What’s the Snark on Hilary and Haylie Duff’s Falling Out?

14:11Hilary Duff:I was obsessed. Okay, well, hello. I was watching it while it was airing. TV Land, right? It was, yeah. It was TV Land, and I was obsessed with it. It's a Darren Star production. So it's like Sex and the City, Emily in Paris. It's very like fun and funny. But I feel like, yeah, like it didn't have like a huge audience at the time. I was like the only person watching it, I feel like. Such a good show, though. Highly recommend if you're a fan of like Emily in Paris, Sex and the City. Like it's like silly and fun. Yeah, I heard it's an incredible show. And she's great in it. Like she's so good. She's genuinely a good actress.

14:45Hilary Duff:Like we said, we've talked about like child actors that grow up. And it's like, wait, you actually can't act. Like she can.

14:50Haylie Duff:Yeah, I think she's really improved as she's gotten older. So let's talk about Hillary's upbringing and like the TLDR on Haley. So Hillary is two years younger than her sister. Haley was born in February 1985, and Hillary was born in September 1987. Are you and Amanda, how far apart are you guys?

15:06Hilary Duff:We're three years. She's exactly to the month because we're both March babies like you. Oh, cute. So she is, yeah, exactly three years older than me.

15:14Haylie Duff:Okay, so my sister and I, I'm two years older than her. So I feel like we can kind of understand the sisterly dynamic when it comes to age gaps.

15:21Hilary Duff:Yep.

15:21Haylie Duff:So Hillary and Haley were born and raised in Texas by their parents Susan and Robert Duff before moving to L.A. to pursue both of their acting careers. So not just Hillary's. They wanted Haley to pursue one as well. Hillary was obviously the lead of Disney Channel's Lizzie McGuire. And Haley was – she had a couple since on TV. She was a series regular on Seventh Heaven. Seventh Heaven when I see you're happy. Did you watch that? I mean, clearly. Clearly. Like it's so embarrassing. That show was like dark. I never watched it. I mean, you're better off for it.

15:52Hilary Duff:Wasn't it kind of, correct me if I'm wrong, it was like a Christian show.

15:56Haylie Duff:Yes.

15:56Hilary Duff:Okay, that's probably why.

15:57Haylie Duff:The father was a reverend, but he actually had some really creepy allegations.

16:01Hilary Duff:Yes, didn't he? Like, he's a predator. Yes.

16:04Haylie Duff:Yes.

16:05Hilary Duff:In real life.

16:06Haylie Duff:Right, right. Haley also had some roles on The Amanda Show, That's So Raven. And she had a short stint on Broadway in June 2006 for Hairspray, but she kind of left after the fall. So only a couple months. So speaking with TV Insider in June 2005, Haley opened up about navigating the entertainment industry with Hillary at such a young age. She said, quote, I feel that we both ended up pretty normal. I think it's because my mom stayed really involved in my life. I spend a lot of time with my mom. I think the fact she was very involved in us navigating this industry is probably the reason we didn't go off the rails more.

16:36Haylie Duff:I'm not saying we didn't get into some trouble here and there, but nothing all that serious. And as a side note, I do think when we think about young Hollywood stars that end up kind of going off the rails, I think a lot of it has to do with the involvement of the parental figure. I think, for instance, Shia LaBeouf, whose dad would like drop him off at even Steven's sets and then like peace out. And I feel like now that we know so much about the darkness that is Dan Schneider and what the kind of abuse that these children are put under, under the guise of you're in this protected TV set. But there's, you know, cameras, lights.

17:09Haylie Duff:How could you ever be abused when, in fact, that was happening all the time behind the scenes? I do feel like Hilary Duff's mom being her momager and making decisions on behalf of Hilary and being right there on set with her was a large contribution to Hilary not being, I don't know, having as many issues as her counterparts.

17:25Hilary Duff:Right. She kind of beat the child actor curse.

17:28Haylie Duff:Yeah. Yeah. And Hilary Duff says in Call Her Daddy, she's like, I know people always label me the good girl. and I didn't always like that growing up because I felt like I was labeled something that I didn't feel was necessarily true to me. But at the same time, I do think my family had a big part in me growing up, quote unquote, normal. So I can imagine being Susan Duff, Hilary and Haley's mother, how difficult it must have been raising two girls and having one far more famous than the other. And Susan Duff really tried to make Haley happen, but she really could never recreate the success that Hilary had had.

17:59Haylie Duff:Susan went so far as even to produce this film called Material Girls. I actually never saw this. And this was at the height of Hilary Duff where everything she did turned into gold. Like Cinderella Story, Agent Cody Banks. But when Material Girls hit like the silver screen, it completely panned. It grossed$16.9 million in Lucas Haas. Trigger warning. We talk about him on one of our favorite episodes we've ever recorded. Pussy Posse. Pussy Posse with Leo DiCaprio. Like we did a whole episode on this on our Patreon, patreon.com slash snarkbait pod. But Lucas Haas was one of the Pussy Posse members.

18:30Haylie Duff:and he was one of the stars on Material Girls. And he said that he found the film to be so awful he didn't even expect it to ever be released. Oh my God, that's so funny. It's so embarrassing. He's like, I was so unhappy with the film and he said that we had been trying to sell the film to different distributors with little to no success until it finally landed. But this is, I feel, Susan Duff's attempt to really push both girls in their careers. Like as a duo. Yes, like maybe a Mary Kay and Ashley type situation. Right. A little bit more on Haley, always living in the shadow of someone else's dream.

19:02Haylie Duff:Haley had some featured parts on Hillary's music. This kind of made me laugh. In Hillary Duff's album in 2015 called Breathe In, Breathe Out, which I feel like no one really talked about, she was the whistling in Hillary's song Sparks. It starts off with this. And it's Haley Duff's, you know.

19:21Hilary Duff:Well, that's impressive that she can do that. Can you imagine Amanda being like,

19:24Haylie Duff:Sophie, I'm going to record an album. Do you mind whistling on it?

19:27Hilary Duff:I'd be like, fuck off. Can you whistle? Oh, good job. I've never been able to whistle. So I'm impressed, genuinely.

19:36Haylie Duff:I'm just built different, you know?

19:38Hilary Duff:Yeah, you are.

19:39Haylie Duff:So Hailey tried to make her own attempt at singing. She signed with Hollywood Records, and she was planning on releasing a single called Screwed in August 2004 as her debut. But Paris Hilton revealed that she had also recorded a version of Screwed for her debut album, which, by the way, Paris Hilton's singing career is so slept on, I was obsessed with Stars Are Blind Obsessed.

19:59Hilary Duff:I mean, it's a good song. It's so good.

20:01Haylie Duff:Haley claimed that she had procured the rights to this song Screwed from Songwriters prior and attempted to block Paris from releasing the song. But Paris Hilton's version was leaked onto Radio Airplay before their management teams could settle the dispute. And basically, Haley Duff's team decided not to pursue the case further. They're like, whatever, Paris can have it. In 2008, Haley Duff had a debut album called Walk the Walk, which was scheduled to be released later in the year. However, it was never released. And Haley ended up parting ways with Hollywood Records. So it's like attempt after attempt that didn't end up panning out.

20:34Haylie Duff:It almost like it wasn't written in the stars for her.

20:36Hilary Duff:Yeah, like a lot of bad luck, it seems like.

20:39Haylie Duff:Yeah. And she ultimately stepped away from her desire to be in the spotlight. And she now is more behind the scenes. She produces directs and small films. And in 2012, she started her own blog. I weirdly and vaguely remember this called Real Girls Kitchen, which was later picked up by the Cooking Channel and made into a show in 2014. But I did go onto the Instagram, and it's been six years since she's posted to the Real Girls Kitchen Instagram, so I doubt this is a real business venture of hers anymore. Yeah. And in 2017, she started her own children's fashion line called Little Moon Society. But I think all in all, just all these things kind of show that she really did try, and it never really panned out.

21:15Haylie Duff:It's kind of sad. Yeah. And I do feel like, you know, they were both really young girls. Hillary was like, I think, 11 when she first started on Lizzie McGuire, making Haley 13 when her sister found immense success. You have to imagine growing up 13 through like 25. Your sister is like the biggest star on the planet. She meant so much to everyone. And you're just trying to make your career happen. And it never pans out. Like, I do think there's something probably psychologically deep-seated in Haley, which I don't blame her at all.

21:44Hilary Duff:Like, this is tough. And their mom moved them to L.A. to pursue acting for both of them. It just was a lucky break that, I mean, deserved because she was great, but like it kind of was a lucky break that Hillary was the one that was discovered between the two of them.

21:58Haylie Duff:Yeah. And Hillary said that her and Haley and Susan had tried auditioning them for so many Disney Channel shows to the point where by the time that she auditioned for Lizzie McGuire, the showrunners already knew who she was because she was always showing up and she never got past the audition. And it just kind of shows you that it was like so much tenacity on both of the young girls' parts. And Hillary finally, at one point, was able to audition for Lizzie McGuire. She ended up completely bombing the first audition. The showrunner asked her straight up. She's like, you're not prepared for this.

22:27Haylie Duff:You need to come back tomorrow and be more prepared. Hilary Duff like went home that night, studied all of her lines and came back swinging and she ended up landing the role. But it shows like it wasn't just like a lucky break for Hilary immediately. They were both trying so hard. And finally, after years, Hilary ended up like succeeding.

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26:08Yeah.

26:08Haylie Duff:So let's dive more into Hillary's family relationships with her dad specifically. I didn't realize how successful Hillary's family was before Lizzie McGuire. So Hillary Duff's dad was a small business owner and he actually seemed to be very successful. Robert Duff, her father, was a partner in a chain of convenience stores across Texas with Hillary's grandfather. John Duff. And the family did well enough that Susan Duff was able to be a homemaker and obviously later a film and music producer for Hillary. And as I mentioned, they were raised in Texas. But when the girls expressed an interest in acting, the mom decided to leave Texas to go pursue acting in LA.

26:44Haylie Duff:And they moved to California in 1993 while their father ended up staying in Houston to take care of their businesses. So before the girls were even 10 years old, the mom fully upended their life and moved to California. And due to her acting career, Hillary was homeschooled from the age of eight. The girls also modeled for like various clothing brands. And Hillary has said that, quote, my sister and I really showed an interest in performing and dedication. And our mother was like, how can I tell my kids no? It's the same as kids that are going into sport. Parents support them and push them.

27:14Hilary Duff:Well, I wanted to be an actress when I was five. Why did my parents not move me to Hollywood? Yeah.

27:20Haylie Duff:I mean, like, didn't we all want to be actresses when we were five? You and I for sure. I'm going to be a movie star. Yeah, I was like, Mom, I want an agent. I want to go to Hollywood and have a show. So the family was separated, obviously, when the girls were so young. So it's not really shocking that Susan and Robert Duff decided to split in 2008. And Hillary's father, Bob Robert, he himself confirmed that Hillary's fame put a lot of strain on not just his relationship with his daughters, but his relationship with his wife. and he actually ended up divorcing her in 2008 following an extramarital affair that he even admitted to in an interview with Inside Edition.

28:00Haylie Duff:He said, quote, Susan was very consumed with the girls' careers. We simply grew apart. I was unfaithful to our marriage. I feel very badly about that and the effect that it had on our girls. And the same year that they filed for divorce, Hillary's dad got himself into more hot water in 2008, even spending a night in jail after getting arrested for violating an injunction against selling assets without court approval. What that really means, I'm not really entirely sure, but it's like white collar crime. And he said, I'd never been handcuffed before. And I came across an article on the Associated Press that was published in 2008.

28:30Haylie Duff:And it says, quote, a judge in Texas has ordered the father of actress and singer Hillary Duff to spend 10 days in jail for contempt of court. Bob Duff was led away in handcuffs Wednesday morning during a court hearing after Judge Thomas Stansbury in Houston determined he violated an injunction after against selling assets without court approval. And it said that he must pay in court repository$367 ,000 that he earned from selling stocks last month. So it seems like their fame at the height, I mean, at Hilary Duff's fame, her family was falling apart. And that's just a bummer because I feel like it's difficult for you to be a young woman in your teens, but also be the most famous girl in the early 2000s and your family falling apart.

29:08Haylie Duff:It actually is such a miracle that she turned out so normal.

29:12Hilary Duff:It really is. And be the child actor. curse because navigating all of this without like a real steady stable support system was probably

29:22Haylie Duff:incredibly difficult exactly and hillary has admitted how difficult it was for her at the time she said in a glamour magazine interview recently she said i think it's really challenging for one person to have major success in a family it's been hard to get back to a place of health i do think my dad loves me i don't think you can bring a child into the world and not love them forever, but it's hard to feel like that. And that's in response to her song on her album, where she says, I wish my dad really loved me. It says, let me read the whole lyric. It says, I wish I could sleep on planes and that my dad would really love me.

29:53Haylie Duff:He'd show up on my wedding day and tell my family they're all so lucky. He'd tell me how he wished he'd stay, and then he never meant to disappoint me. But till then, I'll exist as the optimist. This is from the new album? Yes, this is the album that was just released two weeks ago. Yeah. And it genuinely is so provocative in the way that she's talking so openly about her family dynamic and the struggles that she has with her sister and her father. And she even told Rolling Stone this year that there are times when she will talk to her dad and times that she doesn't. But I do remember following her career so closely as a young girl, she never talked about her dad.

30:25Haylie Duff:It was always my mom, my mom, my mom, my sister, my sister, my sister. So it's not surprising considering how her dad was kind of absent during a lot of her fame because they just simply lived in different states. And this was before FaceTime and stuff, right? So it's not like -

30:38Hilary Duff:Well, there was Skype. Remember Skype?

30:40Haylie Duff:Of course. Do you remember Uvu? Did you ever use Uvu?

30:43Hilary Duff:I don't think I used Uvu. Was that like Skype?

30:45Haylie Duff:Yeah, same thing. So funny. Back in the day, you guys, we had to log on to our desktops to like -

30:50Hilary Duff:I remember I had a long distance boyfriend. Mistake number one, going to college while still dating a guy from home and doing long distance.

30:57Haylie Duff:Wow.

30:58Hilary Duff:And we had to Skype because we didn't have like iPhones yet. We had like Blackberries. Yeah, my gosh. TBT.

31:04Haylie Duff:We would BBM, though. Loved BBM. LaGuardia has been that girl since her BBL.

31:09Hilary Duff:LaGuardia is that girl since her BBL. That's one of my favorite things you've ever said. I'm talking about because, wait, we talked about this already. Did we?

31:20Haylie Duff:We talk so often, but yeah, it is so funny. Okay, let's talk about what's been making the headlines now that you guys kind of have a background on her father or her sister. So I think the TLDR on the severance, the separation between Hillary and Haley, something happened during the pandemic that led Hillary and Haley to be estranged. But I feel like obviously this has been brewing for years now. And I do think it has nothing to do with Haley allegedly being Republican, Hillary being more left-leaning. I think it has everything to do with Hillary's husband, Matthew Koma. And let's get into it. I think before we even talk about like the drama and what she said about Haley, we need to walk through Matt and Hillary's relationship so you can really understand the full picture timing and why Hillary's marriage to Matthew was in and around the time that Haley and her stopped talking.

32:03Haylie Duff:So Matthew and Hillary, if you guys are unfamiliar with Matthew Koma, he's a music producer. And Matt and Hillary collaborated on her 2015 album Breathe In, Breathe Out, and that's how they met. It's kind of like how Selena Gomez met Benny Blanco through music and work. So Hillary and Matt dated on and off for several years before marrying in 2019. And Hillary told People Magazine in 2021, we knew we just had to be together because we tried a bunch of times to be apart and it didn't work out for either one of us. So in early 2013, they first met in the studio. And after hearing a couple of... And this is when she...

32:37Haylie Duff:When did she have Luca? So her and her first husband, Mike Comrie, they got together when Hillary... I don't remember the year, but Hillary was 22 or 23 when she had Luca. and her and Mike Comrie ended up divorcing in... He was born... Okay, Luke was born in 2012. So this is when she basically had like a one-year-old. Yep. And Hillary and Mike ended up divorcing in 2016. So by the time... When her and Matt had met, she was still married.

33:03Hilary Duff:Yep. And Hillary says... Do you remember, by the way, we should have put this in pop culture stories that we forgot about. Do you know what I'm about to say? The balcony? Yes.

33:10Haylie Duff:Yes. Yeah, yeah. I was about to say the balcony and her giving head.

33:13Hilary Duff:Yeah. The paparazzi photos.

33:16Haylie Duff:Which... Yes. Zero judgment. Who else did that? There was another star that did that.

33:20Hilary Duff:When Timothy Chalamet and... Isaac Gonzalez. Isaac Gonzalez were caught having sex in a hot tub in Mexico.

33:27Haylie Duff:And you know what else? I was thinking of Britney Spears giving Kevin a Federline head in like Miami or something. Oh my God, I don't think I know about that one. Wait, let me fact check. Okay, no, sorry. She was just kind of like holding his crotch.

33:40Hilary Duff:Holding his crotch. Okay, that's fine. Like, who cares? Yeah. Zero judgment, by the way, across the board. It's just, it's the paparazzi that were invading these people's privacy.

33:49Haylie Duff:Right. So after hearing Matthew Coma's demo, the pair enjoyed a two-hour lunch together. And Hillary has said, there wasn't an instant spark because I think when you're walking into a professional meeting, she was also married, but I don't think she mentioned this in the quote. I think when you're walking into a professional meeting, you know nothing about the other person. I didn't know if he was dating someone. And then we started talking about music. Things started sparking. he was being funny enough, not flirtatious, but funny enough to where we started creating a banter and a nice friendship right off the bat.

34:16Haylie Duff:But she acknowledged on Call Her Daddy that they both acknowledged it was not the right time in their life, but they just maintained a friendship. But after she divorced Mike Comrie, Hillary, and Matthew Coma made their red carpet debut at the SAG Awards in January 2017, they had been very off and on at the beginning of their relationship. So just two months after they made their red carpet debut, they called it quits in March 2017. I remember this. I do too. The couple reconciled a few months later and decided to give it another shot. A source told E News at the time, since Matt just got back from tour, they've begun seeing each other again.

34:50Haylie Duff:Him being gone on tour was the main reason things didn't work out the first time around. So now that he's back, they picked up right where they left off. And when I listened to Call Her Daddy, Hillary said that when her and Matthew Koma first started dating, she had just gotten out of her divorce. She's like, I was kind of ready to like fuck shit up. I wanted more of like a problematic guy. I just wanted to have fun. And Matthew was just too nice. And so I kind of just broke up with him out of nowhere. And it wasn't because I didn't like him. It just it wasn't the right time. And she said that she was in her car and she got a text from Matthew Koma.

35:20Haylie Duff:And she was so excited. And she's like, let's give this another shot. And she said when she was filming Younger in New York City, there was a night where she was doing press all day for something. And she says, you know, one of those days where you're like not eating because you're just like, go, go, go. You're talking to so many people. You're just like on like adrenaline and alcohol, basically. She's like that night, me and Matt decided to do like an omakase dinner. And I just started a fight with him out of nowhere because I was just tired and like I was probably still buzzed. And she said that that dinner erupted into such a fight that the next morning, Matthew Koma left her in the New York City hotel.

35:53Haylie Duff:Like, whatever that fight was about, that was, like, the second time they broke up. And she's like, we've been off and on, like, so often. But she said they ended up reconciling just a week later, and the rest is history. And so in December 2017, Hillary said that third time's a charm. She says, I think that you have history and a past with someone in love. And just because it doesn't work out the first time, the second time, as long as there's not too much damage done, then it can always work out again.

36:17Hilary Duff:Wow, I feel like she's the exception to that and not the rule. I feel like usually if you break up that many times, it's like, okay, this isn't meant to be. But it's clearly worked out for them.

36:25Haylie Duff:Agreed, agreed. It seems like it was pretty diabolical in the beginning. And I think Hilary Duff, from what I got from the interview with Alex Cooper, it seemed like she was kind of the problem all the time. And he was just kind of always willing to wait for her until she made up her mind.

36:38Hilary Duff:I mean, at Obakase, the sake is flowing. Exactly. Words come out that you can't take back. Right, right.

36:46Haylie Duff:Been there. Right. So in October 2018, Hilary Duff and Matthew Koma, they weren't married yet, but they welcomed their first baby. And then just like eight months after they welcomed their first baby, they announced their engagement. And Hilary wrote on Instagram, he asked me to be his wife and she showed off her ring. And he said, I asked my best friend to marry me at Hilary Duff. And in December 2019, this is when Hilary and Matthew tied the knot. And this is where it starts to get dicey when it comes to Haley and hers relationship as sisters. So the signs were kind of low-key always there. And I came across an article that was published to Us Weekly in January 2020.

37:21And ahead of Hillary and Matthew getting married, Haley told Us Weekly that she was certain that Hillary would not elope.

37:28Haylie Duff:She did joke, however, that, oh, me and my fiancé, Matt Rosenberg, we might elope. But Hillary's parents will literally—Hillary and, like, my parents will kill me if I do. But when asked about her sister Hillary's wedding, Haley said, quote, Hillary will have a wedding because she's the good daughter that does. like everything that she's supposed to. I'm not really helping her plan. She's planning her own little thing.

37:48Hilary Duff:So this was, okay, this was before the wedding.

37:51Haylie Duff:So this was in 2019, not 2020. Yes, yes. Oh, sorry. The Us Weekly article was published in 2020. But yeah, she had said these words before they got married. Yeah. Before they got married. Yeah. In December 2019. But don't you think that's a little shady? I'm not really helping her plan. She's planning her own little thing. Her own little thing is like kind of like shady. Yeah. And her saying she will have a wedding because she's the good daughter that does everything she's supposed to.

38:17Hilary Duff:Yeah. That sounds shady. There are backhanded compliments here.

38:21Haylie Duff:Yes. And to say it to a publication that's going to write your words. Yeah, what are you doing? It's so weird. I think that's really weird. So in March 2020, March 14th, 2020.

38:31Hilary Duff:Oh, my God.

38:32Haylie Duff:The day after COVID hit all of us. Yeah, the entire world shut down.

38:36Hilary Duff:I remember it was like Friday, March 13th, I want to say.

38:39Haylie Duff:Yeah, Friday the 13th.

38:40Hilary Duff:Friday the 13th, the world changed forever.

38:43Haylie Duff:Yes. Hilary Duff posted her Instagram story a picture of a tabloid. And it's like a picture of Kate Middleton, but on the side it says, Hilary Duff, marriage on the rocks already. And Hilary Duff puts on her story, apparently Matt and I are having trouble. And there are random blind items.

38:58Hilary Duff:And she says, he hasn't told me yet, dot, dot, dot. Oh, yeah. Sorry, I didn't see that. That's really funny.

39:03Haylie Duff:Apparently Matt and I are having trouble. He hasn't told me yet. And there are random blind items that have circulated the internet for years that Haley has released stories about Haley to the tabloids.

39:12Hilary Duff:That is a relationship ending as a famous person. I can totally under—because if you can't even trust your sibling, like, oh my god, you already feel like you really, really, really have to be careful about who you let into your life. Exactly. Oh my god. That's like— It's your blood, by the way. That is—oh my god. That would 1 ,000 percent—I know it's like—we don't know if that's actually— true. It's just blind eye dubs. But if that is true, I would never speak to my sibling again.

39:41Haylie Duff:Agreed. And the timeline, again, Hilary and Matthew tie the knot, December 2019. There's this Us Weekly article that's published that Haley made comments about the wedding before it happened saying she's planning her own little thing. She'll do whatever a good daughter does. And then two months after that Us Weekly article is published, another tabloid article is saying that her and Matt are having problems. Like, all these things are weird to me.

40:01Hilary Duff:it's almost like hayley i mean it's understandable right because we talked about how hard it would be to kind of be like the not famous sister of the two like was she trying to take hillary down a peg uh ruin her happiness because she was bitter jealous right which again this is purely speculative but it does kind of make sense if you think about it yeah and like we really have to speculate based

40:26Haylie Duff:on what Hillary has admitted. And I didn't put this in the outline in my notes here, but when all the Ashley Tisdale mom, I almost said mom talk, mom group was published, the Cut article, and Matthew Koma had that shady Instagram post of him dressing like Ashley Tisdale and saying she's so self-centered and tone deaf. Haley Duff got lunch with Ashley Tisdale like days after that drama. Yeah, I saw that. Haley's poking the bear, in my opinion. She's 100%. She's feeding into all this gossip, and she knows exactly what she's doing when she's being photographed or wherever they were. like Chateau Marmont or somewhere like very tabloidy path filled.

40:59Haylie Duff:Yeah. So this weird Instagram story or like Hilary Duff saying me and Matthew are having problems, that's March 2020. So let's fast forward to October and November 2020. This is the last time Haley ever posted. I went down her entire Instagram to see when the last time she posted about Hilary was. Oh my God, that's so funny. I literally was like late at night, doom scrolling.

41:16Hilary Duff:Also, they were so cute as children. Sorry. Yeah. It's a picture. It's like a picture of them where they're children and like they were so cute, Like these little like blonde children. No wonder the mom was like, you guys need to go to Hollywood. Right. My mom didn't take me to Hollywood because I was too ugly.

41:34Haylie Duff:No, but I know what you mean. They're such like Texas like pageant girls. Yes, pageant girls.

41:39Hilary Duff:Yeah.

41:39Haylie Duff:Yeah, like Haley Duff's hair is totally blown out. Like I wish my hair looked like that at, you know, in my 30s. Like her hair looks amazing.

41:46Hilary Duff:Yeah.

41:46Haylie Duff:So Haley Duff posted a throwback photo on November 16th, 2020. And she's just as referencing how they look like they're now kids. Hillary and Haley's kids. And then a month before, it's a picture of the family. Hillary's with Luca. Haley's with her young daughter and their mother. And they're like cooking in the kitchen. So this is November and October 2020, the last time Haley ever posts about Hillary. And I went down Hillary's Instagram and maybe I just didn't catch it. She didn't really post a lot about Haley, like grid photos. So it wasn't like I couldn't find receipts of when Hillary last posted about Haley.

42:14Haylie Duff:But the TLDR is that after these posts in November 2020, Haley stops interacting with Hillary's social media at all in January of 2021. No comments, no birthday acknowledgements, no birthday posts on the story, etc.

42:26Hilary Duff:But they still follow each other.

42:27Haylie Duff:They still follow. Yes, they still follow each other. I think something happened during this first year of marriage because they got Matthew and Hillary got married in December 2019. Fast forward to January 2021. So basically a year later, post their nuptials, Haley and Hillary stopped interacting and stopped talking to each other altogether. And the public didn't actually really catch on to this estrangement until a TikTok creator named Jordi Cray. he started posting about it on tiktok in march 2022 he talks about in this tiktok the og tiktok that i watch he said you know i was watching material girls with hillary and hayley and i asked myself what is hayley duck doing i noticed that they still follow one another on instagram and at the time i think it was hayley followed matthew but matthew did not follow hayley what are the other i forget since then hayley and matthew as of today uh february 26 2026 hayley and Matthew do not follow each other at all on Instagram.

43:18Haylie Duff:So whenever Jordi Cray made this TikTok, again, I forget if it's Haley following Matthew and not the other way around. Yeah. Both of them do not follow each other anymore. Wow. So Jordi Cray says, you know, I noticed that they're not posting Hilary Duff around the time of Haley's birthday. She was in Vegas at like a concert. She posted with her girlfriends, but no evidence that she posted about Haley Duff on her birthday, even though they consistently would comment, post about each other. No trace of this on their socials in 2022. And Jordi Cray admitted on the Dumas podcast, he said that he was tipped off from a source in 2022 that Hillary and Haley did in fact watch his TikTok.

43:51Haylie Duff:They know about his TikTok. And despite all the rumors that we think that it's because Haley and Hillary have different views on the pandemic and COVID and political beliefs, it's not about that at all. It's Matthew Coma at the center of it. Wow. And I think the timeline of what I just walked you guys through does line up. Something with Matthew Coma, I think, happened in the year of their first year of marriage that caused Haley to separate herself. This timeline absolutely adds up. And there's been so much speculation. And you and I are very online. We've seen this speculation for so long over the last couple of years.

44:23Haylie Duff:In the CBS Mornings interview with Anthony Mason, which, by the way, I highly recommend you guys watch that over the Call Her Daddy interview because I think Anthony Mason asked questions in a way that was conversational that allowed Hillary to really— There were thoughtful answers on Hillary's part. And he was able to really talk with her point blank about her relationship. Give him a podcast. No, literally everyone was saying like kudos to Anthony Mason for being so, for like allowing Hillary to be disarmed on this interview.

44:48Hilary Duff:Literally, like I feel like I've seen so many clips from this interview. I've seen none from Call Her Daddy except like the, oh, I crashed the Lindsay Lohan premiere, blah, blah, blah. And like, yeah, never any interesting tidbits or soundbites come from Call Her Daddy.

45:02Haylie Duff:Unless it's like by accident. Right. Question, answer, question, answer. No thought provoking follow up questions at all made by Alex Cooper. But fortunately, Anthony Mason's doing the Lord's work and he asks her, you're talking about your sister. What happened? Like, sorry, is We Don't Talk, one of the songs on your album about Haley? And Hillary confirms, yes, it's definitely about my sister. And just absolutely the most lonely part of my existence is not having my sister in my life at the moment.

45:26Hilary Duff:And she also looks so, she's on the verge of tears during this.

45:30Haylie Duff:You and I, you and I were texting about this when I sent the clip. And Sophie goes, she looks like she's about to like cry. She looks so sad. So sad. Right. And when asked by Anthony Mason what Hillary thinks Hayley will think of the song on the album, she says she's not sure, but she wanted to put it on the record because it is her own truth. It's Hillary's truth. And Hillary said, quote, I don't know if she'll hear it. I don't know how she'll react to it. You know, it's a really personal part of my life that doesn't get to stay personal. So I might as well say how it is for me. And that's all I'm trying to do.

46:00Haylie Duff:I'm not trying to say anything bad. It's literally just my experience. And that's really all I feel like sharing. and when Anthony asked her do you hope your sister hears this she said Hillary says I don't think that would help I have to exist as a person on my own you have to do what you want to do and what feels good for you and just to add a little bit more later on that when Hillary was asked that question she kind of said like nothing about this song is going to change any dynamic in our relationship like it is what it is like where we stand right now and so the song isn't going to make her the way I got from that is like Haley's not going to reach out just because she listened to this song yeah it's not going to make a meaningful difference no So, I don't know.

46:36Haylie Duff:This part made me, when she was admitting to this, as a person who has a sister, I feel like growing up so closely in age, not even to say you need to be close in age to be close with a sibling, but just from my own experience, doing things so parallelly with Audrey for so long and then having just no contact with her, that's devastating. And then there has to create a dynamic in Hillary's head of like, is it because of me? Because I was always the child that had more.

47:04Hilary Duff:Yeah. And I mean, my sister is like an extension of me. We always joke like, you're a side character in my life. You know how like everyone feels like their sibling is a side character. Yeah.

47:14Haylie Duff:Yeah.

47:15Hilary Duff:It's like the funniest thing. Amanda's like, I don't feel like you're a side character in my life. I'm like, yeah, because I'm the main character. Anyway, my point is that like we are extensions of each other. And we're luckily very close. We weren't that close growing up because, I mean, we were three years apart. and I feel like I always wanted to like hang out with my older sister and she was like, ew, get away from me. But I feel like as we have grown older, we've just gotten closer and closer and this can go for any, I feel like any siblings, any age difference, it doesn't really matter like what genders you are, what the age difference are.

47:46Hilary Duff:It's just like your sibling is an extension of you. And I know that some people don't have that relationship with their sibling, but a lot do. And I feel like I just can't imagine, like it's the one person in the world who fully understands you because they grew up alongside you, parallel to you.

48:02Haylie Duff:Yes. Yes. And the fact that you have the same blood, DNA, your parents, whatever hard and tough experience you went through as kids being the children of your shared parents, there's something in that bond that is hard to break. So something drastic must have happened. Yes. And I can't even believe I'm referencing freaking Kristen Cavallari. but we know her.

48:25Hilary Duff:Manmark?

48:27Haylie Duff:Someone was like, Chrissy, the Sophie voice is starting to sound like you host a podcast with Kristen.

48:30Hilary Duff:I know. I love that. I'm obsessed with it. So, Manmark?

48:34Haylie Duff:No, literally though, you are like, your voice is so similar. Like all my friends here are like, why does Sophie sound like she's from California? Why does she sound like she's from?

48:42Hilary Duff:Wait, that's so funny because I've gotten that my entire life and I'm like, I'm not from California. I don't know. Maybe it is because I watched so much TV growing up. I watched so much. No, it has to be.

48:50Haylie Duff:Like 100%. Like, yes, absolutely. I do think you talk like you're more, you sound like you're more from California than I do. That's so funny and embarrassing.

48:59Hilary Duff:Because I know it's not a compliment. But it is what it is. Yeah. We can't help our voices. Yeah. So me and Mark.

49:07Haylie Duff:Henry. Henry. Out of my way. Henry. I will never get over that. I'm going to start naming our group chat between the three of us. Out of my way. Just like, it's not going to be like spaces. It's just going to be out of my way. Out of my way. I'm going to do that after we get off this call. Out of my way. Henry, out of my way. Out of my way. And Henry's just shaking his head like...

49:26Hilary Duff:For reference, you guys, if this is another inside joke that you weren't, like, present for, it was when we were having technical difficulties, and I was FaceTiming Christy, and Henry was trying to fix the camera, and I was like, out of my way. Out of my way. And Christy was so scared on the other line. She was like, oh, my God, they're fighting. I, like, didn't know what to do.

49:45Haylie Duff:No, it's... We were trying to figure out this thing for our LLC yesterday, And so I feel like, Henry, I'm going to need your help when you get back from my office.

49:53Hilary Duff:I don't know what this is. You guys, this is such an annoying segue. I'm so sorry. But no one tells you that when you started LLC, scammers love you all of a sudden. They pounce. Yep. Scammers pounce. And we're like, we've never done this before. So we're like, oh my God, we owe$2 ,000 to World Trademark Association. And Henry's like, that's obviously a scam. am. So just so you know, if you're starting an LLC, that's something to look out for because no one told us.

50:21Haylie Duff:No. And Sophie's like sending me, I don't know what's real, what's not. Henry, when you come home, you're going to have to just cyber this for me.

50:33Hilary Duff:I'm an independent woman until it comes to whatever I need Henry for. Like fixing the Jura just now.

50:39Haylie Duff:No, the thing is, the thing is, like, it's nice because you because you have him, you don't have to figure it out. Like I was talking to my like single girlfriend, best friend, and she was like, that's because Sophie has a husband. He can help. She can help her with these things. I was like, no, I know. But like with me, I have to,

50:52Hilary Duff:it's me, myself, and I. That's why you're so good at figuring things out. You'll figure it out for me. You're like, I'm troubleshooting this for you. And I'm like, oh my God, it's like a Saturday. Like, relax. Send me the screenshot, Sophie.

51:06Haylie Duff:What is it saying? One second. Henry's trying to do it himself. It's like a Saturday. I'm like, take a day off. But she can't. I can't. No, I literally can't. Like, it's like, it's like in my, speaking of DNA, you know? Okay, sorry, sorry. Sorry, sorry.

51:21Hilary Duff:Back to Kristen Cavallari.

51:22Haylie Duff:Yeah. Okay. I was like, I don't even know how we got here. Okay, so Kristen Cavallari, she had a tragedy in her life where her brother had this like freak death, a freak accident death, if you want to call it that. I don't know if it was, whatever happened is tragic. Yeah. And I watched this episode of, you know that Henry the Median, Tyler, sorry, Tyler, the Tyler Henry.

51:42Hilary Duff:Tyler Henry, the medium. Yeah.

51:44Haylie Duff:Medium. Yeah. Sorry. He did a reading with Kristen or maybe it was some other celebrity like a medium. It doesn't matter. But basically, Kristen asked the medium, she goes, I always felt badly because my life had all these good things and success. And I feel like my brother didn't. And the medium assured Kristen, like, your brother is not upset with you because you were given like the bigger half, basically. And that made Kristen feel very at peace because she was struggling with that after his death. and i think that when it comes to hillary and hailey obviously there's no death involved fortunately but i do think that it's really hard for both i'm not undermining either one of their struggles because to me hillary it's not it's not my fault that i'm popular it's not her fault that she was like gained all the success and made a lot of money and uh but but i do think that like that probably caused guilt for hillary and then it also caused probably a lot of shame for hailey that she couldn't undo at a very young age.

52:37Haylie Duff:So I don't think either person is wrong. I think that there's a lot of complex psychological things that are happening here.

52:45Hilary Duff:Absolutely. And I feel like we talk about it with like Nepo babies, like the curse of the Nepo baby, because obviously they have so many privileges and advantages in life. They're rich. Like who feels bad for Nepo babies? But then when you really think about it, imagine having, you are living in the shadow of someone else's dream. You have these impossible standards to live up to and you ask yourself like, do I only have this opportunity because of who I'm related to? It makes you probably question everything about yourself. After years of really not caring about my health as much as I should, one of my goals this year is to finally change that.

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57:02Haylie Duff:When you want your spring break to feel like and your kid's pool day to feel like and your hotel bed to feel like ooh, and room service to feel like because at Hilton, hospitality feels like Your cabana's ready. Would you like fresh towels? It matters where you stay. Book now at Hilton.com. Hilton, for this day. yeah yeah and i think that if we look at ashley simpson for instance that's actually i think the anomaly outlier scenario where jessica simpson was huge she had this smashing hit of a reality show newlyweds then ashley simpson came along and she dyed her hair black she had her own show we really separated jessica and ashley i don't think ashley was famous because jessica was her sister yeah she had a leg up because of jessica she got the opportunities right the opportunity was handed to her because of her sister but at the same time we can think about ashley simpson and not think about jessica simpson when we think about hailey duff we think about hillary duff absolutely so it's but dash simpson like formula is very very unique and does not happen for really anyone elizabeth olsen's also a really good example i feel like she's been able to create a lot of success outside of her sisters because sisters have been out of the spotlight for like decades now same with um l fanning and dakota fanning that's actually a good example too right because Dakota.

58:24Hilary Duff:Yeah, Dakota was the child actor that was everywhere. And then Elle kind of just like popped up out of nowhere. And now she's nominated for an Oscar. You think about them totally independently. They're both so successful independently of each other.

58:37Haylie Duff:Agreed. And I also feel like— Nepo siblings. Yeah, yeah. I was going to say Dakota's kind of stepped out of the spotlight, but that's not true. I feel like they just have their own projects. She was just in

58:46Hilary Duff:All Her Fault.

58:47Haylie Duff:I was going to say, my favorite show.

58:49Hilary Duff:Your favorite show, yeah.

58:50Haylie Duff:That I genuinely, I was like, I don't know why this isn't being talked about more. Like that isn't any. And everyone was like, because it's really bad. I mean, it's fun to watch, but it's like not a good show. Literally, it says like that might have been my show of 2025. You're like, move over Mad Men. Succession, you got nothing on all her fault. Yeah, yeah. I love Succession. I want to rewatch that for the first time. Okay, I just want to like speak to some two blind items that I found about their beef. So this blind item is 2022. so this is well after you know uh a year and a half after hillary and matthew got married but this blind item states these two sisters have long had their fuse feuds one is much higher on the list and all of you know her the lesser known one knows her higher on the list sibling has slept with every guy the lesser known sister has ever dated for any length of time or has been interested in again take fine items with a grain of salt but that's scathing if this is true that hillary's sleeping with Haley's exes.

59:42Hilary Duff:Or like, yeah. Oh my God. That's gross too. It's sometimes I feel like it's about like knowing you can, you know, it's like, well, know your place. Like I can get any guy I want and you are the lesser sibling. Not saying that this is automatically true just because it was on crazy days and nights, but if it were true,

1:00:00Haylie Duff:it's, it's really dark sided. And it's like Corny Kardashian, Kendall Jenner, Justin Bieber. Oh my God. Gross. Okay. This was actually recently published as Blind Eye. I'm in July 2025. It says, the name flying around Broadway circles right now is randomly the sibling of a former Disney singer. She has been eyed to return to Broadway. And remember, Haley did have her stint on Broadway in 2006 on Hairspray. She has been eyed to return to Broadway to play the understudy for the former singing television actress in the revival of The Board Game, and our former singing television actress is reportedly not happy about it.

1:00:33Haylie Duff:So that's basically saying that Haley Duff is an understudy for Lea Michele in the Broadway show Chess. Chess.

1:00:40Hilary Duff:Yeah, I've never heard of that. And that Lea Michele isn't happy about it. Why does Lea Michele care?

1:00:44Haylie Duff:I think it's Hillary Duff is not happy about it.

1:00:46Hilary Duff:But it says to play the understudy for the former singing television actress. And our former singing television actress is not happy about it. So it uses the same. Yeah.

1:00:56Haylie Duff:Well, Lea Michele fucking sucks. Like I can't stand her. Yeah. So she's probably just annoyed at anyone who's her understudy because she thinks she's automatically better than them. I can't stand Lea Michele. Okay. So I just want to call out a couple things because i do feel like hillary has this like like glowing aura about her that people think she can do no wrong like you said at the top of the episode she's the good girl she can do no wrong when the hillary and lindsey feud came out everyone was team hillary because she's a nice girl hillary's i mean lindsey's mean but i want to call it a couple of like low-stakes scandals that hillary's been a part of so lizzie mcguire meant a lot to me and i remember that lalane who played miranda on the show was not on the movie and she kind of got like ousted out of the show towards the end.

1:01:35Haylie Duff:She wasn't in the movie? Nope. She was in Mexico City visiting her family.

1:01:39Hilary Duff:I don't know why I remember her being in the movie. That's so weird. That's like the Mandela effect.

1:01:44Haylie Duff:Yes. So there have been rumors that I've read for years that Hillary and Lelaine, they were young, right? You have like beef when you're like 12 years old. Yeah. They didn't get along. They had this like competition of like who's more famous. And Hillary Duff's mom basically made it such that Lelaine would be kicked off set and that's why she was not on a lizzie mcguire movie wow so again hillary was like 11 it's like little you know playground drama yeah but there is something to be said about lelaine not she didn't have work after that um maybe whether that was due to her own like uh decision making or something but something was there with lelaine and hillary that made her not on the movie uh hillary has had some scandals that went largely on a dress because of a good image or the time period there was a cultural appropriation moment where she dressed as like pilgrims and indians which i feel like again we now know in the lens of 2026 is problematic back then we wouldn't have known that so that one i kind of give her a little bit more of a pass just based on like cultural understanding and lack of wokeness back then um hillary dating joel madden which we talk about a lot but was never talked about back then she was 16 he was in his 20s I think that's also a little bit of a side eye from the part of Hillary's mom.

1:02:55Haylie Duff:If you have a 16-year-old daughter who's dating a 25-year-old, that's not okay.

1:02:59Hilary Duff:Yeah, that's really disgusting. Not, like, on her part. On his part, it is. And, like, the mom. Yes, yes. If she knew about this relationship, which presumably she did. But, like, Joel Madden, that's fucking creepy. And I can't believe that, like, we just let him get away with it. Like, that's disgusting.

1:03:16Haylie Duff:Now he's married to Nicole Richie. And Nicole and Hillary are often seen out and about. They have like a good relationship now. Like they'll double date. But I do think it's really gross.

1:03:25Hilary Duff:I remember also because Hillary, I feel like this was during like the 2000s, say like 2007, when I feel like Nicole Richie, Rachel Zoe, Hillary Duff were all so thin. And on all of the magazine covers strutting around Chateau Marmont. Yes. That was such a time. And we talk about how, you know, the Ozempic usage of today is reminiscent of the early 2000s. And obviously, like, the 90s with Heroin Cheek. But it reminds me of when we were growing up with these magazines. Yes. Oh, my God.

1:03:57Haylie Duff:Yes. A hundred. A hundred percent. I can remember, like, the Lindsay Lohan red dress and her Nicole Brachy strutting into, like, Chateau Marmont on the cover. Yeah.

1:04:05Hilary Duff:We just, like, can't think of any other, like, place where, like, Chateau Marmont. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:04:10Haylie Duff:Also, in her Dignity music video, there was definitely cultural appropriation there as well. But also low-key, like so many people did this as well. Selena Gomez did it in her Come and Get It song. If you scroll to the bottom, she's like cosplaying as like a belly dancer, Hilary Duff is. And she has like Indian jewels on her forehead. Selena Gomez has done this too. Again, this was a different time. I don't think she would do this today, but it just shows you how like unaware we were as a society back then. one other thing i wanted to call out that i think is a little bit shady when it comes to her on hayley duff in the song we don't talk she writes emotional eviction no more sentimental overlap and if it's because you're jealous god knows i would sell it all then break you off the bigger half and everyone on reddit and tiktok were like jealous that's so shady hillary like why would you now you're like accusing her of being jealous that's not the adjective i would use wait so she's referring to hayley here yes and if it's because you're jealous god knows i would sell it all and break you off the bigger half.

1:05:09Hilary Duff:That's how it goes. Oh, I mean, she calls it like she sees it, I guess. Katie Maloney. I call it like I see it. Like, she calls it like she sees it, apparently.

1:05:20Haylie Duff:I mean, it's kind of mean, though, that that adjective. Yeah. It's because you're jealous. Sorry that everyone likes me. And people were posing like Gretchen Wieners. I can't help with that unpopular.

1:05:28Hilary Duff:Yeah. I mean, but she can't. She literally can't. And I also think with like the mom group drama because I feel like this, like you said, has put their relationship or lack thereof back in the spotlight recently where Ashley Tisdale was like, I was part of a mom group, but they were toxic. So I left and everyone's like, you're five years old. Yeah. And it just made Ashley Tisdale look really bad. And everyone knew the mom group that she was referring to included Hilary Duff. So the fact that Haley Duff was hanging out with Ashley Tisdale after that is also shady.

1:05:59Haylie Duff:A hundred percent.

1:06:00Hilary Duff:Yeah. A hundred percent. I think that is far more shady than this

1:06:02Haylie Duff:lyric.

1:06:03Hilary Duff:Oh, 100%. And do you, so you don't think that political differences, because again, this is kind of like a longstanding rumor that Haley was maybe more conservative, Hillary's more progressive. You don't think that that played a factor here?

1:06:14Haylie Duff:I really don't. Because how many times do we have family members that have political differences from us? Like this is a tale as old as time, I feel like, especially younger people typically lean more left. And then our parents, our aunts and our uncles, they lean a little bit more right. Like I feel like that's a more common thing that you could probably reconcile amongst yourselves that wouldn't cause this much of a divide. And it's not to say, like, maybe it contributed, maybe it didn't help, but I genuinely do think that Matthew Coma is at the center of this. Matthew Coma was actually the driving force.

1:06:42Haylie Duff:Yeah, and the fact that in 2022, again, I can't remember if it was Matthew that didn't follow Haley or the other way around, but that also speaks to some.

1:06:48Hilary Duff:Well, also the fact that, I mean, we don't know the ins and outs of Hillary and Matthew's relationship, obviously, but the fact that they were, like, off and on at the beginning, I could imagine Haley being like, that guy's toxic. You guys keep breaking up. He's not good for you. Yes. But it sounds like the divide happened after they were married. So not in 2017 when they got back together for the third time, but in 2020, their first year of marriage. Yes. So who knows? But it does sound like it's something related to Matthew Koba.

1:07:20Haylie Duff:And you know what's interesting, too, is that if Hillary is estranged from both her sister and her father, I was on Haley's Instagram. And as recent as like this past Christmas, she was posting with both of her parents in this photo with her kids. And obviously Hillary wasn't there. But it makes me think that Hillary's relationship right now in terms of immediate family is with her mom only. Like I don't think she's good with her dad because I don't think she would go so far as to say in this lyric like questioning whether her father loves her and that my father would really love me. I wish I could sleep on planes and that my father would really love me.

1:07:53Haylie Duff:Like that's a pretty scathing lyric to say if you and your father are okay in this moment.

1:07:57Hilary Duff:Right. But Haley seems to be okay with them. Yes. Yes. Ay, ay, ay. Well, this was very illuminating. I feel like I learned a lot. So thank you for walking us through this.

1:08:09Haylie Duff:Yeah. Yeah. I think that Hillary is definitely having a renaissance. She's tried to kind of recreate her success back in like 2003, 2004 with Metamorphosis and like her being Lizzie McGuire. But I do think this, the execution of her renaissance period has been absolutely flawless. I think she's been absolutely killing it. She did such a good job on tour. And having just seen Ashley Simpson in that same exact venue last year and then seeing Hillary. Hillary's production was just incredible. Her wardrobe was stunning. Her makeup looked so good. Like everything about her, she is doing everything so right.

1:08:41Haylie Duff:And I'd imagine that this second wind of her career and her success probably isn't going to help the family divide. And I think especially her calling it out on these lyrics, I actually see this maybe deepening the wound more than helping it. That's unfortunate.

1:08:57Hilary Duff:It's like you shouldn't have to choose between career success and family. You should ideally be able to have it all. I know. And now she has her own family. She has four kids. Yeah, she has her own family.

1:09:08Haylie Duff:So she can focus on that. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Thank you. We shifted the schedule a bit around because we knew we wanted to cover this while it's, you know, really topical right now. But next week, we will be talking about a man. Bravo, man.

1:09:26Hilary Duff:Yes. Another Bravo, Leopardy. Yeah. That we all know and not necessarily love, but that we've been watching for a long time. Yeah. Yeah.

1:09:34Haylie Duff:So, yeah. Follow us at SnarkbaitPod. I'm at KristinaWell underscore underscore. or Sylvie's at Soph underscore Ross, patreon.com slash snarkbaitpod, youtube.com slash at snarkbaitpod, substack.com slash snarkbaitpod. Our live show tickets are all in our bio.

1:09:50Hilary Duff:Yep. In the show notes, sign up for our weekly newsletter that goes out every Friday. Our live show tickets, again, in the show notes. Hope to see you guys there. Yeah. Leave us a five-star rating and a review if you enjoyed this episode and we will see you next time. Thanks for being here, guys. Bye. Bye.

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