christy Noel:Agreed.

48:47Sophie Ross:And like we said, an ANTM doc is coming to Netflix at some point, thankfully. And Tyra has actually agreed to do a sit down interview, which I think is the best thing that she could do.

48:59Christy Noel:Agreed. Because if she does it without her volition, they can create the narrative in every which way.

49:04Sophie Ross:Yeah. And for her to admit that in the lens of 2025, that all of this stuff was extremely fucked up and she feels bad about it is just the best thing she can do because there is no defense for any of this shit. And let's move on to the Tyra show, your favorite show growing up. Chrissy, what are your memories about the Tyra show?

49:22Christy Noel:I remember she had an episode of the homeless. You know, she went to Skid Row in Los Angeles and cosplayed as a homeless person. And I remember she had like$5 and she was like, this is what I went to the convenience store to get to eat all day. And she slept outside. and my sister and I were talking about it and my sister was like I remember that episode being very impactful for me I'm like dude low-key me too like even though it was super problematic I remember being like having more empathy for what homeless people have to go through I also remember another episode where she had people talk about their names and like the stereotypes with their names So she had like an Ashley and like Lakeisha and had people assume what that person looked like based on their name.

50:09Christy Noel:I'm trying to think of other things, but I just remember it being like kind of like the Jerry Springer show, but less insane. And it was so good. Yeah.

50:19Sophie Ross:Basically, yeah. So Tyra, like you said, performed a quote unquote social experiment where she pretended to be homeless for a day. She claims to like she was like, I am going to spend the night on Skid Row like the entire night disguising herself in like tattered clothing and begging for money on the street. She was there for an hour with a camera crew. It came out.

50:42Christy Noel:Wow.

50:42Sophie Ross:This was obviously poorly received. People accused Tyra of being exploitative and performative, arguing that spending one night cosplaying as a homeless person does not reflect the true hardship of homelessness. It's good to hear that for you and your sister, it actually was impactful for you.

50:58Christy Noel:Yeah.

50:58Sophie Ross:But it was not well-received at the time at all, understandably. And this is something that I remember vividly is when Tyra wore a fat suit to experience life as a 350-pound person.

51:10Christy Noel:What?

51:11Sophie Ross:Yeah. So she wore a fat suit for an entire day and people were staring and laughing in her face at her. She says that she was appalled by how she was treated. She went shopping, rode the bus, wearing the suit. She went on three blind dates and she would ask her date what his parents would think if he brought her home. And he said, they'll be like, what's wrong with you? And when Tyra revealed that she wasn't 350 pounds, he was into her and admitted he would not have gone out with her again if she was actually that big. It's like, duh. Like, you're a supermodel under your fat suit. What are you trying to prove exactly?

51:48Sophie Ross:Right. And after 15 hours in the fat suit, she obviously had the luxury of taking off her costume and returning to that supermodel figure. But she says she hopes people will learn from the poor treatment she endured. And the issue with this, this also wasn't well-received. And the issue with this is that she thinks she's like spreading awareness or doing something good, but it's extremely, extremely tone deaf. And she doesn't realize that she didn't actually experience life as a 350 pound person.

52:18Christy Noel:Right. it's like with the homeless thing. You were there for an hour. You don't understand what it's like living in a big body or. Yeah. Yeah.

52:25Sophie Ross:You were cosplaying. One episode of the Tyra show, she had on Cycle 17 winner who we've previously mentioned, Lisa D 'Amato on her talk show. And production wanted to focus on Lisa's traumatic childhood. But Lisa said the only way she would go on the show is if they didn't talk about that. And they instead focused on fashion and her modeling career. and once the cameras started rolling, they said on cycle five, Lisa was known as a wild child, but what you didn't know is that she was molested when she was younger. Lisa was completely caught off guard and she was just completely, completely devastated, went into a rage on set and was eventually locked in a closet by a member of production, according to a Reddit user, because she was so upset by that introduction.

53:16Christy Noel:Yeah, I mean, reasonably so. That's a very private matter that matter that most don't even talk to with their close friends, let alone the entire world that's watching. That's like such a violation of privacy.

53:28Sophie Ross:Crazy. And she had explicitly said that she didn't want to talk about that. She wanted to focus on her modeling career instead. It's just so fucked up. Do you miss the Tyra show?

53:37Christy Noel:I mean, I was obviously like young and 16 when I was watching this. So

53:41Sophie Ross:It's crazy. It's been, I can't believe it's been 15 years because it ended in 2010. RIP the Tyra show. Tyra outside of her work on television has a long list of failed business ventures, including Tyra beauty. And it was a beauty brand or independent sellers sold makeup similar to Avon or Mary Kay. So it was, it was an MLM. It was literally an MLM. Yeah.

54:07Christy Noel:I mean, she probably couldn't get any. Well, I wonder when it started, but I am curious. I feel like maybe in the mid 2000s, she would have done well with like a makeup brand. But now I feel like it doesn't obviously make so much sense to me that it wasn't successful.

54:22Sophie Ross:Oh, my God. I'm surprised you've never tried it.

54:25Christy Noel:I know. Something about me. I love a celebrity brand.

54:30Sophie Ross:I know. I know. That's true. Another one of her ventures was the Smize app, and it was a mobile app. It was kind of like the original Face app. It was meant to enhance Smizing, but apparently it made people look like aliens. So that was a flop. She also published a YA novel called Model Land in 2011, and the book wasn't received well. There also was like an amusement park concept or like a Model Land attraction inside the Santa Monica Mall. none of it ever came to fruition. So overall, when we think about Tyra's legacy today in 2025, like we said, she is just undeniably a polarizing person. Although she is like widely recognized as kind of this, like we said, like she, she really broke barriers.

55:23Sophie Ross:She was a trailblazer in the modeling industry. And she also, she was about championing diversity on America's Next Top Model by featuring contestants of so many different races, backgrounds, members of the LGBTQ community, notably a transgender woman as early as 2008, long before such representation was common on mainstream television. So it's like credit where it's due. I think that that's why her legacy is so confusing. It's like she did all of this fucked up shit, but also she was a trailblazer in a lot of ways.

56:00Christy Noel:Yeah. I think one thing to note about the LGBTQIA reward that she received from some award, but she received a reward for this for being inclusive. But interestingly enough, there was a contestant on one of the cycles of ANTM who was identified as queer. and she basically gave feedback to this contestant, like your queerness is too much. And then after the fact received this award. So people were like, well, what is it then? You're an inclusive queen or you shame people because they're too queer for you, right? So it's like, it just calls into question, like she always kind of flips on either side.

56:34Christy Noel:And it's like, who really, what path are you though? What are your true beliefs?

56:38Sophie Ross:Exactly, and that's why, again, her legacy is so complicated because, you know, you look at the race swapping, the weight shaming, the emotional manipulation, the shaming people for being too queer or too African, obviously widely condemned in retrospect. And former contestants have since come out and said that they were kind of abused by the show. And it was just a horrible, horrible environment for them. And there are those few that defend her intent to expose the realities of the modeling industry and how tough it can be and how you will get weight shamed as a model. Others definitely argue that the show often crossed ethical lines and that Tyra as the face of the show and the producer of the show bears a lot of the responsibility.

57:30Yeah.

57:31Christy Noel:Yeah, she is the face. She is the name. And it's crazy because I think the last time I've seen Tyra is one, on an episode of the Kardashians on Hulu when I used to watch it when Skims did that campaign with Heidi Klum, Tyra. Do you remember that? They were all modeling like bras and it was like the most iconic models. Yeah, so Tyra was included in that campaign. And then another thing was, I keep hearing rumblings online about a life-size too, which I don't believe was touched on in this, in our notes, but Tyra Banks' movie with Lindsay Lohan, Life Size was one of my favorite movies. And I think they were thinking about developing like a part two, a sequel to it.

58:11Christy Noel:Oh my God.

58:12Sophie Ross:Thank you for bringing that up because Life Size was an amazing movie and that came out in, let me look.

58:18Christy Noel:2004?

58:19Sophie Ross:2000. Oh my God. That was so, so that was pre-ANTM that she did Life Size, which is crazy. It's great.

58:25Christy Noel:No matter where she goes, dress her up from her head to her toes.

58:32Sophie Ross:Wait, there is a Life Size 2 already.

58:35Christy Noel:Oh.

58:36Sophie Ross:Wait. Oh my God. This is crazy. No one watched it. Life Size 2, A Christmas Eve, premiered on December 2nd, 2018 on Freeform.

58:43Christy Noel:Wait, what?

58:44Sophie Ross:With Banks reprising her role.

58:46Christy Noel:Was Lindsay Lohan?

58:48Sophie Ross:No, it doesn't say Lindsay Lohan reprised her role. Just Tyra.

58:53Christy Noel:Oh, you're right. You're right. It wasn't Tyra. Yeah. I mean, Lindsay was -

58:55Sophie Ross:And in 2020, they announced that another sequel was in the works. So, like, we'll see when that happens. But yes. Oh, my God. Thank you for mentioning Life Size. That was a freaking iconic movie. and she really was like literally like a real life Barbie.

59:10Christy Noel:That was such a funny movie. I remember Francia Reza from who Selena Gomez is kidney donor and was on The Secret Life of the American Teenager. Yes. It was in my size two. Oh my God, yes. I just remember that one scene where she's at the office and she's just typing a bunch of gibberish. Do you know that scene? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just gibberish.

59:29Sophie Ross:She like is just pretending to work because she like doesn't know what to do.

59:32Christy Noel:Yeah, in her like pink pants suit. Oh my God.

59:34Sophie Ross:An iconic movie. life-size movie streaming.

59:38Christy Noel:That's another where I can watch it. We got to do a snarkbait Patreon live watch of that movie. That would be so fun.

59:45Sophie Ross:Oh, my God, it would be. Okay, it's not streaming anywhere, but it's available for purchase on Amazon, it looks like.

59:52Christy Noel:All right, well. That's

59:54Sophie Ross:annoying. It's on Disney Plus. Like, it's a Disney movie.

59:57Christy Noel:Yeah. I feel like it was always on Disney channel.

1:00:00Sophie Ross:That's really disappointing, but maybe I will, you know, splurge, splurge on it. So yeah, that about covers Vidal. What are your closing thoughts as someone who you clearly used to be a major, major fan?

1:00:15Christy Noel:Yeah, it's interesting looking back on all these moments as an adult and really realizing at that point in my life, I didn't find any of these things controversial. One, because I was very young and two, because we weren't having these conversations that we're having two decades later. So it's wild that at one point we all just saw these challenges and these conversations on her talk show was very normal when in fact they were very abnormal and very bizarre. But it's interesting that people are, you know, especially with TikTok and all these edits of Tyra, you type in Tyra Banks on TikTok and you'll see all these controversies, how we just really found it to be normal.

1:00:52Christy Noel:It's kind of concerning, right? Yeah. Yeah.

1:00:55Sophie Ross:It is crazy to think about how we just watched it and we're like, yeah, that's normal. Race swapping. That's a very, yeah, sure. Why not?

1:01:03Christy Noel:Right. Jumping on the bus as a 350 pound woman in a fat suit. You know, it's wild that we all thought this was okay. But I'm glad we're having the conversation about it now. And I'm definitely looking forward to this Netflix documentary because I think it's one thing to hear about it when we're talking about this, but to actually see it will paint a very different story for everyone. So I'm excited for that to drop and we should definitely watch it on Patreon as well.

1:01:27Sophie Ross:Yes, I am definitely excited for that one. Okay. Yeah. And speaking of Patreon, you guys, if you want more, we drop bonus episodes every single week on patreon.com slash snarkbaitpod. If you want more from us, you can follow us on Instagram at snarkbaitpod. I am at soph underscore Ross. Christy is Christy Noel underscore underscore. Thank you to Jordan, our producer, Rachel, our social manager, and Olivia, our researcher. And thank you, Baby Snarks, for listening. We'll see you next time. See you next time. Bye. Bye.

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