What’s the Snark on Chris Harrison?

27:09Yeah, and the new rom-com that she's in with Callum Turner is about the purge, but you're not allowed to have premarital sex. Only for one night a year, you can have premarital sex. Oh, that's so weird. Okay, sorry. That was a really long-winded... But I think that the tactics that the Bachelor franchise made were like warfare for some of these. They would manipulate. And that show is so fascinating. It was written, created by a former Babysir. And they would manipulate the contestants so much and the lead so much and just, yeah. Yeah, they would ask you before you were sent home, well, tell me about the time that your heart was broken and how does it compare to this?

27:47They would make you like relive traumatic moments and I'm just scratching the surface. But I think Mike Fleiss, he's had his whole slew of scandals, but he was kind of running the show despite us thinking that Chris Harrison, despite being the face. Yeah, he played some strings and he did have executive production credit, but he wasn't responsible for overall decision making. You know what's funny is that on our It Ends With Us episode, we talked about how executive producer actually means less than producer title. A producer actually has power and like pulls strings on a show and executive producer is kind of just in title alone.

28:22Like Robert Taylor and Frankie Paul was like, I'm an executive producer of Secret Lives of Mormon Lives. Like it's kind of like a vanity thing. Sorry. It is. Right. You have a seat at the table when it comes to planning the season, but not necessarily authority over decision making. Right. When I went to a taping of After the Final Rose, I, first of all, just a little bit of behind the scenes of what it is. So you park at the Paramount studio lot. You're shipped through like a little tram to this warehouse and it's completely empty. You're sitting in there for hours because they're prepping the studio.

28:51You're given water, Chipotle, but basically like it's so boring. I would say we were waiting for three hours. Finally, after a long winded wait in this empty warehouse, you get like put into a studio that's like steps away from this warehouse. And then again, you're waiting in the studio for another two hours until they begin taping. It's just a whole day of waiting. But I remember just watching Chris Harrison when the lights came on and he is such a professional. Like I remember thinking this man makes it look so easy, but I can tell like it's hard work. You're sitting there for like long, long hours.

29:22You're having to read from a teleprompter. You're having to move your hands. You're having to be engaged with the audience. You're having to care about what the contestants are going through, despite, you know, like after a long day, you're like, the least I could care about is what's happening with Dean and Kalen. But, you know, he's immersed. He was so on it. And I remember being like, wow, this guy is such a goddamn professional. He would kind of like mumble words when the camera stopped rolling. He'd be like, oh, my God, OK, like moving his hands. And then the second they're like, three, two, one, action.

29:47Welcome back. My name's Chris Harrison. Like, I was so impressed. It was kind of cool to see the behind the scenes. Why was he mumbling? He was trying to recite like his lines before he would go live. But he was like, you know, it was interesting. It's like the opposite of Andy Cohen on Watch What Happens Live, where he's like texting and then he's like, hey, everybody. Wait, that's actually such a good point. Because Andy Cohen, I think he didn't. I think it was very different from how Andy Cohen does operate. Chris felt more of like a perfectionist. And he wanted to make sure like he wouldn't have to repeat the line again.

30:16And if he did, he would do it differently. Like the tone would change. His hand movements would change. And after the final rose wasn't live. It was not life. Correct. Yeah, they would have to retape certain things over and over again. So let's talk about the Bachelor scandal and the breakdown. So you have to remember, this was a post-Black Lives Matter reality reckoning, a racial reckoning happening in our nation. And Matt James is named the franchise's first Black Bachelor in its 25 season history. And you have to remember, Rachel Lindsay had already been the Bachelorette. So it's not like they've never had a black lead, but this was the first time a black man was the lead.

30:53And he was heavily promoted post-2020. And if you guys are unfamiliar with the franchise, Matt James was never a contestant. Usually, I think up until this point, they would recycle a former contestant and make them the lead. It was typically a fan favorite. Matt James, however, was Tyler Cameron, who was on Hannah Brown's season. And Tyler Cameron was a huge fan favorite, was super famous after the show, dated Gigi Hadid. but everyone was following Tyler Cameron via Instagram and they saw this cute friend of his that he would run with exercise with go out to eat with and they're like who's Matt James like we're kind of intrigued and I remember when he when Matt was announced as the bachelor lead I was like stoked I was like we have no preconceived notions about this guy he's handsome he's tall and it was kind of clear though that the bachelor nation was scrambling to kind of put a bandit on a bullet wound.

31:44They were like, oh my God, we've always been accused of being super like a white dominated space. Our viewership, I think primarily is Christian right-leaning women. And we need to kind of alter that perception about our show. And here's Matt James, who is kind of a shoo-in. What were your thoughts when he was named the Bachelor lead? I didn't finish Hannah Brown's season. This is when I started to taper off from watching the Bachelor franchise. So I didn't understand like the Tyler Cameron hype. I didn't follow Tyler Cameron. So I didn't know who Matt James was. I was just like, oh, he's cute.

32:20Like, it's good that, you know, this is finally happening, getting a Black Bachelor lead because, you know, 25 seasons is a really long time to not have one, obviously. But yeah, I did not know who he was. And I also thought it was interesting that he wasn't, like you said, pulled from the pool of contestants from the last Bachelorette season, which is usually the case. Right. And I think one thing that I was really excited about with Matt James was thinking, okay, they're going to pull like a fresh face. He doesn't really know how this show operates. He's offering a very different perspective being a Black man in America, post-2020 racial reckoning.

32:53Like I was excited. And I remember when the first episode aired, because I did watch every single season up until this season. After the first episode, I was like, I can't do this. Because I remember how focused he was on God and whether or not that was just part of the edit and he said it very flippantly. I remember thinking, okay, here they are like platforming a black man, which is amazing. But now they're trying to like water it down by making sure everyone knows he's a black man, but he's also like very faith based and he's very Christian. He's very Christian. Yeah. Yeah. And it was also like they were making sure they wanted to play it safe on both sides.

33:24That is such a good point. And that's also like my issue with the franchise is that it's so religious and so traditional. and yes it just you realize it more and more over the years as you watch you're like oh my god this is like such a it's a it's a christian show it's literally a christian dating show it is i think when we think of christian dating apps like this is the show for like a christian dating app like it's the show for christian yeah i don't know it just feels very so many leads are like let's pray together like i feel like that happens now like once a season let's pray together maybe matt james was like the first, honestly.

34:00So that's why I felt turned off by it. And not that I am like atheist. I'm just, I'm more spiritual. I didn't grow up going to church and I have no shade against anyone who practices religion. Like, I love that for you. I think just for me, it felt very contrived. I remember when Matt James first entered the room, he said, hello, everyone. My name is Matt James. I'm your bachelor. And you know, the women go, woo! And he goes, let's first lead with a prayer. And he made everyone pray with him. And I thought that was a little odd, just knowing who are you to assume that everyone here practices religion or they believe in God.

34:32I just felt like it was very presumptuous. And again, I don't think that's any shade on Matt. I just felt like the franchise specifically put the edit of that in to make sure that we knew he was a Christian man. Yes. And it almost feels like in a way when you're watching it, it feels like propaganda almost like it's being like pushed on us. 100%. And you're right. I think that this people being Christian, the person I can think of are or like Sean Lowe specifically. And listen, I love me some Sean Lowe. That was one of my favorite seasons. I think he's had a little bit of problematic stuff recently, but his season was one of my favorites.

35:05He really pushed like that Christian narrative as well. And I just remember feeling like this feels a little odd given where we're at in our nation right now. Yeah. And again, there's nothing wrong with, you know, if that's what you are or what you are into watching. Totally. But for you, you're not a super religious Christian. I'm not Christian at all. Like, I just don't, like, I'm just like, okay, like, this feels a little weird. Yeah, I just couldn't really identify with it. Yeah, yeah, I can't relate to it, yeah. Right. And so in any case, I'm not even going to go over Matt James' season because, frankly, I did not watch it.

35:36And I feel like it was kind of a flop. And this is really when the franchise started to take a turn. Like, for me, if I stop watching the franchise or the show, that's saying something. I remember, I actually remember I said I didn't finish Hannah Brown's season because I was starting to taper off. But I did watch, was it Hannah? Yeah, it was Hannah Brown's season before that. And I watched all of Matt James' season. And I did enjoy it for the most part, I remember. Yeah. So what did you think of Rachel Kirkconnell? Because that's who we're going to get into. Because she was so part of this scandal.

36:03So she, from the very beginning, it's so funny. Like, I feel like there is, like, some data out there about how if you get the first impression, Rose, you are going to be the F1. Like, that happens so often. And I'm, like, pretty sure she got the first impression, Rose. It was very clear that she was, like, the runaway. Like, he was obsessed with her right off the bat. And I just remember like thinking that she seemed really beautiful and seemed cute and sweet. Like I nothing about her jumped out to me as like a red flag or anything. Yeah. I think she felt relatable to the audience. She was cool.

36:37I remember thinking she was I remember specifically, though, watching episode one. And when he did the prayer, she started to cry. And I was like, oh, like, OK, this is going to be the season. Yeah. I don't know. It just felt so performative produced and pushed on us. And again, I have no shade against people that are Christian or practice religion. Like my best friend is very religious, very Christian. But I don't know. It just felt a little bit disingenuous to me for some reason. But I don't think that way about Rachel Kirkconnell today. I think she seems like a normal cool girl. But the whole scandal about Chris Harrison starts with Rachel Kirkconnell after she won Matt James season.

37:11So in late Jan, early Feb 2021, photos surface of winner Rachel Kirkconnell at a 2018 antebellum Old South themed Kappa Alpha fraternity formal, which apparently is incredibly common at Southern schools. So I was talking to a friend of mine who grew up in South Carolina. He went to University of South Carolina and he told me, and I'm not standing up for Rachel Crocato at all. I'm just telling you what is common or what he told me was common. He said that these parties were so commonplace. It was just like something like CEOs and office hoes or like a toga party. He told me that it was super, super normal.

37:46And those of you that went to Southern schools, please tell me, because this guy was also a little problematic and I'm not friends with him anymore. He told me that like Confederate flags would be in dorm rooms and people wouldn't think of it any other way. I mean, I guess it tracks with the U.S. South, but like, that's like so bizarre to me. I agree. Please tell me, Baby Snarks, if you grew up in the South or if you went to school in the South, is this common? Because this is one person's perspective and it's really, I don't know many people that went to school in the South. The Confederate flag thing is obviously problematic and also just like pathetic.

38:17It's like you lost. You lost a long time ago, almost 200 years ago. Like move on. Like why are you bringing attention to the fact that you guys were losers? Completely. And of course, Matt James being a black man, but he's actually biracial. His mom is white. His father is black. His mom is so sweet. I remember. Yes, she seems really sweet. The whole season was centered on racial discourse and like how Matt James didn't have a relationship with his father. And I do recall the episode when Matt James' father came in and people felt like it was very exploitative. They're like, here you guys are forcing Matt to talk with his father who he's estranged from.

38:52And his father is a black man. You guys are centering the fact on his father was an absent father, which is a racial stereotype on black men, how they don't grow up with fathers. It just felt very uncomfortable. And I feel like people in the audience were not pleased with this. They're like, regardless of whether you guys are trying to show a sweet, loving moment between father and son, we don't want to see this. It's too close to home. This is a private matter that should be taken offline. What did you think of this when you watched this? I honestly don't remember that. Like, it's been a couple years now, obviously.

39:20I don't remember this particular discourse or this even happening. But I do think it's funny how, like, they were trotting out. Like you said, it felt exploitative after years of The Bachelor franchise, not having a black lead, having black contestants being the first ones that were cut always. Yep, always. It just, and now you want to try to trot out, you know, two black men to, you know, exploit them. Like it feels exploitative, you're right. Agreed. And people were very, I think, reasonably upset at this. And I think coupled with, again, where we were at the time, 2021, wounds were very fresh.

39:58And I'm not saying it was an unreasonable response by the audience. I remember watching just the clip and being like, I don't want to see this. Yeah, it's compelling. But is it for my eyes? No, this should be kept like a family matter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So once these antebellum photos surfaced of Rachel Crickano, Rachel Lindsay, she was a host on, I think it was Extra. Yeah. She hosts a remote interview with Chris Harrison to talk about this scandal. with Rachel Kirkconnell. And Harrison, at the time of the interview, speaks over Rachel Lindsay. Chris Harrison keeps asking the audience for a little grace, a little understanding, a little compassion for Rachel Kirkconnell.

40:36And Rachel Lindsay confirms that there was no publicist that accompanied Chris during this interview. He was just by himself in his home, like hunkering down. And Rachel Lindsay was trying to make him understand on air how important this thing was for her as a black woman and how her experience as a black woman, like how she felt seeing these photos of Rachel Lindsay. And Chris Harrison, quite honestly, was not willing to hear it. And Chris Harrison specifically said, I saw a picture of her at a sorority party five years ago, which, by the way, it was not five years ago, it was three years ago.

41:05Yeah, I was going to say, he says 2018 and 2021. That's three year difference. Right. And he's just trying to like downplay it even more by saying, oh, it was five years ago. You know, she was a kid. No, it was three. He's rounding up. Boom. Right. And that's it. Like, boom. Well, Rachel, is it a good look in 2018? Or is it not a good look in 2021? Because there's a big difference. Me neither. It's not a good look for either of you. And that's exactly what Rachel Lindsay responded. She goes, it's not a good look ever. She's celebrating the old self. And Chris Harrison responds, you're 100 % right in 2021.

41:32That's not the case in 2018. And again, I'm not defending Rachel. I just know that, I don't know, 50 million people did that in 2018. That was the type of party that a lot of people went to. And again, I'm not defending it. I didn't attend it. The woke police is out there. And this poor girl, Rachel Kirkconnell, who has just been thrown to the lines. I don't know how you are equipped when you have never done this before to be woke enough, to be eloquent enough, to be ready to handle this. And he said, Rachel Kirkconnell needs a little bit of time. And we will give her that time to speak. Okay, first of all, 50 million people.

42:03Like, where did you get that number from? Also, he's like, in 2018, this was so normal three years ago. The only time this was normal was in 1846 or whatever fucking year. Like, I'm sorry, what? Right? Yes. And I think it was really difficult to watch considering Rachel Lindsay, she reflected on the interview and she said, listen, as a black woman, I wanted to say so much, but I don't want to be labeled as angry or divisive or rude. So I had to basically sit there and take it from Chris Harrison. And this is someone that she considered to be a friend and kind of like a mentor. Or, you know, she was the lead at one point a couple of years back.

42:35And she's like, here's kind of like my boss coming at me saying that the experience that everyone is having in response to Rachel Krakow's antebellum photos is disproportionate. And Rachel Lindsay is on the other side of it saying, I'm a black woman. I think I'm the only one who can kind of educate you on how the response should be. Yes. It's like and she also is a black woman. So she's like, I need to stay composed or else people are going to label me as an angry black woman. And it's like, what a painful chapter in U.S. history, and especially for black Americans, to think about slavery and the 1800s.

43:06And you have people partying and like celebrating that. It would be like if there was like a 1940s like Germany party, themed party. Yeah, I think that's a really good analogy. Like, I think that's a perfect analogy. And I think we look at, we think about that, like a Germany-themed, like, Nazi-type party and think that sounds just disgraceful. But it's the same thing. It's repression amongst a certain group of people for their race, ethnicity, religion, what have you. And, again, it's really rough for me to hear Chris Harris, because I did have to rewatch this clip, obviously, for this episode.

43:40It was very aggressive, his tone, and it was very like, listen, listen, Rachel Lindsay. Just listen for a second. The woke mob shouldn't be coming after Rachel Kirkconnell. And as a white man who is incredibly privileged, who is incredibly wealthy, he can't even for a moment begin to understand what it's like to walk in someone like Rachel Lindsay's shoes. And she's politely trying to educate you, Chris Harrison, on why it is problematic, but you're not even giving her an opportunity or the floor to speak. And Chris Harrison claims, listen, the audience shouldn't be a judge, a jury and the executioner.

44:08And it's not right for people to be tearing Rachel Lindsay, excuse me, Rachel Kirkconnell down online. And he's like, people are looking into Rachel Kirkconnell's parents voting record. And OK, listen, Chris Harrison, I agree with you. I don't think, I think the response to Rachel Craconnell was disproportionate. I don't think, I want to give her the benefit of the doubt and say that she didn't know any better and she was participating in this type of party that she wasn't aware of like the social implications. And I think we as kind of people born in the 90s, we would do like pilgrims and Indians and things like that.

44:39Things that we didn't understand the racial implications or like what that means as a society. I don't think it's right for people to go into her parents' voting records or tear her down. But I think it is important for you to allow Rachel Lindsay, a black woman, the floor to educate us on why it is wrong. And for Rachel Kirkconnell to learn why this was wrong. Again, she was a college student doing like participating in a college party, which is a disgusting tradition and theme for a party. Absolutely disgusting. But, yeah, she needs to learn why this is wrong because she clearly didn't know.

45:11And, you know, I mean, I don't know. I'm assuming that she didn't know. And this is the perfect opportunity to kind of have a learning moment for not only her, but like everyone. Agreed. Agreed. And I think just because it's a quote unquote normal themed party to attend in 2018, and I'm putting this in quotes, it doesn't make it right. And I think it was a good opportunity for Rachel Lindsay to educate the audience that was listening to this interview as well as Rachel Crackle. But Chris Harrison didn't even allow her that space. So I definitely feel for Rachel Crackle. I also feel for Matt James, who also was like kind of collateral damage in all this.

45:43Like he was put into a position where he as a black fan should have a certain response, but he also really cares and loves for Rachel Croconnell. I think it was a huge mess. And I think we were as a society weren't ready to have this difficult conversation at this moment in time. And Chris Harrison completely shit the bed. Completely, completely. And yeah, you're so right. Like Matt James is put in this, you know, unwinnable position. Right. And in the After the Final Rose episode, he broke up with Rachel Croconnell in response to these photos. And he was like, listen, like, you don't understand, Rachel, like what it's like to be a black man in America.

46:16And I don't feel comfortable with these photos. And she was very apologetic, obviously. But they broke up and later got back together four weeks later. So he couldn't have been that mad at her. That's a whole other thing. But after this interview with Rachel Lindsay, there were immediately calls online for Harrison's firing, online petitions for his firing on change.org. And on Rachel Lindsay's podcast in February, Rachel Lindsay said that Harrison had no problems with the interview and, in fact, texted her saying that he, quote unquote, appreciated their conversation. And the network and studio panicked at this public response to Chris Harrison, kind of accosting Rachel Lindsay on air, and they went into quick damage control.

46:55And in the immediate days following his interview, Chris Harrison spoke to bigwigs within the franchise, probably Mike Fleiss, who took an open approach. And Chris Harrison was never told that he'd be fired from his longtime position. In fact, any consideration of him being terminated was not even addressed in the initial conversations he was having with the network. Instead, the talks were revolving around him apologizing, educating himself on race issues and making proper amends to those that he hurt within the franchise and the audience. And in February, February 10th, 2021, Chris Harrison posts a black and white statement onto Instagram saying that he was wrong to speak into a matter that perpetuates racism.

47:33And he said, quote, While I do not speak for Rachel Kirkconnell, my intentions were simply just ask for grace in offering her an opportunity to speak on her own behalf. What I now realize I've done is cause harm by wrongly speaking in a manner that perpetuates racism. And for that, I am deeply sorry. I also apologize to my friend Rachel Lindsay for not listening to her better on a topic she has a firsthand understanding of and humbly thank the members of Bachelor Nation who have reached out to me and held me accountable. I promise to do better. It is such a PR statement. I mean, it's well written, but like, does he really believe it?

48:04I don't know. February 13th, 2021, he announces that he is, in fact, stepping aside. And just a couple of weeks after he announced he's stepping aside, he's on GMA with Michael Strahan. I saw him. I plan to be back. I saw him. Oh, no, no. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, please. It's so stupid. I saw Michael Strahan like two weeks ago on the Upper West Side. Oh, love that. Sorry. He seems like he's so handsome. It was like, you know, a celeb sighting. I was like, Michael Strahan. He's so tall, obviously. Okay, sorry. Yeah, he's very handsome. I couldn't like hold it. I was like, I saw him. No, I love it.

48:36And Chris Harrison was like, I plan to be back. I want to be back. Like, I think he was fully confident that this was just a blip. He was like, it'll blow over. And he was going to return. Yeah, exactly. A month later, Rachel Craconnell also apologizes publicly and ABC taps Emmanuel Ocho to host After the Final Rose in lieu of Chris Harrison no longer, you know, being employed at the moment. And it was obvious ABC was trying to overcompensate here for the scandal, not only from Rachel Crickonnell, but also Chris Harrison in his botched interview. And Emmanuel Acho interviews Rachel alone first, and she apologizes and cries and is asked repeatedly to account for the antebellum photos.

49:11She says she hadn't understood what antebellum meant and is ashamed and embarrassed. And of course, I threw the pictures up on the monitor, which is like humiliating. But I mean, she has to address it. Yeah. And I actually think I remember watching this. Did you watch this or you were like totally like not tapped into the season or the straw? I think I've watched clips. Yeah, I actually think she handled it pretty well, considering that, again, she was not only like young when it happened, which is not an excuse, but just young in general, like and also new to being in the spotlight. She did not try to make says she did not try to justify anything.

49:43She was just like, yeah, like I, you know, it's horrible. And she like took accountability from what I remember. Yeah. And that's really all you can do. you know there is no excuse but it's good to know that she at least said i know better yeah moving forward what i did was wrong the lashings and that's all you can do in that position and um yeah i think she she held her own and did a good job all things considered right once harrison was kind of intermittently fired um katie thurston was the new lead and tasha adams and caitlin bristow were announced as chris's replacements on season 17 of the bachelor yeah i remember they kind of didn't do a good job people did not like them as hosts what did you think it was just weird because i did watch this season with katie thurston um and i love katie thurston i think that's great but um i tasha and caitlin it was weird set up to have two hosts instead of one it was just awkward and it almost was like oh so you think that one woman can't handle the job you have to have two in order to equal one man uh i think that it should have been tasha on her own i think that Tayshia's great.

50:47Caitlin Bristow, I think also is, you know, a decent host, but I think that it could have just been one of them. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I don't know how that would have. I mean, I didn't watch it, but it does seem a little bit difficult to kind of balance two people talking. Awkward. Like, what is efficient? Yeah. When Chris kind of started to realize, he's like, wait a minute, I don't know if they're going to ask me back. They tapped Tayshia and Caitlin, who are kind of like my direct reports, if you will, for this season. And they're not tapping me. Something's afoot here, and I feel like they're not telling me the whole story.

51:13So this is when Chris Harrison hires Brian Friedman, again, Baldoni's attorney, when he realized that ABC, the network, didn't have his back. And they kept saying, you're our guy and we're going to protect you. But they never said a word to defend him after one messy interview in 19 years. And he felt really, you know, slapped in the face. Brian Friedman also has represented many a Hollywood star in the past. Mariah Carey, Christopher Nolan, Quentin Tarantino, Robert Downey Jr., Julia Roberts, FKA Twigs. All these big players have been his clients. So Chris secured one of the highest-powered attorneys in the biz.

51:49And Brian Friedman was like, listen, if you guys continue to fuck around with my client, we're going to expose all of your dirty laundry as part of our negotiations. And I feel like this was a huge reason why Chris Harrison ended up getting paid out such a large sum of money. Because you know this man knows where every single body is buried. And if you guys are unfamiliar with the many a scandal, obviously we cover some of it in our Patreon. episode but what we didn't cover on the patreon episode and what i want to touch on is one of the earliest female leads on the bachelorette this is like in the 2000s she accused the network of sexual assault because she was told she was put in a massage room where she was assaulted i can't remember if it was like someone in production or someone that production hired who was the lead who um sorry curious me it up i want to start i did not watch the early early sorry meredith Phillips.

52:39Yep. Okay. She, yep. Former Bachelorette star Meredith Phillips, season two, 2004, revealed in a 28 interview with Reality Steve that she was drugged and sexually assaulted by a female massage therapist hired by producers in 2003. She says she felt fatigued and producers brought her into a massage therapist to her room to help her relax. Sorry, trigger warning. The masseuse allegedly gave Phillips a pill that rendered her unable to move her body. The last thing I remember was she got naked and she was in the tub with me and rubbing my back and rubbing areas probably she shouldn't have. And then I was put into bed and I woke up naked.

53:11She did not report at the time in 2003 because she wanted to protect the franchise. ABC and Warner Brothers declined to comment on the allegations when they surfaced in 2018. Oh my god. Yeah. So they've just had a lot of scandals and I think that Chris Harrison likely knew about this one, maybe many others. Again, if you watch the show Unreal, you know there's so much shit that goes behind on behind the scenes that is extremely fucked up. Right. And I think that despite Chris Harrison having all this knowledge of the scandals that followed the series, no one really wanted to work with him anymore.

53:46So Katie Thurston, for instance, the Bachelorette right after Matt James, she personally vetoed his return to her Bachelorette season after he called her. And then multiple contestants and leads were refusing to even film Paradise and Michelle Young season if Chris Harrison did in fact return. So it was almost this like uproaring of past contestants new contestants saying listen we do have no desire to film with this man he's a monster get him off so the network was kind of faced with this like push and pull of do we pay like do we kind of listen to our audience or do we run the risk of having chris harrison unload it all mention it all and ultimately they decided to um settle and they reported a total package of around 10 million dollars um to chris harrison to keep his mouth shut, which I think is actually kind of lower now that I'm thinking about it.

54:35If he was being paid as much money as he was like indefinitely to host. That was like a yearly salary for him, basically. Yeah. Yeah, that is surprising. I also like, there were so many and still so many Bachelor fans, because again, the show was such a kind of Christian conservative show for so long. It, you know, kind of fostered this audience that was very conservative and Christian and traditional. and of course so much of this audience was like chris did nothing wrong we want chris back i feel like the viewers were totally divided because you had 50 of them that aligned i think with more uh traditional christian values and then the other half that is what chris harrison deemed to be and i'm putting this the woke mob which is so offensive um ridiculous so yeah they were definitely put between a rock and a hard place because like you're gonna piss off half of your audience yeah which is it gonna be but i think the uproar was too intense that they could Like not ignore it.

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56:54omahasteaks.com. Impress your next dinner party or family cookout with exclusive products not available at grocery stores, all backed by Omaha Steaks 100 % money back guarantee. Get ready for grilling season with the mouthwatering Omaha Steaks Burger Perfection Pack, plus eight free Wagyu Smashburgers for just$99.99. Go to omahasteaks.com and as a bonus, use promo code YUM to get$35 off your order. That's$35 off with promo code YUM. Terms apply. See site for details. So he was fired. And in his post-bachelor era, he was kind of scrambling to figure out, what is my next move here? Like, you've been employed by this franchise for 20 plus years, and now it's gone.

57:36What do you do now? See, this is another reason why I feel like he wasn't happy about getting fired. Because if he was happy and just wanted to retire, he would just disappear. But he's like, no, I need more attention, more money. Podcasts, shows, he's really trying to get back in there. Yeah. In January of 2023, he launches the most dramatic podcast podcast ever with Chris Harrison on iHeart. And I just looked at their Instagram. The last post was in 2024. So I do remember when this podcast launched. But like so many podcasts, people think it's far easier than it really is. And it shuttered. oh it really it doesn't exist anymore on the on the podcast app there is episodes loaded to it but it's like it's weird it's almost like episodes of other podcasts on the feed that's what i got yes it is you're right yeah oh it's like random other i heart shows that are on the feed but not chris harrison himself isn't that weird oh my god that is so embarrassing it is really embarrassing because you would think you know being a host for 20 plus years he would be a great podcast host but But it didn't.

58:42Yeah, it didn't do too well. Yeah, they haven't posted a new episode of their podcast in forever. It's all other shows. Yeah, which I didn't even know you could do. Like, you have to pay for the hosting. Yeah, I don't get that. May 2025, Chris launches Through the Drama with Chris and Lauren, his wife, a daily televised podcast on Phil McGraw's Mirror TV. Mirror TV, if you're unfamiliar, which I was, like, what is this? It is an American digital multicast television network and streaming service owned by Mirror Street Media, a Fort Worth, Texas-based company founded by Phil McGraw as a joint venture between the Trinity Broadcasting Network and McGraw-Peterski's Productions with Steve Harvey randomly holding an equity stake.

59:20And the channel kind of primarily carries news and discussion programming featuring conservative commentary, which I feel like at this point, Chris Harrison is like, fuck y 'all. Like, you think that I'm too conservative? I'm going to fully lean in, full send into whatever you guys think about me. You want full red pill. Yeah. March 21st, 2026, Merit TV quietly ceased over the air productions. And the last podcast episode of this through the drama with Chris and Lauren, days to July 2025, so right after the network stopped. And the show only lasted like six weeks of broadcast before the bankruptcy filing pulled the rug out.

59:55And they just basically stopped publishing any episodes to their podcast feed. And it made me wonder, I'm like, why didn't they just like get bought out by another network? Like iHeart or Dear Media or Wondery or whatever. but the fact that they didn't move that show to another network kind of shows it was a merit home podcast yeah or or a flop and no one wanted to acquire it which is kind of crazy if you think about it is it though like the fact i think just i'm thinking from our pov in the podcasting industry you guys once you reach a certain level of success there will be certain there will be like podcast networks to ask oh would you be interested in working as like that just happens in the industry but the fact that no one even tapped chris harrison a man who hosted the franchise for 20 years just shows you like how irrelevant he became.

1:00:41Exactly. Like, I feel like it was never about Chris Harrison being like a personality. It was about the structure of the show that people liked. You could fill in any random person into that role. Like even like Jesse Palmer. That's his name, right? The current host? Yes. Jesse Palmer. A lot of people, I think that he does a better job than Chris Harrison, even though I don't really watch the show anymore. But yeah, you could just fill in any random guy. Like, it's not about chris harrison having appeal you know right he's appeal-less yeah um february 2026 fox nation greenlights an unfiltered new dating reality series from chris harrison aimed at a marriage aimed at quote marriage-minded singles built on commitment and shared values and the premiere is targeted to air on 20 in 2027 and there's an instagram post called now casting dating for a traditional marriage chris harrison is back hosting a brand new dating series send it back in the mail.

1:01:34That doesn't sound compelling at all. No, it's again, it's going to be even more conservative and traditional and Christian than the current Bachelor franchise. I'm not interested. These types of series do not exist in this world. Love is Blind, Love Island. We're out here. We're out here being so ratchet. Like, I don't want to see this. I'm sorry. We're out here watching the messiest people you have ever seen on television. That's what we want. Yes. I'm sorry. Like, I want to see Hood of Crush now. Yeah. Reality TV is not so to finding like traditional long lasting love. Unless you are Sean Lowe or whatever, whoever else has found traditional long-lasting love.

1:02:07But overall, it is not conducive. And the percentages of successful marriages that came out of the Bachelor franchise will tell you that. Yeah. And interestingly enough, where it's not even shocking, most of the successful relationships out of that franchise are the Bachelorette. Because women look for more than just, like, appearance. Yes. And I think men were so focused on the physicalness of the woman they chose versus, like, are we actually truly compatible? Could I see a future? Unsurprisingly, yeah. Because women have better, you know, intuitions than men. But still, it's not a high percentage of success.

1:02:34It's not a high success rate. Okay, let's move into his personal life and some just gossip about him really quickly. So, okay, actually, let's go to the gossip fan theories. Who has he dated from Bachelor Nation? Do you remember Selma Alamari from Sean Lowe's season? No. Okay, so Sean Lowe's season, if you guys remember, Ashley Frazier, um katherine judici i believe her name was selma alamary selma alamary was like beautiful i think when she was one of those people that you thought he's gonna choose her just simply because she was stunning gorgeous she looks like a kardashian and there were rumors that after he and his first wife gwen separated he was spotted hanging out with selma alamary at an la bar called pearls and a life and style eyewitness claims that chris was introducing selma as his girlfriend and they were not taking their hands off of each other.

1:03:27Selma denied it to E! News, but I recently went on her Instagram and she's married to a much older gentleman who I assume, I just assuming because she's beautiful and he's much older, like maybe he has a lot of wealth. But I randomly went to college with Selma's sister and I remember thinking like her sister was gorgeous, she was gorgeous, they were just like normal girls from San Diego. But it surprised me zero, one, like not at all that he started dating Selma just because she was like stunning and I think kind of his type. He likes like a brunette woman. Ashley Frazier in 2016, also from Sean Lowe's season, she was runner up.

1:04:01And Chris had been openly flirty with her, even on the 2013 Woman Tell All episode. Ashley Frazier told Life and Style that she thought that Chris was hot and she was open to dating him. Then in April 2016, Chris posted a photo of the two of them together at a celebrity basketball game in Houston. And Reality Steve reported that they actually were together all weekend. And in 2017, Ashley went on Reality Steve's podcast and she did admit, if I can really say anything, we probably did crush on each other. Did it ever go anywhere? No, it didn't. I had no idea about this one, but Ashley Spivey, I guess they dated too, or went on a date.

1:04:33Do you remember Ashley Spivey? I feel like it's kind of like, yeah, she's kind of like a whistleblower, I feel like for the franchise. She'll always call out problematic behavior. She's very open about like all of what she's gone through in her life. She's not had like the best, like she's had a tough go at a lot of experiences. And I love how honest and transparent she is with the audience. But they were set up and they went on a couple dates. Andy Dorfman also dated him. This was like kind of a rumor that we all know to be true. I recall Chris Harrison referred to Josh Murray, who was Andy Dorfman's F1 as a chew toy.

1:05:04What does that mean, a chew toy? I think Andy is a woman, and I've read her books. They're actually pretty juicy and compelling. Andy Dorfman is a woman who has grown up like very wealthy. And I think she wants a certain lifestyle. And I think she knew Josh Murray was unable to provide for her in that way. But I think she found him to be super hot and wanted to have sex with him. Oh, so chew toy, just like a play thing. Yeah, like a play thing. Exactly. And I think that Andy Dorfman, knowing her exquisite taste, was very into Chris Harrison. Because he's handsome, attractive, but also because she knows he could kind of fit that bill.

1:05:37Like expensive taste. Yes. Yes. And one other Bachelor Nation contestant that I had no idea he dated was Courtney Robertson. Robertson. Ben Flan Flanich's F1. Her book is very interesting. I'm not here to make friends. She mentioned it all. She talks about her relationship with John Tucker Must Die. I forgot his name. Jesse Metcalf. Jesse Metcalf. Yeah. It's Metcalf. Yes. Metcalf. I just yelled at you. I was like, it's Metcalf. It's Metcalf. I loved him on Desperate Housewives. And she also dated, I want to say, Adrienne Grenet. She has quite the roster. Yeah. And she also, she was the one that with Ben, the lead, they had sex in the ocean.

1:06:14Oh, my God. Yes. I forgot about that. Which I don't know how that works. Yeah. Don't know how that works. Like, how does one's vagina survive that? In the ocean. Like, literally in the ocean. I know. Not just on the beach. In the ocean. The water. I know. I have to admit, I've, like, done that. You've done? In salt water? Yeah. Oh, my God. I'm like, oh, my God. My coworkers are going to listen to this. Oh, my God. I can't even imagine. Did it burn? I know. No. What? But it was, I mean, it was pretty quick. I don't know. I can't even know. I used to even imagine what that was like. I know. I know.

1:06:45It's probably not seen. It's probably gross. That was also very, like, when that happened, it was very risque and controversial. Again, because this is a traditional, traditional conservative show. And it's like here too. Yeah. And also, like, they used to be so, they used to keep the fantasy suite stuff so under wraps. Like, it would be an unwritten rule. We don't talk about what happened in the fantasy suites, what happens there stays there. And now it's become almost a tradition in and of itself for the leads to be like, yeah, so I fucked. What's her name? I also fucked the other. I fucked actually all of you.

1:07:17So that's what makes this decision really hard. Yeah, yeah. No, I know. I'm just thinking of Hannah Brown, the windmill. Three times. Yes, yes, exactly. Now they're like so much more open about it than they once were. Yeah, it was so hush hush. I remember Emily Maynard's season when she was literally sobbing because she couldn't hook up with Ari Leondyke. Wait, why? Why couldn't she hook up? Because she wanted to be a classy mother because she was a mother to Ricky. But she was like so horny. She was so horny. She literally was sobbing on camera because she's like, I just like, I really wanted to spend the night with him.

1:07:47I was like, you want to hook up with him so badly. And I think I heard rumors like maybe she did when cameras were off. But again, we have so much Bachelor Nation lore. Like that could be a whole other episode in and of itself. But Chris Harrison kind of sucks. Oh, he really sucks. Look, it's almost like pathetic at this point that he keeps trying to like claw for relevancy and no one cares. Like literally no one gives a fuck. But like, no, that's what he deserves. Yeah, he's kind of had he had it coming for him. And I think to do what he did so brazenly and without even awareness that what he said to Rachel Lindsay was even problematic.

1:08:21And he texted her right after saying, great convo today. Catch you next time. Like you have no self-awareness. It's just not great. Great chat. Great chat. Oh, my God. That's so funny. Yeah. Yeah. But that's that on that on Chris Harrison. Let us know what other folks from Bachelor Nation you would be interested in hearing about. I mean, go on and on. Yeah. I think one that I would want to do is Amanda Stanton. Oh, that would be a good one. And we did do I'm trying to think we did Caitlin Burstow. We've done Nick Vile, obviously. I know there are others. And then we did that Patreon episode, like we said, a couple of weeks ago about Bachelor scandals.

1:08:56But yeah, like you said, He could just retire right now and be fine. He's made enough money to retire, but it's like he keeps trying to be relevant for some reason. Is it like the narcissism that he like thrives on like attention? I don't know. But what a what an interesting person. And I don't mean that. It kind of makes me wonder. Agreed. And it kind of makes me wonder if he is kind of gunning for so much, you know, for fame or for jobs, for gigs. Maybe he was living far beyond his means because you have to remember two people that make that kind of money. sometimes you just think it'll last forever and then you spend, like you're going to make that money for the rest of your life.

1:09:31But you bring up such a good point that if he started this when he was 30 and he got fired at 50, you're used to a lifestyle for 20 years. So you're just living exorbitantly and you have multiple houses, multiple payments, teams, like that adds up. So maybe there is a world in which he's hurting for money. Listen, I have no idea. But the fact that he's pushing for so much work, it's like, why? Yeah, you're so right. And he had no reason to believe that it wouldn't last forever. right because that show was invincible yeah the show the fact that this show was not relevant in 2026 is wild 10 years ago you would never be able to tell me no one cares about the show in 2016 like i was obsessed yeah and everyone was like yeah chris harrison best best gig and show business he's like set for life he's gonna host this forever and then you know all of a sudden he didn't so i could totally see him living beyond and that's why he's like doing all these you know know side quests that don't pan out yeah these weird gigs podcast shows but anyways thank you guys so much for listening patreon.com slash snarkbaypod we do a subsec every friday subsec.com slash at snarkbaypod x1entertainment.com slash snarkbay for our live shows follow us on instagram all the links and handles are in our show notes sophie posts hilarious content like i don't even know if you're not following us on instagram what are you doing like sophie's so good on it uh Rachel's so good on it.

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